let's rank soccer prospects!!

Hi guys,
this is a project that have been surfing through my mind during this Euro 2004 days and watching how many soccer posters we have here from different countries i think it could be really interesting to do it, for Europe at least;
I think it would be cool to rank prospects all over the European leagues to come up with a list that tries to identify who will be the best soccer players in the next ten years!


Here is how it is supposed to work in my mind:

- everyone interested gives his availability and will do a ranking of the best prospects ( with foreign players too) playing in the league he follows closely.

At the moment i could think of:

Me, Bubbles?,maybe PSG?, maybe Strizzi?..---- for serieA
Evilo, PSG, Naoned Citizen,..------------------for the French league
a LOT of guys!------------------------------- for the Dutch league
Belgian fan ----------------------------------for Belgian league
Coppo, Belgian fan?,..------------------------for the Premiership
Mole? ---------------------------------------for Denmark
Strizzi --------------------------------------for the Swiss league
TomACE, Franz, GermanGirl, Zecke26..--------for Germany
Predatore, Riddarn, others..------------------for Sweden
Sampe,...-----------------------------------for Finland
Rangers-------------------------------------for Norway
Alexander the great, RoyIsALegend-----------for Portugal
RoyIsALegend?,....??-------------------------for Spain

sorry for those i missed..

-The list should be intended as the order you would follow if you had to draft all these players to use those chosen for the next ten years, just like an NHL GM.
You can/should take everything into consideration:
of course age, position (one position can be more important than another in someone's opinion), potential, present skills, head (brain)...
so the list should not be based (only) on who you think are the best now or just for the next year.

-The first problem is identifying the players' elegibility. I think we should consider elegible all the players born in '82 or later. Otherwise they would become too many and many would be already too estabilished.

-we would set a 'large' deadline to submit own rankings. I suggest the end of July as a limit, i would post mine in the last week of July ( too busy along the next month).
This way everyone has time to do his work and to make his list without any pressure. Anyway, if it is posted some days before the supposed deadline you would have the chance to edit it if required, it's easy to forget a player you know.

-The lists can go from top5 to top40* and should provide birthdate of course ( proving elegibility) and some descriptions of the players, from two adjectives to full reports, *depending on your knowledge, will, time and..ehm..faith in the readers!

-after every posters who joined the project will have posted his own one, in August everyone will have one full month to take inspiration by others' rankings (related to the other countries' leagues) to come up with his own overall top 50 (?) ranking for every prospect playng in Europe! (say, by 30th August)

- after that we will merge the overall rankings to come up with the HFboard soccer prospect ranking by mid September, when the main Eurpean leagues are going to start! :yo:
Of course, we will have to decide which is the best weighted method to merge everyone's overall rankings to have the less biased result possible.

Again, this could be really interesting imo, both now and along the next years for consulting and..laughing of course, and there would be a lot of time to put on the bit of needed effort. (without any requests to be regularly on line, like it was in the all-time soccer draft)


Guys, let me know what you think ! :jump:

I may have missed it in your post, but we need to use a clear standard for prospects. When and when aren't you a prospect anymore?

I may have missed it in your post, but we need to use a clear standard for prospects. When and when aren't you a prospect anymore?

everyone who is born on or later than 1st January 1982 would be elegible!

everyone who is born on or later than 1st January 1982 would be elegible!

Yeah but then you have guys like Arjen Robben, Rafael van der Vaart and Johnny Heitinga, all 3 are young (20) but neither can be considered a prospect..

Yeah but then you have guys like Arjen Robben, Rafael van der Vaart and Johnny Heitinga, all 3 are young (20) but neither can be considered a prospect..
You will have to rank all of these players, just like Rooney or C.Ronaldo for those making the ranks for the Premiership! :yo:

The 'prospect' word here is to be intended like =born on or later than 1st January 1982!

This sounds like fun.

I'll gladly do La Liga and Superliga prospects.
That's great, i feared there could have been troubles for the Liga! :banana:

definatly an awesome idea :yo:
agree! :D


I could do premier league rankings too!

and maybe the austrian league but there is only one mentionable talent :D (ivanschitz,20, capitan of team austria)
Great!
Than do a top5 also for Austria underlining the big drop-off in the ranks after the #1!

Sounds excellent!

I'm definitely willing to do Finland as long as you can tolerate 2nd hand info. I've never even seen most of the talented youngsters we have. :o

I'll add a bump on the road.
For instance you're asking for the french league, but guys like Mexes, Cisse and co are leaving the league, so they shouldn't be included?
Rather than doing by league, how about doing it by country?

I'll add a bump on the road.
For instance you're asking for the french league, but guys like Mexes, Cisse and co are leaving the league, so they shouldn't be included?
Rather than doing by league, how about doing it by country?

But then there's more bias involved.. it's a lot more fun reading what people think about your nations top prospects..

But then there's more bias involved.. it's a lot more fun reading what people think about your nations top prospects..
Well you could argue there is bias if you rate your own league as well, where there's a majority of your country's prospects.
See, I think I'd be in better place to talk about Cisse and you about Robben than some english fan right now, don't you think?

Um...how about creating both the country and the league lists? It's easy for me to suggest of course as they are practically identical in Finland, but...?

Well you could argue there is bias if you rate your own league as well, where there's a majority of your country's prospects.
See, I think I'd be in better place to talk about Cisse and you about Robben than some english fan right now, don't you think?
good point; i should have clarified, like it was in my mind, that players belong to the leagues' lists where they played this last season. In fact we will do it during this summer so it would make no sense to insert guys like Cisse or Robben in Premiership's lists where they have not played a single game yet. :)

Um...how about creating both the country and the league lists? It's easy for me to suggest of course as they are practically identical in Finland, but...?

I think it would be more confusing than helpfull..

Besides, what could say about Valeri Bojinov an ipotetical guy who writes the rank for Bulgaria? Bojinov is now 18yrs old and has been in Italy at least for 4yrs by now, so i don't think a Bulgarian could know much about him wiithout being a close serieA observer..

Think this is a great idea, cant wait to give some information on the up and coming players. There is a good number of young players coming through in the premiership some english some foreign. Looking forward to hearing about the la liga players. Im on holiday for two weeks but will get back to you on my return.

PS WE ALL KNOW ROONEY IS GOING TO BE DRAFTED NO1 OVERALL FACT! :yo: :banana:

PS WE ALL KNOW ROONEY IS GOING TO BE DRAFTED NO1 OVERALL FACT! :yo: :banana:

I don't think so.. possible though..

Think this is a great idea, cant wait to give some information on the up and coming players. There is a good number of young players coming through in the premiership some english some foreign. Looking forward to hearing about the la liga players. Im on holiday for two weeks but will get back to you on my return.
That's nice! I'm really interested to read some hopefully deepened Premiership's rankings along the summer.



PS WE ALL KNOW ROONEY IS GOING TO BE DRAFTED NO1 OVERALL FACT! :yo: :banana:
I wouldn't be so sure!
Anyway, one thing i fear and i think we should all try to avoid is to make our players' descriptions be too affected by our support for particular players.
I mean, we will all have the chance to make our own overall rankings (after reading all the other leagues' ones), so we shouldn't try to influence the readers opinion making biased descriptions instead of reporting both ups and downs for our favourites too.

Hey, this is not a warning to you in particular, is just an auspice for everyone taking part. ;)

It sounds very interesting for sure :) I'd say people would have to judge the prospects playing in their league as of last season, as they will have the best ability to judge the progress of these players.

As for Rooney going #1, that would be a much foregone conclusion. While he is going to be good, the overhyping he receives is incredible...

Sounds excellent!

I'm definitely willing to do Finland as long as you can tolerate 2nd hand info. I've never even seen most of the talented youngsters we have. :o

2nd hand info is better than nothing! :)
The obvious question i have and you should have is: how much reliable your sources are? Just keep it in mind while making the ranks.
Also, there are a lot of Finns around the HFboards i guess, so maybe you could ask for them to do it as well or just to provide you some more info when/where you feel the need.

All in all, i feel like i can easily tolerate your 2nd hand info! ;)

It sounds very interesting for sure :) I'd say people would have to judge the prospects playing in their league as of last season, as they will have the best ability to judge the progress of these players.


i should have clarified, like it was in my mind, that players belong to the leagues' lists where they played this last season



;)

Hey come on guys, give me some bit of enjoyment today, we just lost on pens again. Give me 1 glimmer of hope that something good is coming out of england!

Ok maybe not 1, but surely a Top 10! The only thing about looking at players performances from last year is how many games,injuries etc. You do have to take into account that some players played in weak sides, so they are not going to fulfill there full potential with weak players around them holding there ability back!

When drafting arent we looking to how potentially good they can be, ie rooney a certain 1st round type(international,world class). player. ie jermaine Pennant a potential 3rd,4th round but more than likely a good premiership, maybe international at best. :dunno:

Yeah, I'd say Rooney is definitely "1st round talent". We'll just have to see if he is #1 though, since I find that to be a somewhat premature ocnclusion.

And yeah, I know losing after a penalty shootout sucks. s Dutch people have had to endure it 4 times since 1992, and still somehow it seems like the coaches and players do not feel it to be necesarry to extensively train penalties.

