Now let's look at alltime NHL points.
Wayne Gretzky 2857
Mark Messier 1887
Gordie Howe 1850
That's almost 1000 more points than 2nd place.
If someone dominated any sport like that they'd get their Jersey retired.
Percentage-wise, those gaps are fairly similar. 51% vs. 45%
But unless you think Messier is the second-best player ever, total career points aren't necessarily the be-all. If Gordie Howe his whole career post-expansion (longer seasons, much higher scoring), he would likely have well over 2000 points. And then, there's many people who would consider Bobby Orr the greatest player of all time with his 915 points.
It's not like anyone would ever wear #99 even if it were available. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that a player would actually wear that number after what Gretzky did. It causes too much of a burden.
Very true. I doubt kids even wear #99 in house league or rep leagues for the same reason.
Jackie Robinsons number is retired in the MLB league wide because he was the player that broke the race barrier in baseball. I think that deserves the honor. Gretzky's number should not be retired league wide. He's the greatest player of all time, and the biggest name in the sports history, but I don't think he should have it retired league wide because of that.
And like many people said, I don't think many people would wear 99 anyways.
I remember my childhood days. Everyone wanted to wear 99 in the schoolyard hockey pitch. I miss those times.
I've always found the # retirement idea funny as a way of honouring a person. Since new kids aren't aware of the Gretzky phenom and no adult would dare wear the 99, it's almost a forgotten number stored away in history.
I think with the amount of people wearing Ovechkin & Crosby jerseys nationwide, or wear #8 or #87 in their bush leagues, does more to honour & immortalize a person than retiring it to eternal non-usage.
Just a thought so please don't take offense: Many people wear a number as a reminder of their inspiration, so why outlaw it? (in fact this is true for many NHLers themselves. Just ask Jonathan Toews).
Now let's look at alltime NHL points.
Wayne Gretzky 2857
Mark Messier 1887
Gordie Howe 1850
That's almost 1000 more points than 2nd place.
If someone dominated any sport like that they'd get their Jersey retired.
If you could do any math, you would know that the amount of goals by Shearer compared to #2 is almost exactly the same as Gretzky's point totals to Howe. "I'm sorry Mr. Torres, but you have to take a different number now, as Alan Shearer's #9 has been retired league-wide".
Besides football is not so much about scoring goals than hockey is, when comparing players.
Very true. I doubt kids even wear #99 in house league or rep leagues for the same reason.
What, just because the guy chose an unusual number should have no part in consideration of League-wide retirement. So if he had worn #9, should his number then not be retired League-wide?
That really does make for a good question, I think. What if Gretzky had worn a more common number, would we still be having this debate today?
On one hand I don't understand why teams like the Wild or Predators have to retire a number for a player who never was associated with them but on the other hand even if it wasn't retired league wide I doubt anybody would ever wear 99 for a very long time. Posted via Mobile Device
Actually, the Preds probably wouldn't exist if it weren't for 99 expanding the game.
Now let's look at alltime NHL points.
Wayne Gretzky 2857
Mark Messier 1887
Gordie Howe 1850
That's almost 1000 more points than 2nd place.
If someone dominated any sport like that they'd get their Jersey retired.
Another point: I was on this tiny island in Thailand, and a guy had a 99-Gretzky painted on the side. He was a local Thai fisherman. I actually gave him my Oiler's hat. You're never going to see something like that with any other NHLer.
This makes no sense. Goals are harder to come by in the Premier League than points in the NHL.
Andy Cole has 69% the goals of Andy Shearer. Messier has 66% the points of Gretzky.
100 goals in soccer is comparable to 1000 points in hockey.
EDIT: Beaten multiple times.
Personally I wish they hadn't retired it, I wanted to see the first dumbass that decided to wear it after Gretzky retired.
And some are still pointing to Gretzky's point totals... So what about Defensemen and Goalies... Have there been none who rank as high as Gretzky, in their respective zone on the ice?
Different leagues have different cultures though. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that there's a difference we should acknowledge.
While there is an argument that other players have dominated at a level close to Gretzky (#4 comes to mind), I think we're looking at achievements here and in that case, no one really does come close to #99.
EDITED: Its unfortunate, but the statistics and performance measurement are always biased towards forwards. Not to mention that fowards' marketability really increases this bias.
Almost certainly true, but that's not the point. It's the idea of the League putting Gretzky that much above any other player.It's not as if he was in a "league all of his own", there have been other players, and will be other players, that could at the very least almost equally be praised. And there is still ongoing argument about whether he even was the "greatest" of all time.
