EC Day #4: Czech Republic v Latvia / Germany v Holland (GDT)

First big score yesterday (Bulgaria didn't deserve that though) afetr a gret Swedish performance!

Today, grudge game #1 at the EC and the second big shock of the Tournament! Holland v Germany!!
And also the debut of a shadow favorite for some people: the Czech Republic against Latvia. This is a little bit of a group of death for me, with three teams that all would go through in most other groups...


Czech Rep v Latvia

GROUP D
Venue: Aveiro Municipal, Aveiro
Date/time: Tue, 15 June, 1800 CET
Referee: Gilles Veissiere (France)
Team news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3787531.stm


Germany v Holland

GROUP D
Venue: Dragao stadium, Porto
Date/time: Tue, 15 June, 2045CET
Referee: Anders Frisk (Sweden)
Team News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2004/3787535.stm


********** Predictions **********

I continued my horrible run yesterday with the grand total of 0 points for me wich adds up to the even grander total of 3 points on three days!! I officially suck!


Day 1:
Portugal v Greece: 2-0 (Figo)
Spain v Russia: 2-1 (Raul Gonzalez Blanco)
Day 2:
Switzerland v Croatia: 2-1 (Frei)
France v England: 1-1 (Owen)
Day 3:
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 1-1 (Berbatov)

Today:

Czech Republic v Latvia: 3-0 (Baros)
Germany v Holland: 1-2 (Ruud)


Enjoy the game and keep the bad vibes out of here as much as possible :)

Day 1
Portugal 2 : 1 Greece (C. Ronaldo)
Spain 2 : 0 Russia (F. Morientes)
Day 2
France 2 : 1 England (T. Henry)
Switzerland 1 : 0 Croatia (A. Frei)
Day 3
Denmark 1 : 2 Italy (A. Del Piero)
Sweden 2 : 1 Bulgaria (H. Larsson)

Total points so far: 18

Day 4
Czech Republic 2 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)
Germany 2 : 2 Holland (R. van Nistelrooy)

Oh F' me I can't wait..

Chech Republic 3 - 0 Latvia (Nedved)

Netherlands 1 - 1 Germany (Kurani)

Day 1

Portugal 2:1 Greece (Pauleta)
Spain 3:1 Russia (Raul)

Day 2

Swiss - Croatia 2-1 (Hakan Yakin)
France - England 3-1 (Henry)

Day 3:
Denmark v Italy: 0-2 (Totti)
Sweden v Bulgaria: 2-1 (Larsson)

That is 12 Points in total


Day 4
Czech Republic 3 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)

Finally the game I have been waiting for for months
Germany 3 : 1 Holland (M. Ballack) :banana: :banana:

Day 1

Portugal - Greece: 3-0 (Rui Costa) - 0 points

Spain - Russia: 3-1 (Raul) - 3 points

Day 2

Switzerland - Croatia: 0-1 (Prso) - 0 points

France - England: 1-2 (Owen) - 0 points

Day 3

Denmark - Italy: 0-1 (Totti) - 0 points

Sweden - Bulgaria: 1-0 (Ljungberg) - 6 points

Point Total so far : 9

Day 4

Czech Rep. - Latvia: 3-0 (Nedved)

Germany - Holland: 1-2 (R. van Nistelrooy)

Day 1: 3 points
Day 2: 3 points
Day 3: 6 points
Makes 12 in total.

Today:
Czech Republic 3 - 0 Latvia (Rosicky)
Germany 1 - 2 Netherlands (Ballack)

12 points so far...

Czech Republic v Latvia: 4-0 (Koller)
Germany v Holland: 1-3 (Ruud)

=====================================
Spain 2 - 0 Russia (Raul) - 3
Portugal 3 - 1 Greece (Nuno Gomes) - 0
=====================================
France 1 - 1 England (Scholes) - 0
Switserland 0 - 1 Croatia (Pršo) - 0
=====================================
Denmark 1 - 2 Italy (Jon-Dahl) - 0
Sweden 1 - 1 Bulgaria (Larsson) - 3
=====================================
Czech Republic 2 - 0 Latvia (Nedved)
Germany 1 - 2 Netherlands (Van Nistelrooy)

I'm not going to predict anything, but I'm already so excited , I'm staring to feel sick!!!


:jump:

I'm not going to predict anything, but I'm already so excited , I'm staring to feel sick!!!


:jump:

You shouldn't jump when you feel sick..;)

But yes, it's natural, every Dutchman goes through the same right now..

Well yesterdays prediction were pretty bad.

Today is the day that I've been waiting for a pretty long time.

Czech Republic vs. Latvia: 3-1 (Karel Poborsky)

Germany vs. Holland: 2-2 (Ruud Van Nistelrooy)

Well yesterdays prediction were pretty bad.

Today is the day that I've been waiting for a pretty long time.

Germany vs. Holland: 2-2 (Ruud Van Nistelrooy)

If today is the day you have been waiting for a pretty long time than is a 2-2 result rather dissapointing, Tom. I seem to remember from you that The Netherlands didn't stand a chance. :)

If today is the day you have been waiting for a pretty long time than is a 2-2 result rather dissapointing, Tom. I seem to remember from you that The Netherlands didn't stand a chance. :)
I know, but I see things realistic here.

Ough...please show me, where I said it.

BTW I also love to talk smack from time to time.

Czech Republic 3 : 1 Latvia (Koller)
Germany 1 : 3 Holland (Van Nistelrooy)

Here's the possible line up for "the game":

Germany: Kahn- Friedrich, Nowotny, Wörns, Lahm- Haman, Baumann- Schneider, Ballack, Frings- Kuranyi.

