Could you be more specific? I think that all people but the members of the *****ing communist party had very bad conditions, but I dont know about any specific minority. I hope you dont mean Slovaks, cos that would be just laughable...
I believe it is quite clear from the second part of that sentence:"...yet alone Slovaks..." that I did not definitely mean us and I was actually refering to the fact that compared to the situation for Slovaks in the Austro-Hungarian empire the situation in Czechoslovakia was great. I was refering to minorities as in Hungarians and Rusyns etc. For example most of the Rusyns that lived in Eastern Slovakia were slovakized, because the official politics was that Rusyns and Ukrainians are one nation and many of them rather chose Slovak nationality over the Ukrainian one and today they are pretty much Slovaks, not all of them even speak Rusyn anymore.
As for the part that everyone except the members of the party had bad conditions that is kinda a tough issue to discuss. If we talk in the sense of freedom etc., that might be true, however if we talk about life conditions that is very not true. Except for missig toilette paper here and there and standing in rows for mandarines before each Christmas life for the general public was pretty normal for most of the time and for Slovaks for example it was a far better live than in the early 90´s when there were drastic preacuatiosn taken in Czechoslovakia or a bit later during the Mečiar era. I´m most definitely not pro-cmmunist or anything and I was only talking about general public- meaning those who shut their mouths up before the regime.
Yeah... Ray Bourque, Doug Harvey, Serge Savard, Denis Potvin, J-C Tremblay, Pierre Pilote, Guy Lapointe, Jacques Laperričre, Eric Desjardins...
I think he meant currently. Quebec, currently, has very few NHL d-men. The last HOFer drafted out of Quebec was Bourque in 1980 and the last star, Desjardins, in 1987. That's a really long dry spell.
I think he meant currently. Quebec, currently, has very few NHL d-men. The last HOFer drafted out of Quebec was Bourque in 1980 and the last star, Desjardins, in 1987. That's a really long dry spell.
i think that probably had something to do with the minor hockey system in quebec, and the development of players in the QMJHL, from the mid-80s to around the turn of the century. after desjardins' draft year (which also included yves racine, stephane quintal, and others), even NHL calibre defensemen out of quebec were few and far between: other than philippe boucher and brisebois, the best quebec had to offer were borderline NHLers like denis gauthier, dandenault, mathieu biron, yanick tremblay, MAB, it's depressing to even think about.
but, while there are no legit all-stars currently out of quebec, there are now some quality young guys, with vlasic, robidas, beauchemin, jason demers, alex picard. luc bourdon would have been another one. it's still out of proportion with the amount of great goalies and, to a lesser extent, the forwards that come out of quebec, but since 2000 there has been a lot more legit NHL defenseman than the previous generation.
Post WWII d-men from Quebec. Doug Harvey, Ray Bourque, Pierre Pilote, Jacques Laperriere, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, not too shabby.
... all born before 1960.
Amongst players born between 1960 and 1985, the only player from Quebec who developed into a top-10 (or probably even top-20) NHL defender is Eric Desjardins.
Post-Bourque, it has been a barren, barren landscape.
but, while there are no legit all-stars currently out of quebec, there are now some quality young guys, with vlasic, robidas, beauchemin, jason demers, alex picard. luc bourdon would have been another one. it's still out of proportion with the amount of great goalies and, to a lesser extent, the forwards that come out of quebec, but since 2000 there has been a lot more legit NHL defenseman than the previous generation.
Just listed a few post WWII because did not wish to list the likes of Sprague Cleghorn, Sylvio Mantha, Emile Bouchard, etc who started/ played before WWII.
Denis Potvin - Ottawa born, Luc Bourdon - New Brunswick.
Born after 1960 that were solid, playing upwards of 1,000 NHL games:
Normand Rochefort, Steve Duchesne, Sylvain Cote, Sylvain Lefenvre, Garry Galley, Bobby Dollas,
Best of the latest crop, probably Kris Letang.
