MLB Trade Deadline Thread.

Anyone heard any possible deals? Kris Benson is rumored to be going to just about anywhere and the Mets are trying to unload Ty Wigginton.

Mets are not trying to unload Wigginton. Where did you hear that from?
They are offering Wigginton and prospect Matt Peterson for Benson but the Bucs like the Twins offer of Restovich and a lower level prospect more. Mets supposedly have given Bucs an option of prospects to chose from.

All I know is that Randy Johnson will probably be dealt. And while they're at the top of the wildcard standings, I wouldn't be surprised to see Boston deal Nomar. Probably for a good, cheap shortstop and something else.

Mets are not trying to unload Wigginton. Where did you hear that from?
They are offering Wigginton and prospect Matt Peterson for Benson but the Bucs like the Twins offer of Restovich and a lower level prospect more. Mets supposedly have given Bucs an option of prospects to chose from.

I heard they wanted playing time for Wright at 3rd so Wigginton was on the way out.

The Mets are interested in Toby Hall and Victor Zambrano.

I heard they wanted playing time for Wright at 3rd so Wigginton was on the way out.
Well they are offering Wigginton in trades to acquire Benson etc however they planned on keeping him if they do not acquire who they target. They plan on using him at first moving Piazza back to catcher for this season and keeping Wiggy as a glorified utility player. They aren't trying to unload him though your train of thought makes sense and that's what we all thought as well but Duquette has said otherwise.

Well I have heard rumors about Benson, Johnson, Delgado, Nomar and Posada.

Not sure how many deals will be made but I would expect at least a couple.

Delgado won't go anywhere. He's already refused to waive his NTC.

Also, I figure the Angels will try and acquire a third baseman, as Glaus won't be able to play 3B, even if he does come back. I could possibly see them get Nomar, and try either him or Eckstein(most likely) at third.

Which prospects will the Yankees overhype and send to Arizona for Randy Johnson?


Arizona has been scouting the Yankee prospects and have just about no interest in any of them.


The guy the D-backs want is Posada, and the Yankees say no. With Posada gone, that ruins the chemestry between the pitchers and whoever the new catcher would be. The cather is typically the field general on the field, and I would have to think that trading Posada for the Unit wouldn't help as much as we all think.

I wish the Yankees would hurry up and get Benson.. I've had him on my fantasy teams for just that eventuality..

One thing I know is that Orlando Cabrera will be trade.

Dodgers are pursuing Johnson

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...ny-sports-print

Delgado won't go anywhere. He's already refused to waive his NTC.

Also, I figure the Angels will try and acquire a third baseman, as Glaus won't be able to play 3B, even if he does come back. I could possibly see them get Nomar, and try either him or Eckstein(most likely) at third.
They have one of the best 3b prospects in baseball and refuse to deal him for RJ or Benson so they are more then likely not looking to acquire a 3bman.

The Brewers today aquired Russell Branyan for future considerations...Anyone have any info on this guy?

He used to be a good prospect with the Indians because of his power but when he is up to bat it seems like he just closes his eyes and swing. He strikes out a ton.

anyone heard something about the tigers finally getting a pitcher? they need to get better in the bullpen in order to reach .500 which would be fantastic.

Terrible Terry Adams was traded a couple nights ago to Boston for a prospect.

Frank Catalanotto and Gregg Zaun are rumoured to be on their way out of town, Florida being the likely destination as the Marlins have apparentely been interested in both for a couple months now.

There was a rumour that Minnesota wanted Miguel Batista from Toronto, JP Ricciardi demanded Canadian slugger Justin Morneau in return. From the current pitching staff, Batista is the most expandable.

They have one of the best 3b prospects in baseball and refuse to deal him for RJ or Benson so they are more then likely not looking to acquire a 3bman.

McPherson is at least a year away as it is. Nomar's, Glaus', and Salmon's contracts are up, so if they did acquire Nomar, they could either let Nomar go and and resign Glaus to play DH, and McPherson for 3B, or Glaus 3B and Salmon DH, or they could sign Nomar to play SS, put Eckstein at 3B or DH, and either keep Glaus at 3B or DH, or let him and Salmon go.

If Anaheim acquires RJ, they probably won't deal Kotchman(as Erstad is getting up there in age) or McPherson(Glaus could leave). It'll probably be Weaver and something else.

Better than what the Yankees can offer.

Arizona has been scouting the Yankee prospects and have just about no interest in any of them.


The guy the D-backs want is Posada, and the Yankees say no. With Posada gone, that ruins the chemestry between the pitchers and whoever the new catcher would be. The cather is typically the field general on the field, and I would have to think that trading Posada for the Unit wouldn't help as much as we all think.

if they said they are not interested in Dionner Navaro they are frikin liars. He's the only top notch prospect in the Yankees farm system, but he's a hell of a player. In my opinion, he's as good if not better than Mathis

The Pirates are only going to trade one guy, or at least are looking to only trade one guy.

Kris Benson, who, after Randy Johnson, who may not even be traded, is the best pitcher on the market by a fairly large margin.

With the way he's pitched the past few months coupled in with his potential the Pirates are looking for an insane package, and there are plenty of teams interested.

Pirates GM David Littlefield is looking for a MLB ready position player and a good prospect, or almost exactly what we got last year for Giles(Jason Bay and Oliver Perez), there likely won't be a third player though like there was in the Giles deal(AAA pitcher Casey Stewart).

Some of these rumors have me salivating.

The Yankees are offering up Navarro, their 2A Switch-hitting Catcher prospect.

.

Navarro is quickly becomming the most overrated prospect in Baseball.

If he wasn't in the paper thin Yankee farm system nobody would know who he is.

I think it's a known fact, any Yankess prospect is instantly overrated.

They have the worst rated farm system in the planet and don't have a single really good prospect. Navarro would be the third rated catching prospect on the Pirates(behind Neil Walker and J.R. House).

It'll probably be Weaver and something else.


I think there's something screwy in the MLB CBA where you can't draft players and trade their rights until you sign them. Or else the Twins would have drafted Mark Prior and traded him for the best offer.

Peter Gammons has been speculating that the Angels are the frontrunner, apparently offering a package revolving around a minor league catcher who the D-backs like.

I think there's something screwy in the MLB CBA where you can't draft players and trade their rights until you sign them. Or else the Twins would have drafted Mark Prior and traded him for the best offer.

.

Correct, teams can not trade drafted players till 1 year after they were drafted. However the player can be a "Player to be named later" till that year is up.

I think the Blue Jays either need to get a contract extension done w/ Delgado before the season is over (w/ a paycut so thye can fill other holes), or trade him. He's great, I love the guy, but he makes too much money for that payroll.
Delgado has said he will not accept a trade to another team. He has a no-trade clause.

Ideally, the Jays would trade him for a couple good prospects and bring him back in the offseason at a reduced price. But it doesn't look like he'll be traded... he may still re-sign.

anyone heard something about the tigers finally getting a pitcher? they need to get better in the bullpen in order to reach .500 which would be fantastic.


The problem zecke is there isn't alot of quality pitchers on the market like years before. The Tigers dont want to trade some of their prospects just to get to .500. DD said last month if they are close to .500 by the deadline they ,might be buyers. But i wouldn't be shocked if they are sellars though. A guy like Jason Johnson could field a decent return.

The Tigers really wont be really to compete for a few more years. When guys like Bonderman and Ledemza mature, Sleeth and Verlander to make it to the pros.

The problem zecke is there isn't alot of quality pitchers on the market like years before. The Tigers dont want to trade some of their prospects just to get to .500. DD said last month if they are close to .500 by the deadline they ,might be buyers. But i wouldn't be shocked if they are sellars though. A guy like Jason Johnson could field a decent return.


true. do you see a chance they might even trade on of their batters for a decent return? someone like young or white maybe? i'm impressed with young guns like thames, logan lately.


The Tigers really wont be really to compete for a few more years. When guys like Bonderman and Ledemza mature, Sleeth and Verlander to make it to the pros.

unfortunately you're right, but still we can hope for better days soon. when i became a fan of the tigers, they were sucking a lot. last season was pretty funny though, especially the end. ;)

tigers with a 6 run 1st inning and the indians had to change the pitcher...sometimes this team is surprising me.

true. do you see a chance they might even trade on of their batters for a decent return? someone like young or white maybe? i'm impressed with young guns like thames, logan lately.


I think if anyone White would fetch the most return. But i would like to see the Tigers keep him. He says he not only wants to stay, but retire a Tiger. Once Higginson is gone, a corner OF spot will open up for Thames or Monroe.


unfortunately you're right, but still we can hope for better days soon. when i became a fan of the tigers, they were sucking a lot. last season was pretty funny though, especially the end. ;)

tigers with a 6 run 1st inning and the indians had to change the pitcher...sometimes this team is surprising me.


This team can hit. If they can get some solid pitching there is no reason why they cant get to .500 without making a deal. The bullpen actually looks like it's coming around.

I think if anyone White would fetch the most return. But i would like to see the Tigers keep him. He says he not only wants to stay, but retire a Tiger. Once Higginson is gone, a corner OF spot will open up for Thames or Monroe.


when will higginson leave? after this season? he's playing poor and is maybe the only one with a bad season.
i have no problem with white but one older batter could leave the tigers via trade without hurting this season's performance.


This team can hit. If they can get some solid pitching there is no reason why they cant get to .500 without making a deal. The bullpen actually looks like it's coming around.

i still believe they get to .500 this season without a trade, but a trade would make things more interesting. but wasting a prospect is not a good way, that's for sure.

if they said they are not interested in Dionner Navaro they are frikin liars. He's the only top notch prospect in the Yankees farm system, but he's a hell of a player. In my opinion, he's as good if not better than Mathis

But they want Posada. Doesn't make a whole lot a sense to trade for 2 catchers.

when will higginson leave? after this season? he's playing poor and is maybe the only one with a bad season.
i have no problem with white but one older batter could leave the tigers via trade without hurting this season's performance..


After next season his contract is finally up. And for what the Tigers have been paying him, he should play for free the rest of his career.

