EC Day #12: Holland vs Latvia / Germany vs Czech Republic (GDT)

Guess I'll make the thread today, so can post my predictions in it :)

Group D standings: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/results/3734023.stm)

Holland vs Latvia

GROUP D
Venue: Braga Municipal, Braga
Date/time: Wed, 23 June, 2045 CET
Referee: Kim Milton Nielsen (Denmark)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3787547.stm


Germany vs Czech Republic

GROUP D
Venue: Jose Alvalade, Lisbon
Date/time: Wed, 23 June, 2045 CET
Referee: Terje Hauge (Norway)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3787551.stm



After getting 15 points yesterday to bump up my total to 60, my predictions (as well as hopes) for today are:

Holland - Latvia 3-0 (RvN)
Germany-Czech Republic 1-1 (Smicer)

60 for me as well..

Holland 2 - 1 Latvia (Ruud)
Germany 1 - 0 Czech Republic (Klose)

Oranje Boven

Hup Holland Hup

Hoi Hoi Hoi Hoi

Klompen Klompen!

Btw, I just read that some 40 Dutch entrepreneurs who are active in the Czech Republic will be paying each Czech to score vs Germany 1 million euros, up to a maximum of four times. :lol

Oranje Boven

Hup Holland Hup

Hoi Hoi Hoi Hoi

Klompen Klompen!

You don't have some connections to reach Terje Hauge, do you? :joker:

Okay. I'm serious about my predictions. I even have a small bet going.

Germany vs. Czech Republic: 1-4 (Lokvenc)
Holland vs. Latvia: 1-2 (Verpakovkis)

YES!!! That mean bye-bye Holland and Germany. :lol

Btw, I just read that some 40 Dutch entrepreneurs who are active in the Czech Republic will be paying each Czech to score vs Germany 1 million euros, up to a maximum of four times. :lol

I've also heard that a lot of Dutch fans have sent messages to Tomas Galasek (By SMS cell-phone) asking him to inspire his team to go for the victory.. Though don't ask me how they got his number..

You don't have some connections to reach Terje Hauge, do you? :joker:

Don`t worry. I`ve got it covered! He`s my uncle...

Oranje Boven

Hup Holland Hup

Hoi Hoi Hoi Hoi

Klompen Klompen!

:eek: rangers is that you?

No it can't be. :lol:

Okay. I'm serious about my predictions. I even have a small bet going.

Germany vs. Czech Republic: 1-4 (Lokvenc)
Holland vs. Latvia: 1-2 (Verpakovkis)

YES!!! That mean bye-bye Holland and Germany. :lol

I can live with that.. :D

BTW, Dick Advocaat has been offered asylum in amusement park "Het Land van Ooit". I am sure he would feel right at home there :lol:

Oranje Boven

Hup Holland Hup

Hoi Hoi Hoi Hoi

Klompen Klompen!

hei

Politi bil/boaten

esj

Ekte fotopapieren

ern, [forgot 2], tre, vieren, [forgot 5], sex, [forgot 7], otte, ni, ti..

Ah well.. that's all I know.. :D

Day 1
Portugal 2:1 Greece (Pauleta)
Spain 3:1 Russia (Raul)

Day 2
Swiss - Croatia 2-1 (Hakan Yakin)
France - England 3-1 (Henry)

Day 3:
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 2-1 (Larsson)

Day 4
Czech Republic 3 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)
Germany 3 : 1 Holland (M. Ballack)

Day 5
Greece 0 : 2 Spain (Raul)
Russia 0 : 2 Portugal (Pauleta)

Day 6
England 3 : 1 Switzerland (Owen)
Croatia 0 : 2 France (Henry)

Day 7
Bulgaria v Denmark 2-1 (Berbatov)
Italy v Sweden 1-2 (Larsson)

Day 8
Latvia 0 - 2 Germany (Ballack)
Holland 2- 1 Czech Republic (RVN)

Day 9
Russia 1 - 2 Greece (Charisteas)
Spain 2 - 1 Portugal (Raul)

Day 10
England - Croatia: 2-0 (Lampard)
Switzerland - France: 1-3 (Henry)

Day 11
Italy 1 - 0 Bulgaria (Casano)
Denmark 2 - 2 Sweden (Larsson)

60 Points

Day 12
Holland 2 - 0 Latvia (Ruud)
Germany 2 - 0 Czech Republic (Ballack)

