would you lose respect for a player if...

he decline to play for their country? does it change the way you feel about them or does it not matter to you at all?

he decline to play for their country? does it change the way you feel about them or does it not matter to you at all?

it doesn't matter for me. if i'd be a player, i'd refuse to play for germany.

i like international tournaments a bit, but i prefer the league hockey.

Not at all. I admire players who do it but I don't think they should if they don't have the love for it.

It all depends. If someone had a bad experience with the coaches, players, staff, ect of their country I could see why. However, if they choose to play for another country because they either don;t love their country or because they were not good enough to play for theirs and they were bitter about it *cough*Hull*cough*, than I would loose all respect for him.

When it comes to european players...

The national team, and especially the World Championships, serves as a big shopping window. If you perform well in the national team it´s a lot easier getting a NHL-contract, a player like Mathias Johansson would never have been given the oppurtunity if he hadn´t played at the Olympics in Salt Lake City.

A lot of (wise) people here think that the players should be more grateful to the national team, in most cases it´s the national team that have taken them to the NHL with all their money.

Yes, unless they are just back from injury or have personal reasons for not playing, I lose a bit of respect for a player.

If you came up through a certain country's hockey association, I think that there is an obligation to play if chosen.

I don't really have any respect for Brett Hull in the first place so his US/Canada thing doesn't have any effect on me.

Khabibulin should play at the WC. I dunno, but someone told me Kovalchuk was going to skip it but I hope not. It is unfair for a country if a great player from there skips a tourney while another country puts together a superteam ala Team Canada.

Yeah, I believe patriotism comes before sport. It's their duty to respresent their country as best they can.

Stuff like Brett Hull is even worse.

I usually don't because most players have varied reasons.

There are cases where they want to spend time with their families (many had children in the season that they couldn't spend as much time with and those sorts of things). I think that the family should come first.

In the case with Russia, I understand the players reasoning, even if I don't really agree with them. But some of these players have been treated like dirt by their national teams so they have every right to just snub them as well.

I'd only really have a problem with it is the player just didn't want to. They want to rest, or they were talking about a contract. Those are stupid excuses IMO. Recovering from an injury is one thing, but just because you had a long playoff run isn't an excuse.


But overall, no i don't lose respect for the players.

It all depends. If someone had a bad experience with the coaches, players, staff, ect of their country I could see why. However, if they choose to play for another country because they either don;t love their country or because they were not good enough to play for theirs and they were bitter about it *cough*Hull*cough*, than I would loose all respect for him.
I agree with this.

That is the players choice (the beauty of democracy) but if I played I would like nothing more than to represent my country. These athletes aren't soldiers or anything so it is a different way to show support and respect (no, I am not saying they are equal, obviously a soldier is a much larger committment).

adam

Yes, i lose respect for some bum who gets umpteen million dollars to play in the league but doesn't have the decency to put it all on the line for his country that taught him how to play the sport to begin with.

Remember Gretzky crying on the bench in Nagano?? That is what national pride is all about.

it doesn't matter for me. if i'd be a player, i'd refuse to play for germany.

Why?

:dunno:

Yes, unless they are just back from injury or have personal reasons for not playing, I lose a bit of respect for a player.

If you came up through a certain country's hockey association, I think that there is an obligation to play if chosen.

I don't really have any respect for Brett Hull in the first place so his US/Canada thing doesn't have any effect on me.

Khabibulin should play at the WC. I dunno, but someone told me Kovalchuk was going to skip it but I hope not. It is unfair for a country if a great player from there skips a tourney while another country puts together a superteam ala Team Canada.

Problem there is, if you don't agree with how the team is being run, and if you weren't treated with respect, they why play for the people who are running the team? True, your country doesn't benefit from your services, but if you're treated like crap then it doesn't really give you incentive to play your best. It's not just Khabibulin either. A lot of Russian NHLers aren't playing for Russia because of the people who are running the team.

Problem there is, if you don't agree with how the team is being run, and if you weren't treated with respect, they why play for the people who are running the team? True, your country doesn't benefit from your services, but if you're treated like crap then it doesn't really give you incentive to play your best. It's not just Khabibulin either. A lot of Russian NHLers aren't playing for Russia because of the people who are running the team.

thats what i was thinking too. russian could've put together a more talented team if every russian players are willing to play (ex: mogilny, khabibulin, etc). i feel bad for how they were treated in the past, but i think the country and patriotism comes before personal difference.
when i started this thread, the 3 names i was thinking about are patrick roy, alex mogilny, and nick khabibulin. i didnt lose respect to any one of them because im sure they have their reasons (reasons that are important to them that i cant understand), but i was disappointed in them for sure. anybody feel this way too?