Drop after Eric Desjardins coincided with the elimination of body-checking in minor hockey in Quebec into the Bantam level and the Guy Lafleur forward explosion. In Quebec minor hockey the coaches started playing the best skating kids(true that most of the kids insisted) at forward, usually center once Guy Lafleur became the role model. Similar to Maurice Richard / Jean Beliveau followed by the goalie swing with Patrick Roy.
Note: Perhaps the mods could spin this into a Quebec defensemen thread as the topic is interesting and should not hijack the Czech / Slovak discussion.
didn't realize robidas was that old. damn, he's older than i am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958
Note: Perhaps the mods could spin this into a Quebec defensemen thread as the topic is interesting and should not hijack the Czech / Slovak discussion.
yes, that would be good. sorry for the OT.
also, can58, was there another big change in quebec minor hockey that accounts for the influx of quality french d prospects (influx relatively speaking) in this decade?
didn't realize robidas was that old. damn, he's older than i am.
yes, that would be good. sorry for the OT.
also, can58, was there another big change in quebec minor hockey that accounts for the influx of quality french d prospects (influx relatively speaking) in this decade?
Quebec minor hockey coaching is more focused on defense. Some of the retired NHL d-men like Joel Bouchard, Bobby Dollas, Eric Desjardins, etc are coaching and making a difference.
Combination of the build from the goaltender out approach and adapting teaching to the no-contact rules. Also the Q expanding into the maritimes and the USA provided greater opportunity and visibility.
I believe it is quite clear from the second part of that sentence:"...yet alone Slovaks..." that I did not definitely mean us and I was actually refering to the fact that compared to the situation for Slovaks in the Austro-Hungarian empire the situation in Czechoslovakia was great. I was refering to minorities as in Hungarians and Rusyns etc. For example most of the Rusyns that lived in Eastern Slovakia were slovakized, because the official politics was that Rusyns and Ukrainians are one nation and many of them rather chose Slovak nationality over the Ukrainian one and today they are pretty much Slovaks, not all of them even speak Rusyn anymore.
As for the part that everyone except the members of the party had bad conditions that is kinda a tough issue to discuss. If we talk in the sense of freedom etc., that might be true, however if we talk about life conditions that is very not true. Except for missig toilette paper here and there and standing in rows for mandarines before each Christmas life for the general public was pretty normal for most of the time and for Slovaks for example it was a far better live than in the early 90´s when there were drastic preacuatiosn taken in Czechoslovakia or a bit later during the Mečiar era. I´m most definitely not pro-cmmunist or anything and I was only talking about general public- meaning those who shut their mouths up before the regime.
1)I thought so, but what you wrote sounds sound like just the opposite.
2)Dunno, the situation in the Czech republic has always been better than before '89. I can imagine you had a bit different situation under Meciar, Klaus had some issues but overall he was always much better than Meciar...
btw I really dont understand how can you Slovaks vote for populists like Meciar and Fico. You're probably too credulous... (No offense, it's half-joke. We're just the same - 50% of people will vote for communists (both red and orange) in next elections in Czech rep.... thats why I try to get away as soon as possible...)
1)I thought so, but what you wrote sounds sound like just the opposite.
2)Dunno, the situation in the Czech republic has always been better than before '89. I can imagine you had a bit different situation under Meciar, Klaus had some issues but overall he was always much better than Meciar...
btw I really dont understand how can you Slovaks vote for populists like Meciar and Fico. You're probably too credulous... (No offense, it's half-joke. We're just the same - 50% of people will vote for communists (both red and orange) in next elections in Czech rep.... thats why I try to get away as soon as possible...)
