It's easy to contradict everything someone says when you don't back it up with anything. It's really easy to make yourself look smart when you throw generic arguments around.
So is calling everyone morons.
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I guess only time will tell.
I guess but if the last fifteen years is any indication we could be waiting awhile.
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You can't be serious. One month of winning games and you expect the financial situation to just turn around?
According to some posters here, yes. What would you do to help the team? I see a lot of excuses but no one's really thinking of solutions.
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I'm curious. How would you define "a good hockey market"?
Not the desert?
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That's an excellent argument.
Your post was enough of an argument.
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Do you expect somebody to buy the team in this stage? The franchise is bankrupt. It would cost a fortune to buy them, and for that same buyer to keep the team in Phoenix? Nobody is going to buy it right now.
Bankrupt franchise, no fans, tonne of debt, high cost to buy, buyer has to keep the team in Phoenix, terrible lease agreement, history of poor attendance and product(for the most part), a tonne of competition when it comes to sports, no grassroots hockey operations, no future. Yeah that's a real good reason to keep the team where it is.
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"Yo momma's so fat..."
Again, excellent argument.
What was I arguing?
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Specifically, who has not gone through tough times at the gates?
Define tough time. Tough time as in not selling out every game, tough time as in averaging 12-13k fans or tough time as in what Phoenix is going through? Because that's a new one.
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You like to think you automatically know more than me because you live in Canada.
That's quite an accusation when you go and spew your following post.
Not to this degree and they all bounced back with record attendance after a few years. Do you expect the same for the Coyotes?
Okay so now they aren't "hurting on the ice" so when do you expect the fans to show up? Do you expect them to sell out any games the rest of the season? How about average more than 13,000(in seat) a game?
Or you know, it's just a bad market for hockey. It's not like they're getting 11,000-13,000 people in the seats that the teams that have struggled in the past have got. This is completely different.
And neither do you, sir.
And the deals in place, the lease in place, the paid attendance, the complete lack of support from the community, the fact no one wants to buy them(and keep them there) etc. etc.
I hope you're not a business expert because I'd have to ask for your professors resignation.
I don't think you know what that term means.
A large number.
It's hard to take your posts seriously when you don't answer anyone's questions, but instead just post Phoenix is a bad hockey market without backing it up. And what market are you championing again?
It's hard to take your posts seriously when you don't answer anyone's questions, but instead just post Phoenix is a bad hockey market without backing it up. And what market are you championing again?
You like to look at empty seats on TV and say "this isn't a hockey market". Meanwhile, many of your favorite teams have gone through the same issue.
The Coyotes aren't not selling because their market sucks. They play in the 5th most populated city in the United States. The Coyotes are hurting at the gates because they're hurting on the ice.
It's really not hard to figure out, but some of you choose to act all high and mighty and act like it has never happened to your team. A team is going to have a hard time getting people to come out if the team sucks.
Many of the people who say the team should be relocated to Hamilton or Quebec City don't have a clue what they're talking about. Those are the wannabe business experts who judge a franchise by the empty seats on TV.
Am I a business expert? No. I look at it logically.
What team hasn't gone through this?
The Habs.
Thats why Quebec City >>>>>>>>>>>>>. Phoenix
We can actually have 18,000 fans night in/night out, while Phoenix fans sunbath near the pool sipping on a Bacardi rum.
Last edited by Redwingsfan: 11-03-2009 at 03:42 PM.
At least its not this bad....pawn off the cheerleaders even because the fans would rather see them than any of the players!
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You like to look at empty seats on TV and say "this isn't a hockey market". Meanwhile, many of your favorite teams have gone through the same issue.
The Coyotes aren't not selling because their market sucks. They play in the 5th most populated city in the United States. The Coyotes are hurting at the gates because they're hurting on the ice.
It's really not hard to figure out, but some of you choose to act all high and mighty and act like it has never happened to your team. A team is going to have a hard time getting people to come out if the team sucks.
