EC Day #11: Italy v Bulgaria / Denmark v Sweden (GDT)

muhahaha.. BF will not be happy, but I figured today's matches deserved their own thread :)


Group C standings:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/results/3734019.stm

Italy vs. Bulgaria

GROUP C
Venue: Dom Afonso Henriques, Guimarães
Date/time: Tue, 22 June, 2045 CET
Referee: Valentin Ivanov (Russia)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3787525.stm


Denmark vs. Sweden

GROUP C
Venue: Bessa stadium, Porto
Date/time: Tue, 22 June, 2045 CET
Referee: Markus Merk (Germany)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3787527.stm


EDIT: Mods.. feel free to correct the Article title (adding an a to Bulgari) :D

57 points for me..

Italy 2 - 0 Bulgaria (Del Piero)

Denmark 1 - 2 Sweden (Ljundberg)

I was just gonna post a GDT, thanks for taking over my task, I was busy today.

Predictions:



Portugal v Greece: 2-0 (Figo)
Spain v Russia: 2-1 (Raul Gonzalez Blanco)
Switzerland v Croatia: 2-1 (Frei)
France v England: 1-1 (Owen)
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Czech Republic v Latvia: 3-0 (Baros)
Germany v Holland: 1-2 (Ruud)
Greece v Spain: 0-2 (F Torres)
Russia v Portugal: 1-3 (Pauleta)
England v Switzerland 2-0 (Gerrard)
Croatia v France 1-3 (Trézéguet)
Bulgaria v Denmark 0-1 (Sand)
Italy v Sweden 1-1 (Ibrahimovic)
Latvia - Germany 0-2 (Ballack)
Holland - Czech Rep 1-2 (Nedved)
Russia v Greece: 1-0 (Izmailov)
Spain v Portugal: 2-1 (F Torres)
England v Croatia: 2-1 (Owen)
Switzerland v France: 0-2 (Henry)


9 points yesterday, up to 51 now.

Today:

Italy vs Bulgaria: 2-1 (Cassano)
Denmark - Sweden: 2-2 (Larsson) (Couldn't resist :D)


And I'll sticky the thread and remove the typo in the title Predatore, thanks again!

57 points so far.

Day 11
Italy 2 : 1 Bulgaria (A. Del Piero)
Denmark 1 : 2 Sweden (H. Larsson)

34 points for me.

Italy-Bulgaria: 3-1 (Cassano)
Sweden-Denmark: 1-2 (tomasson)

I am ready for an Italy-Czech Republic next sunday night.

6 points yesterday (Henry goal+ France win), giving me a grand total of 45...

Today:

Italy-Bulgaria 2-0 (Cassano)
Sweden-Denmark 2-2 (Larsson)

one thing I don't get, the first rule is points, so assuming the Danes and Swedes tie 2-2, why is Italy eliminated if they can still win on goal differential?? Denmark and Sweden would both go to 5 points, and assuming italy wins 3 or 4-0 they would have a higher goal differential than Denmark, so why would they be out? Anyone understand this?

one thing I don't get, the first rule is points, so assuming the Danes and Swedes tie 2-2, why is Italy eliminated if they can still win on goal differential?? Denmark and Sweden would both go to 5 points, and assuming italy wins 3 or 4-0 they would have a higher goal differential than Denmark, so why would they be out? Anyone understand this?

They're just explaining it on the Dutch TV, but I guess you can't receive that, lol

Anyway, in the case of a tie the results between the tied teams are taken into account (the result against Bulgaria is not taken into account). Since those are equal as well, the goal differential of the games between the tied teams count. And since those are equal as well, the goals scored in the games between the tied teams count. And if Sweden and Denmark each score two goals, the Italians will automatically lose that tie breaker, even if they beat Bulgaria 10-0...

one thing I don't get, the first rule is points, so assuming the Danes and Swedes tie 2-2, why is Italy eliminated if they can still win on goal differential?? Denmark and Sweden would both go to 5 points, and assuming italy wins 3 or 4-0 they would have a higher goal differential than Denmark, so why would they be out? Anyone understand this?

Well, points is obviously a first criterion, but the next following one is the results from the games played between the tied teams themselves. Since a Sweden-Denmark draw and Italy win would result in a three way tie with 5 points, the mentioned results would basically be the group results with the games versus Bulgaria removed. This would mean:

Denmark-Italy 0-0
Sweden-Italy 1-1
Sweden-Denmark 2-2

Final standings over the games between the three:

Sweden 2-2 (3-3)
Denmark 2-2 (2-2)
Italy 2-2 (1-1)

As the tie breaker in this case is first points, then goal differential and then goals scored, this would see the Italians eliminated due to scoring the least amount of goals in the mutual games between the three tied teams.

DAY 1: 3 points
DAY 2: 6 points
DAY 3: 3 points
DAY 4: 6 points
DAY 5: 6 points
DAY 6: 6 points
DAY 7: 6 points
DAY 8: 3 points
DAY 9: 3 points
DAY 10: 12 points
------------------------
TOTAL 54 points

Italy 2 - 1 Bulgaria (Vieri)

Denmark 2 - 2 Sweden (Zlatan)

Italy 1 - 0 Bulgaria (Casano)

Denmark 2 - 2 Sweden (Larsson)

Thanks boyz, i now understand but find this rule to be very stupid.

Wow, that penalty was a surprise especially this late in the half. Gonna he a hard 2nd half for the Italians....

Italy is now in DEEP trouble, needing at LEAST 2 goals (3 if Sweden scores) in the second half to advance.

I also think it was a good penalty call, the Italian defenders need to stop putting their arms around the opposition attackers (which they have done ALOT). Eventually, this is going to get called, and it did today for the Italians.

You are the italian coach: Cannavaro is suspended so who do you pick in defense: The best young defender of last season in Italy (Ferrari, Parma's captain) or a guy who hasn't played for three months because he punched another player at the end of a game?
Bingo: you are the Trap and you pick the later, Marco 'scissorsfeet' Materrazzi.
Conclusion: the stupidiest penalty you can imagine.
:clap:

What are the Italians doing. Such another heartless display, some players somehow take this tournament as vacation.