The only thing about looking at players performances from last year is how many games,injuries etc.
You don't have to look at last year performances only! :)

Not exactly The Premiership but two names to watch out for are Matt Murray (GK) and Joleon Lescott (DEF) coming straight out of Wolverhampton, England. They'll never be greats but both would be solid premier league players when (not if) Wolves get back in the prem. Also Robert Earnshaw (STR) from Cardiff is looking good at the moment.

Nice Idea. The German prospects depth may not be that awesome, but we still have a few to show for. :D

Not exactly The Premiership but two names to watch out for are Matt Murray (GK) and Joleon Lescott (DEF) coming straight out of Wolverhampton, England. They'll never be greats but both would be solid premier league players when (not if) Wolves get back in the prem. Also Robert Earnshaw (STR) from Cardiff is looking good at the moment.

I would think if you were drafting these two players in an upcoming potential stars these 2 would struggle to be in the top 30!

By the way jermaine defoe is my no2 after rooney! :yo:

Cisse > Rooney ;)
You'll see next year in liverpool.

Rooney>Cisse until cisse plays in a worthwhile league and international stage he is not proven!

Rooney>Cisse until cisse plays in a worthwhile league and international stage he is not proven!

So being top scorer in the French league two years in a row is being unproven??? Which was the only country again wich provided finalists for both European Cups this season??

Rooney is a great talent, but he hasn't proven he can do it on a consistent level. Cissé has.

Cisse > Rooney ;)
You'll see next year in liverpool.

Robben > Cisse > Rooney ;)

You'll see next year in Chelsea..

Seriously, I like this idea..

Robben is not guaranteed a 1st team place with Duff around. Duff is an exceptionally good player.Ive not seen robben enough to say Duff is better or not.Robben has been great in this tournament. But for me Duff is there with Giggs and Kewell as the best leftsided players in the premiership. Duffs injury last year affected chelsea very badly.

Granted Cisse has been top scorer, I dont doubt his ability either. I think he will be a superstar, but the french league is not strong to be honest in my eyes. From what I know the top sides Lyon,Marseille,PSG,Monaco and Auxerre are good sides but are any of the others. But I do not have a vast knowledge of that league am i right I dont know? :help: He also will have to try and get in front of Owen and Baros. But I do respect him for keeping his word and joining Liverpool, doesnt happen that often these days!

Granted Cisse has been top scorer, I dont doubt his ability either. I think he will be a superstar, but the french league is not strong to be honest in my eyes. From what I know the top sides Lyon,Marseille,PSG,Monaco and Auxerre are good sides but are any of the others. But I do not have a vast knowledge of that league am i right I dont know? :help: He also will have to try and get in front of Owen and Baros. But I do respect him for keeping his word and joining Liverpool, doesnt happen that often these days!

So you basically agree that he's shown more consistency to this day than Rooney right?


As for the French league, it's pretty decent, it just suffers from the lack of financial firepower. Cissé scored 8 goals more than Pauleta for instance, so that does tell you something

ehm..not to cool down your enthusiasm, but Cissé ( August '81) would not be elegible... :o

So you basically agree that he's shown more consistency to this day than Rooney right?

Rooney is 18, Cisse turns 23 in a month.. consistency needs seasoning..

Yes I do agree cisse has been more consistent, but he has also played alot more games,he playes with a top 6 club unlike rooney who plays for a team that finished 17th. David Moyes doesnt use him every game due to him gettin tired,dont understand this myself but his the boss! He is also 3 years older than rooney in experience! That does have some affect I think!

Oh, before this turns totally ugly, I personally think Rooney is the better talent, he's already shown it on all levels he's played in.

But my point is that for the next year or two Cissé is going to be better player and I think he'll score more goals than Wayne for the time being.

Nice Idea. The German prospects depth may not be that awesome, but we still have a few to show for. :D
I'm pretty confident finally Germany has some promising young players again (and then there are also the foreigners playing there).
We even just saw some of them in this Euro! (Lahm and that #7).
I hope for you to do a top10 at least! :)

Not exactly The Premiership...
It doesn't matter, the player has not to come out necessarily from the best league of the country! ;)

Robben is not guaranteed a 1st team place with Duff around. Duff is an exceptionally good player.Ive not seen robben enough to say Duff is better or not.Robben has been great in this tournament. But for me Duff is there with Giggs and Kewell as the best leftsided players in the premiership. Duffs injury last year affected chelsea very badly.

Granted Cisse has been top scorer, I dont doubt his ability either. I think he will be a superstar, but the french league is not strong to be honest in my eyes. From what I know the top sides Lyon,Marseille,PSG,Monaco and Auxerre are good sides but are any of the others. But I do not have a vast knowledge of that league am i right I dont know? :help: He also will have to try and get in front of Owen and Baros. But I do respect him for keeping his word and joining Liverpool, doesnt happen that often these days!

With all due respect Coppo but I put this reply straight into the waste-basket.

First Robben...I don't understand why Chelsea have bought him the first place. Both Duff and Robben are typical left-wingers and there's only room for one. However, Duff wasn't always a certainty this season either. We'll see what happens over there next season.

Than about Cissé and your "not very strong league". In that case there wouldn't play any topplayers in the Dutch league either and history has learned us something completely different. I hope I don't have to name all the topplayers who have played in the Dutch league.

To be honest Belgian Fan I think Cisse will always score more goals than Rooney. As to me Rooney is more like A Totti type player he scores and creates, from what I see of Cisse he is just a natural goalscorer!

I hope I don't have to name all the topplayers who have played in the Dutch league.

Come on... tell him.. :jump:

Granted I might not be correct on the cisse situation and maybe i was being harsh on the french league. Maybe it was my english tinted glasses not giving enough credit!

But what I said about Duff is the truth, If you lived in England you would have heard Ranieri talk non stop about Duff being the most important player on his team.He was a certainty in that team he just wasnt always fit and very injury prone last year. So I think im correct in this situation only my opinion.

....
hey Belgian Fan, i'm counting on you taking part and doing possibly both Belgian league (i guess you are the only one who could properly do it, so please!) and Premiership lists, but you still have not made any comment on your availability.. :allears: :hyper:

But what I said about Duff is the truth, If you lived in England you would have heard Ranieri talk non stop about Duff being the most important player on his team.He was a certainty in that team he just wasnt always fit and very injury prone last year. So I think im correct in this situation only my opinion.

I don't think anyone has his doubts about Damien Duff.


hey Belgian Fan, i'm counting on you taking part and doing possibly both Belgian league (i guess you are the only one who could properly do it, so please!) and Premiership lists, but you still have not made any comment on your availability.. :allears: :hyper:

Hey, the best Belgian player plays in the Dutch league ! :D

I just want to make clear I just didnt think the French League had very strong defences maybe Im being harsh or got a distinct lack of knowledge about the french league. But I only really know Mexes.Boumsong,edmilson really who are real proven defenders. I might get ripped to shreads for this opinion and maybe I should nt have made a comment as not knowing enough on the league! I wasnt knocking the capabilites of cisse he looks a fine player!

Whatabout non-European prospects? Like say Maxwell (BRA) of Ajax, Ono (JAP) of Feyenoord and such, not sure whether they fit the criteria but it's just an example..

I follow Serie A very closely (big Internazionale FC fan).

If we do this ranking I could help, Inter has a great core of young prospects (what about Obafemi Martins eh?) :yo:

I'm pretty confident finally Germany has some promising young players again (and then there are also the foreigners playing there).
We even just saw some of them in this Euro! (Lahm and that #7).
I hope for you to do a top10 at least! :)

I'm usually a pessimist here. But you're correct with Lahm, Schweinsteiger (#7), Podolski, Kuranyi (still room for improvement), Hinkel, Huth (Chelsea) and mabye Hizelsperger (Aston Villa) we have some prospects. The question will be, if they are going to be impact players in the future. As of today I can only see Lahm as an impact player in the future.

Come on... tell him.. :jump:
No please! It would take the thread off topic even more..

BTW, i see several guys discussing along this thread who still have not expressed their feelings about the opportunity of joining this project.. :allears:

I follow Serie A very closely (big Internazionale FC fan).

If we do this ranking I could help, Inter has a great core of young prospects (what about Obafemi Martins eh?) :yo:

Sometimes I think he has chosen the wrong the sport. :)

What about non-European prospects? Like say Maxwell (BRA) of Ajax, Ono (JAP) of Feyenoord and such, not sure whether they fit the criteria but it's just an example..
Obviously they fit since the only criteria would be 'born on or later 1st January 1982'.
The only problem i would have with Maxwell is his birthdate ( August '81).
Anyway the birthdate dead-line for elegibility could obviously be discussed.

I follow Serie A very closely (big Internazionale FC fan).

If we do this ranking I could help, Inter has a great core of young prospects (what about Obafemi Martins eh?) :yo:

Then you should be able to do a good ranking, if you will take under control your bias towards Inter! ;) (Obafemi should be there, of course!)

hey Belgian Fan, i'm counting on you taking part and doing possibly both Belgian league (i guess you are the only one who could properly do it, so please!) and Premiership lists, but you still have not made any comment on your availability.. :allears: :hyper:

Oh, don't worry, I'll be in, I thought it went without saying!

