So called "World Cup" beginning to suck

At the current dropoff rate, the likes of Brashear and Oliwa will soon be named as replacements. :lol

I wouldn't worry about Oliwa..

One thing that comes to mind as all of these drop outs are a t-i-t for t-a-t thing.

Agent calls player:
"GM is saying they aren't signing guys until they know what the new CBA will be."

Player:
"Well, I won't play in their World Cup until I know what my contract will be."

That is my impression, that all of these dropouts are a shot at an NHL sponsored event, and now it is being used as a bargaining chip.

One thing that comes to mind as all of these drop outs are a t-i-t for t-a-t thing.

Agent calls player:
"GM is saying they aren't signing guys until they know what the new CBA will be."

Player:
"Well, I won't play in their World Cup until I know what my contract will be."

That is my impression, that all of these dropouts are a shot at an NHL sponsored event, and now it is being used as a bargaining chip.
Good point and it is influencing some rosters.

Its sad you know that guys are doing this. We know no that Russia is going to be pretty bad in this tourny now. It appears to be more of a Canada/Sweden final now. Its funny cause in 1976 Bobby Orr didnt have a contract and he was injured. He basically played on one knee throughout the tourny. He answered the bell for his country why arent the likes or Fedorov or Khabibulin doing the same?

Its sad you know that guys are doing this. We know no that Russia is going to be pretty bad in this tourny now. It appears to be more of a Canada/Sweden final now. Its funny cause in 1976 Bobby Orr didnt have a contract and he was injured. He basically played on one knee throughout the tourny. He answered the bell for his country why arent the likes or Fedorov or Khabibulin doing the same?

because they arent slaves ? they dont have to if they dont want to.

dr

No players do not have to as the older they get the more family can enter into it, or they can just be incredibly ungrateful like Fedorov. The game has given him everything and playing in the World Cup should not be that difficult. I'll be pleased he's not there as hopefully the younger Russians will be hungry and eager to impress. Who will lead? That is the question. No matter there are six very solid countries still onboard and the German's have all hands on deck. Still will be a good show.

Its sad you know that guys are doing this. We know no that Russia is going to be pretty bad in this tourny now. It appears to be more of a Canada/Sweden final now. Its funny cause in 1976 Bobby Orr didnt have a contract and he was injured. He basically played on one knee throughout the tourny. He answered the bell for his country why arent the likes or Fedorov or Khabibulin doing the same?


Because this isn't 1976 and some players have other priorities.



People think players have some sort of obligation to play in the World Cup. If you were picked to be on the Russian team, and you saw the clusterfudge, chaos and mass hysteria their organization is, I sure as hell wouldn't want to play.

Why is it ungratful when Fedorov pulls out, but when Blake pulls out for the same reason, it isn't?


Anyway, once NHL players were allowed to play in the Olympics, the World Cup became a joke.

Why is it ungratful when Fedorov pulls out, but when Blake pulls out for the same reason, it isn't?


Are they pulling out for the same reason? I wasn't aware that Fedorov was injured...

Expand the tournament. Allow 16 teams. Sure you might have some blowouts but it would make great entertainment.

Are they pulling out for the same reason? I wasn't aware that Fedorov was injured...

``He's nursing a few minor injuries - nothing major but he's not 100 per cent,'' said Brisson. ``He skated in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago and he didn't feel quite ready.

``He's nursing a few minor injuries - nothing major but he's not 100 per cent,'' said Brisson. ``He skated in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago and he didn't feel quite ready.

yeah that's a bunch of ********

Why is it ungratful when Fedorov pulls out, but when Blake pulls out for the same reason, it isn't?


Anyway, once NHL players were allowed to play in the Olympics, the World Cup became a joke.


There's no way you can call this tournament a joke. with the exception of about 2-5 players per team on avg these teams are stacked with NHLers and talent with the exception of Germany (who may surprise a team or two).

There's no way this is a joke. How would you know anyways there hasn't been a world cup since the NHLers were allowed to play in the Olympics.

All I know is i'll be watching every game I can and cheering on Canada till they capture the gold. That won't be so much of a joke will it?

It *is* quickly becoming a joke. Players are dropping like flies, it's pretty much one or two a day right now. Every day I get up, and click on TSN to see who dropped out today.

This apathy is what killed the Canada Cup the first time.

[QUOTE=go kim johnsson]Because this isn't 1976 and some players have other priorities.

And in 1976 Orr didnt have priorites? Or a family? Give me a break that's a load!
Look at the Canadian players. Jose Theodore doesnt complain for a second and then Eddie pulls out and he's in like that! Guys are honoured to be playing. And they should be. Gretzky said Rick Nash and Bouwmeester are on stand by in case of an injury even if they arent at camp. You think they wouldnt join the team if someone got hurt on August 28th? You bet they would. That's the way to do it.