There is so much talent in this team. The best backline with goalie and enough good players going forward. They were my tournament favorite, but this is just a disgrace.

Moan the whole week about the other teams that they play the game fairly but again not doing their own job. :lol


How can Del Piero miss that sitter. I thought Kloses miss war terrible but that one even beats that one. :joker:

we have ourselves a game, looks like Italy aint goin down without a fight!

Holy Crap they scored 4 minutes into extra time! Not enough though.

How come I'm not surprised the result turned out to be 2-2!

Even if this was a fixed result, the Italians have only themselves to blame. And besides, a country that is one of the biggest advocates of doing everything to win (including diving) should not complain about two teams agreeing to make sure they both go through.


*edit* by the way, that's a perfect score today for me 18 points :banana:

oh, boy.. what a game.
For those that actually saw the game.. I don't think anyone will actually think the game was fixed. Puuuh...

Bullcrap, out of all the possible scores they finish 2-2, the only score that will knock Italy out.....Denmark had the chance to go up 3-1 but muffed it, i wonder if it was on purpose. Just sucks the way Italy won and coincidentally Sweden scores with 1 minute left in the game? Just too coincidental, but what can you do. Italy should have beat Sweden last game.

After watching Sweden vs Denmark I can't say it looked like a fixed game at all, there were several scoring chances throughout the game, so it'll be interesting to see if the Italians will still claim that this was all fixed and set up.

But they have nobody to blame but themselves anyway, they've played crappy throughout the whole tournament and they can't blame that on any conspiracies anyway!

But a great day for scandinavian fans anyway! :D

You have absolutely nobody to blame but your own national team.



If you didn't have a leader who went around spitting in people's faces, or a lazy group of underachievers or a coach with down syndrome, you may have gone through.


I applaud Denmark and Sweden if they really meant to tie the game 2-2. Why wouldn't they want to ensure that they both get in and eliminate the biggest threat(Italy)?

Ciao Azzurri.
Your answers:


Did you see me putting the blame on anyone else?

Our leader is Cannavaro, not Totti, and plenty of players have done the exact same thing over the years, he just got caught. I'm not saying it's right, but it's not the first time it's happened. And Trappatoni shouldn't have been the coach in the first place, but saying he has down syndrome is utterly stupid. You obviously are a moron.

Why? because it's cheap, and unfair and shouldn't be allowed!

Let the conspiratory blame start, But dont forget Italy got a freaking 5!!!!!!! min stopage time almost unheard of. I was saying in a swedish Chatroom i am at around 85 min or so of the game. i am sure Italy will get some crazy amount of stoppage time if game is still tied at 90 min. and they did


But for now we celebrate 2-2 what a perfect score !!!!!!!!

Even had the Denmark-Sweden game remained 1-1 (as it was past the 70th minute mark), Italy is out with that result. You BARELY scraped by Bulgaria for christ sake, so I hardly think this is a shocking turn of events.

BTW, the 5 minutes of stoppage time in the Italy game was DESERVED. Their were ALOT of injury stoppages in the second half, so don't go blaming the official for that one.

You have absolutely nobody to blame but your own national team.

If you didn't have a leader who went around spitting in people's faces, or a lazy group of underachievers or a coach with down syndrome, you may have gone through.

I applaud Denmark and Sweden if they really meant to tie the game 2-2. Why wouldn't they want to ensure that they both get in and eliminate the biggest threat(Italy)?

Ciao Azzurri.


I'm sure a mod is going to look into that comment...so I'm not going to get into it.

It is true that the Italians underachieved in this tournament, they had multiple chances to beat Sweden and Denmark and not have to wait for a result in the SWE-DEN game.

The causes for their defeat? I have a few:

-Lack of scoring. Obvious, considering it is Italy. But they made a big mistake in not taking Inzaghi and Gilardino in the team, and instead chose bench-warmers Di Vaio and Corradi.

-Underperforming stars: Let me see, Totti, Del Piero and Vieri were all major crap. I mean major major crap. Del Piero should be shot.

-Trappotoni. Can't coach International Football. Good domestic coach though.

Why? because it's cheap, and unfair and shouldn't be allowed!

Totally disagree.

The idea of football is winning prizes. By fixing (if it was fixed, good luck proving that, the danes really tried to score the third) the game they both made sure they got through AND that a very strong opponent got out of the tournament.

Italia just got a bit of their own medicine. And they shouldn't have been in this situation in the first place.

HAHAHHAHA

I loved seeing the Italian players celebrating with so much joy only to see them come crashing down when they saw the score from the other game!

Gotta feel for the Italian fans though, having to put up with such lackluster efforts.

300S

Why? because it's cheap, and unfair and shouldn't be allowed!


I can hear Vieri starting his :cry: :cry: already.

a team that can only beat Bulgaria with 5!!!!!!!!!!!! min of stoppage time dont deserve to advance so outcome is fair and square.

I'm sure a mod is going to look into that comment...so I'm not going to get into it.

Del Piero should be shot.


is it worse to write that a coach has down syndrome than to actually call out a murder on a player?

I can hear Vieri starting his :cry: :cry: already.

a team that can only beat Bulgaria with 5!!!!!!!!!!!! min of stoppage time dont deserve to advance so outcome is fair and square.


Did you even watch the game? Bulgarian players were flopping left and right in the last few minutes. I counted at lest 3 players that were down for at least a minute each!