Portugal v Greece: 2-0 (Figo)
Spain v Russia: 2-1 (Raul Gonzalez Blanco)
Switzerland v Croatia: 2-1 (Frei)
France v England: 1-1 (Owen)
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Czech Republic v Latvia: 3-0 (Baros)
Germany v Holland: 1-2 (Ruud)
Greece v Spain: 0-2 (F Torres)
Russia v Portugal: 1-3 (Pauleta)
England v Switzerland 2-0 (Gerrard)
Croatia v France 1-3 (Trézéguet)
Bulgaria v Denmark 0-1 (Sand)
Italy v Sweden 1-1 (Ibrahimovic)
Latvia - Germany 0-2 (Ballack)
Holland - Czech Rep 1-2 (Nedved)
Russia v Greece: 1-0 (Izmailov)
Spain v Portugal: 2-1 (F Torres)
England v Croatia: 2-1 (Owen)
Switzerland v France: 0-2 (Henry)
Italy vs Bulgaria: 2-1 (Cassano)
Denmark - Sweden: 2-2 (Larsson)

18 points for me yesterday, perfect score!!
I'm up to 69 now

Today:

Holland v Latvia: 3-0 (Ruud)
Germany v Czech Republic: 2-1 (Ballack?- tough to predict a scorer for these Germans)

Where can i track the game(s) at?

hei

Politi bil/boaten

esj

Ekte fotopapieren

ern, [forgot 2], tre, vieren, [forgot 5], sex, [forgot 7], otte, ni, ti..

Ah well.. that's all I know.. :D

en, to, tre, fire, fem, seks, sju, åtte, ni, ti.... :D

en, to, tre, fire, fem, seks, sju, åtte, ni, ti.... :D

That's it..

I was close though..

That's it..

I was close though..

Yea...I can`t understand the Norwegian dialect they speak in Bergen either. So..you did a good job.

72 points for me.

My predictions :
Czech Republic 3-0 Latvia (Van Niestelroy)
Germany 1-0 Czech Republic (Kuranyi)

DAY 1: 3 points
DAY 2: 6 points
DAY 3: 3 points
DAY 4: 6 points
DAY 5: 6 points
DAY 6: 6 points
DAY 7: 6 points
DAY 8: 3 points
DAY 9: 3 points
DAY 10: 12 points
DAY 11: 12 points
---------------------
TOTAL 66 points

Holland 3 - 0 Latvia (van Nistelrooy)
Germany 1 - 1 Czech Republic (Ballack)

66 points so far.

Day 12
Holland 3 : 1 Latvia (R. van Nistelrooy)
Germany 2 : 2 Czech Republic (M. Baros)

Well, the Czechs made 9 changes from their opening two games, which is a poor sporting move, IMHO, but what can you do....

Holland-Latvia:2-1 (Van der vaart)
Germany-Czech Rep: 1-1 (heinz)

Czech Republic 3-0 Latvia (Van Niestelroy)
Germany 1-0 Czech Republic (Kuranyi)

I guess that explains all the roster changes for the Czech - Germany match -- the poor buggers have to field 2 teams simultaneously! :joker:

2-0 Holland over Latvia thus far, both goals by Van Nistelrooy


Germany and the Czechs tied at 1.



Europe will be Oranje!

SO I guess than that there will be no complaints anymore about the refereeing??
That penalty was an absolute joke, the worst I've seen this tournament.

Not that an Oranje victory won't be deserved though.

SO I guess than that there will be no complaints anymore about the refereeing??


Undoubtedly our huge population of Latvian posters all went to the game ;).

but I don't know if the Czech 'B' defenders can hold Germany for another 45 minutes.

they are not only holding them off, the Czechs scored

LOL!!!! According to the Guardian's game log, Ballack and Schneider both have missed at least 2 sitters, and Germany's had like 3 goalmouth scrambles where they still couldn't score.

And then Baros scores. DOH!

3-0 Oranje Makaay scores in the 84th

The Dutch have been playing better than the Germans in the tournament and deserve to advance. I will be rooting for them in the tournament, love the orange baby!

LOL!!!! According to the Guardian's game log, Ballack and Schneider both have missed at least 2 sitters, and Germany's had like 3 goalmouth scrambles where they still couldn't score.

And then Baros scores. DOH!

I didn't see the entire match but I don't remember Ballack missing sitter, Schnider missed a couple though.