Holland: Van der Saar- Van Bronckhorst, Bouma, Stam, Reiziger- Davids, Sneijder, Cocu- Van der Vaart, Van Nistelrooy, Van der Meyde

OMG: The only offensive German players are Schneider, Ballack and Kuranyi, but they are well suited for possible fast-breaks.

Don't expect a beautiful game. Rudi will just try to copy the tactic used by the Greeks on Saturday.

OMG: The only offensive German players are Schneider and Kuranyi, but both are well suited for possible fast-breaks.


and ballack is not offensive-minded? :)


Don't expect a beautiful game. Rudi will just try to copy the tactic used by the Greeks on Saturday.

who's expecting a beautiful game when germany is playing? :joker:

and ballack is not offensive-minded? :)


Hoppla! I'll re-edit.

Here's the possible line up for "the game":

Germany: Kahn- Friedrich, Nowotny, Wörns, Lahm- Haman, Baumann- Schneider, Ballack, Frings- Kuranyi.

Holland: Van der Saar- Van Bronckhorst, Bouma, Stam, Reiziger- Davids, Sneijder, Cocu- Van der Vaart, Van Nistelrooy, Van der Meyde

OMG: The only offensive German players are Schneider, Ballack and Kuranyi, but they are well suited for possible fast-breaks.

Don't expect a beautiful game. Rudi will just try to copy the tactic used by the Greeks on Saturday.

That's far from our best line-up, so you guys should be lucky.. ;)

That's far from our best line-up, so you guys should be lucky.. ;)

:lol

where's zenden? he's the only dutch i like. :)

:lol

where's zenden? he's the only dutch i like. :)

Well, Robben and Heitinga are the two obvious, Zenden is > Bronckhorst as well, yes..

This is the best line-up possible using the selected ofcourse.. (I so wish I could include Bergkamp)..

GK .. Edwin van der Sar

LD .. Wilfred Bouma
CD .. Jaap Stam
CD .. Philip Cocu
RD .. John Heitinga

LM .. Wesley Sneijder
CM .. Edgar Davids
RM .. Rafael van der Vaart

LW .. Arjen Robben
ST .. Patrick Kluivert
RW .. Marc Overmars

The only Dutch I like is Bergkamp, fantastic player!

The only Dutch I'm afraid of is RvN, he's a monster!

Well, Robben and Heitinga are the two obvious, Zenden is > Bronckhorst as well, yes..

bronckhort is a ranger, therefore he sucks. :D

This is the best line-up possible

GK .. Edwin van der Sar

LD .. Wilfred Bouma
CD .. Jaap Stam
CD .. Philip Cocu
RD .. John Heitinga

LM .. Wesley Sneijder
CM .. Edgar Davids
RM .. Rafael van der Vaart

LW .. Arjen Robben
ST .. Patrick Kluivert
RW .. Marc Overmars

Best line-up possible, Heitinga and Kluivert ?!!? :eek:

DAY 1: 3 points
DAY 2: 6 points
DAY 3: 3 points
-------------------
TOTAL: 12 points

Czech Rep. 3 - 0 Latvia (Koller)
Germany 0 - 2 Holland (van Nistelrooy)

I'm pretty sure about the winners, but the scores might be in both games more like 5-0.

Czech Republic v Latvia: 2-0 (Baros)
Germany v Holland: 2-2 (Ruud)

Oh dear, I have six points after 3 days of competition. :shakehead

Today I go for:

Czech republic-Latvia: 3-1 (Nedved)
Holland-Germany: 1-1 (Kuranyi)

I just heard that the Netherlands will have Zenden on LW, and Overmars on RW, with Sneijder not in the starting 11. Robben should not play from the beginning because he's not 100% fit and Advocaat does not want to risk anything. He could come as a sibstitute in the 2nd half though.

Don't know if it's true, but that's what I heard.

It's what Voetbal International (biggest Dutch soccer magazine) is reporting as well, based on what they saw on the last training...

Line-up would be:

--------------------------------Van der Sar--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Heitinga-----------------------Bouma---Stam------------v Bronckhorst
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overmars-----------------Davids---------Cocu-----------------Zenden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------Vander Vaart-----------------------
--------------------------Van Nistelrooy------------------------------

Still, it is rather speculative, so it might as well be a fallback system in case 4-3-3 fails...

So, I presume that van der Sar will play despite of the injury?

So, I presume that van der Sar will play despite of the injury?

As said before, there hasn't been a single mention of any injury Van der Sar would have had, so I think the BBC messed up there

DAY ONE
Spain 1 - 0 Russia (Vicente) 3+3 points
Portugal 3 - 1 Greece (Rui Costa) 0 points

DAY TWO
Croatia vs. Switzerland 1-1 (Frei) 3 points
France vs. England 1-1 (Owen) 0 points

DAY THREE
Denmark vs. Italy 0-1 (Vieri) 0 points
Sweden vs. Bulgaira 2-0 (Ibrahimovic) 3+3 points

DAY FOUR
Holland vs. Germany 1-1 (Van Nistelrooy)
Czech Rep vs. Latvia 2-0 (Nedved)

total points: 15

It's what Voetbal International (biggest Dutch soccer magazine) is reporting as well, based on what they saw on the last training...

Line-up would be:

--------------------------------Van der Sar--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Heitinga-----------------------Bouma---Stam------------v Bronckhorst
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Overmars-----------------Davids---------Cocu-----------------Zenden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------Vander Vaart-----------------------
--------------------------Van Nistelrooy------------------------------

Still, it is rather speculative, so it might as well be a fallback system in case 4-3-3 fails...

It questions me why Arjen Robben isn't there instead of Zenden and why Sneijder isn't in the line-up at all. It would mean Cocu playing Defense, getting rid of van Bronckworst..

