Top Soccer Players? [Archive]

Ajacied

06-21-2004, 11:32 AM

First off, David Beckham isn't even his own nation's top player. He's arguably the most overrated player in the world and if it wasn't for that right leg of his, he'd be playing cricket. He's a top 50 player most likely, but anything higher is pushing it..

As for the yellow card, it totally depends on the situation and the foul. Referee's usually give warnings for the bareable fouls like pulling on one's shirt, misstimed tackle's, pushing, or touching the ball with your hands, but he's allowed to pull out his yellow card if any of fouls are a tad too much. Referee's also tend to be more careful handing out a second yellow card to a certain player..

Some soccer stars..

Pretty much the entire Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch and Brazilian squads.. :D

Roughneck

06-21-2004, 11:53 AM

There really is no penalty for a yellow card except for the free kick or even penalty that is automatic with all fouls in certain areas. It's the second yellow players are worried about getting so they tend to play more cautiously.

There's far too many players to name as the best in the world just because theres so many leagues and it wouldn't do justice to most of them.

monster_bertuzzi

06-21-2004, 12:44 PM

As for the yellow card, it totally depends on the situation and
Some soccer stars..

Pretty much the entire Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch and Brazilian squads.. :D

Ronaldo, Luis Figo, Ronaldhino, Zinadine Zidane, and Craig Forrest are some of the niggest soccer stars in the world.

Ajacied

06-21-2004, 12:49 PM

Craig Forrest

He rocks!

Ar-too

06-21-2004, 01:06 PM

Can't forget about Ruud Van Nistlecan'tspellhislastname

BrooklynCanuck

06-21-2004, 01:10 PM

Thierry. Henry.

Ajacied

06-21-2004, 01:11 PM

Can't forget about Ruud Van Nistlecan'tspellhislastname

He hardly has a hard last name to spell.. Nistelrooy.. that's it, easy as dell..

Suiteness

06-21-2004, 01:50 PM

Thierry. Henry.

Second most overrated after Beckham. Whenever he steps on the field in International play, will only manage to score against shyte teams.

Jeffrey

06-21-2004, 02:27 PM

can we consider any of ronaldhino,ibrahimovic or rooney has superstar?(they all impressed me a lot)
and henry is great ! he's not really overrated IMO ..

Roughneck

06-21-2004, 02:30 PM

Ronaldinho I would consider a superstar.

Ibrahimovic is on the brink, could be one soon enough.

And Rooney, well, there's not much more you can do as an 18 year old. So yes, a superstar.

Evilo

06-21-2004, 02:46 PM

Second most overrated after Beckham. Whenever he steps on the field in International play, will only manage to score against shyte teams.
Then I guess the whole english league is awful after his 30 goals, 15 assists performance this season. :shakehead
BTW, please read the FAQ and from now on avoid circumventing the language filter.

HABitude

06-21-2004, 03:24 PM

Barthez is a very good goalie.

Makalele in mid-field defence is good too. (in my soccer game Winning Eleven;) )

Forwards: Frooibad (deutch), Sventenko, Asthley Cole, Trezeget, Figo, Ronaldo, etc.
Good potential in Djibrill Cissé. A lot of super-stars are from Neitherlands (orange shirt), it's a mystery why they never win the Moundial.:dunno:

Some soccer experts says the very best players performs in Italy and Spain professional leagues instead of England (where Henry who is overated is the best scorer)

Strizzi

06-21-2004, 03:30 PM

Barthez is a very good goalie.

Makalele in mid-field defence is good too. (in my soccer game Winning Eleven;) )

Forwards: Frooibad (deutch), Sventenko, Asthley Cole, Trezeget, Figo, Ronaldo, etc.
Good potential in Djibrill Cissé.

Some soccer experts says the very best players performs in Italy and Spain professional leagues instead of England (where Henry who is overated is the best scorer)
Barthez? Makelele? Cole? Figo? None of them is among the world's best players. Horrible list...

Roughneck

06-21-2004, 03:52 PM

Barthez? Makelele? Cole? Figo? None of them is among the world's best players. Horrible list...

Well he did say in his soccer game. In that case El Hadji Diouf is the best striker in England and Emile Heskey isn't useless.

Cloned

06-21-2004, 03:59 PM

Well he did say in his soccer game. In that case El Hadji Diouf is the best striker in England and Emile Heskey isn't useless.

Winning Eleven? Best soccer players?

Maradona, Pele, Eusebio, Cruyff, and Guillit. ;)

But the developers did tend to overrate a few players, namely Figo. I would also say Cristiano Ronaldo gets no respect (ratings wise) in that game.

In the real world... hard to say, lots of great players popping up everywhere. For big_steve, taking a quick look at the rosters of many of the contenders at Euro 2004 should give you a introduction to many of them.

Be wary, though, as the Italians opted to select Di Vaio... maybe Trappatoni plays Winning Eleven too? :D

HABitude

06-21-2004, 04:01 PM

But in reality the very best player in the world is Andriy SHEVCHENKO. The original poster was asking who are the best players, now I gave him the best one, equivalent of Illiah Kovalchuck in hockey. You want to know who is the best? Search who is the best scorer in Italian and Spain Leagues where they play the most exiting soccer. In G-B the best is Henry. And Henry is half as good as a guy like Shevchenko. In England leagues wingers have planty of space in the corridors, so Henry shines like a super-star.

Look at his web site: http://www.wsoccer.com/players/shevchenko/

Top scorer of Italian League, he's got 24 goals while Trezeguet have 16 :
http://www.wsoccer.com/mas/soccer2/italy_topscorers.htm

Figo is not good, well maybe you're right but his name is famous. He just helped his national team (Portugal) reach quarter-finals yesterday.

Brownies

06-21-2004, 04:02 PM

Pavel Nedved is awesome !!! :yo:

Strizzi

06-21-2004, 04:04 PM

And Henry is half as good as a guy like Shevchenko.
BS. Do you ever watch any soccer, or do you have all you soccer knowledge from internet sites? Sheva is great, but twice as good as Henry? Give me a break.

no one important

06-21-2004, 04:05 PM

Pavel Nedved is awesome !!! :yo:

Indeed!

So much fun to watch, so much creativity!

HABitude

06-21-2004, 04:28 PM

BS. Do you ever watch any soccer, or do you have all you soccer knowledge from internet sites? Sheva is great, but twice as good as Henry? Give me a break.

I often discuss with europeans about different sports and an expert told me Sheva might be the very best one now. He told me how overated Henry is and it's because the way soccer is played in England.

Now, here is some stats about top scorers of different leagues:

Shevchenko leads Italian League, followed by Alberto Gilardino and Francesco Totti

In Dutch League Mateja Kezman have a big 31 goals

Thierry Henry is top scorer of England league, followed by Alan Shearer and Rudd Van Nistelrooy

Djibril Cissé is top scorer of France league,followed by Didier Drogba

Unfortunately, there is a bug when I try to get the top scorers of Spain League at Worldsoccer.com, it shows Italian's scorers result.

It's true that Nedved is one of the top players.

