I'm prepared to offer Cory Schneider (the goaltending prospect they desperately need), Taylor Pyatt (a big body and a cheap option for the 3rd line) and our 1st round pick this year (10th overall) for Carter.
Also Pyatt is not a UFA this year...neither is Trent Hunter (he was re-signed by the Islanders).
Thanks - I missed Hunter's signing. I wonder if NYI would take Krajicek in a trade?
I would sure love to hang onto our 2008 first rounder so that we keep the prospect pipeline primed.
I also don't think Pyatt, Schneider and a high first helps Philly enough in the short term. Philly needs a puck moving defenseman to move the puck up to their incredibly deep cast of forwards. I also think that realistically, we are not going to be able to move any of our defensemen with NTCs and we have to make some roster space for the young guys to have a meaningful competition. If I had to choose between Bieksa and Edler I would trade Bieksa.
But I think that the above roster is one that would compete in this division. I tried to stay away from signing guys over 30 and from giving up all of our organizational depth.
Thanks - I missed Hunter's signing. I wonder if NYI would take Krajicek in a trade?
Carefull, you might summon Darth Milbury . Generally when a team signs an upcoming UFA to a good value multi-year deal, they're not going to trade him.
I gotta agree with Pyatt though, even if he's already going to be back. A lot of people around here seem to bash him and want to get rid of him, and I just don't understand it. No he's not an ideal guy to be counted on as a scorer, but he's capable of pitching in on the offense, and can play the bottom six if there's room. Rather than focusing on bumping him out of the lineup for a more expensive/higher impact scoring forward, I think we'd be better off bumping guys like Ritchie, Cowan and Isbister out for more guys like Pyatt. In a cap NHL Teams with a deep forward roster are built on middle-low end top six guys like Pyatt.
Thanks - I missed Hunter's signing. I wonder if NYI would take Krajicek in a trade?
I would sure love to hang onto our 2008 first rounder so that we keep the prospect pipeline primed.
I also don't think Pyatt, Schneider and a high first helps Philly enough in the short term. Philly needs a puck moving defenseman to move the puck up to their incredibly deep cast of forwards. I also think that realistically, we are not going to be able to move any of our defensemen with NTCs and we have to make some roster space for the young guys to have a meaningful competition. If I had to choose between Bieksa and Edler I would trade Bieksa.
But I think that the above roster is one that would compete in this division. I tried to stay away from signing guys over 30 and from giving up all of our organizational depth.
Perhaps Schneider, Pyatt, Krajicek, 10th overall for Carter?
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Perhaps Schneider, Pyatt, Krajicek, 10th overall for Carter?
I'd do that, and in terms of value, it probably fits the bill. I just think Philly is going to need someone more high profile than either Pyatt or Krajicek to show to their home town fans next year in return for Carter. I think long term there is value in that trade for both sides. Also - Bieksa has a Flyers mentality.
Schneider is going to be a studd goalie. If Krajicek can ever learn to shoot the puck he is one of the smoothest skating defensemen around.
I still don't want to give up that draft pick though.
Perhaps Schneider, Pyatt, Krajicek, 10th overall for Carter?
Devil's Advocate Scenario...
Say the Flyers accept the deal... Yet say, after the strong playoff performance, the Flyers also decide that Carter along with Richards can form the nucleus of the franchise's future (Briere no longer is in the Flyers long term plans and are prepared to ship his $6.5 multi-year contract out for draft picks, if need be... Pyatt and Krajicek could, less expensively, replace current roster players... Umberger could be traded for a pick or prospect, Hatcher, Smith and the rest of the fat could be trimmed... If they believe that Carter has star or superstar potential, the Flyers could make his salary work with some out-of-the-box thinking and tinkering)... As a RFA, the Flyers then send Carter a $7.5 or $8 offer (which he accepts)... In this scenario, do the Canucks match the Flyers offer, or do they let Carter go?