After next season his contract is finally up. And for what the Tigers have been paying him, he should play for free the rest of his career.

hehehe, you should go and tell him. a nice idea. or he should play 20 fantastic games, hitting over .500 and the tigers could trade him to the yankees (or white sox). :)

hehehe, you should go and tell him. a nice idea. or he should play 20 fantastic games, hitting over .500 and the tigers could trade him to the yankees (or white sox). :)



About two year ago they tried to trade him to the Yanks, but he wouldn't waive his NTC.


Speaking of Higgy, he just made a GREAT catch. Thats a Web Gem

About two year ago they tried to trade him to the Yanks, but he wouldn't waive his NTC.


ah...well, then he has to play for free the last 5 years of his career.


Speaking of Higgy, he just made a GREAT catch. Thats a Web Gem

i try to follow the game via mlb.com gameday, but somehow it sucks today. it say top 3rd, but i'm sure the game is somewhere else.
maybe nook logan crashed mlb.com as he was hitting last. :joker:

I think there's something screwy in the MLB CBA where you can't draft players and trade their rights until you sign them. Or else the Twins would have drafted Mark Prior and traded him for the best offer.

Peter Gammons has been speculating that the Angels are the frontrunner, apparently offering a package revolving around a minor league catcher who the D-backs like.

Minor-league catcher? I can't think of who that'd be right now, but since it's not one of Weaver, Kotchman, or McPherson, I'm breathing a little easier. Then again, I probably just brain-farted and this guy is a top baseball prospect.

I'm surprised the DBacks aren't asking for one of these guys, or trying to low-ball the Angels and even just ask for K-Rod. Either way, I hope they get the Big Unit pretty badly. Adding him would give the Angels a legit Ace, and Colon might play better in a lesser role(#3).

Minor-league catcher? I can't think of who that'd be right now, but since it's not one of Weaver, Kotchman, or McPherson, I'm breathing a little easier. Then again, I probably just brain-farted and this guy is a top baseball prospect.

I'm surprised the DBacks aren't asking for one of these guys, or trying to low-ball the Angels and even just ask for K-Rod. Either way, I hope they get the Big Unit pretty badly. Adding him would give the Angels a legit Ace, and Colon might play better in a lesser role(#3).

Most likely Jeff Mathis who could very well be the best catching prospect in baseball now that Mauer is up.

McPherson is at least a year away as it is. Nomar's, Glaus', and Salmon's contracts are up, so if they did acquire Nomar, they could either let Nomar go and and resign Glaus to play DH, and McPherson for 3B, or Glaus 3B and Salmon DH, or they could sign Nomar to play SS, put Eckstein at 3B or DH, and either keep Glaus at 3B or DH, or let him and Salmon go.

If Anaheim acquires RJ, they probably won't deal Kotchman(as Erstad is getting up there in age) or McPherson(Glaus could leave). It'll probably be Weaver and something else.

Better than what the Yankees can offer.
That's not true. McPherson is 23 turning 24 and tearing up AA/AAA after tearing up A+. He is more then ready.

Most likely Jeff Mathis who could very well be the best catching prospect in baseball now that Mauer is up.
Angels already stated they are not trading any of their best prospects however Kotchman is rumored to be offered for Benson.

Most likely Jeff Mathis who could very well be the best catching prospect in baseball now that Mauer is up.
You mean now that Martinez is up right :joker:

That's not true. McPherson is 23 turning 24 and tearing up AA/AAA after tearing up A+. He is more then ready.

That's how much I know about baseball prospects.

Good as Kris Benson is, I'd rather the Angels traded Kotchman in a deal for the Big Unit.


Most likely Jeff Mathis who could very well be the best catching prospect in baseball now that Mauer is up.

Once again, shows how much I know about baseball prospects. With Molina and well, Molina, he's not exactly needed, but will probably be useful once one or both of them leaves.

Angels already stated they are not trading any of their best prospects however Kotchman is rumored to be offered for Benson.

Benson was earlier offered straight up for Kotchman, when Colon was really struggling. Now that he's doing better, it looks doubtful, unless talks heat up with the Rangers.

Apparentley they're only interested in Johnson, a top of the line pitcher. He'd probably waive his NTC to go to the Angels, so I'd put my money for him to go there.

You mean now that Martinez is up right :joker:
Joe Mauer is ten times the player Victor Martinez is.

Joe Mauer is ten times the player Victor Martinez is.
I disagree

I disagree
Well, maybe not ten times the player... but he's easily a better player than Martinez.

Well, maybe not ten times the player... but he's easily a better player than Martinez.
who's on pace for 130 rbis, and considered the best catcher in the american leage?

What are my Blue Jays and Mets up to?
Jays tried to dump Delgado, but he wouldnt waive his ntc. Outside of that, I dont see too many players they would want to trade. Maybe Batista would have some interest, but I dont think they'd like any possible return.

who's on pace for 130 rbis, and considered the best catcher in the american leage?
By who? You?

You're well known for your uber-homerism views on the Indians, so there's no use in conversing with you on this topic.

Martinez is having a career year, Mauer is the best catching prospect to come around in eons.

He may not be 10 times the player, but he has 10 times the potential.

That's my unbiased Pirate fan perspective at least.

The rumor that is heavy out there right now is Benson to Minnesota for Mientkiewicz and something else. Minnesota has a wealth of prospects who they could offer, and the Pirates aren't salary dumping so they can take on Mientkiewicz's contract. Menky isn't having a good year at all, but is a great defensive 1B and has great plate discipline. He has little HR power, but can hit extra base hits, and is a lefty, so he would do well in PNC Park.

This deal hinges on who the prospects involved are. The Twins are notorious for calling people untouchable, but they will have to part with some good players if the Kotchman offer is really out there. Morneau is obviously not going anywhere, Mientkiewicz has been told he will be traded and Morneau is his replacement.

The options here are Cuddyer, a 3B in the majors now I think. Then there's Restovich, a guy with power but he strikes out a good bit. There's Kubel, who the Pirates really like and supposedly could be traded.

I think the deal may shape up as Mientkiewicz, Kubel, and Restovich for Benson plus something else, maybe one of our prospects. That's a whole lot coming Pittsburgh's way, but if this deal is imminent as some suggest, then I bet it's a very good offer because otherwise Littlefield would continue to wait.

This is what I've been able to gather from reading around. There's a report in the Chicago Sun Times that the Twins are on the verge of getting Benson for Mientkiewicz and a prospect, but I don't think the deal will end up happening until the deadline.

Martinez is having a career year, Mauer is the best catching prospect to come around in eons.

He may not be 10 times the player, but he has 10 times the potential.

That's my unbiased Pirate fan perspective at least.

Normally I don't agree with FOTS, but Victor Martinez is having one hell of a year offensively. And this is his first full year in the majors, so I'm not sure how you can already term this a career year.

who's on pace for 130 rbis, and considered the best catcher in the american leage?

By you maybe.

What are my Blue Jays and Mets up to?
Mets interested in Victor Zambrano, Toby Hall, Kris Benson, Scott Sullivan likely they will not get any of them. Best chances are Hall/Zambrano package. If they continue their free fall, it's not impossible they trade away Trax or Leiter (barring NT waiver) for prospects.

Mets interested in Victor Zambrano, Toby Hall, Kris Benson, Scott Sullivan likely they will not get any of them. Best chances are Hall/Zambrano package. If they continue their free fall, it's not impossible they trade away Trax or Leiter (barring NT waiver) for prospects.

They are also interested in Danys Baez.

Devil Ray scouts are scouting Mets minor league pitchers and only pitchers.

who's on pace for 130 rbis, and considered the best catcher in the american leage?
What are their ages?
How often is a rookie said to be the best catcher in any league at the start?
Who had a much greater minor league career - relative to age, who has been much more successfull?
Which player has better tools?

lets compare them using stats off their rookie years
Joe Mauer 20 years old 107 AB
.308 AVG /.369 OBP / .570 SLG /.939 OPS

Victor Martinez 23 years old 156 AB
.289 AVG / .345 OBP / .333 / .678 OPS


And since you do like to project numbers, here's how they project over 500 at bats this season.

Mauer: 20 years old
500 AB
38 2B
28 HR
80 RBI
.308/.369/.570
.939 OPS

Martinez: 25 years old
500 AB
39 3B
26 HR
117 RBI
.308/.377/.545
.922 OPS

what's this? Mauer is putting up comperable numbers to Martinez, 5 years younger, in his first year.

news on the Delgado front

Delgado has said he will re-consider waiving his NTC, but nothing has happened yet.

TSN has said some teams that might be interested, LA, CHicago White Sox, and of course the Yankees with the JG news

Anybody want to comment on their defensive skills?

I'm too lazy to dig up their passed ball ratio, runners caught, and stuff liek that right now.
Mauer was rated one of the best defensive catchers in the minor leagues. Martinez' only flaw is throwing out runners but he is adaquate at that. He's good in every other aspect.

Martinez is having a career year, Mauer is the best catching prospect to come around in eons.

He may not be 10 times the player, but he has 10 times the potential.

That's my unbiased Pirate fan perspective at least.
A career year? Its his first season. Also, I dont see how you can even compare someone who failed to take over a vacated starting job to a potential mvp candidate.

news on the Delgado front

Delgado has said he will re-consider waiving his NTC, but nothing has happened yet.

TSN has said some teams that might be interested, LA, CHicago White Sox, and of course the Yankees with the JG news
No way Delgado goes tot he yanks. The Jays wont deal him within the division. The Yanks would have to offer up Vazquez and A-Rod, and pay like all of A-Rods salary for the Jays to deal him.

What are their ages?
How often is a rookie said to be the best catcher in any league at the start?
Who had a much greater minor league career - relative to age, who has been much more successfull?
Which player has better tools?

lets compare them using stats off their rookie years
Joe Mauer 20 years old 107 AB
.308 AVG /.369 OBP / .570 SLG /.939 OPS

Victor Martinez 23 years old 156 AB
.289 AVG / .345 OBP / .333 / .678 OPS


And since you do like to project numbers, here's how they project over 500 at bats this season.