I think it depends on the situation. If it is a superstar then I think that he should play for his country if at all possible. Imagine if Gretzky refused to play for Canada. If there is a decent replacement available then I would be more flexible.

What would be greater than playing for your country though?

This is why I think it's so hard to understand why most North American, especially American stars almost never seem to be willing to play for their country in the World Championships held every year in April-May. The ones that are out of the playoffs SHOULD play for their country unless they're injured, and it seems like it's mostly the European teams that get to have their best available players on their teams for these tournaments. Canada has improved alot lately but Team USA almost never get any of their stars to play for them. Even if the tournament is an IIHF endorsed one and has nothing to do with the NHL, I don't understand why they're not willing to play for their country, since most (but not all) European stars do play for their country if they're eliminated from the Stanley Cup. It's like their country means less to them in these tournaments than the World Cup or Olympics, why is that?

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Put it this way if Canada didnt have some guys refuse to play in '96 then we wouldnt be talking about the USA being World Cup Champs back then. Lemieux its true was injured for a lot fo the time, but Bourque had no excuse whatsoever back then.
Also Roenick didnt play back then because he didnt have a contract! Now that's turning your back on your country.

I dont mind what happenend in 1972 when Perreault, Hadfield and Martin took off and went home because if you hear it from their side they were told they wouldnt play again and were getting pressure form their NHL coaches at home to report to training camp. But refusing to play in Roenicks case or even worse Hull's and then going on Team USA is even more cut-throat. I think Kariya is good enough to be on Team Canada but that doesnt mean him and guys like Tanguay, Nash and Primeau should obtain dual citizenship either.

when i started this thread, the 3 names i was thinking about are patrick roy, alex mogilny, and nick khabibulin. i didnt lose respect to any one of them because im sure they have their reasons (reasons that are important to them that i cant understand), but i was disappointed in them for sure. anybody feel this way too?
No. It's their personal choice, and for some people, their national pride isn't wrapped up in sports. It's none of our business.

I don't know much about Roy's story, but just from the publicized problems that Mogilny and Khabibulin had, it's understandable to me if they don't want to play. The stuff that came out is bad enough, makes you wonder if even worse stuff was happening behind the scenes. I have more respect for Khabi that he's sticking to his guns and hasn't backed off his position like some Russian papers were suggesting he might do.

The people complaining the most about Khabibulin and calling him a traitor and whatnot are Panthers fans, if that sheds any light on the subject.

It's obvious that some people are using this thread as an excuse for Euro and American bashing. How very typical. :shakehead

Yes, i lose respect for some bum who gets umpteen million dollars to play in the league but doesn't have the decency to put it all on the line for his country that taught him how to play the sport to begin with.

Remember Gretzky crying on the bench in Nagano?? That is what national pride is all about.

:clap:

I wish there were that kind of pride in the NHL.

it doesnt really matter i wish less pro atletes would compete like this anyway o well

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, Patrick Roy doesn't want to play for Canada because he now lives in the U.S. with his American wife and very American children. Just another Brett Hull, I suppose.

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, Patrick Roy doesn't want to play for Canada because he now lives in the U.S. with his American wife and very American children. Just another Brett Hull, I suppose.
You just described every Canadian player in the NHL.

roy said he wanted to rest up so he can be healthy for the playoff run. seems to me like he put his nhl team ahead of his country. not that theres anything wrong with that, since he is paid millions and millions of dollars by the Avs to win them a championship (and with their team and a healthy roy they were among the favorite). i guess his loyalty should be with the Avs first and country second and i can understand that.
forturnately canada have so much talented goalie though, imagine if hasek pulled out of the '98 olympics to rest up for the playoff he might have cost them the gold medal.

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, Patrick Roy doesn't want to play for Canada because he now lives in the U.S. with his American wife and very American children. Just another Brett Hull, I suppose.

I do hope you are attemptng to crack wise here.....LOL

Just in case you are not, let me tell you that Patrick Roy lives in Canada with his very Canadian wife and and Canadian children.

I also do not understand why you are all so pissed at Brett Hull....dudes, ya did not want him on team Canada, you said he was not good enough. He then exercised his right of dual citizenship and was deemed good enough to play for the USA. I do not get why every Canadian disses him unmercifully for that.

Look at it from your own perspective...if you wanted to play for a team and they rejected you, would you go home, hang up the skates, and never play again? No, you would find a team that would take you, just like Hullie did.

he decline to play for their country?

Yes.