Say the Flyers accept the deal... Yet say, after the strong playoff performance, the Flyers also decide that Carter along with Richards can form the nucleus of the franchise's future (Briere no longer is in the Flyers long term plans and are prepared to ship his $6.5 multi-year contract out for draft picks, if need be... Pyatt and Krajicek could, less expensively, replace current roster players... Umberger could be traded for a pick or prospect, Hatcher, Smith and the rest of the fat could be trimmed... If they believe that Carter has star or superstar potential, the Flyers could make his salary work with some out-of-the-box thinking and tinkering)... As a RFA, the Flyers then send Carter a $7.5 or $8 offer (which he accepts)... In this scenario, do the Canucks match the Flyers offer, or do they let Carter go?
I think if the Canucks traded for Carter prior to July 1, they would do so in conjunction with a frank conversation (with the Flyers permission) with his agent to get an understanding of what kind of number and term it would take to get him signed prior to July 1.
I also don't think anyone is going to offer Carter Sydney Crosby money. But if the Canucks were not able to sign him and someone was foolish enough to offer him that kind of money, I think the Canucks would take the 4 first round picks.
I think if the Canucks traded for Carter prior to July 1, they would do so in conjunction with a frank conversation (with the Flyers permission) with his agent to get an understanding of what kind of number and term it would take to get him signed prior to July 1.
I also don't think anyone is going to offer Carter Sydney Crosby money. But if the Canucks were not able to sign him and someone was foolish enough to offer him that kind of money, I think the Canucks would take the 4 first round picks.
If trading for Carter, it would need to be pretty much guaranteed that he'd sign with the Canucks... There are teams out there, and even some with the cap space readily available, looking for a player like Carter... $7.5 is pretty much Scott Gomez-type money... Crosby's cap hit is $8.7 - with a self-proclaimed "discount"...
If trading for Carter, it would need to be pretty much guaranteed that he'd sign with the Canucks... There are teams out there, and even some with the cap space readily available, looking for a player like Carter... $7.5 is pretty much Scott Gomez-type money... Crosby's cap hit is $8.7 - with a self-proclaimed "discount"...
Are you kidding?
If we traded Schneider, Pyatt, Krajicek, 10th overall for Carter and then lost him to a $7M offer sheet I would take the 4 first round draft picks and run. There are a very small handful of players in the league who are worth 4 first round draft picks. I like Jeff Carter a lot, be he is not one of them.
We would only be down Pyatt and Krajicek off of our current roster and would have 2 first round draft picks for each of the next 4 years! Say hello to John Tavares.
First round picks are currency. They can easily be traded for other assets.
If we traded Schneider, Pyatt, Krajicek, 10th overall for Carter and then lost him to a $7M offer sheet I would take the 4 first round draft picks and run. There are a very small handful of players in the league who are worth 4 first round draft picks. I like Jeff Carter a lot, be he is not one of them.
We would only be down Pyatt and Krajicek off of our current roster and would have 2 first round draft picks for each of the next 4 years! Say hello to John Tavares.
First round picks are currency. They can easily be traded for other assets.
Explain to Mr. Acqullini, who just fired a GM for not making the playoffs, how trading two serviceable roster players, our #1 prospect, and a top 10 pick this year, is going to get you closer to the cup next year than having future draft picks...
Say the Flyers accept the deal... Yet say, after the strong playoff performance, the Flyers also decide that Carter along with Richards can form the nucleus of the franchise's future (Briere no longer is in the Flyers long term plans and are prepared to ship his $6.5 multi-year contract out for draft picks, if need be... Pyatt and Krajicek could, less expensively, replace current roster players... Umberger could be traded for a pick or prospect, Hatcher, Smith and the rest of the fat could be trimmed... If they believe that Carter has star or superstar potential, the Flyers could make his salary work with some out-of-the-box thinking and tinkering)... As a RFA, the Flyers then send Carter a $7.5 or $8 offer (which he accepts)... In this scenario, do the Canucks match the Flyers offer, or do they let Carter go?
That's essentially trading Schneider, Krajicek, 1st round pick for 4 1st round picks...either way, I'd probably match, but I don't see a situation like that happening.