One thing that comes to mind as all of these drop outs are a t-i-t for t-a-t thing.

Agent calls player:
"GM is saying they aren't signing guys until they know what the new CBA will be."

Player:
"Well, I won't play in their World Cup until I know what my contract will be."

That is my impression, that all of these dropouts are a shot at an NHL sponsored event, and now it is being used as a bargaining chip.

Which also leads to no insurance coverage for players that aren't signed....no?

There's no way you can call this tournament a joke. with the exception of about 2-5 players per team on avg these teams are stacked with NHLers and talent with the exception of Germany (who may surprise a team or two).

There's no way this is a joke. How would you know anyways there hasn't been a world cup since the NHLers were allowed to play in the Olympics.

All I know is i'll be watching every game I can and cheering on Canada till they capture the gold. That won't be so much of a joke will it?

You may not be cheering very long if you're only cheering for Canada! It is starting to look grim for them, too. The USA should be the favorite right now, based on who is NOT playing for their respective teams. Although goaltending will probably save the day for Team Canada.

Yes, the World Cup is almost as big a joke as the Olympics are now. Pros playing in an amateur contest? Ooohhh, real tough to win THAT! I hope the Olympics boots out both the pro basketball players and the NHL hockey players (and pro baseball players, too, I guess). THEN at least it means something to have won a medal. However, since the World Cup is SUPPOSED to be the highest level players in the world, it probably actually should mean MORE than the Olympics to these guys.

You may not be cheering very long if you're only cheering for Canada! It is starting to look grim for them, too. The USA should be the favorite right now, based on who is NOT playing for their respective teams. Although goaltending will probably save the day for Team Canada.

Yes, the World Cup is almost as big a joke as the Olympics are now. Pros playing in an amateur contest? Ooohhh, real tough to win THAT! I hope the Olympics boots out both the pro basketball players and the NHL hockey players (and pro baseball players, too, I guess). THEN at least it means something to have won a medal. However, since the World Cup is SUPPOSED to be the highest level players in the world, it probably actually should mean MORE than the Olympics to these guys.

The last time I checked baseball is still amatuers. But yeah I agree on booting them.

Well its looking good for Canada anyway. Atleast our competition is diminishing. They are going from favorites to heavy favorites now.

There is no way the USA should be consider the favorites, no way. I'm just being honoest. I admit that the US is a very strong team but they will not be able to match up against Canada or Sweden.

If NHL players weren't allowed to play in the Olympics, Canada and the USA would have a big disadvantage compared to the European countries.
Not neccessarily in quality, both would have enough excellent players left, but in equality.

European countries could choose players from their top league, while USA and Canada couldn't do that. They would have to use college, junior or minor league (not AHL) players.

Well its looking good for Canada anyway. Atleast our competition is diminishing. They are going from favorites to heavy favorites now.

There is no way the USA should be consider the favorites, no way. I'm just being honoest. I admit that the US is a very strong team but they will not be able to match up against Canada or Sweden.


I rank Canada's diviosion as follows :

Canada - 3-0
Slovakis - 2-1
USA - 0-2-1
Russia -0-2-1

USA is no threat at ALL ! Canada loses Yzerman, Who cares, he should not have been there in the 1st place ! Blake is a loss, but We have 4 guys that could replace him. Only concern is Sweden !

I rank Canada's diviosion as follows :

Canada - 3-0
Slovakis - 2-1
USA - 0-2-1
Russia -0-2-1

USA is no threat at ALL ! Canada loses Yzerman, Who cares, he should not have been there in the 1st place ! Blake is a loss, but We have 4 guys that could replace him. Only concern is Sweden !

Notice how Canada is the only country that can replace a superstar player with another superstar? :banana:

You may not be cheering very long if you're only cheering for Canada! It is starting to look grim for them, too. The USA should be the favorite right now, based on who is NOT playing for their respective teams. Although goaltending will probably save the day for Team Canada.

How is it looking grim for Canada? They are still the overwhelming favorite to win this tournament.

Yes, the World Cup is almost as big a joke as the Olympics are now. Pros playing in an amateur contest? Ooohhh, real tough to win THAT! I hope the Olympics boots out both the pro basketball players and the NHL hockey players (and pro baseball players, too, I guess). THEN at least it means something to have won a medal. However, since the World Cup is SUPPOSED to be the highest level players in the world, it probably actually should mean MORE than the Olympics to these guys.