I also do not understand why you are all so pissed at Brett Hull....dudes, ya did not want him on team Canada, you said he was not good enough. He then exercised his right of dual citizenship and was deemed good enough to play for the USA. I do not get why every Canadian disses him unmercifully for that.

We diss him because he dissed Canada, seriously. Not only did he say himself that he did not consider himself Canadian, but at one point a couple years ago he had also reffered to Canadian fans as "morons".

I thought Roy didn't go because Quinn told him he would have to compete for the #1 job and Roy thought he was the #1 automatically.

I still don't get why Cujo was #1 ahead of Brodeur for the first game against Sweden.

I thought Roy didn't go because Quinn told him he would have to compete for the #1 job and Roy thought he was the #1 automatically.

I still don't get why Cujo was #1 ahead of Brodeur for the first game against Sweden.

I thought that Roy didn't go because he had other commitments with his family. :dunno:

This is why I think it's so hard to understand why most North American, especially American stars almost never seem to be willing to play for their country in the World Championships held every year in April-May. The ones that are out of the playoffs SHOULD play for their country unless they're injured, and it seems like it's mostly the European teams that get to have their best available players on their teams for these tournaments. Canada has improved alot lately but Team USA almost never get any of their stars to play for them. Even if the tournament is an IIHF endorsed one and has nothing to do with the NHL, I don't understand why they're not willing to play for their country, since most (but not all) European stars do play for their country if they're eliminated from the Stanley Cup. It's like their country means less to them in these tournaments than the World Cup or Olympics, why is that?

The IIHF World Championships are held in Europe most of the time...well, each of the past 10 years at least anyhow if I'm not mistaken. It's much less of a commitment for a Swedish player to say he wants to play in Finland or a Russian to play in Slovakia than it is for a Canadian to play in Germany. The travelling and such has to be a consideration.

We diss him because he dissed Canada, seriously. Not only did he say himself that he did not consider himself Canadian, but at one point a couple years ago he had also reffered to Canadian fans as "morons".

Thank you, that makes more sense. I had not specifically heard that. I always hear/read Canadians trashing Hull for being a traitor to Canada for playing for the USA in international tournaments.

Unless there are some serious extenuating circumstances (injury) if a player is asked to play for his country he go all the time.

I will however say that what Lemieux did to the Penguins in their fans in 2002 was far worse.

No.

First off the story with Hull is that he was rejected in 1986 to play for team Canada at the World Championships since they only took NHLers to play. It was Dave King who didnt invite him I believe. So? Big deal? Its like Sidney Crosby being pissed he wasnt invited to the World Cup and then getting picked by Team USA if he had dual citizenship.

You dont hear Paul Kariya saying he's now Japanese do you? Say for example Rick Nash has an american mother therefore having dual citizenship. He doesnt get picked by Canada, which is not a big deal cause he'll be a 50 goal man soon I'm sure and Canada does have some good players ahead of him. Now what if all of a sudden he went to Team USA despite not being an American. In the Gold Medal game he scores the winner against Canada. Yeah anyone would be pissed about that. Any American would call someone like that a traitor if it was the other way around.

You see that's what happened to Hull in 1996. Except it was the tying goal that was a tad questionable. So yes he did turn his back on his country, Adam Deadmarsh did the same thing. But both of them looked great in silver I thought in Salt Lake!

I do hope you are attemptng to crack wise here.....LOL

Just in case you are not, let me tell you that Patrick Roy lives in Canada with his very Canadian wife and and Canadian children.

I've heard dozens of reasons for why he doesn't play for Canada, if anyone thinks they know for sure then I won't doubt they know better than I do.

I also do not understand why you are all so pissed at Brett Hull....dudes, ya did not want him on team Canada, you said he was not good enough. He then exercised his right of dual citizenship and was deemed good enough to play for the USA. I do not get why every Canadian disses him unmercifully for that.

Look at it from your own perspective...if you wanted to play for a team and they rejected you, would you go home, hang up the skates, and never play again? No, you would find a team that would take you, just like Hullie did.

Brett Hull didn't find another team, he found another country. I'm sorry, but if I'm not the best person to represent my country, I'd rather be represented by someone who is. You don't see me trying to twist Gretzky's arm to get me on Team Canada, do you? Not because it won't work (because it probably wouldn't work for me to find him on the street and beg him to let me play) but because these people are supposed to show the world what Canada is, and what hockey means to us - and what Canada means to hockey. I'd rather get cut from the team and have my country win then make the team and have my country lose.

. But both of them looked great in silver I thought in Salt Lake!
:lol: :lol:

Any American would call someone like that a traitor if it was the other way around.

