Barry Bonds: Boston is too racist for me

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/06/18/blasting_zone/

I think he also gets intentionally walked because nobody wants to pitch to a black hitter. I really feel for him. I can't even count all the cross burnings I witnessed when I lived in Boston.

I also didn't realize all the stuff in the world was built for me, but Barry cleared that up.

Sadly,he does make 1 or 2 points which are true.

Hey. What Barry says to the media shouldn't be a surprise anymore. He's always been a pretty controversial guy. While I don't agree with a lot of the stuff he says, as an American he's afforded the right to say something stupid. The same would be true if he were Canadian or Dominican or whatever. Actually. Let me just rephrase that whole thing. As a major league baseball player he's afforded the right to be a moron.

Good for Barry for speaking up against whatever he thinks is holding him back. Even if what he's saying is based purely on "word of mouth." I won't judge Barry by his stupid remarks and overall lacking ability to add anything positive to the game except breaking home run and walk records.

Hopefully, Barry learns that "word of mouth," is just another way of saying, "I'm dumb enough to believe what everybody tells me." Wait. I want to rephrase that too. It's really just another way of saying, "I'm a major league baseball player."

Oh, the beauty of it all. My oh my.

H
G.
H.
:lol:

A legend in his own mind, a great player, but he probably gets off to his image in the mirror.

this article reafirms my belief that Barry Bonds is a great athlete.
But Like C.Barkley...he has no business talking to the media...
Hes tarnishing all his various achievements by talking so much crap.


:shakehead

:lol:

Just stop laughing.
Ugly jokes like this start arguments.
I never should have said what I said.
Childish. That's what I am.
I'll learn someday.
Gotta stop this. It's already old.

Hes tarnishing all his various achievements by talking so much crap.


:shakehead
Ummm I have to disagree here. He's regarded as the best player ever, and people know this.

I guess you say dumb things occasionally when you're jacked up on steroids.

he isn't saying anything that most major sports publications have stated in the past. Some people believe the real curse of the red sox is they were one of the last teams to have an African American player. bonds is a jerk though. Boston today is not what it was 35 years ago. look at the patriots roster i bet there are more minorities athletes than white athletes. the red sox two biggest stars are minorities. what a shameful comment.

Ummm I have to disagree here. He's regarded as the best player ever, and people know this.
Wrong. Babe Ruth is easily better than Bonds. Putting aside differnces in historical context (bigger parks, no steroids, etc.) Bonds still can't reach Babe Ruth's standing simply because Ruth was a great pitcher, too.

Har Har about the steroid jokes....I doubt Bonds takes them and even if he does,Barry not taking steroids is 10x the hitter any of us are.He's a great player and wouldn't be mad if he was the career HR hitter.

he isn't saying anything that most major sports publications have stated in the past. Some people believe the real curse of the red sox is they were one of the last teams to have an African American player. bonds is a jerk though. Boston today is not what it was 35 years ago. look at the patriots roster i bet there are more minorities athletes than white athletes. the red sox two biggest stars are minorities. what a shameful comment.

Your right about the Sox, even fifteen years ago they had a predominantly white lineup. I think it's largely the fault of the Yawkeys, maybe I'm wrong. OTOH the Celtics were the first basketball franchise to regularly put more black players on the court than whites, and Bill Russell was the first black coach in any pro sport, though that's mostly a credit to Auerbach. The first black player in the NHL also played for the Bruins, right?
Boston's historical racist reputation when it comes to sports isn't entirely undeserved, Bill Russell called it the most racist city in America, but I think we've moved past it. 100 years ago the Irish were discriminated against, now we get St. Patty's day off from work. Things do change, Barry.

"I ain't never played baseball for fame. I just play to play. I ain't never liked fame. I don't need that [expletive]. I don't need fame. Fame is taking care of your bills, your kids, and your household and having respect, that's about all. That's famous to me."

Smart quote there Barry...obviously that BALCO doesn't bulk up the brain. He wants to talk about how bad the racism is in this country...someone needs to smack him in the head a few hundred times. I'll be the first in line. What a piece of garbage.

I doubt Bonds takes them and even if he does,Barry not taking steroids is 10x the hitter any of us are.

Good for him...he still deserves a bullet in the back of the head.

