The Clock is Ticking

Any word on the Ducks' efforts to sign Tim Brent, Brian Lee or any other unsigned 2002 draftees?

4 days left...I haven't heard anything...no mention of anything in LA Times or OC Register yet, I guess they have better things to do than see what Bryan Murray is up to...

tomorrow is the deadline...anyone heard anything about Murray being close to signing any of the prospects???

i was looking around various sources tonight and unfortunately i have not found anything

Any news yet today?

I heard the deadline is 5 pm (eastern i assume). :cry:

5pm EST so little more then 2 hours from now

however, press releases and the ilk won't be sent out until after the deadline, so it still could be 2-3 days before we find out for sure the future of these prospects

5pm EST so little more then 2 hours from now

however, press releases and the ilk won't be sent out until after the deadline, so it still could be 2-3 days before we find out for sure the future of these prospects
If Murray isn't able to sign to sign these guys he really should think about looking for another job. But I'm confident - he got Fedorov, so it should not be a problem to get Brent...

It's 5:00.

No word?

If Brent isn't signed Murray should lose his job.

If Brent isn't signed Murray should lose his job.

There's no way a GM should be fired for not signing a prospect, who is like 5th in the organization. Also, maybe Brent doesn't want to play in Anaheim. Or maybe he's demanding way too much money. If Brent remains unsigned, there's more possible explanations than "the GM screwed up".

From TSN.ca:

"Tim Brent, an assistant captain with the national junior team last Christmas, is going back into the NHL entry draft after the Anaheim Mighty Ducks failed to sign him by Tuesday's deadline."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=86052

Great. The Ducks screw this one up. I wonder if Brent was asking for too much money. Well he screwed up as well because he won't get as much going back into the draft as he could had with the Ducks. In the end, both sides lost out.

This is frustrating.. :mad:

To follow the progress of a prospect for 2 years and then have him gone from the organization just like that. :madfire:

If Brent isn't signed Murray should lose his job.

If Brent was asking for "1st round money", than I actually think Murray made a keen move passing on him. Brent has a ways to go in my eyes and there is no certainty he'll get their. Time will tell, but I wouldn't hang Murray yet.... not over Tim Brent.

This is frustrating.. :mad:

To follow the progress of a prospect for 2 years and then have him gone from the organization just like that. :madfire:


You could always re-draft him. There is an unwritten, unspoken rule where no team *shouldn't* draft that player before either the spot he was taken, or the compensatory pick the team received for him. There have been exceptions (Jarret Stoll)

You could always re-draft him. There is an unwritten, unspoken rule where no team *shouldn't* draft that player before either the spot he was taken, or the compensatory pick the team received for him. There have been exceptions (Jarret Stoll)

Are there compensatory picks for teams who don't sign there 2nd rounders?

compensation picks are rewarded only for former 1st rounders.

I hope he falls to our pick at the second, or either third round. Unless he wanted too much money, or didn't want to play here, I'd like another stab at him.

I'd rather that money go to Getzlaf or a UFA who is nearer to helping the team.

I'd rather that money go to Getzlaf or a UFA who is nearer to helping the team.
Brent's not that far off from the NHL.

Maybe a season in the AHL... maybe.

Brent's not that far off from the NHL.

Maybe a season in the AHL... maybe.
Brent would make an excellant pick for your leafs considering they do not have many picks and Brent would be a very safe pick as a result ..

Will he make it to the 3rd round .. We will see..

Brent would make an excellant pick for your leafs considering they do not have many picks and Brent would be a very safe pick as a result ..

Wil he make it to the 3rd round .. We will see..

Seems like he will go in the early second round again...

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=81557

Brent would make an excellant pick for your leafs considering they do not have many picks and Brent would be a very safe pick as a result ..

Wil he make it to the 3rd round .. We will see..
What?

What?
HE SAID THE LEAFS MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER TAKING BRENT WITH THEIR FIRST PICK IF HE'S AVAILABLE!

Brent's not that far off from the NHL.

Maybe a season in the AHL... maybe.
Neither is Getzlaf. Or alternatively signing a UFA would obviously be a better short-term option.

HE SAID THE LEAFS MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER TAKING BRENT WITH THEIR FIRST PICK IF HE'S AVAILABLE!

Yup that's exactly what I said and meant ..

but ..

I think that Washington will pick him with one of their late first rounders that they have 2 of.. by adding Ovechkin ....Brent would make and excellent pick for them and a good fit for Washington..

Yup that's exactly what I said and meant ..

but ..