Nope, sorry.

International tournaments are important for a country's hockey program and for the little kids growing up. If a player is good enough to be asked to represent his country at such a high level, he should accept, unless of course an injury, serious issue... How many kids grow up dreaming to represent their country and to see a player blessed with their talent refuse to play, it's disrespectful.

I will however say that what Lemieux did to the Penguins in their fans in 2002 was far worse.

What did he do? :dunno:

(I'm sure I know, but it just left my mond at the moment.)

First off the story with Hull is that he was rejected in 1986 to play for team Canada at the World Championships since they only took NHLers to play. It was Dave King who didnt invite him I believe. So? Big deal? Its like Sidney Crosby being pissed he wasnt invited to the World Cup and then getting picked by Team USA if he had dual citizenship.

You dont hear Paul Kariya saying he's now Japanese do you? Say for example Rick Nash has an american mother therefore having dual citizenship. He doesnt get picked by Canada, which is not a big deal cause he'll be a 50 goal man soon I'm sure and Canada does have some good players ahead of him. Now what if all of a sudden he went to Team USA despite not being an American. In the Gold Medal game he scores the winner against Canada. Yeah anyone would be pissed about that. Any American would call someone like that a traitor if it was the other way around.

You see that's what happened to Hull in 1996. Except it was the tying goal that was a tad questionable. So yes he did turn his back on his country, Adam Deadmarsh did the same thing. But both of them looked great in silver I thought in Salt Lake!

I'm Canadian, and I don't have a problem with Brett Hull at all.
Team Canada wouldn't take him back in 1986 or whenever, and Team USA did. He's a dual-citizen. It's his right.
Then when he was 'good', Team Canada wanted him, but he decided to stay with the USA. I consider it more of a 'Thank You' to USA Hockey than a snub to Canada.

And then when I think about all the 'Canadians' like Daniel Igali and David Defiagbon, winning medals in World Competitions/Olympics, it bothers me even less.

What did he do? :dunno:

(I'm sure I know, but it just left my mond at the moment.)

Essentially played for Team Canada and the quit on the Pens and their season ticket holders for the rest of the year.

He built his entire schedule around the Olympics, the Pens and their fans be damned.

^Funny how those Pen fans you speak of don't hold the same opinion.

And of course Brett Hull had the right to do what he did, otherwise he couldn't have, but that doesn't mean he did the "right" thing. They felt he wasn't good enough to be on Team Canada, the team he was trying to be on, and it made him look like a baby to go off to another team and play there. I don't think a lot of people would do this, I think more people would get better and prove they deserve to be on the team instead.

^Funny how those Pen fans you speak of don't hold the same opinion.

And of course Brett Hull had the right to do what he did, otherwise he couldn't have, but that doesn't mean he did the "right" thing. They felt he wasn't good enough to be on Team Canada, the team he was trying to be on, and it made him look like a baby to go off to another team and play there. I don't think a lot of people would do this, I think more people would get better and prove they deserve to be on the team instead.

None of your explanations make any sense...it all comes back to you are pissed because he came to play with the US team AFTER he was rejected by the Canadian team...like I said before how can you fault him for wanting to play hockey?Again I ask, would you hang up your skates and not play at all if your first choice of teams rejected you?

How very petty and childish of you to expect Brett to not play at all if the great Team Canada has no place for him. So, according to your twisted reasoning, every player brought to training camp that does not make the big club is a traitor of some sort because they end up ultimately playing for a different team than the one they originally wanted to play for.

None of your explanations make any sense...it all comes back to you are pissed because he came to play with the US team AFTER he was rejected by the Canadian team...like I said before how can you fault him for wanting to play hockey?Again I ask, would you hang up your skates and not play at all if your first choice of teams rejected you?

How very petty and childish of you to expect Brett to not play at all if the great Team Canada has no place for him. So, according to your twisted reasoning, every player brought to training camp that does not make the big club is a traitor of some sort because they end up ultimately playing for a different team than the one they originally wanted to play for.

I'm not pissed that Brett left team Canada for team USA, Canada's just fine without him. That decision hasn't exactly come back to bite Canada in the *** and Canada has enough good players without him. If my country rejected me, I would not go join another country's team. I would try to become a better player and make the team next time, not turn my back on my country.

Playing for professional clubs and national teams are two completely different things and you know that. You play in the NHL to make money, so players should try getting on whatever team possible. You play in international tournaments to represent your country, not cry and go play with whoever will take you if you're not good enough to make your team.

because they were not good enough to play for theirs and they were bitter about it *cough*Hull*cough*, than I would loose all respect for him.