Many of the people who say the team should be relocated to Hamilton or Quebec City don't have a clue what they're talking about. Those are the wannabe business experts who judge a franchise by the empty seats on TV.
Am I a business expert? No. I look at it logically.
What team hasn't gone through this?
Then how long do you give it to work in phoenix.
Last edited by Redwingsfan: 11-03-2009 at 03:42 PM.
Since you've already decided this team is a failure and will continue to fail in the future, what's your agenda? Do you want the Saskatoon Coyotes or the Winnipeg Coyotes?
Since teams like the Canucks, Flames, Oilers are bad road draws, they cost the other teams millions in lost revenues. How should the League deal with their failures? If they don't find a way, will the League allow any more teams in Western Canada? I'm already pretty sure the League will not put a team in QC because of Detroit and Columbus.
You like to look at empty seats on TV and say "this isn't a hockey market". Meanwhile, many of your favorite teams have gone through the same issue.
The Coyotes aren't not selling because their market sucks. They play in the 5th most populated city in the United States. The Coyotes are hurting at the gates because they're hurting on the ice.
It's really not hard to figure out, but some of you choose to act all high and mighty and act like it has never happened to your team. A team is going to have a hard time getting people to come out if the team sucks.
Many of the people who say the team should be relocated to Hamilton or Quebec City don't have a clue what they're talking about. Those are the wannabe business experts who judge a franchise by the empty seats on TV.
Am I a business expert? No. I look at it logically.
What team hasn't gone through this?
Last I checked the Coyotes are 9-5 and are 5th in the West. That looks decent to me.
Last edited by Redwingsfan: 11-03-2009 at 03:43 PM.
Last I checked the Coyotes are 9-5 and are 5th in the West. That looks decent to me.
They were in the same position around the All Star break last year. We all know how that turned out. The team won't generate any excitement until they win a playoff round or two.
Since you've already decided this team is a failure and will continue to fail in the future, what's your agenda? Do you want the Saskatoon Coyotes or the Winnipeg Coyotes?
It would be great and would sellout every game no question but it will never happen in the forseeable future.
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Since teams like the Canucks, Flames, Oilers are bad road draws, they cost the other teams millions in lost revenues. How should the League deal with their failures? If they don't find a way, will the League allow any more teams in Western Canada? I'm already pretty sure the League will not put a team in QC because of Detroit and Columbus.
Bad road draws? I guess but they are also selling out 41 of their own games every year. You can't say the same for Phoenix in either right. Don't start talking about "lost revenues" when you're talking about the Coyotes either.
Since teams like the Canucks, Flames, Oilers are bad road draws, they cost the other teams millions in lost revenues. How should the League deal with their failures? If they don't find a way, will the League allow any more teams in Western Canada? I'm already pretty sure the League will not put a team in QC because of Detroit and Columbus.
How is that the Canucks, Flames and Oilers fault?
Back in the '80s the Oilers were the biggest road out of ALL the NHL teams. What do you say to that?
It is. You were making a point that their fans don't show up even when they're doing good. I said Canucks fans didn't at one time also.
Toronto and Montreal are the only fanbases that will be there every year regardless. No other hockey city will follow a loser, not in the US and not in Canada. It's not just Vancouver I think that, I'm a Wings fan and I'll be the first to say The Joe would have about 8k a game if they lost all the time or were threatening to relocate. It would be stupid to buy season tickets if your team might not even be there, why bother?
It would be great and would sellout every game no question but it will never happen in the forseeable future.
"No question"? Here's at least one - if Winnipeg didn't sell out when they had the Jets the last time, why are you essentially guaranteeing that they "would sellout every game" this time around?
Interesting biases you seem to have.
__________________
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"No question"? Here's at least one - if Winnipeg didn't sell out when they had the Jets the last time, why are you essentially guaranteeing that they "would sellout every game" this time around?
Interesting biases you seem to have.
Because you never realize what you have until it's gone. Look at Minnesota. It's a completely different atmosphere in Canada when it comes to hockey than in the early-mid 90's. How can you not see that?