What are you talking about? Pros playing in an amateur contest? Its not like the pro NHL players are playing against amateur bobsledders. Its pros vs pros from every country. How is that not "real tough to win"?

Why should pros not be allowed? If its supposed to be the best in the world, it should be the best, no restrictions. Why would it mean less if pro basketball players win a gold against other pros, than if amateur players win it against amateurs? Its supposed to be about the best athletes from each country (note: Yao Ming is carrying the flag for China). If the amateurs were better athletes, they would be professional and be making millions.

I dont understand your logic and why you are so bitter.

It *is* quickly becoming a joke. Players are dropping like flies, it's pretty much one or two a day right now. Every day I get up, and click on TSN to see who dropped out today.

This apathy is what killed the Canada Cup the first time.

If you think the World Cup is going to be a joke, why don't you just quit paying attention to the tournament?

It is quite a simple solution, and those who are going to be watching the tournament won't be bothered by your bitterness.




Yes, the World Cup is almost as big a joke as the Olympics are now. Pros playing in an amateur contest? Ooohhh, real tough to win THAT!

You speak as if Canada was the only country to have professional hockey players.

When your competition is at the same level as you, it is tough to win.


I hope the Olympics boots out both the pro basketball players and the NHL hockey players (and pro baseball players, too, I guess).THEN at least it means something to have won a medal.

I see the Olympics as being about the best athletes on the planet.

Look at other sports....track and field, cycling, and other similar sports....they have no professional leagues. The athletes competing in those sports are the best on the planet at what they do. Why should sports like hockey, basketball and baseball not be allowed to use their best athletes?

Czech's Anyone?

Well they aren't the favourites, but they are my suprise pick. Once the offence gets rolling watch out!

Canada, are the favourites heading into this World Cup of Hockey by the way.

Canadians are scared because if NHL players can't play in international tournaments, they'd be waiting another 50 years for a gold medal. :teach:

Canadians are scared because if NHL players can't play in international tournaments, they'd be waiting another 50 years for a gold medal. :teach:

Thats right buddy, we are pissing our pants. :shakehead


Until we actually have to wait another 50 years, tape it shut. Keep your pointless random comments to yourself.

Canadians are scared because if NHL players can't play in international tournaments, they'd be waiting another 50 years for a gold medal. :teach:

It wouldn't have been that long had the USSR not had teams that were equivalent to the NHL allstar teams of the time.

Other countries didn't win gold medals in hockey back then... The Soviets lost them... Everything depended on them. Miracle on Ice? Yup, it most certainly was a miracle.... the Russians showed up with their C game and the Americans showed up with the game of their lives - that's what makes it special. But ya, Americans as the favourites for the tournament........ The difference in net is so astronomical that we have guys who weren't even considered for the team that would be easy picks as the starter for America, Russia(only thanks to no Khabi in this case), Sweden.

I wanted Finland to send the mestis team or something to this world cup :P Don't want any valuable players to be long term injured and miss future games that are of importance.

Thats right buddy, we are pissing our pants. :shakehead


Until we actually have to wait another 50 years, tape it shut. Keep your pointless random comments to yourself.

He's right.

If NHL players are not at the Olympics, Hockey Canada would have to revive the national Olympic team, which included the best players from college/university hockey after they graduated....Meanwhile, European countries can still select players from their domestic elite leagues. For Canada and the USA, their domestic elite league is the NHL.

And sadly, unless the NHL and NHLPA come to a CBA agreement to start the season by November/December, I don't see the NHL at Torino 2006.

It wouldn't have been that long had the USSR not had teams that were equivalent to the NHL allstar teams of the time.




ah yes, thoes russian teams that played NHL teams in scimmages consisting of thoes canadian players that couldn't play. :lol

Canada doesn't beat russian in 1972 unless Bobby Clarke goes slashy slashy. :lol


It's ok, you don't have to admit it, i'm just speaking the facts here folks. You can live in your fantasy land for as long as you like. :lol

ah yes, thoes russian teams that played NHL teams in scimmages consisting of thoes canadian players that couldn't play. :lol

Canada doesn't beat russian in 1972 unless Bobby Clarke goes slashy slashy. :lol


It's ok, you don't have to admit it, i'm just speaking the facts here folks. You can live in your fantasy land for as long as you like. :lol

So I guess the Fluke on Ice wouldn't have happened if the Soviet's coach wasn't high and pulled Tretiak then. :lol

You may not be cheering very long if you're only cheering for Canada! It is starting to look grim for them, too. The USA should be the favorite right now, based on who is NOT playing for their respective teams. Although goaltending will probably save the day for Team Canada.