Brett Hull has two countries. Canada and the United States. Being a dual citizen, he had every right to play for the USA when they came calling.

Come next year, I will be a citizen of Canada and The Netherlands. I would feel equally proud representing either nation.

Players like Brady Murray are the ones I have a problem with. This kid held out from Team Canada's second U20 training camp for a guaranteed roster spot, and then jumped to the USA when Hockey Canada told him he would have to earn his spot with Team Canada.

Patrick Roy also bugged me when he wouldn't play at the 2002 Olympics if he was not named the starting goaltender before the tournament.


It's like their country means less to them in these tournaments than the World Cup or Olympics, why is that?

Here in North America, the World Championships mean little to nothing. Even Canadians in general wouldn't feel sad if Canada got whooped at the WC every May. I would bet that the majority of our generation's fans don't even know that Canada went without a Gold Medal from 1961-1994 at this tournament.

I think the biggest reason is that the IIHF has never held the World Championships in Canada or the USA. That will change in 2008 when Canada hosts, but I still don't think it will put this tournament on the map for Canadians because it takes place in the middle of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The only tournaments we really care about are the Olympics, World Cup (old Canada Cup) and the World U20 Championships....the tournaments where ALL of the best players eligible are available.

I also don't feel any hostility towards NHL players who choose not to participate in the World Championships after a long NHL season. These men spend a lot of time away from their families as it is. It is a huge favour to ask them to go to Europe for a few weeks on top of their season when they could spend some well-owed time with their wives and children.



Also Roenick didnt play back then because he didnt have a contract! Now that's turning your back on your country.


I don't blame Roenick one bit in that case. With no contract, you have no guarantees. All you would have is insurance for medical costs if necessary. If Roenick played and suffered a career-ending injury with no contract, he would have no compensation. Being an NHL-sanctioned tournament, suffering such an injury at the World Cup would entitle a player to $3M (if I remember correctly, and under the near-expired CBA). It is simply too much of a risk to play any professional hockey without a contract.


Not only did he say himself that he did not consider himself Canadian

Why would he? He tried out for Team Canada, got cut, and Team USA offered him a spot with them. Being an American Citizen, why should Hull be criticized for exercising his right to play for the USA?



Say for example Rick Nash has an american mother therefore having dual citizenship. He doesnt get picked by Canada, which is not a big deal cause he'll be a 50 goal man soon I'm sure and Canada does have some good players ahead of him. Now what if all of a sudden he went to Team USA despite not being an American.

Here is where you contradict yourself.

If Rick Nash has an American mother, he is an American Citizen, which makes him "American", thus giving him every right to represent the USA if he has not previously represented Canada.

I cannot believe how many Canadians lay it to Brett Hull for competing for one of his countries when the other would not take him. I don't think most of you realize what rights come with being a dual citizen...and if you do realize those rights, I sure don't see a lot of respect for them in this thread. You people act as if Hull went and "found another country" after Canada cut him, when in reality, the USA has been one of Hull's countries since he was born.

According to some mentalities seen in this thread, Daniel Igali should be crucified by the Nigerians because he is a Canadian Citizen and competes for Canada. Shame on him for winning Gold for Canada at the Olympics despite "not being Canadian". :rolleyes:

I think everyone understands what rights Hull has, but it doesn't mean we agree with what he did. And unless Igali tried out for Nigeria's wrestling squad and got cut first, then the situation is different.

I think everyone understands what rights Hull has, but it doesn't mean we agree with what he did. And unless Igali tried out for Nigeria's wrestling squad and got cut first, then the situation is different.

The situation is no different.

Hull is being criticized for representing the USA as a US citizen when he had never previously represented Canada (and no, trying out does not count as representing that country).

Igali is a landed immigrant who succesfully applied for Canadian Citizenship, thus he represents Canada, one of his two countries of nationality (unless Nigeria has a law forcing Igali to drop his Nigerian Citizenship once he gains another..that I am not aware of either way).

Both Hull and Igali have two countries to their names. Both Hull and Igali have represented one of those two countries in their respective sports....yet Hull takes a load of criticism from Canadians.

And no, I don't think many Canadians realize or respect Hull's rights as a dual citizen. I see a lot of comments about how Hull, "turned his back on his country", speaking as if he is nothing but a Canadian. That is nothing but a blatant lie.

It seems to me that Canadians criticizing Hull are just bitter and jealous to the fact that he does not represent Canada, despite having the right to represent the USA.