I can hear Vieri starting his :cry: :cry: already.

a team that can only beat Bulgaria with 5!!!!!!!!!!!! min of stoppage time dont deserve to advance so outcome is fair and square.
Your such an idiot, have you forgotten Bulgaria made the semi finals a little while ago? And just to make the Euro Cup is hard in itself. ask Romania and Belgium. Obviously Bulgaria didn't want to go home with an 0-3 record so they stepped it up a bit. The thought of finishing 3rd instead of 4th would have gave them something positive to think about. Italy didn't play bad, they didn't even lose and they let in 2 goals in 3 games, they needed to score a couple more goals. And the 5 misn were deserved, there were plenty of stoppages. Sweden will end up losing anyway next round, so be happy while you still can be.

is it worse to write that a coach has down syndrome than to actually call out a murder on a player?

Not murder...just shot in the leg. ;)

Hilarous stuff!

As good as the Eurovision song contest!
Of course it was not fixed. Of course the only guy who had accuracy in front of the net was the Milan's forward. Of course Sorensen doesn't give up a silly penalty then on the same penalty dives so hard on his left that he is almost outside of the goal. Of course three minutes before the end, his wet gloves can't catch a cross. Of course he will sleep well on his Ikea bed tonight.
Of course I am having a gigantic laugh right now.

To come back a bit more serious:
Italy is out. But ONLY because Trappatoni blew it. Nothing to do with Denmark and Sweden.
Congratulations to Sweden and Denmark who are good teams, they will cause problems to any opponent they will face in the quarters.

Totally disagree.

The idea of football is winning prizes. By fixing (if it was fixed, good luck proving that, the danes really tried to score the third) the game they both made sure they got through AND that a very strong opponent got out of the tournament.

Italia just got a bit of their own medicine. And they shouldn't have been in this situation in the first place.
Exactly, winning prizes, not conspiring. We won't try to prove it, we'll take it and swallow it. The theory behind fixing is very stupid, the italians played their butts off to win this game, yet they exit because two teams decide to cheat. You call that fair sport? (this of course assuming it was in fact fixed)

63+9 = 72.

I'm a dane. I'm qualified with a tie or win.
I have to face Czech Republic if I tie.
What do I do?
I DON'T FIX. I don't give up a goal in extra time because I don't care about Italy, but I do care about my quarters against Germany/Latvia/Holland rather than Czech Republic so I DON'T DEAL WITH SWEDEN AND I CERTAINLY DON'T GIVE UP AN EASY GOAL to eliminate a contestant I won't meet before the final.

Exactly, winning prizes, not conspiring. We won't try to prove it, we'll take it and swallow it. The theory behind fixing is very stupid, the italians played their butts off to win this game, yet they exit because two teams decide to cheat. You call that fair sport? (this of course assuming it was in fact fixed)
Watch the game first before you make any accusations!
Though it was friendly in that aspect that they didn´t spit on each other...

Watch the game first before you make any accusations!
Though it was friendly in that aspect that they didn´t spit on each other...
Did you not read the part that stated "if it was in fact fixed" ??????
It's just too coincidental is all I'm saying.

Did you not read the part that stated "if it was in fact fixed" ??????
It's just too coincidental is all I'm saying.

Exactly. I don't believe in conspiracies but this smells fishy all around. 2-2 ( and 3-3 and 4-4) would have done the Italians in and thats what they got?

It won't just be me but a whole lot of people are going to ape merde over this.

[QUOTE=ParisSaintGermain]

Italy is out. But ONLY because Trappatoni blew it. Nothing to do with Denmark and Sweden.

:handclap:

so true ....
that's the thing about italians, they could have won the game against Sweden, but Trapattoni had to sub his forwards for defenders and midfielders, just to keep the score at 1-0 ...every italian citizen know that this is what Italy is famous for - playing great football, but the letting go of the win late in the game.

What are the odds of Trapattoni resigning tomorrow ... :D

Exactly, winning prizes, not conspiring. We won't try to prove it, we'll take it and swallow it. The theory behind fixing is very stupid, the italians played their butts off to win this game, yet they exit because two teams decide to cheat. You call that fair sport? (this of course assuming it was in fact fixed)


Evidence please

It's tough for the Italians, but I don't think it was fixed. At least the ref does not get so much attention now (because he was bad, mostly towards Italy). But yes, they have themselves to blame.

And btw: The best left back of the tournament will go home tomorrow.

Watch the game first before you make any accusations!
Though it was friendly in that aspect that they didn´t spit on each other...


Guess we dont have the passion for Football like Italians do :D

If anything that game was FAR FAR FAR from a fixed game. If you want to know how a fixed game looks and feels like. Ask some older person about the Game between Germany and Austria that finished 1-0. That game was how fixed games looks and feels like

Evidence please
Learn how to read, Jesus, it's like i'm dealing with a child here.
I clearly stated we won't look for evidence, we will swallow it and go home.
Get ready for your team getting romped against either Holland or Germany.

Totti spat to a danish player, the danishs may have answered to Totti tonight. :eek:

Totti spat to a danish player, the danishs may have answered to Totti tonight. :eek:
Yeah, but i would have been happier if he just spit back :D

Learn how to read, Jesus, it's like i'm dealing with a child here.
I clearly stated we won't look for evidence, we will swallow it and go home.
Get ready for your team getting romped against either Holland or Germany.


Quote:

yet they exit because two teams decide to cheat

end quote

Where is the evidence for this claim.

catenaccio :banghead:

My money is on Lippi.

My money is on Lippi.

Ditto...

IMO there is no way this was a fixed game btw. It was a spirited and interesting game, with the Danes clearly going for their third goal during the second half. The only moment when both teams settled down and ceased to compete was during injury time, when both teams had no need to take any risks as this result would see both of them quality for the Quarter Finals. This had nothing to do with the fix though, but was a completely logical result of the situation. I do expect part of the Italian media to whine about it though, given their history and the buildup to the game...

15 points for me btw, bumping up my total to 60 :handclap:

I love the Italian team but I’m happy this happened tonight. Why? Cause things are completely screwed up over there. How can you justify leaving the best Italian striker out of the team yet a complete, useless, sack of crap like Del Piero continuously makes it even though he has proven *****all at this level?