Then there were two possible penalties for the Germans as well.

Like I said, I don't want to her any complains anymore from Dutchies about the reffing in the tournament period.


As for the Germans, they really have a nice team to build on for 2006.

That Lahm guy played exceptionally well and has been probably the best left back in the tourney so far.
Ballack should still be around and with Metzelder back to fitness the D should be steady too. But damn, they need strikers. Kuranyi hasn't been in form, Klose just sucks and Bobic isn't a striker for this level. Germany needs to start to develop somebody to fill up Klinsmann's shoes.

WTF are they talking about.

Both Cocu and Ruud thought Holland played a fantastic match??
They beat a damn second division team with a non penalty and an offside goal!

No need for updates. I was watching the game.

I think the Czechs were pretty fortunate. If Ballack's shot is an inch the other way, it's 2-1 Germany....and not that it would have hurt the Czechs much either.

But the good guys did their job against Latvia, and they got what they deserved...a match against Sweden. :yo:

Are the matches on TSN?

I didn't see the entire match but I don't remember Ballack missing sitter, Schnider missed a couple though.

Then there were two possible penalties for the Germans as well.

Like I said, I don't want to her any complains anymore from Dutchies about the reffing in the tournament period.


As for the Germans, they really have a nice team to build on for 2006.

That Lahm guy played exceptionally well and has been probably the best left back in the tourney so far.
Ballack should still be around and with Metzelder back to fitness the D should be steady too. But damn, they need strikers. Kuranyi hasn't been in form, Klose just sucks and Bobic isn't a striker for this level. Germany needs to start to develop somebody to fill up Klinsmann's shoes.

You´re right in most of your points, but we´re going to hold back our talents like we did the last years.
We´re going to hold back Goalies like Hildebrand and Wiese and Strikers like Podolski until they´re 26 and we´re going to play Kahn, Lehmann and maybe Rost and strikers like Bobic or Brdaric.
I´m not saying that Podolski is as good as Rooney, but he scored 10 times in 19 games as an 18year old....at least he deserves a shot and not guys like Bobic who sucked in the league and are declining in their whole process.
"Our" Rudi was forced to nominate guys like Schweinsteiger and Podolski - and look at this game: Schweinsteiger was one of the more motivated and creativ guys...
But our coach needs to be forced to see the talent and to invite it...that´s our biggest problem.
Most guys are nominated because of former perfomances.
Nowotny was injured for about a year...he wasn´t good enough for Leverkusen, but he was good enough to play 90 minutes for Germany... :shakehead

I´m sick and tired of the DFB

But the good guys did their job against Latvia, and they got what they deserved...a match against Sweden. :yo:

Go Sweden Go !

Agree with BF here.
I don't want to hear dutch fans complaining about the ref anymore :)
The first goal is a gimme penalty.
The second goal is offside. Yes, they showed it, when the guy hit the freekick, Ruud was offside (not on the Cocu header obviously).
And of course the czech pushed some germans around in the penalty box, and there also was a hand not whistled that should have been a penalty against CR.
That said, there's no doubt Holland deserves to go through rather than Germany.
So all in all, well done Holland and we should see a great game against Sweden.

9 points tonight, a perfect game in Braga, but 0 points for the german loss.
72+9=81

I am on 49 after tonight... :help:

66 + 9 more points today = 75.

HOLLAND! HOLLAND!

Man I feel happy right now..

First off, I'd like to thank the Czech's for not tanking it. Galasek, Heinz and Baros, I'll be buying your jersey's tomorrow..

Here are my player observations, note that most have relatively high grades due to not being tested. I guess it's because of the quality of the opponent..

- 8/10 .. Edwin van der Sar, came up big on the few chances Latvia had.
- 7/10 .. Giovanie van Bronckhorst, suprisingly solid game for him today..
- 7/10 .. Frank de Boer, aside from one error, he's looking like his usual self.
- 8/10 .. Jaap Stam, usual self, his speed got tested and he answered the call.
- 7/10 .. Michael Reiziger, not tested defensively, but was pretty amazing on the other end. Had two hard distant shots and impressive rushes..
- 6/10 .. Philip Cocu, unnoticed, still not playing like he should
- 7/10 .. Edgar Davids, played with fire, not making any errors..
- 6/10 .. Clarence Seedorf, solid, though needs to work a bit more on his shot. I remain impressed with him.
- 8/10 .. Arjen Robben, consistent threat and had the primary assist on the winning goal. Easily deserved a goal tonight and IMO man of the match.
- 5/10 .. Andy van der Meyde, did not get by his man on a consistent base. Poor crosses.
- 8/10 .. Ruud van Nistelrooy, scored twice, was involved and was accurate.
- 6/10 .. Wesley Sneijder, didn't even notice him, though he only played 20 minutes.
- 8/10 .. Marc Overmars, and again he made his opponents looking like a fool.
- 8/10 .. Roy Makaay, scored a nice goal and made an impact in just a few minutes.

