EC Day #8: Latvia v Germany / Holland v Czech Republic (GDT)

Day 8, the way it looks now it could happen that two of the pre-tournament favorites Spain/Portugal/Italy might not even make it out of the first round!! And there is still more to come!

It's that group again today, group D

Group D Standings (http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/football/europeanchampionship/standing/groupstage/groupd/full_standing.html)

Latvia v Germany

GROUP D
Venue: Bessa stadium, Porto
Date/time: Sat, 19 June, 1800 CET
Referee: Michael Riley (England)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2004/3787541.stm

Holland v Czech Rep

GROUP D
Venue: Aveiro Municipal, Aveiro
Date/time: Sat, 19 June, 2045 CET
Referee: Manuel Enrique Gonzalez (Spain)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2004/3787537.stm

********** Predictions ***********

12 Points yesterday (15 if Sand would've scored instead of hitting the bar :mad: )
For a total of 36 points


Portugal v Greece: 2-0 (Figo)
Spain v Russia: 2-1 (Raul Gonzalez Blanco)
Switzerland v Croatia: 2-1 (Frei)
France v England: 1-1 (Owen)
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Czech Republic v Latvia: 3-0 (Baros)
Germany v Holland: 1-2 (Ruud)
Greece v Spain: 0-2 (F Torres)
Russia v Portugal: 1-3 (Pauleta)
England v Switzerland 2-0 (Gerrard)
Croatia v France 1-3 (Trézéguet)
Bulgaria v Denmark 0-1 (Sand)
Italy v Sweden 1-1 (Ibrahimovic)

Today:
Latvia - Germany 0-2 (Ballack)
Holland - Czech Rep 1-2 (Nedved)

Latvia - Germany 0-3 (Ballack)
Holland - Czech Rep 1-1 (Ruuuuuuuuuuuud)

45 for me so far..

Latvia 0 - 2 Germany (Kuranyi)
Holland 0- 1 Czech Republic (Koller)

Denmark - Italy: 1-2 (Totti)
Sweden - Bulgaria: 1-0 (Larsson)
Czech Republic - Latvia: 3-0 (Rosicky)
Germany - Netherlands: 1-2 (Ballack)
Greece - Spain: 0-2 (Raúl)
Russia - Portugal: 1-2 (Pauleta)
England - Switzerland: 1-1 (Frei)
Croatia-France: 0-2 (Henry)
Bulgaria - Denmark: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Italy - Sweden: 2-1 (Cassano)[/size]
Damn, still no luck: 21 points :(

My next try:
Latvia - Germany: 0-3 (Kuranyi)
Holland - Czech Rep.: 1-2 (Koller)

Day 1
Portugal 2:1 Greece (Pauleta)
Spain 3:1 Russia (Raul)

Day 2
Swiss - Croatia 2-1 (Hakan Yakin)
France - England 3-1 (Henry)

Day 3:
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 2-1 (Larsson)

Day 4
Czech Republic 3 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)
Germany 3 : 1 Holland (M. Ballack)

Day 5
Greece 0 : 2 Spain (Raul)
Russia 0 : 2 Portugal (Pauleta)

Day 6
England 3 : 1 Switzerland (Owen)
Croatia 0 : 2 France (Henry)

Day 7
Bulgaria v Denmark 2-1 (Berbatov)
Italy v Sweden 1-2 (Larsson)

27 points

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Latvia 0 - 2 Germany (Ballack)
Holland 2- 1 Czech Republic (RVN)

Modano = Dud
you are betting against your team. If the results end up how you predicted the Dutch will most properly out. :joker:

Day 1
Portugal 2 : 1 Greece (C. Ronaldo)
Spain 2 : 0 Russia (F. Morientes)
Day 2
France 2 : 1 England (T. Henry)
Switzerland 1 : 0 Croatia (A. Frei)
Day 3
Denmark 1 : 2 Italy (A. Del Piero)
Sweden 2 : 1 Bulgaria (H. Larsson)
Day 4
Czech Republic 2 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)
Germany 2 : 2 Holland (R. van Nistelrooy)
Day 5
Greece 1 : 2 Spain (F. Morientes)
Russia 1 : 2 Portugal (Pauleta)
Day 6
England 2 : 1 Switzerland (Owen)
Croatia 0 : 2 France (Henry)
Day 7
Bulgaria 2 : 1 Denmark (D. Berbatov)
Italy 2 : 2 Sweden (H. Larsson)
Horrible Day 7 for me. Only 3 points.
45 points so far.

Day 8
Latvia 0 : 2 Germany (K. Kuranyi)
Holland 2 : 2 Czech Republic (R. van Nistelrooy)

9 points for me yesterday. That makes 48 points total and a very thin lead.

My predictions :
Germany 2-0 Latvia (Kuranyi)
Holland 1-1 Czech Republic (Baros)

=====================================
Spain 2 - 0 Russia (Raul) - 3
Portugal 3 - 1 Greece (Nuno Gomes) - 0
=====================================
France 1 - 1 England (Scholes) - 0
Switzerland 0 - 1 Croatia (Pršo) - 0
=====================================
Denmark 1 - 2 Italy (Jon-Dahl) - 0
Sweden 1 - 1 Bulgaria (Larsson) - 3
=====================================
Czech Republic 2 - 0 Latvia (Nedved) - 3
Germany 1 - 2 Netherlands (Van Nistelrooy) - 3
=====================================
Greece 0 - 1 Spain (Raul) - 0
Russia 1 - 1 Portugal (Pauleta) - 0
=====================================
England 1 - 0 Switzerland (Owen) - 3
Croatia 2 - 1 France (Henry) - 0
=====================================
Sweden-Italy 1 - 1 (Cassano) - 9
Denmark- Bulgaria 2 - 1 (Tomasson) - 6
=====================================
Germany 2 - 0 Latvia (Ballack)
The Netherlands 1 - 2 Czech Republic (Baros)

To say it in flemish: d'Ollanders doen hun broek vol van de schrik!!! Z'emmen peurre!! :lol


I predicted a dutch loss too, but I had to think long and hard before doing that.

To say it in flemish: d'Ollanders doen hun broek vol van de schrik!!! Z'emmen peurre!! :lol

Trust me, the Czechs isn't what scares the Dutch, frankly, I believe that we don't fear any team, it's our own inability to create chances or play up to our potential that freaks us out.

Trust me, the Czechs isn't what scares the Dutch, frankly, I believe that we don't fear any team, it's our own inability to create chances or play up to our potential that freaks us out.

Another reason is Dick Advocaat.. what an awful coach..

DAY 1: 3 points
DAY 2: 6 points
DAY 3: 3 points
DAY 4: 6 points
DAY 5: 6 points
DAY 6: 6 points
DAY 7: 6 points
----------------------
TOTAL: 36 points

Germany 2 - 0 Latvia (Kuranyi)
Holland 2 - 1 Czech Republic (van Nistelrooy)

It's hard to guess the scorer for the first game because Germany has so poor strikers that anyone (even Kahn) could be the scorer and Latvia propably won't score against Germany's defence.

My prediction:

Latvia v Germany: 2-1 Germany

Holland v Czech Republic: 3-0 Czech Republic

I am on 22 points now.

Today
Germany-Latvia: 2-0 (Ballack)
Holland-Czech Republic: 1-2 (Koller)

Another reason is Dick Advocaat.. what an awful coach..
Agree, i've never liked him.

33 points for me.

Although the Latvia - Germany game has already begun (10 minutes in) I predict it will end 0-2 (Kuraniy), whether it counts or not.

Holland-Czech Republic: 2-2 (Ruuuuud)

Germany has been pretty disappointing so far. Verpakowskis running past ca. 5 Germans has been spectacular, but unfortunately he could not finish it.

That should have been a penalty for Latvia.

That should have been a penalty for Latvia.

Which?

:lol This is such a joke! European football at its best...

Oh Boy, Klose would've scored that with his eyes closed two years ago, and now he misses the chance.