Ummm I have to disagree here. He's regarded as the best player ever, and people know this.
Ever?
better than Babe Ruth,Ted Williams,Hank Aaron,Cy Young,Lou Gehrig,Mickey Mantle?

like said before by others

...Ruth will hold baseball's eternal torch no matter how many HRs Bonds ends up with.



Now look at the Red Sox roster & tell me that this organization or city is a "racist haven"

maybe 20 years ago he might had a point...but hes not looking at boston as it is now....

Bonds by saying such things only shows that hes a bit ignorant. :shakehead

Good for him...he still deserves a bullet in the back of the head.

I agree. I for one am disgusted with the coverage of this man. He is a cretin. Racism is his crutch for everything and I'm sick of it. Next he'll say "They walk me cause I'm black."

He is a worthless piece of garbage, he deserves all of his home runs taken away, because they are tainted, and if he gets in the Hall over Pete Rose, I'll never watch another baseball game.

Good for him...he still deserves a bullet in the back of the head.



Gee,a man says something about your precious Babe Ruth and he deserves to be shot?


Sabresin05, have fun not watching baseball again because Bonds will be elected first chance available.And screw Pete Rose,talk about classless,he would bet that his garage door goes down faster then his neighbors... :lol

Gee,a man says something about your precious Babe Ruth and he deserves to be shot?




My precious Babe Ruth? Where did you come up with that jewel? I made no mention of him. He's a piece of doody in my book as well. I hate Barry Bonds for the man he is not for the records he breaks.

Its best to watch your assumptions bud.

Sabresin05, have fun not watching baseball again because Bonds will be elected first chance available.And screw Pete Rose,talk about classless,he would bet that his garage door goes down faster then his neighbors... :lol

I frankly don't care. If baseball can stand for steroid use, but not gambling, then fine. They refuse to re-test Barry Bonds' samples for steroids. That's a joke. Let's have this steroid debate 25 years after the fact like we do the Rose debate. What other excuse can you come up with for hitting more home runs yearly at an older age than steroids?

Babe Ruth will always be the quintessential home run hitter. Nobody will ever hold a candle to ruth unless they hit upwards of 100 home runs a year. That is the discrepancy between Ruth and the other hitters of his time. Ruth was hitting more home runs in a year than some teams were hitting the entire year. Parks were longer as well.


When Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 1927, he hit 14% of all home runs in his league that year. For a player to hit 14% of all home runs today, he would have to hit over 300 home runs in one season

Talk to me when Bonds hits 300 homeruns next year. If he does, i'll shut up.

In this age of steroid jacked up behemoths, Bonds is king. That's for certain. However, it's like changing a complete game shutout to holding a team scoreless for 3 innings. That's how unfair the records of today are to the records of yesterday.

Babe Ruth will always be the quintessential home run hitter. Nobody will ever hold a candle to ruth unless they hit upwards of 100 home runs a year. That is the discrepancy between Ruth and the other hitters of his time. Ruth was hitting more home runs in a year than some teams were hitting the entire year. Parks were longer as well.


When Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 1927, he hit 14% of all home runs in his league that year. For a player to hit 14% of all home runs today, he would have to hit over 300 home runs in one season

Talk to me when Bonds hits 300 homeruns next year. If he does, i'll shut up.

In this age of steroid jacked up behemoths, Bonds is king. That's for certain. However, it's like changing a complete game shutout to holding a team scoreless for 3 innings. That's how unfair the records of today are to the records of yesterday.

to add one more thing...Ruth was a pretty good pitcher besides HR hitter

10 Years = w-L 94- 46 .671 2.28era 163 games 148 games started.

im still waiting for proof that hes on the juice

until then, shut up

im still waiting for proof that hes on the juice

until then, shut up


Exactly.Bonds knows the consequences of being tested positive and he doesn't want that to happen.

And my bad on the Babe Ruth part,someone else in the thread was a Ruth backer and I thought you posted that.

Ruth was the Sultan of Swat but you think the pitchers velocity and control was nearly as good as a guy like Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez?

Ruth is probably the best all-around player while Bonds will be known as the best slugger.And if you're going to question Bonds,question the whole league because almost everyone is using some type of supplement to bulk up (not all is illegal.)

Exactly.Bonds knows the consequences of being tested positive and he doesn't want that to happen.

Sorry but players know beforehand when tests are going to be done. It's not hard to cycle off.

Ruth was the Sultan of Swat but you think the pitchers velocity and control was nearly as good as a guy like Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez?