Predatore

06-21-2004, 05:13 PM

Roughneck

06-21-2004, 06:58 PM

How could you not put in a single Swede on that list. Might as well have squaked in Kallstrom ;)

Leopold Stotch

06-21-2004, 07:47 PM

Real Madrid's team has a few stars on the team.

Zidane Zinedine is one of the better mid-fielders out there, and Ronaldo is arguably the best striker in football, if not the best player who is still playing today. Beckham is overrated, but the thing about overrated players is that even though they are overrated, people forget that they're actually pretty good.

There's others, many of which I don't know the names of, but one I do remember(one of my favorite players), is Totti. Though not a superstar player or scorer, he is a great playmaker from what I've seen.

Suiteness

06-21-2004, 09:32 PM

Then I guess the whole english league is awful after his 30 goals, 15 assists performance this season. :shakehead
BTW, please read the FAQ and from now on avoid circumventing the language filter.

Well, when the second top scorer in the league is Alan Shearer, friggin' over the hill, way past it, one dimensional sack of crap ALAN SHEARER, than yes, I can say the Premiership is an awful overrated crap league.

Henry is not worth Ronaldo or Schevchenko's jock sweat.

HABitude

06-21-2004, 09:47 PM

Well, when the second top scorer in the league is Alan Shearer, friggin' over the hill, way past it, one dimensional sack of crap ALAN SHEARER, than yes, I can say the Premiership is an awful overrated crap league.

Henry is not worth Ronaldo or Schevchenko's jock sweat.

Yeah, thanks for second me. ;) :D
I would take the 3 best scorers of Italian or Spanish league over the 3 best of England league any time.

Sheva, Ronaldo and Nedved rocks! :yo: :yo:

TVanek26*

06-21-2004, 09:51 PM

Paulo Maldini?:D:)

Heh.

Ajacied

06-21-2004, 10:09 PM

Defenders
Alessandro Nesta
Gianluca Zambrotta
Rio Ferdinand (yeah, yeah)
Fabio Cannavaro
Lilian Thuram
Javier Zanetti

Midfield/Attacking midfielders
Zinedine Zidane
Michael Ballack
Clarence Seedorf
Edgar Davids
Fransesco Totti
Ronaldinho
Pablo Aimar
Patrick Vieira
Pavel Nedved

Forwards/Strikers
Javier Saviola
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Thierry Henry
David Trezeguet
Ronaldo
Raul
Christian Vieri
Hernan Crespo
Andriy Shevchenko
Patrick Kluivert

Big stars because of their names/reputation
Luis Figo
David Beckham
Roberto Carlos
Alessandro Del Piero

Potential superstars
Wayne Rooney
Christiano Ronaldo
Vincent Kompany
Arjen Robben
Pierre Van Der Vaart
Kaka
Diego
Carlos Alberto
Ricardo Quaresma
Reyes
Vicente
Casillas
Petr Cech
Fernando Torres
Robinho
Antonio Cassano
John Heitinga
Wesley Sneijder
Carlos Tevez
Jermaine Jenas

yeah, yeah.. I probably forgot so many players that it is scary :p: ;)

Where's FIFA's reigning defensemen of the World? Jaapie Stam?

And Pierre van der Vaart? Who's that? ;) .. (it's Rafael..)

FearTheFlyers

06-21-2004, 10:11 PM

LeeIs

06-21-2004, 10:24 PM

Paulo Maldini?:D:)

Heh.

*Spelling : Karl Heinz Romenige :D:)

BrooklynCanuck

06-21-2004, 10:29 PM

Rooney has been making a pretty good case for present superstar status in Euro2004.

Evilo

06-21-2004, 11:10 PM

Italian (...) League(s) where they play the most exiting soccer.
:lol:
OK when north americans are trying to tell europeans they know nothing about soccer, sometimes it's really hilarious.

Seiza

06-21-2004, 11:54 PM

Where's FIFA's reigning defensemen of the World? Jaapie Stam?

Stam is a horrible defender. He's a huge risk to have on any team.

And all the talk about Henry being overrated. Forget about it, he's the best player in the world IMO. There was nobody even close to him last season. 30 goals and 15 assists!!!

Strizzi

06-22-2004, 12:40 AM

Stam is a horrible defender. He's a huge risk to have on any team.
No.

monster_bertuzzi

06-22-2004, 01:03 AM

Stam is a horrible defender. He's a huge risk to have on any team.

And all the talk about Henry being overrated. Forget about it, he's the best player in the world IMO. There was nobody even close to him last season. 30 goals and 15 assists!!!

*cough* Ronaldo *cough*

Strizzi

06-22-2004, 01:23 AM

*cough* Ronaldo *cough*
*cough* Henry was better last season *cough*

Bubbles

06-22-2004, 01:26 AM

Potential superstars

yeah, yeah.. I probably forgot so many players that it is scary :p: ;)

Alberto Gilardino, 23 Goals in Serie A this past year. ( and NOT taken by Italy in Euro 2004 :mad: )

Bubbles

06-22-2004, 01:39 AM

Paulo Maldini?:D:)

Heh.

Still my favourite player of all time! :bow:

Coppo

06-22-2004, 01:40 AM

Habitude you know nothing about football, the italian league is the most boring in europe! The spanish league and english premiership are the most entertaining! Italians might have the best players in depth but its so uninteresting nobody wants to watch it! :shakehead

By the way id take Thierry Henry,Ruud Van Nistelrooy/louis saha and Michael Owen/Alan Shearer/Wayne Rooney over all the leagues. the italian league is technically the best no doubt. granted Shevchenko/Vieri/Trezeguet are great. Dont consider Totti to be a centre forward he is a much more gifted player than just a centre forward and creates alot of goals. Spain Ronaldo/Saviola/Torres/mista/pandiani are they better than the premiership strikers I dont think so. I think alot more goals in spain are scored by the midfield players.

You dont obviously watch Alan Shearer enough to realise how good he is,he is unbelievable in the air,strong as an ox you cant knock him of the ball. good target man holds the ball up brilliantly and he has a rocket for a shot!The only thing he lacks is pace these days. But his football brain is excellent and is always in the right positions!

Safir*

06-22-2004, 03:06 AM

Goalkeepers
Gianluigi Buffon
Oliver Kahn

Defenders
Alessandro Nesta
Gianluca Zambrotta
Rio Ferdinand (yeah, yeah)
Fabio Cannavaro
Lilian Thuram
Javier Zanetti

Midfield/Attacking midfielders
Zinedine Zidane
Michael Ballack
Clarence Seedorf
Edgar Davids
Fransesco Totti
Ronaldinho
Pablo Aimar
Patrick Vieira
Pavel Nedved

Forwards/Strikers
Javier Saviola
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Thierry Henry
David Trezeguet
Ronaldo
Raul
Christian Vieri
Hernan Crespo
Andriy Shevchenko
Patrick Kluivert

Big stars because of their names/reputation
Luis Figo
David Beckham
Roberto Carlos
Alessandro Del Piero

Potential superstars
Wayne Rooney
Christiano Ronaldo
Vincent Kompany
Arjen Robben
Pierre Van Der Vaart
Kaka
Diego
Carlos Alberto
Ricardo Quaresma
Reyes
Vicente
Casillas
Petr Cech
Fernando Torres
Robinho
Antonio Cassano
John Heitinga
Wesley Sneijder
Carlos Tevez
Jermaine Jenas

yeah, yeah.. I probably forgot so many players that it is scary :p: ;)
D:
I would add: Stam
I would stratch: Thuram is getting old and nowhere near the top anymore.