The Germans created the chances but wasted them. I don't see a last second goal coming now...

Which?
When Verpakovskis was torn down by Baumann (I guess it was him).

My comment about that game: YAWN

boring game...

Nobody even scored a single point with predicting that game :eek:

The next game has been a dandy. Only 25 minutes in and its already 2-1.

Bouma in the 4th, Ruud in the 19th, and Koller in the 23rd.

Good game :thumbu:

The Czech clearly miss Rene Bolf.

When Verpakovskis was torn down by Baumann (I guess it was him).


yup, but it should have been a red card for a latvian players just seconds before it, so it doesn't really matter.

and latvia is 100% anti-soccer, but so are most germans too.

bobic is by far the worst player in this tournament. kuranyi is a whiner and *****. klose is too stupid to score.

and verpakovskis is a diver. i don't understand the hype around him.

only lahm played good.

What a Joke having Colina as the 4th official. Every player on the pitch I'm sure would rather have Colina as the actual referee :)

2-2 and Holland is now down to 10 men....

what a terrific match!
Nedved is an excellent player but I hate his dives grrr. Heitinga shouldn't have gotten a second yellow there..

Can't believe they substituted Robben...

Czech scores to make it 3-2. Advocatt and Trappolini are setting new records in stupidity...

Bah! Minutes away from correctly predicting a 2-2 tie with Ruud scoring...

Heitinga probably shouldn't have gotten that second yellow... :banghead:

Congratulations Holland. You pulled a "Finland"! :mad: Now you know how we felt after the 2001 World Championship final. :banghead:

Bah! Minutes away from correctly predicting a 2-2 tie with Ruud scoring...



Likewise. :banghead:

Dick heeft de boter gevreten!!!!

What a terrible mistake substituting Robben while Van Der Meyden was being useless... Dick deserves all the bashing he'll get from that substitution.

I think it was the best game of the Tournament, for a neutral observer, loads of chances, some twists and turns and an unlikely finish. Who would have thought the Dutch would let that 2-0 slip away after going 2-0 in front and dominating? Great performance by the Czechs, especially Pavel Nedved and Milan Baros IMO.

If the Czechs and the Germans can reach an agreement, Oranje will be the victim and crash out in the first round now...

BTW, I thought Van Der Sar had a decent game, despite giving up three goals, he had a few important saves down the stretch.

what a terrific match!
Nedved is an excellent player but I hate his dives grrr. Heitinga shouldn't have gotten a second yellow there..

Can't believe they substituted Robben...
That's not typical for Nedved. Don't know what he was thinking. But about the yellow card: if the ref whistles a foul, he's got to show the yellow card in such a situation. Nedved could have broken through. So it's not about heavy foul or light foul, but about foul or not foul. It looks like it was no foul though.

Fully agree on the Robben comment. He was easily the best player on the pitch in the 1st 60 min.

All in all, a tie would have been just. I just hope that Nedved (who actually played a great game otherwise) makes up for that incident and makes sure that the Czech Rep. does not lose against Germany.

Awesome game!

That Heitinga's red card was a joke! I thought Nedved was a great player, but that is not what great players do! Unfortunately that might mean that the Dutch are out of Euro2004; Nedved dives--> the Czechs score the 3rd goal --> the Czechs are through and don't even try to beat Germany --> Holland is out!

Robben, Davids, Seedorf, Heitinga and van der Sar were great. Cocu's pass on the first goal was almost just as bad as Gerrard's.

I just hope that the Czechs will give their best shot against Germany, but I'm afraid they won't. I wouldn't be very surprised if Nedved, Rocinsky, Koller and Poborsky were on the bench against Germany. Damn, I hate that Nedved. He has the skills to play well, but why does ruin his reputation by diving like that? I could never respect a player who does things like that. Shame on you Pavel, shame on you! :mad:

Btw., can anyone tell me how exactly the passive offside rule works? Shouldn't Ruud's goal have been disallowed because he was not passive anymore?

That Heitinga's red card was a joke! I thought Nedved was a great player, but that is not what great players do! Unfortunately that might mean that the Dutch are out of Euro2004; Nedved dives--> the Czechs score the 3rd goal --> the Czechs are through and don't even try to beat Germany --> Holland is out!

Robben, Davids, Seedorf, Heitinga and van der Sar were great. Cocu's pass on the first goal was almost just as bad as Gerrard's.

I just hope that the Czechs will give their best shot against Germany, but I'm afraid they won't. I wouldn't be very surprised if Nedved, Rocinsky, Koller and Poborsky were on the bench against Germany. Damn, I hate that Nedved. He has the skills to play well, but why does ruin his reputation by diving like that? I could never respect a player who does things like that. Shame on you Pavel, shame on you! :mad:
Let's not get overboard here. While I'm disappointed by that too, there have been many, many dives in that tournament so far. Also by Dutch players in that game. This one just turned out to be costly, but he probably did not expect/seek that red card. Plus one has to mention that he was constantly fouled during that game. He had a lot of dirty play headed towards him, it's not like the others were angels.

Btw., can anyone tell me how exactly the passive offside rule works? Shouldn't Ruud's goal have been disallowed because he was not passive anymore?
It should have been disallowed.
There's passive offisde when you are not active in the play UNTIL IT ENDS.
Ruud was on "passive offside mode" when Robben got the ball, so until there no offside. But since Ruud turned around and actually scored the goal, it should have been disallowed, since he had 10 meters on the closest defender when the action began.

Let's not get overboard here. While I'm disappointed by that too, there have been many, many dives in that tournament so far. Also by Dutch players in that game. This one just turned out to be costly, but he probably did not expect/seek that red card. Plus one has to mention that he was constantly fouled during that game. He had a lot of dirty play headed towards him, it's not like the others were angels.

Before I go any further I must admit that I'm VERY VERY disappointed, so I might write a bit diffrently tommorow. Forgive me that.

On the second half Holland had two exactly the same kind of situations, except in those there really were fouls (on van der Meyde and van Nistelrooy). And what did the ref do? Nothing. He just ignored those fouls and then Nedved takes a dive and he gives Heitinga his second yellow card. That is pretty hard to handle right now.

I'm not a big fan of Zinedine Zidane's, but there is definitely one thing that makes him greater player than Pavel Nedved - you never see Zidane diving. I have always hated players who dive, but this time this diving was a bit too fateful to the Dutch team.

On the second half Holland had two exactly the same kind of situations, except in those there really were fouls (on van der Meyde and van Nistelrooy). And what did the ref do? Nothing. He just ignored those fouls and then Nedved takes a dive and he gives Heitinga his second yellow card. That is pretty hard to handle right now.
Ruud only has to blame himself for not getting any call, because he was committing fouls all the time. And he did not go to the ref and tell him that he's been offside on the goal either (I assume that Evilo is right here).

It should have been disallowed.
There's passive offisde when you are not active in the play UNTIL IT ENDS.
Ruud was on "passive offside mode" when Robben got the ball, so until there no offside. But since Ruud turned around and actually scored the goal, it should have been disallowed, since he had 10 meters on the closest defender when the action began.
Thanks. I heard comments that Robben's pass actually made it a new play, that's why I was unsure. But this would actually be a pretty stupid rule, if you could break this with one pass.

The referees started the tournament so well and now they are just a joke. :banghead:

What a game between Holland and the Czech republic. By far the most entertaining game of the tournament. :handclap: :handclap:

I do often disagree with substitutions of Voller, but what Advocat is doing is just a joke. How on earth can you sub your best player, Robben himself did not understand. :shakehead

At leats we German have it in our own hands. The Czechs will be easier to play than Latvia for us.

All the Czech players based in Germany playing well against us should be benched by their German club until their contract is run out. :joker:

At leats we German have it in our own hands. The Czechs will be easier to play than Latvia for us.