But, he is in a league of his own. That's the point. The aura around Gretzky is exponentially larger than that of any other player. There's never been another player like him in that his greatness has permeated all aspects of the game not just from an on-ice perspective, but especially because of his equally impressive off-ice presence.
Wayne Gretzky still gets a standing ovation all around the league.
yes, i know Gretzky was phenominal, but really league wide retirement of his number. for all players really. i dont see the need for a league wide retirement for a number, maybe individual teams that the players played for ( LA,Oilers in Gretzkys case) they should only reitre him for teams he played like a phenom on like LA and Edmonton. is Messier league retired?, is Orr?, is Mr. Hockey? 3 players who should be league retired if Gretzky is.
Excuse the sarcasm, but putting different spin on this... Gretzky got dirtied a bit in Phoenix, so this is the League cleaning him up and putting him back on a pedestal.
Theres ne reason to retire it league wide, every team is of course welcome to retire any number they so choose but having it mandated is kind of silly.
The further we get from Gretzky's retirement, there will be more hockey fans who never got to experience the Gretzky phenomenon live.
The number retirement decision made (and makes) perfect sense.
I disagree.
By having 99 retired by EVERY team, it cheapens what Gretzky did for the teams he played for. #99 should have been retired by only the Oilers, Kings and maybe NYR (were his numbers in NY good enough to warrant retiring 99?)
Why would the Blues want to retire #99 since he played there for only 30 games or so? Retiring 99 in StL is almost a slap in the face.
But like others have said, no young player would (should) have the guts to ask his team for #99 - I mean that would be so cocky, even top players today (AO, Crosby) would have a hard time living up to wearing "99."
It's like Jackie Robinson's #42 being retired by all of baseball - it's just kinda lame. He played for one team, and many players wore #42.
And for those that say retire #4 for Orr or 9 for Howe - it's obvious that many, many players over the years wore those numbers, so trying to retire them league-wide would be just silly. There was only one #99 (actually because of Howe's #9), and that's the way it should stay.
Before the league-wide retirement of #99, I'd imagine that teams would have a unwritten rule that no one wears #99. Making it "official" just doesn't seem right to me.
yes, i know Gretzky was phenominal, but really league wide retirement of his number. for all players really. i dont see the need for a league wide retirement for a number, maybe individual teams that the players played for ( LA,Oilers in Gretzkys case) they should only reitre him for teams he played like a phenom on like LA and Edmonton. is Messier league retired?, is Orr?, is Mr. Hockey? 3 players who should be league retired if Gretzky is.
Achievement-wise, accounting for time, Howe was a great candidate to have his numbers retired league wide. BUT there are several factors that affected it:
- Howe was not exactly the most loved guy - he was a terror on the ice (due to rough, dirty plays) and rather hated. It didn't help that he played in eras where the low amount of teams further fueled rivalry and hatred. Contrast with Gretzky, who was a much more likeable guy.
- He played for a long long time, was dominating even towards the end, but that made a lot of people forget exactly HOW dominant he was in his prime, even if his numbers were very good.
- His single season #s were less gaudy than Gretzky due to era (not saying he dominated less though).
- He probably made the NHL angry with the whole going to the WHA deal (although you can argue that there was a sufficient time gap between his initial retirement and his departure to the WHA to have retired his number)
- 9 is a more popular # than 99. More difficult to just ban people from using it again.
Not saying that it was fair, but this is why I think Gordie never got his # retired, even though he really deserved it.
By having 99 retired by EVERY team, it cheapens what Gretzky did for the teams he played for. #99 should have been retired by only the Oilers, Kings and maybe NYR (were his numbers in NY good enough to warrant retiring 99?)
Why would the Blues want to retire #99 since he played there for only 30 games or so? Retiring 99 in StL is almost a slap in the face.
But like others have said, no young player would (should) have the guts to ask his team for #99 - I mean that would be so cocky, even top players today (AO, Crosby) would have a hard time living up to wearing "99."
It's like Jackie Robinson's #42 being retired by all of baseball - it's just kinda lame. He played for one team, and many players wore #42.
And for those that say retire #4 for Orr or 9 for Howe - it's obvious that many, many players over the years wore those numbers, so trying to retire them league-wide would be just silly. There was only one #99 (actually because of Howe's #9), and that's the way it should stay.
Before the league-wide retirement of #99, I'd imagine that teams would have a unwritten rule that no one wears #99. Making it "official" just doesn't seem right to me.
The point that you and many others seem to be missing is that there is NOT a #99 hanging from the rafters of every arena. Teams are not required to have a Gretzky shrine, they just aren't allowed to use his number.
If you think that no one would wear his number anyways then obviously it doesnt matter whether or not it is official and you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
