Guys like Henrik Sedin, Joe Thornton, Marc Savard in todays NHL.
They post great numbers but are always picked on, I think these guys deserve more respect. They make other players better around them, and while they are not scoring the goals they are setting some up in very impressive fashion sometimes.
Is it because they dont play the body, which I think brings them down as they are not overly physical.
Guys like Adam Oates, Ron Francis were also putting up pretty good numbers in their primes but I think they were looked over.
I was wondering if you guys could tell me other playmakers from the past, not Gretzky/Lemieux, up and coming playmakers, and why you think they are undervalued or valued just right in todays NHL.
I think it's just because there have been so many good playmakers over the history of the NHL and because they don't score the goals, less glory. There have been/are more good playmakers than good/elite goal scorers.
I think it's just because there have been so many good playmakers over the history of the NHL and because they don't score the goals, less glory. There have been/are more good playmakers than good/elite goal scorers.
considering there have been only 3 players in the history of the nhl to score 90+ assists in back to back seasons. tells me there is less elite playmakers then pure goal scorers.
are elite two-way forwards like Kesler, Datsyuk, and Richards undervalued?
are elite prospects like Hodgson, Tavares, and Hedman undervalued?
are elite shutdown dmen like Mitchell, Regehr, and Pronger undervalued?
are elite goalscorers like Demitra, Heatley, and Ovechkin undervalued?
Agreed but someone has to get them the puck. Every Bossy needs a Trottier...right?
Generally it seems like goalscorers can do better with worse linemates because they can do more on their own whereas playmakers, no matter how good they are cannot get an assist on their own. I mean even if they lay a goal on a platter a poor player can still miss.
Generally it seems like goalscorers can do better with worse linemates because they can do more on their own whereas playmakers, no matter how good they are cannot get an assist on their own.
it is why there are only a handful of truely elite playmakers in the world, every one can pass thats a given. but not every one can make a pass, that is so simple to put into the back of the net, that any body who can carry a stick can put it in the net.
in my opinion the playmakers of the league are.
tier 1- thornton and crosby
tier 2-spezza, savard, malkin, datzyuk,
tier 3- the rest.
it is why there are only a handful of truely elite playmakers in the world, every one can pass thats a given. but not every one can make a pass, that is so simple to put into the back of the net, that any body who can carry a stick can put it in the net.
in my opinion the playmakers of the league are.
tier 1- thornton and crosby
tier 2-spezza, savard, malkin, datzyuk,
tier 3- the rest.
You say that but there are literally dozens of empty nets missed each year and you get loads of people saying "my grandma could've scored on that chance."
Generally it seems like goalscorers can do better with worse linemates because they can do more on their own whereas playmakers, no matter how good they are cannot get an assist on their own. I mean even if they lay a goal on a platter a poor player can still miss.
I don't think this applies to elite playmakers who can make anyone they line up with 30 goal scorers.
are elite two-way forwards like Kesler, Datsyuk, and Richards undervalued?
are elite prospects like Hodgson, Tavares, and Hedman undervalued?
are elite shutdown dmen like Mitchell, Regehr, and Pronger undervalued?
are elite goalscorers like Demitra, Heatley, and Ovechkin undervalued?
I hate the Canucks I am a Bruins fan living in Vancouver.
The reason the elite playmakers are generally picked on are because if their teammates don't carry their load, there's little the playmakers can do. They make their teammates better, but not themselves.
And the reason for this is, the elite playmakers in this league are generally too one dimensional. Too much Joe Thornton and too little Peter Forsberg, who became a physical terror/ selfish goal scorer if his team needed him to be. Not to mention the playmakers are usually not regarded as solid two way centers. One trick ponies where their trick is to feed goal scorers next to them - which fails - don't look good.
Are playmakers undervalued? It depends. If they are one dimensional with high salaries, while you need them to carry the team when the tough gets going, they are overrated. If they are complementary players with lower pay (example: Michael Nylander centering Jaromir Jagr) or are more complete players that are always useful no matter what, then they are good players to have on a team.
So no, I wouldn't have pure high paid playmakers (paid to be franchise players) on my team if I want to win the cup, because they generally fail to carry the team when the team needs them.
Where do you see the OP doing that? The player he lists is a consistent top 5 to 10 in the league and is 4th overall in assists in past three years combined on a team that (Canuck fans will flame me for this) isn't exactly offense first.
All those players on the list are elite first-line playmakers.
Generally it seems like goalscorers can do better with worse linemates because they can do more on their own whereas playmakers, no matter how good they are cannot get an assist on their own. I mean even if they lay a goal on a platter a poor player can still miss.
I'd be inclined to believe it's the opposite, actually. Barring rare cases (such as Ovechkin), typically pure goal scorers need that setup man to be effective. Perfect example? Dany Heatley. Heatley's invisible when Spezza/Alfredsson are slumping. But when Spezza's feeding him those crisp passes for one-timers, Heatley's deadly.
I'd be inclined to believe it's the opposite, actually. Barring rare cases (such as Ovechkin), typically pure goal scorers need that setup man to be effective. Perfect example? Dany Heatley. Heatley's invisible when Spezza/Alfredsson are slumping. But when Spezza's feeding him those crisp passes for one-timers, Heatley's deadly.
Yes, but look at what Heatley did in his 2nd season in ATL. 41 goals, no setup man. But I think playmakers and goal scorers should be of equal value because they compliment each other, since the pass needs to be made for a goal and the shot needs to get in the net for there to be an assist.
Where do you see the OP doing that? The player he lists is a consistent top 5 to 10 in the league and is 4th overall in assists in past three years combined on a team that (Canuck fans will flame me for this) isn't exactly offense first.
All those players on the list are elite first-line playmakers.
Thank you, but each of those players are made fun of so so so much.
The sardine sisters, alien heads.
Savard (Me first, cant play defense, not invited to team Canada)
Thornton (Can't come through in the playoffs, Big Joe a No show)
Even though they are very very good, I think they are preyed upon by many a fan!
I'd be inclined to believe it's the opposite, actually. Barring rare cases (such as Ovechkin), typically pure goal scorers need that setup man to be effective. Perfect example? Dany Heatley. Heatley's invisible when Spezza/Alfredsson are slumping. But when Spezza's feeding him those crisp passes for one-timers, Heatley's deadly.
That is true about Heatley but he had good numbers in Atlanta. However, he certainly isn't one of the more dynamic goal scorers out there. When i was typing that i was thinking of guys like Gaborik, Hossa, Nash, Kovalchuk, guys who are able to put up big numbers without necessarily having good line mates. I just personally feel that the list of goal scorers who can generate their own offense is bigger than the list of playmakers who can do the same.
Guys like Henrik Sedin, Joe Thornton, Marc Savard in todays NHL.
They post great numbers but are always picked on, I think these guys deserve more respect. They make other players better around them, and while they are not scoring the goals they are setting some up in very impressive fashion sometimes.
Is it because they dont play the body, which I think brings them down as they are not overly physical.
Guys like Adam Oates, Ron Francis were also putting up pretty good numbers in their primes but I think they were looked over.
I was wondering if you guys could tell me other playmakers from the past, not Gretzky/Lemieux, up and coming playmakers, and why you think they are undervalued or valued just right in todays NHL.
i would like to have Savard......... but it's to expensive to get him.
Anyways, i don't think they are undervalued. Just try to trade for one of them