Especially if they don't use their best players. I'm afraid that the last match will be pretty easy for the Germans. :shakehead

Thanks. I heard comments that Robben's pass actually made it a new play, that's why I was unsure. But this would actually be a pretty stupid rule, if you could break this with one pass.

But thats exactly what it was. It was a new play, so no offside. And yes, it is maybe the most stupid rule ever... :shakehead

From a german POV, I liked the game a lot. :D That was fun to watch, and the Czechs have won it. Nice! Very nice!

Dick should get stoned back in Holland for destroying this game just on his own. Substitute the useless Van der Meyden with a nice counter-attacker like Makaay and you win this one rather easily.

And for the diving of Nedved... Everyone dives (ok, maybe with the exeption of Zidane ;) ). I hate it, but I think we all have to live with it. At least as long as the referees whistle these dives...

Especially if they don't use their best players. I'm afraid that the last match will be pretty easy for the Germans. :shakehead

Don't be too sure. I think we can expect nearly everything from the Germans. Everything between a 10:0 and a 0:10 is possible. :eek:

Marvelous game. Breathtaking stuff. Heartbreaking for Holland.
I don't think Nedved is a guy who generally dives but I think he was on the way of being outpaced on the play so he throws himself down for a free kick. Because it is a 30 meters run, if the referee whistles for Nedved, he has to give a yellow.
That is unfortunate that it is Heitinga. His first yellow was a stupid challenge. His second one is definitly unlucky.
Advocaat substitutions created more problems than solving any.
Heinz is a great player for the Czech, second game in a row that he comes in as a sub and makes things happen.
To conclude: Latvia might just be a win away from qualification!

Don't be too sure. I think we can expect nearly everything from the Germans. Everything between a 10:0 and a 0:10 is possible. :eek:

I expect the Czech to rest many players for the last game. They are sure to finish first, why would they risk injuries or yellow cards?
Now they may still be a very good team with a lot of substitutes in. :dunno:

I expect the Czech to rest many players for the last game. They are sure to finish first, why would they risk injuries or yellow cards?
Now they may still be a very good team with a lot of substitutes in. :dunno:

The still will be a better team than say... Latvia today. Or Hungary a few weeks ago. Which Germany could not beat.
I don't expect Germany to lose, but I think it is anything but sure that they will win this one. But they have it in their own hands, though. To say it with Kahn's words: The need some balls on wednesday. :)

The still will be a better team than say... Latvia today. Or Hungary a few weeks ago. Which Germany could not beat.

Yes, but the difference is that the Czechs will attack instead of defending with nine men no matter what kind of line-up they'll have on Wednesday. Germany's games against Holland and Latvia showed that they play better when they're playing against attacking team. My opinnion is that Czech Repuplic and Holland are quite similar teams; they both have very skillful teams and they play offensively, and Germany played great against Holland. On Wednesday they'll play against team that plays like Holland, but isn't as skillful as Holland. The only thing that could turn out be problem for team Germany is scoring. Germany has now played two games and scored one goal, and what kind of goal? A lucky freekick that wasn't even ment for a shot. Germany's strikers have scored zero goals and that might be a problem in the quarter finals. They'll propably win the Czechs by one goal and my guess is that Oliver Kahn will score that goal when 92 minutes is played...

Yes, but the difference is that the Czechs will attack instead of defending with nine men no matter what kind of line-up they'll have on Wednesday. Germany's games against Holland and Latvia showed that they play better when they're playing against attacking team. My opinnion is that Czech Repuplic and Holland are quite similar teams; they both have very skillful teams and they play offensively, and Germany played great against Holland. On Wednesday they'll play against team that plays like Holland, but isn't as skillful as Holland. The only thing that could turn out be problem for team Germany is scoring. Germany has now played two games and scored one goal, and what kind of goal? A lucky freekick that wasn't even ment for a shot. Germany's strikers have scored zero goals and that might be a problem in the quarter finals. They'll propably win the Czechs by one goal and my guess is that Oliver Kahn will score that goal when 92 minutes is played...

Thats a very precise analysis. :handclap:
Germany is not that good to actually be the active part in the game, they have to be the reactive part. That might be an advantage for wednesday.
And yes, they have horrible strikers (actually, we have a very good one in Martin Max, but he was never been invited by the DfB and is a bit pissed now). And that might be a problem earlier than in the quarterfinals: It might be a problem on wednesday. If they actually score a goal, it indeed might be Oliver Kahn (with an untouched free-kick down from our own half ;)). Another chance is a corner (or a free-kick), with probably Ballack, Frings, Kuranyi, Friedrich or Klose the scorer. I don't see anyone else, who could score a goal... :dunno:

First thing to say: what a breathtaking game! :eek:
These last two evenings (HOL-CZE and ITA-SWE) we have had two very entertaining games (even if with many blatant errors).

Some thoughts:

-The first three goals came out of mistakes. The first one was the result of obscene defense by the Czechs (check out Poborsky positioning). The second one a big joke due to foolish refereeing rule/call. The third one provided by an unbelievable turnover (by Cocu i think, right?)

-Czech defense is REALLY weak! It was weak straight away from the start, even before the offensive substitutions. Also, Jiranek sucks; i can't believe they don't have anyone better than him(?) and it was surprising to see Grygera substituted and Jiranek playing 90'.

-There have been some serious referee's mistake. The last one (an important one, Hejtinga red card), is also the more understandable; in fact i don't know if the referee had a good position to let him see what really happened (Nedved's dive), but i wonder why taking out the yellow card (and so the red card) if he couldn't see so well to be sure and if he is making a call based on supposition?
Before there was a Robben's blatant foul deserving yellow card but Gonzales thought otherwise.. :confused:
oh, and before of course there was the joke of Holland's second goal.
On a minor note, i can't remember exactly, but somewhere in the last part of the game there was a clear foul against the Czechs that was not called and i'm not referring to that Van Nilsterooy counter attack (mentioned by Korhonen) where i think Rosicky played the ball well; a harsh referee could have called a foul there, but i think no-call was right and an eventual yellow card for Rosicky would have been a joke.

-with 2-2 Holland would have been almost qualified ( a win over Latvia is all what would have been necessary), with a loss they are virtually out (all it takes for Germany to qualify is to beat a no-more-caring Czech team...usual Germany's luck! :dunno: ); that's why i think Holland should have paid more attention to not allow another goal, trying to keep ball possession, than to try to win the game with only ten men.

-That Heinz is a good player!

-Nedved dives more frequently than most people seem to think, especially since becoming a Juventus player; i guess he is used to get the foul everytime he falls down.. :lol:
anyway he is not a typical diver, what he does usually is making a normal foul looking like a criminal attack to his body safety and faking serious injuries.

-Advocat did BAD substitution, he looked like an amateur taking lessons by Trapattoni..

-Czech defense is REALLY weak! It was weak straight away from the start, even before the offensive substitutions. Also, Jiranek sucks; i can't believe they don't have anyone better than him(?) and it was surprising to see Grygera substituted and Jiranek playing 90'.
Rene Bolf's absence really seems to have weakened their defense, as I already have stated earlier. They were usually pretty solid.
-Nedved dives more frequently than most people seem to think, especially since becoming a Juventus player; i guess he is used to get the foul everytime he falls down.. :lol:
anyway he is not a typical diver, what he does usually is making a normal foul looking like a criminal attack to his body safety and faking serious injuries.
Aren't you a bit biased against virtually all Juve players? ;)

-with 2-2 Holland would have been almost qualified ( a win over Latvia is all what would have been necessary), with a loss they are virtually out (all it takes for Germany to qualify is to beat a no-more-caring Czech team...usual Germany's luck! :dunno: ); that's why i think Holland should have paid more attention to not allow another goal, trying to keep ball possession, than to try to win the game with only ten men.

That's true, but it's not easy to defend with just ten men when playing against team like Czech Republic which has many great offensive players. And I believe that Advocaat tried to secure the tie by substituting Robben to Bosvelt and van der Meyde to Reiziger, but it didn't just pay off.