Until Italy selects its best players to go these tournaments, and not the big name losers (Del Piero) who play for the big clubs like Juve and have fat sponsorships deals with Adidas, stuff like this will continue to happen.

Apparently the president of the Italian FA has already said that supposedly everything points towards a fix. Interesting typically Italian days these are going to be...

Some credits for Jon-Dahl Tomasson would be nice as well. Everybody went hysterical with Rooney, quite rightly, but meanwhile Jon-Dahl also finds the back of the net.

Some credits for Jon-Dahl Tomasson would be nice as well. Everybody went hysterical with Rooney, quite rightly, but meanwhile Jon-Dahl also finds the back of the net.

I think he learned his stuff in Feyenoord.....

I think he learned his stuff in Feyenoord.

Yes, my thoughts exactly rangers. Great team.


Another thing I want to add.

That rightback of Sweden have to be the worst defender I have ever seen. It was like...."C'mon Gronkjear, go ahead. I won't bother you."

Another thing I want to add.

That rightback of Sweden have to be the worst defender I have ever seen. It was like...."C'mon Gronkjear, go ahead. I won't bother you."

you should have seen zambrotta against him .... :shakehead

Mikael Nilsson (RB) is really having a nightmare tournament - the problem is just that he ususally is a midfielder in his Swedish club, but earlier this season they had some injury problems and he was made right back - he did very well on that position (while playing in sweden against swedish teams)
However.....playing against teams like AIK and Örebro doesn't make you a great defender.....and he has no excperience what so ever of playing against european clubs..


And of course, he faced some tough players - Grönkjaer today and Zambrotta last match...but the problem is that he never even tries to make a tackle - it's like he waits for his chance, but these guys are so quick that he'll never get the chance to get the ball from him

i think he made one tackle today - but that one got deflected and became a corner

oh, boy.. what a game.
For those that actually saw the game.. I don't think anyone will actually think the game was fixed. Puuuh...

It didn't look fixed to me. But to those that believe such things: You judge others by knowing yourself. This is especially true with the Italian media that is so full of conspiratory mafia crap that they actually think that the rest of the world behaves like they do. It is not so. Even if the game should be fixed, which is highly unlikely, screw the italians and their conspiracy theories. They had their fate in their own hands when they played both Team Denmark and Team Sweden. They didn't play good enough and that is why they got knocked out.

I really see nothing wrong in Group C. The 3 top teams drew each other. One of those teams destroyed Bulgaria. Another dispatched them unspectacularly without much trouble; the last one barely sqeaked out a win in the 5th minute of injury time.

I'd say the group ranking came out just about right.

Actually, any draw 2-2 or more would have knocked Italy out....and with the amount of scoring chances there were in the SWE-DEN match, a 3-3 draw could have just as easily taken place.

No fix at all.




Looking out for your own team is not cheap and unfair.

Once Denmark took the lead, they knew Sweden needed 2 goals to eliminate them, so why would Denmark attack? Once Sweden equalized, both teams knew they were into the quarter finals, so why would either team take a risk?

It is not Denmark and/or Sweden's responsibility to help Italy get to the next stage by sacrificing themselves.




Bulgaria made the World Cup semi-finals in 1994...and that was a cinderella team...much like Croatia was in 1998, South Korea was in 2002 and Greece is at EURO 2004.

Not only that, but none of the players from that 1994 Bulgaria team remain today.




It was a fix in 2000 with the 4 minutes of stoppage time, it was a fix in 2002 to get the hosts to the next round...so far in 2004, it's been the shoes, the socks, now another fix by Denmark and Sweden...what's next? The rain? The Sun? The alignment of the stars?

I dont know but the fact that they have played like total crap and barely just barely got a win over probably the worst team at Euro2004 this time in Bulgaria is just showing how freaken bad italy have played. they got what they deserved in being sent packing together with spain as the chokers so far

It didn't look fixed to me. But to those that believe such things: You judge others by knowing yourself. This is especially true with the Italian media that is so full of conspiratory mafia crap that they actually think that the rest of the world behaves like they do. It is not so. Even if the game should be fixed, which is highly unlikely, screw the italians and their conspiracy theories. They had their fate in their own hands when they played both Team Denmark and Team Sweden. They didn't play good enough and that is why they got knocked out.
Best post on this topic.

Looking out for your own team is not cheap and unfair.

Once Denmark took the lead, they knew Sweden needed 2 goals to eliminate them, so why would Denmark attack? Once Sweden equalized, both teams knew they were into the quarter finals, so why would either team take a risk?

It is not Denmark and/or Sweden's responsibility to help Italy get to the next stage by sacrificing themselves.


:handclap: Could not have said it better myself. The Italian football world thinks that the world revolves around them. Are they forgetting the fact that had either Denmark or Sweden lost then they would have been eliminated.

The Italians played like crap the whole tourny and don't deserve to advance anyway. They looked so undesired in all their matches. Their problems are not primarily on the pitch but rather in their ranks.

Oh how i laughed when sorenson dropped the cross and jonson scored! The swedes vs danes was a great game, thought the Danes look a very good side and I wouldnt fancy playing them even though they do play the czech republic I think they will beat them.

Italy deserve nothing got nothing, and who ever said the italians did everything in there power to win that game clearly did not watch the 1st half cause Italy were totally cr*p in the 1st half. Matterazi can have no complaints about the pen he was all over him. Shame Cassano is going as he looks a real talent! Still cant believe how badly del piero and vieri played they never looked like scoring. Zambrotta what a player he looks not seen that much of him, he busted a gut out there in that game. Buffon,Cassano and Zambrotta can go home proud of the way they played, shame about all the other stars they were a complete let down.

By the way helicopter, Helveg cant be that bad a defender his team conceded two goals. 1 a harsh penalty if you watch on the replay and then a gift from the goalie. He has progressed further than your Italian muppets! :joker: :lol

The Italians are pathetic! The accuse Sweden and Denmark for a fix and claims that it isn't fair play, bla bla...