Mauer: 20 years old
500 AB
38 2B
28 HR
80 RBI
.308/.369/.570
.939 OPS

Martinez: 25 years old
500 AB
39 3B
26 HR
117 RBI
.308/.377/.545
.922 OPS

what's this? Mauer is putting up comperable numbers to Martinez, 5 years younger, in his first year.
He's projected to put up 40 fewer rbis in 500 abs. I really dont see how you can compare them. Wait until Mauer has actually done something. He could be a great catcher, but Martinez is clearly better than Mauer right now. Another thing, its not like Martinez has played 20 games and is on pace for this. He has already achieved 60% of his projected total.

No way Delgado goes tot he yanks. The Jays wont deal him within the division. The Yanks would have to offer up Vazquez and A-Rod, and pay like all of A-Rods salary for the Jays to deal him.

right... Carlos is a FA after this season, all the jays would get is 1-3 prospects and with this talk about Randy Johnson to the Yankees expect those prospects to go the D'backs.

Delgado would just be a rental to them anyway until they really know whats going on with Giambi.

The Jays and The Yankees have dealt in the past (Clemens for Wells, Mondesi for a minor leaguer, etc, etc.)

besides if Giambi comes back then Delgado will just leaves the yankees for FA, Delgado and Giambi both want to play 1B everyday so thats why Delgado won't sign with NYY

No way Delgado goes tot he yanks. The Jays wont deal him within the division. The Yanks would have to offer up Vazquez and A-Rod, and pay like all of A-Rods salary for the Jays to deal him.
the yankees won't trade for delgado because he won't stand up for the singing of god bless america. mr steinbrenner would never allow that to go on. (i'm not saying delgado is wrong but this is a case where steinbrenner would make an ass out of himself) you have to question a guy that is 33 has never been to the playoffs and does not want to be traded to a contender. (dodgers,Red Sox, Marlins)

the jays would deal him in the division they have dealt top stars in the division before and would do it again. the yankees would not deal for this player. a-rod does still have a no trade clause and the yankees would never deal him and teams would never ask for him. the yankees have three healthy starters right now why would they deal one of them? if the yankees were going to trade vazquez and a-rod in a deal and pay all of there contracts i bet they can get a ton more from teams than delgado. thats just my guess.

a potential mvp candidate.

Oh My, And the hits just keep on coming! :eek:

A career year? Its his first season. Also, I dont see how you can even compare someone who failed to take over a vacated starting job to a potential mvp candidate.
I don't really want to get involved in this debate because I haven't seen a lot of either Mauer or Martinez, but I would like to throw a name out there, it was the first thing that came to mind actually (I'm not comparing any players though......).

Joe Charboneau.

who's on pace for 130 rbis, and considered the best catcher in the american leage?

i dunno about you but id take pudge over any other catcher in the MLB this year, and in most

Just off the top of my head, I'd take both Pudge and Posada over Martinez.

Anybody want to comment on their defensive skills?

I'm too lazy to dig up their passed ball ratio, runners caught, and stuff liek that right now.

Martinez is solid defensively, but Mauer's arm is amazing.

the yankees won't trade for delgado because he won't stand up for the singing of god bless america. mr steinbrenner would never allow that to go on. (i'm not saying delgado is wrong but this is a case where steinbrenner would make an ass out of himself) you have to question a guy that is 33 has never been to the playoffs and does not want to be traded to a contender. (dodgers,Red Sox, Marlins)

the jays would deal him in the division they have dealt top stars in the division before and would do it again. the yankees would not deal for this player. a-rod does still have a no trade clause and the yankees would never deal him and teams would never ask for him. the yankees have three healthy starters right now why would they deal one of them? if the yankees were going to trade vazquez and a-rod in a deal and pay all of there contracts i bet they can get a ton more from teams than delgado. thats just my guess.
You don't have to worry about Delgado in a Yankees uniform. He's made it clear that he doesn't want to be traded by not waiving his NTC. And after last weekends events, I know Delgado doesn't want to play in New York.

I'm having doubt whether he wants to even play in the USA.

Mondesi for anything was probably one of the best deals Ricciardi has EVER made. Got a bloated salary off the payroll, and giving it to somebody else in the division.

Also, if Delgado does go to the Yanks, I think the Yanks would resign him, and let either him or Giambi DH.

well the Mondesi deal wasn't as clear cut as that
when the jays traded him to the yanks the jays were paying the half of his contract for those 2 years left by the time he went to D'backs, the jays and yanks were paying at 3/4 of his remaining contract

and having Delgado or Giambi as DH won't happen, both of them want to play 1B everyday

great anyone big name ends up with the Spankies, I will forever stop watching baseball. It's a travishamocracy what they are doing.

You don't have to worry about Delgado in a Yankees uniform. He's made it clear that he doesn't want to be traded by not waiving his NTC. And after last weekends events, I know Delgado doesn't want to play in New York.

I'm having doubt whether he wants to even play in the USA.
i was at the day game last thursday and he didn't get booed by more than a few thousand people. look i don't want the guy and i respect his choice not to stand for god bless america but he was not disrespected by the media or fans. (ny post doesn't count) :)


i hope he is happy playing for a team that finishes in third place every year of his career to some guys winning isn't important. what would happen if toronto managment gets so pissed they can't move him they don't even offer him a contract? he should go out to LA and play for the dodgers. I read he loves shawn green and its only a for a few months. The 19000 fans that go to skydome should be booing this guy. Underproductive and won't move to help the team. what a shame

great anyone big name ends up with the Spankies, I will forever stop watching baseball. It's a travishamocracy what they are doing.
what are they doing? the real travisty is a team spending a 130 million dollars and fighting for a playoffs spot. the yankees operate under the same rules as every other team. the yankees make the other owners a lot of money. its not that yankees fault randy johnson will only accept a trade to one team. this is nuts.

what are they doing? the real travisty is a team spending a 130 million dollars and fighting for a playoffs spot. the yankees operate under the same rules as every other team. the yankees make the other owners a lot of money. its not that yankees fault randy johnson will only accept a trade to one team. this is nuts.

My god....would you give it up already...

My god....would you give it up already...
give up what? isn't a team that spends a 130 million dollars and fighting for a playoff spot a disapointment? why don't you tell every fan that trashes the yankees to give it up.

give up what? isn't a team that spends a 130 million dollars and fighting for a playoff spot a disapointment? why don't you tell every fan that trashes the yankees to give it up.

Give up bringing the Red sox into nearly every single thread :shakehead

Couple articles have mentioned that the Padres are exploring a couple deals. The main one is regarding Steve Finley. Apparently the D-backs will be working feverishly with the Dodgers and Padres on a deal before Saturday. I think Finley has said before that he wants to play CF, but I'm not sure if that would prevent him from waiving his NTC.

Then in a new bit of info, the Padres and Red Sox apparently are talking. Padres would receive Derek Lowe, and the BoSox would pick up OF Jay Payton and middle reliever Jay Witasick.

Despite Lowe's downyear, most Padres fans would not be sad to see Payton go. Payton is signed through next year at 3.5 million I believe, while Witasick and Lowe are FAs after this season. Not sure what the Red Sox's motivation would be out of the trade, but the writer mentioned Theo Epstein wanting to change around the culture of the clubhouse.

It's looking like the Pirates and Twins won't be trading, a much different story than when the deal was imminant only 24 hours ago.

The Pirates don't want either player the Twins were offering(Doug Mientkiewicz and Michael Restovich) and the Twins are unwilling to offer what the Pirates want(Cuddyer and a AAA outfielder whose name slips me right now).

They're still in the race though. The Angels, Rangers, an Braves are reportedly very interested as well, though I don't see the Braves being real players. The Twins, Angels, and Rangers all have what the Pirates want(young MLB ready position players like Casey Kotchman and Laynce Nix).

what are they doing? the real travisty is a team spending a 130 million dollars and fighting for a playoffs spot. the yankees operate under the same rules as every other team. the yankees make the other owners a lot of money. its not that yankees fault randy johnson will only accept a trade to one team. this is nuts.

I fail to see anything the Yankees do helping the Pirates in any way, shape, or form.

I mean, besides taking Enrique Wilson off of us.

He's projected to put up 40 fewer rbis in 500 abs. I really dont see how you can compare them. Wait until Mauer has actually done something. He could be a great catcher, but Martinez is clearly better than Mauer right now. Another thing, its not like Martinez has played 20 games and is on pace for this. He has already achieved 60% of his projected total.
It's a damn shame people like you have to act so idiotic because of who you root for. You take AWAY from Victor Martinez who is a very good catcher in his own right but not on the level of Mauer and that is so blatently obvious. I have read your posts and many of them leave me wondering if you are for real. This one seals it for me, your antics are for show. You are a proud homer but someone I can not respect and it's people like you that give teams bad representation. You can not acknowledge other accomplishments, other talent, you can not accept being second. What is really a shame is you are capable of expressing these overly subjective opinions that have no credability at all and in doing so you hurt what you try to defend. It's time to place you on my ignore list.

Mets or Rangers are going afer Victor Zambrano and whoever gets him I feel sorry for. I like the guy and hes got good stuff, but good lord does he LOVE full counts. In the game against the Yankees last week he looked good, but he still threw 100 pitches in about 6 innings of work. He walks a lot of batters and hits batters (he is 1st in walks). Some games he can pitch himself out of the jams he gets himself in, other games he gets rocked because he cant. I havent heard anything about the Mets wanting Hall in the Tampa papers. :dunno:

The Mets were going after Zambrano but talks with the Mets are dead. They offered 2 prospects (one AAA one AA) and cash but were turned down.

They are still interested in Danys Baez and Toby Hall...

The Rangers are interested in Zambrano and are offering prospects and cash.

Well aftering once again not being able to win a series against the Expos' I'd be shocked if they acquired anyone significant this trade deadline.

Give up bringing the Red sox into nearly every single thread :shakehead
people bring up the yankees unfairly at least my points are fair. the red sox do have a huge payroll and have underachieved.

I fail to see anything the Yankees do helping the Pirates in any way, shape, or form.

I mean, besides taking Enrique Wilson off of us.
um revenue sharing? how about major league merchandising. that pie is split 30 ways and i doubt the pirates sell as much merchandise as the yankees infact no team in baseball does. i don't think the pirates organization or fans would complain if the yankees came to town and sold out 3 nights like they do almost everywhere they go.

people bring up the yankees unfairly at least my points are fair. the red sox do have a huge payroll and have underachieved.