I'll need some time to do the list though, I've got a busy schedule coming up.
But than again, there's only a few talented guys out there anyway in Belgium. And I'll try to help as much as I can on the EPL as well.


BTW there used to be this great prospect site on the internet but it went down a few years ago. It could be still out there but I lost the bookmark anyway so I couldn't find it.

Oh, don't worry, I'll be in, I thought it went without saying!

I'll need some time to do the list though, I've got a busy schedule coming up.
But than again, there's only a few talented guys out there anyway in Belgium. And I'll try to help as much as I can on the EPL as well.

:yo:

Don't worry as well, you will have more than a month to post your listS so...
For the same reason (busy :dunno: ) i don't think i will be able to post it before the last week of July.
Anyway i hope there will be some others' lists to read in the thread before that date. :)

I think Cissé is one of the top (if not the top) young talent in the game, so I'd rank him above Rooney.
That said, he's ineligible so that'll make the job easy.
Cissé is IMO a MUCH better scorer than Henry ever was.
He's a phenom.
And Owen and Baros should worry all they can, because they'll see a guy named Cissé run by them in the depth chart and by defensemen.

Guys, are you happy with that birthdate deadline (1st january '82) you too?

A lot of great youngsters (Baros, Cissé, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic, Vicente, Joaquin,...) were born in '81 and the intent of this project is identifying who the best players (coming from European leagues) will be for the next decade, so there would be room for complaints i guess..
On the other hand, anticipating that deadline would meant adding many players, many profiles. So we would end up doing longer ranks ( adding, say, maybe 10 players to your league's list and many more to your overall ranking) with some more effort required.
Also, someone could make a case for becoming even more difficult to compare 17/18yrs olders with '81 guys.
For these reasons i suggest if the deadline is moved it shouldn't allow 23yrs older to be considerated anyway. This means i could live with a 1st July '81 deadline and no further anticipation.

Thoughts?

. And I'll try to help as much as I can on the EPL as well.


Same.

Then you should be able to do a good ranking, if you will take under control your bias towards Inter! ;) (Obafemi should be there, of course!)

LOL! Cassano is for sure at the top of my list and don't forget Italy has the most dominant young corp of the entire europe (won the U-21 title five times thought), it could be fun.

If we do this ranking I could help, Inter has a great core of young prospects (what about Obafemi Martins eh?) :yo:

Obviously I am stirring up things here with the following idiotic remark: If Martins is really born after 82, I am Santa Claus. :D

As some great players will come from South America, should we try to include a few prospects that are currently playing there? :dunno:
(I would be happy to work on a list.)

As some great players will come from South America, should we try to include a few prospects that are currently playing there? :dunno:
(I would be happy to work on a list.)
Personally i had decided no. The reason is i don't think we have on these boards people following South American leagues close enough. It's not only Brasil and Argentina, you know, and i guess even for those two if we tried we could just make a short list made up of some big names known much more on what we read than on what we can see.
What's interesting of this project is that we could be able to get info and the real feelings from people who have watched several/many times the prospects.
It would become very difficult to compare partial or tentaive lists for South America with much more informative lists from around Europe when trying to do our own overall lists.
If surprisingly for me that's the case for Brasil and Argentina too, than maybe.
Otherwise, i'd prefer to make a very good work for Europe only than a tentative one for all over the world.
I would be more inclined to do something like that after we will have accomplished a final list for Europe (and so after the Olympics, too). :)

It makes sense. I was suggesting South America as I have been watching the Copa Libertadores and I expect to have a look at the Copa America in July. But I see and understand your point about the fact that it would never be as precised as the list and the opinions for Europe.
I will try to work something out from the leagues I am much more familiar with.

Obviously I am stirring up things here with the following idiotic remark: If Martins is really born after 82, I am Santa Claus. :D

Oba-Oba was born on 28th October 1984. :bow:

Oba-Oba was born on 28th October 1984. :bow:

Well, we can't be too sure can we? ;)

First Robben...I don't understand why Chelsea have bought him the first place. Both Duff and Robben are typical left-wingers and there's only room for one. However, Duff wasn't always a certainty this season either. We'll see what happens over there next season.



Since Jesper Gronkjaer (I hate spelling some of these names) is close to being sold, Chelsea is without a player who can be considered a true right winger. What this tells me is that one of Robben or Duff will play on the right. In fact, Jesper was a left footed player, and him and Duff were always switching sides during games (much like Figo and Ronaldo for Portugal). Duff CAN play on the right, although how well is a question mark (he's certainly better on the left). Considering Duff's injury problems, this may not even be an issue come next season.

If you still need some help on prospects, i can help on the french league.

Since Jesper Gronkjaer (I hate spelling some of these names) is close to being sold, Chelsea is without a player who can be considered a true right winger. What this tells me is that one of Robben or Duff will play on the right. In fact, Jesper was a left footed player, and him and Duff were always switching sides during games (much like Figo and Ronaldo for Portugal). Duff CAN play on the right, although how well is a question mark (he's certainly better on the left). Considering Duff's injury problems, this may not even be an issue come next season.

Robben can't play RW..

Maybe you should've persued another Dutch talent, Robin van Persie who got snapped by the Gunners. He can play both wings as well as center, at least, that's what he told the media.. Personally I'd like to think he has a higher upside than Robben..

Me, Bubbles?,maybe PSG?, maybe Strizzi?..---- for serieA



Sure, I'll help out. I'm looking forward to hearing from others on exciting new players.

I know a bit about Serie A, I am from Canada but I do follow the league closely ( especially Juventus and AC Milan )

Somebody already mentioned that Italy has won the U-21 five times, they just won the EC U-21 this past June, they will have a LOT of good players coming up.
Bonera and Gilardino are just a few good examples.

Robben can't play RW..


Then I guess Duff will. Or maybe Parker will play on the right side of mdifield. Or maybe Gerrad will (if he comes). The permutaions and combinations are endless. I think things will work out though, there seems to be a definate plan since Kenyon came in after his gardening leave, and that has become even more foucused with the arrival of Mourinho. Robben's father originally said he would never go to Chelsea because he felt the team was a mess (signing all the players they could). Clearly, when Ranieri and Kenyon met with Robben, they told him something that changed his mind. The money probably turned his head as well, but I think Robben had to realize that the money would eventually come anyway, and that at this stage, picking the right club was more important.

Bonera and Gilardino are just a few good examples.

Is Gilardino a a second striker (support striker, eg. Totti) or a first striker (pure striker, eg. Vieri)?

Then I guess Duff will. Or maybe Parker will play on the right side of mdifield. Or maybe Gerrad will (if he comes). The permutaions and combinations are endless. I think things will work out though, there seems to be a definate plan since Kenyon came in after his gardening leave, and that has become even more foucused with the arrival of Mourinho. Robben's father originally said he would never go to Chelsea because he felt the team was a mess (signing all the players they could). Clearly, when Ranieri and Kenyon met with Robben, they told him something that changed his mind. The money probably turned his head as well, but I think Robben had to realize that the money would eventually come anyway, and that at this stage, picking the right club was more important.

Actually, Robben was pretty much assured a starting spot and got a guarentee to play certain number of games. That was the difference maker, not the money, Robben probably could have waited after the Euro 2004 and ask for twice as much..

I ll add a few German Prospects to the one mentioned already.

One should add Volz of Fulham to the German list, is a very good prospect. Two other half - german prospects I really linke are Gambino from Dortmund and Delura von Schalke.

I hope Piotr Trochowski will have a breakthrough season. He skillwise the most talented German player, so it will be more than difficult to secure playing time in the Bayern midfield.

As we are still argueing about the birthday cutoff Tim Wiese who was born in December 81 could be on the list as goalkeeper. He is superb on the line and with reactions, so he still has to learn a lot in terms of cotrolling his box.

Actually, Robben was pretty much assured a starting spot and got a guarentee to play certain number of games. .

Ouch, that might not have been the smartest thing to do since a new manager (then unknown) was coming in. I'm confident, though, that even Duff can't keep Robben out of the Chelsea line-up. So far in Euro, no player has had two games better than the two Robben played. Absolutely magnificient. Although I agree, getting a right winger might have been smarter, but I think few have the potential and ability of Robben (and if they do, they don't want to come--I'm looking at you Joaquin!).

EDIT: sorry for the tangent, I'm done now :D

i'm in to help for the german league, because the two german guys already mentioned lots of players who aren't even eligible for the german ranking like volz, hitzlsberger and so on and someone needs to control them. :lol

where do we talk about the league prospects? in extra-threads? because if we try to do it here, it would be a mess.

Is Gilardino a a second striker (support striker, eg. Totti) or a first striker (pure striker, eg. Vieri)?

Pure striker, like Vieri.

Do we class Owen Hargreaves the 1/3 German, Canadian and English kid as a prospect.

Do we class Owen Hargreaves the 1/3 German, Canadian and English kid as a prospect.
Hargreaves is born on 20/1/81 so i guess he won't be elegible.
As for his nationality, it doesn't matter. Since he played his last season with Munchen, if elegible, he should have been put in the German league' lists.

Is Gilardino a a second striker (support striker, eg. Totti) or a first striker (pure striker, eg. Vieri)?
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=63911

One should add Volz of Fulham to the German list, is a very good prospect.
Then he would be elegible for the English league prospects list, not for the German one.