Here's some comments by Advocaat (from bbc.co.uk):

"Everyone is talking about my substitution (Robben) that didn't work out but no one is talking about all the chances that we missed."

"The substitution is my responsibility and now we have to beat Latvia and hope the Czechs do their duty."

"I substituted Robben because I wanted more grip on the midfield. Tomas Galasek had too much space."

"Even without Robben we created four or five good chances. At 2-1 we had lots of chances to make it three or 4-1."

Advocaat instead blamed Johnny Heitinga's red card in the 75th minute for the change in Holland's fortunes.

"It was a second yellow card and I felt undeserved," said Advocaat.

"It was very difficult after that. But we should have been well ahead by then."

Rene Bolf's absence really seems to have weakened their defense, as I already have stated earlier. They were usually pretty solid.
Could you tell me more about Bolf? Thanks! (I don't know him at all.)
Anyway, one missing man can't alone explain such a poor defense.
I can't see them as favourites after watching this game even if they showed a very good conditioning and are really dangerous offensively.


Aren't you a bit biased against virtually all Juve players? ;)
I don't know, but i don't think so.
I've praised Zambrotta before this Euro started, i've always said Trezeguet is a terrific finisher, i've been a fan of R.Baggio when in the past he played for Juve, i like Miccoli..
aside from reporting Nedved's habit to fake injuries and DelPiero's usual (moreover with national team) embarassing athletical condition, what make you think that way? :)

And I believe that Advocaat tried to secure the tie by substituting Robben to Bosvelt...
Well, substituting one of your best player on the field, in full confidence, is a good move towards a loss. Trap did something even worse yesterday with Cassano.
Anyway, i was referring more to the Dutch players' attitude. Even after remaining with ten men and facing elimination they went on trying for the goal for an unnecessary win with every ball they get instead of playing the ball around to limit dangerous situations. Entertaining attitude but not the smartest in those last minutes imo.

I'm watching the encore and I just saw Heitinga's second yellow card....and beware, I'm going against my usual officiating tune....that was f'ing horrible.

Next time a Dutch player trips over his own feet, I expect his nearest opponent to be shown a yellow card. :mad:

Yes I would say he "managed" that game very poorly...:D...there was no consistency in what he called a foul and what he didn't, and what he booked people for and what he didn't. Can't believe he didn't call a penalty in the first half when the Czech defender literally wrapped both arms around Van Nistelrooy and hauled him down...that was blatant. Still easily the best game in the tournament so far IMO...great goals, great saves (felt really bad for Van der Saar who was completely hung out to dry on the last one) and a couple of posts as well...unbelieveable. :amazed: It almost made up for the 90 minutes of total crap I watched before that! Bring Klinsmann out of retirement because Germany's strikers are pathetic! Even with two of them out there they couldn't do a damn thing! :shakehead

On van Nistelrooy's goal...my memory of the rules is a bit rusty (I used to officiate U-14/U-15 soccer) but I think it's no offside? He was in an offside position when the ball originally went out to Robben, but it wasn't called because he wasn't part of the play. When Robben passed it to him, he was no longer offside because Robben was ahead of him on the pitch. So the goal stands. That's my recollection anyways. I initially thought the third Czech goal was close to being offside as well (when the player touched it past Van der Saar to the guy who put it in the net) but again I think he was behind the player passing the ball, so no offside.

Can't wait for Spain-Portugal tomorrow. :eek:

i bet this has been mentioned before, but ruud should have won a penalty shot at around the 29th minute when he got grabbed around the waist and couldn't make the turn and shoot the ball. if either that, or david's shot which hit the post had gone in to make it 3-1, who knows if the czech's would have come back.

also, why isn't kluivert playing? i don't follow dutch soccer, so i don't know if he's hurt, or not nearly as effective as he was back in euro 2000. i would think that he could really help van nistelrooy up front.

Hey Van, how about those Dutch! :lol:

Hey Van, how about those Dutch! :lol:

Yeah, thank god the Germans showed it to them today :shakehead


Please remember what I told you earlier, if you're going to post here solely for baiting pruposes we are going to take actions: read the FAQ (rule 2f in particular) again, thanks

I don't want to say too much cause I am still pissed off, but two things..

1) The ref sucked. Whether penalties are like corners for the Dutch, Van the Man should've have gone a penalty but instead he kept getting the call against him throughout the entire match. Heitinga's 2nd yellow was freaking hilarious as well, Heitinga who again played quite solid at the time.

2) I told you about Robben, and he isn't even 100% yet. Amazing player, continues threat.

3) Jessica Simpson, I am sorry I offended you with my Dick Advocaat comparison. You are not worthy.. Paul Bosvelt? Not bringing in Overmars or Hooijdonk? Sure thing Dicky.. Go collect poststamps..

4) Seedorf I was impressed with..

I've gone through a lot but words can't express what has happened in the game between the Czechs and The Netherlands.

Dick....get rid of this guy as soon as possible. You won't win anything with him. One of the best players on the pitch was substituted. Immediately after the Czechs became more active as they got stronger as well, you knew the 2-2 was coming. Where were Overmars and Makaay, two players who are very suitable for the counterattack. This guy is a joke. Normally the players burn their own fingers and now is the coach a circus act, unbelievable.

The goal of Van Nistelrooy was off-side. That second yellow, ridiculous. They should ship this referee to Siberia. It's almost a miracle there were so many chances, nothing was allowed by this man, from both sides. He whistled for everything and those Czechs were lying on the ground as if it was a sport. Van Nistelrooy didn't get a penalty either, Ujfalusi scored a perfect ippon against him. What a game, how many chances have we seen, balls were hitting the posts and crossbars. What a shot on the crossbar by Nedved, with his right leg. The Netherlands are often responsible for excitement and nice football but we keep going home empty-handed, as always.

All I have to say, is why in the ******* did Advocaat take Robben off for Bosvelt, a 34 year-old injury replacement? It's equivalent to what Trappatoni did to his Italian team yesterday! :mad:

Not sure what you mean with a 34 year-old injury replacement because Bosvelt is rarely injured but I can't deny he's 34 though.

It wasn't so much that Bosvelt came in but more the fact that Robben was taken off.

BTW Like I've always said, Robben is our biggest talent.

I'm watching the encore and I just saw Heitinga's second yellow card....and beware, I'm going against my usual officiating tune....that was f'ing horrible.

Next time a Dutch player trips over his own feet, I expect his nearest opponent to be shown a yellow card. :mad:
Nice to see you can finally realize some referees' mistakes Van!
Has it something to do with the fact Holland was involved? :lol:
I hope you will be able to keep this new perspective alive in your mind in the future!

Dick....get rid of this guy as soon as possible. You won't win anything with him. One of the best players on the pitch was substituted. Immediately after the Czechs became more active as they got stronger as well, you knew the 2-2 was coming. Where were Overmars and Makaay, two players who are very suitable for the counterattack. This guy is a joke. Normally the players burn their own fingers and now is the coach a circus act, unbelievable.

The goal of Van Nistelrooy was off-side.
:handclap:

1) The ref sucked. Whether penalties are like corners for the Dutch, Van the Man should've have gone a penalty but instead he kept getting the call against him throughout the entire match. Heitinga's 2nd yellow was freaking hilarious as well, Heitinga who again played quite solid at the time.

2) I told you about Robben, and he isn't even 100% yet. Amazing player, continues threat.

3) Jessica Simpson, I am sorry I offended you with my Dick Advocaat comparison. You are not worthy.. Paul Bosvelt? Not bringing in Overmars or Hooijdonk? Sure thing Dicky.. Go collect poststamps..

4) Seedorf I was impressed with..
1) Partly agree. The yellow card was undeserved, yes. But as I already wrote, Van the Man was playing pretty dirty himself and committing a lot of fouls. Then it's only natural that he does not get the referee's benefit of the doubt.

2) 100% agree. He's amazing.