But what does that have to do with anything now?

It's looking like the Pirates and Twins won't be trading, a much different story than when the deal was imminant only 24 hours ago.

The Pirates don't want either player the Twins were offering(Doug Mientkiewicz and Michael Restovich) and the Twins are unwilling to offer what the Pirates want(Cuddyer and a AAA outfielder whose name slips me right now).

They're still in the race though. The Angels, Rangers, an Braves are reportedly very interested as well, though I don't see the Braves being real players. The Twins, Angels, and Rangers all have what the Pirates want(young MLB ready position players like Casey Kotchman and Laynce Nix).

Hart isnt gonna trade Nix for a rent-a-player. Mench possibly, but not Nix.

Hart isnt gonna trade Nix for a rent-a-player. Mench possibly, but not Nix.
he traded Sexson for one. Well, I guess Wickman wasnt much of a rental, but bere sure as hell was.

Hart isnt gonna trade Nix for a rent-a-player. Mench possibly, but not Nix.

What is to say Benson is a rent-a-player?

Just because he is a free agent doesn't mean whoever trades for him won't sign him. The last Pirates pitcher in this situation was Jason Schmidt. San Francisco traded for the free agent to be and snagged him up to a multi-year contract shortly after. Granted the market for Schmidt was nothing like the market for Benson is(plus injuries didn't exactly help the Pirates end of things, both of their players they got in return got injured in their second games and neither has been effective since, Armando Rios hasn't done anything in the majors since and Ryan Vogelsong has had a long recovery and hasn't exactly been good since coming back).

Benson should come at a fairly reasonable price, I see no reason why a team like Texas wouldn't offer him a contract.

Mench isn't a guy to build a trade around, he's no better than alot of players we have.

Considering Benson is fairly easily the best pitcher in a seller's market(remember Randy Johnson will only go to the Yankees and the Diamondbacks aren't interested in trading with New York), the return will be good.

Considering all the teams in the race(now it looks like LA has entered the race as well puting the number of teams serious in Benson at 5) someone will offer a deal that Littlefield won't be able to pass up.

What is to say Benson is a rent-a-player?

Just because he is a free agent doesn't mean whoever trades for him won't sign him.

Benson should come at a fairly reasonable price, I see no reason why a team like Texas wouldn't offer him a contract.

Mench isn't a guy to build a trade around, he's no better than alot of players we have.

You mean wont try to sign him..he is potentially a rent-a-player....and why isnt Mench a guy to build a trade around? He's got 30HR potential(he has 14 this year and isnt playing everyday)

he traded Sexson for one. Well, I guess Wickman wasnt much of a rental, but bere sure as hell was.

Let's not forget, Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon.

When guys like Casey Kotchman are being thrown around as possibilties, you don't go for the one dimensional guy hitting .264. He's no better at the plate than guys like Rob Mackowiak but lacks the versatility. Considering Mench is a right fielder and that's where Mackowiak gets the bulk of his playing time that's something you have to consider.

Don't expect to get Benson for cheap. He may be a potential Rent-A-Player, but the team trading for him knows the risk involved and the Pirates sure as hell don't care if he signs with the team he's traded to or not, it's not going to affect who they're going to ask for.

Let's not forget, Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon.
Although those deals really, really suck, its hard toa rgue that he's not one of the top 4 or 5 gms in the game. Look what he did with that team. I guess he's the Buck Showalter of gms, greta builder, but doesnt know quite what to do once he gets there. perfect fit I guess lol. Anywyas, I have been very critical of Shapiro in the past, but he has to be considered one of the best up and coming gms around. Other than Epstein, I'm not too aware of other young guys. Wait, Depodesta, of those 3, I think its safe to say all 3 will have very successful careers.

Let's not forget, Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon.

HAH!

Oh the memories. Talk about the ultimate trade for "need."

The Indians needed a lefty reliever so they offered a young outfielder who had 16 homers as a back-up with gigantic potential.

Rincon is still a damn good lefty reliever, but still, that is one of the most lop-sided trades in recent memory.

That is the lone bright spot in Cam Bonifay's reign of terror as Pirate's GM.

When guys like Casey Kotchman are being thrown around as possibilties, you don't go for the one dimensional guy hitting .264. He's no better at the plate than guys like Rob Mackowiak but lacks the versatility. Considering Mench is a right fielder and that's where Mackowiak gets the bulk of his playing time that's something you have to consider.

Don't expect to get Benson for cheap. He may be a potential Rent-A-Player, but the team trading for him knows the risk involved and the Pirates sure as hell don't care if he signs with the team he's traded to or not, it's not going to affect who they're going to ask for.

first..Mench plays both LF and RF..so thats a small bit of versatility..and obviously Mench wouldnt be the only one involved....theyd probably offer up Nivar(AAA CF who should be in the big leagues but is blocked by Nix, leadoff-type guy) and probably a minor league pitcher..should definately be interesting that the Pirates get. Not to mention the fact that the Rangers arent really built too win now...I really dont think Hart will sacrifice someone like Nix for a guy like Benson, who may only be here 2 months and isnt a sure fire bet to get the team to the playoffs, much less make a serious run

Fair enough, both sides are going to have their own thoughts on the issue and the odds of both of us being happy when and if a trade goes down is slim.

Giving Littlefield's track record we're either going to be the raper or the rapee. He hasn't had a single noteworthy trade that has ended up being fair.

He got 2/5 of our starting rotation(Kip Wells and Josh Fogg) along with Sean Lowe for the overrated Todd Ritchie. Wells is now our #1 starter(not statistically but rotation-wise) and Fogg our #4 starter while Lowe was released a couple months later. Ritchie struggled in his only season with the White Sox and has bounced around with a couple teams since then.

He's traded Jason Schmidt and John Vander Wal to San Francisco for Ryan Vogelsong and Armando Rios. Schmidt was an impending free agent who never lived up to his expectations in Pittsburgh(though I was defiant about trading him, the way he was pitching I could tell he was going to turn things around...I hate it when I'm right) and Vander Wal was an aging, declining outfielder who would have been of more use to another team than us. Vander Wal never did much of anything for San Francisco but Jason Schmidt is arguably the best pitcher in baseball today. Ryan Vogelsong had Tommy John surgery after only his second game as a Pirate and hasn't been the same since. Rios tore a tendon in his second game as a Pirate and never was effective since.

He's traded Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton for Matt Bruback, Jose Hernandez, and Bobby Hill. There are trades that turn out to be bad for reasons generally out of your control(if Vogelsong never was injured would that trade have been quite as bad as it turned out to be?) but then there are trades that are just laughable from the second they go down. Ramirez was a power hitting young third baseman who, although struggling, was still the second best bat in the system after Brian Giles. Lofton was our clubhouse leader and was doing a terrific job as our leadoff hitter. Bruback was lost to waivers only 3 days after the trade, Hernandez was simply a stopgap for Ramirez at third, and Hill was an underachieving second baseman. While no Pirate fan will say a bad thing about Bobby Hill, he was essentially traded for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton and that never helps win over fans, his fault or not.

And then he comes back and trades Brian Giles to San Diego for Oliver Perez, Jason Bay, and Corey Stewart. Giles was one of the better outfielders in the game and had long been one of, if not the most underrated players in the game but with the Pirates running in neutral for years and no real light in sight the Pirates felt it best to part with the 32 year old since he'd be on the downside of his career by the time he'd be part of a contender here. San Diego was moving into a new ballpark and was looking for a star to add to their roster and Giles was a San Diego native. The Pirates were asking for so much for Giles that no one came close to completing a trade by the deadline and the trade didn't go down until three weeks after the trading deadline had past, the trade only happened thanks to the Padres having the first waiver claim. While Giles has been far from bad in San Diego he hasn't lived up to his potential either. Meanwhile Oliver Perez, or "The Mexican Randy Johnson" has turned himself from a flamethrower with no control into a legitimate staff ace in only one year, and he's still only 22. Perez has a 3.03 ERA this year and leads all NL starters in strikeouts per 9 innings(yes, better than Randy Johnson). Bay has struggled with injuries since the trade, but regardless of having to sit out all of April and multiple stretches throughout the season he's still the leading candidate for NL Rookie-of-the-Year with a .313 average, 13 homers, and 44 RBIs in only 195 at bats. Stewart is one of our best pitchers in AAA. He'll never come close to the success of Perez or Bay, he's likely to be a good fourth or fifth starter. The light is now starting to shine bright for the Pirates, who are only 7 games out of the Wild Card, but this light doesn't exist without this trade happening.

Just to name a few...

he traded Sexson for one. Well, I guess Wickman wasnt much of a rental, but bere sure as hell was.

Cleveland was contending for several years when they dealt Sexson I believe. Not sure he wants to take the same trade demeanor with the Rangers right now.

Cleveland was contending for several years when they dealt Sexson I believe. Not sure he wants to take the same trade demeanor with the Rangers right now.

He better not....they spent all of last year really stockpiling young players....better not abandon the plan just because the team is overachieving a little this year.

Don't expect to get Benson for cheap. He may be a potential Rent-A-Player, but the team trading for him knows the risk involved and the Pirates sure as hell don't care if he signs with the team he's traded to or not, it's not going to affect who they're going to ask for.

True, but we shouldn't get our hopes up for another Giles trade. Benson is still essentially a rent-a-player, with more questions about him than Giles had, so he won't command as much. If a team with money trades for him, they might give up more, but if he went to Minnesota, I don't know what they've been willing to give up.

With that said, the latest rumor is a three way trade between Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Boston, that got nixed by Boston, apparently.

To PGH: Kevin Youkilis
To MIN: Kris Benson
To BOS: Doug Mienkiewicz

Youkilis doesn't have a lot of power, but has a great OBP. I don't think that would be the entire deal, I think Restovich or at least someone else would be coming from Minnesota our way.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12527865&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478568&rfi=6

There's where I got it from, and Perrotto is very reliable. The rumor with additional prospects come from the ever so reliable New York Post:

http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/25761.htm


I think the "rumor" itself was going around, because it makes sense. I don't expect Minnesota or Boston to do it though.