Due to expansion, smaller parks, juiced balls, and juiced players I don't see how the pitching staffs of different eras can be compared.

this article reafirms my belief that Barry Bonds is a great athlete.
But Like C.Barkley...he has no business talking to the media...
Hes tarnishing all his various achievements by talking so much crap.


:shakehead

No it hasn't. It's sad that the writers hide behind the Freedom of Speech, but when Barry says on his mind they condemn him for it. These are the same writers who all profess that Barry is a juice pig (i think so too), though they have no factual information to base their claims. However, Bonds is basing his information on other players who have actually lived in the city. These black athletes would have a better understanding than any white person who lives there. (So all the white folk in Boston can't really defend the city since they haven't personally experience any sort of racism)... Isn't Boston the same city where Dee Brown was pulled over twice for being a black man in a sports car?

I think this is just another attempt by the writers to discredit the player because they personally don't like him.

I frankly don't care. If baseball can stand for steroid use, but not gambling, then fine. They refuse to re-test Barry Bonds' samples for steroids. That's a joke. Let's have this steroid debate 25 years after the fact like we do the Rose debate. What other excuse can you come up with for hitting more home runs yearly at an older age than steroids?

Dilluted pitching, smaller baseball parks, experience, strength gains just to name a few

Bonds shows his arrogance, ignorance and insecurities every time he opens his mouth.....does anybody care anymore?, its like listening to Deion Sanders expressing his opinions..... :lol

Who cares. Bonds is just an arrogant p----.

Remember the way he was acting after the Giants lost to the Angels?! :blush:

im still waiting for proof that hes on the juice

until then, shut up


I saw him popping his bacne one day. He also carries his head around in a wheelbarrow.

Har Har about the steroid jokes....I doubt Bonds takes them and even if he does,Barry not taking steroids is 10x the hitter any of us are.He's a great player and wouldn't be mad if he was the career HR hitter.

Barry Bonds and many, many other athletes are using steroids and HGH. There's an enormous drug underground to most sports and athletes are just staying one step ahead of the testing methods. If the truth were to ever come out, it would be a shockingly high percentage of MLB players to use steroids.

wow thanks for the insight

Barry Bonds and many, many other athletes are using steroids and HGH. There's an enormous drug underground to most sports and athletes are just staying one step ahead of the testing methods. If the truth were to ever come out, it would be a shockingly high percentage of MLB players to use steroids.

Out of curiousity, what percentage do you think that would be?

In the mid-late 90s when I had some buddies on the inside in Track and Field and it was common knowledge that a high proportion of the guys/girls were on the juice. It could never be proven (since the tests are a joke), but everybody knew who was on the juice.

No, it'll be 'Get out of town jerk" signs.

I love this town, warts and all....it had, (I stress the had), a deserved reputation at one time but I believe a lot of it came from a "taking care of our own" siege mentality from the Irish neighborhoods, that manifested itself from the treatment they got from the Brahmin riuling class. (True fact: Know why there are no public toilets in Boston? Because the Brahmins didn't want the Irish hanging around town, strolling through the Commons, having picinics, shopping, etc...very true. The only reason there are any toilets at all is because Curley wanted to stick it to the old money Bostonians).

a) there are tons of towns that have segregated populations, out of necessity and/or by choice. Harlem, Watts, So. Central, So. Side Chicago....hell, the south side of SF is largely Latin....Nothing out of the ordinary so I don't want to hear about how it's such an exclusive trend around here. The NY Dems complained about having to party at the L Street bathouse on the Southie waterfront.....sorry ya ignorant putzes, Southie has changed dramatically....in fact, the Suffolk County Sheriff election in 1994, a black man Ralph Martin, carried the neighborhood beating an Irish-American Democrat....and the current sheriff is a black woman.

b) there are more predominantly black and/or integrated neighborhoods/towns/regions than there ever has been. Randolph, Framingham and Mashpee immediately come to mind....and I ain't heard anything out of ther ordinary from any of these towns....I guess we can all live together, tra-la-la-laaaaaaaaaaaa!

c) In a very rough looksee, I went through the last 3 decades and counted up the percentage of black and hispanic Red Sox ballplayers vervsus the non-black and non-hispanic players, (who also included asians and others).
1980-89 - 11% were black and/or hispanic.
1990-99 - 25% were black and/or hispanic.
2000-present - +28% were/are black and/or hispanic.

d) of the 13 Boston city councilors, there are 2 blacks, 2 Latins and 2 women....(I won't even go into the political makeup of the neighboring People's Republik of Cambridge, which would spike the numbers even higher)

e) Quite frankly, and I don't care if it creates a firestorm....I'm 46 years old. I have ALWAYS tried to treat people the way I want to be treated. I can't be held responsible for what happened during our nation's history, especially the slavery years....so go screw yourself if I don't fit your proifile for hatred.