M:
I would add: Zambrotta (since he's a d-midfielder in my book) maybe Vicente, allthough he's still pretty young.
I would stratch: Seedorf, Davids

F:
I would add: Owen
I would stretch: Crespo, Kluivert
Raúl had a weak season, but he still makes my list, since his skills are undeniable.;)

Potential future stars:
I would only add: Philipp Lahm

Coppo

06-22-2004, 03:26 AM

John Heitinga has been nothing short of poor in the games ive watched, im quite suprised he was picked in front of reiziger! He is a terrible tackler,Deserved his red card in my eyes! The only thing he has done well is the half volley shot that cech made an exceptional save off apart from that defensively he has had problems in both games!

Coppo

06-22-2004, 04:28 AM

Do you agree that heitinga has been poor though Van? He is only young and im sure he is going to be a good prospect. Van de Vaart,Robben and sneijder coming through it looks good for dutch football in the future!

By the way Jermaine Defoe is going to be a superstar in a few years he is better than Owen I reckon!!

Predatore

06-22-2004, 04:43 AM

Where's FIFA's reigning defensemen of the World? Jaapie Stam?[/size]

doh!

And Pierre van der Vaart? Who's that? ;)

doh!

seedorf?

why not?

Alberto Gilardino, 23 Goals in Serie A this past year. ( and NOT taken by Italy in Euro 2004 :mad: )

doh!

D:
I would stratch: Thuram is getting old and nowhere near the top anymore.

me likes Thuram very much still :)

D:
Potential future stars:
I would only add: Philipp Lahm

doh!

helicecopter

06-22-2004, 07:08 AM

Absolutely HILARIOUS thread!!!

Forwards: Frooibad (deutch), Sventenko, Asthley Cole, Trezeget, Figo, Ronaldo, etc.
..And Henry is half as good as a guy like Shevchenko..

:joker:
:lol

Stam is a horrible defender. He's a huge risk to have on any team.

:loony:

John Heitinga...deserved his red card in my eyes!
:joker:

:lol

..the italian league is the most boring in europe! The spanish league and english premiership are the most entertaining! Italians might have the best players in depth but its so uninteresting nobody wants to watch it!
Talk about exaggerations!!

helicecopter

06-22-2004, 07:13 AM

Goalkeepers
Oliver Kahn

Defenders
Lilian Thuram

Forwards/Strikers
Christian Vieri

NO MORE. :)

helicecopter

06-22-2004, 07:15 AM

Okay guys, I'm pretty damn new to soccer. I enjoy watching it but hardly really know anything about it. I think I understand the rules except for the yellow card. What's the penalty for getting a yellow card? Also, can someone please tell me soccer's top stars besides Zinedine Zidane and David Beckham. And can you please include the country and team in which they play for.

Thanks in advance.

RICARDO IZECSON KAKA (milan, Brasil)
:yo:

Teezax

06-22-2004, 07:39 AM

Recipe for cup winner:

Italian Goaltending and Defence
French and Dutch midfield
Brazilian Strikers

Predatore

06-22-2004, 08:03 AM

Swedish coach ? :dunno: :D

big_steve

06-22-2004, 08:16 AM

Goalkeepers
Gianluigi Buffon
Oliver Kahn

Defenders
Alessandro Nesta
Gianluca Zambrotta
Rio Ferdinand (yeah, yeah)
Fabio Cannavaro
Lilian Thuram
Javier Zanetti

Midfield/Attacking midfielders
Zinedine Zidane
Michael Ballack
Clarence Seedorf
Edgar Davids
Fransesco Totti
Ronaldinho
Pablo Aimar
Patrick Vieira
Pavel Nedved

Forwards/Strikers
Javier Saviola
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Thierry Henry
David Trezeguet
Ronaldo
Raul
Christian Vieri
Hernan Crespo
Andriy Shevchenko
Patrick Kluivert

Big stars because of their names/reputation
Luis Figo
David Beckham
Roberto Carlos
Alessandro Del Piero

Potential superstars
Wayne Rooney
Christiano Ronaldo
Vincent Kompany
Arjen Robben
Pierre Van Der Vaart
Kaka
Diego
Carlos Alberto
Ricardo Quaresma
Reyes
Vicente
Casillas
Petr Cech
Fernando Torres
Robinho
Antonio Cassano
John Heitinga
Wesley Sneijder
Carlos Tevez
Jermaine Jenas

yeah, yeah.. I probably forgot so many players that it is scary :p: ;)

Thanks for the list. More then I wanted so a very big thank you.(BTW, I have not yet read the rest of the thread)

EDIT: Can someone here please give me a website with info on these guys.

Coppo

06-22-2004, 08:22 AM

helicecopter

06-22-2004, 09:05 AM

helicopter ask most people regarding Seria A and they will tell you its boring to watch, Its very techinical and defensive, the games are not as entertaining as the premiership or la liga its true. Thats not to say its not a great league just a different style which is not pretty to watch!
I am helicecopter.
I know Liga and Premiership are overall more entertaining, the problem i have is that you said:

..the italian league is the most boring in europe! The spanish league and english premiership are the most entertaining! Italians might have the best players in depth but its so uninteresting nobody wants to watch it!

helicecopter

06-22-2004, 09:11 AM

Alberto Gilardino, 23 Goals in Serie A this past year. ( and NOT taken by Italy in Euro 2004 )
:madfire: :madfire:

:banghead:
.
.
.
.
..
...
:banghead: :banghead:

Strizzi

06-22-2004, 09:15 AM

:banghead:
.
.
.
.
..
...
:banghead: :banghead:
Hope you're wearing a helmet ;)

Ajacied

06-22-2004, 09:21 AM

Stam is a horrible defender. He's a huge risk to have on any team

HAHAHAHA..

Sorry about that, but you obviously think Jaap Stam is a tiny black left back playing for Turkey or something cause it's clear you haven't been watching him at all..

Stam is by far the Dutch best player, he's one of the most reliable and dependable players in the entire sport and is FIFA's reigning defenseman of the World. I don't like to brag about Holland's players much, but Stam has done nothing wrong to warrant comments like that..

Safir*

06-22-2004, 09:35 AM

Recipe for cup winner:

Italian Goaltending and Defence
French and Dutch midfield
Brazilian Strikers

I would rather take the Dutch strikers, before the Dutch midfield.

I take the French midfield over the Dutch any day of the week.

Zidane, Vieria, Makelele, Pires, Rothen over Davids, Seedorf, Cocu...etc.

After counting in all factors I would also value the ITA goalies and defense over anybody, but I think that the both are also strongholds of the Germans, if all players are healthy. Why else do think the Germans made it to the 2002 World Cup final?