3) No comment. He will get his deserved beating in the Netherlands, no need for me to bash him too. ;)

4) Yep, he and Davids kept the midfield together. Good display by both of them.

I`m not going to comment on certain incidents in the game, but I`d just wanted to say a big Thank You to the Czech Republic and Holland for playing out an excellent game last night. About time we got to see a great one... :handclap:

A team that holds a player like Pavel Nedved, create tons of scoring chances and doesn`t care about the opposition creating chances---that is the real diamond of the competition. World football should take notice...

I`m not going to comment on certain incidents in the game, but I`d just wanted to say a big Thank You to the Czech Republic and Holland for playing out an excellent game last night. About time we got to see a great one... :handclap:

A team that holds a player like Pavel Nedved, create tons of scoring chances and doesn`t care about the opposition creating chances---that is the real diamond of the competition. World football should take notice...
:clap:

Hey Strizzi, i am waiting for your reply! :)

Hey Strizzi, i am waiting for your reply! :)
You mean Bolf? Sorry, forgot about that. I just know that he's always been the one leading the Czech defense, and holding it together. He's played in the Czech league so far, and only recently got recognition by getting transferred to Auxerre. He's been the one who (successfully) took care of Ruud, Kluivert et al. during the qualification, something that his colleagues did not really manage do do yesterday.

57 shots in yesterday's game.
AMAZING.

You mean Bolf? Sorry, forgot about that. I just know that he's always been the one leading the Czech defense, and holding it together. He's played in the Czech league so far, and only recently got recognition by getting transferred to Auxerre. He's been the one who (successfully) took care of Ruud, Kluivert et al. during the qualification, something that his colleagues did not really manage do do yesterday.
He didn't play last year in Auxerre.
Boumsong and Mexes were the two central Dmen.
Are you sure he plays there? I never noticed him being transfered to Bourgogne.

He didn't play last year in Auxerre.
Boumsong and Mexes were the two central Dmen.
Are you sure he plays there? I never noticed him being transfered to Bourgogne.
He will play there next season, as far as I heard at least. The transfer has just occurred, kinda a replacement for Boumsong.

EDIT: Google found this article for me: http://www.cnn.com/2004/SPORT/football/01/22/auxerre.bolf.reut/

You mean Bolf? Sorry, forgot about that. I just know that he's always been the one leading the Czech defense, and holding it together. He's played in the Czech league so far, and only recently got recognition by getting transferred to Auxerre. He's been the one who (successfully) took care of Ruud, Kluivert et al. during the qualification, something that his colleagues did not really manage do do yesterday.
Yes, i meant Bolf!...and maybe that insinuation about Juve's players.. ;)

Oh, OK, makes sense.
Boumsong and Mexes are gone, so Roux needs two great guys to make up for this loss.
Still if you add Kapo and Cisse's departures, maybe Tainio's, it spells trouble for Auxerre.

Still if you add Kapo and Cisse's departures, maybe Tainio's, it spells trouble for Auxerre.

Have you heard any rumours where Tainio might be heading? Finnish media hasn't mentioned any possible clubs. All I know is that Tainio wanted to change club after this season, but his injury made it almost impossible, but is it still possible for him to move?

Amazing game my ass, it was utterly frustrating as a Dutchy.. I rarely blame the coach or the referee and use it as an excuse, but it is very appropiate here.

When I walked through the city on my way home, it was deadsilent. Thousands of people, yet no one really talked much, no sound of beer drinking fans, no nothing except for a few F' Dick Advocaat chants here and there.. A very, very scary and ackward silence that was. But even today, I just came home from playing some soccer and a lot of people were removing their orange decorations from their houses, cars and whatnots. No "Hup Holland Hup".. Very sad day in Holland..

I'm devistated.

Same here, words can hardly describe it.

While the players obviously made some mistakes, I do not want to blame them for the outcome of the came, which was caused by two persons:

*I don't think I can properly voice my feelings of disgust for Dick Advocaat. The bad thing is one could see this coming far ahead during the game, as this was typically Advocaat style to take of an offensive player for a defensive inded player rather early. I have the feeling taking off Robben was because of personal reasons. Advocaat has the childish tendency to do the opposite of what the media (and the rest of the country) wants, which was previously already displayed by his refusal to select Rafael van der Vaart earlier in his tenure, when Rafael was completely deserving and had already made his debut. I think this was the latest in a long line of attempts to prove his point, which he would have rather gloatingly said after the game had we won. Instead, the move backfired horribly, and everybody knew when the substitution took place that this would happen. Substituting Robben is already completely stupid, bringing on an over the hill Paul Bosvelt who was a nonfactor instead was possibly even more stupid. (The move I would for instance have made was to bring on Wesley Sneijder instead of Andy vd Meyde, and pull Edgar Davids a bit further back to control the midfield and take care of Nedved, whom he obviously knows well). Advocaat is completely clueless, as has also been shown by his refusal to start Wesley Sneijder.

These are btw as you might have guessed general feelings here, rather than individual feelings from my part. To give you an idea, at the Dutch training this morning, Dutch fans in Portugal reportedly applauded the players and even gave Arjen Robben a standing ovation. Dick Advocaat on the contrary got an extremely negative reaction. Another indication is a poll by Radio 538 (popular Dutch radio station) which resulted in 98,9% of the callers wanting Advocaat to be fired right now.

The man is a worthless coach who doesn't have a clue about how to manage his team, and has an emtremely inflated and childish ego to boot.

*The referee was downright horrible. While I am not entirely sure about the Ruud goal, as I personally thought that he was passive during the Robben pass and behind the ball during the cross, the rest of the game was downright horrible, and terribly biased in the Czechs' favor. The foul on Van Nistelrooy was blatant and could hardly be missed. He refused to even whistle for a foul during several Czech tackles which were worthy of a booking, yet gave Johnny Heitinga a second yellow for a foul which was much much much less than those Czech (supposed non-) fouls. I btw do not blame Nedved that much for the dive. Unfortunately it is the reality of today's game, and he is hardly an exception. The ref should have known better though. The linesmen didn't help matters either, as they flagged for offside twice during extremely dangerous situations when replays showed that no offside should have been called. To summarise, this was worse robbery than the Italy-Korea game, and it made me wonder why we are playing a European Championship when UEFA decides to let incompetent idiots like this lead a game. It is not like this was his first terrible game either...

Finally, I don't think Oranje had a whole lot of luck. With a few more favorable bounces, the Czechs could easily have been down 2 or 3 goals at the break, and they would never have come back from that...

Don't forget that Robben deserved a yellow card at least too for his horrible tackle form behind

Some of you forget quickly ;)

Same here, words can hardly describe it.

While the players obviously made some mistakes, I do not want to blame them for the outcome of the came, which was caused by two persons:

*I don't think I can properly voice my feelings of disgust for Dick Advocaat. The bad thing is one could see this coming far ahead during the game, as this was typically Advocaat style to take of an offensive player for a defensive inded player rather early. I have the feeling taking off Robben was because of personal reasons. Advocaat has the childish tendency to do the opposite of what the media (and the rest of the country) wants, which was previously already displayed by his refusal to select Rafael van der Vaart earlier in his tenure, when Rafael was completely deserving and had already made his debut. I think this was the latest in a long line of attempts to prove his point, which he would have rather gloatingly said after the game had we won. Instead, the move backfired horribly, and everybody knew when the substitution took place that this would happen. Substituting Robben is already completely stupid, bringing on an over the hill Paul Bosvelt who was a nonfactor instead was possibly even more stupid. (The move I would for instance have made was to bring on Wesley Sneijder instead of Andy vd Meyde, and pull Edgar Davids a bit further back to control the midfield and take care of Nedved, whom he obviously knows well). Advocaat is completely clueless, as has also been shown by his refusal to start Wesley Sneijder.