I think the holdup remains to be Kubel. He is the guy that the Pirates want the most, and I would be happy if we got just him. I'd take Mienkiewicz to get him, because Doug M has good plate discipline and I think his numbers will go back up next year, plus he would do well in PNC Park because he's a lefty who can hit line drvie extra base hits.

If we were able to end up with Kubel and Youkilis, then I'd have to say that Littlefield did a fantastic job milking Benson for all he's worth. I hate getting my hopes up, because that seems to be a whole lot for just Benson.

Met GM Jim Duquette on ESPN Radio earlier said they have had few talks with Tampa and would not consider trading any blue chip prospects unless it is a special circumstance (he said it to deny reports he'd be trading Kazmir to Tampa or Pittsburgh). Also said the media has been late with some reports and they have taken a life of their own.

To PGH: Kevin Youkilis
To MIN: Kris Benson
To BOS: Doug Mienkiewicz

If that offer is true then Boston did the right thing. Mientkiewicz doesn't have anything near the trade value of Youkilis.

Minnesota comes out like bandits.

If that offer is true then Boston did the right thing. Mientkiewicz doesn't have anything near the trade value of Youkilis.

Minnesota comes out like bandits.
Why, because he's a prospect?

Mientkiewicz is a fine ball player, Youkilis is a slightly above average prospect.

Apparently it was reported on ESPN that a deal between the Pirates and Twins was done yesterday, but the Braves jumped into the mix and everything was halted. No names given, but it obviously involves Benson.

I just read this on another MB, did anyone happen to catch this?

And for the record, I'd be thrilled to death if we were able to get something like both Kubel and Mhvkljhzxjkgbhkl;zhg in a trade, because it shores up two holes on the team. If Minnesota needs us to take Mlknhlksnhlgnldg's salary for them to get Benson, and maybe for us to throw in one of our pitching prospects (not VanBenschoten) to get it done, I would do it.

Mlsh;lhdn;lzbhklzn = the easy way to type Mientkiewicz.

Apparently it was reported on ESPN that a deal between the Pirates and Twins was done yesterday, but the Braves jumped into the mix and everything was halted. No names given, but it obviously involves Benson.


I read an ESPN article that the Braves were lying in the weeds for Benson. Good old anonymous source said that John Scherholz (sp) is rather good with not having the press knowing about him wanting a player and/or not knowing what he is giving up.

Guys I agree Mauer is the best catcher prospect they're a lot of very very good prospect catcher I read from somewehere that they're two very good prospect catcher , Suzuki ? ( I think he won the Johny Bench Award) and Erick San Pedro ? (this guy is a good batter but he's very good catchet too he don't let guys steals so easilly and he has good communication with the pitcher from what I've read , he was the finalist for the Johny Bench award.)

Can you give me other information on these two guys or on other good catcher prospect ?

Btw I saw espn this morning and they said that Johnson ask the Diamon Backs to trade him today ,he wants to go with the Yankees not elsewere because he has a non trade clause.

The player that I think will be dealt : Benson,Garciappara,Cabrera,Randy Johnson.

update from Gammons late tonight

pretty much gaurantees Benson is going to the Mets with the help of the chisox and this deal is expected to be completed tomorrow

Wiggy, Peterson, prospect from the Chisox to the bucs, didn't comment on what chisox will be getting but they want to keep Benson away from the Mets

this is similar to the deal between the chisox, yanks and spos to keep colon away from Boston

Benson to the Mets now seems imminent. Peter Gammons reports that a deal will probably be done tonight and announced tommorow, a 3-way with the White Sox, who do not want the Twins to get Benson.

Pirates would get Wigginton, Peterson (AA pitching prospect, pretty good), NY Gets Benson, Chicago sends a prospect to NY who then sends it to Pittsburgh. If the Chicago prospect was Borchard, I like the deal for Pittsburgh.

Edit: beat me by a minute!

As I said at the Penguins board...I don't like it.

Wiggington is fine, but considering the lines of guys that we were supposedly chasing it's like settling for the fat chick in a room of supermodels. Peterson kills me though. Another pitching prospect. Good ****ing lord does Littlefield know you can only use so many pitchers at once?

On a team with a horrible MLB offense and absolutely nothing in the system we add another pitching prospect? Never mind that we have some of the best young arms in the game with VanBenschoeten, Bullington, Duke, Snell, Maholm, Stewart, and a miriad of others with the potential to be regulars in the rotation...plus Oliver Perez is only 22 and Sean Burnett 21, both are already in the rotation.

YOU NEED OFFENSE TO WIN GAMES! It doesn't matter how good a pitcher pitches, if you don't score you can't win(see the Braves 1-0 win a couple days ago, 5 hits allowed with 10 strikeouts by Perez in 8.1 innings and he still got the L).

As I said at the Penguins board...I don't like it.

Wiggington is fine, but considering the lines of guys that we were supposedly chasing it's like settling for the fat chick in a room of supermodels. Peterson kills me though. Another pitching prospect. Good ****ing lord does Littlefield know you can only use so many pitchers at once?

On a team with a horrible MLB offense and absolutely nothing in the system we add another pitching prospect? Never mind that we have some of the best young arms in the game with VanBenschoeten, Bullington, Duke, Snell, Maholm, Stewart, and a miriad of others with the potential to be regulars in the rotation...plus Oliver Perez is only 22 and Sean Burnett 21, both are already in the rotation.

YOU NEED OFFENSE TO WIN GAMES! It doesn't matter how good a pitcher pitches, if you don't score you can't win(see the Braves 1-0 win a couple days ago, 5 hits allowed with 10 strikeouts by Perez in 8.1 innings and he still got the L).

Thing is, you can ask for guys like Nix and Morneau all you want, but if there isnt a team willing to give that player up, then you have to settle for the 'fat chick'.

How are the Astros not selling off. I know Mclane wants to ride this out since it'd be a big hit to the franchise if we started selling off, but it'll be an even bigger hit when we become sh*t for 5 years because we decided to ride out the underacheivers to save face. Get some talent to help in a year or two, since we certainly aren't going to win this year.

As I said at the Penguins board...I don't like it.

Wiggington is fine, but considering the lines of guys that we were supposedly chasing it's like settling for the fat chick in a room of supermodels. Peterson kills me though. Another pitching prospect. Good ****ing lord does Littlefield know you can only use so many pitchers at once?


It's all about acquiring assets. Whenever somebody lists the great line of prospects any franchise has, more than likely most of those players won't reach their supposed potential.

Using Billy Beane as an example, he traded Carlos Pena and Jeremy Bonderman for Jeff Weaver. Then dealt Weaver for Ted Lilly, Jason Arnold, and John Ford-Griffin. Then the latter two for Erubiel Durazo. Then dealt Lilly for Bobby Kielty. All that happened within a year and a half.

If the Chicago prospect was Borchard, I like the deal for Pittsburgh.


I would doubt it's Borchard, he's about the only thing left in the White Sox's system. I'd assume it'd be something minor, but I could be wrong.

Jason Stark reporting several new rumors. The most interesting one being a three way deal between LA, Arizona, and Florida.

It would involve Florida giving up Brad Penny........which I don't quite understand. Dodgers seem to make out like bandits aside from creating a hole at catcher.

From article:

L.A. gets Finley from Arizona, Jeff Conine from Florida and a starting pitcher (most likely Brad Penny).

Florida gets Danny Bautista and Brent Mayne from Arizona, plus a reliever from L.A.

Arizona gets Paul Lo Duca and Jayson Werth from the Dodgers.

As I said at the Penguins board...I don't like it.

Wiggington is fine, but considering the lines of guys that we were supposedly chasing it's like settling for the fat chick in a room of supermodels. Peterson kills me though. Another pitching prospect. Good ****ing lord does Littlefield know you can only use so many pitchers at once?

On a team with a horrible MLB offense and absolutely nothing in the system we add another pitching prospect? Never mind that we have some of the best young arms in the game with VanBenschoeten, Bullington, Duke, Snell, Maholm, Stewart, and a miriad of others with the potential to be regulars in the rotation...plus Oliver Perez is only 22 and Sean Burnett 21, both are already in the rotation.

YOU NEED OFFENSE TO WIN GAMES! It doesn't matter how good a pitcher pitches, if you don't score you can't win(see the Braves 1-0 win a couple days ago, 5 hits allowed with 10 strikeouts by Perez in 8.1 innings and he still got the L).I agree with you. Add to that Peterson does not have front line upside. Kotchman most certainly would be my pick if I were the Pirates but I guess they prefer quantity because they do make out good in that respect.

I would doubt it's Borchard, he's about the only thing left in the White Sox's system. I'd assume it'd be something minor, but I could be wrong.

According to the Daily Herald, the rumor has Floyd going to the Sox from the Mets and the Pirates getting class A prospect Ryan Sweeney. From the little I read, a Sox fan said that there was talk of him sticking with the Sox this year as a 19 year old. He seems like a pretty good prospect, they say their second best. Here's a report on him:

Age: 19. B-T: L-L. Ht.: 6-5. Wt.: 205.
Drafted: HS—Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 2003 (2nd round).
Signed by: Nathan Durst.

Background: Sweeney had a chance to become Iowa’s first high school first-rounder, but a lackluster predraft showcase dropped him to the second round. Scouted as both a pitcher and hitter, he signed for $785,000. Because he had college basketball potential, the White Sox were able to spread his bonus over five years. Sweeney hit .327 in Rookie ball and drew rave reviews in instructional league.

Strengths: Sweeney is a competitor in an ultra-athletic package. He’s considered a pure hitter with gap power, in the mold of John Olerud. He has great plate coverage and surprisingly good plate discipline for such a raw talent. He has a plus arm, showing an 88-92 mph fastball and promising curveball last spring, and is suited for right field.

Weaknesses: Having put on 15 pounds of muscle, Sweeney looks like a power hitter but has yet to become one with a wood bat. He sometimes appears too pull-conscious. His fielding skills are raw.

The Future: The consensus is that he has slightly more offensive upside than 2003 first-rounder Brian Anderson. With his strong debut, Sweeney showed that he’s ready for low Class A this year.