Because you never realize what you have until it's gone. Look at Minnesota. It's a completely different atmosphere in Canada when it comes to hockey than in the early-mid 90's. How can you not see that?
Sorry - "How can you not see that?" doesn't translate to "guaranteed night-after-night sellout" to me. I can see why you'd like us to believe that it would, though.
Sorry - "How can you not see that?" doesn't translate to "guaranteed night-after-night sellout" to me. I can see why you'd like us to believe that it would, though.
[MOD:edit]
Why are you so defensive about a failing franchise? It's dragging the league down. I'd love if every team sold out every game and no one had to move anywhere. Hell, don't even move them just disperse the team. It's such a drain on the league it's unbelievable. I don't care where you move them just get them out!
My questions from earlier still haven't been answered. How long do you give the Coyotes to turn it around? What is a reasonable amount of time for them to rebound before you wash your hands of the mess?
Last edited by Kristia28: 11-04-2009 at 08:33 AM.
Reason: removed unneeded comment
Edmonton does good and the only reason I didn't list them this time is because the last time i made this point I added Edmonton along with Tor and Mon and then people pointed to Edmonton's few years in the 90's with low attendance so I didn't want to get into that all over again is all.
I guess but if the last fifteen years is any indication we could be waiting awhile.
They've done their best to stay competitive. Like I said, they lack that franchise savior.
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According to some posters here, yes. What would you do to help the team? I see a lot of excuses but no one's really thinking of solutions.
It's not my job to think of a solution. All I'm saying is that one month of winning games is not going to have people kicking down the doors.
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Not the desert?
It's the 5th most populated city in the United States. Could you come up with something more concrete than "not the desert"?
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Bankrupt franchise, no fans, tonne of debt, high cost to buy, buyer has to keep the team in Phoenix, terrible lease agreement, history of poor attendance and product(for the most part), a tonne of competition when it comes to sports, no grassroots hockey operations, no future. Yeah that's a real good reason to keep the team where it is.
They sold out opening night. If you don't think there are fans then that's ignorant. They're just sick of paying money to see a poor product.
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What was I arguing?
Absolutely nothing, which is why I picked on it.
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Define tough time. Tough time as in not selling out every game, tough time as in averaging 12-13k fans or tough time as in what Phoenix is going through? Because that's a new one.
For argument's sake, let's say a tough time is drawing 13k or less consistently.
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Let's not jump to wild, baseless conclusions now.
It's quite obvious.
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Originally Posted by habsfans333
The Habs.
That's one team.
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan
Then how long do you give it to work in phoenix.
I don't have an answer to that, to be honest.
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Originally Posted by Canucks5551
Last I checked the Coyotes are 9-5 and are 5th in the West. That looks decent to me.
Do you too think that one month of winning games is going to turn this situation around?
They've done their best to stay competitive. Like I said, they lack that franchise savior.
So give them a Crosby and it will all be over?
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It's not my job to think of a solution. All I'm saying is that one month of winning games is not going to have people kicking down the doors.
No but it should draw more than 7,000~ fans on a given night.
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It's the 5th most populated city in the United States. Could you come up with something more concrete than "not the desert"?
So why can't the 5th most populated city draw more than we get at CHL games in cities 1000x smaller? Wait we've answered that hundreds of times. Just seems like a bad market to compete in.
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They sold out opening night. If you don't think there are fans then that's ignorant. They're just sick of paying money to see a poor product.
That was great and I hoped it continued. What happened the next game? About 1/4th~ the attendance. They don't have a poor product on ice anymore and I hope it helps.
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For argument's sake, let's say a tough time is drawing 13k or less consistently.
Well if that's a tough time, I don't have a word for what the Coyotes are going through. The Greatest Depression maybe?
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It's quite obvious.
No, it really isn't. Please quote at least one time I inferred it.
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I don't have an answer to that, to be honest.
No one does. No one wants to admit that they might be wrong.
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Do you too think that one month of winning games is going to turn this situation around?
What happened to all the "fans" from opening night then?