I'm not pissed that Brett left team Canada for team USA, Canada's just fine without him. That decision hasn't exactly come back to bite Canada in the *** and Canada has enough good players without him. If my country rejected me, I would not go join another country's team. I would try to become a better player and make the team next time, not turn my back on my country.

Playing for professional clubs and national teams are two completely different things and you know that. You play in the NHL to make money, so players should try getting on whatever team possible. You play in international tournaments to represent your country, not cry and go play with whoever will take you if you're not good enough to make your team.

So let's cut the crap and talk about what the real issue is here. Brett Hull was not invited to play for Canada in 1986 at the Canada Cup. He was not deemed good enough. According to your reasoning he should have just worked harder and hoped to get invited to play next time. Which would have been his only choice if he did not have dual citizenship. He had that option and with the preponderance of good Canadian hockey players it only made sense to play for the US. As you yourself said you don't need him or want him so why all this venom about him playing for the US.?

In truth all the hate comes from the fact that Hullie played very well in the 1996 World Cup and was instrumental in the US beating Canada. If he had not been successful as a member of the US team it is doubtful that Canadians would hate on him so.

BTW, he did play for his country in International tournaments but the country he played for was USA, which was just as much his country as Canada.

Brady Murray is actually Canadian!?!?!? :eek: I had no clue!

The situation is no different.

Hull is being criticized for representing the USA as a US citizen when he had never previously represented Canada (and no, trying out does not count as representing that country).

Igali is a landed immigrant who succesfully applied for Canadian Citizenship, thus he represents Canada, one of his two countries of nationality (unless Nigeria has a law forcing Igali to drop his Nigerian Citizenship once he gains another..that I am not aware of either way).

Both Hull and Igali have two countries to their names. Both Hull and Igali have represented one of those two countries in their respective sports....yet Hull takes a load of criticism from Canadians.

And no, I don't think many Canadians realize or respect Hull's rights as a dual citizen. I see a lot of comments about how Hull, "turned his back on his country", speaking as if he is nothing but a Canadian. That is nothing but a blatant lie.

It seems to me that Canadians criticizing Hull are just bitter and jealous to the fact that he does not represent Canada, despite having the right to represent the USA.

I guess we disagree then. Trying out for a team doesn't make him respresent it, but I don't care if he represented Canada before or not. What I see is that Hull wanted to be on Canada and tried out to be on Canada, but he couldn't make it so he "switched sides." I know he has the legal right to do it, but that doesn't change my opinion that it was a crybaby type thing to do.

if Igali would have tried out for Nigeria and not been good enough, it would be the same situation. As is, it's not. The "team" Daniel Igali wanted to be on and tried out for was the Canadian team first and foremost.

I still see it as Hull turning his back on Canada. He made a chocie to try out for Canada, and when he didn't make the cut, he went off to play with another country. Again we will have to agree to disagree whether he turned his back on Canada or not, because that's how I and a lot of other people view it.

I doubt many Canadians are very jealous of USA that they got Hull considering Canada has had their fair share of success without him.

So let's cut the crap and talk about what the real issue is here. Brett Hull was not invited to play for Canada in 1986 at the Canada Cup. He was not deemed good enough. According to your reasoning he should have just worked harder and hoped to get invited to play next time. Which would have been his only choice if he did not have dual citizenship. He had that option and with the preponderance of good Canadian hockey players it only made sense to play for the US. As you yourself said you don't need him or want him so why all this venom about him playing for the US.?

In truth all the hate comes from the fact that Hullie played very well in the 1996 World Cup and was instrumental in the US beating Canada. If he had not been successful as a member of the US team it is doubtful that Canadians would hate on him so.

BTW, he did play for his country in International tournaments but the country he played for was USA, which was just as much his country as Canada.

Once again I'm not pissed that Hull played for team USA instead, but it does make my opinion of Hull a lot worse.

I don't care how successful Hull has been on team USA at all. USA would have beat Canada in 1996 with or without Hull in my opinion. And besides that, when has Hull's play ever stopped Canada from getting anywhere? it's not like he scored a big overtime goal against Canada in a huge gold medal game or anything to make Canadians angry at that.

And if USA was just as much his as Canada, he should have tried out for them right off the bat. He tried out for Canada so he obviously wanted to play on that side first and foremost. I compare it loosely to hanging out with a group of friends over a different group, then having that group tell you they don't want to hang around with you anymore, so you go to your other friends instead.

Obviously we get the picture and understand what rights he had and what he did, but we just completely disagree whether we lose respect for him or not. That's what it all comes down to...