Used to be high on Bouma, promesing defender that made Hofland expendable, but he's made a few erros the past few games, will be interesting to see if he and Johnny can handle the pressure..

Also, if Robben and Sneijder start (which is still a very likely possibility), the Dutch will start with 4 players of 20 years old or below it..

According to the NOS, there will be aproxemately 22.000 Dutch supporters and 10.500 German fans tonight. The rest is filled with outsiders..

I still don't know where to watch that match! :dunno:

The wheather here in Hannover sure sucks, I was going to watch it with 40,000 of my closet friends on a big-ass screen in the city center but there have been thunderstorms the whole day and it's doesn't look like it is going to end!

:mad:

I pray to god that at least the TV will work despite the thunderstorms!

Czech Republic - Lettland 3:0 (Koller)
Germany - Holland 2:2 (Ballack)

One hour till I hit the pub. Screw work tomorrow, this will be an awesome night!
:banana: :banana: :banana:

Looks like Thunderstorms is coming to Berlin as well. :shakehead

Just bought some beers and watch the game at home with some friends.

I think I have a whopping 6 points. :banghead: :cry:

Czech Rep. - Latvia 4-0 (Nedved)
Germany - Holland 0-0 (Ruuuud!)

Here's hoping your weather is an omen ;)

As said before, there hasn't been a single mention of any injury Van der Sar would have had, so I think the BBC messed up there

No, that's not true.

As said before ;), he has a finger injury and will likely play with an injection.

15 points so far.
My predicitions :


Czeh Republic 2-0 Latvia (Baros)
Holland 1-1 Germany (Ruuuuuuud)

:lol:

Guess the score in the ongoing game? :lol:

Latvia leading 1 - 0 at half time. :handclap:

The one be Czech Favorits are playing dismaly.

Dutch and Germans must be laughing. :lol:

*Czechs are playing a rather low paced and predictable game, and players like Rosicky and Barros are keeping the ball way too long. Alows the Latvians to prepare, and block basically whatever the Czechs fire at them.

*Coverage on the Latvian goal was downright terrible. Four defenders: one on the winger, which was ok, but three guys + a goalie in the box and nobody being even remotely close to Verpakoskis?

Great movement by the striker to find the space to slot it home, a true goalscorer's goal :handclap:

Yes it wasn't great defending but the movement was so good by Verpakovskis it deserved a goal, very difficult to defend by the way, someone coming from behind your back

I'm bound by Jordi and Laurens to say this:

HUP HOLLAND HUP. Down with ze Germans.

Yes!!! :yo:

1-1

Hats off to both teams, Latvia really fought for what they were worth! The Czechs never quit though and kept running the entire match. I thought Nedved was the best player on the pitch for them, he worked relentless as always.
I think the Czechs did very well to earn the 2-1 draw even though I felt a bit sad for the Latvians

And for once, I have 6 points in one game :)

2-1 at the end and Latvia provided a good test to the Czechs.
Some will be disappointed by the Czechs but I was quite impressed by their maturity and the way they attacked the latvian defense in the second half.
They created multiple clearcut chances and only some decent goalkeeping and the posts denied them more goals.

I thought Nedved was the best player on the pitch for them, he worked relentless as always.

Poborsky deserves a mention as well. I thought he was past his prime but clearly the answer is no.

The Czech victory was in the end deserved, as the latvians as hard as they fought could not keep enough possesion.
Personally would have prefered a draw.
At least I scored another 6 points with my prediction. :yo:

So now less than 45 minutes to go to the big one.
:banana: :banana:

Yep Poborsky was great as well, even though he wasn't as 'omni-present'

BTW everyone who has these channels: TURN ON THE NOS or ZDF!!!! Johan Cruyff auf Deutsch!!

One more thing...could anyone tell me what exactly the Latvian GK was thinking in that 2nd goal? I'm pretty sure he knew the goal was sort of unprotected and yet he almost stopped on his tracks to watch how the defenders could handle the situation. :shakehead

Not that I want to downplay his performance in the game. He was great and outplayed Cech, who despite his talent seems to have some things to learn.

BTW everyone who has these channels: TURN ON THE NOS or ZDF!!!! Johan Cruyff auf Deutsch!!
His German is actually quite good.

Even though I'm neither German nor Dutch, I'm actually quite nervous because of that game!

A sea of orange in the stadium... This Holland-Germany should be a treat!

Most particularly, I'm wondering about Andy van der Meyde's presence in the starting roster (and Sneijder's lack).

Also I'd like to know what Baumann's role is in the German team, cause just going by the names, it looks to me like 5 defenders in their starting 11.

Also I'd like to know what Baumann's role is in the German team, cause just going by the names, it looks to me like 5 defenders in their starting 11.
He's lined up as a defensive midfielder, together with Hamann.

Thanks, Strizzi. So it's kind of like 4-1-4-1 formation?

Also, what would people think of Sneijder instead of Zenden?

Thanks, Strizzi. So it's kind of like 4-1-4-1 formation?
No, more of a defensive 4-2-3-1.

That was quite stupid of Kuranyi.

That was quite stupid of Kuranyi.

oh yea...i wonder what he thought.

so far the game isn't as boring as i expected. germany is doing ok. sometimes they try to play soccer. :eek: :D

nice try by kuranyi. he looks good so far. he's left alone, but tries to make the best out of it.

oh, chance for woerns. so far germany had the better chances, but ruuuuuud had a great one in the 2nd minute.

the dutch fans are calm. so far i don't notice that there are more dutch supporters. just the orange in the background shows it.

although no brutal fouls yet, a lot of small attacks. could become a nasty game.

and the dutch defense looks shaky after free-kicks and corners.

GOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLL GERMANYYYYYYYYY

what a nice free-kick.

frings was it.

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH HH :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

and the dutch defense looks shaky after free-kicks and corners.
Indeed. They're totally disorganized. Now it's gonna be tough for the Dutch.

that were the best 30min of the german national team for a long time. i'm very surprised.

and the dutch players are shocked. at least they look like they are.

some dutch fouls came out of frustration. they need the half-time-break, i think.

kuranyi is playing the italian style. he's diving like totti. and that although being booked. not very clever.

good shot by van der vaart. just a few inches wide.

germany is now standing too deep. they should try to attack earlier like they did at the beginning.

van der sar is pissed. :)

1st half is over.

germany is better, holland has no ideas. german fans can be happy, dutch fans have to search for the reason their team is that bad.

i'm off for a smoke. :)

Well-deserved lead for Germany after the 1st. Holland has played very disappointing so far. I wonder what adjustments they're going to make.

Germany played very good footbal! Totally deserving the 1-0 lead they've got. Holland lack attacking options on the win, Zenden and VDM aren't producing any danger. Very good tactical play by the Germans too, very effective in pressing up high forcing the Dutch defenders into the long ball.


MOM thus far: Anders Frisk, best performance I've seen from a ref in the Tournament thus far :handclap:

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

Give me a 4-3-3 NOW!

Jesus Christ! What is this panzy BS?!?!?!?!?!?

MOM thus far: Anders Frisk, best performance I've seen from a ref in the Tournament thus far :handclap:

absolutely, although he should have booked zenden. but nothing to care about.

and i think only davids had some nice tacklings, but he isn't producing either.

zenden and davids out, sneijder and overmars in. we'll see what it will bring.

michael skibbe (german national coach) just said, that he's happy with the play and that they will beat holland. aggressive words. :)

1st corner for holland in the 48th minute...that says a lot.

i like to add a few observations from the 1st half.

lahm and ballack looked really good. they were running a lot and won the ball often.

friedrich was good against ruuud.

frings, besides his goal, was were active too. this is the biggest surprise so far, besides nowotny making no mistakes. :D

d'oh, van bronckhorst looks bad.

holland looks better now, but still not the team, at least, i expected. but they try to get their chances. sneijder is very active. was a good substitution, it seems.

dutch fans still calm most of the time. like here on this board. ;)

zenden and davids out, sneijder and overmars in. we'll see what it will bring.
I don't understand why they didn't take van Bronckhorst (or another defender) out instead of Davids, and put Cocu into the defense. Davids was one of the better Dutchies in the 1st.

I don't understand why they didn't take van Bronckhorst (or another defender) out instead of Davids, and put Cocu into the defense. Davids was one of the better Dutchies in the 1st.

i totally agree.

van hojdonck (sp?) is doing some warm-up. he could get in in a few minutes. but wouldn't kluivert and makaay be the better options?

1st substitution germany:

schneider out, schweinsteiger in.

just the 2nd national game for schweinsteiger. he's 19 years old and one of the best talents. he could provide some offense.

and kuranyi is fighting as hell. now he seems to be injured. don't know what happened. he's lying next to the dutch goal.

schweinsteiger with his first chance. he's entertaining to watch and he gets the ball a lot.
after his substitution, the germans took over control again.

van hojdonck (how is he spelled?) will come in in a few seconds.

stam with a foul and yellow card.

van hooijdonk (i got it :D ) is now in, heitinga is out. so more offense now.

and overmars with a good shot, kahn with the save.

the game is getting better now. very entertaining.

2nd substitution germany:

goalscorer frings out, fabian ernst in.

ruuuuuuuuuuuuuud makes the 1-1 in the 81st minute. a very nice one.

phew...now it's interesting. both happy with the tie? i don't think so. germany now down? i don't think so.

the mistake on the goal was from fabian ernst. blame rudi for bringing him in. ;)

another mistake from ernst. a foul near the goal.

3rd substitution:

kuranyi out, bobic in. what a stupid thing.

kahn with a great save after a header by cocu.

i can't write as much as they're doing now. :)

game is over. a 1-1

and that's all from my live-tickering. now the dutch and german board-hools can discuss it to death. :D

kuranyi out, bobic in. what a stupid thing.

Wasn't he injured, though?

DAY FOUR
Holland vs. Germany 1-1 (Van Nistelrooy)
Czech Rep vs. Latvia 2-0 (Nedved)


jackpot! ;)

How can Ruud score that goal. I do not understand, that finish was just class so.

Best Game of the Tournament so far. I am very proud of the German side. After todays performances both sides should advance.

Wasn't he injured, though?

maybe a bit, but bringing bobic in is a joke. he shouldn't be in portugal at all.

Very entertaining game, you could really feel the importance of it. Great pressure and tempo, a pulsating affair and entertaining to watch even though there weren't clear cut chances all the time.

Germany couldn't keep it up for another 45 mins but that's not really their fault. Holland created pressure but once again they created no chances. If Ruud wouldn't have scored that fantastic goal, I think the EC woud've been all but over for Oranje. But what an absolutely amazing finish to that average cross!

Ballack and Lahm were the German standouts. Not really anyone really stood out for Holland, even though I thought Bouma did pretty well considering I was expecting at least one pathetic mistake of him. And Ruud did what he had to do of course.


And again, hats of to mr. Frisk!

Germany tied Holland 1-1, pretty good game overall and of course all these "incidents" with arms in your face and stuff, I guess these teams don't really love each other that much! :lol

But does anyone know why Holland was sporting a German flag next to the Dutch flag on their jerseys?

Day 4
Czech Republic 2 : 1 Latvia (M. Baros)
Germany 2 : 2 Holland (R. van Nistelrooy)

That's 15 points... :amazed:
33 points total.