Danny Briere has a NMC...not a No-Trade Clause but a No-Movement Clause, meaning, he's stuck on that team unless he wishes to move. They can't even put him on waivers to just dump him.
Explain to Mr. Acqullini, who just fired a GM for not making the playoffs, how trading two serviceable roster players, our #1 prospect, and a top 10 pick this year, is going to get you closer to the cup next year than having future draft picks...
Plus, with the Canucks drafting history, can we really expect to pick up a player with Carter's potential in the draft?
Taylor Pyatt is a 3rd liner who can sub in to the top 6 if needed, but isn't a long-term solution for the top 6...and Krajicek seems to be the odd man out. He's expendable with our defense as it is. I'd go as far as saying that 2 of our defensemen are easily expendable.
Explain to Mr. Acqullini, who just fired a GM for not making the playoffs, how trading two serviceable roster players, our #1 prospect, and a top 10 pick this year, is going to get you closer to the cup next year than having future draft picks...
We are not losing that much. With our current depth on defense, Krajicek is somewhere between our 5th and 7th defenseman, depending on the development of Edler and Bourdon. Pyatt is basically a slower version of Pettinger.
So we take one of the 4 first round picks (2009) package it with our own 2009 pick and trade up to take John Tavares 1st over all. He is said to be a franchise impact player.
We take 2 of the remaining 3 extra picks (2010 and 2011), and maybe a prospect and trade them to Florida for Ollie Jokinen - currently an impact player.
So the net effect of the trade is:
Schneider;
Pyatt;
Krajicek;
2008 #10 over all;
2009 First Rounder;
for:
John Tavares (2009 1st overall)
Olli Jokinen
2012 first round pick
As far as the immediate impact on the roster, it is Pyatt and Krajicek for Jokinen; that's a steel. And we still have cap space to go after a mid-tier RW UFA.
Future impact is Schneider and 2 first round picks for a first overall and a 2012 first rounder.
We would obviously cross that bridge when we got to it, but If we could get Carter for Krajick,Pyatt, schneider and that first, we'd have to do the deal.
Only 2 goalies in the last 20 years have made it to the finals while playing more than 65 games in the regular season, Brodeur and Richter. Other than that, every other goalie who's played in the finals played 65 or less games.
Even Brodeur's limit seems to be 72-73 games. In his 4 finals appearances he's played the following number of games:
94-95: 40
99-00: 72
00-01: 73
02-03: 73
Every time he's played more than that (in 03-04, 06-07, and 07-08) he's fizzled out and looked tired in the playoffs.
Frankly I think these 75-80 game seasons we're seeing from goalies like Luongo, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, and Nabokov are really short sighted and they should be given more rest, even if they don't want it. If the Canucks had made it to the finals last season, Luongo would have ended up starting about 100 games, that's simply too much.
Brodeur's 4 worst playoff seasons by save percentage are bolded. Then his regular season stats. Numbers for this year arent up, but it seems like it will be one of the worst playoff seasons of his career. As he's aged the more regular season games he plays the worse he's been.
Luongo is still young I think he can play the games. If he's unable to handle 70+ games then perhaps he shouldnt be making the dollars he is. If he can only play 70 games then they definately need to pay for a better backup than they've had the past two years.
So we take one of the 4 first round picks (2009) package it with our own 2009 pick and trade up to take John Tavares 1st over all. He is said to be a franchise impact player.
We take 2 of the remaining 3 extra picks (2010 and 2011), and maybe a prospect and trade them to Florida for Ollie Jokinen - currently an impact player.
You can't seriously think it would be that easy... any two first rounders in a draft for the #1 overall? Better hop you have two top 10 picks.
Devil's Advocate Scenario...
If they believe that Carter has star or superstar potential, the Flyers could make his salary work with some out-of-the-box thinking and tinkering)... As a RFA, the Flyers then send Carter a $7.5 or $8 offer (which he accepts)... In this scenario, do the Canucks match the Flyers offer, or do they let Carter go?