If you still need some help on prospects, i can help on the french league.
Good! There is not a fixed limit for the help hopefully provided by the posters..
So take care of the supposed rules explained in the thread starter (and in further posts) and start working on your list for the French league!

I will try to work something out from the leagues I am much more familiar with.
Fine! Can we count on you for both the French league and serieA? or which else league were you meaning?

Fine! Can we count on you for both the French league and serieA? or which else league were you meaning?

As I am living in England, I will have a look to the leagues of this country. So France, England and Italy if it is ok.
I got names all over my head now, will be fun to try to sort them out! Great idea Helicecopter!

As I am living in England, I will have a look to the leagues of this country. So France, England and Italy if it is ok.
I got names all over my head now, will be fun to try to sort them out! Great idea Helicecopter!

So you will do three lists!? :eek: good work!!! :yo:

PLEASE READ!(and tell me..)


where do we talk about the league prospects? in extra-threads? because if we try to do it here, it would be a mess.
That's a good question.
I think this thread should be used only to define the rules, to get partecipations and to organize the whole process.
(BTW, no one has still expressed his opinion about the birthdate deadline for elegibility, i'm referring to one of my previous posts; i guess that one should be the first thing that needs to be fixed.)
As for where discussing about prospects and posting the lists, i'd like to take some suggestion by mods (BF?), but this is my guess:
Since this is not a soccer board only, i don't think it would be the best thing to do to start a thread for every European league where to post its rankings; nor doing it even while keeping together in one thread some minor leagues, say for example North European ones like Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Finland..of course it would be easier to consult the rankings while preparing our own overall list, but it would fill the board with soccer related threads with pretty rare posts spread along more than a month.
So what i suggest to avoid the feared mess is ONE (sticky?) thread dedicated to the leagues' rankings, strictly made up by lists only (with players' descriptions, of course), and another one dedicated to prospects discussions, where to posts comments about the lists, eventual questions and further explanations.
Also, we should decide when starting the rankings thread (as soon as someone is ready to post the first list i guess..); I think the prospects' discussions thread should open later and should be used by posters when trying to compile their overall ranking, so after some leagues' lists have been provided.
This is because as for leagues' ranks i think it's better to get lists not influenced by each other opinions since everyone making it for his local league had the opportunity to directly see the players and so can do it relying only on what HE saw/thinks.

Comments?



i'm in to help for the german league, because the two german guys already mentioned lots of players who aren't even eligible for the german ranking like volz, hitzlsberger and so on and someone needs to control them. :lol
First of all, is good to know you'll provide your ranking for the German leagues!

As for the rest, i want to say some things:
-the more contributions we have, the more info we should get as far as everyone posting take care of the rules.
-i hope and i'm confident everyone posting a list will take care and check players elegibility before releasing it.
- everyone will have the opportunity to edit his list to correct eventual mistakes/missings.
- it would help if above the list the writer will clarify how much closely he followed that league.
- in the end, while consulting others' lists to compile his own overall ranking, everyone will have the opportunity to decide which lists he trusts more, basing on the apparent accuracy it shows or/and the name of the author. (obviously a poster whose ranking gets no recognition by others could look like a genius down the years.. :jump: )

as for the deadline:

as far as i know players up to the age of 23 can play for their U-21 team. at least some can. :)

so maybe a deadline in 1981 would make more sense, so every U-21 player can be considered a prospects.

as for the deadline:

as far as i know players up to the age of 23 can play for their U-21 team. at least some can. :)

so maybe a deadline in 1981 would make more sense, so every U-21 player can be considered a prospects.
mmmh..for the reasons i said before..
'..anticipating that deadline would meant adding many players, many profiles. So we would end up doing longer ranks ( adding, say, maybe 10 players to your league's list and many more to your overall ranking) with some more effort required.
Also, someone could make a case for becoming even more difficult to compare 17/18yrs olders with '81 guys.
For these reasons i suggest if the deadline is moved it shouldn't allow 23yrs older to be considerated anyway. This means i could live with a 1st July '81 deadline and no further anticipation.'
..i would not like to anticipate the deadline further than 1st July '81.(all 23yrs older not available)
Anyway we will see (hopefully soon!) what other porters think... :help:

In the list, should we include the name of the clubs they are playing for and their nationality alongside their own names and their dates of birth ?
Probably most of us were going to do so but I think these are important informations. It could help out as well to state if any of those young players have been transferred during this offseason.
BTW I would be happy if we kept the 82 deadline.

Thanks popperBOLT and ParisSaintGermain for expressing your opinions on the deadline.

As for the lists, everyone should at least provide teams and nationality along with the birthdate, of course. ;)

Feel free to add as many infos as you like, next team would be nice.
Anyway, it shouldn't be seen as something necessary as i don't want people who are not so up to date with infos to avoid to do it at all because of that..

Cristiano Ronaldo you should be contender for the number one spot

Cristiano Ronaldo you should be contender for the number one spot

No he should not. He is a good talent, but some people vastly overrate him...

No he should not. He is a good talent, but some people vastly overrate him...
:bow:

PLEASE READ!(and tell me..)



That's a good question.
I think this thread should be used only to define the rules, to get partecipations and to organize the whole process.
(BTW, no one has still expressed his opinion about the birthdate deadline for elegibility, i'm referring to one of my previous posts; i guess that one should be the first thing that needs to be fixed.)
As for where discussing about prospects and posting the lists, i'd like to take some suggestion by mods (BF?), but this is my guess:
Since this is not a soccer board only, i don't think it would be the best thing to do to start a thread for every European league where to post its rankings; nor doing it even while keeping together in one thread some minor leagues, say for example North European ones like Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Finland..of course it would be easier to consult the rankings while preparing our own overall list, but it would fill the board with soccer related threads with pretty rare posts spread along more than a month.
So what i suggest to avoid the feared mess is ONE (sticky?) thread dedicated to the leagues' rankings, strictly made up by lists only (with players' descriptions, of course), and another one dedicated to prospects discussions, where to posts comments about the lists, eventual questions and further explanations.
Also, we should decide when starting the rankings thread (as soon as someone is ready to post the first list i guess..); I think the prospects' discussions thread should open later and should be used by posters when trying to compile their overall ranking, so after some leagues' lists have been provided.
This is because as for leagues' ranks i think it's better to get lists not influenced by each other opinions since everyone making it for his local league had the opportunity to directly see the players and so can do it relying only on what HE saw/thinks.

Comments?


_For the Eligibility Birthday question:
I would personally opt for the 1/1/1981 deadline for availability. The reason is that in some countries, I'm thinking of Germany and Belgium in particular, players seem to develop at a slower pace, mostly because the clubs don't like ûtting 17 year old guys in the lineup for some reason.

_As for the number of threads, I think there are two options:
A.Either we keep most of the action in this thread (we decide who will take care of what league) and than let those in charga of the respective leagues communicate via PM once the leagues are assigned
B.The one you suggested seems like an even better idea, one thread for discussing, and when everything is done, one thread with the rankings where we can all debate to the fullest (Ronaldo over Le Tallec BOOOO etc, etc ;))
Since we're pretty avid posters I don't think it should be a sticky, we'll see that later.
But so I suggest we assign the leagues in this thread and then decide what to do.




As for the rest, i want to say some things:
-the more contributions we have, the more info we should get as far as everyone posting take care of the rules.
-i hope and i'm confident everyone posting a list will take care and check players elegibility before releasing it.
- everyone will have the opportunity to edit his list to correct eventual mistakes/missings.
- it would help if above the list the writer will clarify how much closely he followed that league.
- in the end, while consulting others' lists to compile his own overall ranking, everyone will have the opportunity to decide which lists he trusts more, basing on the apparent accuracy it shows or/and the name of the author. (obviously a poster whose ranking gets no recognition by others could look like a genius down the years.. :jump: )

I don't have many comments to add to this. I think it will be fun to do, and we can still alter the system once we are set to go.



And now it's back to tax law for me :(

Thanks Belgian Fan!



_For the Eligibility Birthday question:
I would personally opt for the 1/1/1981 deadline for availability. The reason is that in some countries, I'm thinking of Germany and Belgium in particular, players seem to develop at a slower pace, mostly because the clubs don't like ûtting 17 year old guys in the lineup for some reason.
So far we have 4 votes pro 1/1/1982, 2 for 1/1/1981 and 0 for 1/7/1982 (could still be valid as a compromise solution imo).
Many guys who are supposed to contribute still have not expressed their opinion; for this reason i guess they don't care much which will be the chosen option, so we could soon proceed as votes suggest..




_As for the number of threads, I think there are two options:
A.Either we keep most of the action in this thread (we decide who will take care of what league) and than let those in charga of the respective leagues communicate via PM once the leagues are assigned
B.The one you suggested seems like an even better idea, one thread for discussing, and when everything is done, one thread with the rankings where we can all debate to the fullest (Ronaldo over Le Tallec BOOOO etc, etc ;))

:confused:
I'm not sure what you mean, i was suggesting one thread for rankings only and a parallel one for discussions and questions about the posted lists (for both the leagues' lists and, later, the overall ones.)
The purpose would be keeping clean the thread with the rankings to make easier to consult the lists.
No need for discussions about prospects before posting the leagues' lists imo, i'd like everyone makes his list just on his own feelings.
Anyway, since we both like the option with two separated thread i think that's (which ever we decide it is!) the way to go.