I think that Washington will pick him with one of their late first rounders that they have 2 of.. by adding Ovechkin ....Brent would make and excellent pick for them and a good fit for Washington..
What I meant by "what" is that you said "your Leafs".

Kind of strange coming from a Leaf fan.

If Brent was asking for "1st round money", than I actually think Murray made a keen move passing on him. Brent has a ways to go in my eyes and there is no certainty he'll get their. Time will tell, but I wouldn't hang Murray yet.... not over Tim Brent.
Brent is a very good player, first line quality?No, but he's a guy that plays hard everynight and will eventually be a two way 50-60 pt player who will take on a leadership role someday.

Just very frustrating.

Murrays a real idiot now....

I can understand if the prospect is underacheiving, but how can you not sign a guy like Brent? He has great work ethic and has a good amount of skill. The only knock on him is that hes small, but that can easily be changed with some training.

Murray has really disappointed me last season and hes continuing to do so this offseason...

forget brent we have penner and glencross .... :help: for me it looks like murray isn't better than the gm's before him. but maybe he saw something in brent the others don't.

my perediction: nj in the first will take brent. --> just another great steal of them

forget brent we have penner and glencross .... :help: for me it looks like murray isn't better than the gm's before him. but maybe he saw something in brent the others don't.

my perediction: nj in the first will take brent. --> just another great steal of them

You discount him by saying Murray didn't think it was worth it, but then you call him a steal, as a 20 year old, in the first round (#22 no less its not like theyre picking 29th)

Bonehead move by Murray. Maybe Brent asked a Kariya-like contract just to re-enter the draft and move to another franchise...

I see him taken in the mid second round, maybe a bit early.

From the OCR this morning...

"The Ducks projected Brent, a 6-foot, 180-pounder, as a fourth-line player at the outset of his career with the potential to develop into a solid, third-line role player."

Sounds like the organization isn't nearly as high on Brent as this board is. I think most here see him as a 2nd line player eventually.

Also...

"The Ducks, who earlier signed 2002 draft picks Joffrey Lupul and George Davis, did not make offers to four others - defensemen Brian Lee, Luke Fritshaw, Francois Caron and Chris Petrow."

I knew all those picks were wasted. Oh well.

This was definetly not a move I was hoping for.. This might also open up the possibility of drafting a forward in the first two rounds, although a defenseman should still be top priority...

Its ridiculous, its like not drafting in this years 2nd and 3rd rounds.... Im sure Lee and Brent could have got something in return... That lisp speaking Murray may have just got lucky his first yr....

Murrays a real idiot now....

I can understand if the prospect is underacheiving, but how can you not sign a guy like Brent? He has great work ethic and has a good amount of skill. The only knock on him is that hes small, but that can easily be changed with some training.

Murray has really disappointed me last season and hes continuing to do so this offseason...

Without knowing anything about the negotiations process, cheesymc, there's no justification for saying Murray is "a real idiot". Is it your position that a GM should simply acquiesce to the demands of any unsigned prospect you think has decent potential? I wouldn't overpay for a solid UFA, nor would I do so for an unsigned prospect. I might consider it if he had the talent of, say, Kovalchuk.

Its ridiculous, its like not drafting in this years 2nd and 3rd rounds.... Im sure Lee and Brent could have got something in return... That lisp speaking Murray may have just got lucky his first yr....

Please stop the cheap shots about Murray's lisp. What makes you so certain that Murray didn't make any effort to trade Brent? As for Lee, I don't think his stock was that high. Any team that has an interest should be able to pick him up without any compensation somewhere around the 6th or 7th round.

Its ridiculous, its like not drafting in this years 2nd and 3rd rounds.... Im sure Lee and Brent could have got something in return...

Lee is very much a marginal prospect. I'd much rather have Murray's effort directed towards Korsunov or a free agent (eg Sauer).

Brent would have been nice to keep, but he's hardly going to make or break the Ducks. No GM wins every time he trades, drafts, etc so I see no reason to bash on Murray for this.

"It's disappointing," Ducks general manager Bryan Murray said. "There was a sense (Monday) that it was going to get done, and then (Tuesday), no sense that they were really interested in our offer."

what the F?...I'm gonna give Murray the benefit of the doubt and say that it was Brent and his agent who f'd this up and wanted to get back into the draft.

I'm surprised that no offers were made at all to Lee or Caron when Cincy's Defense is so thin right now...

so heres how our 2002 draft looks:

1st(7):Joffrey Lupul-franchise first line scorer-Anaheim 04/05
2nd(37):Tim Brent-re-entering draft
3rd(71):Brian Lee-re-entering draft
4th(103):Joonas Vihko-Marginal prospect in Europe
5th(140):George Davis-Future enforcer-Cincy 04/05
6th(173):Luke Fritshaw-UFA
7th-traded
8th-traded
9th(261):Francois Caron-re-entering draft
9th(267):Chris Petrow-re-entering draft/UFA?

2001 and 2003 drafts look a lot better.

I'm surprised that no offers were made at all to Lee or Caron when Cincy's Defense is so thin right now...

What would be the point? He's already got 3 projects in Alen, O'Brien, and Brookbank. The Cincy blue line needs top end talent and some vets to replace Rierden, Armstrong and Mottau (if he's not back).

I'm disappointed, I was quite high on Brent, Lee and Caron

I have a feeling that Brent just isn't as good as a lot of people here say he is...

I say the Ducks spend money on NHL players at this point.

I have a feeling that Brent just isn't as good as a lot of people here say he is... After watching Brent play the last two years for the Majors I can tell you that he is every bit as good as people are saying. There simply isn't anything he can't do and there is no doubt in my mind he will be a 2nd line center in the NHL some day.

I always pictured brent to be at the most a kirk maltby type player, a third line grinder, much like the role he played at the WJ. With cincy already filled with young players who have potential to be 3rd or 4th liners in the NHL, murray was not going to over pay for brent.

The gap between Murray's opinion and the opinion on the boards about Brent is pretty wide.

But this is hockey's future after all and prospects tend to be overrated. Brent was a good prospect but we have better ones still needing contracts, and the Ducks are squad that should be thinking more short term than long. Meaning: free agents.

Lee, Caron and Petrow were nothing special, nothing better than the marginal stuff we already have.

Reading BM's comments I more and more have a feeling that Brent did not want to sign with the Ducks. If Brent wanted a deal and BM's offer was not good enough, his agent would have immediately called. But they just didn't response, so I think signing with the Ducks was not Brent's "top priority".

This is part of an article that appeared in the Kitchener Record yesterday (www.therecord.com but you need a password to read anything).

"I'm disappointed," said Brent, after visiting Burlington-based agent Todd Reynolds late yesterday afternoon as the deadline passed.

"I thought I did everything I could and everything that (the Ducks) asked me to do. Anytime you feel that way, you expect to get something done. We just couldn't do that."

Brent, the 37th overall pick in the NHL draft in Toronto two Junes ago, has played four seasons with the Majors, including two as team captain.

In 2001, the Hespeler and Cambridge minor hockey product was captain of the national under-18 team which won gold at the Six Nations Cup.

Yesterday, Brent said he and Anaheim never got close to an agreement on financial terms of his first NHL contract. Brent said the two sides were far apart on salary and signing bonus.

Brent, who is considered a natural leader and strong two-way player, wouldn't disclose any numbers from yesterday's failed last-minute discussions with the Ducks.

However, Brent said he wasn't asking for anything close to the $1.185-million maximum annual salary a player drafted in 2002 may earn in a three-year deal under the NHL's rookie cap.

"I know what some other guys had gotten," Brent said. "Guys who I thought were comparable to myself. I wasn't getting offered close to that."

So now, after two years of thinking he was destined to be a Duck, Brent must wait and see which NHL club will take him later this month.

"As of now, I'm not a Mighty Duck any more. It's a little bit of weird feeling. I remember how happy I was on draft day and how happy I have been the last two years to be a member of the organization. It's just too bad that it had to end," Brent said.

"I thought I did everything Anaheim had asked me for. Hopefully, other (NHL) teams will see that and will give me a chance to play in their organization next year."

Thanks for that Charlie_girl49. Almost sounds like he was being lowballed, or atleast in his assumption. How much does everyone figure he was offered? $500k?

what surprised me was the quotes from Murray saying they had him projected to be a third liner at best.
I think Brent believed what a lot of us thought, second liner sorta guy and thus that was the difference

Thanks for the info Charlie_Girl49.

Knowing that Brent was excited to be a part of this organization and really wanted to be here, now I'm even more angry with Bryan Murray. :banghead:

what surprised me was the quotes from Murray saying they had him projected to be a third liner at best.
I think Brent believed what a lot of us thought, second liner sorta guy and thus that was the difference


From the "meaningless but interesting department"

After Trevor Kidd went down for the remainder of the 99-2000 season, Murray traded away Radek Dvorak in a 3-way deal for Mike Vernon. Murray said almost the exact same thing about Radek...that he wasn't going to ever be anything more than a 3rd liner.

well...he isn't, really.

I'm disappointed we didn't sign Brent, but 3rd liner sounds about right. His scoring numbers are good, but not exceptional, so even if he became a 2nd line center, he'd probably just be an average one by NHL standards.

I mean really, we're talking about Rucchin being better as a 3rd line center than a 2nd liner ... and as much as I still like Brent I think he'd be lucky to turn out as good as Rooch.

From the "meaningless but interesting department"

After Trevor Kidd went down for the remainder of the 99-2000 season, Murray traded away Radek Dvorak in a 3-way deal for Mike Vernon. Murray said almost the exact same thing about Radek...that he wasn't going to ever be anything more than a 3rd liner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mike Vernon not only lead the Wings to the Stanley Cup but also win the Conn Smythe Award? Doesn't sound like a bad trade to me.

that's not the point of that note
it's supposed to indicate that Murray thought Dvorak was nothing more then a third-liner (a la Brent), and Dvorak turned into a fairly decent player

It is disappointing that Brent didn't sign and I know he rally wanted to play in Anaheim, however calling Murray a idiot is out of line. The looming CBA I am sure has a lot to do with it. There could be a whole restructure of salary and rookie signing bonuses and there is a good chance a salary cap will be added. Murray like many other Gm's is probably being cautious with money right now.

Drafting nothing is still losing no matter what. Get nothing in return for your 2nd and 3rd rounder, why the hell draft in the first place. Im sure one team had interest in him, but Murray got nothing, not even a middle draft pick... thats pathetic.... and I'll make fun about his lisp as much as I want.

cheesy, we can't sign every-damn-body. We don't know what the hell the cap will look like, we have a ton of money tied up already. If we're going to spend millions of dollars on prospects I'd rather it be on the better players like Getzlaf and Perry or potential UFA signings than low-end potential guys like Brent.

Making fun of the lisp doesn't add any weight to your argument.

I don't honestly believe that Brent was holding this back. He is a definite team player and never puts himself before the better of the team. He's not a selfish player and I'm sure he negotiates like that. I doubt he didn't get signed because he didn't want to. He's as loyal a player as you'll find in the OHL. But one thing he does not get enough credit for is his offense. He really is underrated in that area. Even though he doesn't put up the numbers Corey Perry does, he definitely is one of the most talented offensive OHL players. He's very creative with the puck. Difference is, Brent didn't have the support someone like Perry had. Brent was always the main offensive weapon in Toronto. Toronto was a scoring-by-committee team and he elevated the game of everyone else on his line. Especially 2005 eligible Cory Vitarelli. This is why I don't believe people when they label him simply a 3rd liner. If he had 2 inches and 15 pounds more, people would be calling him a 2nd liner IMO.

I'm disappointed we didn't sign Brent, but 3rd liner sounds about right. His scoring numbers are good, but not exceptional, so even if he became a 2nd line center, he'd probably just be an average one by NHL standards.

I mean really, we're talking about Rucchin being better as a 3rd line center than a 2nd liner ... and as much as I still like Brent I think he'd be lucky to turn out as good as Rooch.
If Brent was as good as Rucchin he'd have a very good career, if Rucchin gets his knees better we'll get that 50-60 point, solid defensive center who can be more of a presence in front of the net.

Maybe the Ducks will take Brent again, maybe they won't I like Brent as a player but he'd be a borderline 2nd liner due to his size, plus with all the depth the team has at center(Getzlaf and Pahlsson will be here for a long time) it won't be hard to find a 2nd line center via free agency or another draft, if he were a defensemen i'm sure many here would be more concerned.

I don't honestly believe that Brent was holding this back. He is a definite team player and never puts himself before the better of the team. He's not a selfish player and I'm sure he negotiates like that. I doubt he didn't get signed because he didn't want to. He's as loyal a player as you'll find in the OHL. But one thing he does not get enough credit for is his offense. He really is underrated in that area. Even though he doesn't put up the numbers Corey Perry does, he definitely is one of the most talented offensive OHL players. He's very creative with the puck. Difference is, Brent didn't have the support someone like Perry had. Brent was always the main offensive weapon in Toronto. Toronto was a scoring-by-committee team and he elevated the game of everyone else on his line. Especially 2005 eligible Cory Vitarelli. This is why I don't believe people when they label him simply a 3rd liner. If he had 2 inches and 15 pounds more, people would be calling him a 2nd liner IMO.
If he wanted to be here he would have signed the deal, getting about 500K a year for your first deal he should be eager to sign it. He wasn't if he's as good as people say he is then he will make plenty of money in the future, so for him saying it wasn't close makes me think he wanted more money because if he doesn't get what he wants he goes back into the draft and if he's taken in the first round he'll get more.