I'd like to think that the Dutch played with passion and all were extremely motivated. They all seemed to fight for eachother, even though it was against a relatively weak opponent..

And ofcourse..

"Schade Deutschland, alles ist forbei!"

HOLLAND! HOLLAND!

Man I feel happy right now..

First off, I'd like to thank the Czech's for not tanking it. Galasek, Heinz and Baros, I'll be buying your jersey's tomorrow..

Here are my player observations, note that most have relatively high grades due to not being tested. I guess it's because of the quality of the opponent..

- 8/10 .. Edwin van der Sar, came up big on the few chances Latvia had.
- 7/10 .. Giovanie van Bronckhorst, suprisingly solid game for him today..
- 7/10 .. Frank de Boer, aside from one error, he's looking like his usual self.
- 8/10 .. Jaap Stam, usual self, his speed got tested and he answered the call.
- 7/10 .. Michael Reiziger, not tested defensively, but was pretty amazing on the other end. Had two hard distant shots and impressive rushes..
- 6/10 .. Philip Cocu, unnoticed, still not playing like he should
- 7/10 .. Edgar Davids, played with fire, not making any errors..
- 6/10 .. Clarence Seedorf, solid, though needs to work a bit more on his shot. I remain impressed with him.
- 8/10 .. Arjen Robben, consistent threat and had the primary assist on the winning goal. Easily deserved a goal tonight and IMO man of the match.
- 5/10 .. Andy van der Meyde, did not get by his man on a consistent base. Poor crosses.
- 8/10 .. Ruud van Nistelrooy, scored twice, was involved and was accurate.
- 6/10 .. Wesley Sneijder, didn't even notice him, though he only played 20 minutes.
- 8/10 .. Marc Overmars, and again he made his opponents looking like a fool.
- 8/10 .. Roy Makaay, scored a nice goal and made an impact in just a few minutes.

I'd like to think that the Dutch played with passion and all were extremely motivated. They all seemed to fight for eachother, even though it was against a relatively weak opponent..

And ofcourse..

"Schade Deutschland, alles ist forbei!"
Congrats!:)

BTW, Jessica Simpson > Advocaat in terms of everything, not only soccer! ;)

Now that the confidence is back, Holland is a serious threat for any remaining teams, that is for sure.
I think Czech tonight's result is very flattering. Even if they fielded a B team tonight and that obviously can't lead to any solid conclusions, I can see that Denmark's style of play could be a problem for them. Plus, they are lucky that the balls that have hit their posts so far (3 in the last two games) have all bounced back out of their goal.

Congrats!:)

BTW, Jessica Simpson > Advocaat in terms of everything, not only soccer! ;)

Thanks..

Oh you bet, then again, you're comparing one of world's finest looking women with a fat poststamp-collecting-sweating-balding-punk.. ;)

Don`t worry. I`ve got it covered! He`s my uncle...

So...just phoned Terje and thanked him. As I told you..I had it covered all the way.

According to the current interpretation of the rule, both goals were onside. The first passes were to onside players. van Nistelrooy being in an offside position meant nothing. In both cases, van Nistelrooy was onside when the ball was given to him. That is what matters.

I disagree. RVN is clearly part of the play (The ball is played right over his head) and it should have been disallowed. The Edgar Davids penalty was of course a joke as well... Really bad reffing by the Dane (Of course).

still....Oranje Boven. Hoi Hoi Hoi

still....Oranje Boven. Hoi Hoi Hoi

Am I the only one who is starting to find this scary? :dunno:

Just like Evilo, I got a perfect game for Holland tonight, which ups my total by 9 to 69 points.

I btw think that relative to the rest of your rankings Seedorf deserves at least a 7, possibly an 8. Anyways, he should keep his starting position. Also feel that both Marc Overmars (way more dangerous than Andy) and Frank de Boer (his long passes were often right on the mark and really add something to the Dutch game) should start vs Sweden.