Seems decent enough. Minnesota isn't going to give up anyone they have rights to it seems, Texas has made it clear that they won't trade Nix anywhere, and Anaheim/Kotchman rumors have faded away, as have the Phillies rumors.

There is a rumor in the PGH Post Pazette that has the Braves possibly sending P Jose Capellan AND 3B Andy Marte. If this was true, I'd have to think Littlefield would have been all over this. A 3B with good power and upside and a fantastic pitching prospect who'd only be behind Perez with us.

I'd settle for either one of those straight up. But getting a cheap, useful player in Wigginton, and also getting a good AA pitching prospect and a little bit of a young, raw talented outfielder may be about the best that is out there for Benson.

The rumor involving the Mets and the Sox might just be something of a ploy to get their divisional opponents, the Braves and the Twins to cough up a little more.

Jason Stark reporting several new rumors. The most interesting one being a three way deal between LA, Arizona, and Florida.

It would involve Florida giving up Brad Penny........which I don't quite understand. Dodgers seem to make out like bandits aside from creating a hole at catcher.

From article:

L.A. gets Finley from Arizona, Jeff Conine from Florida and a starting pitcher (most likely Brad Penny).

Florida gets Danny Bautista and Brent Mayne from Arizona, plus a reliever from L.A.

Arizona gets Paul Lo Duca and Jayson Werth from the Dodgers.

The following is the deal Stark is reporting at the moment in the article I read a few minutes ago...a variation of yours:

L.A. gets Finley from Arizona, and Brad Penny and Hee Seop Choi from Florida.


Florida gets Guillermo Mota, Paul Lo Duca and Juan Encarnacion from L.A.


Arizona gets Jayson Werth from the Dodgers, and prospects from the Marlins.

Again, LA makes out like bandits and unless they think Mota is ready to be a closer on a playoff team without ever having closed before, the Marlins don't do so well I'd say.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1849004

If you're an insider at espn.com, you may be ahead of me on this one.

I'm a little weary about trading Mota and Lo Duca. Those two have been great for the Dodgers. Esp. Lo Duca. IMO, he's the heart and soul of the Dodgers. He's their leader. I think chemistry has a lot to do with their success thus far. I hope they find a way to NOT include Lo Duca in the trade. However, I know you have to give up something in order to get something and Brad Penny is a good young pitcher. He could be instrumental in the future, for sure. Dodgers need a starting pitcher badly, esp. since Nomo is out and not the Nomo of old.

I cant see Depodesta trading Lo Duca, he doesnt strike out, and he gets on base a lot. He's like the exact type of player Depodesta jerks off to at night. Make no mistake though, defence makes up less than 5% of the game, and Depodesta wont waste a dime on defence, he would put anybody behind the plate.

BREAKING NEWS:

Dodgers trade Lo Duca, Encarnacion, Mota to Marlins for Penny, Choi and prospect Murphy

TSN's Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Kris Benson has been dealt to the Mets for Ty Wigginton, Matt Peterson and another prospect.

MLB BLOCKBUSTERS GALORE: 3 HUGE MLB trades just went down

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

didn't catch all of it, help fill in the blanks


1. 3 way AZ-LA-FLA
LA: PENNY, CHOI
FLA: MOTA, LODUCA
AZ: ???????/


2. METS - PITT
METS: Benson, 2 prospects
PITT: Wiggy, Peterson,?????


3. METS - TAMPA
METS: ZAMBRANO
TAMPA: ????????


CONGRATS TO TAMPA FOR FLEECING THE METS

Kazmir to tampa

Peterson, Huber, Kazmir, Diaz 4 top 10 Met prospect - 3 TOP 100 MLB prospects traded by the Mets in one day, this is SICKENING.

damn, I was hoping the Dodgers could find a way to keep Lo Duca.
Now we need to find another catcher.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

We gave away two prospects too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just when optimism is finally coming back to the Pirates, we get screwed like this. This is unbelievable. This trade better change when it is officially announced, otherwise there is going to be a bad backlash.

We should have just kept Benson and took the picks if we have to give up two prospects. The rumor is that one of them is Keppinger, a AA second baseman who hits well.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

We gave away two prospects too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just when optimism is finally coming back to the Pirates, we get screwed like this. This is unbelievable. This trade better change when it is officially announced, otherwise there is going to be a bad backlash.

We should have just kept Benson and took the picks if we have to give up two prospects. The rumor is that one of them is Keppinger, a AA second baseman who hits well.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:Don't fret

Mets traded you one above average prospect in Peterson and a good prospect from KC

Yeah, it's Baustista who we shouldn't have lost in the first place.

The Mets really got fleeced though, I feel bad for you. But Benson should command more than Zambrano. :banghead:

I guess I'll wait until this is official to flip out. But I'm glad I am a bigger Pens fan than Pirates right now. :banghead:

damn, I was hoping the Dodgers could find a way to keep Lo Duca.
Now we need to find another catcher.
Yup, I hate trading Lo Duca. He was their leader... not to mention a fan favorite. Probably the 2nd most popular Dodger behind Gagne.

There was a report that said the Dodgers may trade for Charles Johnson (Catcher for the Rockies).

Dodgers could also turn around and deal Brad Penny, Jayson Werth and a prospect for Randy Johnson and Steve Finley. (Something like that).

Chuck Lamar just pulled off a steal trading Zambrano for kazmir. Good luck with him Mets, youre gonna need a lot of it with his control problems.

David Littlefield once again proves that he is a horrible GM.

Wigginton is crap and Peterson is about the sixth best pitching prospect we have now...and we're now not only giving Benson away but OTHER PLAYS TOO?

****ing asshat.

Kazmir is 5 times better than what we're getting combined and Benson is twice the pitcher Zambrano is, plus he hits the strike zone more than once a year.

This is the Ramirez trade all over again.

I'm so sick of being a Pirates fan. Everytime things start to look up our incompetant management goes and fixes it. I swear this franchise tries to lose.

Oops, my bad... looks like the Dodgers already traded for Charles Johnson:

ESPN's Jim Bowden reported Friday that the Dodgers acquired catcher Charles Johnson from the Rockies, filling the void left when Lo Duca was sent to Florida in the Penny deal.

The Devilrays also acquired Jose Diaz with Kazmir for Zambrano and 29 year old AAA relief pitcher Bartolome Fortunato.

Here's the Pirates deal, apparently.

To Mets: Benson, Keppinger
To Pirates: Wigginton, Peterson, Bautista
To Royals: Hubel

You got to be kidding me.

You got to be kidding me.

The Pirates are lucky they're on a roadtrip right now or they'd be eaten alive by their home crowd. And rightfully so.

We re-acquired a guy we lost to waivers.

Joy.

Dodgers could also turn around and deal Brad Penny, Jayson Werth and a prospect for Randy Johnson and Steve Finley. (Something like that).

Hmmm...I don't know if I like that one as well. Johnson and Finley are good players (Johnson is playing well after an off year), but they're OLD. They could definitely help a lot in the playoffs though.

I'm beginning to warm up to Jayson Werth and Penny could have a great career with the Dodgers. I guess the Dodgers are in a win now mode.

Good thing that they got Charles Johnson...but he's no Lo Duca :mad:

Jim Duquette....tonight...while you sleep! :mad:

I'm so beside myself with anger right now, its not even funny.

i wonder if the JP could unload Ligtenberg and Speier tonight or tomorrow

I don't think anyone is happy with today's unfoldings.

Except for the 2 Devil Ray fans of course.

The deal with the Marlins and Dodgers will probably be finalized tomorrow before the deadline.

There could be a potential snag. Catcher Charles Johnson (of the Rockies) still has to waive his no-trade clause. If he doesn't, then Dodgers may hold on to Lo Duca and I guess the deal could be off.

I think I've got that right.

Here's a link: Marlins nearing deal for Lo Duca (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/news/la_news.jsp?ymd=20040730&content_id=814124&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp)

The Devilrays also acquired Jose Diaz with Kazmir for Zambrano and 29 year old AAA relief pitcher Bartolome Fortunato.

big shocker for me that the Mets have traded Kazmir for crap

The deal with the Marlins and Dodgers will probably be finalized tomorrow before the deadline.

There could be a potential snag. Catcher Charles Johnson (of the Rockies) still has to waive his no-trade clause. If he doesn't, then Dodgers may hold on to Lo Duca and I guess the deal could be off.

I think I've got that right.

Here's a link: Marlins nearing deal for Lo Duca (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/news/la_news.jsp?ymd=20040730&content_id=814124&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp)

and Penny will go to Arizona as soon as Johnson accepts the trade to L.A.

Are you sure?

I did read Moneyball of course, and DePo was the guy that told Beane that defense DOES matter...

(The context was when Johnny Damon was let go and Terrence Long brought in, the difference was the 15 extra runs Johnny Damon would save)
I just read moneyball, and the A's determined that Damon was a fantastic defensive center fielder, but that the research showed that the defence didnt have enough of an impact. they said it wouldnt effect their win/loss ratio enough to make a difference.

Here's the order in which I rank the team's moves of the day.

1. Kansas City. They traded away Jose Bautista (a player they plucked off waivers) and got Justin Huber, a top 5 catching prospect who may be ready for the big leagues next year. Ummm, that's what I call "something for nothing."

2. Devil Rays. Holy sshiiitt, do the Devil Rays have a future or what? Already with Delmon Young and BJ Upton, now they've added top pitching prospect Scott Kazmir to the mix. They also acquired decent pitching prospect Jose Diaz, and all it cost them was Victor "I don't have a ****ing clue where I'm throwing this" Zambrano and a AAAA guy. Their starting rotation looks pretty crap right now, but who cares? They weren't making the playoffs anyways so all that really matters is that they look set for the future. And they do.

3. Dodgers. Holy crap, I can't believe so many people are saying that the Dodgers made a bad trade. They got younger, they got cheaper, and they got (IMO) better. They lose a good setup man in Mota, but they get 26 year old starter Brad Penny. That's a plus. They lose an above average catcher in Lo Duca, but receive a 25 year old power hitter (still with potential) in Choi. That's a plus. They lose Encarnacion for a pitching prospect. That's negligible. I don't know much about the pitching prospect, but Encarnacion wasn't that good.