Like I said earlier, to bring Paul Bosvelt wasn't the problem. I don't understand why we should blame him. Another thing I don't understand what Sneijder would have contributed. Both Sneijder and Seedorf excel in ball possesion, we didn't have any ballpossesion anymore. Both Sneijder and Seedorf don't excel in fight football, which was played in the 2nd half. Seedorf should have been taken off for Paul Bosvelt and Advocaat should have changed some positions inside the field instead of to substitute Arjen Robben.


EDIT: And Robben deserved a yellow card for his horrible tackle form behind !

The question I have on the officiating is WHY was Collina the 4th official, and not the primary official for this game? What type of sick joke is this, having the BEST official in the game in a useless role?

Understandable that the dutch contingent are unhappy with the game. However, refereeing aside (which went both ways) I think that this Czech team deserved the victory. When I look at the Czech team I can't help but admire the team spirit and character. When Jan Koller is sub'd he doesn't get in a mood he rallies and cheers on his troops. Then when Riezeger comes on for the dutch, Van Der Myde doesn't even come over and wish him well. You can bet that both players are disappointed, but its the same old story. When the backs are against the wall the team with the character comes through. The czechs have that in abundance.

As to Advocaat, well as a Celtic fan I've never liked the little general. Holland are at there best when they have a go at the opposition, they aren't that good when they let a team have a go at them. I'm sure these Jekyl and Hyde performances frustrate their supporters. But, the Czech team deserved this victory and I agree with the other neutral observers, game of the tourament so far (eclipsing the Italy Sweeden matcH). I hope Spain vs Portugal can raise the bar further.

The question I have on the officiating is WHY was Collina the 4th official, and not the primary official for this game? What type of sick joke is this, having the BEST official in the game in a useless role?
Refs don't have such a gruelling schedule as in Hockey. Collina is reffing the England Croatia game on Monday night.

I hope Holland and Czech Republic will make the next round..... PLEASE NOT Germany. I hate that kind of soccer, they're playing, it's horrible.

Is there any player (without Kahn, Friedrich and Frings) in our team who can PLAY soccer ??? :amazed:

When i'm looking at such a horrible game, i only see some guys who are happy, when they are able to pass the ball over 3m :help:

Is there any player (without Kahn, Friedrich and Frings) in our team who can PLAY soccer ??? :amazed:


Ballack has been ok so far I think. Not as good as WC 2002 but still solid. It's guys like Kuranyi who have done absolutely nothing IMO.

The question I have on the officiating is WHY was Collina the 4th official, and not the primary official for this game? What type of sick joke is this, having the BEST official in the game in a useless role?
1) I guess there is a limit on how many games per round a ref gets.

2) In his first appearance, Gonzalez was actually pretty good.

3) Don't forget either that this game was awfully hard to supervise. There was so much happening, and so many small fouls and tacklings while the game was going on in full speed. Collina would most probably not have gotten everything right either.

4) Just to say it again: The Dutch committed a lot of fouls in this game, and thus could not expect the benefit of the doubt. Nedved was constantly fouled, and Ruud (who all of you say has been disadvantaged) was pretty dirty at times too. Not to forget the Robben tackle BF mentioned either.

Note that I don't want to take anything away from the great offensive play the Dutch showed, I was disappointed that they did not get a tie too. Now I just hope that the Czech won't lose against Germany, for that Holland gets a chance to qualify! They deserve it for sure.

It's guys like Kuranyi who have done absolutely nothing IMO.

Klose.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
why is such a player in a national team ???

One last comment: How can one not be a fan of Brückner, who is not afraid to put 5-6 forward onto the pitch at times! His lineup was so offensive after a while that Rosicky had to play the part of the defensive midfielder. :eek:

Like I said earlier, to bring Paul Bosvelt wasn't the problem. I don't understand why we should blame him. Another thing I don't understand what Sneijder would have contributed. Both Sneijder and Seedorf excel in ball possesion, we didn't have any ballpossesion anymore. Both Sneijder and Seedorf don't excel in fight football, which was played in the 2nd half. Seedorf should have been taken off for Paul Bosvelt and Advocaat should have changed some positions inside the field instead of to substitute Arjen Robben.


EDIT: And Robben deserved a yellow card for his horrible tackle form behind !

While it is understandable to change the tactic to one which was somewhat less offensive, bringing on Bosvelt for Robben was basically inviting the Czechs to come and attack. The logical consequence is a goal at some point as the attacking team with players like Barros, Koller etc. is bound to get the proper bounce one time or another.

Bringing on Sneijder would as I said have allowed Davids to be pulled back a bit more to have a controlling role. This would reduce the offensive mindedness of the Dutch tactic somewhat by bringing on a midfielder for a winger, without sacrificing too much of the ability to counterattack due to having an excellent passer like Sneijder on the midfield together with an attack of Robben and van Nistelrooy.

One last comment: How can one not be a fan of Brückner, who is not afraid to put 5-6 forward onto the pitch at times! His lineup was so offensive after a while that Rosicky had to play the part of the defensive midfielder. :eek:

Yeah, Brückner deserves credits for his guts, as he has done this twice now, and has acted quickly as well, rather than to wait until half-time. It is the kind of confidence in players which was seen in 88 when Rinus Michels put all his trust in Marco van Basten despite being injured for an extended period of time before the tournament. Too bad that our current coach is the exact opposite of it...

The Robben tackle btw definitely deserved yellow and illustrates the lack of consistency even more...

As for the Czechs deserving to win, I disagree, as I think Oranje deserved at least a draw. Even more maddening however is that Holland was completely deserving of the 2-1 lead and could have been up by more until our bonehead coach decided to throw the game away.

As for the Czechs deserving to win, I disagree, as I think Oranje deserved at least a draw. Even more maddening however is that Holland was completely deserving of the 2-1 lead and could have been up by more until our bonehead coach decided to throw the game away.

I agree. Both had lots of scoring opportunities and the Czechs scored the winning goal when Holland played with ten men and I think we all agree how deserved that Heitinga's red card was.

I'm not saying that this result was a judicial murder or something like that, but it would had been fair if the game had ended 2-2. But life isn't fair and so isn't soccer either.

As for the Czechs deserving to win, I disagree, as I think Oranje deserved at least a draw. Even more maddening however is that Holland was completely deserving of the 2-1 lead and could have been up by more until our bonehead coach decided to throw the game away.
I my very first post after the game, I said that a tie would have been deserved:
All in all, a tie would have been just. I just hope that Nedved (who actually played a great game otherwise) makes up for that incident and makes sure that the Czech Rep. does not lose against Germany.

Belgian Fan: can't we guess the scores on tonight's matches?

Belgian Fan: can't we guess the scores on tonight's matches?
Yep, that would be good. I already have to do it now, won't be around afterwards:

So far:
Denmark - Italy: 1-2 (Totti)
Sweden - Bulgaria: 1-0 (Larsson)
Czech Republic - Latvia: 3-0 (Rosicky)
Germany - Netherlands: 1-2 (Ballack)
Greece - Spain: 0-2 (Raúl)
Russia - Portugal: 1-2 (Pauleta)
England - Switzerland: 1-1 (Frei)
Croatia-France: 0-2 (Henry)
Bulgaria - Denmark: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Italy - Sweden: 2-1 (Cassano)Latvia - Germany: 0-3 (Kuranyi)
Holland - Czech Rep.: 1-2 (Koller)
Makes 27 points.

Today:
Russia - Greece: 0-0 (Karagounis)
Spain - Portugal: 2-1 (F. Torres)

Yep, that would be good. I already have to do it now, won't be around afterwards:

So far:
Denmark - Italy: 1-2 (Totti)
Sweden - Bulgaria: 1-0 (Larsson)
Czech Republic - Latvia: 3-0 (Rosicky)
Germany - Netherlands: 1-2 (Ballack)
Greece - Spain: 0-2 (Raúl)
Russia - Portugal: 1-2 (Pauleta)
England - Switzerland: 1-1 (Frei)
Croatia-France: 0-2 (Henry)
Bulgaria - Denmark: 1-1 (Berbatov)
Italy - Sweden: 2-1 (Cassano)Latvia - Germany: 0-3 (Kuranyi)
Holland - Czech Rep.: 1-2 (Koller)
Makes 27 points.