Some pretty good games today, not amazing but interesting to watch. I thought Germany had it won until Ruud showed his class.

I think a tie was the correct score for the game. While definitely an interesting match to watch, Oranje sorely disappointed me.

I personally would be disgusted to see Advocaat back after this tournament:
*He is been changing the linup all the time. During qualifying already, then during the friendlies before the European Championship as well. After Ireland he states that the 'ruit' system doesn't work and will use wingers, only to change the system a day before the game. He has also kept reverting to a possible Kluivert-Ruud colaboration, even though that doesn't work. We need a guy with a vision, rather than a guy who constantly juggles his lineup.
*Starting a system where the feeding of the strikers largely depends on two wingers who aren't your best and horribly out of shape is begging for toruble and incredibly stupid.
*Not starting Wesley Sneijder who has been an offensive catalyst in each of the games he has played for Oranje is equally stupid.

Thank god Ruud showed his class though in the end...

But does anyone know why Holland was sporting a German flag next to the Dutch flag on their jerseys?

The Oranje shirts always display the game in which they were used, ie the Dutch flag and the flag of the opponent.

My thoughts on the game :

Holland :
- Van Der Sar misplayed the goal and he should take some blame.
- Cocu was unexpectedly shaky.
- Why is Advocaat putting Von Hoojdonk on the field when he has a more talented Kliuvert and a german knowledgable player in Makaay on the bench?
- Snjeider and Overmars played very well and provided a great boost (I'm usually an Overmars criticizer, but there he really put some effort and actually didn't lose many balls).
- Stam reminds me of Blanc without the offense. Though he wasn't his usual great tonight.
- Great play by VD Meyde to get the goal
- Van Der Wart was invisible except for his first half shot.
- Ruud had Worns on his back all game long. Really I know refs don't whistle for this kind of infraciton because otherwise they'd be 10 penalties a game, but Worns is just using it too much.

Germany :
- Lahm's inexperience was cruel on the dutch goal.
- Kahn was solid.
- Germany played a very, very impressive first half tactically.
- Schweinsteiger put some energy in Germany's game in the second half. Did a lot of good things.
- Kuranyi is a diver and a whiner. But he was hit pretty bad by Stam's foot right in the head.


A fair draw, and no less than 9 points for me on this game and 15 points for the day. 30 points total after the first set of game.

The announcer said it was Lahm who made the mistake on the Ruud goal.
Can anyone confirm it's him? Or was it Ernst?

The announcer said it was Lahm who made the mistake on the Ruud goal.
Can anyone confirm it's him? Or was it Ernst?

That's what the Germans said :)

and they do know their team better than our stupid french announcers...
So I scratch what I said about Lahm..
Sorry to him ;)

and they do know their team better than our stupid french announcers...
So I scratch what I said about Lahm..
Sorry to him ;)

you should instead giving lahm credit for a great game. he was 2nd best behind ballack.

and yes, it was ernst, who made two mistakes in the short time he played.

- Lahm's inexperience was cruel on the dutch goal.


Do not wanne be picky, but that was Ernst mistake before the goal. He lost the ball and let VDM put the ball in the box. :(

The rest of your analysis was spot on.

That woerns is not the cleanest of defenders is widley known, I personally do not trust his defending. Frisk let a lot go which helped the fluency of the game. Germany could possibly should have been awarded a pen when Stam kicked Kuranyi on the head.

I'm not sure it was intentionnal, so I don't think a penalty would have been right there.
In any case, I know Worns very well, as a PSG fan... ;)

I'm not sure it was intentionnal, so I don't think a penalty would have been right there.

intentional or not, it doesn't matter. his foot was way too high and he risked to hurt a player with his action.
but it was better not to give a penalty here, although stam couldn't complain then.

My grades:

6/10 for Van der Sar.. Not entirely to blame for the free kick, but who else was?
2/10 for van Bronckhorst.. He's horrible, he only increased my hatred for him..
8/10 for Stam.. A rock like usual, controlled the defense..
6/10 for Bouma.. Ok plays with a few missteps, though small ones. Exceptionally good late in the game.
7/10 John Heitinga.. Very pleased with his EK debute. Opponent never really got by him.
6/10 for Cocu.. Not as reliable, agree with Evilo, shaky at times..
7/10 for Davids.. Had Ballack in his pocket, supurb defensively, not as great offensively.
5/10 for van der Vaart..Usually made the safe play. Very feisty as usual but far from his potential.
8/10 for Sneijder.. Brought rest to the team, and provided scoring oppertunities. Also showed his supurb shot.
8/10 van der Meyde.. Great game on both ends, provided the winning assists and hussled.
5/10 Boudewijn Zenden.. Mwah.. expected more actually.
9/10 Overmars.. So freaking dangerous, always a threat. Made his opponent crazy.
6/10 van Nistelrooy.. Only needs one chance. Blame the system for not involving him as much..
7/10 van Hooijdonk.. Pinchhitter did his thing, was very dangerous for the minutes he saw.

Notes:

- Pierre van Hooijdonk is a supurb pinchhitter and an amazing free kick specialist. That's why he played before Kluivert and Makaay. He isn't much worse in general actually.

- Dick Advocaad made some utterly dumb substitutions. Substituting Davids?? Heitinga?? While playing van Bronckhorst?? Granted he played van Hooijdonk.

- Jaap Stam is FIFA's reigning defender of the year, and he showed why..

- Dutch always have poor starts to tournaments, this time was no exception. Their skill advantage didn't come through at all really.

- I am off the Ruud van Nistelrooy's bashing boat. He gives it all and I can't come up with a player that wants it more than him. The current system just isn't one where he can excel in.