Have Italy forgot the game against Mexico two years ago? That was a fix my friends! That game made me want to puke. The game last night did not, because it was no fix!! :teach:

Spain and Italy are out.. Dutch are next..

It is time to notice Italian football is in serious problems lately, look what they have done in 2002 and what they just did in Portugal

Only teams they have won over are Equador and Bulgaria. Neither of those exactly concidered to be powerhouses.

The sooner Italy acknowledges that there national team is having problems internationally they will find the cure for it.

If you look at the squad the Italians have (and those they've left at home) the problem is not the talent level, but the way they play.

Italy played as a counter attacking team in this EC.

They sat back and didn't let the 3 forwards put pressure on the opposing team, wich means they almost never forced turnovers on the half of the opponent.
There was a huge gap between the 3 forwards and the rest of the team, because of this: the midfield just went too deep defending because Trap didn't order pressure.
That meant that the Italians usually won the ball in the last 20-25 metres of the pitch, with 20 m between the ball and the three forwards, that resulted in a long ball and a counter by the Italians. That's not a bad idea in se, but with talent like Cassano, Totti et all, they should've opted for a posession game, putting pressure on the opponents and trying to break them down using their creativity and technique, rather than their poor attempts at counter attacks.

It was a fix in 2000 with the 4 minutes of stoppage time
Obviously not. Who ever said it was?


it was a fix in 2002 to get the hosts to the next round.
Obviously yes.


..so far in 2004, it's been the shoes, the socks..
What's funny is that even if it was true, this would be like stating to be a moron for a player who is training for weeks towards that first game without being able to realize which shoes and socks were worthy to use! :lol:
So this is obvious crap, agree with you here.

Have Italy forgot the game against Mexico two years ago? That was a fix my friends! That game made me want to puke.

:joker:


oh yes, now i realize, you are the one who yesterday said Stam is an horrible defender...

anyway, for your knowledge, this was the classification before that game:
Messico 6
Croazia 3
Italia 3
Ecuador 0

on the last day Italy-Messico and Croatia-Ecuador were played.(at the same time,of course)
As you should see a draw against Messico would have very probably meant elimination for Italy since Croatia was facing an hopeless Ecuador team in his last game.. Italy was lucky there, going thorugh despite the draw.
Basically you are saying Italy fixed a draw that would have probably been lethal :joker:
An EVENTUALLY fixed 2-2 draw between Denmark and Sweden meant sure qualification for both teams....see the difference??

My money is on Lippi.
Hey, you can't bet on an already played game..
They won't pay you!

I love the Italian team but I’m happy this happened tonight. Why? Cause things are completely screwed up over there. How can you justify leaving the best Italian striker out of the team yet a complete, useless, sack of crap like Del Piero continuously makes it even though he has proven *****all at this level?

Until Italy selects its best players to go these tournaments, and not the big name losers (Del Piero) who play for the big clubs like Juve and have fat sponsorships deals with Adidas, stuff like this will continue to happen.

:highclap: :handclap: :clap:

I'll be at work today so I post my predictions right now:

Germany 1 - Czech 2 (Baros)
Holland 2 - Latvia 0 (Robben)

As good as the Eurovision song contest!
Of course it was not fixed. Of course the only guy who had accuracy in front of the net was the Milan's forward. Of course Sorensen doesn't give up a silly penalty then on the same penalty dives so hard on his left that he is almost outside of the goal. Of course three minutes before the end, his wet gloves can't catch a cross. Of course he will sleep well on his Ikea bed tonight.
Of course I am having a gigantic laugh right now.

:snide:

But they have nobody to blame but themselves anyway, they've played crappy throughout the whole tournament...
I guess they were playing crappy while completely outplaying Sweden and getting chances to score 10 goals (continously missed by the two dead bodies walking around, Vieri and DelPiero) in an hour against your great team! :joker:

...But dont forget Italy got a freaking 5!!!!!!! min stopage time almost unheard of. I was saying in a swedish Chatroom i am at around 85 min or so of the game. i am sure Italy will get some crazy amount of stoppage time if game is still tied at 90 min. and they did

What a genius here!
'almost unheard of'? How many soccer games have you ever seen before Euro2004?
Oh, and have you seen the game Bulgaria-Italy?
I hope not, otherwise i hope you would have realized 5 minutes were not out of place and the referee badly damaged Italy during the game: the penalty was a joke, Berbatov's dive was in perfect Inzaghi-style; Cassano scored, but he didn't realize it; he missed a blatant penalty on Cassano; there was a suspect penalty on Vieri.
Enough?

I guess they were playing crappy while completely outplaying Sweden and getting chances to score 10 goals (continously missed by the two dead bodies walking around, Vieri and DelPiero) in an hour against your great team! :joker:

I blame Mikael Nilsson for 75%, that guy was doing absolutely nothing. A performance he repeated yesterday.

(off the board's game)
Italy-Bulgaria 2-1
Sweden-Denmark 2-2
:dunno:

Italy vs Bulgaria: 2-1 (Cassano)
Denmark - Sweden: 2-2 (Larsson) (Couldn't resist :D)

damn, did you copy it? ;)


Italy 2 - 1 Bulgaria (Vieri)
Denmark 2 - 2 Sweden (Zlatan)
hey, we made for a tendency!


Italy-Bulgaria 2-0 (Cassano)
Sweden-Denmark 2-2 (Larsson)

Denmark 2 - 2 Sweden (Larsson)
WOW, suddenly we are all able to predict the future!!! :eek:

I got 25% of my points so far yesterday :lol :lol :lol

Slightly disagree on the penalty issue Helicecopter,
even tough I didn't think it was a blatant penalty (like the one the Dutch didn't get vs the Czechs), Materazzi did have his arms wrapped around Berbatov, wich he shouldn't be doing in the first place. Furthermoe there definately was a pulling motion from Materazzi involved. Yes, Berbatov might have fouled Materzzi too and he went down very easily, so it was a very 'light' penalty, it still wasn't as bad as the one the Swedes got, where there was no contact between Sorenson and Larsson on that play.