4. Pirates. Eh, they got about what I would have expected for Benson. Talks that they were going to get players like Morneau or Kotchman are just ridiculous. Benson is a nearly 30-year old average pitcher who will soon be an FA. In return for him they got Wiggginton, who's OK, and Matt Peterson, who looks to be a solid prospect. It's not spectacular, but again it's about what I'd expect.

5. Marlins. They had a need at catcher, and they filled it. They had a need for a setup man, and they filled it. Those are good, but while I said the dodgers got "younger, cheaper and better," I would likewise say the Marlins got older, more expensive, and worse. Their rotation is a HUGE question mark now with the oft-injured Burnett and Beckett as well as the inconsistent Dontrelle Willis.

6. Mets. If I were a Mets fan I would probably want to commit suicide. Over the years, the Mets had built up quite a good farm system. They had David Wright, who everyone knows about. They had Justin Huber, who is probably the best catching prospect outside of Mauer, Mathis, and Navarro. And they also had Scott Kazmir, arguably the best pitching prospect in all of baseball. In addition to Kazmir, they had Matt Peterson and Bob Keppel to round out their rotation of the future.

They still have David Wright and Bob Keppel. Everyone else is gone. Kazmir, Huber, and Peterson are all traded today. And for what? An average pitcher who they may lose in the offseason and a no.3 starter that can't get the ball over the plate. I can understand trading your best prospects for a chance to win, but come on. The Mets are 7 games out of a wild card spot! MAYBE if they traded those prospects for Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson, then they'd have a chance. But Kris Benson and Victor Zambrano??? Their deals might not look so bad if they (somehow) make the playoffs, but I would say that's a longshot.


...


Just my opinions. :)

King Ryan, KC got a great deal there but Huber is not deserved of giving anyone top status. He's a good catching prospect that projects to be an above average catcher but may be moved from that position and if he does he will have lowered his stock immensly as he'd be average then.. Btw- the waiver pick up (rule 5 draftee) was a legit prospect a year ago, not as bad as the term implies, I'm just wondering why the heck the Pirates didn't just take Huber. Also no way is Navarro a better prospect then Huber.

as for the Met prospect, I think you mean David Wright and Jose Reyes because aside from those two everyone else worth noting is in the lower levels and Keppel sucks and Peterson while good, is not great or worth mentioning. It's the quantity of Huber and Peterson along with Wiggy for Benson that is wrong about this deal. Obviously the Tampa deal it's the quality, also you should mention Joselo Diaz, being that he's another guy who just started pitching and throws in the upper 90's, has 4 no hitters so far this season (albeit not one complete game because of his walks).

I think you overrated prospects quite a bit but aside from that good insight. I hated the Kazmir deal and Benson one but once the dust settled I realized what I have. We may have overpaid but we did not get nothing, the Kazmir one I will not defend but I can live. I'm surprised you are knocking them so hard considering you seem to be overly high on projectability. Kris Benson and Zambrano have plenty of that. We'll see.

I think it goes down like this
1. Tampa Bay - got a top 5 pitching prospect for someone they likely would've moved next year
2. Dodgers - totally in agreement with you, they got a heck of a deal but it's only the prelude to a RJ trade
3. Mets - Benson and Zambrano going off history they suck but they come here with the thought of turning them into some kind of studs, we'll see if Rick Peterson is all that he's cracked up to be. They overpaid with prospects, I emphasize prospects - what are the chances all 4 turn into something let alone their given potential?



btw Pirate fans you can blame Benson's agent for not having Kubel and Miencwiz(sp). The trade was about to be announced late last night but Benson's agent told the Twins Benson would not resign there under any circumstances

also

King Ryan, KC got a great deal there but Huber is not deserved of giving anyone top status. He's a good catching prospect that projects to be an above average catcher but may be moved from that position and if he does he will have lowered his stock immensly as he'd be average then.. Btw- the waiver pick up (rule 5 draftee) was a legit prospect a year ago, not as bad as the term implies, I'm just wondering why the heck the Pirates didn't just take Huber. Also no way is Navarro a better prospect then Huber.

as for the Met prospect, I think you mean David Wright and Jose Reyes because aside from those two everyone else worth noting is in the lower levels and Keppel sucks and Peterson while good, is not great or worth mentioning. It's the quantity of Huber and Peterson along with Wiggy for Benson that is wrong about this deal. Obviously the Tampa deal it's the quality, also you should mention Joselo Diaz, being that he's another guy who just started pitching and throws in the upper 90's, has 4 no hitters so far this season (albeit not one complete game because of his walks).

I think you overrated prospects quite a bit but aside from that good insight. I hated the Kazmir deal and Benson one but once the dust settled I realized what I have. We may have overpaid but we did not get nothing, the Kazmir one I will not defend but I can live. I'm surprised you are knocking them so hard considering you seem to be overly high on projectability. Kris Benson and Zambrano have plenty of that. We'll see.


Keep in mind I have not seen these prospects play ... I'm simply basing what I say on

a) What sites like www.baseballamerica.com say about them

and

b) Their stats

This year, Huber started the season in AA where he posted a .414 OBP with 11 homers. He was just recently promoted to AAA. I find it funny that you say he's better than Navarro, but say he's not in the top 5. Ummm, okay. If that's true then what are the top 5? I've been lead to believe that the top 5 catching prospects in baseball are: (no particular order)

Mauer
Mathis
Navarro
Quiroz

Huber

If Huber is better than Navarro, then that means there are two catchers that you think are better prospects that Huber. Who? You're right though, if he moves from catcher then his stock goes down, but still... I would say he's worth Bautista.

Keppel sucks? Well then I guess you're glad you didn't trade him :lol:

As for Matt Peterson, I don't think I'm overrating him. Most Mets fans I've heard have said that they were looking forward to seeing both Kazmir and Peterson in the rotation soon. I've never really seen Diaz mentioned, but his 70 BB's in 83 IP certainly doesn't blow me away. All in all, as you say it's the quantity that matters here. Trading Peterson isn't too much. Trading Wigginton isn't too much. Trading Huber isn't too much. But trading all three of them AND Kazmir? That is absolutely absurd.

As for Benson and Zambrano's projectability...they are not as young as so many people seem to think they are. Benson will be 30 in November, and Zambrano is 28.

You know what though? It's not the fact that they traded all those prospects away...it's what they traded them for. Look, you need to face facts. The Mets are 7.5 games out of a WC spot. IF the Mets were in serious contention, I might understand mortgaging so much of their future for a chance to win it all, but they really aren't in contention. They are 4 games under .500 and 7 GB in their division. There's just no way that Benson and Zambrano are going to be enough to make up that gap. I just don't see it happening.

That's what bugs me. The Mets just mortgaged a HUGE chunk of their future, and they probably will not make the playoffs this year. So you have to ask yourself, what was the point?


I think it goes down like this
1. Tampa Bay - got a top 5 pitching prospect for someone they likely would've moved next year
2. Dodgers - totally in agreement with you, they got a heck of a deal but it's only the prelude to a RJ trade
3. Mets - Benson and Zambrano going off history they suck but they come here with the thought of turning them into some kind of studs, we'll see if Rick Peterson is all that he's cracked up to be. They overpaid with prospects, I emphasize prospects - what are the chances all 4 turn into something let alone their given potential?


Very true, but again that's not really the point. It is ENTIRELY possible that neither Kazmir nor Huber make the big leagues at all. In fact, it's a probability that at least one of those guys doesn't live up to their potential. But that's not the point.

The point is that the Mets has some AWESOME assets that they could use, and the best they could do is turn them into two average pitchers in a year that probably won't make a difference. As I said before, it's okay to trade prospects, but to trade prospects of that quality for Kris Benson and Victor Zambrano...it's just inexplicable. And, is starting pitching even their problem? I'm no Mets expert, but I thought they needed bullpen help and offense more than SP's. If I'm right, then that means they just traded a bunch of good prospects and didn't even fill their needs. Yikes.

Again, IF Benson and Zambrano pick it up immensely, and carry the Mets into the playoffs, then this trade will look a HELL of a lot better. But what are the chances of that happening? Even with Rick Peterson as the pitching coach, I don't think it's likely. The Mets aren't in an incredibly strong division, but still....

I just can't believe that they were able to deal two of their top three prospects (not counting Reyes) and not get a truly great player in return.

I don't know what to make of that whole bit.

It was CHEAPER to replace Damon's defensive prowess by just generating more offense... but it did say that 15 runs weren't chump change.


Hmmmm...are you the same Ironchef Chris Wok as the one on Primer?

The Devilrays are talking to the Chicago Whitesox about sending Jose Cruz Jr. for Joe Crede.

They lose an average catcher in Lo Duca, but receive a 25 year old power hitter (still with potential) in Choi. That's a plus.
I really liked the take on everything you said there KR, except for this. If Lo Duca is an average catcher, I'm really missing out on the above average and the good catchers in the league. Like someone else said, I look at him as the heart of the Dodgers, and his offense isn't that bad at all. Off the top of my head he has to be top 5 in the league for that position (unless I'm brain farting in the morning???).

I really liked the take on everything you said there KR, except for this. If Lo Duca is an average catcher, I'm really missing out on the above average and the good catchers in the league. Like someone else said, I look at him as the heart of the Dodgers, and his offense isn't that bad at all. Off the top of my head he has to be top 5 in the league for that position (unless I'm brain farting in the morning???).

Yeah definitely agree there.

Lo Duca is definitely not an average catcher. He's easily a top 10 catcher in the game, but not quite a top 5, He'd probably fall somewhere around the halfway point between 5 and 10.

He's consistent, he's a leader, and while he doesn't have a great arm, nor is he particulary great at throwing out runners in general. He still field his position very well and he's a very smart catcher who's great at handling a pitching staff.

Yeah definitely agree there.

Lo Duca is definitely not an average catcher. He's easily a top 10 catcher in the game, but not quite a top 5, He'd probably fall somewhere around the halfway point between 5 and 10.