- Germans played the first half like the Dutch played the second. No team deserved to win.

I think a tie was the correct score for the game. While definitely an interesting match to watch, Oranje sorely disappointed me.

I personally would be disgusted to see Advocaat back after this tournament:
*He is been changing the linup all the time. During qualifying already, then during the friendlies before the European Championship as well. After Ireland he states that the 'ruit' system doesn't work and will use wingers, only to change the system a day before the game. He has also kept reverting to a possible Kluivert-Ruud colaboration, even though that doesn't work. We need a guy with a vision, rather than a guy who constantly juggles his lineup.
*Starting a system where the feeding of the strikers largely depends on two wingers who aren't your best and horribly out of shape is begging for toruble and incredibly stupid.
*Not starting Wesley Sneijder who has been an offensive catalyst in each of the games he has played for Oranje is equally stupid.

Thank god Ruud showed his class though in the end...

The Oranje shirts always display the game in which they were used, ie the Dutch flag and the flag of the opponent.

Could. Not. Agree. With. You. More. Period.

Hiddink >>> Advocaad. Co Adriaanse was right when he said the Dutch won't win anything with him behind the bench.

Intense if not gorgeous game especially the second half. The dutch didn't look to turn up in the first one. I wonder if Davids transfer saga has been troubling him because if he was way below his standard tonight.
I was surprised by the germans first half. The played good short passes moving the ball around nicely.

In the second half I thought that the Van Hooijdonk's substitution was a very good one, he won all the headers as Holland reverts to a scottish type of play that Advocaat knows from his days at Rangers: long direct balls in the box. By being more direct to the german defense, it created pressure and it forced the mistake that lead to a marvelous striker's goal.

Overall I was a bit surprised by the fact that the dutch defense looked shaky at times. Twice Stam and Van der Sar were caught in indecisions together and this looks strange to me as they have played in the squad for so long. But this was only the first game and this can be fixed.
The Germans were good but faded as soon as Holland stepped up a gear.

After today's game I still think that one of those two teams will disappear from the tournament at the end of the group stage. The fixture list made a favour to Czech Republic and they can approach with confidence saturday's game against Holland.

BTW, I also forgot another dumb decision by Dick. Not playing Arjen Robben? WTF is up with that? He's easily our best wing, well 2nd best if Overmars continues to play like he should, but all in all, the Dutch played a weak game and still managed to tie, so there's plenty of hope left.. Dick just needs to get his act together..

Germans must have been amazed that Makaay was the 4th striker in rang today..

9 points for me tonight (1-1 and 3-0), bringing my total at 27 (18+9)..

My guess is Robben wasn't completely fit yet. I cannot imagine Advocaat being that stupid...

My guess is Robben wasn't completely fit yet. I cannot imagine Advocaat being that stupid...

He was.. Prior to the game Dicky stated that everyone with the exception of Seedorf was 100% fit. My guess is that he wanted to wait a lil longer to play Robben since he's so injury prone..

Well the game was worth waiting for. After the half I could hardly believe, what I was seeing. Germany played one of there best games in years. The defence was okay especially Friedrich (vs. Van Nistelrooy) and Lahm, who was also very effective on offense. Frings feat was unbelieveable. Nice shoot man. Overall I liked Kuranyi, since he was doing such a good job at protecting the ball. He himself said that he prefers a partner on attack, but I think that he played effective as a lone striker. Ballack was everywhere and together with Lahm and Kahn, the best German on the pitch. Olli saved the Germans twice with saves versus Cocu and Overmaas. Ernst :mad: I hope that this was your last game. I totally blame him for the Dutch goal.

The Germans owned the first and the Dutch mostly the 2nd half, but I still think that the Germans could have gotten away with the win. I would have taken Schneider off the pitch 10 min earlier, because during that time the Dutch increased the tempo and the German offense couldn't provide much relief.

I'm quite happy, relieved and drunk right now!

Nice start into the tournament.

I have a new wallpaper for today:
http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/XPD127061516_1024x768.jpg

Do not wanne be picky, but that was Ernst mistake before the goal. He lost the ball and let VDM put the ball in the box. :(

The rest of your analysis was spot on.

That woerns is not the cleanest of defenders is widley known, I personally do not trust his defending. Frisk let a lot go which helped the fluency of the game. Germany could possibly should have been awarded a pen when Stam kicked Kuranyi on the head.

On the kick to the head, that would be an indirect free kick from the spot of the foul (like in the Sweden - Bulgaria match). Definately not a penalty though, though it probably should have been the aforemenioned indirect kick.

:handclap:

Good game for Germany, funny how everyone said they would get killed...

Beautiful Volley by Holland, still dosent beat the Larsson goal!!!!






go sverige go!

Beautiful Volley by Holland, still dosent beat the Larsson goal!!!!
I agree with Van that Ruud's goal was probably more difficult to make. Larsson's was more beautiful to watch though.

I agree with Van that Ruud's goal was probably more difficult to make. Larsson's was more beautiful to watch though.
yea your right

On the kick to the head, that would be an indirect free kick from the spot of the foul (like in the Sweden - Bulgaria match). Definately not a penalty though, though it probably should have been the aforemenioned indirect kick.

you're totally wrong. the ref in the sweden game made a brutal mistake. it's an indirect free kick if the leg is just too high. but if the opponent is touched by it, it is a direct free-kick, therefore a penalty in this situation.
i'm pretty sure the english ref in the swedish game won't get a game after the group stage. it was a brutal mistake, because he showed that he has seen the foul, because he showed yellow, what means he has seen the touch.