Actually, the situation over here was pretty bad even before Mečiar in the short era of the CSFR, I don´t wnat to use it as an excuse, but one for the main reasons of the Slovak nationalism of that era and why Mečiar actually was that popular was the fact that the change of the system was very drastic, heavy industry was destroyed in Slovakia and unempolyment rate went up by over 10% from 89 to 93 etc. As for the voting for populists, as I previously mentioned it usually commes after drastic precautions are made whether it was the Czecho-Slovak government right after 89´ or after 8 years of Dzurinda´s govenment. I personally don´t believe that the support of those idiots is so high, it just comes from the fact that their supporters are way more likely to go vote and it´s especially older people and those populists have their way how to persuade those. young people are so disappointed that they don´t care about politics almost at all as no one actually does aynthinf for them at all in the government- rather they usually make their life even harder, from my experience fico´s popularity amongst young people is often very close to non-existent.
Actually, the situation over here was pretty bad even before Mečiar in the short era of the CSFR, I don´t wnat to use it as an excuse, but one for the main reasons of the Slovak nationalism of that era and why Mečiar actually was that popular was the fact that the change of the system was very drastic, heavy industry was destroyed in Slovakia and unempolyment rate went up by over 10% from 89 to 93 etc. As for the voting for populists, as I previously mentioned it usually commes after drastic precautions are made whether it was the Czecho-Slovak government right after 89´ or after 8 years of Dzurinda´s govenment. I personally don´t believe that the support of those idiots is so high, it just comes from the fact that their supporters are way more likely to go vote and it´s especially older people and those populists have their way how to persuade those. young people are so disappointed that they don´t care about politics almost at all as no one actually does aynthinf for them at all in the government- rather they usually make their life even harder, from my experience fico´s popularity amongst young people is often very close to non-existent.
Thanks for info. We dont have such information on the TV, the only things we know are results of some polls and elections... Paroubek is the same ass as Fico, but the difference is, that young people spontaneously protest against him (eggs...). If we are able to persuade them to go vote, Paroubek will lose by a wide margin, but if not, I'd rather spend next for years at college in US.
Well, I understand that people are angry when big changes happen. I can understand that they disliked destruction of heavy industry (although it was the only way to go and if politicians were able to explain it, everything would be much better).
But I cannot understand how can they vote for socialists after Dzurinda. I'd be so happy if he came over to the Czech republic and took the lead of some liberal party and after the elections made the same reforms as in the Slovakia.
Thanks for info. We dont have such information on the TV, the only things we know are results of some polls and elections... Paroubek is the same ass as Fico, but the difference is, that young people spontaneously protest against him (eggs...). If we are able to persuade them to go vote, Paroubek will lose by a wide margin, but if not, I'd rather spend next for years at college in US.
Well, I understand that people are angry when big changes happen. I can understand that they disliked destruction of heavy industry (although it was the only way to go and if politicians were able to explain it, everything would be much better).
But I cannot understand how can they vote for socialists after Dzurinda. I'd be so happy if he came over to the Czech republic and took the lead of some liberal party and after the elections made the same reforms as in the Slovakia.
The thing is that people don´t want to hear explanations, they just want to have a job and there is very few of them to whom you could explain that this or that is not possible in a free economy etc.
As for Dzurinda, he is very much hated even by the Fico haters. I know how greatly all the years of the Tatra tiger the economy etc. is described in the foreing media, however it might have affected the economy, it did not make the conditions in which people live much better. If you add to that all the corruption scandals that the Dzurinda govenment has had it makes it even worse. Also, the opposition hasn´t done much of anything for the past three years, only criticizing Fico and to say at least something hockey related Siroky. The opposition voters have pretty much lost their belief into the "traditional" parties and are going over to the smaller or newly formed ones. For example some of the conservative supporters went over from SDKU to KDH I think mainly because Daniel Lipsic of KDH has been the most vocal from the whole opposition and Jan Figel, who is considered trustworthy became the new chiefs, the liberals who used to vote for SDKU because they had noone else to vote went to Richard Sulík´s new SaS and the Hungarians and Slovaks mostly from Southern Slovakia went from SMK to Bugár´s Most-Híd. A lot in the next elections and the next government depends on whether HZDS and SNS will make it to the parliament and how many of the smaller right wing parties make it there and whether there will be an agreement between all of these parties that they will not form a coalition together with SMER. Under some conditions it might be quite possible that Fico finds himself in a situation like Mečiar in 98´, winning the elections and not being able to form a coalition. However I fear this is unlikely and we´ll have to wait another 4 years.