Today:
Russia - Greece: 0-0 (Karagounis)
Spain - Portugal: 2-1 (F. Torres)

So there ARE games today? When?

DAY 1: 3 points
DAY 2: 6 points
DAY 3: 3 points
DAY 4: 6 points
DAY 5: 6 points
DAY 6: 6 points
DAY 7: 6 points
DAY 8: 3 points
----------------------
TOTAL: 39 points

Russia 0 - 2 Greece (Karagounis)
Spain 1 - 2 Portugal (C. Ronaldo)

So there ARE games today? When?

Both games will kick off one hour in 15 minutes.

Time changed...

Both games will kick off in 15 minutes.

WTF.. that sucks..

Russia 1 - 1 Greece (Aleinichev)
Spain 1 - 1 Portugal (Pauleta)

48 points for me..

Russia 1 - 1 Greece (Aleinichev)
Spain 1 - 1 Portugal (Pauleta)

Heh, honestly Frolov..

WTF.. that sucks..

Sorry, in 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Sorry I forgot to make a thread today, had a bit of studying to do, I'll make on right away so if you haven't posted the predictions here hang on for a sec and you can do it in the new thread

I hope Holland and Czech Republic will make the next round..... PLEASE NOT Germany. I hate that kind of soccer, they're playing, it's horrible.

Is there any player (without Kahn, Friedrich and Frings) in our team who can PLAY soccer ??? :amazed:

When i'm looking at such a horrible game, i only see some guys who are happy, when they are able to pass the ball over 3m :help:

Boy, I hate that.... Tell me, what should they do? "Sorry guys, we will not come to Euro 2004, cause we play a boring game".
Germany has always (more or less) played like that. They simply are not a team to celebrate football - they work football. Whats wrong with that when they can't do anything else???

Boy, I hate that.... Tell me, what should they do? "Sorry guys, we will not come to Euro 2004, cause we play a boring game".
Germany has always (more or less) played like that. They simply are not a team to celebrate football - they work football. Whats wrong with that when they can't do anything else???

nevertheless it's ok to say that you don't want them to advance because they're boring.

if you like celebration soccer, then you simply like it. i don't have a problem with hard-working teams as long as they don't come out of germany. :lol

Bring Klinsmann out of retirement because Germany's strikers are pathetic! Even with two of them out there they couldn't do a damn thing! :shakehead

Klinsmann, hm... You want more diving, eh? ;)

Kuranyi and Bobic don't make a good pair, they play a similar style. I would have played Kuranyi and Klose. They don't exactly set the world on fire, but give them three, for, five (or a little more) scoring-chances and one of the two might put a lucky shot in. :D

nevertheless it's ok to say that you don't want them to advance because they're boring.

if you like celebration soccer, then you simply like it. i don't have a problem with hard-working teams as long as they don't come out of germany. :lol

Yes, they might be boring, but they give their best. It's not that they could play any better. :eek:

I don't get the point. What's the difference between a hard working team from Germany and a hard working team from another country?

Kuranyi/Bobic and Podolski is the best mix in my eyes.....but pleaso no klose....this guy can't really play, he can only lie on the ground -_-

They simply are not a team to celebrate football - they work football. Whats wrong with that when they can't do anything else???
ahm, so you'll tell me they "worked" against Latvia ???

I've only seen helplessness...

Kuranyi/Bobic and Podolski is the best mix in my eyes.....but pleaso no klose....this guy can't really play, he can only lie on the ground -_-


ahm, so you'll tell me they "worked" against Latvia ???

I've only seen helplessness...

I forgot about Podolski! He should get a chance!
Please... No Bobic. This is coming from a Hertha fan. ;)

Yes, they worked. But as you could see, they simply are not smart enough (or don't have the skill) to shoot a goal against a team standing with 10 players deep.

Bosvelt is an injury replacement. He is only there because van Bommel is hurt. He should be the last option for substitution, especially in such a huge match, not the first.

"He should be the last option for substitution because he was an injury replacement."

Nice logic..

Van Bommel is a two-way midfielder who got injured, so defensive midfielder Bosvelt was a quite logical replacement. Dick could have called up Hasselbaink too, but he didn't need any more strikers. He wanted to play more defensive, so he brought Bosvelt and not the offensive player Sneijder. Makaay is better than Van Hooijdonk, but Van Hooijdonk played the final 15 minutes in the game against Germany. Why ? Because we needed Van Hooijdonk's skills and not Makaay's. You're too narrow-minded.

Have you heard any rumours where Tainio might be heading? Finnish media hasn't mentioned any possible clubs. All I know is that Tainio wanted to change club after this season, but his injury made it almost impossible, but is it still possible for him to move?
No, just heard there was a possibilty he might leave.
But nothing very serious so far.

I have never, ever said that referees in any sport do not make mistakes.
The problem is that if Holland is not involved you CAN'T (or don't want) REALIZE (or recognize) those mistakes when they occur.

Who's talking about strikers?

There was no reason to make a change in the first place, and if there was, it should have been Sneijder to continue the momentum the Dutch had.

By putting Bosvelt on for Robben, Advocaat took all the momentum away from his team and handed it to the Czechs on a silver platter.

The best defence is a continuous attack. Advocaat played Italian football, and just like it did for Italy, it cost the Dutch.

Hey, you don't have to tell me what he did wrong but Sneijder wouldn't have been the solution either.

Don't put words into my mouth, and don't tell me how I think...because frankly, you don't know.
I'm not doing it. I don't think someone else posts instead of you with your nickname...
I hope it's not necessary to re-post some of the past threads... :propeller

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/ek/11546691/Tsjechië_belooft_Oranje_hulp.html

I'll translate the most important part"

"We'll do whatever it takes to get you guys through to the quaterfinals" Were the words Ajacied Wesley Sneijder received from Ajax teammated Tomas Galasek by SMS on his cell-phone.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/ek/11546691/Tsjechië_belooft_Oranje_hulp.html

I'll translate the most important part"

"We'll do whatever it takes to get you guys through to the quaterfinals" Were the words Ajacied Wesley Sneijder received from Ajax teammated Tomas Galasek by SMS on his cell-phone.

THat's cool...but who's going to take out Advocaat though?

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/ek/11546691/Tsjechië_belooft_Oranje_hulp.html

I'll translate the most important part"

"We'll do whatever it takes to get you guys through to the quaterfinals" Were the words Ajacied Wesley Sneijder received from Ajax teammated Tomas Galasek by SMS on his cell-phone.

probably the same that koller/rosicky said to their teammates. :D

i don't think the czech will give 100%, but it will still be enough to beat german. :)

http://www.deslechtstewisselooit.nl/

http://www.advocaatuitoranje.tk/ ( http://www.keurnmeaiers.nl/advocaat/forum_viewtopic.php?9.1#1 )

I don't know whether I should :banghead: or :lol ..

Oooh the frustrations..

Oh man..that is so funny...yet so appropriate after Saturday's game.

Should they bring Rijkaard back?

Oh man..that is so funny...yet so appropriate after Saturday's game.

Should they bring Rijkaard back?

Screw the coach, we need this guy..

mms://213.159.10.249/funny/voetbal/bergkamp_ierland.asf

*I don't think I can properly voice my feelings of disgust for Dick Advocaat. The bad thing is one could see this coming far ahead during the game, as this was typically Advocaat style to take of an offensive player for a defensive inded player rather early. I have the feeling taking off Robben was because of personal reasons. Advocaat has the childish tendency to do the opposite of what the media (and the rest of the country) wants, which was previously already displayed by his refusal to select Rafael van der Vaart earlier in his tenure, when Rafael was completely deserving and had already made his debut. I think this was the latest in a long line of attempts to prove his point, which he would have rather gloatingly said after the game had we won. Instead, the move backfired horribly, and everybody knew when the substitution took place that this would happen. Substituting Robben is already completely stupid, bringing on an over the hill Paul Bosvelt who was a nonfactor instead was possibly even more stupid. (The move I would for instance have made was to bring on Wesley Sneijder instead of Andy vd Meyde, and pull Edgar Davids a bit further back to control the midfield and take care of Nedved, whom he obviously knows well). Advocaat is completely clueless, as has also been shown by his refusal to start Wesley Sneijder.