Yes, the World Cup is almost as big a joke as the Olympics are now. Pros playing in an amateur contest? Ooohhh, real tough to win THAT! I hope the Olympics boots out both the pro basketball players and the NHL hockey players (and pro baseball players, too, I guess). THEN at least it means something to have won a medal. However, since the World Cup is SUPPOSED to be the highest level players in the world, it probably actually should mean MORE than the Olympics to these guys.

sorry but don't think so

The last time I checked baseball is still amatuers. But yeah I agree on booting them.
No its not

I see the Olympics as being about the best athletes on the planet.

Look at other sports....track and field, cycling, and other similar sports....they have no professional leagues. The athletes competing in those sports are the best on the planet at what they do. Why should sports like hockey, basketball and baseball not be allowed to use their best athletes?

I agree with everything you said up to here. There are plenty of non stick-and-ball sports where the Olympics are not the premiere competiton, and the best athletes do not always participate. Cycling is a professional sport, where the top teams have budgets of around ten million dollars. The Olympics are hardly one of the marquee events of the cycling schedule, and several top cyclists are not even participating, Lance Armstrong among them. Olympic tennis is certainly not afforded the same level of prestige as the Grand Slams, and has seen plenty of pullouts. If golf ever becomes an Olympic sport, it will never be as important as any of the Majors. Skiing has a full professional circuit where the big races at the historic mountains are just as important as the Olympics. There are many other examples.

Am I missing something? It seems like only the Russian team can be considered as not representing the best their country has to offer. The other teams have a couple of guys dropping out, but injuries happen all the time, and you can't expect a completely full roster.

I agree with everything you said up to here. There are plenty of non stick-and-ball sports where the Olympics are not the premiere competiton, and the best athletes do not always participate. Cycling is a professional sport, where the top teams have budgets of around ten million dollars. The Olympics are hardly one of the marquee events of the cycling schedule, and several top cyclists are not even participating, Lance Armstrong among them. Olympic tennis is certainly not afforded the same level of prestige as the Grand Slams, and has seen plenty of pullouts. If golf ever becomes an Olympic sport, it will never be as important as any of the Majors. Skiing has a full professional circuit where the big races at the historic mountains are just as important as the Olympics. There are many other examples.

You're missing my point.

In all those other sports, the best athletes, such as Lance Armstrong, are eligible to compete. Whether they choose to or not is irrelevant. The best athletes in hockey, basketball and baseball are in the NHL, NBA and MLB respectively. What makes those leagues so special that their athletes should not be allowed to compete?

...and more specific to this topic, why should Joe Canada of the Vancouver Canucks (NHL) not be allowed to represent Canada at the Olympics while it is ok for Mats Sweden of MODO (Swedish Elite League) to represent Sweden at the Olympics? They both make money to play professional hockey. What is the difference?

You're missing my point.

In all those other sports, the best athletes, such as Lance Armstrong, are eligible to compete. Whether they choose to or not is irrelevant. The best athletes in hockey, basketball and baseball are in the NHL, NBA and MLB respectively. What makes those leagues so special that their athletes should not be allowed to compete?

...and more specific to this topic, why should Joe Canada of the Vancouver Canucks (NHL) not be allowed to represent Canada at the Olympics while it is ok for Mats Sweden of MODO (Swedish Elite League) to represent Sweden at the Olympics? They both make money to play professional hockey. What is the difference?

OK thanks for clarifying. I suppose the answer to your question is: the difference is that NHL/NBA/MLB teams simply will not release players from their contractual obligations to their employers without a general agreement stipulating how it will be done. And since these leagues don't make themselves subservient to some bureaucratic body (like the top soccer leagues do to FIFA), they answer to no one.

OK thanks for clarifying. I suppose the answer to your question is: the difference is that NHL/NBA/MLB teams simply will not release players from their contractual obligations to their employers without a general agreement stipulating how it will be done. And since these leagues don't make themselves subservient to some bureaucratic body (like the top soccer leagues do to FIFA), they answer to no one.

I understand the leagues controlling themselves, but there are people out there who think that NHL, NBA and MLB players should not be part of the Olympics (MLB players still aren't). Most people go with the ever-so-common, "The Olympics are for amateur athletes" reasoning without realizing that many of these "amateurs" of other sports make a living (which means money) doing what they do.

My question is targeted at those who are against Joe Canada (NHL) playing at the Olympics, but are fine with Mats Sweden (Swedish Elite League) playing at the Olympics.

I think the Olypmics should be about the best in the world...