Strizzi

06-22-2004, 09:38 AM

Why else do think the Germans made it to the 2002 World Cup final?
Because of Ollie and team defense, not because of the defenders in particular. Germany has not had great defenders anymore for a few years.

But I agree that Germany has good goalies (and will have for some years with Hilde and Wiese).

Ajacied

06-22-2004, 09:46 AM

I would rather take the Dutch strikers, before the Dutch midfield.

I take the French midfield over the Dutch any day of the week.

Zidane, Vieria, Makelele, Pires, Rothen over Davids, Seedorf, Cocu...etc

Van der Vaart, Mark van Bommel, Wesley Sneijder..

The Dutch have way more depth in the middle than the French, but he French' could be argued better because it owns a superior player.

And no, Van der Vaart, Sneijder, Davids, van Bommel, Seedorf, Cocu is pretty much tied in terms of talent in comparison to Makaay, Kluivert, van Nistelrooy, van Hooijdonk and Hasselbaink.. Now if Bergkamp counts, then yes, our strikers win relatively easy..

Evilo

06-22-2004, 09:55 AM

Van der Vaart, Mark van Bommel, Wesley Sneijder..

The Dutch have way more depth in the middle than the French, but he French' could be argued better because it owns a superior player.

And no, Van der Vaart, Sneijder, Davids, van Bommel, Seedorf, Cocu is pretty much tied in terms of talent in comparison to Makaay, Kluivert, van Nistelrooy, van Hooijdonk and Hasselbaink.. Now if Bergkamp counts, then yes, our strikers win relatively easy..
Add Pedretti, Makelele, Dacourt, etc...
To say the dutch have "way more depth" in the middle than the french is completely wrong IMO.
Not only is it comparable, but I'd give the edge to France.

Evilo

06-22-2004, 09:56 AM

And for any misinformed one that said Drogba was second on the scorers' list in the french league, check again. Alexander Frei is behind Cisse.

Ajacied

06-22-2004, 10:01 AM

Add Pedretti, Makelele, Dacourt, etc...
To say the dutch have "way more depth" in the middle than the french is completely wrong IMO.
Not only is it comparable, but I'd give the edge to France.

The difference between the Dutch best midfielder and their worst, is quite minimal at best, a good incidation of depth. Anyhow, if you inlcude players like those, I'd add Bosvelt.. I shouldn't have said way more depth, but the Dutch hold the slight advantage IMO. Especially in the future (Pires, Zidane, Viera are all well above 30)..

Teezax

06-22-2004, 10:03 AM

I would rather take the Dutch strikers, before the Dutch midfield.

I take the French midfield over the Dutch any day of the week.

Zidane, Vieria, Makelele, Pires, Rothen over Davids, Seedorf, Cocu...etc.

After counting in all factors I would also value the ITA goalies and defense over anybody, but I think that the both are also strongholds of the Germans, if all players are healthy. Why else do think the Germans made it to the 2002 World Cup final?
I am actually a big Davids fan,. probably because of my Juventus ties, but i think he's one of the best at midfield. It's a position that can fit many tal;ents from around the world, but the French are real strong there and very creative. But the Dutch deserve recognition so I'd put a player or two in there.

Evilo

06-22-2004, 10:10 AM

Actually, YOu added the other selected guys. I just did the same ;)
The french midfielders selected are Vieira, Zidane, Pires, Makelele, Rothen, Pedretti and Dacourt.
That's insane quality here.
As for the future, yes you could argue the dutch have better young midfielders. But as of now, I think France has the edge.
Anyway, while we talk about the future, I'm amazed by the fact we've had two generations of amazing players in France.
We've been lucky enough to see a generation of Deschamps, Desailly, Blanc, Zidane, Pires, Barthez, Lizarazu, Thuram, Petit win many trophies.
After that the youngest of these guys (Zidane, Pires...) were able to play with an incredibly gifted generation (Henry, Trezeguet, Gallas, Vieira...).
And the fact is that the generation after that looks amazing as well (Cisse, Mexes, Boumsong, Frey, Landreau, Pedretti, Mendy, Rothen, Saha...).

After basically knowing only three generations of top players before that (in the 50s, Rouen and the 58 WC, then the 70s and St Etienne's amazing play and then the golden 82-86 generation), we've been very lucky to witness such french talent on a consistent basis.

Sampe

06-22-2004, 10:19 AM

DutchLeafsfan

06-22-2004, 12:57 PM

I think I could make a case for adding Roy Makaay to the strikers list, whereas Zlatan Ibrahimovic is currently making a case for baing a potential superstar.

HABitude

06-22-2004, 01:10 PM

The difference between Sventenko and Henry?

Well, you have one who succeed in the best championship of the world (the Calcio), and another one who have been fired of the Calcio and who succeed in a championship where Anelka scored 17 goals this season... The defenses of championship italians and english have nothing in common... The space Henry have in England, never he will have it in Italy, he would have to work his way thru and not waiting his opponents to give him gifts.

Okay let's talk about stats now:
Henry played for Juve (16 games played and only 3 goals, hmm hmm). And guess who have the most recent golden ball? Pavel Nedved from Juve (he is really a very good player)

And this cup confirms that Henry is a player who needs space and field depth to show his skills. His weakness shows more against strong teams. Don't be fooled by his recent two goals against swiss team... swiss cheese... :shakehead

I'm not saying Henry is a bad player, he's just overrated by most people. If I go to a french forum I'll have an hard time with my ideas, the same if I go to a spanish about Raoul, or dutch with Van Nistelrooy. Some fans are too biaised to see the reality. They tend to overrate or remember how good he was before. For me, these players are simply not in the same level as Nedved and Shevchenko.

Between a player who as soon as he arrived dominated in the Calcio and another one who as soon arrived left by the little door, I'm sorry but they are not the same level. If Henry was as good as people say, he would have dominate the italian championship (I would just bring that most of the greatest players of the era became stars in Italy, if there is a common point it's this one). Henry didn't left because he didn't like eating spaghettis, he wasn't good enough..

Just look what makes the great players, whatever the opponents are, even if he have only a square feet to play, he will make his play... Look at Zidane play and you'll see what is a GREAT player.

Strizzi

06-22-2004, 01:34 PM

Honestly: How much have you seen these guys play?

Evilo

06-22-2004, 03:13 PM

BTW, Henry left the Calcio because the Juve coach insisted on making him a midfielder.
Henry never played as a striker in Juventus.

Roughneck

06-22-2004, 03:32 PM

How is Patrick Vieira being 27 considered well above 30?

How is Robert Pires being 30 considered well above 30?

How is Zinedine Zidane being 31 considered well above 30?

French years are longer than everyone else's years I guess. They just love scrwing us around like that.

DutchLeafsfan

06-22-2004, 03:50 PM

Moreover when Henry played in Italy he was much younger; he has developed very well since. While I am not exactly sure whether he is the best player in the world, he is unquestionably one of the best strikers in the world. One thing which you also seem to miss is that a striker can be more than just a goalscorer. While for instance Roy Makaay, Ruud van Nistelrooy and David Trezeguet are primarily goalscorers (and arguably better finishers than Henry) and often finish off the feeds from their teammates, Henry can also create space for himself with the ball or go on a run and enable a teammate to score.