And yeah, the penalty was a joke. Still, these offside discussions are still puzzling me, seeing how both refs 'ignored' them. (Even though the Spanish guy was quite simply incompetent and Nielsen may have made an error)

Well, I'm already over it! :)

The teams who deserved it more are through! :handclap:

Congrats Holland, congrats Czech!

I'm not mad at my team, they did as good as they could, the German fans in the stadium applauded them for their effort, there is no need to be bitter (unless Holland wins it all of course :D )

I'm now rooting for either Denmark or the Czech to win it all!

I'm fairly optimistic for 2006, the young guys like Lahm, Friedrich and Schweinsteiger showed some promise!


I'll be in Amsterdam on Saturday and Sunday, I think it will be an awesome atmosphere there, I will pretend to be from Lichtenstein though!

Well, I think you have to fear somewhat less for your car now that Holland are through ;)

Well, I'm already over it! :)



I'll be in Amsterdam on Saturday and Sunday, I think it will be an awesome atmosphere there, I will pretend to be from Lichtenstein though!

coward
:mad:

Germany had a lot of though luck today (plus some serious finishing inability), but still I'm happy that Holland went through because they will produce more entertaining matches.

It's also clear that the Czech team yet has to prove that they can hold their own defensively, but one has to applaud them for not letting Germany walk through! :handclap:

Well, I think you have to fear somewhat less for your car now that Holland are through ;)

Yep, that's true hopefully!

Will the game be shown on a big screen somewhere in Amsterdam?

OK, ok, I won't pretend to be from Liechtenstein,I'm not a coward!!!

Am I the only one who is starting to find this scary? :dunno:

Scary? how come?

You know what's the scariest thing, every one I know wants England to win! :eek: :eek:

Soo many Germans wear jerseys of the English national team, I'm pretty sure most English would be surprised to see this!!

As for the Germans, they really have a nice team to build on for 2006.

That Lahm guy played exceptionally well and has been probably the best left back in the tourney so far.
Ballack should still be around and with Metzelder back to fitness the D should be steady too. But damn, they need strikers. Kuranyi hasn't been in form, Klose just sucks and Bobic isn't a striker for this level. Germany needs to start to develop somebody to fill up Klinsmann's shoes.
I would not say that Lahm was the best left back in the tournament (I'd give that title to #19 from Italy), but quite possibly the most promising. Add Hinkel to that, and you've got both sides covered pretty well (plus Friedrich is not that old either). Schweinsteiger will be ready to provide some more offense, and Kuranyi and Podolski will have some more time to develop. So yes, 2006 might have a much better team Germany. And who knows, maybe even Klose will learn how to score again (though he'll never be the most complete forward in the game).

10 bucks says that Overmars starts instead of Andy on Saturday...

Damn...Marc is looking good.

One thing I REALLY don't understand though is why the HELL that van der Vaart isn't playing more. He should have atleast been brought in for Cocu in the latter stages of the game.

And someone please sell Makaay a new passport...he's only good if he's standing in front of the net and someone feeds him the perfect ball. I can understand Pierre coming in for his dead ball play...but Makaay...over Kluivert just stupifies me.

All in all...we're through...that's all that matters!

ORANJE BOVEN!

Am I the only one who is starting to find this scary? :dunno:

Just like Evilo, I got a perfect game for Holland tonight, which ups my total by 9 to 69 points.

I btw think that relative to the rest of your rankings Seedorf deserves at least a 7, possibly an 8. Anyways, he should keep his starting position. Also feel that both Marc Overmars (way more dangerous than Andy) and Frank de Boer (his long passes were often right on the mark and really add something to the Dutch game) should start vs Sweden.

And yeah, the penalty was a joke. Still, these offside discussions are still puzzling me, seeing how both refs 'ignored' them. (Even though the Spanish guy was quite simply incompetent and Nielsen may have made an error)
Well the offside goal against Czech Republic was for everyone to see.
As Laurent Blanc put it yesterday, he had an unfair advantage over his defensemen, which is the reason for the offside.
But yesterday's upside was not clear to the eye of the center referee. It was much closer and was the responsability of the lineman.

You're disagreeing with FIFA and UEFA.

The goal against the Czech was onside (even though I think that is a crappy rule since he clearly draws a huge advantage of beeing offside when the initial pass is made) but I think that the goal against Latvia is offside as he is standing in the path of the ball and thus is interfering with play according to the new guidelines.