In Italy there wouldn't have been a foul called but Materazzi should have enough brains (OK, a normal player should have enough brains :)) to keep his hands to himself in the 18 yard box. Also notice how bad the defensive coverag was on the play, there was no support whatsoever for Materazzi because the D was all over the place.

Materazzi did have his arms wrapped around Berbatov, wich he shouldn't be doing in the first place. Furthermoe there definately was a pulling motion from Materazzi involved. Yes, Berbatov might have fouled Materzzi too and he went down very easily
well, basically we agree.
Berbatov was leaning himself on the defender as Inzaghi usually does, waiting for the right moment to dive (he was a bit late imo..).
My thinking is if the defender's push his responsible for the fall you should give penalty, if it's the forward's dive responsible for the fall you shouldn't, even if the defender behaviour is not clean.
Besides, i've played as a defender some years and i know you can't stay completely clean when a decent forwards is leaning on you in the crease..



so it was a very 'light' penalty, it still wasn't as bad as the one the Swedes got, where there was no contact between Sorenson and Larsson on that play.
Is it sure there wasn't any contact? i guessed Sorensen had been able to make a clear penalty :snide: what was he thinking to go out to flat down Larsson while a defender was already there on Larsson??



In Italy there wouldn't have been a foul called but Materazzi should have enough brains (OK, a normal player should have enough brains...
:joker:


Also notice how bad the defensive coverag was on the play, there was no support whatsoever for Materazzi because the D was all over the place.
Somehow disagree here. I mean, if you see the replay you can see Materazzi is the only one behind Berbatov..if he makes two steps ahead it's clear offside..but again, it's Materazzi...

Del Piero should be shot.

finally!!!!!

Not murder...just shot in the leg. ;)
I'm going to collect money with my friends to hire a sharpshooter!! :lol:
.
.
.
wait :( ...
.
.
.
****!:banghead:
.
.
.
'..IT IS TOO LATE NOW BECAUSE
YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION
..you can scream and you can shout
it is too late now
because you'WEre not there
payin' attention
payin' attention
payin' attention
payin' attention
..'

dedicated to the IDIOT(Trap)

thanks to Thom Yorke.
(i'll save my money)

It was a weak penalty call, IF taken by itself. But the Italians were putting their arms around the Bulgarian strikers ALL match, and eventually you just need to stop that, and a penalty is the only way. The same goes for a little shirt pull, do it once, you are OK, do it 10 times in the first half, eventually the referee will call one. Just MHO.

If you look at the squad the Italians have (and those they've left at home) the problem is not the talent level, but the way they play.

Italy played as a counter attacking team in this EC.

They sat back and didn't let the 3 forwards put pressure on the opposing team, wich means they almost never forced turnovers on the half of the opponent.
There was a huge gap between the 3 forwards and the rest of the team, because of this: the midfield just went too deep defending because Trap didn't order pressure.
That meant that the Italians usually won the ball in the last 20-25 metres of the pitch, with 20 m between the ball and the three forwards, that resulted in a long ball and a counter by the Italians. That's not a bad idea in se, but with talent like Cassano, Totti et all, they should've opted for a posession game, putting pressure on the opponents and trying to break them down using their creativity and technique, rather than their poor attempts at counter attacks.

Some very good points here, but I want to argue that they played an attacking style for 2 of the 6 halfs of football at the EC. The first half of the Sweden game, and the last half of the Bulgaria game. ( they were complete crap in the Denmark game)

I agree there was a midfield gap, but by the second game they put in Pirlo, who could get the ball to the 3 forwards. However, by then Totti was gone so there was no one to take it. They also inserted Cassano way too late into the team. Del Piero and Vieri were last seen vacationing in Argentina.

I think one of the real problems was the lack of pace in the forward 3. You could see that Zambrotta's speed down the left flank caused problems in all 3 games. This is where I thought players like Fillipo Inzaghi ( who loves the offside trap ) could have made a difference. Or even Alberto Gilardino.

But then again, woulda, shoulda coulda. Hindsight is 20/20. :banghead:

BTW, a PSG-Real Madrid european game (quarter finals) went to 10 minutes of extra time. Some people were wondering if the watch of the ref was broken or something.
Two goals were scored in these 10 minutes.

My predictions :
Czech Republic 3-0 Latvia (Van Niestelroy)
Germany 1-0 Czech Republic (Kuranyi)

What a genius here!
'almost unheard of'? How many soccer games have you ever seen before Euro2004?
Oh, and have you seen the game Bulgaria-Italy?
I hope not, otherwise i hope you would have realized 5 minutes were not out of place and the referee badly damaged Italy during the game: the penalty was a joke, Berbatov's dive was in perfect Inzaghi-style; Cassano scored, but he didn't realize it; he missed a blatant penalty on Cassano; there was a suspect penalty on Vieri.
Enough?


Yikes than i urge you to supply how often 5!!!!! min of stoppage time happens. Thru my 30+ yrs of watching and also playing soccer I KNOW for a fact that 5 min is extremly rare and something that is almost unheard of. I am NOT saying it wasnt the right decision here what i am saying is IT IS ALMOST unheard of. And my guess was that they where going to be given a long one when i looked on the scores in the 85th minute. Since at that point with Denmark up 2-1 and Italy still only in a tied game vs this championships worst team i figured they would get some insane amount of extra time and thats what happened since they got 5 min extra to play around with.

I am a firm believer of that 5 min extra time in a half is extremely rare and almost unheard of until you supply evidence that shows that 5 min extra of stoppage time is something that happens pretty often. until that it is ALMOST UNHEARD OFF

Will be interesting to see if Collina is given to referee any of the next games featuring Denmark or Sweden in this competition...