In short, Barry Bionds should duck if and when he ever comes to Boston. Not because he's black, but because he's an ignorant a-hole who's generalizing and slagging an entire city.

I frankly don't care. If baseball can stand for steroid use, but not gambling, then fine. They refuse to re-test Barry Bonds' samples for steroids. That's a joke. Let's have this steroid debate 25 years after the fact like we do the Rose debate. What other excuse can you come up with for hitting more home runs yearly at an older age than steroids?
he isnt, its that simple. he had 1 season that deviated, and that was his 73 home runs eason. the only difference is he is healthy now, and able to play more. In fact, the main sign someone is on juice is a bunch of nagging injuries. Bonds, if anything, has shown the exact opposite of the signs. Mcgwire on the other hand, was the poster boy for being juiced. I wonder why noone questions him though? Another thing about Bonds, he isnt going to hit home runs that average 450 feet, most of his homers are just over 400. That's what i dont get about Bonds. Everyone says he's on juice, but there isnt any ounce of credible evidence to suggest he is.

I fail to see what Babe Ruth or steroids have to do with this subject. Comparisons across generations only lack the fact of being accurate and Bonds hasn't been found guilty of a thing.

I think this is just another attempt by the writers to discredit the player because they personally don't like him.
I think Gordon Edes is one of the best writers in baseball, and I know a lot of well-respected people in the game feel the same way. It's not like this article was written by CHB or any of the clowns from WEEI. His comments stand on their own, and they were made in respone to a question about whether he'd ever consider ending his career in Boston. After all, he had said a day or two before that he could see himself ending his career as a DH in the AL. That's not a vendetta from a writer; it's a legitimate question.

Ultimately, this is just another reason why I feel no sympathy for Barry Bonds when he claims he isn't revered like some other athletes. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to live somewhere. I've spent quite a bit of time in such areas of Washington as Anacostia and Riggs Park, and there's no way I'd want to live there. I would never feel comfortable. That's just the way it is, and if Barry Bonds feels the same way about Boston, who am I or is anybody else to argue with him? It's his life. However, what he said is as insensitive and ignorant as the mentality he claimed he wished to avoid in (his second-hand version of) Boston.

He's a great athlete, but that doesn't make him wiser than the common person. In this case, he's simply as ignorant as anybody wearing their bedsheets out at night.

he isnt, its that simple. he had 1 season that deviated, and that was his 73 home runs eason. the only difference is he is healthy now, and able to play more. In fact, the main sign someone is on juice is a bunch of nagging injuries. Bonds, if anything, has shown the exact opposite of the signs. Mcgwire on the other hand, was the poster boy for being juiced. I wonder why noone questions him though? Another thing about Bonds, he isnt going to hit home runs that average 450 feet, most of his homers are just over 400. That's what i dont get about Bonds. Everyone says he's on juice, but there isnt any ounce of credible evidence to suggest he is.exactly

Ruth is probably the best all-around player while Bonds will be known as the best slugger.Bonds is the 5 tool player that everybody will measure the next great one against.

There is no doubt in my mind that Barry Bonds has taken steroids. There isn't any other way to explain it besides simply looking at the numbers. While I will never argue that Barry Bonds is a fanastic player, he supplimented his game late in his career to acheive even greater heighs. It is almost unprecidented to see the jump in home runs that Barry saw from his average 1986-2000 season, to the total that he hit in 2001. Just for comparison purposes, i've taken the names of three admited steroid users in Brady Anderson, Luis Gonzalez, and Ken Caminitti to compare. The results are eerie similar. It's also worth mentioning that these "breakout seasons" didn't happen in what is considered the prime of these players career. They were all over the age of 32 years old. Coincidence? I'm thinking not. Barry doesn't have to say he did it, the statistics say it for him.