I can't believe how many people are still whining about Brett Hull, despite several well-reasoned posts that totally debunk that viewpoint. Van has set the table in as clear of language as possible and people are still yapping. Get over it!!! :banghead:

It was the 84 Canada Cup. There was no 86 Canada Cup. There were no try-outs. Players were appointed. The NHLPA would not agree to tryout camps. The tem was hand picked by Glen Sather and hull was left off. Hull was not the only dual citizen to play for the US in the 84 Canada Cup. Brian Trottier also played for the Americans after being left off the team by Slats. Trots got to pick his team beacuse as a North American Indian he holds dual citizenship.

Hull was not selected to the team by Sather and Team USA asked him to play. He would be a fool if he turned down the opportunity to play at the Canada Cup simply because Glen Sather selected Rick Middleton or Brain Sutter or Hull.

I say most of the "Canadians" that are angry at Hull are jelous that Glen Sather passed of a young 40 goal man in 84 and cost Canada the opportunity to have Brett Hull on our squad. I see nothing wrong with what Hull did.

Dave

I used to be pissed at Alex Mogilny when he refused to play for Russia. In some ways you except them to play for the motherland. But then after all the bullcrap I have seen happen with the Russian hockey federation this year, I can't blame him or any other player that refuses to play for Russia again.

It was the 84 Canada Cup. There was no 86 Canada Cup. There were no try-outs. Players were appointed. The NHLPA would not agree to tryout camps. The tem was hand picked by Glen Sather and hull was left off. Hull was not the only dual citizen to play for the US in the 84 Canada Cup. Brian Trottier also played for the Americans after being left off the team by Slats. Trots got to pick his team beacuse as a North American Indian he holds dual citizenship.

Hull was not selected to the team by Sather and Team USA asked him to play. He would be a fool if he turned down the opportunity to play at the Canada Cup simply because Glen Sather selected Rick Middleton or Brain Sutter or Hull.

I say most of the "Canadians" that are angry at Hull are jelous that Glen Sather passed of a young 40 goal man in 84 and cost Canada the opportunity to have Brett Hull on our squad. I see nothing wrong with what Hull did.

Dave

"Who was that guy who cut Brett Hull (from Canada's world team) in 1986, anyway?" Gretzky asked wryly.

Here is where I got the info on 1986 Canada Cup, an article from the 1996 World Cup. http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyWorldCup/sep15_world.html

If this is incorrect then at least I tried to get accurate info, I thought I could trust Gretzky...LOL

I never said anything about Hull trying out for Team Canada. I was pretty sure he was never even asked.

This is one of those stupid discussions that goes nowhere. Certain people are going to hang onto their beliefs in spite of whatever evidence is presented. My only hope is to demonstrate that there are two sides to this issue and maybe some who are not so stubborn can see it.

Personally, I have a small problem with Hull, which is based on an assumption, and if my assumption is wrong, then that's okay...I'm not too upset over it.

Where did Hull develop? Did he grow up in the US or Canada? I thought he grew up in Canada, but that's my assumption. And if that's true, then he did turn his back on Canada because Canada theoretically provided the system that made him the hockey player he became. Athletes in general who go through a development system and then bolt to another country (ie. Owen Hargreaves, Greg Rusedski) are pretty annoying if you ask me. I don't get super angry about it, but it's a knock against them in my opinion. Again though, if my assumption is wrong, then my argument doesn't apply to Hull.

And furthermore, I thought Hull was cut by a world championship team when he was a kid, and that's why he chose to go with the US Canada Cup squad...I thought he was loyal to the US because they gave him a chance before he got into the NHL..I'll have to look into that.

My appolgies to all. It was indeed the 86 World Hockey Championship team that Hull was cut from. Over the like of some very poor players. The American's asked him to play he said sure and lead the American team is scoring.

Again my appolgies for critizing for not having my facts straight.

Brett Hull's take on the situation

“Canada got first dibs, but their coach said I was no good. And the U.S. said, ‘We’ll take him.’ And I said, ‘Thank you very much.’ Would you think more of me if I took that opportunity from Team USA in 1986, and then, when I got better, told the Americans to bugger off, I’m playing for Canada? Or would you like me to show my loyalty to the people who gave me a great opportunity and stick with them like I did? I don’t know if I’d be here if it wasn’t for U.S. Hockey.”

Seems pretty cut and dried. As for what system he developed in. The answer woul dbe both. He played Junior A hockey in Penticton, before landing a Scholarship to Minn-Deluth and playing two years of NCAA.