As for the Serie A being the best league in the world, I have my doubts. It certainly has its wualities, and the majority of the best defenders in the world play in the Serie A. However, one can easily make a case for the Primiera division, and the Premier League should not be entirely accounted either. While there have been players who 'failed' in the Serie A but succeeded elsewhere, this does not nescesarily mean they are any worse than those who succeed, but indicates the completely different style of play in Italy. Moreover, tactical plans of the coach can often be incompatible with the qualities of a certain player. Whereas Shevchenko (who is one of the better strikers in the world as well) fits perfectly within the Milan system, the plans which Juve had for Henry did not use his talents properly. Same applies for a player like Dennis Bergkamp, who ended up playing in an Inter system which nearly completely wasted his talents, contrary to Arsene Wengers Arsenal system.

And with all due respect HABitude, but like already mentioned it would almost seem like you get your information from games like Championship Manager; your failure to spell most of the names properly does not improve your credibility either...

Frolov 6'3

06-22-2004, 04:42 PM

Stam is a horrible defender. He's a huge risk to have on any team.

:snide:

bert2nazzy

06-22-2004, 04:55 PM

1. Zidane
2. Ronaldo
3. Figo
4. Henry
5. Vaneisteroy(sp) lol

monster_bertuzzi

06-22-2004, 04:59 PM

Not a bad top 5, bert.

Mine:

1.Ronaldo (seriously, this guy is head-and-shoulders the best soccer player in the world, so Henry had a better year than Ronaldo.....Doan had a better year than Bertuzzi too, whats your point?)
2.Zidane
3.Henry
4.Ronaldhino
5.Figo

DutchLeafsfan

06-22-2004, 04:59 PM

1. Zidane
2. Ronaldo
3. Figo
4. Henry
5. Vaneisteroy(sp) lol

Figo no longer even cracks my Top 30, quite possibly even less... He is arguably even more overrated than David Beckham, and even less valuable for his team...

Suiteness

06-22-2004, 05:12 PM

Figo no longer even cracks my Top 30, quite possibly even less... He is arguably even more overrated than David Beckham, and even less valuable for his team...

What a complete pile of horse manure. At the start of the season, they moved Figo to the left side of midfield to accomodate Beckham. Figo proceeded to outplay Beckham soundly throughout the year. To the extent that they benched Beckham's useless ass for most of the season.

Figo was hands down the top player for Real Madrid this year, outplaying Zidane, Raul, Ronaldo, etc.

The Rage

06-22-2004, 05:16 PM

Figo was hands down the top player for Real Madrid this year, outplaying Zidane, Raul, Ronaldo, etc.

Figo's a lazy a$$. He's been outplayed by a 19 year old teammate during Euro. An incredible talent, but a lazy a$$ who makes a couple of good moves but either doesn't have the stamina or the will to make a final killer play.

The Rage

06-22-2004, 05:20 PM

A team I would pay to watch right now:

---------Ronaldo---Ronaldinho-------

--------------Zidane----------------
Henry----------------------C.Ronaldo
--------------Vieira-----------------

Chivu----------------------Zambrotta
---------Nesta----Cannavaro--------

--------------Buffon----------------

Switch Henry and Ronaldinho, and get rid of C.Ronaldo. The kid might belong there eventually, but certainly not yet. I don't have much of a problem with the rest, but I would take Samuel or Staam over Cannavaro, and Puyol over Zambrotta.

Frolov 6'3

06-22-2004, 05:24 PM

Figo no longer even cracks my Top 30, quite possibly even less... He is arguably even more overrated than David Beckham, and even less valuable for his team...

He would still crack my top30 but he isn't the player anymore from three years ago. Actually, he never reached his Barcelona level again with Real Madrid. He became a whiner over there.

rangers

06-22-2004, 05:37 PM

What a complete pile of horse manure. At the start of the season, they moved Figo to the left side of midfield to accomodate Beckham. Figo proceeded to outplay Beckham soundly throughout the year. To the extent that they benched Beckham's useless ass for most of the season.

Figo was hands down the top player for Real Madrid this year, outplaying Zidane, Raul, Ronaldo, etc.

Without sounding too rude...Open your eyes for god`s sake! Figo is terrible. A whiner that still live on his glory days in the Catalan red and blue...

Figo wouldn`t crack my top 60...hell I`m sure I could find 100 players better than him...

rangers

06-22-2004, 05:38 PM

Switch Henry and Ronaldinho, and get rid of C.Ronaldo. The kid might belong there eventually, but certainly not yet. I don't have much of a problem with the rest, but I would take Samuel or Staam over Cannavaro, and Puyol over Zambrotta.

Puyol over Zambo? Explanation please! Thank you

rangers

06-22-2004, 05:52 PM

Clown.

Coming from a guy situated in Mississauga, Ontario..also known as the football capital of the world...Man Utd and Real Madrid, right? :shakehead

I`m getting tired of this. Americans trying to school Europeans when it comes to football... "Figo is good", "Figo is awesome", "Beckham is the best, and sexy" etc. Give it up for crying out loud!! I`ll tell you what Figo is; He`s an way over the top, overhyped footballer still living in the glory from the past. Appart from that he`s extremely slow, a notorious diver and sets himself before the team.

So please....get some knowledge. Ask like some other poster did. Don`t try to tell me about Figo or any other European footballer...and at least don`t call me clown. When it comes to football I`m 100% sure you`re a much bigger "clown" than me..

The Rage

06-22-2004, 06:08 PM

Coming from a guy situated in Mississauga, Ontario..also known as the football capital of the world...Man Utd and Real Madrid, right? :shakehead

Although I'm inclined to agree with you in this particular debate, what's wrong with being from Ontario? Does being from Europe give you some innate football knowledge us North Americans don't have? I've never seen a Candanian on these boards criticise a European or American for not having enough hockey knowledge just because they aren't from aplace where hockey is king. However, this is the second time in as many days that I've seen a European criticise a North American for commitiing the high crime of actually putting forth an opinion concerning football.

The Rage

06-22-2004, 06:10 PM

Puyol over Zambo? Explanation please! Thank you

Zambrotta is great, no doubt. I was just picking Puyol out of personal preference, though I can see how someone would disagree.

Suiteness

06-22-2004, 08:21 PM

Figo's a lazy a$$. He's been outplayed by a 19 year old teammate during Euro. An incredible talent, but a lazy a$$ who makes a couple of good moves but either doesn't have the stamina or the will to make a final killer play.

What kind of stupid argument is that? You do realize that an 18 year old is outplaying the ENTIRE English team? Does that mean that England is a team of lazy *****?

Porn*

06-22-2004, 08:28 PM

http://www.tssonnet.com/tss2522/25220660.htm

pretty good list...

The Rage

06-22-2004, 08:50 PM

What kind of stupid argument is that? You do realize that an 18 year old is outplaying the ENTIRE English team? Does that mean that England is a team of lazy *****?

Maybe you ignored the rest of my quote. Also notice how I never said anyone in the English team was an all-world talent.

