Very close. Lower bowl attendance increasing, supporting reports that STH are starting to come back. Anxious to see what Saturday's game with Philly will be.
But both teams have also struggled to draw in notable stretches throughout the past 20-30 or so years.
Vancouver was never in danger of leaving or close to bankrupt and it was when our dollar was was only worth half USD the issues were bad , teams in Canada could not get the top UFAs could not afford them and GB let that go and threw some coins at us literally , there was a lot more to the story and as i said Vancouver was never in danger , Oilers yes but fans there did what they needed and kept their team .
I only remember a few yrs in Vancouver where fan support went soft and some of that was fans mad at GB when our dollar issue was well known and we were told too bad , i guess if we were Pho it would have been different.
Vancouver was never in danger of leaving or close to bankrupt
I guess you didn't have an owner who tried to get in bed with a lying two-faced egomaniac who's comfortable burning every bridge needed to get what he wants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbud
and it was when our dollar was was only worth half USD the issues were bad
Good thing that situation isn't currently going on in the US or else I guess one might understand the situation in Arizona - oh? wait a second let me check the value of the US dollar
I guess you didn't have an owner who tried to get in bed with a lying two-faced egomaniac who's comfortable burning every bridge needed to get what he wants.
Good thing that situation isn't currently going on in the US or else I guess one might understand the situation in Arizona - oh? wait a second let me check the value of the US dollar
it bears repeating.....ignorance is bliss
Oh enough of the woe is me stuff i was simply stating the issue regarding Vancouver leaving was not ever an issue , we had an owner bleed hundreds of millions he stayed and sold but one canadian dollar then bought 54 US pennies you let you dollar go that low and tell me what happens ?
Blame Bettman for Moyes he let him in and the situation in Arizona mirrors that of half the world in this economy it is struggling but far from a 3rd world country and i am not one bit ignorant of any of that choose you insults more carefully.
As an Arizona native myself, it's a bit shocking to find out I'm a bigger hockey fan than seemingly 50% of those who claim territorial rights to the sport, but don't seem that hard up about seeing hockey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobiezeke
You are using the same narrow view/short sighted opinion of Canadians that you have spewed about regarding the Canadian media's viewpoint of the Coyotes fanbase. You clearly know nothing about the "hard up" Canadian fan that doesn't live in a city however will travel hundreds and thousands of miles to see their favorite team play. Have you ever boarded a plane for Toronto to watch the Coyotes play there?
Don't paint the Canadian fanbase with one big brush...unless you are willing to be lumped in with the rest of the "deadbeat Coyote" fans in Phoenix.
No, I know about the hard-up Canadian hockey fans, I just didn't know there were so many who practically take it for granted.
The only paint I ever colored the Canadian fanbase with was the 'They all love hockey' colored paint. All I said was that I was seemingly (which indicates it's my opinion) a bigger hockey fan than 50% (not 100%) of Canadian hockey fans.
I never have boarded a plane to fly and watch the Coyotes play in Toronto. I did however fly to Seattle one year, and drove 3 hours to Vancouver just to be in a city that had playoff hockey happening (The Coyotes didn't make the playoffs). I was 99% certain I wouldn't be able to get a ticket, and I didn't, but I was just happy to be in a city with the energy of Playoff hockey.
It was the year the Canucks beat the Blues in the first round (probably about 6-7 years ago). I met a couple of real nice Canadians at the bar down the street from GM place (I think it was a sports bar that had Karaoke rooms you could rent out or something - strange combo). They invited me to sit with them after I started yelling derogatory comments at Pronger on the TV screen.
By the way, those aren't deadbeat Coyote fans in Arizona, they are deadbeat sports fans. They'll drop any sport which isn't having success and follow those that are. Probably because most of them aren't from Arizona.
Good thing that situation isn't currently going on in the US or else I guess one might understand the situation in Arizona - oh? wait a second let me check the value of the US dollar
it bears repeating.....ignorance is bliss
The value of the US dollar has no bearing on US-based teams' finances. They earn revenue in the US$ and pay players in the US$.
Canadian teams are completely at the mercy of the fluctuation in value between the two currencies, since they earn revenues in the CA$ but pay players in the US$. As you may know, player expense is the single largest expense item for teams.
The value of the US dollar has no bearing on US-based teams' finances. They earn revenue in the US$ and pay players in the US$.
Canadian teams are completely at the mercy of the fluctuation in value between the two currencies, since they earn revenues in the CA$ but pay players in the US$. As you may know, player expense is the single largest expense item for teams.
Thanks Fugu i was a little put off with being called ignorant about this im not sure he understood what happened then at all.
Gary Bettman was in Phoenix the other day, spinning a few tales about the impending sale of the Coyotes.