_
But so I suggest we assign the leagues in this thread and then decide what to do.

Definitely.

So far we have:

Me, Bubbles, PSG, Fighter..----------------------for serieA
PSG, Evilo, Catala, Naoned Citizen---------------for the French league
Modano=Dud,DutchLeafsfan,Frolov 6'3---------for the Dutch league
Belgian fan -------------------------------------for Belgian league
popperBOLT,Coppo,BF,PSG,OneSpeedOnly,Juni-----for the Premiership
Strizzi ------------------------------------------for the Swiss league
Zecke26,Strizzi, TomACE?, EHCler?GermanGirl------for Germany
Sampe,-----------------------------------------for Finland
RoyIsALegend-----------------------------------for Portugal
RoyIsALegend-----------------------------------for Spain
Mole-------------------------------------------for Denmark
Rangers?? --------------------------------------for Norway
zecke26----------------------------------------for Sweden
popperBOLT-------------------------------------for Austria

The question mark is in place for those guys i guess are going to do it, but who still didn't clarify they are in.(please do it :) )

I hope we will find some Swedes for their leagues,there are many on these boards..
Predatore?, Riddarn? others?
Also would be fine find at least one more reporter for an important league like the sSpanish one! Chances?

Anyone knows about chances for Rangers (Norway) and Mole (Denmark)??

:jump:

Anyone knows about chances for Rangers (Norway) and Mole (Denmark)??

:jump:


I think Rangers will help you out if you ask him nicely.
The problem is that Mole doesn't post here that often, you can try to reach him via PM but the chances are rather slim I would say.

I'm in, sorry for not being clear enough.
As for the deadline for birth date, I have no preference.
BTW, as Belgian brought Le Tallec in dicussion, I would guess I don't have to rank him? (he played in Le Havre a full year ago)
Obviously, he played more in Le Havre than in Liverpool, which will somewhat damage his ranking.
What's the policy on that? Is it, as you said, where the player used to play LAST year?

I'm in, sorry for not being clear enough.
As for the deadline for birth date, I have no preference.
OK!


BTW, as Belgian brought Le Tallec in discussion, I would guess I don't have to rank him? (he played in Le Havre a full year ago)
Obviously, he played more in Le Havre than in Liverpool, which will somewhat damage his ranking.
What's the policy on that? Is it, as you said, where the player used to play LAST year?
Of course the general rule is the player belongs to the league where he played last season. But we could make some exceptions when worthy. If i guess right, here, Le Tallec played in France till 2003 and is Liverpool property since then; how few games did he play in Liverpool? We could decide for a rule that states a foreign player belongs to the league where he played this past season only if he has appeared there at least in 15 games ( counting also eventual former seasons there).
Anyway, i say we use this thread to decide for particular situations, be it by establishing a general rule (like 15 appearances for example) or just by discussing single situations.
The only important thing is to find an agreement which ever it is. Also, nothing would prevent us from decide to make a particular player elegible for more than one league.
Thoughts?

BTW Evilo, i have another guy up for discussion: Ibrahim Razak.
The problem here is i just don't know where he played this past season!
The guy is(was?) Empoli's property, played there in the junior squad during 01/02, was loaned to Saint Etienne for 02/03 (2nd French division i think) and back to Empoli for 03/04; in September he had injury problems and since then he was nowhere to be found. He never played for Empoli last season. I could rate him anyway, but i wonder if someone knows where/if he played this year. :huh:

The question mark is in place for those guys i guess are going to do it, but who still didn't clarify they are in.(please do it :) )

I'm in..

I'm in..
Fine. It would have been a jeer not to have a single Dutch covering his leagues after all the talks during Euro04 about the Dutch team! :rolly:

I'm in..

Ditto.

I think Rangers will help you out if you ask him nicely.
ehm..it's Rangers who requires particular attentions or it is that you think i am usually not kind enough while asking?? :dunce:
I will try my best!



The problem is that Mole doesn't post here that often, you can try to reach him via PM but the chances are rather slim I would say.
I've just sent to him a PM!


btw, since you didn't reply to the part:
' I'm not sure what you mean, i was suggesting one thread for rankings only and a parallel one for discussions and questions about the posted lists (for both the leagues' lists and, later, the overall ones.)
The purpose would be keeping clean the thread with the rankings to make easier to consult the lists.
No need for discussions about prospects before posting the leagues' lists imo, i'd like everyone makes his list just on his own feelings '
i assume we agree :)

I won't make a list as my English is not good enough to explain my list or analyze the players.

I will however be a consultant for my fellow Germans!
(that means: making sure they don't let my favourite prospect off the list) :D

I won't make a list as my English is not good enough to explain my list or analyze the players.

I will however be a consultant for my fellow Germans!
(that means: making sure they don't let my favourite prospect off the list) :D
Your English looks to me good enough to make a ranking with few comments! :)
So find a better excuse!! :razz:

Maktakje....

Your English looks to me good enough to make a ranking with few comments! :)
So find a better excuse!! :razz:

Hey sweetie, you don't know how much time I needed to write those three sentences down!

Ok, I'll try my best! :yo:

Hey sweetie, you don't know how much time I needed to write those three sentences down!

Ok, I'll try my best! :yo:
Fine!
Also, doing it should help to improve your English writing speed! :D

I guess I could help out, but I don't have loads of time here in July, I'm moving house in a few days and after that will either be going on holiday for a bit or looking for a job..
Then again, it's not like my list will need to be very long.. :rolleyes:
Right, so depending on your time you could make a brief, or a very brief, or a very very brief ranking for the Danish league! ;)

btw, anyone knows Norwegian??


Maktakje....
:huh:

OK!



Of course the general rule is the player belongs to the league where he played last season. But we could make some exceptions when worthy. If i guess right, here, Le Tallec played in France till 2003 and is Liverpool property since then; how few games did he play in Liverpool? We could decide for a rule that states a foreign player belongs to the league where he played this past season only if he has appeared there at least in 15 games ( counting also eventual former seasons there).
Anyway, i say we use this thread to decide for particular situations, be it by establishing a general rule (like 15 appearances for example) or just by discussing single situations.
The only important thing is to find an agreement which ever it is. Also, nothing would prevent us from decide to make a particular player elegible for more than one league.
Thoughts?

BTW Evilo, i have another guy up for discussion: Ibrahim Razak.
The problem here is i just don't know where he played this past season!
The guy is(was?) Empoli's property, played there in the junior squad during 01/02, was loaned to Saint Etienne for 02/03 (2nd French division i think) and back to Empoli for 03/04; in September he had injury problems and since then he was nowhere to be found. He never played for Empoli last season. I could rate him anyway, but i wonder if someone knows where/if he played this year. :huh:
No trace of him after his St Etienne stay either here in France.:dunno:
I'm fine with the 15 games mark.
We should maybe push that to half a season (20 games?).

Maktakje....
Absolument!

I won't make a list as my English is not good enough to explain my list or analyze the players.

I will however be a consultant for my fellow Germans!
(that means: making sure they don't let my favourite prospect off the list) :D

I won't have the time to make a list. Nevertheless, the germans have two consultans now. :eek:

Oh yes and my first work will be to cut that diver Gambino off any list. :madfire:

We could decide for a rule that states a foreign player belongs to the league where he played this past season only if he has appeared there at least in 15 games ( counting also eventual former seasons there).


I am not very much for any game's limitation. By doing so we may bypass some solid prospects: For example by seting up this rule you would discount a guy like Fabregas (Arsenal) who is a tremendous prospect for spanish football but who has barely played a game in any of the spanish or the english leagues. I really think this would be a shame as I hope that one aspect of the list is to discover new and fairly unknown players.

if no one wants to cover sweden, i'd do it. i always wanted to follow the swedish league, so this would be a damn good possibility to finally do it. ;)

and i ask predatore many questions as they days go by, so a few more questions won't kill him. :lol

if no one wants to cover sweden, i'd do it. i always wanted to follow the swedish league, so this would be a damn good possibility to finally do it. ;)

and i ask predatore many questions as they days go by, so a few more questions won't kill him. :lol

I can help out as well. Just send any questions and let's see if I can help with them. Although I will be gone with no internet access for a week after next thursday.

I hope that one aspect of the list is to discover new and fairly unknown players.
Don't worry, that is one of the main goals of this project, that's for sure. ;)



I am not very much for any game's limitation. By doing so we may bypass some solid prospects: For example by seting up this rule you would discount a guy like Fabregas (Arsenal) who is a tremendous prospect for spanish football but who has barely played a game in any of the spanish or the english leagues. I really think this would be a shame...
No, no, the eventual games limitation doesn't affect the whole elegibility of the prospect. ANY players born later than the birthdate deadline would be elegible for at least one country's lists if they have played in Europe last season.
The 15 games mark would be just a try to help deciding for WHICH league the player would be elegible in particular situations (see previous posts by me and Evilo..), like for example Fabregas.
If i understand well he is Spanish, but was in Arsenal system last season (or for more seasons?) without seeing any action with the big club. The question is if it's better to put him in the English lists than in the Spanish ones.... ?
The 15(20) games mark would imply here that he would be elegible for the Spanish lists since he has not played more than 15(20) in the foreign league, the Premiership.
Making this kind of players elegible for both lists is also an option.
Another one is discussing single particular cases, one at a time. For example for Fabregas could be argued that we have so far only one guy ready to rate the Spanish leagues and many more ready to contribute for the Premiership, so we would probably get more info on him making him elegible for the latter.
We just should decide something we are pretty confortable with..