Brady Anderson:

Home Runs between 1988-1995: 72
Times at Bat: 3,271
AB per HR: 45.4

Home Runs in 1996: 50
Times at Bat: 579
AB per HR: 11.58
Age in season: 32 years old

Barry Bonds:

Home Runs between 1986-2000: 494
Times at Bat: 7456
AB per HR: 15.09

Home Runs in 2001: 73
Times at Bat: 476
AB per HR: 6.52
Age in season: 37 years old

Luis Gonzalez

Home Runs between 1990-2000: 164
Times at Bat: 5096
AB per HR: 31.07

Home Runs in 2001: 57
Times at Bat: 609
AB per HR: 10.68
Age in season: 34 years old

Ken Caminitti

Home Runs between 1986-1995: 101
Times at Bat: 3967
AB per HR: 39.27

Home Runs in 1996: 40
Times at Bat: 546
AB per HR: 13.65
Age in season: 33 years old

Barry doesn't have to say he did it, the statistics say it for him.so basically you still have no proof

so basically you still have no proof


The proof that I presented is pretty much all that I need, for my own opinion. For future reference, another personal attack will result in a ban. I'd recommend you keep yourself under control.

Barry Bonds:

Home Runs between 1986-2000: 494
Times at Bat: 7456
AB per HR: 15.09

Home Runs in 2001: 73
Times at Bat: 476
AB per HR: 6.52
Age in season: 37 years old

1 season proves nothing. all his subsequent seasons were about average.

He also carries his head around in a wheelbarrow.
:lol :joker: :lol

1 season proves nothing. all his subsequent seasons were about average.


Well my general point I was trying to accomplish was that the players who have come out as saying they have used steroids usually have a season that breaks the normal output by a wide margin, and Bonds did exactly that. These players also broke out at ages that aren't conventionally considered the prime of a career, and Bonds was 37 years old. Jose Canseco is another example. After his stats dropped off considerably, he had a huge 46 home run season with the Toronto Blue Jays in a year that probably saw him use steroids on a more frequent basis to get his edge back. Players that see an impending slump approaching in terms of their ability to play, reasonable doubts or not, are often tempted to do anything possible to keep the edge over the competition. I think Bonds succumbed to his own ego and gave in. That's my point, and I don't think the stats lie. That's why I made the disclaimer that Bonds was still a great player. He is a .300 40 100 guy any day of the week, but the massive totals he put up starting in 2000 with his 49 home run season and then his subsequent 73 home run year were manufactured some other way than honestly, if you ask me.

Bonds is the 5 tool player that everybody will measure the next great one against.
Nope... Babe Ruth still is...

dont believe it...even Bonds stated that he just wanted to pass Ruth.

Aaron has more hrs than Ruth yet...it always seems to come up with the HR arguments.

Nope... Babe Ruth still is...

dont believe it...even Bonds stated that he just wanted to pass Ruth.


Only because he is white...Bonds is as ignorant, spiteful and pathetic as any Klan member.

....
of the guys you mentioned, only Camminity ever admitted to it.

If Bonds starts developing heath issues such as liver problems or breasts in his fifties, we'll know for a fact or not if he was taking steroids.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bonds is taking steroids, just like McGwire when he broke Maris' record. There's something odd when you get more muscle mass and start hitting more HR's the older you get. It'd be like Brett Hull netting 40-50 goals next season after a slow decline, yeah he's a natural goal scorer, but it would be very odd at his age.

Nope... Babe Ruth still is...5 tools include speed... therefore Bonds is the better 5 tool player. One of the only 3 to have a 40-40 season... take that however you want.

Ruth is the best player of all time, but a 5 tool player he is not.

The proof that I presented is pretty much all that I need, for my own opinion. For future reference, another personal attack will result in a ban. I'd recommend you keep yourself under control.your argument is terrible

youre essentially saying that any athlete that overachieves one year in on the juice

your argument is terrible

youre essentially saying that any athlete that overachieves one year in on the juice


Listen, you're going to last a lot longer around here if you start using phrases like "in my opinion" and "if you ask me" or something that would denote that its your opinion and not the gospel. You're entitled to your opinion just as much as I am mine, but to call my argument terrible is just short-sighted on your part. If you're going to make bold statements such as that, please provide dissenting evidence rather than just saying it outright. I hope to not have to mention this again.