Yikes than i urge you to supply how often 5!!!!! min of stoppage time happens. Thru my 30+ yrs of watching and also playing soccer I KNOW for a fact that 5 min is extremly rare and something that is almost unheard of. I am NOT saying it wasnt the right decision here what i am saying is IT IS ALMOST unheard of. And my guess was that they where going to be given a long one when i looked on the scores in the 85th minute. Since at that point with Denmark up 2-1 and Italy still only in a tied game vs this championships worst team i figured they would get some insane amount of extra time and thats what happened since they got 5 min extra to play around with.

I am a firm believer of that 5 min extra time in a half is extremely rare and almost unheard of until you supply evidence that shows that 5 min extra of stoppage time is something that happens pretty often. until that it is ALMOST UNHEARD OFF

You did what the Italians did, whine pointlessly without having seen the play. 5 minutes was the correct amount of injury time (6 minutes wouldn't have even been out of whack). And I certainly was pulling for Italy to get the boot as well.

:joker:


oh yes, now i realize, you are the one who yesterday said Stam is an horrible defender...

anyway, for your knowledge, this was the classification before that game:
Messico 6
Croazia 3
Italia 3
Ecuador 0

on the last day Italy-Messico and Croatia-Ecuador were played.(at the same time,of course)
As you should see a draw against Messico would have very probably meant elimination for Italy since Croatia was facing an hopeless Ecuador team in his last game.. Italy was lucky there, going thorugh despite the draw.
Basically you are saying Italy fixed a draw that would have probably been lethal :joker:
An EVENTUALLY fixed 2-2 draw between Denmark and Sweden meant sure qualification for both teams....see the difference??

Haha, you are kidding me right? You couldn't possibly have watched that game? That was a clear fix, Sweden - Denmark was in no way a fix. Why would Denmark want to face the Czechs in the quarter when they could have faced a much weaker Dutch team?

And BTW I still think Stam sucks. The only defender who can be slower than him is Frank de Boer. Face reality, Stam isn't a world class defender. Even Lazio have realized it and played him right back a couple of times. But hey, if you think Stam is so good, be my guest.. ;)

Why would Denmark want to face the Czechs in the quarter when they could have faced a much weaker Dutch team?

And BTW I still think Stam sucks. The only defender who can be slower than him is Frank de Boer. Face reality, Stam isn't a world class defender. Even Lazio have realized it and played him right back a couple of times. But hey, if you think Stam is so good, be my guest.. ;)

Stam's speed is one of his best assests, he won our all of our speed relays in camp about 2 weeks ago. He pretty is the best defender in the world, and apparantly, the FIFA commitee likes to think so too.. He's our best and most reliable player period, have fun getting by him on saterday.

Dutch much weaker than the Czech's? Eloborate..

And BTW I still think Stam sucks. The only defender who can be slower than him is Frank de Boer. Face reality, Stam isn't a world class defender. Even Lazio have realized it and played him right back a couple of times. But hey, if you think Stam is so good, be my guest.. ;)

Stam is most certainly NOT slow.
You could argue that he has trouble with agile strikers when he has to make quick twists and turns, but in the pace department (ie sprints of more than 15 metres) he's not slow at all.

And BTW I still think Stam sucks. The only defender who can be slower than him is Frank de Boer. Face reality, Stam isn't a world class defender. Even Lazio have realized it and played him right back a couple of times. But hey, if you think Stam is so good, be my guest.. ;)
:snide:


Once again, good stuff !

Dutch much weaker than the Czech's? Eloborate..

The dutch defense isn't very good, the team doesn't last for 90 minutes, Advocaat is a questionable coach, Davids is overrated. They do have great offensive force on the wing and several great strikers. I really like most dutch players but they're not as good as the Czechs.The Czechs really play with a lot of heart and they are the best "team", they work very well together. Great wing backs, solid central defenders, world class midfielders and strikers.

I'm pretty sure Holland will beat Sweden since our best wingback (Edman) is suspended and we don't really have anyone to replace him with. And since the dutch's wing attacks are pretty good they can use it to create scoring chances. As long as Holland keeps the ball at Swedens half it won't be a problem for them. But if Sweden practices high pressure, Hollands defenders will get in trouble.

Sorry if you guys have a problem with me dissin' Stam, but honestly I think he's really awful. But we can't all think the same way. IMO most #1 defenders on most of the teams in Euro 2004 are better than Stam. But as I said, IMO. Not yours obviously...

Sorry if you guys have a problem with me dissin' Stam, but honestly I think he's really awful.

You're the only one I've ever heard saying Stam is awful. Give me examples of his "bad play" wtf has he ever done wrong to be labeled an awful defenseman?

Me things you're just trying to look interesting by trashtalking a player that has never been trashtalked before in his life..

And the Czechs are actually relatively weak up front.. Koller is big but it stops there, Baros is quick and clutch, but far from a world class striker..

Haha, you are kidding me right? You couldn't possibly have watched that game? That was a clear fix,..
:joker: :joker:
Obviously i saw that game.
I'm less sure you have taken your time to read what i wrote on the subject in my previous post. It looks like is not worthy going through further discussion with you..



Sweden - Denmark was in no way a fix. Why would Denmark want to face the Czechs in the quarter when they could have faced a much weaker Dutch team?
:lol




And BTW I still think Stam sucks. The only defender who can be slower than him is Frank de Boer.Face reality, Stam isn't a world class defender. Even Lazio have realized it and played him right back a couple of times. But hey, if you think Stam is so good, be my guest.. ;)
:joker:

The dutch defense isn't very good,..
:eek:

instead the Czech defense is great, right??
:joker: :lol

I am NOT saying it wasnt the right decision here what i am saying is IT IS ALMOST unheard of. And my guess was that they where going to be given a long one when i looked on the scores in the 85th minute. Since at that point with Denmark up 2-1 and Italy still only in a tied game vs this championships worst team i figured they would get some insane amount of extra time and thats what happened since they got 5 min extra to play around with.
Do me a favour, you are/were clearly implying it was a biased decision..and that's even hilarious since the referee badly damaged Italy's chances during that game, as i explained before..