He's consistent, he's a leader, and while he doesn't have a great arm, nor is he particulary great at throwing out runners in general. He still field his position very well and he's a very smart catcher who's great at handling a pitching staff.

don't forget that they could get Charles Johnson who's defensively as good if not better than Loduca. but I didn't hear anything about Charles Johnson on whether or not he accepted the trade to L.A.

The Devilrays are talking to the Chicago Whitesox about sending Jose Cruz Jr. for Joe Crede.

Crede is a bust

Raul Mondesi was released by the halos yesterday after failing to show for a rehab assignment.

I really liked the take on everything you said there KR, except for this. If Lo Duca is an average catcher, I'm really missing out on the above average and the good catchers in the league. Like someone else said, I look at him as the heart of the Dodgers, and his offense isn't that bad at all. Off the top of my head he has to be top 5 in the league for that position (unless I'm brain farting in the morning???).

Sorry. I actually meant to say "Above average catcher." I'll fix that.

Still, I wouldn't put him top-5 though. Unless you mean NL only?

btw Pirate fans you can blame Benson's agent for not having Kubel and Miencwiz(sp). The trade was about to be announced late last night but Benson's agent told the Twins Benson would not resign there under any circumstances


It's not that I don't believe you, but where'd you hear this?

:banghead:

Keep in mind I have not seen these prospects play ... I'm simply basing what I say on

a) What sites like www.baseballamerica.com say about them

and

b) Their stats
I realize this, I've seen every Met prospect traded away in person and have had a BA subscription for 4 years after buying the magazine and prospect handbook for years before. Stats are only so telling, they are as misleading as anything can be in baseball particularly in the minor leagues where age relative to league, injury etc is all taken into account

This year, Huber started the season in AA where he posted a .414 OBP with 11 homers. He was just recently promoted to AAA. I find it funny that you say he's better than Navarro, but say he's not in the top 5. Ummm, okay. If that's true then what are the top 5? I've been lead to believe that the top 5 catching prospects in baseball are: (no particular order)

Mauer
Mathis
Navarro
Quiroz

Huber

If Huber is better than Navarro, then that means there are two catchers that you think are better prospects that Huber. Who? You're right though, if he moves from catcher then his stock goes down, but still... I would say he's worth Bautista.
I never said Huber was not a top 5 catching prospect, and since apparently you base your info off of stats I'm wondering how you consider Navarro to be a better prospect then Huber. Inconsistencies in your assessments do not help your credability, as if it wasn't enough you having not seen any of these prospects.

Keppel sucks? Well then I guess you're glad you didn't trade him :lol:he wasn't valued enough to be traded in these deals, so what did you see in Keppel that makes yo so in love with him? was it his flat low 90's heater that touches 95 on a rare occasion, sure it's impressive on the gun but not when you're behind the fence seeing how straight it is. Sure he has good command but his strike out rates have been terrible since the Mets had him stop throwing his splitter to relieve stress on his arm, he has average mlb pitchers none with plus potential, he is an average prospect

As for Matt Peterson, I don't think I'm overrating him. Most Mets fans I've heard have said that they were looking forward to seeing both Kazmir and Peterson in the rotation soon. I've never really seen Diaz mentioned, but his 70 BB's in 83 IP certainly doesn't blow me away. All in all, as you say it's the quantity that matters here. Trading Peterson isn't too much. Trading Wigginton isn't too much. Trading Huber isn't too much. But trading all three of them AND Kazmir? That is absolutely absurd.
Most Met fans don't know anything about Peterson and he has been very much overrated by the media here in NY, but perhaps I did not get your point, since I do agree as I said before it's the quantity that hurt not one of Peterson or Huber.. however Kazmir it's a different story obviously as he is a legitament stud

Diaz doesn't warrent much mention, he is an intriguing prospect the Mets made into a starter, he throws in the high 90's has a plus slider but like every other converted flame thrower he struggles with his control

As for Benson and Zambrano's projectability...they are not as young as so many people seem to think they are. Benson will be 30 in November, and Zambrano is 28.
you show your ignorance, I thought you followed prospects? Age is never the key for pitchers, it's predictability - chances are you aren't going to be an front line starter if you don't have above average mlb stuff, there are so many intangibles that need to be taken into affect, this is precisely why pitchers take so long to develop - these two guys have predictability, they have the stuff, now it's up to them and their respective team to put it all together

You know what though? It's not the fact that they traded all those prospects away...it's what they traded them for. Look, you need to face facts. The Mets are 7.5 games out of a WC spot. IF the Mets were in serious contention, I might understand mortgaging so much of their future for a chance to win it all, but they really aren't in contention. They are 4 games under .500 and 7 GB in their division. There's just no way that Benson and Zambrano are going to be enough to make up that gap. I just don't see it happening. I agree with you completely, and I don't need to face any facts since that is what I've been saying

I don't wish to continue this any further since it's going no where, I do apologize for sounding like a jerk but I feel you talk as if you know something about these guys when it is apparent to any legitament prospect follower or person who's seen these guys, that you are lacking a lot in your comments however I do agree with your premise and have never disagreed with it, only that you are over rating certain aspects and that is the prospects which is typical of this board.. I fully expect to be bashed with this comment by people here that again do not know anything about these guys

I just can't believe that they were able to deal two of their top three prospects (not counting Reyes) and not get a truly great player in return.
David Wright anyone? Lastings Milledge? Yusmerio Petit? perhaps the latter two are reaches since they are in A+ however if you're going to say not counting Reyes then it makes absolutely no sense to not mention Wright since he clearly is their top prospect - check your BA account, they agree much like every other prospect publication

It's not that I don't believe you, but where'd you hear this?

:banghead:
a beat writer from Pittsburgh was on WFAN last night talking about Benson and mentioned this, I forgot his name, if you can name some guys I will probably recognize him


he also mentioned Anna Benson was upset Kris did not have sex with her on nights before he pitches, thought that was funny :lol

I realize this, I've seen every Met prospect traded away in person and have had a BA subscription for 4 years after buying the magazine and prospect handbook for years before. Stats are only so telling, they are as misleading as anything can be in baseball particularly in the minor leagues where age relative to league, injury etc is all taken into account


For what it's worth, I value a) far more than b). The only stats I really look at are BB/K since they give an indication of how good the prospect controls the strike zone.


do you have trouble reading, I never said Huber was not a top 5 catching prospect, and since apparently you base your info off of stats I'm wondering how you consider Navarro to be a better prospect then Huber. Inconsistencies in your assessments do not help your credability, as if it wasn't enough you having not seen any of these prospects.


Whoa, relax. I said that Huber was a top-5 catching prospect and I thought that you disagreed. I didn't give an opinion on whether he was better than Navarro, in fact I asked for yours. Do you like Huber or not? In one sentence you're bashing him and in another you're praising him. Inconsistencies in your assessments do not help your credibility. ;)

Please don't turn this into a flamewar when it could be a good debate.


he wasn't valued enough to be traded in these deals, so what did you see in Keppel that makes yo so in love with him? was it his flat low 90's heater that touches 95 on a rare occasion, sure it's impressive on the gun but not when you're behind the fence seeing how straight it is. Sure he has good command but his strike out rates have been terrible since the Mets had him stop throwing his splitter to relieve stress on his arm, he has average mlb pitchers none with plus potential, he is an average prospect


What....the hell. I didn't say I liked Keppel. I said "If Keppel sucks, you should be glad the Mets didn't trade him." I was being sarcastic, it was a joke. If you say he sucks then I'll take your word for it, no question.


Most Met fans don't know anything about Peterson and he has been very much overrated by the media here in NY, but perhaps I did not get your point, since I do agree as I said before it's the quantity that hurt not one of Peterson or Huber.. however Kazmir it's a different story obviously as he is a legitament stud

Diaz doesn't warrent much mention, he is an intriguing prospect the Mets made into a starter, he throws in the high 90's has a plus slider but like every other converted flame thrower he struggles with his control


I do not disagree with any of this.

You show your ignorance, I thought you followed prospects? Age is never the key for pitchers, it's predictability - chances are you aren't going to be an front line starter if you don't have above average mlb stuff, there are so many intangibles that need to be taken into affect, this is precisely why pitchers take so long to develop - these two guys have predictability, they have the stuff, now it's up to them and their respective team to put it all together

I agree with you completely, and I don't need to face any facts since that is what I've been saying

I don't wish to continue this any further since it's going no where, I do apologize for sounding like a jerk but I feel you talk as if you know something about these guys when it is apparent to any legitament prospect follower or person who's seen these guys, that you are lacking a lot in your comments however I do agree with your premise and have never disagreed with it, only that you are over rating certain aspects and that is the prospects which is typical of this board.. I fully expect to be bashed with this comment by people here that again do not know anything about these guys


Look, you are more knowledgable than I am. Sorry, I don't live in New York and don't follow the Mets that much. So my details may be off, but my overall point is still there.


David Wright anyone? Lastings Milledge? Yusmerio Petit? perhaps the latter two are reaches however if you're going to say not counting Reyes then it makes absolutely no sense to not mention Wright since he clearly is their top prospect - check your BA account, they agree much like every other prospect publication

What?

I said "Two of their top three." I've always thought their top three prospects were David Wright, Scott Kazmir, and Justin Huber. Sorry if I'm wrong about that. And if you want to count Reyes, then that's fine but he's not really a prospect anymore.

edit: at first I had Delmon Young written in there. :joker: I've been awake for far too long.

Steve Finley agrees to join the Dodgers. Just saw it on Fox.

Charles Johnson rejected the trade to the Dodgers, btw. Now that Lo Duca trade really stings. I guess we'll have to use Dave Ross.

a beat writer from Pittsburgh was on WFAN last night talking about Benson and mentioned this, I forgot his name, if you can name some guys I will probably recognize him


Joe Rutter, John Perrotto, Paul Meyer, and Robert Dvorchak are the guys I would think of who could be it, most likely one of the first two.

And yes, I've heard that about Anna Benson... furthering my advice, if you are ever at Shea Stadium not near game time, I wouldn't wander around in either clubhouse, if you catch my drift. :lol

Nomar Garciaparra has been traded to the Cubs!

Details????

Another one:

Contreras to Chicago White Sox

Loaiza to New York Yankees