Absolument!
mmmh... absolument=absolutely, right?
so, absolutely yes? or absolutely not?? :shakehead

if no one wants to cover sweden, i'd do it. i always wanted to follow the swedish league, so this would be a damn good possibility to finally do it. ;)
ehm..i think you should have been already following the Swedish league at least this past season to be able to do it, don't you?
Or i'm just misunderstanding? :innocent:


and i ask predatore many questions as they days go by, so a few more questions won't kill him. :lol
No chances for Predatore to make his own list for the Swedish leagues??
Anyway, if we won't have anyone from Sweden compiling a list it would be definitely better than nothing to have someone like you making a list after collecting infos provided by some Swedish users.. ;)

mmmh... absolument=absolutely, right?
so, absolutely yes? or absolutely not?? :shakehead
I don't speak norwegian... I was only kidding around...

ehm..i think you should have been already following the Swedish league at least this past season to be able to do it, don't you?
Or i'm just misunderstanding? :innocent:


true, but it isn't hard to find the prospects in sweden for last season, because most swedish prospects play elsewhere. i know a bit about the swedish U-21 team and guys like isaksson, who should be the top-ranked prospects in sweden.


No chances for Predatore to make his own list for the Swedish leagues??
Anyway, if we won't have anyone from Sweden compiling a list it would be definitely better than nothing to have someone like you making a list after collecting infos provided by some Swedish users.. ;)

i don't know if he has enough time, but i will ask him. :)

true, but it isn't hard to find the prospects in sweden for last season, because most swedish prospects play elsewhere. i know a bit about the swedish U-21 team and guys like isaksson, who should be the top-ranked prospects in sweden.
Keep in mind that the prospects to be considered for the Swedish list are the ones who PLAYED last season IN Sweden! Those who played elsewhere will be elegible for the leagues' lists where they played.

i don't know if he has enough time, but i will ask him. :)
Fine! i hope for a positive answer!

Keep in mind that the prospects to be considered for the Swedish list are the ones who PLAYED last season IN Sweden! Those who played elsewhere will be elegible for the leagues' lists where they played.


that's why i mentioned isaksson who played IN sweden LAST season. ;)

i just noticed that isaksson is too old, by three month, so he won't be on top of the list. :)

a problem is that sweden has a summer league, so i think only players should be available who played in sweden from january 2004 to juli 2004. then most youngsters will leave towards other euro leagues.

i just noticed that isaksson is too old, by three month, so he won't be on top of the list. :)
Well, he was born on 3rd October '81 so it's still not sure he won't be elegible.
Anyway, It should be time to decide something...


a problem is that sweden has a summer league, so i think only players should be available who played in sweden from january 2004 to juli 2004. then most youngsters will leave towards other euro leagues.
:rolleyes:
I don't see the problem, players who played there until July 2004 are elegible for the Swedish league list, of course.

well.... DECIDE! :propeller

as I said, 1/1/82 would be perfect.. with x/x/'81 there would be too many players and IMO too many already known players..
I wanna see some new talents which I'm not (that) aware of (grammar?haha)

1/1/82 please! I am finalising three lists of 15 players each based on this and I don't think I really want to have to include 81's players now!!

Well I'm absolutely against the 1/1/1982 cut-off date, 'cause I'd love to see how Mika Väyrynen (born December 28, 1981) would fare in the Dutch lists. U23 for me! :)

1/1/1982

1/1/1982
yep.

Well I'm absolutely against the 1/1/1982 cut-off date, 'cause I'd love to see how Mika Väyrynen (born December 28, 1981) would fare in the Dutch lists. U23 for me! :)

how about 12/28/81 as deadline? then everyone should be happy. :D

how about 12/28/81 as deadline? then everyone should be happy. :D

Sounds good! :naughty:

Time to move on.

I’ve counted 5 votes for 1/1/82 and only 3 for 1/1/81; also, the more passionates on the subject (popperBOLT and PSG) were behind the 1/1/82 deadline, so the discussion is over and that's the deadline.
Also, if no one has problems with this, i'll say to you that i've in my hands a birth certificate that states Mika Väyrynen was born on 1/1/82; :D
hopefully there won't be further exceptions..

Speaking of players with particular situations, i've decided that if a prospect has played less than 20 games since leaving his country (or the league where he has grown) he will be elegible for BOTH leagues.
If like i think (correct me if i'm wrong) Fabregas and Le Tallec have played less than 20 games with the big team in England, they will be elegible respectively for the Spanish and the French league lists too.
Razak will be elegible for both Italian and French lists.
Another player i want to signal is Henok Goitom. The guy is Swedish and was acquired last summer by Udinese. He went down to injury before the season started and he never returned (at leats with the main club he NEVER played). I won't rate him for the Italian league and he will be elegible for the Swedish list.

Oh, and i'm going to start soon the new thread where to post the rankings since PSG said he has almost completed his three lists! :amazed:

I haven't started yet!
I will try to do mine this weekend...

Ok, now the appropriate thread where to post all the rankings is available! :jump:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=89635

Hopefully many lists will appear there soon or late! :yo:


By the way, i think we should try to keep comments as well as questions, futher explanations and discussions in this old thread.

Great to see the first list posted! and in a proper manner.
Good job PSG! :handclap:
Agree with several comments.

I'm in. I'll try to make my frnch league list this week end.
Be prepared to hear about Claudiu Keseru, Jimmy Briand, Jérémy Menez or Hatem Benarfa

I'm in. I'll try to make my frnch league list this week end.

Great! :handclap:

So I don't rank Aliadière, Folly, Clichy?
Why not ranking Clichy? for what i know he played 12 games in the Premiership since joining so i think he is elegible for both leagues.
As for the other two i don't know, but just follow the same criterion (less than 20 games..)

Explanations about Davide Chiumiento:

I did consider him but I decided to pick only the guys I had seen play in competitive games before and this was a list with more than 20 names already so I took the decision to bypass him and some others like Eliakwu (Inter), Rossi (Parma now Man Utd) or Delgado (Lazio).
This means that unfortunately you will not find Senderos (Arsenal) in my english list as I only see him played in a testimonial game. I hope my criteria isn't bad luck for the potentially excellent swiss prospects!

So...if we feel the urge to discuss players mentioned on the lists, this is the thread for it. Right?

Because I feel the urge to mention Arsenal's Cesc once again. I had the pleasure of watching him and Real Madrid's Jurado play together in the U-17 Word Champs last year and they were just pure magic. Even Brazil chose to rely on a defensive counter-attack tactic against them! (sadly, it worked...)

I'm telling you, Spain will be stronger than perhaps ever before in the next decade. :eek:

About Chiumento again: Juventus has today decided to loan him to Siena for next season.

Why not ranking Clichy? for what i know he played 12 games in the Premiership since joining so i think he is elegible for both leagues.
As for the other two i don't know, but just follow the same criterion (less than 20 games..)
Because they haven't played in the french league... :)

My list is posted.
45 players. 45 true talents.

My list is posted.
45 players. 45 true talents.

:handclap:
Excellent in deep list Evilo. Great work!
A few things surprised me, especially in the top selections. But to be honest, I am biaised as I am not so enthusiastic with Sinama-Pongolle or Le Tallec. Sure they are young and the potential is immense but they have a bit of a mountain to climb at Liverpool. Was it the right move for them?
Don't be surprised if Grax doesn't appear in my list. In the games I watched, he shown such poor finishing that I was hoping for anyone else to come in as substitute.

Yeah I'm high on both Le Tallec and Sinama-Pongolle.
Sure the Liverpool signing wasn't the good way, and we all knew it two years ago already. And now burried behind Baros, Owen and Cissé, it seems a big mountain to climb.
But apart from Cissé (that I would rank higher), I haven't seen such talent in french football since Zidane. Of course with different qualities. And yes, it includes Henry.
IMO Cissé is faster than Henry, and has better finishing skills. He doesn't have the dribbling skills, but he has the better character to succeed.
And the cousins have too much talent. Sinama is all about speed, and Le Tallec is just the perfect "9 and a half".
Remember the "retourné" he scored against England at Wembley in the under 17 semis final (4-0 win)? How many players would try that in front of a packed Wembley stadium at 17 years old in a first international competition and STILL make it?
I knew that day we had a jewel in our hands.
Of course the decision to move to Liverpool was stupid.
I expect both to be loaned somewhere though or finally be used. Because they'll be too good to sit on the bench.
Funny how our three top players of the future are all Liverpool signees.
Do they expect us to become fans of the Reds or what?

:handclap:
Excellent in deep list Evilo. Great work!

Thanks BTW.