The one example you guys left out is Tennis. In both the mens and womens competition, the Olympic tournament counts towards actual points in their respective ranking systems just like any other weekly tournament does.

ah yes, thoes russian teams that played NHL teams in scimmages consisting of thoes canadian players that couldn't play. :lol

Canada doesn't beat russian in 1972 unless Bobby Clarke goes slashy slashy. :lol


It's ok, you don't have to admit it, i'm just speaking the facts here folks. You can live in your fantasy land for as long as you like. :lol

Buddy, the two best players in the world (Bobby Hull and Bobby Orr) weren't playing for us. If they're in, we win the last six games easy.

Fantasy Land? lol

Even Europeans are proclaiming a new golden age of Canadian hockey, you're a fool if you think Canada isn't still the premier (and more so then 6-7 years ago) nation for hockey.

How is it looking grim for Canada? They are still the overwhelming favorite to win this tournament.



What are you talking about? Pros playing in an amateur contest? Its not like the pro NHL players are playing against amateur bobsledders. Its pros vs pros from every country. How is that not "real tough to win"?

Why should pros not be allowed? If its supposed to be the best in the world, it should be the best, no restrictions. Why would it mean less if pro basketball players win a gold against other pros, than if amateur players win it against amateurs? Its supposed to be about the best athletes from each country (note: Yao Ming is carrying the flag for China). If the amateurs were better athletes, they would be professional and be making millions.

I dont understand your logic and why you are so bitter.

Agreed with totally? How is Canada not the favorite... is this guy being serious ???

and how are the olympics a joke.... for example if your a 100 meter sprinter your running against the best 100 meter sprinters in the world....
so hockeys the game.

People need to stop hating on the World Cup and Olympics and enjoy the magnitude of the event. Most of the best hockey players in the world competing for their country... it's amazing.

ah yes, thoes russian teams that played NHL teams in scimmages consisting of thoes canadian players that couldn't play. :lol

Canada doesn't beat russian in 1972 unless Bobby Clarke goes slashy slashy. :lol


It's ok, you don't have to admit it, i'm just speaking the facts here folks. You can live in your fantasy land for as long as you like. :lol

You have to be joking with that comment.... Are you just bitter that nobody wants to play for russia now??? thats fine lol I wouldn't want to play for them either.

and about the 1976 congradulations on the loss.... must feel good 28 years later when your reminising...

anyways bottom line theres alot of talent in other countries for hockey, but Canada is just much deeper and talented than the rest of the field.

Am I missing something? It seems like only the Russian team can be considered as not representing the best their country has to offer. The other teams have a couple of guys dropping out, but injuries happen all the time, and you can't expect a completely full roster.


I tend to agree with this. Yes, most if not all teams have lost one or more guys, mostly due to injury, with the exception of Russia. The horrendous state of the Russian hockey federation has taken a serious toll there, but that doesn't mean the tourney as a whole is going to suck, regardless of what all the Hal Gill haters have to say.

You have to be joking with that comment.... Are you just bitter that nobody wants to play for russia now??? thats fine lol I wouldn't want to play for them either.

and about the 1976 congradulations on the loss.... must feel good 28 years later when your reminising...

anyways bottom line theres alot of talent in other countries for hockey, but Canada is just much deeper and talented than the rest of the field.


I think it's pretty clear that Canada has more depth to draw on than anyone else, but more talented? I would think that if all of the top Russian players were gathered together they would get the nod there.

I think it's pretty clear that Canada has more depth to draw on than anyone else. but more talented? I would think that if all of the top Russian players were gathered together they would get the nod there.
No way..... just because a guy is a one way hockey player doesn't mean he's more talented than a canadian...

look at a guy like Patrick Marleau... he's got just as good "skills" as MOST russian players and can play a two way game... the majority of the russian team are offensive minded and they do not have a complete game.. this does not mean that a Canadian isn't as talented just because they do more than just score.

ah yes, thoes russian teams that played NHL teams in scimmages consisting of thoes canadian players that couldn't play. :lol

Canada doesn't beat russian in 1972 unless Bobby Clarke goes slashy slashy. :lol


It's ok, you don't have to admit it, i'm just speaking the facts here folks. You can live in your fantasy land for as long as you like. :lol
What a ridiculous comment. Canada would have dominated Russia had Bobby Orr not been hurt. We were also missing Bobby Hull and a couple others that couldn't play for various reasons. Then take into account that the Canadians spent very little time preparing for the series unlike the Russians and it was the offseason so many of the players weren't in top game shape.
The commies also did everything they could to sabotage Team Canada such as making wake up calls in the middle of the night and having biased refferring.
Bottom line is Canada won that series fair and square. :yo:

What a ridiculous comment. Canada would have dominated Russia had Bobby Orr not been hurt. We were also missing Bobby Hull and a couple others that couldn't play for various reasons. Then take into account that the Canadians spent very little time preparing for the series unlike the Russians and it was the offseason so many of the players weren't in top game shape.
The commies also did everything they could to sabotage Team Canada such as making wake up calls in the middle of the night and having biased refferring.
Bottom line is Canada won that series fair and square. :yo:


Maybe we could get Bobby to slash Reilley 311 !!!!!!!!!!!