Again, sorry for my previous misinformed rant.
Dave

For the most part, no. I would rather a player decline than whine and complain about ice time,conditions, etc. From what I've noticed on hockey boards, most of the players who have declined have already represented their homeland, some by force.

I would love to see Canada's best play Russia's best(Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Khabi, etc) but with the Russian situation, it won't happen under Tikhonov. I can't blame any of those players for declining.

As for Brett Hull, he did what most people would do, make use of all your options.

Okay to set the record staight about Hull. He did not get an invite from then Coach Dave King for the 1986 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. The reason why is because Canada only picked NHL players at that time just like now. For example Sidney Crosby was not on the team this year. Hull was a College player at that time, a prospect. Would anyone expect Dion Phaneuf or Jeff Carter to be on Team Canada at the Wolrds this year over guys like Heatley? No.

So therefore Hull played for the USA. The next chance he got to play for the USA was in the Canada Cup in 1991. He'd come off an 86-goal Hart Trophy year. Then in 1996 he represented USA again. And to answer someone in an earlier post, he did actually score two goals in game 3 of the World Cup against Canada. One that was illegal however.

Now even though he still plays on Team USA it doesnt matter as much. I still cant stand him, but they lost in '98, '02 and they arent going to get a sniff at this years World Cup we all know that. So it eases the pain a bit from '96. It also feels good to know that Hull is 40 years old and wouldnt be picked to be on Canada now anways.

So in conclusion what he did was turn his back on his country. If his mother wasnt an American he wouldnt have been eligible for dual citizenship. He was born in Belleville, Ontario. And the reason Trottier did that in '84 was so he could give back to the
USA what it had given him. You think Slats wouldnt have picked him back in '84? So both of them are "draft dodgers" in my opinion. But its their loss. USA wasnt a powerhouse in '84 and were lucky to be one in '96. Hull has missed out on a lot more by not joining Canada. Its his loss.

By the way you dont hear Primeau or Kariya trying out for USA just cause they've lived there for a while. That's turning your back on the country that taught you how to play the game that you make millions of dollars for in the first place.

....
I will however say that what Lemieux did to the Penguins in their fans in 2002 was far worse.

I completely disagree with this.

Lemieux has time-in time-out saved that franchise (let me count the ways...). I say good for him for finally putting something he wanted to do ahead of running to the resuce of the Pens again.

The fans owe him for all he's done for them, not the other way around.

....By the way you dont hear Primeau or Kariya trying out for USA just cause they've lived there for a while. That's turning your back on the country that taught you how to play the game that you make millions of dollars for in the first place.

Plus my take on Brett Hull: I applaud him for a word that everyone complains about sports athletes not having...."Loyalty". You go with whoever gave you the chance....I'm sure over 90% here would do the same thing if they were in his shoes at the time.

The arguement about Primeau and Kariya holds no water because they are not dual citizens, plus they have already played for Canada and could not suit up for anyone else even if they wanted to.

Funny how us Canadians didn't mind when Peter Statsny (of Slovakia) played for us in the 1984 Canada Cup.

Lemieux has time-in time-out saved that franchise (let me count the ways...). I say good for him for finally putting something he wanted to do ahead of running to the resuce of the Pens again.

The fans owe him for all he's done for them, not the other way around.



Yes, Lemieux saved the franchise countless times, but what he did in 2002 was disrespectful to the fans that supported him in good times and bad. Everyone knew he didn't want to play for the crappy pens but kept making up excuses. All he had to do was say "I'm not interested in playing for the current collection of players at this time, I'm going to concentrate on international play". I don't blame him for what he did, but just come out and say it.

Ukrainian hockey knows this phrase all too well.

But really, I'd don't lose much respect for a player if a Ukrainian born player decides to go play for Russia. Ukraine has seen many young stars go this route including Nikolai Zherdev and Anton Babchuk. They simply wanted to play with the best, but going to Russia isn't always the best decision. Ukraine showed they could produce some stars in Ukraine which includes the likes of Dmitri Khristich and Stanley Cup Champion, Ruslan Fedotenko.

"Duty" is one hell of a rally term.

Come on people, "your country needs you!" More like, "the hockey team of players from your country could use your services!"

Sounds just as catchy, right?

These guys play an insane schedule against the world's best and most punishing hockey players. If they don't want to play another 10 games, who cares? They don't owe you or their country('s hockey team) anything.

These guys play an insane schedule against the world's best and most punishing hockey players. If they don't want to play another 10 games, who cares? They don't owe you or their country('s hockey team) anything.

well said. Im glad to see some of my Preds on the international stage, but if they want to rest and wait until they get back to Nashville to give it their all, Im dandy with that too.