The point of my examples was that there are a few players who have been either HIGHLY suspected of using steroids or have outright admitted it that have put up similar results to Barry Bonds. Is that all that terrible? It's not just one statistical blip on the radar screen. Barry Bonds more than cut in HALF his HR per AB in the season in which he hit 73 home runs. He also did this at the age that most hitters hit the decline of their career. Bonds had only hit over 40 home runs 2 times in his entire career up to the year 2000. These years accounted for his "prime" in terms of how normal hitters usually produce. Even hall of fame hitters. You expect us all to believe that Bonds just learned how to hit more home runs in 2001? At the age of 37, hitters usually tend to drop off the face of the earth in terms of production and suddenly Bonds almost doubled his without any help from any sort? If you took Bonds' best two seasons between the ages of 26-30, which is usually considered the prime of a career, you come up with 83 home runs. You mean to tell me that Bonds hit 73 AFTER reaching 37 years old? That alone would lead one to be highly suspicious. Then, you hear about his trainer being involved in the whole BALCO thing, and it gets all the more hazy.

If you have a legitimate argument as to why this happened i'd love to hear it.

I've also failed to mention the fact that Bonds went from being a fairly wirey framed individual from as long ago as 5 years ago, to now being a behemoth with arms bigger than it would seem possible. Working out is one thing, blowing up is another. If you could also explain this, i'd like to hear that as well.

I've also failed to mention the fact that Bonds went from being a fairly wirey framed individual from as long ago as 5 years ago, to now being a behemoth with arms bigger than it would seem possible. Working out is one thing, blowing up is another. If you could also explain this, i'd like to hear that as well.haha

a bohemoth???

bonds is listed as 6'2" 228lbs.

brett favre is listed as 6'2" 225lbs.

would you classify him as a 'bohemoth' as well???

also, anyone would put on serious mass w/ the type of training regimen that the guy goes through both during the season and during the off season as well

coincidentally, he started doing this just before his 2001 season...

It's not just one statistical blip on the radar screen.actually it is

why are you completely disregarding the seasons between 2002 and the present???

Only because he is white...Bonds is as ignorant, spiteful and pathetic as any Klan member.

i do agree with you...Bonds only shows thats hes a ignorant ******* by saying he wants to pass Ruth [that being cause hes white as a reason]

, i've taken the names of three admited steroid users in Brady Anderson, Luis Gonzalez, and Ken Caminitti to compare.

When did Brady Anderson and Luis Gonzalez admit to taking steroids?
As far as I know, it was Jim Palmer who called out Brady.

I've also failed to mention the fact that Bonds went from being a fairly wirey framed individual from as long ago as 5 years ago, to now being a behemoth with arms bigger than it would seem possible. Working out is one thing, blowing up is another. If you could also explain this, i'd like to hear that as well.

This is always the thing that gets me. I don't see how you make that drastic of a change so quickly.

McGuire was always sort of a beefed up power hitter, but Bonds went from really a small guy to becoming quite the hefty power hitter looking type. McGuire still could have taken them, though, I really don't have an opinion there, and don't care too either.

Just one of the several reasons why I am a hockey fan first, then a lot of other stuff, followed on the near bottom of the list by a person who watches the occasional baseball game and a few World Series games.

^^^

McGwire took Andro,a type of steroid.Barry Bonds' arm is not that big,caniac.How do you know that Bonds has been hitting more round trippers because of plate discipline and pitch selection?

This is always the thing that gets me. I don't see how you make that drastic of a change so quickly.

McGuire was always sort of a beefed up power hitter, but Bonds went from really a small guy to becoming quite the hefty power hitter looking type. McGuire still could have taken them, though, I really don't have an opinion there, and don't care too either.

Just one of the several reasons why I am a hockey fan first, then a lot of other stuff, followed on the near bottom of the list by a person who watches the occasional baseball game and a few World Series games.

You need to go look at some tapes of McGwire in his rookie year. He bulked up just as much as Bonds.

http://www.sportscardshark.com/images/10687x250.jpg

http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/images/090203/bonds.jpg

Hmm guys,I never knew that once you make it to the bigs,you weren't allowed to lift and train to get bigger.Even if he is on the juice,players who are have to work their ass off to keep it that way and to get there.When you use steroids,it's not like you just take them every day and you get bigger....you have to work hard at it.And unless you can give me actual proof,Bonds is steroid free to me.