Roughneck

06-22-2004, 09:03 PM

Coming from a guy situated in Mississauga, Ontario..

I`m getting tired of this. Americans trying to school Europeans when it comes to football...

I'm sick of all these Swedes thinking that just because somebody is in North America they don't know anything about football.

Freudian

06-22-2004, 11:15 PM

If I get to pick only one player I would pick Pavel Nedved. He is as complete a football player you will ever find. Fantastic both offensively and defensively.

As for forwards, Thierry Henry is a step ahead of everyone else.

benji

06-23-2004, 12:09 AM

My favorite:

Javier Saviola, Argentina (FC Barcelona)

Go Barca!

Belgian Fan

06-23-2004, 12:25 AM

I always thought one of the good aspects of football was that it focused less on individual players and 'stars' like the US sports do and more on team play.

I think there has only been one player in the history of football who could win matches on his own and that was Maradona. He was the only guy I've ever seen capable of that. And even he needed a good defense behind him and some help winning the ball in midfield
Than there's guys like Pele, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Platini ... who were pretty good in their own right and sometimes could almowt win a match on their own.

But these days football is so much more a team game. Having the best players doesn' mean you have the best team, just look at Real Madrid or Greece.

There are certain people who are 'game breakers' though, they can decide games with one or two plays. But nobody can win it on their own. And I don't feel like doing a list as it changes too often depending on form.

So even though I applaud the fact that new fans flow to the sport, my advice would be to go out and play it, and learn a bit of the technical and tactical aspects involved. Once you understand that, then you should start watching the big games, players and see how they react to situations and how they can do incredible things to get out of trouble and help their team win.

Seiza

06-23-2004, 01:14 AM

Coming from a guy situated in Mississauga, Ontario..also known as the football capital of the world...Man Utd and Real Madrid, right? :shakehead

I`m getting tired of this. Americans trying to school Europeans when it comes to football... "Figo is good", "Figo is awesome", "Beckham is the best, and sexy" etc. Give it up for crying out loud!! I`ll tell you what Figo is; He`s an way over the top, overhyped footballer still living in the glory from the past. Appart from that he`s extremely slow, a notorious diver and sets himself before the team.

So please....get some knowledge. Ask like some other poster did. Don`t try to tell me about Figo or any other European footballer...and at least don`t call me clown. When it comes to football I`m 100% sure you`re a much bigger "clown" than me..

Well said. Just because you star in most commercials you're not the best soccer player.

And BTW, I still think Jaap Stam sucks. Maybe if he used some more of the drugs he used when he was supposed to be suspended for two years, he would be somewhat better. But for know I could pick one or two defenders in almost each team in the euros that is better than Stam. Just my opinon... ;)

Sampe

06-23-2004, 01:30 AM

Switch Henry and Ronaldinho, and get rid of C.Ronaldo. The kid might belong there eventually, but certainly not yet.

Point taken, but have you seen C.Ronaldo play lately? There's not a single right winger in the world who's more entertaining to watch right now. He's making Figo look like an amateur and outplayed Joaquin in the last game. And Joaquin is absolutely fabulous!

Evilo

06-23-2004, 01:31 AM

Stars are a drawing card, like in all games, and like in every sport, I'd rather have a Zidane than an average midfielder.
That said, like every collective sport, football is a game of chemistry. Witness the french and dutch teams who are playing rather average football with a team full of superstars.
On the other hand, a team like Lille who was full of under average players (the best being Bruno Cheyrou) did some damage in the champions' League a few years ago because they had a great chemistry and a great coach (who in his first year in PSG made the team finish 2nd and win the french cup with ... you guess it great chemistry).
So I think the star players are undoubtebly important, but IMO the coach and the chemistry he manages to make is just as important if not more.

Coppo

06-23-2004, 01:47 AM

When did Beckham get benched for Real Madrid last season he sat out a couple of games due to injury and suspension. He had a great start to the season, think he had the most assists at january and had scored about 6 goals. He then had a dramatic drop but so did the whole team just not beckham. Im not going to come on here and say he is the greatest footballer he is not. His crossing and passing our world class no 1 can say that is not true. He also played in the middle of midfield not on the right, where figo played most of the year, trust me thats true as I pretty much watched most Real Madrid games this year.

If you want to know who the world class goalkeepers are it is clearly Buffon no 1 and casillas no 2! Henry is the no1 striker he is breathtaking to watch live trust me I had the pleasure a few times this season.

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 02:34 AM

That said, like every collective sport, football is a game of chemistry. Witness the french and dutch teams who are playing rather average football with a team full of superstars.

The Dutch played a great game against the Czechs, so I don't get it.

Strizzi

06-23-2004, 02:43 AM

The Dutch played a great game against the Czechs, so I don't get it.
But they managed to give a 2-0 lead out of their hand. A stable team would not have done this. Sure, they showed some amazing stuff, but maintaining a lead is exactly where chemistry and organization matter a lot.

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 02:50 AM

But they managed to give a 2-0 lead out of their hand. A stable team would not have done this. Sure, they showed some amazing stuff, but maintaining a lead is exactly where chemistry and organization matter a lot.

Too bad nobody is noticing that they played with 9 men on the half of the Czechs while playing with ten men and a 2-2 score, give me one team with that attitude. People should pay more attention to that.

Strizzi

06-23-2004, 02:59 AM

Too bad nobody is noticing that they played with 9 men on the half of the Czechs while playing with ten men and a 2-2 score, give me one team with that attitude. People should pay more attention to that.
I was not talking about attitude, I was talking about stability as a team. Thas is only possible if you work together as a team, and everybody knows his job. And mind you that they blew the lead before the red card. Plus I want to add that I never claimed they played a bad game, I always said that they would have deserved a tie, and that I want them in the quarters because of the exciting game they showed. But still, they should have hanged on to the lead.

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 03:21 AM

I was not talking about attitude, I was talking about stability as a team. Thas is only possible if you work together as a team, and everybody knows his job. And mind you that they blew the lead before the red card. Plus I want to add that I never claimed they played a bad game, I always said that they would have deserved a tie, and that I want them in the quarters because of the exciting game they showed. But still, they should have hanged on to the lead.

I know you weren't talking about attitude but I started about that. As I recall, I read a reply that they were playing rather average football and that wasn't correct. Blewing a 2-0 lead is not something to write home about but it wasn't the chemistry or organization. The first goal from the Czechs was a give away and with 2-1 anything can happen. The Czechs and the Dutch got a lot of a chances but that happens when both teams play attacking football, there's nothing you can do about it. If you want to talk about organization then the two Dutch goals are a perfect example. That was bad organization from Czech's side.

Belgian Fan

06-23-2004, 03:24 AM

hehe, a poor football newbie asks us to name a few stars and within a few pages the same old arguments are starting to show their faces.
I'm sure the person who started this thread doesn't have a clue what we're talking about :joker:

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 03:27 AM

Belgian Fan

06-23-2004, 03:31 AM

It still sticks in my throat Belg. ;)

Get rid of Advocaat !

Oh I'm not bothered by it at all.