I understand the leagues controlling themselves, but there are people out there who think that NHL, NBA and MLB players should not be part of the Olympics (MLB players still aren't). Most people go with the ever-so-common, "The Olympics are for amateur athletes" reasoning without realizing that many of these "amateurs" of other sports make a living (which means money) doing what they do.

My question is targeted at those who are against Joe Canada (NHL) playing at the Olympics, but are fine with Mats Sweden (Swedish Elite League) playing at the Olympics.

Oh, now I agree totally. The idea of "amateur athletes" is simply BS today, other than figure skating I don't know if there are any sports in the olympics that still care to even make the distinction. I think the source of that sentiment is uneducated fans who assume that only athletes in the big-four North American leagues make a lot of money playing sports, and hence these are the only "real" professionals. This of course is nonsense when you have guys like Lance Armstrong making 20 million dollars a year, and most of the tennis players being multi-millionaires.

Maybe we could get Bobby to slash Reilley 311 !!!!!!!!!!!
Good idea. :joker:

Anybody else dissappointed in Team USA? Who was the last true impact player from the USA? It used to be that the US could at least compete up front when guys like Modano, Roenick, Guerin, Amonte, and Leclair were in their prime. Off the top of my head, I can't think of 1 Team USA player that would be playing for Canada.

People think players have some sort of obligation to play in the World Cup. If you were picked to be on the Russian team, and you saw the clusterfudge, chaos and mass hysteria their organization is, I sure as hell wouldn't want to play.

I think it's pretty obvious that if he were picked for the Russian team, he wouldn't want you to play either. ;)

Anybody else dissappointed in Team USA?


Considering they don't have any other better players...no.

Anybody else dissappointed in Team USA? Who was the last true impact player from the USA? It used to be that the US could at least compete up front when guys like Modano, Roenick, Guerin, Amonte, and Leclair were in their prime. Off the top of my head, I can't think of 1 Team USA player that would be playing for Canada.


I guess the Mike Modano fall-out continues. Trust me, he'd make Team Canada, even with the season he had last year. As for the U.S. team as a whole, no, it's not the most talented, but it's well-balanced, and has alot of strong two-way players. The biggest weakness is inexperience in goal, and that could be overblown.

If you think the World Cup is going to be a joke, why don't you just quit paying attention to the tournament?

It is quite a simple solution, and those who are going to be watching the tournament won't be bothered by your bitterness.

Bitterness? :joker: That's what making observations is? Nobody is bitter about anything.

I apologise for making a comment on something that's obviously so near and dear to your heart. But that doesn't change the fact that what's supposed to be a pre-eminent event, the best of the best for hockey supremacy, is rapidly becoming the "good to half decent" battling for hockey irrelevancy.

Your attitude is like one of those insane jingoists, who tell you to leave the country if you should dare to not love everything completely about the way things are being run.

If a North American team wins again there will be some Europeans who will claim that the tournament is "irrelevant" . Some (particularly Russians) claimed that the Salt Lake City games were fixed.

Maybe we could get Bobby to slash Reilley 311 !!!!!!!!!!!

TOUCHE!!! :handclap:

It'll only suck for Russia.

I was lookin forward to seein' Nabokov in goal...

Your attitude is like one of those insane jingoists, who tell you to leave the country if you should dare to not love everything completely about the way things are being run.

My attitude is more like, "If you don't care for the World Cup, don't watch it."

You act as if you have some obligation to pay attention to the World Cup, when in reality, you don't.

But that doesn't change the fact that what's supposed to be a pre-eminent event, the best of the best for hockey supremacy, is rapidly becoming the "good to half decent" battling for hockey irrelevancy.


Uhh...no. It is your opinion. Please don't confuse that with actual facts.