I don't see how you make that drastic of a change so quickly.this is a common misconception

its not like he ended a season at 195 lbs. and walked into spring training at 225 lbs.

he busted his ass for many years to get into the shape he is in now

^^^

McGwire took Andro,a type of steroid.Barry Bonds' arm is not that big,caniac.How do you know that Bonds has been hitting more round trippers because of plate discipline and pitch selection?


Since this is the most logical point made in opposition of Bonds using steroids, i'll just address this one. Age is the important factor in this discussion. It is generally accepted that as age increases, your physical ability to do the things you used to do with ease decreases. What gives a player longevity is the ability to incorporate knowledge of the game to compensate for your body breaking down on you. A marked decline in baseball players usually is the age of 35 years old. Once a player reaches this plateau, it is usually all they can do to maintain the level of play that they had in previous years. If a player is cerebral enough, he will find a way to use his mind instead of his body to put up similar production into the twilight of his career. This is where pitch selection and discipline comes into play. Where as a younger player might just be able to adjust to a pitch late and still make contact, a player who is older and has diminished reflexes and reaction time doesn't. With pitching as speed oriented as it is today, reaction time is something highly coveted by today's standards. This would lend one to believe that it is significantly harder to produce after the age of 35 years old now instead of in past years.


Even with increased knowledge of the game and plate discipline at an all-time high for Bonds, it is very unlikely that he would be able to put up better results than he has in the past due to the fact that age escapes nobody. No matter how conditioned or trained or dedicated you are, age is going to take its toll no matter what. The only thing that I feel can be accomplished by intense training is the ability to go for longer periods of time without your body physically wearing down, but you can't regain reflexive skills like you would have had at 25 at the age of 37, once they have been lost. Without help, that is. Without an additional suppliment to build strength and to help you increase your bat speed so that reaction time is not so much at a premium due to the fact that you can get your bat through the zone with more fervor. Strength, is essentially what i'm trying to get at.


In recap, let's review the facts in a simple way. A player spends the majority of his career being a doubles hitter with pretty decent power numbers. He is agile enough to steal 30 bases a year, and is primarily consider a line drive or "slap" hitter. After piecing together a fantastic career in which loads of all-star games are made, this player reaches the age of 35 years old and starts to feel his body come out from under him. This is where the story gets hazy. The camp that believes Bonds didn't take steroids say that he dedicted himself to conditioning, came back with arms that were considerably bigger, and hit home runs at almost double the rate he has hit in his entire career, despite being 37 years old. The camp that belives that Bonds took steroids say that he went off and took steroids, came back with an intense gain of strength, and used his natural ability supplimented by chemicals to hit balls into orbit.


For a more apt comparison, let's say that Steve Yzerman comes back next season with Detroit and scores 73 goals. How many eyebrows would this raise? I'm sure there would be fans that would say that Yzerman's supreme knowledge of where to be on the ice and his knowledge of the game is what lead him to such a great season, while others would see it for what it really was and know that Yzerman is using an unfair advantage to produce at the level that he is.


In closing, i'd like to say that I have no stake in this besides being a baseball fan. I don't even have a favorite MLB team, i'm just a fan of the game. Barry Bonds could be purple, blue, or red for all I care. I feel he is a disgrace to the game and is tainting the record books with his ill-gotten strength.

and is primarily consider a line drive or "slap" hitter.LOL

there goes your credibility

nolan ryan threw a no hitter at the age of 43

i guess he was on the juice as well since it is impossible to dominate the game at such a late age

nolan ryan threw a no hitter at the age of 43

i guess he was on the juice as well since it is impossible to dominate the game at such a late age

That was one game. Major differance in sustained dominance and what amounts to a statistical anomaly.

And why is my credibility shot for saying Barry Bonds was predomiantly a line drive hitter between 1986-1993 or so? Isn't that what he was? If you have some sort of inside information that i'm not able to access then i'd appreciate you teaching me some things. All I have are my eyes.

It seems all you've done is try to laugh at my arguments, are you capable of disproving them or what? If they are so laughable, it should be easy to rip them apart. I invite you to do such.

ARod used to be smaller and more of an all-around guy when he was in Seattle, but now he's pretty huge and one of the game's premier power hitter (just like the Bonds transformation)... guess that he must be on the juice too...

It seems all you've done is try to laugh at my arguments, are you capable of disproving them or what? If they are so laughable, it should be easy to rip them apart. I invite you to do such.Are you capable of showing us a positive test before chalking up Bonds has a user? Can you come up with one? Until you can, he's innocent.