Don't be surprised if Grax doesn't appear in my list. In the games I watched, he shown such poor finishing that I was hoping for anyone else to come in as substitute.
Oh french football is soooo deep, the talent pool among youngsters is so impressive that I wouldn't be surprised to see half of my list out of your list and Naoned Citizen's and replaced by some guys I either left out at the last moment (I had something like 60 names) or don't even know about.

So...if we feel the urge to discuss players mentioned on the lists, this is the thread for it. Right?

Yes, it is! ;)

Count me out for now, because I don't have the explicit knowledge of all young German talents (incl. foreign talents in Germany.) Maybe after I finished the semester I'll be able to give you a list.

My list is posted.
45 players. 45 true talents.
Great to see a top 45 posted! :rolly:
What's funny is that while trying to list the players that will make my list yesterday i was just thinking about doing a top 45 as well. Anyway i won't have enough time to write descriptions in these days and i guess i will post it around 25,26 of July, so it could still change..

Speaking of your list, i was a bit surprised to see Mido not higher than 22nd.
Having seen nothing of the majority of the players ranked above him i'm wondering about the reasons: has he been so disappointing so far or it's just because you are really high on 21 guys?

Why not ranking Clichy? for what i know he played 12 games in the Premiership since joining so i think he is elegible for both leagues.
As for the other two i don't know, but just follow the same criterion (less than 20 games..)


Because they haven't played in the french league... :)

:confused:

i fear there have been a misunderstanding. A player who joins a foreign league and doesn't play there (with the big) 20 games in the national championship will be elegible also for the league's lists where he played before or for the country's lists where he has grown playing soccer.
So:
If Clichy never played with the big team in France but was in France playing as a junior (in juveniles teams) before joining Premiership, he is elegible for French lists too!
If Clichy was playing in the Finnish league before joining Premiership, he would be elegible for the finnish lists too.
If Clichy was grown in England playing with Arsenal juveniles for years (let's say, before turning 17) then it's right, he is elegible only for the English lists.

Speaking of your list, i was a bit surprised to see Mido not higher than 22nd.
Having seen nothing of the majority of the players ranked above him i'm wondering about the reasons: has he been so disappointing so far or it's just because you are really high on 21 guys?
I'm not that high on Mido because mainly of his character. He's also not a great finisher.
And yes there are a lot of guys I'm high on before Mido.

:confused:

i fear there have been a misunderstanding. A player who joins a foreign league and doesn't play there (with the big) 20 games in the national championship will be elegible also for the league's lists where he played before or for the country's lists where he has grown playing soccer.
So:
If Clichy never played with the big team in France but was in France playing as a junior (in juveniles teams) before joining Premiership, he is elegible for French lists too!
If Clichy was playing in the Finnish league before joining Premiership, he would be elegible for the finnish lists too.
If Clichy was grown in England playing with Arsenal juveniles for years (let's say, before turning 17) then it's right, he is elegible only for the English lists.
OK I'll edit my list then. Should be around top 50 now...

Speaking of your list, i was a bit surprised to see Mido not higher than 22nd.
Having seen nothing of the majority of the players ranked above him i'm wondering about the reasons: has he been so disappointing so far or it's just because you are really high on 21 guys?

Mido will not figure on my list. Aside from his football hability (which isn't tremendous IMO anyway ), to have already been in 3, 4 or 5 different clubs, spending quite a lot of time on the bench on those teams, involved in conflicts with managers make me think more of a liability than a prospect. For me, the downside has far too much outplayed the upside in his case.

Oh french football is soooo deep, the talent pool among youngsters is so impressive that I wouldn't be surprised to see half of my list out of your list and Naoned Citizen's and replaced by some guys I either left out at the last moment (I had something like 60 names) or don't even know about.

I am not so sure that the talent is that deep. But it is promising, I totallly agree, with some good high end prospects.
I don't think you will find any new names on my list. It will be 15 players and one wildcard. But the order might be slightly different than yours so it should trigger some interesting discussions. ;)

OK I'll edit my list then. Should be around top 50 now...
Ok!

hey, but have you considered Petr Cech while making your list??
And on a minor note, Razak?

Just edited some details about Donadel in my italian list. The under 21 player will be with Sampdoria next season.

Ok!

hey, but have you considered Petr Cech while making your list??
And on a minor note, Razak?
OK my new list has 65 names on it!
And no I didn't count Cech.
He would be top 5 probably.

oh and Razak, no he didn't crack my list.

I am not so sure that the talent is that deep. But it is promising, I totallly agree, with some good high end prospects.
I don't think you will find any new names on my list. It will be 15 players and one wildcard. But the order might be slightly different than yours so it should trigger some interesting discussions. ;)
Well the 84-85-86 and 87 generations are probably the most exciting ever for France.

Well the 84-85-86 and 87 generations are probably the most exciting ever for France.

I surely am impatient and optimistic to see how they will pan out. I wish the coaching and management of those kids will be at the highest level.
I hope that most of the prospects will not go abroad too early. The french league can offer them good development.

I'll add a wild card.

Well, i really don't want to be a pain in the neck for guys who are putting a lot of effort into this thing, so please take all my (past, present, future) requires for editing just for what they are meant; their only purpose is trying to make this thing work as better as possible. Now, here is what i'm going to argue this time:

And no I didn't count Cech.He would be top 5 probably.
Cech is elegible for the French list + you think he would be top 5 in your list =i say, put him in your list!

The only thing that should prevent you guys from ranking an elegible player is thinking all the other youngsters you put on your list are better prospects than him!


OK my new list has 65 names on it!
No need to extend your list this time.
I think guys like Meghni and Aubameyang should not be elegible for the French list.
Let's take Meghni which is the most important example. True, he has played just 19 games in Italian leagues since leaving for Italy, but he left France when he had barely turned 16 and has already spent 4 full seasons with Bologna.
I'm trusting your patience here, Evilo;
I would add a caveat to the elegibility rules:
if the player joined the foreign country before turning 18 and spent there at least three full seasons, he won't be elegible for his native land's lists no matter how many games he has played abroad (even if he had played less than 20 games in the foreign leagues).
For those who find this complicated, don't worry, it should apply to few cases.
The purpose is to not force guys to rank players they can't know enough ( like French guys for Meghni); No need to do that WHEN (like it is for Meghni and that category of players) guys covering other countries have the opportunity to do a decent (and probably better) job ranking them for their leagues.

Take Aubameyang, he came in Italy when he was just a child..

Applying this further rule, speaking of French players in Italy, we have:
Meghni and Aubameyang elegible only for Italian lists.
Moreau Bonnefoi and Valmy elegible for both countries' lists
Konko to be determined, i don't know when he crossed the Alps to join Italian leagues (Genoa?)
I think Fabre is not in Italy anymore, i guess he is back in France. In that case he would be elegible only for the French lists.


OK my new list has 65 names on it!
This is the right thread to point out that. Once done here, no need imo for a similar post in the lists' thread, especially quoting the whole top 65 list!! what about deleting it? Let's try to keep that thread as cleaner as possible. For the same reason i'm going to delete from that thread some of my own posts when they won't be usefull anymore (as i did for the one where i asked for a visible country label for your list).



Two more thing.

-Even when you guys have already posted your lists, feel free to add later more lines for players you know well, especially for top prospects. Specifics about the way the prospect plays, what he can do and, even better, what he lacks, can help the reader with players he has never seen when he will have to figure out his overall ranking.

-We should pay attention to the way we write birthdates.
Let's follow this standard: day / month/ year
(not month/ day/ year, for example PSG with Cassano)



Thanks!

We should pay attention to the way we write birthdates.
Let's follow this standard: day / month/ year
(not month/ day/ year, for example PSG with Cassano)
Thanks!

I just corrected it. I'll try to pay more attention next time.
I like the way this project is shaping up. Everyone is really putting time and strong effort in this! :handclap:

Well, i really don't want to be a pain in the neck for guys who are putting a lot of effort into this thing, so please take all my (past, present, future) requires for editing just for what they are meant; their only purpose is trying to make this thing work as better as possible. Now, here is what i'm going to argue this time:


Cech is elegible for the French list + you think he would be top 5 in your list =i say, put him in your list!

The only thing that should prevent you guys from ranking an elegible player is thinking all the other youngsters you put on your list are better prospects than him!



No need to extend your list this time.
I think guys like Meghni and Aubameyang should not be elegible for the French list.
Let's take Meghni which is the most important example. True, he has played just 19 games in Italian leagues since leaving for Italy, but he left France when he had barely turned 16 and has already spent 4 full seasons with Bologna.
I'm trusting your patience here, Evilo;
I would add a caveat to the elegibility rules:
if the player joined the foreign country before turning 18 and spent there at least three full seasons, he won't be elegible for his native land's lists no matter how many games he has played abroad (even if he had played less than 20 games in the foreign leagues).
For those who find this complicated, don't worry, it should apply to few cases.
The purpose is to not force guys to rank players they can't know enough ( like French guys for Meghni); No need to do that WHEN (like it is for Meghni and that category of players) guys covering other countries have the opportunity to do a decent (and probably better) job ranking them for their leagues.

Take Aubameyang, he came in Italy when he was just a child..