The North American Teams obviously are favored because the playoffs are played in North America with american and canadían referees. Just like in the canada cup.
I think it was an unbelievable effort of russia in 1987 for example, to play so even with canada despite north american referees, north american rules and the crowd cheering for canada. (also Marios deciding goal was preceeded by an obvious interferece of a russian player)

The North American Teams obviously are favored because the playoffs are played in North America with american and canadían referees. Just like in the canada cup.
I think it was an unbelievable effort of russia in 1987 for example, to play so even with canada despite north american referees, north american rules and the crowd cheering for canada. (also Marios deciding goal was preceeded by an obvious interferece of a russian player)

Correct me if i'm wrong here, it's been a while since I watched the tapes, but I seem to remember a game in Russia in the '72 Summit Series where Canada scored a goal which the referees/goaljudge disallowed for no apparent reason.

What a ridiculous comment. Canada would have dominated Russia had Bobby Orr not been hurt.

Firsov wasn't participating for the Soviet team. In skills he was right there with Kharlamov but stronger physically.

Now there are doubts whether Forsberg will play or not. :banghead:

While the World Cup is certainly not a joke, it certainly isn't the "best on best" tournament people were expecting it to be.

well Im still excited about it! I want to see Vokoun and the Czech's redeem themselves.

The North American Teams obviously are favored because the playoffs are played in North America with american and canadían referees.

The vast majority of players in the World Cup are NHL players. The officials for the World Cup are NHL officials. There should be no "getting used to" the officiating at the World Cup for any team.

Buddy, the two best players in the world (Bobby Hull and Bobby Orr) weren't playing for us. If they're in, we win the last six games easy.

Fantasy Land? lol

Even Europeans are proclaiming a new golden age of Canadian hockey, you're a fool if you think Canada isn't still the premier (and more so then 6-7 years ago) nation for hockey.

What other country CONCEIVABLY could ice 3-4 teams with star players with EACH TEAM capable of winning the Gold??? Canada has depth that no other country can match up to...and that's the truth.

The North American Teams obviously are favored because the playoffs are played in North America with american and canadían referees. Just like in the canada cup.
I think it was an unbelievable effort of russia in 1987 for example, to play so even with canada despite north american referees, north american rules and the crowd cheering for canada. (also Marios deciding goal was preceeded by an obvious interferece of a russian player)

C'mon now, if that's the case then Canada overcame nearly impossible odds to win world championships. Unlike the Europeans alot of them have never played the big ice, or have only played there in like junior 10 years ago, and the crowds are just as anti-Canadian in Europe as crowds are pro-Canadian in Canada.

However, I do agree with you that the Soviets played so good in 87, the two teams were pretty much absolute equals, except for the great difference makers Wayne and his side kick Mario.

The North American Teams obviously are favored because the playoffs are played in North America with american and canadían referees. Just like in the canada cup.
....

Take a poll of all the NHL players playing in the World Cup (including those on the European teams) and they will tell you that the NHL referees are the best (and most unbaissed) in the world....

I've heard players such as Sundin, Forsberg, Palffy, Bondra, Bure, Samsonov, Selanne, Kapanen, Jagr and Reichel say as such.

The North American Teams obviously are favored because the playoffs are played in North America with american and canadían referees. Just like in the canada cup.
I think it was an unbelievable effort of russia in 1987 for example, to play so even with canada despite north american referees, north american rules and the crowd cheering for canada. (also Marios deciding goal was preceeded by an obvious interferece of a russian player)


Big deal. :nopity:

The top European talent plays in the NHL now, and they have tons of experience playing on the smaller surface, so throw this excuse out the window. The Canada Cup in '87 was the best hockey ever played up to this point, with each game ending 6-5, and the games being won last minute or in OT (with all due respect to '72, '87 was better hockey but '72 was way more symbolic).

There wasn't, nor is there, any more bias with the Canadian refs as there is at every tournament held in Europe. They're either just the typically poor quality referee, or they're simply calling the games the Canadian way. If you want to suggest the refs are/were biased, well...boo hoo. Consider the following:

- in '72, the government in the USSR tried to arrest Alan Eagleson and drag him away during a game (not that he didn't deserve it a few years later)
- the refs concocted phantom calls or ignored some fouls so blatant that the most novice ref would call
- the WC's have never been held in Canada, which has meant playing on international ice each time
- with the NHL playoffs in full swing at the same time as the WC's, historically it has meant that Canada could have never won anyway because the other countries could send their best players (of course this predates the the influx of European players at the beginning of the '90s)
- the World Championships and the Olympics use international rules, which results in Canada spending a lot of time shorthanded simply because there was a big hit, the opponent went down, and he rolled around and cried like Rivaldo


If you want to suggest there was an interference on the Lemieux goal go ahead, but consider this:
- Fetisov was on the bench in the last 2 minutes of the game when both Gretzky and Lemieux were on the ice together
- the initial 2 v 1 that ensued (and became a 3 v 1) saw Igor Kravchuk, a 19 year old, slide on his rear end toward Gretzky, leaving Lemieux wide open for a shot the needed to be perfect
- the assembled Russian team all played with each other year round, for their entire pro level career, whereas Canada had a two week camp

It's up to you, but Europeans complaining about biased Canadian refs at the World Cup, or in '87 as suggested above, have nothing to complain about over the years. I do think Clarke breaking Kharlamov's(sp?) leg is a disgrace and puts an asteriks on the win for me, but I don't have that much sympathy when you consider the Soviet refs. I guess if you're going to get called for standing close to a guy you may as well earn that penalty.