I'm even starting to feel some sympathy for some of you dutchies. And Advocaat really doesn't have a clue, he's just not the type of coach needed for a star studded offensive squad. Someone with a clear tacticacl concept and a clear view on how things should be done would have been more succesful IMO, even though that hasn't always worked either (Van Gaal - Ireland comes to mind).

I say the team should make a coup today, lock Dickie up in his hotel room and let Van Hanegem take care of the tactics today!

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 03:50 AM

I say the team should make a coup today, lock Dickie up in his hotel room and let Van Hanegem take care of the tactics today!

Yeah, that something we could only hope for.

Advocaat was already known as a defensive coach but I was always willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yet again he proved he's not worth to be the coach of the national team. He reacts on the strenght of the opponent and that's exactly not what the Dutch are known for, we base our concept on our own strenght. Advocaat did something what 40.000 people in the stadium and 16 million people at home couldn't believe. It's always difficult to say we have lost that match because of that substitution but that doesn't mean we should help them by subsituting the best player on the pitch. Where do you that these days ? Besides, the whole concept was changed form 4-3-3 in 4-4-2 and immediately after the Czechs got control over the game. The guy has done absolutely nothing with teams like PSV and the Glasgow Rangers in the European Cup, you won't win anything with him.

It could be over tonight.

Ajacied

06-23-2004, 03:51 AM

It could be over tonight.

Count on it..

Evilo

06-23-2004, 04:30 AM

I know you weren't talking about attitude but I started about that. As I recall, I read a reply that they were playing rather average football and that wasn't correct. Blewing a 2-0 lead is not something to write home about but it wasn't the chemistry or organization. The first goal from the Czechs was a give away and with 2-1 anything can happen. The Czechs and the Dutch got a lot of a chances but that happens when both teams play attacking football, there's nothing you can do about it. If you want to talk about organization then the two Dutch goals are a perfect example. That was bad organization from Czech's side.
Average football compared to their talent.
France also won its group with 7 points ou of 9 and I called their play "average". If France and Holland had the same chemistry or coach as... say Czech Republic, they'd roll over their opponents.

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 04:47 AM

Average football compared to their talent.
France also won its group with 7 points ou of 9 and I called their play "average". If France and Holland had the same chemistry or coach as... say Czech Republic, they'd roll over their opponents.

First of all, I don't understand why they should roll over their opponents. Denmark, Sweden, Czech Republic have played great football. If you think France has played average (which I can't deny btw :snide: ), you should leave the Dutch out of it.

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 04:58 AM

Strizzi

06-23-2004, 05:42 AM

If you want to talk about organization then the two Dutch goals are a perfect example. That was bad organization from Czech's side.
Don't agree here. The first goal was a clear individual mistake by Poborsky, and the 2nd was so strange that it's impossible to blame it on a specific thing.

But wile the goals the Dutch received were a direct result of individual errors, the Czech could generate much too many chances. The Dutch were not able to control the pace of the game, and to slow it down. But for this you need a team that works as a collective, and were everybody knows exactly what his job is. This is what the Oranjes lack at this point, be it because of the coach or because of something else.

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 06:06 AM

Don't agree here. The first goal was a clear individual mistake by Poborsky, and the 2nd was so strange that it's impossible to blame it on a specific thing.

1. A free-kick which was several seconds underway and still was Bouma free as a bird. If somebody would lose the duel with the head then it would be a different story but there was nobody in his surrounding.

2. The complete Czech's defense stood on line without any cover, from miles away you could see that Davids would pass to Robben. Amateurism at his finest and a complete lack of organization.

But wile the goals the Dutch received were a direct result of individual errors, the Czech could generate much too many chances. The Dutch were not able to control the pace of the game, and to slow it down. But for this you need a team that works as a collective, and were everybody knows exactly what his job is. This is what the Oranjes lack at this point, be it because of the coach or because of something else.

Sure, the Dutch generated much too many chances but that's what I tried to explain earlier. Both teams kept playing offensively 1. because the Czechs didn't have much choice and 2. because the Dutch kept relying on their offense. They could have played like Greece, with 10 men in front of the goal but they didn't because they aren't good at that as well. Besides, at a certain moment the Czechs were playing with Poborsky, Koller, Rosicky, Nedved, Smicer and Baros at the same time. IMO it's not fair to blame them for a lack of organization or chemistry, while The Netherlands showed so much guts.

rangers

06-23-2004, 06:19 AM

Although I'm inclined to agree with you in this particular debate, what's wrong with being from Ontario? Does being from Europe give you some innate football knowledge us North Americans don't have? I've never seen a Candanian on these boards criticise a European or American for not having enough hockey knowledge just because they aren't from aplace where hockey is king. However, this is the second time in as many days that I've seen a European criticise a North American for commitiing the high crime of actually putting forth an opinion concerning football.

Well, for starters being from Europe gives us the chance to watch much more football than you guys do in NA (There is more to football than Real Madrid and Man Utd ;) ). Secondly..just calling me clown withouth backing it up doesnt really help the case. If I`m a clown to football, then whats him? No offense to you btw...

DutchLeafsfan

06-23-2004, 06:22 AM

BTW, to get this topic back on track (we still have the GDT for these discussions ;) ), I would like to nominate another player for possible future superstar status; Maxwell Scherrer Cabelino Andrade, or simply Maxwell, from Ajax. He has developed very well during the last 3 seasons and was arguably Ajax' best player during this season. Should he be able to sustain this rate of development I think he will be Roberto Carlos' successor...

Belgian Fan

06-23-2004, 06:24 AM

And without a nomination for the best 18 year old defender in Europe at the moment this thread wouldn't be complete:

Vincent Kompany of Anderlecht and Belgium!

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 06:25 AM

Thomas Buffel !

DutchLeafsfan

06-23-2004, 06:28 AM

And without a nomination for the best 18 year old defender in Europe at the moment this thread wouldn't be complete:

Vincent Kompany of Anderlecht and Belgium!

He was already on Predatore's list ;)

Ajacied

06-23-2004, 06:32 AM

de Mul in 2006.. :bow:

"Best player to come out of the Ajax system since Marco van Basten".. - Johan Cruijff..

no one important

06-23-2004, 07:05 AM

Pjotr Trochowski will be awesome, the only German prospect that excites me, why does he have to play for Bayern München though????? :shakehead

Belgian Fan

06-23-2004, 07:07 AM

de Mul in 2006.. :bow:

"Best player to come out of the Ajax system since Marco van Basten".. - Johan Cruijff..

You're talking about Tom de Mul right?

Is he really that good? I've never heard him being hyped up here in Belgium. And he isn't really an Ajax product as he played at Germinal Beerschot until he was 15 or so

Ajacied

06-23-2004, 07:23 AM

You're talking about Tom de Mul right?

Is he really that good? I've never heard him being hyped up here in Belgium. And he isn't really an Ajax product as he played at Germinal Beerschot until he was 15 or so

Apparantly he made quite the progression.. He's only 17 or 18 orso, but already providing a huge impact. Should be ready just in time when we sell Zlatan for a nice amount or when Sonck leaves..