The man is a worthless coach who doesn't have a clue about how to manage his team, and has an emtremely inflated and childish ego to boot.


*The referee was downright horrible. While I am not entirely sure about the Ruud goal, as I personally thought that he was passive during the Robben pass and behind the ball during the cross, the rest of the game was downright horrible, and terribly biased in the Czechs' favor. The foul on Van Nistelrooy was blatant and could hardly be missed. He refused to even whistle for a foul during several Czech tackles which were worthy of a booking, yet gave Johnny Heitinga a second yellow for a foul which was much much much less than those Czech (supposed non-) fouls. I btw do not blame Nedved that much for the dive. Unfortunately it is the reality of today's game, and he is hardly an exception. The ref should have known better though. The linesmen didn't help matters either, as they flagged for offside twice during extremely dangerous situations when replays showed that no offside should have been called. To summarise, this was worse robbery than the Italy-Korea game, and it made me wonder why we are playing a European Championship when UEFA decides to let incompetent idiots like this lead a game. It is not like this was his first terrible game either...



DutchLeafsfan, i'm used to appreciate your posts about soccer, i've frequetly agreed with you ( silently or not) in the past, i agree one more time on Advocaat and i can understand your feelings after an unbelievable loss, really tough to get through..
BUT (or just more because it's you) you can't go that far with emotions to say something like that your bolded quote.

This what i previously said about the referee:
'-There have been some serious referee's mistake. The last one (an important one, Hejtinga red card), is also the more understandable; in fact i don't know if the referee had a good position to let him see what really happened (Nedved's dive), but i wonder why taking out the yellow card (and so the red card) if he couldn't see so well to be sure and if he is making a call based on supposition?
Before there was a Robben's blatant foul deserving yellow card but Gonzales thought otherwise..
oh, and before of course there was the joke of Holland's second goal. On a minor note, i can't remember exactly, but somewhere in the last part of the game there was a clear foul against the Czechs that was not called and i'm not referring to that Van Nilsterooy counter attack (mentioned by Korhonen) where i think Rosicky played the ball well; a harsh referee could have called a foul there, but i think no-call was right and an eventual yellow card for Rosicky would have been a joke.'

I can add that on Van Nilsterooy there was probably a penalty, even if i don't think that was 100% clear.

I think it was poor refereering, not biased refereeing. Decisive mistakes came against both teams.
The game Italy-Korea was maybe the most biased refereeing i've ever seen and probably you know it as well since you took it here as example.
I mean, you have gone beyond the facts with that comment.
It's just that, like Italy against Sweden, Holland missed an unbelievable amount of great chances to secure the win (or a draw, that would have been enough to advance for the Dutches) and the coach provided a big help to the opponents.

I'm not saying The Netherlands have lost because of the ref but he was definitely not in Dutch favour, that need to be said. The fact Robben didn't get a yellow card is not something dramatic, who cares ? The offside goal from RVN is a mistake from the lines-man. Ridiculous red card and we didn't get a clear penalty.

Ridiculous red card and we didn't get a clear penalty.

Well, 4 years ago, Collina gift wrapped your team a completly ludicrous penalty that allowed you guys to beat the Czechs. Maybe Karma had something to fo with it.

Well, 4 years ago, Collina gift wrapped your team a completly ludicrous penalty that allowed you guys to beat the Czechs. Maybe Karma had something to fo with it.
You've got a point here!

Well, 4 years ago, Collina gift wrapped your team a completly ludicrous penalty that allowed you guys to beat the Czechs. Maybe Karma had something to fo with it.

Yes and in 1969 Neil Armstrong landed on the moon.

-story-

One thing you must realise is that this was basically my first chance to vent, given that I had been between a whole bunch of others being as frustrated as I was the 24 hours before... ;)

I must say I was not entirely aware of this active/passive/new play rule being discussed here, since I figured Van Nistelrooy was just inactive when Davids passed to Robben, and behind the ball for the cross, meaning there was no offside. Didn't realise anything by the time I saw the goal either, since I do not recall any Czech player really protesting it.

While the ref made some mistakes towards the Czechs, the Robben foul being the msot notorious one, these in general had less outcome on the match than both the penalty (which IMO was indisputable) and the red card (about which everybody also pretty much agrees). In the end, I'd say all the refs mistakes combined were clearly in the Czechs' favour. Whether or not the guy was biased or just an incompetent fool, I am not sure in hindsight. I just hope no team will be victimised by another performance of this idiot, although given the UEFA's previous questionable decisions and the fact that Spain is out, I am not so sure whether this was his last game.

I still think Advocaat deserves the majority of the blame, but with a perfect ref (or this ref and a sane coach) I think we would have at least tied this game and quite possibly won (especially with a sane coach).

It looks more and more btw that Advocaat is completely alone with his reasoning. Several players, while not openly criticising him, indicated that they were unhappy about the move. Even assistant coach Willem van Hanegem, who handled the press conference in absence of Advocaat admitted there had been 'a dispute' about the change between him and Advocaat beforehand, and basically said that another (his) plan had been to take Vd Meyde off.

It was a great game. I didn`t cheer for any team. I like Czech team, because of great players like Nedved and Poborsky and i am a fan of Dutch soccer since Van Basten- Gullitt- Rijkaard era.
Gonzales is the worst referee there. Even his first game at the tournament was miserable.
Cyechs substituted Grygera because he was just miserable. Jiranek was also weak. Czechs started to play with 3 defensemen and Poborsky or Rosicky playing Right back. After the Robben substitution Czech commentator said something like this: "What a great change for us. Both Poborsky and Rosicky can now start to play offensively, because they don`t need to care about fantastic Robben."
I think they analysed it perfectly.

They did, substituting Robben removed the biggest Dutch thread and the most important link between the midfield and the strikers. It basically invited the Czechs to play towards the Dutch goal, get the proper bounce/combination sometime and equalise.

One thing you must realise is that this was basically my first chance to vent, given that I had been between a whole bunch of others being as frustrated as I was the 24 hours before...
ok,ok,i realize.. ;)


While the ref made some mistakes towards the Czechs, the Robben foul being the most notorious one, these in general had less outcome on the match than both the penalty (which IMO was indisputable) and the red card
Personally i think the not-given penalty is easily compensated by Ruud's goal.
So Holland can still rent about playing without a reason with ten men the last 15'.
But my point is that the Ruud's goal and the Robben missed yellow card (even if meaningless in the end) tell me the referee wasn't biased but poor; very different from what happened in Korea.

They did, substituting Robben removed the biggest Dutch thread and the most important link between the midfield and the strikers. It basically invited the Czechs to play towards the Dutch goal, get the proper bounce/combination sometime and equalise.
Exactly what happen to Italy when the IDIOT took out Cassano (leaving there two dead bodies,Vieri and DelPiero) against Sweden.

Exactly what happen to Italy when the IDIOT took out Cassano (leaving there two dead bodies,Vieri and DelPiero) against Sweden.

I really hope Trap and Advocaat share a similar fate after the Euro 2004 and are both replaced by coaches who do know how to substitute and let their teams play some attractive football. Trap has in general not done too well in that aspect either, and of Dick Advocaat the same can be said. Although compared to most teams Holland still tends to play offensively minded, the offensive flair which used to be the trademark of the Dutch game has for a significant part disappeared due to him adapting to the opponent, rather than letting the opponent adapt to 'us'.

And yeah, in hindsight I guess the ref was just extremely incompetent :p: