ESPN's top 15 most tortured sports cities [Archive]

ObeySteve

06-06-2004, 08:09 AM

My bad, I forgot completely about Buffalo.

By the way, before you guys jump to the conclusion that the Bills 4-year run will put Buffalo in the #1 spot, take a look at Philadelphia's profile:

-Eagles lose 3 straight NFC championships, being heavy favorite in 2 of the 3
-Smarty Jones, America's horse, bred in the Philadelphia area, loses the last leg of the Belmont by 1 length in his improbable bid to win the Triple Crown
-The Phillies win just 1 championship in their 114 year history
-The Flyers go on to have more wins than any other expansion team since 67, but going on lose 5 straight finals appearances

Most importantly:
-Philadelphia has gone 21 years and counting without a pro sports championship, the longest streak by a city with at least 4 pro teams by far

There are so many other various things that have contributed to the extreme pessimism of the Philadelphia area. Everything about the negative reputation Philadelphians have could easily be traced back by a psychologist to the history of being the loser city of sports for well over a century.

BubbaBoot

06-06-2004, 09:19 AM

Okay so they DID skip this week?

Buffalo and Cleveland are the only two possible winners. Since this is so baseball centric I'm sure Chicago is in just like Boston (regardless of the Bulls and Celts)
The Celts haven't won a championship in nearly 20 years.
The Bruins (sigh*) since 1972.
Despite the Pats popularity and Super Bowl wins, (and despite the Revs & Breakers good fortunes over the last two years, soccer is a distant fifth in popularity), the Red Sox rule this region.

1918, Pesky holds the ball, Bob Gibson, Bucky "$$#$@!@@#$" Dent, Buckner, Willoughby, Grady Little, the Yankees, etc....

For anyone outside of the region, you have no idea. There's generations of miserable ******** who've learned well from their fathers on the fine art of vitriolic pissing and moaning when it comes to the Red Sox.

I'm not 100% sold on Philly though.
It's got to be Buffalo. Philly has had some decent runs with the Flyers, Phillies and Sixers....
Buffalo is just the whipping boy pf pro sports I'd say....always a close but no cigar scenario.

Hasbro

06-06-2004, 04:51 PM

For anyone outside of the region, you have no idea. There's generations of miserable ******** who've learned well from their fathers on the fine art of vitriolic pissing and moaning when it comes to the Red Sox.Oh I've got a rough idea. I was plesantly surprised to get through the articles without hearing about Buckner again. Is it just me or are 75% of sports writters from beantown?

This is all Buffalo vs Cleveland. I'm kind of rooting for Cleveland to be number one since Denver inflicted alot of the pain in question.

I can see St. Louis and Denver being just as valid choices as Philly. If this were before 1996 I'd say Denver should be in the top 3.

ObeySteve

06-06-2004, 06:32 PM

TVanek26*

06-06-2004, 07:21 PM

What's your reasoning for Philadelphia not being in the ranks of Cleveland and Buffalo?

Cleveland and Buffalo have simply had loser teams decade after decade. Philadelphia has had so many teams that have come close, been the darlings of the sports media, and then blown it when it mattered most. That's why it's the #1 most tortured sports city.

Any sports fan will tell you that it's easier to gut a team that goes 62-100 in baseball or having a 65 point NHL team than it is to have a team losing in Game 7 of the SCF multiple times or the NFC championship.

First of all you're a moron if you think losing multiple NFC championships is worse then losing 4 straight Super Bowls.I don't get where Philly is always close,Buffalo has had numerous chances to win and lost them all...but fine, if you want the title of most tortured sport city, then it's all yours.

ObeySteve

06-06-2004, 07:54 PM

I'm simply trying to prove that Philadelphia is an easy top 2 pick, and should definitely be considered for the #1 spot. It's not just limited to the NFC championship losses. It's Smarty losing the Belmont by half a length. It's having the hockey franchise that spends big and simply can't win the big prize. It's losing your city's superstars to freak deaths. It's being the only city with a team in every pro sport, and none of them ever coming through.

But that's fine, I'll gladly take the #1 spot. At least it'll mean we've won something since Carter was trying to rescue hostages from Iran.

Hasbro

06-06-2004, 08:27 PM

As for getting votes Philly hasn't done much to curry favor with anyone. I'd give a top ten slot for having to watch games at the Vet if it weren't the fans who were making the place so awful in the first place.

ObeySteve

06-07-2004, 09:38 AM

Well, at least you just proved your opinion is biased against Philly anyway, rendering your opinion pointless.

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 10:33 AM

Well, at least you just proved your opinion is biased against Philly anyway, rendering your opinion pointless.
And we know bias NEVER enters these polls. I think the fact so much of ESPN's reportage comes out of the Northeast and Boston vs. New York is the biggest story of the basball season proves that personal biasies are entering into the story. Hell the top ten list are all personal stories.

As a group Philly fans are only more sympathetic than Raider Nation.

And despite finishing strong I will stack up Denver's suffering against just about anyone, but Buffalo and Cleveland.

JCD

06-07-2004, 10:53 AM

JCD

06-07-2004, 10:56 AM

4. Chicago 3. Cleveland 2. Buffalo 1. Philadelphia

Lets cross off Chicago with two words: Da Bulls.

I think six championships certainly eases some of their torture, don't you?

Takeo

06-07-2004, 10:58 AM

Lets cross off Chicago with two words: Da Bulls.

I think six championships certainly eases some of their torture, don't you?

Yes, although ESPN is pro-baseball so I could see them justifying the selection based on the Cubbies alone.

JCD

06-07-2004, 11:03 AM

Yes, although ESPN is pro-baseball so I could see them justifying the selection based on the Cubbies alone.

Bears won a Superbowl in the 80's, Bulls dominated the 90's. Chicago has won something every decade. 7 Championships in a 20 year span. Even though the Cubs struggled, the other teams carry them bye.

Putting them alongside the likes of Philly (nothing in 20+ years), Buffalo (have they ever won anything?) or Cleveland just doesn't make sense.

One other city not listed, what of New Orleans? The 'Aints were (are?) a mockey and I can't recall any period of notable success for sports teams there. That said, I don't follow much outside my few sports so could be overlooking something obvious.

Takeo

06-07-2004, 11:05 AM

Bears won a Superbowl in the 80's, Bulls dominated the 90's. Chicago has won something every decade. 7 Championships in a 20 year span. Even though the Cubs struggled, the other teams carry them bye.

Putting them alongside the likes of Philly (nothing in 20+ years), Buffalo (have they ever won anything?) or Cleveland just doesn't make sense.

I completely agree. I'm just saying I could see ESPN doing it. What order do you think Buffalo and Philly will fall in?

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 11:18 AM

Um................

Denver?

Wait, did you say.... Denver?

DENVER?!?!?!

Good friggen lord. What more do you want?

TWO Superbowls and TWO Stanley Cups in the last ten years.

That is FOUR more championships than everyone else in the top-10 combined.

No, there is absolutely no sympathy for those poor tortured souls in Denver.Like I said if this was before 1996 we'd be in the #3 slot easy. We've had a great run, but I submit.

1)Four Super Bowl Blowouts
2)Dan Revves "offence" and "drafting" (that man ruined my childhood.)
3)Two years of Wade Phillups (can I get a witness from Buffalo?)
4)Three strait FB coaching regimes to scandalize CU.
5)The Nuggets! Alienated anyone popular from the franchise in the 80's, sucked, built a promising team, promptly blew that up, sucked some more and are only now beging to pull out of 12 years of hell.
6)The Rockies pitching staff is a national laughing stock. The ownership gave up in as many words and won't fire Dan O'Dowd. Stan Kronke won't touch the team for at least wo years.
7)Plenty of Avs heartbreakers and shenanagans with the Wings.
8)CU's National title being marred by a split vote (thanks Osbourne!) and the 5th down.
9)Losing the Winter Olympics
10)Mass migration of fans from other cities. Really makes for a contentious enviroment.
11)DU's 34 year title drought.

The Pats have two Super Bowls and the Celts three in the 80's and they made the list. If chicago makes it the Bulls six will out weigh us. So thats less than INDIVIDUAL members of the top ten (potentialy on Chicago, but we know it's coming.)

I'm thankful for the last few year, but it's been a LOOOONNNNGGG road getting there. I know when the Avs won the Cup in 96 that was the longest a city had been competing in Big Four sports without a title (winning period, not just a first.) I remember being in the car and my best friend saying he never thought it would happen in his life time.

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 11:24 AM

One other city not listed, what of New Orleans? The 'Aints were (are?) a mockey and I can't recall any period of notable success for sports teams there. That said, I don't follow much outside my few sports so could be overlooking something obvious.The aints were a dominant regular season team in the late 80's, but ALWAYS choked in the playoffs. Their first post season win came under hasslet a couple of years ago. However between that and losing the Jazz there isn't much to work on being a one team town and all.

ObeySteve

06-07-2004, 12:07 PM

One other city not listed, what of New Orleans? The 'Aints were (are?) a mockey and I can't recall any period of notable success for sports teams there. That said, I don't follow much outside my few sports so could be overlooking something obvious.

Well, New Orleans only had one pro team up until 2 years ago. They haven't had enough teams to measure the amount of pain their fans have had to go through.

By the way...as for Chicago, you're also forgetting that the Blackhawks have been the embarassment of the NHL for over 4 decades now.

It's pretty much a gaurantee #4 will be either Chicago or St Louis.

nordique

06-07-2004, 12:54 PM

Like I said if this was before 1996 we'd be in the #3 slot easy. We've had a great run, but I submit.

1)Four Super Bowl Blowouts
2)Dan Revves "offence" and "drafting" (that man ruined my childhood.)
3)Two years of Wade Phillups (can I get a witness from Buffalo?)
4)Three strait FB coaching regimes to scandalize CU.
5)The Nuggets! Alienated anyone popular from the franchise in the 80's, sucked, built a promising team, promptly blew that up, sucked some more and are only now beging to pull out of 12 years of hell.
6)The Rockies pitching staff is a national laughing stock. The ownership gave up in as many words and won't fire Dan O'Dowd. Stan Kronke won't touch the team for at least wo years.
7)Plenty of Avs heartbreakers and shenanagans with the Wings.
8)CU's National title being marred by a split vote (thanks Osbourne!) and the 5th down.
9)Losing the Winter Olympics
10)Mass migration of fans from other cities. Really makes for a contentious enviroment.
11)DU's 34 year title drought.

1. Agreed.

2. You had a bad coach who drafted poorly? You and about 70 other professional sports franchises. Reeves is one of the winningest coaches of all time so it couldn't have been that horrible.

3. Two years of Wade Phillips makes you tortured? Give me a break. Wade Phillips-type guys come and go in all sports. In football alone, he pales compared to the Rich Kotites and Marty Morninwhegs of the world. Did Phillips ever load his team with players from his old university or elect to take the wind on a coin toss in overtime?

4. Yeah, the McCartney-Neuheisel-Barnett trio has been rough, but we're mostly talkin' pro sports here.

5. The Nuggets were never good enough to really torture anybody. Their uniforms were more torturous than their play. Besides, you milked the Mutombo-over-Sonics thing forever, ask anyone in Seattle.

6. Coors Field has all kinds of attendance records and you get to watch a bazillion homers every game. Not so horrible.

7. Yeah, those heartbreaking perennially contending Avs. What, if they don't win it all every season it's a heartbreaker?

8. The 5th down was brutal for sure. However, see #4

9. Denver was gonna get the Winter Olympics? When was that?

10. Huh?

11. DU's drought in what? There's even a DU?

JCD

06-07-2004, 12:59 PM

Well, New Orleans only had one pro team up until 2 years ago. They haven't had enough teams to measure the amount of pain their fans have had to go through.

By the way...as for Chicago, you're also forgetting that the Blackhawks have been the embarassment of the NHL for over 4 decades now.

It's pretty much a gaurantee #4 will be either Chicago or St Louis.

Huh?

Blackhawks were a powerhouse in the 90's. Belfour, Chelios and Roenick took them to a Stanley Cup even. From 1970 to 1997, they made the play-offs.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/teamseasons.php?tid=35

Did they win a Cup? No. But they were not an embarrassment. The Blackhawks being mediocre doesn't make up for the other teams. Bulls balance out the Cubs. Blackhawks and Bears have been disappointing, but hardly torturous.

JCD

06-07-2004, 01:01 PM

I completely agree. I'm just saying I could see ESPN doing it. What order do you think Buffalo and Philly will fall in?

I think Buffalo is #1. More heartbreak than any other city bar none.

Philly is could be as high as #2, but I honestly don't know how bad some of the others have had it to be fair.

JCD

06-07-2004, 01:03 PM

The aints were a dominant regular season team in the late 80's, but ALWAYS choked in the playoffs. Their first post season win came under hasslet a couple of years ago. However between that and losing the Jazz there isn't much to work on being a one team town and all.

Having ONE post-season victory in franchise history has to account for something.

Being a 2-horse town didn't stop others from being listed.

What about college sports? They factor in? Has New Orleans done anything in the NCAA?

JCD

06-07-2004, 01:06 PM

Like I said if this was before 1996 we'd be in the #3 slot easy. We've had a great run, but I submit.

1)Four Super Bowl Blowouts
2)Dan Revves "offence" and "drafting" (that man ruined my childhood.)
3)Two years of Wade Phillups (can I get a witness from Buffalo?)
4)Three strait FB coaching regimes to scandalize CU.
5)The Nuggets! Alienated anyone popular from the franchise in the 80's, sucked, built a promising team, promptly blew that up, sucked some more and are only now beging to pull out of 12 years of hell.
6)The Rockies pitching staff is a national laughing stock. The ownership gave up in as many words and won't fire Dan O'Dowd. Stan Kronke won't touch the team for at least wo years.
7)Plenty of Avs heartbreakers and shenanagans with the Wings.
8)CU's National title being marred by a split vote (thanks Osbourne!) and the 5th down.
9)Losing the Winter Olympics
10)Mass migration of fans from other cities. Really makes for a contentious enviroment.
11)DU's 34 year title drought.

The Pats have two Super Bowls and the Celts three in the 80's and they made the list. If chicago makes it the Bulls six will out weigh us. So thats less than INDIVIDUAL members of the top ten (potentialy on Chicago, but we know it's coming.)

I'm thankful for the last few year, but it's been a LOOOONNNNGGG road getting there. I know when the Avs won the Cup in 96 that was the longest a city had been competing in Big Four sports without a title (winning period, not just a first.) I remember being in the car and my best friend saying he never thought it would happen in his life time.

It was a long road getting there, but the point is YOU HAVE GOTTEN THERE!!!!!.

The other guys are still sitting where you were back in the early 90's.

Again, you will be hard pressed to find anybody sympathetic to the poor plight of Denver.

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 01:09 PM

Having ONE post-season victory in franchise history has to account for something.

Being a 2-horse town didn't stop others from being listed.

What about college sports? They factor in? Has New Orleans done anything in the NCAA?
Oh yeah I have family who are Who Dats?!, but Tampa's easily comprable and finnished rather low. Just not enough teams. Lossing the Jazz and Pistol pete's death, but filling out eight more slots of Saints' losses would get redundant.

JCD

06-07-2004, 01:46 PM

Oh yeah I have family who are Who Dats?!, but Tampa's easily comprable and finnished rather low. Just not enough teams. Lossing the Jazz and Pistol pete's death, but filling out eight more slots of Saints' losses would get redundant.

I think TB gets bumped up because:
1) The recently won a Super Bowl (though so did the Patriots....)
2) Didn't the Devil Rays recently win a World Series? (I knew one of the expansion teams did, then dismantled).

The Bucs were the picture of incompetent football for much of their early existance, so that carries over despite early success. I think that lingers over to modern times like the Curse does for the Red Sox.

I digress, you are right. New Orleans is a relative small fry compared to Philly or Buffalo. I am just trying to pin down who that 4th team is.

Maybe Toronto? I don't know if the CFL is factoring in, but MBL and NHL have not done jack in generations.

Oakland? It has been eons since they won a SuperBowl. I don't think the Athletics have not done much of anything either.

ObeySteve

06-07-2004, 01:57 PM

It's not Toronto, even though it could possibly be a feasible answer. ESPN isn't going to include a Canadian city.

The 4th city is either St Louis or Chicago.

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 01:58 PM

1. Agreed.

2. You had a bad coach who drafted poorly? You and about 70 other professional sports franchises. Reeves is one of the winningest coaches of all time so it couldn't have been that horrible.

3. Two years of Wade Phillips makes you tortured? Give me a break. Wade Phillips-type guys come and go in all sports. In football alone, he pales compared to the Rich Kotites and Marty Morninwhegs of the world. Did Phillips ever load his team with players from his old university or elect to take the wind on a coin toss in overtime?

4. Yeah, the McCartney-Neuheisel-Barnett trio has been rough, but we're mostly talkin' pro sports here.

5. The Nuggets were never good enough to really torture anybody. Their uniforms were more torturous than their play. Besides, you milked the Mutombo-over-Sonics thing forever, ask anyone in Seattle.

6. Coors Field has all kinds of attendance records and you get to watch a bazillion homers every game. Not so horrible.

7. Yeah, those heartbreaking perennially contending Avs. What, if they don't win it all every season it's a heartbreaker?

8. The 5th down was brutal for sure. However, see #4

9. Denver was gonna get the Winter Olympics? When was that?

10. Huh?

11. DU's drought in what? There's even a DU?2)He wasn't a disaster, it was that he was so agressively medicore. He racked up alot of wins, but alot we're thanks to Elway bailing him out on comeback drives.

His O was like being stuck behind a blue hair on the free way while driving a Ferrari. He insisted on running Sammy Mud Walker Winder up the Middle every 1st and 2nd and only then letting Elway pass. Never got Elway good recievers or O-line (he's a great scrambler yet the most sacked QB in history.) One draft decision that sticks out Tommy Madox. Indifferent to the point of neglegent on special teams. And the only record of his we care about is 0-3. It was rather cathartic having the Broncos beat the living **** in XXXIII

3) SOn of Bum was proof of the Peter Principal. He didn't go for a two point conversion that would have won a preseason game and instead kicked and went to overtime versus the Raiders, in 100 degree heat in Barcelona. He lost the team from there.

4) You could also add the sketchy hiring of chuck Fairbanks and his disasterous reign. CU lost to Oklahoma 87-0? about then. CU football is pretty important and a big story RIGHT NOW. Being held up as the ills of the world is not fun.

5)The Nuggets were a great team in the ABA the 70's and throughout the 80's (and alot of fun.) The last decade and a half wiped David Thompson, Alex English, Dan Issel as something other than a racist and Doug moe's bad suits, foul mouth and fugly suits out of people's memory. 1994 seems like ancienthistory

6)Trust me it gets old after a while. It's a great stadium and revitalized LoDo, but now... and it was such a struggle to get baseball to begin with. We were the designated tease city for every team looking for a better stadium. In the mid-seveties the A's were a hair from moving here one year the AL had two schedules in case they did. The league blocked the sale though. Alot of the Rockies original ownership proptly went to jail.

7) Well I've got to listen to Boston losing world sries and Playoffs and all these finals losses. The Avs have three Gane 7 losses in the western conference finals. That show trial in Detroit.

8)I thought I posted this, but losing the original Rockies wasn't all that fun.

9)1976. The city won an olympic bid and tax issues forced them to relocate the games. In the long run it was probably a good thing for the country, because I'm sure Lake Placid wouldn't have got the games in 80 then.

10)Over the last decade the state has grown by a million which accounts for about 25% of the population. There was a huge migration in the 70's too (when I came.) Lots of Californians, Texans, Michiganders, Nebraskans, so our rivalries are intensified by the fact we have a readymade faction of fans whenever there is a big game here. I'm the son of a Raider fan, my whole crew in college were Wings fans, and my sister married into Nebraskans. Whenever one of our teams losses a big game it's brutal because we have to hear crap from somebody. And of course we have our state taken over by fans so loyal they fled the hellholes they were living in. It's because of this I have to hear I don't know the color of the blue line and I think the NHL started in 1995, which brings me to...

11) University of Denver hockey. They just won the Frozen Four this spring. first time since 1969. I know ESPN won't blink an eye about that, but they are and have always been a huge deal in south Denver. If you want to add Colorado College (in the near-by Springs) they haven't won since 1957 and had obscenly long tourney drought before returning in 1996 (lost the title game in OT to Michigan.)

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 02:01 PM

I think TB gets bumped up because:
1) The recently won a Super Bowl (though so did the Patriots....)
2) Didn't the Devil Rays recently win a World Series? (I knew one of the expansion teams did, then dismantled).

The Bucs were the picture of incompetent football for much of their early existance, so that carries over despite early success. I think that lingers over to modern times like the Curse does for the Red Sox.

I digress, you are right. New Orleans is a relative small fry compared to Philly or Buffalo. I am just trying to pin down who that 4th team is.

Maybe Toronto? I don't know if the CFL is factoring in, but MBL and NHL have not done jack in generations.

Oakland? It has been eons since they won a SuperBowl. I don't think the Athletics have not done much of anything either.
That was the D-Backs. The D-Rays are just a long history of suck and before that the Dome sat vacant for awhile.

Hasbro

06-07-2004, 02:08 PM

It was a long road getting there, but the point is YOU HAVE GOTTEN THERE!!!!!.

The other guys are still sitting where you were back in the early 90's.

Again, you will be hard pressed to find anybody sympathetic to the poor plight of Denver.
Like alot of other cities on this list. I'm just saying we should probably get some credit for time served.

And we do feel disrespected, only THIS summer the first Bronco is going into Canton. Elway wasn't voted onto the greatest 100 Athletes list (George Balnda was more deserving.) When Terrel Davis retired a bunch of national columnists came out of the woodwork saying how the Canton PD should shoot him on sight (I'm exagrerating a bit.) And all of the disrespect heaped on our hockey fans.

ObeySteve

06-08-2004, 07:55 AM

Did you guys catch Cold Pizza this morning? I missed it and want to know who the #4 city was.

Hasbro

06-08-2004, 09:03 AM

Did you guys catch Cold Pizza this morning? I missed it and want to know who the #4 city was.
Chicago, but the link isn't working on Page 2 yet.

ObeySteve

06-08-2004, 09:27 AM

Well, we've already proven JCD wrong on that one....should be interesting to see if I do get all 4 right in order.

By the way:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tortured/chicago

Next Wednesday morning for #3? Are they implying tomorrow, or the 16th?

Takeo

06-08-2004, 10:07 AM

Well, we've already proven JCD wrong on that one....should be interesting to see if I do get all 4 right in order.

You left Buffalo out didn't you? You got no shot.

ObeySteve

06-08-2004, 10:08 AM

You left Buffalo out didn't you? You got no shot.

In my original post I did, but I mentioned they would be the #2 city right after I realized that.

Hasbro

06-08-2004, 10:20 AM

Would have been nice to get the disputed city out of the way.

The article is nice, focuses on the ChiSox and not all the Cubs stories we've heard a million times and the list admits Chicago used to love the Blackhawks.

Hey Takeo21 care to back me up on Wade Phillups?

ObeySteve

06-16-2004, 09:19 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tortured/buffalo

Philly may have just clinched the #1 spot now.

Hasbro

06-16-2004, 09:33 AM

Stupid ESPN, it would be nice if they would settle the arguement. Anyone know who's doing the selection? The voting roll would probably tip us off.

Takeo

06-16-2004, 09:35 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tortured/buffalo

Philly may have just clinched the #1 spot now.

Read that friggin link! There is NO WAY Buffalo can be topped. We got robbed! :joker:

ObeySteve

06-16-2004, 09:39 AM

I think in the end, they are probably taking into account that there are a lot more people in the Philadelphia and Cleveland areas than Buffalo, as well as more pro teams in those cities.

By the way, don't think any certain ESPN people would favor putting Philadelphia at the top. The only person I've ever seen on ESPN that sympathizes for the city is Sal Paolantonio, and that only being because he's a native Philadelphian.

Hasbro

06-16-2004, 09:48 AM

Anyone know who's deciding this thing? I can only think of two people from Buffalo on ESPN.com, meanwhile half their writers have to have Boston ties. Maybe this is getting inadvertantly gerrymandered.

ObeySteve, how's Morganti's tone on Philly?

ObeySteve

06-16-2004, 09:53 AM

I've never really seen him express his opinion on the city, he seems to take a very neutral stance on everything relating to it.

He's a Flyers fan, which is obviously from his help with the Flyers and their TV programs throughout the year, but that's about it.

Teezax

06-16-2004, 09:54 AM

how is Chicago tortured, they had a dynasty in Basketball only 10 years ago. They're are cities worse than that

Hasbro

06-16-2004, 09:57 AM

how is Chicago tortured, they had a dynasty in Basketball only 10 years ago. They're are cities worse than that
The list is heavily weighted towards baseball and football. So Cubs and Sox, and Cub fan kinda enjoy losing.

go kim johnsson 514

06-16-2004, 10:18 AM

go kim johnsson 514

06-16-2004, 10:33 AM

I just read Buffalo's and why the hell is the OJ Simpson murder trial on there? Because he played for the Bills? He is more remembered for winning the Heisman than the 2,000 yard season (quite frankly because he had auction it off). The Flyers/Sabres game in 2000 where John LeClair hit the side of the net, which tore a hole and went in and the officials never saw it, even though they went to video replay. That was the turning point in the series because the Flyers won that game and 2 of the next 3 to win the series in 5.

Takeo

06-16-2004, 10:39 AM

By the way, don't think any certain ESPN people would favor putting Philadelphia at the top. The only person I've ever seen on ESPN that sympathizes for the city is Sal Paolantonio, and that only being because he's a native Philadelphian.

What about Jaws?

rwilson99

06-16-2004, 10:39 AM

Most importantly:
-Philadelphia has gone 21 years and counting without a pro sports championship, the longest streak by a city with at least 4 pro teams by far

There are so many other various things that have contributed to the extreme pessimism of the Philadelphia area. Everything about the negative reputation Philadelphians have could easily be traced back by a psychologist to the history of being the loser city of sports for well over a century.

the survey is for the last 25 years... my bet is on Philly.

Takeo

06-16-2004, 10:41 AM

I just read Buffalo's and why the hell is the OJ Simpson murder trial on there? Because he played for the Bills? He is more remembered for winning the Heisman than the 2,000 yard season (quite frankly because he had auction it off).

OJ was an icon in Buffalo for a long period of time. From the city's perspective, he is a fallen hero.

go kim johnsson 514

06-16-2004, 11:02 AM

the survey is for the last 25 years... my bet is on Philly.

my bet is too, but it is more than 25 years, if you look over all the lists, there are various moments that are more than 25 years old (Black Sox scandal, Buffalo Braves moving to San Diego)

go kim johnsson 514

06-16-2004, 11:06 AM

OJ was an icon in Buffalo for a long period of time. From the city's perspective, he is a fallen hero.

I suppose you're right. I don't live in Buffalo, so I guess I don't understand, but for someone who it seems as if he never stepped foot back in Buffalo since he left there (living in LA and now Florida). I suspect I'm wrong though.

Mr Brownstone

06-17-2004, 12:20 AM

Cleveland has a solid case. From 1969-1993, the Indians had 3 winning seasons, 4 100+ loss seasons--the years at Municipal Stadium were disgraceful.

This city got shafted when Modell packed up and took our Browns to Baltimore. That still stings a lot of people, even with the new Browns.

The Cavs were owned by Jordan in the playoffs and that highlight seems to be on nightly.

Last World Series win: 1948
Last World Series heartbreak: 1997 (damn you Jose Mesa)

Last Super Bowl win: 1964
Last Super Bowl heartbreak(s): All at the hands of Denver, '87, '88, '90

Last NBA Championship series: N/A
Last NBA Championship heartbreak: Jordan vs. the Cavs in '92

9 Calder Cups with the old Cleveland Barons is about all we've got here. We do have 6 AL Central Division Championships and 2 A.L. Pennants in the past 10 years, but not that World Series. 1997 hurts the most...2-0 lead heading into the 9th.

go kim johnsson 514

06-17-2004, 09:55 AM

Cleveland doesn't have 4 teams, and that makes a difference. Espically when a legendary player (Wilt) is traded out, and the Browns may have had 3 AFC championship losses (I think they lost one to Oakland too), but the Eagles have lost 3 NFC championship in 3 years

ObeySteve

06-17-2004, 10:07 AM

Personally, as a Philadelphian, I find it exponentially harder to cope with having at least 3 of our 4 teams that are in the hunt every single year and never end up coming through than it is to simply have all of your teams have losing seasons and not really have any serious aspiriations for a championship that year.

Fish on The Sand

06-17-2004, 10:19 PM

lux_interior

06-19-2004, 09:34 PM

My thoughts:

I still think Buffalo is most tortured, followed by Philly.

Chicago has had too many recent championships to rate high in the "tortured" category. The Cubs get all the ink, along with the Red Sox, for being tortured...but those 6 Bulls championships and the Bears in 85 take the sting away.

New Orleans should rank somewhere there. I'm a Saints fan...but that team is a travestshamockery.

Anaheim would have ranked up there, IMO at least top fifteen, were it not for the Angels in 2002 and Ducks in 2003. But Anaheim's not "sexy" so they probably wouldn't make the list.

For Canadian cities...I would vote for Vancouver.

ObeySteve

06-19-2004, 09:40 PM

Anaheim would have ranked up there, IMO at least top fifteen, were it not for the Angels in 2002 and Ducks in 2003. But Anaheim's not "sexy" so they probably wouldn't make the list.

Um....Anaheim teams and LA teams are even closer than NY and North Jersey teams.

lux_interior

06-20-2004, 06:11 PM

Um....Anaheim teams and LA teams are even closer than NY and North Jersey teams.
Right you are!

ObeySteve

06-20-2004, 07:38 PM

Well, that's why there was no chance Anaheim would make the list to start. ;)

Besides which, ESPN obviously took into account the size of the areas/cities included, as well as the number of professional teams there....I believe that was a factor in only making Buffalo 3rd.

go kim johnsson 514

06-21-2004, 06:37 PM

Actually, as the biggest tribe fan here, I can tell you with the utmost certainty that Bobby Bonilla hit a solo home run off of Jaret Wright in the 6th, making it a 2-1 lead heading into the 9th.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1997_WS.shtml

it was actually the 7th inning.

Looking at that Marlins roster, it wasn't all that great. A bunch of good players, a few great players, but they would have gotten smoked by the Yankees. I may be talking like an idiot because I'm not much for baseball, but I'd contend that the 2003 Marlins were better than the 1997 Marlins (with 2 former, over-the-hill Phillies)

ObeySteve

06-22-2004, 09:32 AM

So did anyone catch Cold Pizza this morning?

go kim johnsson 514

06-23-2004, 08:00 AM

So did anyone catch Cold Pizza this morning?

i think it was supposed to be today.

Who cares about Wimbeldon?

ObeySteve

06-23-2004, 08:29 AM

It was supposed to be yesterday morning, but apparently Cold Pizza's going off-air for abot 2 weeks while Wimbledon is on.

:banghead:

Hasbro

06-23-2004, 10:05 AM

Don't leave us hanging or anything ESPN!

And we haven't got that most contentious spot out of the way.

tom_servo

06-24-2004, 12:43 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tortured/boston

This is Boston's...

WHERE IS BILL BUCKNER?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That's not only the most heartbreaking, torturous loss in Boston sports history, it is the most heartbreaking, torturous loss EVER!!!

And Why is 1997 on there. The Patriots went to the Super Bowl. On this list they have the Patriots' switching logos but not Bill Buckner?!?!

Read the story.

"The Buckner game. The Boone game. The Bucky Bleepin' Dent game. Blowing Game 7 of the World Series in 1946, 1967, 1975 and 1986.

Enough already. So the Red Sox have suffered a few tough defeats. We've heard so often about those losses we could film a documentary on the tormented plight of Red Sox fans (oh, wait, somebody just did do that). On the other hand, the Patriots have won two Super Bowls in three years, the Celtics won three NBA championships in the '80s and the Bruins have the second-best record in the NHL over the past 25 years.

So, really, we have to kindly disagree with our "Cold Pizza" friends that Boston is a tortured sports city. But that doesn't mean we can't come up with our weekly list of 10 torturous Boston sports moments anyway. Well, besides all those Red Sox losses, that is:"

go kim johnsson 514

06-24-2004, 07:09 AM

Read the story.

"The Buckner game. The Boone game. The Bucky Bleepin' Dent game. Blowing Game 7 of the World Series in 1946, 1967, 1975 and 1986.

Enough already. So the Red Sox have suffered a few tough defeats. We've heard so often about those losses we could film a documentary on the tormented plight of Red Sox fans (oh, wait, somebody just did do that). On the other hand, the Patriots have won two Super Bowls in three years, the Celtics won three NBA championships in the '80s and the Bruins have the second-best record in the NHL over the past 25 years.

So, really, we have to kindly disagree with our "Cold Pizza" friends that Boston is a tortured sports city. But that doesn't mean we can't come up with our weekly list of 10 torturous Boston sports moments anyway. Well, besides all those Red Sox losses, that is:"

That's all BS because half the moments on that list the Boston team won, they have one Bruins moments on that list, and it wasn't the fog game in the Garden, the fact they were the first team to lose to an expansion team in the finals, and 1979 when they got called for too many men on the ice? Who the hell made this list?

thesiver

07-08-2004, 01:21 PM

*bump*

Philly's #2 (link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=paolantonio/tortured_philadelphia))

Who could be #1?

Hasbro

07-08-2004, 01:27 PM

*bump*

Philly's #2 (link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=paolantonio/tortured_philadelphia))

Who could be #1?
Cleveland is the concensus.

go kim johnsson 514

07-08-2004, 01:30 PM

This list has lost all creditbility

Philadelphia...can't be #1 in anything.

I guarentee for Cleveland's list, Philadelphia can put up 2 moments for every one Cleveland has.

Does Cleveland even have 10 moments?

TVanek26*

07-08-2004, 01:33 PM

This list has lost all credibilidy.

Philadelphia...can't be #1 in anything.

Because losing 3 Conf Champs in a row is worse then losing 4 straight SB's?I guess winning back to back cups is worse then winning no cups.

go kim johnsson 514

07-08-2004, 01:50 PM

Because losing 3 Conf Champs in a row is worse then losing 4 straight SB's?I guess winning back to back cups is worse then winning no cups.

Losing 4 straight superbowls is pretty much all Buffalo has done, besides losing the Braves and the Music City Miracle, however Buffalo should be #2

At least the Bills got to the Super Bowl, the Bills didn't lose 2 Super Bowls at home.

ObeySteve

07-08-2004, 02:23 PM

Cleveland should be number one on a "Most losing sports cities" list, but not "Most tortured sports cities" list.

leafaholix*

07-08-2004, 05:17 PM

Pittsburgh.

lux_interior

07-09-2004, 12:22 PM

This is off topic...but I noticed that in ESPN's top 25 blunders of all time, Buckner's gaffe in the World Series wasn't even mentioned in the top 25. Maybe they decided to give the poor guy a break? :dunno: I would think he would have to be #1.

Douggy

07-09-2004, 01:53 PM

St. Louis!!!!

NucksFan16

07-09-2004, 02:05 PM

MLH

07-09-2004, 11:57 PM

Losing 4 straight superbowls is pretty much all Buffalo has done, besides losing the Braves and the Music City Miracle, however Buffalo should be #2

See the avatar. So the 4 straight Super Bowl losses, suffering the most improbable defeat in NFL playoff history, losing a pro sports franchise, getting the Stanley Cup awarded against you, having a pivotal goal in a playoff series go through the side of the net, being 89 seconds away from the Cup Finals only to lose two straight games in overtime, having a local sports hero become a nationally televised murderer, and having the cities undefeated "third franchise's" boxing career end prematurely to do brain damage is pretty much it, eh?

But hey you had a horse lose the Belmont. Has any horse ever won the first two legs without winning it all? Oh wait...

Who beat the Sabres for the Cup in 75?

It's no contest really.

Fish on The Sand

07-11-2004, 03:54 AM

See the avatar. So the 4 straight Super Bowl losses, suffering the most improbable defeat in NFL playoff history, losing a pro sports franchise, getting the Stanley Cup awarded against you, having a pivotal goal in a playoff series go through the side of the net, being 89 seconds away from the Cup Finals only to lose two straight games in overtime, having a local sports hero become a nationally televised murderer, and having the cities undefeated "third franchise's" boxing career end prematurely to do brain damage is pretty much it, eh?

But hey you had a horse lose the Belmont. Has any horse ever won the first two legs without winning it all? Oh wait...

Who beat the Sabres for the Cup in 75?

It's no contest really.
Hasek won 6 vezina trophies and 2 mvp awards during that time, and the foot in the crease means crap. The Sabres were an absolutly average team that rode Hasek to the cup, making it past the first round would have been enough for the Sabres, so getting as far as they did was anything but torture, especially since disallowing the goal on such a dumb technicality would have been rediculous, and they probably would have lost anyways.

King Ryan

07-11-2004, 04:01 AM

disallowing the goal on such a dumb technicality would have been rediculous.

Are you kidding me?

Maybe if there wasn't a precedent for disallowing goals on that specific technicality then you might have a point, but considering the insane amount of goals that were disallowed when that rule was in place due to a skate's lace being in the crease, it's absurd that the rule wasn't considered relevant then.

The most important desicion the NHL had to make that year, and they didn't even go upstairs. :shakehead

MLH

07-11-2004, 11:30 AM

It doesn't matter whether you think it should have been a goal or not. To say that because the Sabres were an average team with a great goalie (which I agree with) makes it any less torturous is asinine. Losing the Cup, at home, in triple overtime, and after you just drilled the crossbar is torturous even if the goal was clean. Having to experience that situation and then factor in the controversy makes it one of the hardest losses to swallow in NHL history.

TVanek26*

07-11-2004, 12:12 PM

Hasek won 6 vezina trophies and 2 mvp awards during that time, and the foot in the crease means crap. The Sabres were an absolutly average team that rode Hasek to the cup, making it past the first round would have been enough for the Sabres, so getting as far as they did was anything but torture, especially since disallowing the goal on such a dumb technicality would have been rediculous, and they probably would have lost anyways.

Well we did sweep the Habs the year before,so I guess that makes up from the torture ;)

If there wasn't the skate rule I wouldn't have cared we lost fair and square...but there was the rule in place and no matter how dumb it seems it should not have count.And if you think it was a goal,you're either a Buffalo Hater or a Dallas fan (the 3 or so they have on HF)

Fish on The Sand

07-11-2004, 04:19 PM

Are you kidding me?

Maybe if there wasn't a precedent for disallowing goals on that specific technicality then you might have a point, but considering the insane amount of goals that were disallowed when that rule was in place due to a skate's lace being in the crease, it's absurd that the rule wasn't considered relevant then.

The most important desicion the NHL had to make that year, and they didn't even go upstairs. :shakehead
I know that the rules said it wasnt a goal, but it would have been just stupid if it had been disallowed. Say the Sabres got the goal disallowed, and then scored a few mins later, and Hasek stole game 7 and they won the cup. There would be riots that the sabres won the cup because of the dumbest rule in all sports, and it would be an even bigger controversy than it is now. The only way there is no controversy is if Dallas scores in game 6 after getting the goal disallowed.

go kim johnsson 514

07-11-2004, 04:25 PM

Who beat the Sabres for the Cup in 75?

One of very few glorious victories.

the disadvantage Buffalo has is that they only have 2 sports, 2 of their moments were teams either leaving or not coming

ObeySteve

07-11-2004, 05:42 PM

the disadvantage Buffalo has is that they only have 2 sports, 2 of their moments were teams either leaving or not coming

Not to mention size. We're comparing the 1 million people in the Buffalo area to the almost 5 million people in the Philadelphia area.

MLH

07-11-2004, 08:38 PM

Not to mention size. We're comparing the 1 million people in the Buffalo area to the almost 5 million people in the Philadelphia area.

That would be relevant if we were judging the city with the most people tortured. Since we're not that has nothing to do with anything.

One of very few glorious victories.

One glorious victory would be good enough for any Buffalo fan.

I agree that the reason Buffalo isn't #1 is because there are only two teams, but that doesn't make it right. Their two teams have caused more heartache than the four in Philly with no "glorious victories" to their name. Like I said earlier, it really isn't a contest. The Bills alone have tortured Buffalo enough to garner the #1 spot.

ObeySteve

07-11-2004, 08:42 PM

That would be relevant if we were judging the city with the most people tortured. Since we're not that has nothing to do with anything.

It if isn't relavent, then why did ESPN fail to include all the tiny towns across America who have one high school sports team the entire town follows, and never wins anything?

Obviously size is being taken into account to some extent. If what Buffalo has gone through happened to NY, they would be #1 on the list.

MLH

07-11-2004, 11:02 PM

It if isn't relavent, then why did ESPN fail to include all the tiny towns across America who have one high school sports team the entire town follows, and never wins anything?

Obviously size is being taken into account to some extent. If what Buffalo has gone through happened to NY, they would be #1 on the list.

They are focusing on professional sports. High schoolers not named LeBron aren't paid. The reason Buffalo is not number one (outside of ESPN biases) is because the list strongly factors in MLB. So indirectly yes, but the actual number of people is irrelevant. Go Jonnsen had it right when he said that no MLB or NBA teams hurt the cities chances. And yes that is related to the population, but that really didn't need to be stated.

Either way its a moot point because no other city is really close.

tom_servo

07-12-2004, 01:15 AM

Pittsburgh.

?

Perhaps if your memory goes back only two years.

tom_servo

07-12-2004, 01:21 AM

Hasek won 6 vezina trophies and 2 mvp awards during that time, and the foot in the crease means crap.

As do Hasek's personal awards.

Nonetheless, losing Game Six of the Finals in OT on home ice, no-goal or not, is a tough blow.

leafaholix*

07-12-2004, 01:53 AM

?

Perhaps if your memory goes back only two years.
5 or 6 years of playoff hockey from the Pens means what exactly?

The Pirates suck.

The Steelers aren't that good. I know this... and I'm not a fan of the NFL.

The Penguins have been awful for the last couple years, the 80's and most of the 70's. There was/is talk about contracting the team... that's not good.

Fish on The Sand

07-12-2004, 01:57 AM

As do Hasek's personal awards.

Nonetheless, losing Game Six of the Finals in OT on home ice, no-goal or not, is a tough blow.
Watching arguably the best player ever at his position, at the top of his game for so many years is the exact opposite of a curse. Red Sox fans never considered themselves cursed when Williams was around, and Giants fans never consider themselves cursed with Bonds around.

tom_servo

07-12-2004, 04:41 AM

5 or 6 years of playoff hockey from the Pens means what exactly?

The Pirates suck.

The Steelers aren't that good. I know this... and I'm not a fan of the NFL.

The Penguins have been awful for the last couple years, the 80's and most of the 70's. There was/is talk about contracting the team... that's not good.

Yes, we've been on a slight downturn lately. That in itself isn't torture. Get real.

tom_servo

07-12-2004, 04:45 AM

Watching arguably the best player ever at his position, at the top of his game for so many years is the exact opposite of a curse. Red Sox fans never considered themselves cursed when Williams was around, and Giants fans never consider themselves cursed with Bonds around.

Of course every team on this list has some sort of silver lining like that. But the Sabres run in '99 is just one patch in the quilt. Coming that close to victory that many times and failing every time... that's torture.

TVanek26*

07-12-2004, 05:12 AM

They are focusing on professional sports. High schoolers not named LeBron aren't paid. The reason Buffalo is not number one (outside of ESPN biases) is because the list strongly factors in MLB. So indirectly yes, but the actual number of people is irrelevant. Go Jonnsen had it right when he said that no MLB or NBA teams hurt the cities chances. And yes that is related to the population, but that really didn't need to be stated.

Either way its a moot point because no other city is really close.

Well you know it's bad that Philly fans want to be crowned "most tortured" city.....

tom_servo

07-12-2004, 05:53 AM

They are focusing on professional sports. High schoolers not named LeBron aren't paid.

No they aren't. There are a number of NCAA stories in there.

go kim johnsson 514

07-12-2004, 07:04 AM

That would be relevant if we were judging the city with the most people tortured. Since we're not that has nothing to do with anything.

One glorious victory would be good enough for any Buffalo fan.

I agree that the reason Buffalo isn't #1 is because there are only two teams, but that doesn't make it right. Their two teams have caused more heartache than the four in Philly with no "glorious victories" to their name. Like I said earlier, it really isn't a contest. The Bills alone have tortured Buffalo enough to garner the #1 spot.

Philadelphia has had 4 sports teams since 1967, and since the A's left Philadelphia, 4 sports teams have accounted for 7 championships (Eagles 1, Sixers 3, Flyers 2, Phillies 1). If Buffalo had (4) sports as long as Philadelphia has, I'm sure there would have been similar 'success'.

Looking back, to be frank, besides the Super Bowls, and 2 Stanley Cup losses at home, plus the music city miracle....whats left..?

NOT on the Philadelphia list that if it happened in Buffalo would have easily been on Buffalo's list

-During the 60's the Sixers and Celtics went to the finals almost every year against each other, the Sixers only won once, and lost any Game 7 against the Celtics

-Fog Bowl (Randall Cunningham threw for over 400 yards as well)

-The Eagles losing a home playoff game to Tampa Bay (back when they were still a futile franchise) off of a bye week, Atlanta (futile franchise)

-The Flyers losing to a god damned expansion team in 1996

-The Flyers blowing a 3-1 series lead in the ECF in 2000

-The Phillies as a franchise in general.

MLH

07-12-2004, 07:45 AM

Philadelphia has had 4 sports teams since 1967, and since the A's left Philadelphia, 4 sports teams have accounted for 7 championships (Eagles 1, Sixers 3, Flyers 2, Phillies 1). If Buffalo had (4) sports as long as Philadelphia has, I'm sure there would have been similar 'success'.

Looking back, to be frank, besides the Super Bowls, and 2 Stanley Cup losses at home, plus the music city miracle....whats left..?

NOT on the Philadelphia list that if it happened in Buffalo would have easily been on Buffalo's list

-During the 60's the Sixers and Celtics went to the finals almost every year against each other, the Sixers only won once, and lost any Game 7 against the Celtics

-Fog Bowl (Randall Cunningham threw for over 400 yards as well)

-The Eagles losing a home playoff game to Tampa Bay (back when they were still a futile franchise) off of a bye week, Atlanta (futile franchise)

-The Flyers losing to a god damned expansion team in 1996

-The Flyers blowing a 3-1 series lead in the ECF in 2000

-The Phillies as a franchise in general.

Every Philly team has won a championship. How do you figure that if Buffalo had four sports teams success would be duplicated?

Are you serious when you say besides the 4 straight Super Bowl losses, two SCF losses at home, and the Music City Miracle ?!?!? Besides? Isn't that enough? Having a pivotal goal scored through the side of the net, Joe Mesi and his hematoba's, The Braves moving, St Bona losing it's star player to injury in the Final Four, Prince's shot against Bona a few years back, back-to-back OT losses in the Stanley Cup playoffs after squandering a lead with the oppositions goalie pulled, OJ etc, etc. However, the MCM, Wide Right, and No Goal epitomize torture. No other city can "boast" three losses as heartbreaking as those.

I wish, as a Buffalo sports fan, that I could be "tortured" to seven championships.