I am a firm believer of that 5 min extra time in a half is extremely rare and almost unheard of until you supply evidence that shows that 5 min extra of stoppage time is something that happens pretty often. until that it is ALMOST UNHEARD OFF
Where have you been the last ten years?
I'm not taking time here to supply proves, maybe all the other guys on this board could try to explain to you that 5 minutes extra time is not that rare and of course not something 'almost unheard of', instead of trying to convince Seiza that Stam doesn't suck since it seems to be a hopeless mission :joker:

By the way helicopter, Helveg cant be that bad a defender his team conceded two goals. 1 a harsh penalty if you watch on the replay and then a gift from the goalie. He has progressed further than your Italian muppets! :joker: :lol
I'm helicecopter, mister Coppo.
I guess you have enjoyed the way Helveg defended on the wing on Swedish second goal! :joker:

My Italian puppets?
this is what i wrote on 13th May:
' Vieri- this year has been a shadow of himself. Since Trap will play him nonetheless
Italy better hopes the change of scenario ( inter-national team) will wake him up
DelPiero- suffered 2 serious injuries to the same calf during this season; Since coming back has been a shadow. If he can regain good form he deserves the call but maybe it would be better for Italy to leave him out. An out of shape DelPiero has already killed Italian chances in ’98 WC and in ’00 EU. When on the roster the Italian media would create the usual caos if he doesn’t play (or if he plays poorly)'

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=76255&page=2&pp=40

and this is what i wrote after Italian roster was released on 19th May:

' Trap did it once again.. what an ARTERIOSCLEROTIC MORON this man is!!
no surprises here anyway:
a carpenter (Corradi), a zombi (Delpiero) and a bencher (Divaio) all chosen before the best Italian pure forward during the whole season (Gilardino).'
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=76255&page=3&pp=40

These three supposed puppets are the main responsibles for Italy's elimination and it's difficult to say they are MY puppets; i would say i was one seeing before what was coming for Italy..

Of course you could make a case for puppet Totti, but he wasn't ejected during the game so at least it's not his fault if Italy played with 10 or 9 men every match! :joker:

And the Czechs are actually relatively weak up front.. Koller is big but it stops there, Baros is quick and clutch, but far from a world class striker..

Why should you need a bunch of world class strikers. With their style of play they only need two strikers and they have two, with a talented young player like Heinz as bonus.


Sorry if you guys have a problem with me dissin' Stam, but honestly I think he's really awful. But we can't all think the same way. IMO most #1 defenders on most of the teams in Euro 2004 are better than Stam. But as I said, IMO. Not yours obviously...
Oh no, you're allowed to dish everyone but you lost all your credibility by saying that Stam is almost as slow as Frank de Boer while he's actually pretty fast.

You're entitled to your opinion but there are limits. If you think he's really awful then who am I to say he is not.


The dutch defense isn't very good.
No indeed, it is not VERY good but not something to worried about either. It's not always black and white, you know, there's a middle course.


Advocaat is a questionable coach.
I don't think anyone have their doubts about that.


Davids is overrated.
I've have always said that as well but I'm impressed by his last two games. I've seen the old Davids again. However, I get the feeling you say he's overrated while you actually mean he isn't good, that would be too bad.


I'm pretty sure Holland will beat Sweden since our best wingback (Edman) is suspended and we don't really have anyone to replace him with. And since the dutch's wing attacks are pretty good they can use it to create scoring chances. As long as Holland keeps the ball at Swedens half it won't be a problem for them. But if Sweden practices high pressure, Hollands defenders will get in trouble.

Oh yes, I see. The Dutch will beat Sweden because their left-defender is suspended ?!!? LOL Edman is playing in the Dutch league for subtopper SC Heerenveen. Like Sweden don't have other players to make the difference.

And the Czechs are actually relatively weak up front.. Koller is big but it stops there, Baros is quick and clutch, but far from a world class striker..

Whoops, I should've replied to this earlier!

Baros is not a world class striker in se, but he has been one of the three or four best strikers this tournament. He's not much of a passer but he's a great dribbler and if you give him half a chance he'll bury it. My point, he's in such great form at the moment you have to take him into account as 'world class' at this tournament, if you understand what I mean.

It's typical these days that players who don't always play for their teams or had injury problems thoughout the season start to shine in these end of season tournaments (Ruud was injured, Baros injured and benched, Rooney didn't play an incredible amount of games either, ....)


As for Jan Koller, he most certainly isn't a goalscorer, but he's a very good player who is extremely important to the Czechs.
I don't know if I've already said this here on HF, but when Jan first came to Belgium to play for Lokeren, I was unlucky enough to be a season ticket holder. I can honestly tell you that the crowd would sometimes just burst out in laughter with what Koller was doing. He was one of the worstplayers I ever saw on the Belgian pitches. He was like a wall, the ball just came off him depending on the angle it was passed to him.
But if you look at where he is now... It doesn't always look pretty, but it's effective. And his technical ability has reached heights I really thought were impossible for him.
For me Koller is a very good player, and calling him 'big and nothing more' is clearly not a good description of him, he's too good for that.

Jan only has two flaws for me: he's not a goalscorer and he dives way too much.
But otherwise: great teamsplayer, more than decent technique, incredible work rate and a great defender as well!

Oh yes, I see. The Dutch will beat Sweden because their left-defender is suspended ?!!? LOL Edman is playing in the Dutch league for subtopper SC Heerenveen. Like Sweden don't have other players to make the difference.
Actually Sweden don´t have any natural left-defensemen other than Edman and the injured Teddy Lucic. Teddy will hopefully be ready to play again on Saturday but it is most uncertain. Johan Mjällby could be an option or possibly the inexperienced Petter Hansson.

I fear the worst against Holland.

It's clear to me now, the Swedish fans are leaning towards the underdog position. :)