5/10 Van der Sar..That kind of free-kicks are always difficult for a goalie but I still blame him for 50%.
5/10 Van Bronckhorst..Was suprisingly a lot involved in plays yesterday. Made many bad plays but also some good ones. His overall performance wasn't good though, more is expected from him.
8/10 Stam..One clear mistake, for the rest a good match.
6/10 Bouma..I think Bouma played a solid match with a few bad in interceptions here and there.
7/10 John Heitinga..Best match from him in the Dutch team so far, although he wasn't as much as involved as van Bronckhorst, so that's speaks in his advantage. Didn't do much offensively but did what he had to do defensively.
5/10 Cocu..Was often a step too late. Made some bad decisions, something you wouldn't expect from him. I don't understand the "shaky comments" because his play WITHOUT the ball was especially bad yesterday.
5/10 Davids..Lots of devotion but way too agitated. Was running with ball like a headless chicken which quite often resulted in losing the ball.
4/10 Van der Vaart..Invisible. Ballack played the same position like him and was four times the player Van der Vaart was.
7/10 Sneijder..Brought at least some organization to the team. His substitute was a good one.
3/10 Van der Meyde..Played plain awful. Worked very hard but his assist was the only good thing of the night.
3/10 Boudewijn Zenden..He annoyed me. As if he thought it was a training match yesterday. No tempo, a bit arrogant, wrong passes. Too much too mention.
7/10 Overmars..Another good substitute. Provided speed and even some good defensive plays.
5/10 Van Nistelrooy..Didn't get much supply, that need to be said, but the moments he had the ball he was way too restless. Worked hard but you would expect more of a player like him. Thank God, he scored that terrific goal.
8/10 Van Hooijdonk..Best subsitute of the evening. Won almost every duel in the air and caused a lot of trouble and uncertainty in the German defense. You have to play opportunistic when passing doesn't work, that's why Dick brought Pierre.

Notes:

- Best player on the pitch. Michael Ballack.

- Overall, I was very dissapointed with the Dutch play. Something need to be done in the next upcoming days.

- I would advise both Advocaat and Voller not to wear blue shirts the next time.

- I think nobody deserved more than a draw. Germany was the best team in the first half but the Dutch owed the second half, although the Germans had some dangerous counters.

3/10 Van der Meyde..Played plain awful. Worked very hard but his assist was the only good thing of the night.


Agreed here, I was surprised to see M=G give him such high grades, maybe his Ajax past has something to do with that ;).

VDM had an awful game, didn't get past his man but for one occasion, and looked like a frustrated little **** througout the game. Very, very poor game by Andy.

I think the next match Advocaat should go with Robben on the left and Overmars on the right flank.

Agreed here, I was surprised to see M=G give him such a high grade.

My thoughts exactly. One of us must have seen a totally different game. ;)

Agreed here, I was surprised to see M=G give him such high grades, maybe his Ajax past has something to do with that ;).

VDM had an awful game, didn't get past his man but for one occasion, and looked like a frustrated little **** througout the game. Very, very poor game by Andy.

I think the next match Advocaat should go with Robben on the left and Overmars on the right flank.

I am not high on Andy at all, I thought he played better than he usually does. He was feisty and provided the winning cross, that should count for something. Wasn't afraid to experiment either.. But hell yeah he should go with Robben saterday..

Czech Rep. 4-0 Latvia (Nedved)

Germany 1-2 Holland (Davids)

Well Vanny, it looks like your Dutch fell short to the mighty Germans. They did manage a tie, so they must have a talented team. :banana: :jump: :D :jump: :banana:

Well Vanny, it looks like your Dutch fell short to the mighty Germans. They did manage a tie, so they must have a talented team. :banana: :jump: :D :jump: :banana:

Are you hear to troll or are you planning to add something substantial to this topic in the not so distant future?

I just caught the 2nd half of Latvia/Czech game. I wonder how Latvia even scored a goal :dunno: The half that I seen was solely played in latvia's half. All Latvia could do was kick it away and hope for a break. Czech Rep. could have won 7-1 in my books (only judging) from the 2nd half). They were totally pressuring but had No Finish . They just couldn't finish their oppurtunities. If they wanna get far in this tourney the must learn to finish and their crosses were oh so damn ugly :dunno:

Too bad I'm missing most of this Euro due to work .

and oh yeah, I MISSED Neth/Germ. game :cry: Probablyl one of the best matchups. :shakehead Damn work!!!

On the kick to the head, that would be an indirect free kick from the spot of the foul (like in the Sweden - Bulgaria match). Definately not a penalty though, though it probably should have been the aforemenioned indirect kick.

Whats a Sens fan know about football? :lol

Just kidding with ya :joker:

Here's an interesting tidbit I caught Kahn saying.. He said that this was Germany's best game in ages. Which only bodes well for the Dutch who quite possibly played their worst game in ages, hell, they didn't play much worse against Belgium or Ireland.

Well Vanny, it looks like your Dutch fell short to the mighty Germans. They did manage a tie, so they must have a talented team.

Did you even see the game?

Because, if you would have seen it you wouldn't say this s***. I still feel that Ernst allowed the Dutch to escape with a draw.

In the past I've always wanted that Rudi takes him on the squad. Nevermind Rudi, I was totally off. I don't want that Fabian Ernst plays any more minutes. :banghead:

Here's an interesting tidbit I caught Kahn saying.. He said that this was Germany's best game in ages. Which only bodes well for the Dutch who quite possibly played their worst game in ages, hell, they didn't play much worse against Belgium or Ireland.
First off Kahn is 100%. Your second sentence makes no sense. Are you already having Mary Jane for breakfast? :joker:

j/k

Did you even see the game?

Because, if you would have seen it you wouldn't say this s***. I still feel that Ernst allowed the Dutch to escape with a draw.