But it's Cruijff though, everyone strongly disagreed with his comments regarding de Mul. Van Basten himself said Rafael was Ajax' best product since himself, with Sneijder being a close 2nd.. We'll see..

rangers

06-23-2004, 09:01 AM

You speak to people with such a condescending manner.

Why would you simply assume I'm a Real Madrid or Manchester United fan? I am a Madrid fan, yes, but I've been to Europe six different occasions and am a die-hard FC Porto fan as well. I have satellite as well and watch every Superliga and La Liga game I can. I don't watch the Premiership because I'm not a fan of the style of play, and Serie A is too boring for me.

You're a clown because you have a ridiculously biased perspective and an obvious dislike towards Luis Figo. You can badmouth his attitude or his lack of work ethic all you want, but to say you could find 100 soccer players better than him is an absolute joke. He takes defenders on himself all the time, creates offense from ANYWHERE on the field, and he was just as deadly on the left flank when Miss Beckham had to be accomodated for on the right side.

All I've seen you do is back up your arguments by claiming you live in Europe so that must mean you know more.

You've discriminated against North Americans for no apparent reason, even though none of us do the same in regards to hockey discussion. Get off your high horse, you don't know jack.

I don't think you know a damn thing more than anybody else here, and judging by the fact you think there are 100 players better than Figo; you likely have no clue what you're talking about in general.

Hey...you started everything by calling me clown. Just the fact that you are unable do see Figo`s great decline over the recent years tell me enough. Figo is no where near the top 50 players in the world, but he`s got a good name...because he used to be good. He might still be talented, but he isn`t someone I would want on my team.

Because I`m a European and don`t get to see as much hockey as I`d like, I take my precautions and don`t go around making statements like this. And if I do and people disagree I don`t call them clowns. Thats disrespectful IMO.

Since you don`t watch Premier League (where the best football is played) nor Serie A (where many of the best players are) I don`t think you should assume anything. Figo`s date has expired. Time to move on...

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 09:39 AM

You've discriminated against North Americans for no apparent reason, even though none of us do the same in regards to hockey discussion.

Huh, why would there be a reason for Americans to discriminate Europeans regarding hockey discussion ?? The NHL is filled with Europeans and hockey is enourmous popular in particular European countries.

For the rest, bad boy rangers, bad boy !

Evilo

06-23-2004, 09:43 AM

First of all, I don't understand why they should roll over their opponents. Denmark, Sweden, Czech Republic have played great football. If you think France has played average (which I can't deny btw :snide: ), you should leave the Dutch out of it.
I don't see where you're going sorry.
I simply noted that with the individual talents they have, if France and Holland played with as great a chemistry as Czech Republic, they'd both roll over their opponents.
I don't see what's arguable here :dunno:
And I don't exactly see where you disagree... :dunno:

Frolov 6'3

06-23-2004, 10:16 AM

I don't see where you're going sorry.
I simply noted that with the individual talents they have, if France and Holland played with as great a chemistry as Czech Republic, they'd both roll over their opponents.
I don't see what's arguable here :dunno:
And I don't exactly see where you disagree... :dunno:

No Evilo..if you think that France and Holland would roll over teams like The Czech Republic -with players like Rosicky, Poborsky, Nedved and some other talented young guys- while playing with the same chemistry as them, then there's indeed not much room for discussion. You're right.

You seem to forget they have great players..

Ar-too

06-23-2004, 10:34 AM

A humble American pokes his head out of the ground to ask a question:

Would anyone include an American player among their top 50 players?

Top 100?

Roughneck

06-23-2004, 10:38 AM

A humble American pokes his head out of the ground to ask a question:

Would anyone include an American player among their top 50 players?

Top 100?

Not yet. Perhaps Tim Howard as a goalie (Man Utd). But Freddy Adu is only 14...or 23, or whatever.

big_steve

06-23-2004, 11:55 AM

The Rage

06-23-2004, 12:15 PM

Huh, why would there be a reason for Americans to discriminate Europeans regarding hockey discussion ?? The NHL is filled with Europeans and hockey is enourmous popular in particular European countries.

That is true, but I want to make it clear that soccer/football is very popular on this side pf the pond as well. In fact, soocer is the most popular partcipation sport in Canada, ahead of even hockey (how many of you Europeans would be surprised to hear that?). Myself, I've played soccer all my life, but I don't even know how to skate. As far as only seeing Real and Man U on television, that isn't true either. We get most of the premeirship games, many french games on the french channel, and many italian and spanish games on the spanish channel. If you have digital cable you get even more.

Belgian Fan

06-23-2004, 12:26 PM

A humble American pokes his head out of the ground to ask a question:

Would anyone include an American player among their top 50 players?

Top 100?

I don't think any American player is individually among the top 50 players in the world at present. Tim Howard had a very impressive season at Man Utd though and if he continues that form (I doubted him at first but he played very sell) he will end up being one of the better goalies on world level.
Personally I like Landon Donovan as well, he's got a load of talent but his time for really developing into a great player is running out rather rapidly.

You probably have heard of Freddy Adu and even though I've never seen him play personally I think he certainly has the talent to become a top player too. His development is being followed closely here in Europe as well.

But you see, that brings us back to my earlier post in this thread, the US proved at the WC in Korea and Japan that team work and tactics are equally important than individual talent by achieveing those good results.
Furthermore, as the sport continues to grow in the huge market the US is, some more good players are bound to get through the systems.

Ar-too

06-23-2004, 02:39 PM

Furthermore, as the sport continues to grow in the huge market the US is, some more good players are bound to get through the systems.

The problem is that the best athletes we have to offer in the states can make tons more money playing any of the 4 major sports over here compared to MLS. If they were willing to go over to Europe they'd get paid, but that's probably unlikely.

I think it'd be fun to see Shaq lining up in the box on a corner kick...
:joker:

Evilo

06-23-2004, 03:10 PM

No Evilo..if you think that France and Holland would roll over teams like The Czech Republic -with players like Rosicky, Poborsky, Nedved and some other talented young guys- while playing with the same chemistry as them, then there's indeed not much room for discussion. You're right.

You seem to forget they have great players..
Oh I don't forget they have. But their main strengh is chemsitry and a great coach.

rangers

06-23-2004, 03:56 PM

Oh, ok... I get it now.

You can tell me to stop making "assumptions" since I'm North American(more discrimination), yet you can sit there and claim the Premiership is where the best football is played.

That's your own opinion.

Many, many people will not agree with it... it's not a fact.

I find it funny how you can make statements as fact, yet others can't? How exactly does that work?

I just question how you can make a statement like that when you`re not even watching the Premiership and Serie A games... And please. Get some thicker skin. I don`t discriminate north americans... At least thats not what I mean too do.

Ajacied

06-23-2004, 03:58 PM

Oh, ok... I get it now.

You can tell me to stop making "assumptions" since I'm North American(more discrimination), yet you can sit there and claim the Premiership is where the best football is played.

That's your own opinion.

Many, many people will not agree with it... it's not a fact.

I find it funny how you can make statements as fact, yet others can't? How exactly does that work?

I certainly agree with him how the Premiership is the most competitive competiton in the world. More would agree than disagree I think..