Take a poll of all the NHL players playing in the World Cup (including those on the European teams) and they will tell you that the NHL referees are the best (and most unbaissed) in the world....

I've heard players such as Sundin, Forsberg, Palffy, Bondra, Bure, Samsonov, Selanne, Kapanen, Jagr and Reichel say as such.
Huh? Selänne has said that the NHL refs are good, but that there are european ones that are better.

I think that the best refs are in the NHL, there are a few rotten apples, but mostly good.

I rarely criticize the referees and find the daily whinefest during the playoffs about officiating to be nauseating. That being said, McCreary's call of the 2002 semi-final was absolutely one of the worst refereeing performances I've ever seen, and Fetisov was perfectly right to call him out on it.

- the WC's have never been held in Canada, which has meant playing on international ice each time

That's the NHL's fault, unfortunately.

Uhh...no. It is your opinion. Please don't confuse that with actual facts.

No, it's a *fact* that many of the best players in the world have withdrawn.

You don't really want to argue that Hal Gill is just as good as Schneider, or Bouwmeester anywhere close to Pronger, do you?

If NHL players weren't allowed to play in the Olympics, Canada and the USA would have a big disadvantage compared to the European countries.
Not neccessarily in quality, both would have enough excellent players left, but in equality.

European countries could choose players from their top league, while USA and Canada couldn't do that. They would have to use college, junior or minor league (not AHL) players.


Good point. If the NHLers were ineligible then shouldn't players in all the professional leagues be ineligible. No SEL, no German League, no Russian Superleage etc... The days of amatuer sport are dead, many of the cyclists just competed in the Tour de France, the track stars are on massive sponsorships. There are probably only a few dozen sports that aren't fully professional, shooting, archery, and other minor sports.

Good point. If the NHLers were ineligible then shouldn't players in all the professional leagues be ineligible. No SEL, no German League, no Russian Superleage etc... The days of amatuer sport are dead, many of the cyclists just competed in the Tour de France, the track stars are on massive sponsorships. There are probably only a few dozen sports that aren't fully professional, shooting, archery, and other minor sports.
The SEL is only semi-professional, like the SM-liiga in Finland. The only professionals in those leagues are those who have gotten pro pay in another league.

If a North American team wins again there will be some Europeans who will claim that the tournament is "irrelevant" . Some (particularly Russians) claimed that the Salt Lake City games were fixed.
With the way the Russians played the first two periods in the Semi's if there was a fix they were in on it. A disgraceful display then they picked it up in the third. Too late by then.

The SEL is only semi-professional, like the SM-liiga in Finland. The only professionals in those leagues are those who have gotten pro pay in another league.


So the best players in the SEL are not full time hockey players?

So the best players in the SEL are not full time hockey players?

Yes, they are. The SM-liiga and SEL are both pro leagues and the best players do get paid very good money (between 200 and 250 grand a season.)

and the crowds are just as anti-Canadian in Europe as crowds are pro-Canadian in Canada.


Crowds in europe are hardly Anti-Canadian. Usually Canada is cheered for and admired. Sometimes in the past they have tried to rough things up in a game they have already lost and crowds have not liked that for obvious reasons, but in general all hockey fans respect Canada loads. And your southern neighbour is making sure that they take all the heat with their actions all over the globe.

The SEL is only semi-professional, like the SM-liiga in Finland. The only professionals in those leagues are those who have gotten pro pay in another league.
I wouldn't say this in that way. There are few players who work part-timely, but they are very rare. Not even one per team. And then there are students, most youngsters are in high school (which are actually sport oriented) and some are in university. But studying while playing is quite hard and the players won't get many credits during the season.

Most players in Finland are professionals and train two times per day.

Crowds in europe are hardly Anti-Canadian. Usually Canada is cheered for and admired. Sometimes in the past they have tried to rough things up in a game they have already lost and crowds have not liked that for obvious reasons, but in general all hockey fans respect Canada loads. And your southern neighbour is making sure that they take all the heat with their actions all over the globe.


Yep, Canada is the hockey equivilent of Jesus Christ. :shakehead