That is why UEFA is having its linesmen use the "wait and see" approach in order to make sure offside is only called when the ball is passed to the player in the offside position. If a player not in an offside position recieves it, it's not supposed to be called.
That's not how I know it. I always thought it's passive when he does not have an impact on the play. But he can have an impact without getting the ball.

And someone please sell Makaay a new passport...he's only good if he's standing in front of the net and someone feeds him the perfect ball. I can understand Pierre coming in for his dead ball play...but Makaay...over Kluivert just stupifies me.

Why? Makaay scored a pretty nice goal in just like 15/20 minutes of playtime.. With Kluivert coming off a relatively awful season and with Makaay being extremely succesfull for Bayern, it was an easy choice to make I'd say.. Makaay's play pretty much means Kluivert won't see any minute in the entire tournament. Too bad, cause, when all 3 would play up to their potential, Kluivert is far away our best striker.

That's not how I know it. I always thought it's passive when he does not have an impact on the play. But he can have an impact without getting the ball.

Exactly, passes in the direction of a player that is in off side position, even if he doesn't get the ball are off side because that player has an impact on the play.

There's no discussion possible.


And the goal against the Czechs shows that the rule should be adapted, I think it was a legal goal, but that should change, this way players can take advantage in an unfair way.
For instance, the striker just stands in the 18 yard box while the ball is in his own half, the ball is given to a pacey winger who is on side and who runs down the field to create a 2 on 0 on the goalie.

Exactly, passes in the direction of a player that is in off side position, even if he doesn't get the ball are off side because that player has an impact on the play.

There's no discussion possible.


And the goal against the Czechs shows that the rule should be adapted, I think it was a legal goal, but that should change, this way players can take advantage in an unfair way.
For instance, the striker just stands in the 18 yard box while the ball is in his own half, the ball is given to a pacey winger who is on side and who runs down the field to create a 2 on 0 on the goalie.
Exactly! that is no different a scenario in which Ruud score against the Czechs so he should be offside. If you are in an offside position the goal should only count if you do not get a touch AND do not distract the keeper. I believe Tomasson's goal against Bulgaria was an example of this. Gronkjaer was in an offside position but well away from the play.

The Dutch played a very good game, I'm satisfied. No idea why the ref gave a penalty but they would have won anyway. There's simply nothing to win against Latvia. If you win with 3-0 then it's 'normal' and anything less is a disgrace. I haven't counted how many chances The Netherlands have created but it was lot, that's a good sign when you consider they were playing with 21 players on one half. Apart from DutchLeafsfan nobody is noticing that Frank de Boer passes were outstanding. He's perhaps over the hill but damnit..those long passes, incredible. Thank God the Germans blew it.

10 bucks says that Overmars starts instead of Andy on Saturday...

I am with you on this one...

One thing I REALLY don't understand though is why the HELL that van der Vaart isn't playing more. He should have atleast been brought in for Cocu in the latter stages of the game.

Well, simply said Rafael is a player who should play at the '10' position, especially when using wingers. However, Clarence Seedorf is currently deserving the starting position at this position due to two solid games which were significantly better than Rafael vs Germany. Cocu for Van der Vaart would mean substituting a controlling midfielder for an attacking one. Since Oranje was creating enough chances anyways and had a two goal lead which would see them through to the quarters, Dick Advocaat understandably did not want to take any risks.

And someone please sell Makaay a new passport...he's only good if he's standing in front of the net and someone feeds him the perfect ball. I can understand Pierre coming in for his dead ball play...but Makaay...over Kluivert just stupifies me.

Makaay did excellent in the 20 minutes of playing time he got, created lots of danger, had a dangerous free kick and finished perfectly on his goal. While he and Ruud had pretty good seasons for their clubs, Patrick Kluivert was more unfortunate and hasn't been able to show that he is at his best right now, so is logically left out. Pierre is the idea pinchhitter and would be excellent to force something as he is able to hold balls very well. This was not necesarry in the possesion game Holland played yesterday though; moreover I think Advocaat wanted to give Makaay some playing time so that we have another finishing striker with confidence should something unfortunate happen to Ruud.

My line-up for Saturday would be:

G: Van der Sar - Excellent tournament so far except for the free kick vs the Germans. No questions...