Applying this further rule, speaking of French players in Italy, we have:
Meghni and Aubameyang elegible only for Italian lists.
Moreau Bonnefoi and Valmy elegible for both countries' lists
Konko to be determined, i don't know when he crossed the Alps to join Italian leagues (Genoa?)
I think Fabre is not in Italy anymore, i guess he is back in France. In that case he would be elegible only for the French lists.



This is the right thread to point out that. Once done here, no need imo for a similar post in the lists' thread, especially quoting the whole top 65 list!! what about deleting it? Let's try to keep that thread as cleaner as possible. For the same reason i'm going to delete from that thread some of my own posts when they won't be usefull anymore (as i did for the one where i asked for a visible country label for your list).



Two more thing.

-Even when you guys have already posted your lists, feel free to add later more lines for players you know well, especially for top prospects. Specifics about the way the prospect plays, what he can do and, even better, what he lacks, can help the reader with players he has never seen when he will have to figure out his overall ranking.

-We should pay attention to the way we write birthdates.
Let's follow this standard: day / month/ year
(not month/ day/ year, for example PSG with Cassano)



Thanks!
Cech has been added.
Meghni and Aubameyang have been deleted. Konko as well.
Fabre has indeed signed with Sedan. Missed that one.

For Meghni, I've seen him in french selections, that's why I ranked him so high.

ok guys, once again thanks for your attention and collaboration!

i'm wondering if we could find guys able to compile short lists for the so far missing European countries.
It would complete the picture to have:
a list for Czech, Slovakian and Polish leagues
a list for Russian leagues
a list for ex-jugoslavia-countries
a list for Greece (hey, European champions!), Rumania, Bulgaria ,Turkey, Hungary.

Anyone able to contribute for one (or more) of these countries at least for the very best prospects playing there?? :help:

I'm try to get some contribution making known the need on other countries hockey boards, too.
We should have decent chances at least for Russia and Czech Republic.

also, would be fine if someone due to make an English list could make instead a British league, taking into consideration in his ranking also prospects playing in Great Britain but outside England. If someone does it this way, just point out in the title calling it a British list instead of an English list.

Good job Naoned Citizen!

Nice to see your list already there Naoned Citizen! :thumbu:

Btw, where is Ahmed Hossam (Mido) ?? Forgotten or just not good enough in your book?

Speaking of French guys like Florent Sinama Pongolle, Anthony Le Tallec, Jérémy Toulalan, Jérémy Menez, Jérémie Aliadière.., just for curiosity, are they black or white?

Also, i didn't know there were so many Jeremys in France!

Sinama is the only black of the group I think. Toulalan I think has some Réunion origins though.

Excellent work Naoned! It is very interesting to see how differents are Evilo's and Naoned's lists. Intriguing!

they're not that different. The only difference is in the rankings, but we pretty much have the same players.

Jesper Gronekjaer moves to Birmingham City (from Chelsea).
Chelsea receives 3,3 Mio € for Gronkjaer.


source: http://de.sports.yahoo.com/040712/27/17th.html (it´s in german)

they're not that different. The only difference is in the rankings, but we pretty much have the same players.

Sorry if the meaning of my previous post was confusing and poor: what you have just said was what I meant. :blush:

No don't worry. Given the number of quality young players, I was afraid Naoned Citizen, you and me would come up with different players.
But yeah, the rankings are different, but that's to be expected. So many good players, and some of them have not played in Ligue 1 yet, so that makes the job tougher, trying to determine a player's talent after seeing him twice to four times max.

I'm a bit surprised to see Costa rated that low though, because he's one of the best talents in the league IMO, and he's been known for quite a few years, so I expected him to be no less than top 5.

Luckily the upcoming u-19 WC's are on the telly here, I'll be able to watch one or two Belgian matches, that should help me with my list. I've got most of it ready but I'm aiting to see if I haven't forgotten anyone.

I'm leaving for a week of vacation starting friday so I'll post my final list close to the deadline of 1 August

Luckily the upcoming u-19 WC's are on the telly here, I'll be able to watch one or two Belgian matches, that should help me with my list. I've got most of it ready but I'm aiting to see if I haven't forgotten anyone.


Speaking of that tourney, it starts just today. For those interested, see
http://www.uefa.com/Competitions/under19/index.html

I'm wondering if there will be any TV broadcasting the event. BF, where are you going to see Belgian matches? National TV or maybe eurosport?
(oh well, personally i won't be able to see it anyway, but for others doing lists could be interesting..)

btw, i've checked Italy's rosters and after reading the Italian team guide there on that site i've to advise to not take like gold what is said in those teams guides:
the only Italian present top prospect on the team is not even mentioned in that article!.. :shakehead

Speaking of that tourney, it starts just today. For those interested, see
http://www.uefa.com/Competitions/under19/index.html

I'm wondering if there will be any TV broadcasting the event. BF, where are you going to see Belgian matches? National TV or maybe eurosport?
(oh well, personally i won't be able to see it anyway, but for others doing lists could be interesting..)

btw, i've checked Italy's rosters and after reading the Italian team guide there on that site i've to advise to not take like gold what is said in those teams guides:
the only Italian present top prospect on the team is not even mentioned in that article!.. :shakehead

I'm not sure Eurosport has it, they carried these events in the past though so I wouldn't be surprised.
Here in Belgium the public broadcasting companyhas launched a Sports channel for this summer (Tour de France, Tennis, Athens, European Champioships soccer, ...) and they will be broadcasting the games. Too bad I can only see the first week (unless I can follow it in France due to some strange coincidence).
I think their broadcasting most of the games so I should be able to make some comments on other coutnries as well.

The games will be televised on the German Eurosport channel. Everyone who gets this (Germans for sure) will be able to watch them. I'll probably be able to watch Switzerland-Belgium on Thursday, and might catch a glance of Switzerland-Italy today.

The games will be televised on the German Eurosport channel. Everyone who gets this (Germans for sure) will be able to watch them.

No DSF or Eurosport for me! :(

Jesper Gronekjaer moves to Birmingham City (from Chelsea).
Chelsea receives 3,3 Mio € for Gronkjaer.


source: http://de.sports.yahoo.com/040712/27/17th.html (it´s in german)

ehm...how is this post related with this thread?
i guess it was due to appear in the soccer transfers news thread..

Nice to see your list already there Naoned Citizen! :thumbu:

Btw, where is Ahmed Hossam (Mido) ?? Forgotten or just not good enough in your book?

Speaking of French guys like Florent Sinama Pongolle, Anthony Le Tallec, Jérémy Toulalan, Jérémy Menez, Jérémie Aliadière.., just for curiosity, are they black or white?

Also, i didn't know there were so many Jeremys in France!

Mido, I decided to leave him out of my list. Talentwise, he should have made the list, but he is too much of a risky pick.
If he doesn't get more mature, his carreer is going nowhere. And I don't think he will. My comment was "Big talent. Small brain." ;)

Mido, I decided to leave him out of my list. Talentwise, he should have made the list, but he is too much of a risky pick.
If he doesn't get more mature, his carreer is going nowhere. And I don't think he will. My comment was "Big talent. Small brain." ;)

I would agree with that, his stop in Belgium convinced me of his talent, but also convinced me that he will probably never achieve something really big, his behaviour is equal to that of someone with a brain the size of a peanut and/or an ego the size of La Tour Eiffel. In fact I thought L'OM was a club that fitted him wel :p:

I'm a bit surprised to see Costa rated that low though, because he's one of the best talents in the league IMO, and he's been known for quite a few years, so I expected him to be no less than top 5.

Yeah, I know. But I think he has less upside than Faé and Essien.

In fact I thought L'OM was a club that fitted him wel :p:
:handclap:

:handclap:
I'll second that! :handclap:

The games will be televised on the German Eurosport channel. Everyone who gets this (Germans for sure) will be able to watch them. I'll probably be able to watch Switzerland-Belgium on Thursday, and might catch a glance of Switzerland-Italy today.

Have you got that glance?

Have you got that glance?
No, Eurosport decided to switch to some crappy 1860-Brondby preparation match after the Spain-Germany U19 game... :madfire:

Did Elmander look good?
Don't know, I switched off. Sorry...

the swiss outplayed them..
For what i know only in the second half (while chasing).

Hey BF, will you be watching tonight? I'll probably be a bit late, but I expect to catch the 2nd half.

What can you tell me about the Belgian squad? Ours is largely based on the group which won the U-17 title 2 years ago, minus 4 stars of that squad (Barnetta, Senderos, Vonlanthen, Chiumiento) who have graduated beyond the U-19. Still, people expect at least the qualification for the semifinals.

Hey BF, will you be watching tonight? I'll probably be a bit late, but I expect to catch the 2nd half.

What can you tell me about the Belgian squad? Ours is largely based on the group which won the U-17 title 2 years ago, minus 4 stars of that squad (Barnetta, Senderos, Vonlanthen, Chiumiento) who have graduated beyond the U-19. Still, people expect at least the qualification for the semifinals.


I only caught a glance of Belgium's first game (I taped it though) but from what I saw and read there's no real standouts. A typical Belgian squad actually: good as a team but not too much individual class. You'll see that they don't play an adventurous style but prefer to sit back and work the counter. In the midfield I have always liked Haroun of RC Genk, a hard worker with a touch of class at times, you'll probably notice