So basically they're trading 4 first round picks for Pyatt, Schneider, Krajicek, and a 1st round pick as well as the privilege of paying Carter $7.5-$8 million a year? Why wouldn't they just keep their 1st round picks and sign Carter for something more reasonable themselves?
We are not losing that much. With our current depth on defense, Krajicek is somewhere between our 5th and 7th defenseman, depending on the development of Edler and Bourdon. Pyatt is basically a slower version of Pettinger.
So we take one of the 4 first round picks (2009) package it with our own 2009 pick and trade up to take John Tavares 1st over all. He is said to be a franchise impact player.
We take 2 of the remaining 3 extra picks (2010 and 2011), and maybe a prospect and trade them to Florida for Ollie Jokinen - currently an impact player.
So the net effect of the trade is:
Schneider;
Pyatt;
Krajicek;
2008 #10 over all;
2009 First Rounder;
for:
John Tavares (2009 1st overall)
Olli Jokinen
2012 first round pick
As far as the immediate impact on the roster, it is Pyatt and Krajicek for Jokinen; that's a steel. And we still have cap space to go after a mid-tier RW UFA.
Future impact is Schneider and 2 first round picks for a first overall and a 2012 first rounder.
Mr. Aquillini responds, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... You're fired!"
Bottom line for me... If you're trading for Carter, there needs to be assurance that he would sign for the salary and term prior to the deal being made... Otherwise, send an offer sheet for around $5.75 million (5 years) and cross fingers... The only "realistic" reason why the Flyers would consider not re-signing (and even entertain a trade for Carter) is because they feel he can't fit within their cap... So, IMO, squeeze the Flyers into getting compensated in future draft picks, and hold on to the assets in hand... Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable having Carter as a rfa (as a signed and sealed player, he'd be great)... It's not that I think that the Flyers would give him an offer sheet (despite my previous post suggesting it)... but look around the league... A team like Columbus has cap space, and may be salivating at the chance to have Carter as the long-term line mate to Nash... Hope for the best, but plan for the worst... IF you acquire Carter and he decides to still be in the rfa market, IMO, you have to be prepared to pay $7+... I don't think that you can get Carter for Krajick, Pyatt, schneider and the first (as you say, the Canucks really aren't losing much in terms of current players on the team)... But even if you could... There is no way, IMO, that you can turn these assets into future draft picks, and then convince Aquillini that the Canucks are a playoff team next year - or closer to a playoff team than they currently are today... My opinion is that Aquillini's response would be, "WTF?"
If a GM could turn 2 of the 3 extra picks (2010 and 2011) and a prospect into Ollie Jokinen (and being able to get Tavares)... I'd imagine that Aquillini's response would be, "Holy ****!"... But the chance of getting that done, IMO, is slim to none...
If you acquire Carter via a trade, IMO, you have to sign him - and hope that a GM isn't going to give him an offer similar to Gomez, or Vanek... Therefore, without an assurance that Carter will sign at a pre-determined dollar amount and term (and really, why would his agent agree to that when he can wait a couple months and explore what kind of offers come in... He doesn't have to sign any of the offers and can still sign with the Canucks after), you'd be better off to simply give Carter an offer sheet... and see what happens... That's my take on it anyways...
Last edited by I in the Eye: 04-21-2008 at 08:29 PM.
So basically they're trading 4 first round picks for Pyatt, Schneider, Krajicek, and a 1st round pick as well as the privilege of paying Carter $7.5-$8 million a year? Why wouldn't they just keep their 1st round picks and sign Carter for something more reasonable themselves?
The Flyers aren't going to do it for that deal... Who am I kidding, the Flyers aren't going to do it at all!... But for the sake of having a couple minutes... I've seen deals where the Canucks trade Edler, Schneider, and a 1st (10th) - something like that... For a deal like this, with the potential for a #1 dman, #1 goalie, and a high first (which should be higher than what the Flyers would receive over the next couple years), it might, maybe make sense... Meh, I'm not fooling anyone... It makes no sense at all
But for another team, however, to make an offer... I think that could happen...
. Generally when a team signs an upcoming UFA to a good value multi-year deal, they're not going to trade him. 