Defense:
LD: Van Bronckhorst - Did decent against the Latvians, not much alternatives either.
CD: Jaap Stam - No questions needed.
CD: Frank de Boer - Had an excellent game vs the Latvians. Generally solid defensively, and his long passing really adds something to the Dutch game.
RD: Reiziger - Played an excellent game, no reasons to substitute him.

Midfield:

M: Davids - No elaboration needed.
M: Cocu - Not having his best tournament, but I think putting Wesley Sneijder in his place combined with wingers would make the Dutch line-up a bit too offensive minded. Still, he would be an excellent alternative.
M: Seedorf - PLayed two very solid games at the '10' position and deserves to start.

Attack:
LW: Arjen Robben. Showed again yesterday why he is clearly the best Dutch winger. Speedy, skillfull, can score as well as deliver an excellent feed.
ST: Van Nistelrooy - 4 goals in 3 games, is having a good tournament so far.
RW: Overmars - Much better than Andy vd Meyde. Used what is left of his speed to continuously surprise the Latvian defenders. Andy kept trying to fake them until he lsot the ball. May not be able to play 90 minutes, but I rather have my best wingers on first.

RW: Overmars - Much better than Andy vd Meyde. Used what is left of his speed to continuously surprise the Latvian defenders. Andy kept trying to fake them until he lsot the ball. May not be able to play 90 minutes, but I rather have my best wingers on first.
Actually, you could make a case for bringing your speedy winger when the opponent is already a bit worn down.

Actually, you could make a case for bringing your speedy winger when the opponent is already a bit worn down.

True, but conversely one can also make a case for trying to break the opponents' back relatively early and then defend a lead. And since Andy has been pretty much a non-factor so far...

My line-up for Saturday would be:

G: Van der Sar - Excellent tournament so far except for the free kick vs the Germans. No questions...

Defense:
LD: Van Bronckhorst - Did decent against the Latvians, not much alternatives either.
CD: Jaap Stam - No questions needed.
CD: Frank de Boer - Had an excellent game vs the Latvians. Generally solid defensively, and his long passing really adds something to the Dutch game.
RD: Reiziger - Played an excellent game, no reasons to substitute him.

Midfield:

M: Davids - No elaboration needed.
M: Cocu - Not having his best tournament, but I think putting Wesley Sneijder in his place combined with wingers would make the Dutch line-up a bit too offensive minded. Still, he would be an excellent alternative.
M: Seedorf - PLayed two very solid games at the '10' position and deserves to start.

Attack:
LW: Arjen Robben. Showed again yesterday why he is clearly the best Dutch winger. Speedy, skillfull, can score as well as deliver an excellent feed.
ST: Van Nistelrooy - 4 goals in 3 games, is having a good tournament so far.
RW: Overmars - Much better than Andy vd Meyde. Used what is left of his speed to continuously surprise the Latvian defenders. Andy kept trying to fake them until he lsot the ball. May not be able to play 90 minutes, but I rather have my best wingers on first.

I disagree with only a few..

I will do everything to get van Bronckhorst out of the line-up. I know he played a good game last night, but come on, Latvia? He never had a direct opponent and could pretty much float all game.. If we had to appoint and blame a player for our loss against the Czech's, it was Giovannie. He was also attrocious against the Germans, I am not willing to take that risk for a 3rd time. You say we have no other alternatives, but we most definitely have.. Both Philip Cocu and Boudewijn Zenden can play LB, the latter not that much of an upgrade, but it's still an upgrade IMO. Playing Cocu at LB would also mean creating room for either Sneijder or van der Vaart, getting the most out of your team's talent.. Wouldn't mind playing both Ruud or Makaay either..

My line-up.. Edwin van der Sar is ofcourse a lock..

Defense:

LB - Philip Cocu
CB - Jaap Stam
CB - Frank de Boer
RB - Michael Reiziger (Could live with Johnna Heitinga as well)

Midfield:

LM - Edgar Davids
CM - Wesley Sneijder/Rafael van der Vaart
RM - Clarence Seedorf

Attack:

LW - Arjen Robben
ST - Ruud van Nistelrooy
RW - Marc Overmars/Andy van der Meyde (Overmars owns Andy, but he can't play 90 minutes)

Agree with BF here.
I don't want to hear dutch fans complaining about the ref anymore :)
The first goal is a gimme penalty.
The second goal is offside. Yes, they showed it, when the guy hit the freekick, Ruud was offside (not on the Cocu header obviously).
And of course the czech pushed some germans around in the penalty box, and there also was a hand not whistled that should have been a penalty against CR.
That said, there's no doubt Holland deserves to go through rather than Germany.
So all in all, well done Holland and we should see a great game against Sweden.
I'm not so sure about the supposed penalties for Germany, but for everything else here, i completely agree!