In the past I've always wanted that Rudi takes him on the squad. Nevermind Rudi, I was totally off. I don't want that Fabian Ernst plays any more minutes. :banghead:

You're being way too hard on Ersnt, he did everything right on van der Meyde's cross, he forced Ruud in an extremely and nearly impossible position to score from, but Ruud wouldn't be Ruud if he managed to touch it and even get it on target.

Here's an interesting tidbit I caught Kahn saying.. He said that this was Germany's best game in ages. Which only bodes well for the Dutch who quite possibly played their worst game in ages, hell, they didn't play much worse against Belgium or Ireland.

Yeah, but Holland was bad in the first half due to the good tactical setup of Germany.

Every time Holland had the ball, the Germans immediatly pressured the defense with Kuranyi and Ballack not far behind. That way they forced Stam, Bouma and co into using the long ball very often, and with only Ruud as a good header up front, it mean Oranje never really could do much with their posessions.

And if Oranje did get through to the midfield, there was always the double buffer of Hamann and Baumann who mad it impossible for Davids and VDV to get anything going in the centre.

Finally, when the ball was played to the flanks, a double cover was waiting, preventing crosses to Ruud. Every time either VDM or Zenden (or V Bronckhorst) touched the ball, there was the midfielder (either the midfielder of the flank or one of the two central ones) attacking those guys with the full-back slightly behind him. And it's very difficult to pass two Germans...

The only solution to that defensive setup is quick transition and passing and very good movement off the ball by all players involved. Holland never got any quick passing going the first half.


If you compare that to the second half, the pressure on the defense was much less, and the holes in midfield weren't always plugged anymore. Secondly the 'rebounds' of long passes all fel in Dutch feet because Germany was going back too deep (combination of getting tired and a psychological thing when you're in front)
That allowed Holland to start passing better and get some confidence, and ultimately the goal.

You're being way too hard on Ersnt, he did everything right on van der Meyde's cross, he forced Ruud in an extremely and nearly impossible position to score from, but Ruud wouldn't be Ruud if he managed to touch it and even get it on target.
:blush:


Ernst was the fellow who had the ball until it was snatched away by Van der Meyde and Christian Worns was Ruud's opponent.

In the past I've always wanted that Rudi takes him on the squad. Nevermind Rudi, I was totally off. I don't want that Fabian Ernst plays any more minutes. :banghead:
So you want to throw a player out of your national team because of one mistake? Every player makes mistakes (even Kahn has), but Ernst has played a great season and therefore deserves another chance.

:blush:


Ernst was the fellow who had the ball until it was snatched away by Van der Meyde and Christian Worns was Ruud's opponent.

Ah.. they all look the same. No seriously, I went crazy when they scored, didn't pay attention what really happened anyhow.

You're being way too hard on Ersnt, he did everything right on van der Meyde's cross, he forced Ruud in an extremely and nearly impossible position to score from, but Ruud wouldn't be Ruud if he managed to touch it and even get it on target.

Both players went towards the corner and Ernst failed to kick the ball away or to play it over the line. You got a little confused. Wörns was with Ruud and not Ernst.

Strizzi, his mistake have costed the Germans 2 points and those could be decisive in the end.

He is correct that was poor defending by ernst. The dutch were very lucky to get a point if you ask me. Think advocaats formation was very bizarre. Couldnt quite understand how he picked Zenden over Overmars. Didnt think much of heitinga either think they should have gone with experience and used reiziger in such a big game!

The main concern for me would be how isolated ruud v nistelrooy was. VDM and VDV didn t get close enough to him to get the knock downs or the ball. If you defend like that versus the czechs at corners and freekicks you will be in trouble with Nedved and Koller around!

Best Game of the Tournament so far.
:(
I am very proud of the German side. After todays performances both sides should advance
:shakehead

My grades:

6/10 for Van der Sar.. Not entirely to blame for the free kick, but who else was?
8/10 for Stam.. A rock like usual, controlled the defense..
7/10 for Davids.. Had Ballack in his pocket, supurb defensively, not as great offensively.
8/10 for Sneijder.. Brought rest to the team, and provided scoring oppertunities. Also showed his supurb shot.
8/10 van der Meyde.. Great game on both ends, provided the winning assists and hussled.
9/10 Overmars.. So freaking dangerous, always a threat. Made his opponent crazy.

:joker:
What the hell!! Which game have you seen????
Well, these are very surprising grades by you.

Great "Flo passes" by the Dutch squad yesterday. Have you finally learned something from Drillo? The best and fastest way to get the ball forward is long passing! :handclap:

:joker:
What the hell!! Which game have you seen????
Well, these are very surprising grades by you.

Davids was supurb on Ballack, he never created much. Offensively, Davids was weak.

I admit, the grade for Andy was way too high, more like a 5..

Overmars IMO was the Dutch best player in the 2nd half..

Offensively, Davids was weak.

I admit, the grade for Andy was way too high, more like a 5..

Overmars IMO was the Dutch best player in the 2nd half..
I can live these comments.. :)

you're totally wrong. the ref in the sweden game made a brutal mistake. it's an indirect free kick if the leg is just too high. but if the opponent is touched by it, it is a direct free-kick, therefore a penalty in this situation.
i'm pretty sure the english ref in the swedish game won't get a game after the group stage. it was a brutal mistake, because he showed that he has seen the foul, because he showed yellow, what means he has seen the touch.

You sure on that? Dangerous play (high boot) is always indirect. Since (especially in the Sweden case) the defender got the ball, before striking the oponent in the head with his foot, it would be considered "dangerous play", and not a "kick", just as if a succesful tackle is carried out, it is not a "kick", even if a kicking motion is used. I would have called it as the referee did, as I reserve a "kick" for a clear and deliberate kicking action.