With Sheffield and Giambi, the Yankees have already used up their allotment of juicers. A-Rod's just a victim of numbers.

Are you capable of showing us a positive test before chalking up Bonds has a user? Can you come up with one? Until you can, he's innocent.

This has nothing to do with refuting my arguments, but i'll go ahead and take care of this one. Do you have any proof that Ozzy Osbourne is on any perscription drugs? Do you have any test results that say Snoop Dog smokes weed? All that i've done is gathered my observations about a particular player's behavior and production and compared them to players like Caminitti, who have come out and said he was involved in steroid use. These observations place the burden upon the people in favor of Bonds to either refute them or accept them. All i'm asking is that a person offer up a reasonable argument in favor of Bonds not doing this. It seems that quite a few people are living in a state of serious denial and would rather simply not see these issues.


Even without the whole balco thing i'd be looking sideways at Bonds. Now that his own personal trainer has been charged with distributing steroids to atheletes, it's all the more aparent that he's involved in some shady dealings. Do we need to catch him holding a sign that says "I take Steroids!" before we are willing to accept that all the warning signs are there? There is a differance between people simply not wanting to believe the truth and people not being able to see the truth. There appears to be a bulk of the former with us here.

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/ozzy.php

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text10-9-2002-27857.asp

oops

Are you capable of showing us a positive test before chalking up Bonds has a user? Can you come up with one? Until you can, he's innocent.


Maybe if MLB did testing before last year we might know. And if the current testing had any teeth we might know. Heck he could have already tested postive but we wont ever know, because thats how MLB wants it. What we do know is over 3% of MLB player DID test postive last year, what we dont know who they are. Bonds could or could not be one of them

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/ozzy.php

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text10-9-2002-27857.asp

oops



I like this one best. Who knew Ozzy was a Blues fan


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.ebaumsworld.com/mugshot-ozzy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ebaumsworld.com/mugshots-ozzyosbourne.html&h=318&w=499&sz=39&tbnid=i_zciE8oj58J:&tbnh=80&tbnw=125&start=15&prev=/images%3Fq%3DOzzy%2BOsbourne%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26i e%3DUTF-8

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/ozzy.php

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/text10-9-2002-27857.asp

oops

I said test results for Snoop Dogg, and I meant to say the same thing for Ozzy. Find those now.

It's kind of laughable how you picked the least relevant part of my post and decided to pick on that. It also seems your are incapable of making a post longer than a sentence to support your claim. Two links and a single word isnt exactly an arguement, nice try though.

so youre saying if bonds told everyone today that he used or is currently using, you wouldnt believe him because there are no test results

awesome

also, all of your posts on this subject have been irrelevant

youre just spewing out facts and figures(stats LOL) that everyone is already aware of

like i said in my first post, until the test results are open to the public or an admission of guilt is made, i will continue to believe that he is clean

sure, it is possible that he has done it. im not denying that. the circumstantial evidence speaks for itself(balco, greg anderson, etc.)

if you buy into the whole 'guilty until proven innocent' theory, then thats your prerogative

if you buy into the whole 'guilty until proven innocent' theory, then thats your prerogative

It's not so much that I buy into "guilty until proven innocent" theory, it's just that when such a great deal of circumstantial evidence piles on top of itself it's kind of a hard thing for me to ignore. I never intended to offend Bonds supporters, I just was trying to state the case against him.

This whole line of discussion is irrlevent. The subject at hand was Bonds's comment, not steroid use or his statistics. Anywho, when in Boston, uh, I mean Rome...

I think the questions regarding steroid use and Bonds are worthy of asking. The numbers he's put up far beyond what someone like Billy Beane or Bill James would consider a player's prime (i.e., around 28 years) are unbelievable. Nevertheless, to claim he's guilty based solely on circumstantial statistics is a circumstantial argument. However, to claim he's innocent, case closed, in the face of his physical change and statistical explosion seems just a tad bit naive. Forget the semantics of innocence or guilt (no small matter, mind you, but semantics as far as this discussion is concerned) - I think we'd all admit at the end of the day after a beer that something's afoot: either Bonds has been using illegial steroids or his accomplishments are even more historic than widely believed.

Ultimately, this will probably never go away in some minds, but testing would go a long way to ending it. Good luck with that.