Well, impending may be stretching things a tad, as the NHL commissioner is now saying he expects the sale to be completed by the end of the hockey season. And local fans shouldn’t worry about that Dec. 31 deadline the league established to give priority to buyers who will keep the team in its suburban Glendale arena. As Bettman told the Arizona Republic, “I’m not concerned about Dec. 31 or Jan. 1.”
Besides, the commish said, he has six potential buyers on the line. But as anyone selling real estate knows, a potential buyer is anyone who stops in front of your For Sale sign.
A day in search of the elusive six produced little concrete information. There is one obvious suitor, Ice Edge Holdings LLC, a group of Canadian and U.S. businessmen that has declared its intention to pay $150-million (all currency U.S.) and keep the team in Glendale. After that, the field thins out quickly.
Considering those losses were while the team was still in the estate of Moyes, I'm not surprised at those losses. The Coyotes will still lose a lot of money in the short term but I doubt that that pace will continue as the season progresses under non-Moyes ownership and at least a competing team thus far.
The pace won't keep up mostly because the NHL won't pass ridiculous expenses onto the team like Moyes did.
This makes a lot more sense to me than anything Bettman has said concerning the Phoenix fiasco.
"Bettman already took a shot across the bow this week from Kevin Compton, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist and co-owner of the San Jose Sharks. Compton told the Sports Business Daily the whole Coyotes saga was “a joke” and the league needs Balsillie as an owner.
“Jim loves hockey,” Compton said. “Jim’s got a lot of money. Jim’s got a lot of passion.” Compton also said he is certain Balsillie will become an NHL owner some day. When it was pointed out the league is keeping Balsillie out, Compton shot back that “owners aren’t.”
Considering those losses were while the team was still in the estate of Moyes, I'm not surprised at those losses. The Coyotes will still lose a lot of money in the short term but I doubt that that pace will continue as the season progresses under non-Moyes ownership and at least a competing team thus far.
The pace won't keep up mostly because the NHL won't pass ridiculous expenses onto the team like Moyes did.
Did they ever get a TV deal? I can't see too many sources of income with $25 tickets and +/- 10,000 fans per game. With Payroll +rent + travel etc, I don't think 45mil in loses is out of the question.
Holy molly, end the team already. A single team like the Coyotes can prevent the salary cap from going up.Combine that with the likes of Nashville, Florida, Columbus now...
I find it interesting. People say attendance was so much better when the team first moved to Phoenix, etc. Well, below is the actual cumulative data for the entire history of the franchise in Phoenix.
Phoenix Coyotes' cumulative ticket data as per court documents for ALL seasons in Arizona (1996-2009):
Announced average gate (official NHL attendance averaged for all Coyotes' seasons): 14,824
Actual turnstile drop for all seasons (actual attendance for all Coyotes' seasons) : 12,068
Actual paid for ticket average attendance for all Coyotes' seasons in Arizona: 12,109
The above data was provided to the court this summer and is freely available. And the Coyotes have had one of the lowest ticket prices in the NHL through-out this period.
GHOST
I wanted to provide a link for this data in one of the court documents, and now I have it. It's here:
Ghost, I've examined the exhibit Moyes presented to the court in support of his BK filing, and I've attended every Coyotes game since the 2002-03 season. Tell me, how many "unobstructed" seats were available at AWA from 1996-2003, where the Coyotes played their home games? BTW, that's 8 of the 12 seasons they've played here through 2008-09, the first five of which I believe were playoff years.
The answer is ~12,000, just UNDER the 12,000+ you so gleefully point out as the "actual turnstile drop count" average over those 12 years. Look at the AWA attendance, notice the # of folks who sat in "obstructed" seats all those years. Then look at 2005 on when Moyes was the principal and the team moved to Glendale, how the team performed, and look at the drop count trend.
Trash the local fans all you want and point to us as the problem, but how about also admitting that maybe, just maybe, Moyes and his management, coupled with the abysmal on-ice performance of the team since 2001, was more responsible for the falloff in attendance than the fans.
Decided to humor you and looked at your additional "might want to consider" links. Again, are these not documents that Moyes filed with the court to convince it that hockey could never, ever survive in Phoenix and, because of that fact, it was imperative that the court must approve the sale and immediately move the team to Hamilton?
Need I remind you the court summarily rejected that claim? I know you long for a team in Hamilton, and I hope someday you get it. But enough with fighting this losing battle. Move on. We have in Phoenix.
If the team stays we're ecstatic. If it doesn't, because no one is interested in keeping the team here, then the Coyotes move. We get that! We accept that! Why can't you?
It's devolved into nothing but an attendance watch (who needs two of those threads anyway); and re-posting of pictures and links that have been presented about 50 times, or more, just in this forum.
If there is something new about the NHL sales process and the Glendale lease, those items can be posted with their own supporting link. Those of you who felt it necessary to drag this topic away from the business matters at hand have yourselves to thank for the shutdown.