That's not how I know it. I always thought it's passive when he does not have an impact on the play. But he can have an impact without getting the ball.


Exactly, passes in the direction of a player that is in off side position, even if he doesn't get the ball are off side because that player has an impact on the play.
There's no discussion possible.

Exactly! that is no different a scenario in which Ruud score against the Czechs so he should be offside.
You are just right guys.
Besides, against the Czechs Ruud faked to not take part in the action when the pass was directed towards Robben just to turn back towards the goal with still 10metres of advantage to the closer defender after Robben received the ball,what a joke.
If we want to go on with this passive-off-side rule , the way those kind of situations should be called is this:
Ruud could re-enter the play only after/if going back BEHIND the defensive line. :teach:

I'm not so sure about the supposed penalties for Germany, but for everything else here, i completely agree!


There was one pretty clear handball by Rozehnal, he half missed his control and the ball clearly hit his arm wich wasn't very close tohis body

And the second one was even more blatant, a high ball in the box rocochet's up high and the goalie clearly pushes Schneider aside and to the ground and then continues coming out to cath the ball. It was a very funny sight, while the ball was in the air the goalie went out of his way to push over Schneider and than just went out further to collect the ball :joker:

There was one pretty clear handball by Rozehnal, he half missed his control and the ball clearly hit his arm wich wasn't very close tohis body

And the second one was even more blatant, a high ball in the box rocochet's up high and the goalie clearly pushes Schneider aside and to the ground and then continues coming out to cath the ball. It was a very funny sight, while the ball was in the air the goalie went out of his way to push over Schneider and than just went out further to collect the ball :joker:
Yep, as close to wrestling as you'll ever see on a football pitch.

There was one pretty clear handball by Rozehnal, he half missed his control and the ball clearly hit his arm wich wasn't very close tohis body
:
Well, i have seen only one replay but for what i remember the ball hit his arm just after a deflection off his thigh/knee, not so sure it was intentional..and didn't remember his arm to be that far from his body either..could be wrong anyway.


And the second one was even more blatant, a high ball in the box rocochet's up high and the goalie clearly pushes Schneider aside and to the ground and then continues coming out to cath the ball. It was a very funny sight, while the ball was in the air the goalie went out of his way to push over Schneider and than just went out further to collect the ball :joker:
Yeah, what a crazy foul, but you know, i would have gone crazy seeing the Germans advance thanks to this idiocy! :naughty:

There was one pretty clear handball by Rozehnal, he half missed his control and the ball clearly hit his arm wich wasn't very close tohis body


Yes...but it still wasn`t a penalty. Unintentional...

And the second one was even more blatant, a high ball in the box rocochet's up high and the goalie clearly pushes Schneider aside and to the ground and then continues coming out to cath the ball. It was a very funny sight, while the ball was in the air the goalie went out of his way to push over Schneider and than just went out further to collect the ball :joker:

More blatant? In Norway we refer to that as a dive. Watch the reply and you`ll see what I mean. Terrible by Schneider!

No...my buddy Terje did a wonderful job.

Yes...but it still wasn`t a penalty. Unintentional...



More blatant? In Norway we refer to that as a dive. Watch the reply and you`ll see what I mean. Terrible by Schneider!

No...my buddy Terje did a wonderful job.

He may have gone down easily, but come one, the keeper clearly pushed him with two hands. Gotta admit that.
And in fact I totally don't agree that it was a dive by Schneider, if you look closely at his footwork you can see he lost his balance because of the push and than fell over, if it was a dive he would've gone down without taking those little steps to regain his balance. He didn't fell because it was such a hard puch, but because it was totally unexpected for him.


And the first one, it may have been unintentional, but it was a result of his own stupidity/inability to control the ball so it could have been one

And it denied Germany an opportunity to score (the handball).

As for Schneider diving, I disagree. The goalie went to him even though the ball didn't come that way and simply pushed the player with his two hands.
Probably too stupid for the ref to think it was a real foul. He saw it and probably thought it was a dive, but it was not one.