The thing is that people don´t want to hear explanations, they just want to have a job and there is very few of them to whom you could explain that this or that is not possible in a free economy etc.
As for Dzurinda, he is very much hated even by the Fico haters. I know how greatly all the years of the Tatra tiger the economy etc. is described in the foreing media, however it might have affected the economy, it did not make the conditions in which people live much better. If you add to that all the corruption scandals that the Dzurinda govenment has had it makes it even worse. Also, the opposition hasn´t done much of anything for the past three years, only criticizing Fico and to say at least something hockey related Siroky. The opposition voters have pretty much lost their belief into the "traditional" parties and are going over to the smaller or newly formed ones. For example some of the conservative supporters went over from SDKU to KDH I think mainly because Daniel Lipsic of KDH has been the most vocal from the whole opposition and Jan Figel, who is considered trustworthy became the new chiefs, the liberals who used to vote for SDKU because they had noone else to vote went to Richard Sulík´s new SaS and the Hungarians and Slovaks mostly from Southern Slovakia went from SMK to Bugár´s Most-Híd. A lot in the next elections and the next government depends on whether HZDS and SNS will make it to the parliament and how many of the smaller right wing parties make it there and whether there will be an agreement between all of these parties that they will not form a coalition together with SMER. Under some conditions it might be quite possible that Fico finds himself in a situation like Mečiar in 98´, winning the elections and not being able to form a coalition. However I fear this is unlikely and we´ll have to wait another 4 years.
Didnt know about that. But I guess it was similar to Topolanek's government her - much better than CSSD, but still far beyond expectations. Too much corruption, frauds and scandals. Moreover Topolanek did all he could to make all media to dislike him. But you have one advantage - you actually started some economic reforms. Here they did nothing but flat tax (I agree with it, but there should be done much more.) because they had to make government with KDU-CSL and (that was the biggest problem) Green party. They didnt look bad in 2006 but soon they started to look very similar to any other green party - very much to the left...
btw isnt it funny? Czech and Slovak are talking in english about politics on NHL forum...
Didnt know about that. But I guess it was similar to Topolanek's government her - much better than CSSD, but still far beyond expectations. Too much corruption, frauds and scandals. Moreover Topolanek did all he could to make all media to dislike him. But you have one advantage - you actually started some economic reforms. Here they did nothing but flat tax (I agree with it, but there should be done much more.) because they had to make government with KDU-CSL and (that was the biggest problem) Green party. They didnt look bad in 2006 but soon they started to look very similar to any other green party - very much to the left...
btw isnt it funny? Czech and Slovak are talking in english about politics on NHL forum...
I think that is pretty much similar all over Eastern Europe and the worst thing is that people just : mávnu nad tým rukou
It´s funny, but it´s also interesting that noone has pointed out that we´re talking OT yet.
When I think of #1 Overall picks still playing, he's far from the first one that comes to mind for me... But looking at his career and comparing it to the rest of his draft class, he may be the best player to come out of the draft. Gonchar has obviously been a more prolific scorer (although not by an outrageous margin), and been better offensively (plus a Cup), but Hamrlik was a two-way workhorse for a long time, and as the GP leader from the draft class, could easily make the arguement.
Central Europe, o/c. I was writting homework in german about Czech republic, and the first sentence said "Die Tschechische republic ist eine kleine Staat in der Mittel-Europa..."
If they even konw that they exist. Just a few days ago, I was filling in some form on the internet and it asked where I come from - and right next to Czech republic there was Czechoslovakia...
Lol, it seems that you're having great fun right now. We'll "enjoy" something similar in May. I really cant wait to see it...
(No offense, it's half-joke. We're just the same - 50% of people will vote for communists (both red and orange) in next elections in Czech rep.... thats why I try to get away as soon as possible...)