My feeling is that if he really wanted to be here he would have signed the contract, he didn't so thats the end of him here.

If he wanted to be here he would have signed the deal, getting about 500K a year for your first deal he should be eager to sign it. He wasn't if he's as good as people say he is then he will make plenty of money in the future, so for him saying it wasn't close makes me think he wanted more money because if he doesn't get what he wants he goes back into the draft and if he's taken in the first round he'll get more.

My feeling is that if he really wanted to be here he would have signed the contract, he didn't so thats the end of him here.Well it's like he said, players who he thinks he's better than signed for more. He is a loyal player who throughout the two years expressed his happiness to be part of the Anaheim organization. But if the team completely lowballed him it's understandable. It's not like he wanted to sit out like RJ Umberger went and did. I really doubt this deal didn't get done because of him...

Daniel Paille signed a contract a few days earlier and I wonder if his agent was asking for the same type of deal. Both guys are projected checkers. The only difference is that Paille is a first rounder while Brent is a second round pick. Maybe that is where the money difference came into play.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mike Vernon not only lead the Wings to the Stanley Cup but also win the Conn Smythe Award? Doesn't sound like a bad trade to me.


Yep, that's the same Mike Vernon, but a bit older. Vernon did play reasonably well for all of 34 games as a Panther. But it was increasingly clear he was in the twilight of his career. For Panther fans it was more a matter of poor asset management.

As for Radek, it can reasonably be argued either way whether he is 3rd line material. Personally I think he's a bit better and his numbers seem to reflect that...but it's his unheralded defensive play that made us hate that trade.

Daniel Paille signed a contract a few days earlier and I wonder if his agent was asking for the same type of deal. Both guys are projected checkers. The only difference is that Paille is a first rounder while Brent is a second round pick. Maybe that is where the money difference came into play.

hmmm I think you got it. That would definitly make sense, I think Buffalo gave Paille a pretty good contract and that is what brent wanted.

He is a loyal player who throughout the two years expressed his happiness to be part of the Anaheim organization.

Until they wanted to pay him less than he thought he was worth. Loyalty is more than lip service. You call him unselfish, but you've no idea how he'd react when a great deal of money's involved.

Until they wanted to pay him less than he thought he was worth. Loyalty is more than lip service. You call him unselfish, but you've no idea how he'd react when a great deal of money's involved.Well being in the Toronto area I had seen interviews over the past two years where he was always smiling whenever the word's "Anaheim" or "Mighty Ducks" were brought up in interviews. You can't really fake that sort of thing, and if he did, he did an excellent job of fooling me. I'm more inclined to believe that the team lowballed him with their offer. He really was proud to be a part of this organization and there's no doubt in my mind he would have been happy to play here. But when you get offered something that makes no sense (which could have been the case), it's no wonder he'd say thanks but no thanks. You don't want to simply "settle" if the organization doesn't think you're going to be as good as everyone else is saying you will be.

Though both sides obviously couldn't get a contract done, I definetely would want Murray to take him again, but only if he falls to our third rounder. Though it'd probably be worth it, giving up a second rounder to keep something you could've had wouldn't be looked at too well. A third is livable, though.

Well it's like he said, players who he thinks he's better than signed for more. He is a loyal player who throughout the two years expressed his happiness to be part of the Anaheim organization. But if the team completely lowballed him it's understandable. It's not like he wanted to sit out like RJ Umberger went and did. I really doubt this deal didn't get done because of him...
I don't think it matters if the Ducks low balled him, if about 500 K is lowballing then I'd love to be lowballed. I agree Brent is a good player, but maybe he overvalued himself if he is as good as he thinks he is then he'll make plenty of money in the future. So I really don't agree with him here, I'm getting tired of young athletes like Eli Manning, Steve Francis etc dictating where they'll go and complain that their being lowballed...IMO you have to prove yourself at the highest level before you make demands, he could have taken the contract came to the NHL produced and gotten paid.

He just didn't want to be here, and it's ok he's allowed to do what he wants but for a 20 year old kid 500 thousand dollars is alot of money.

I don't think it matters if the Ducks low balled him, if about 500 K is lowballing then I'd love to be lowballed. I agree Brent is a good player, but maybe he overvalued himself if he is as good as he thinks he is then he'll make plenty of money in the future. So I really don't agree with him here, I'm getting tired of young athletes like Eli Manning, Steve Francis etc dictating where they'll go and complain that their being lowballed...IMO you have to prove yourself at the highest level before you make demands, he could have taken the contract came to the NHL produced and gotten paid.

He just didn't want to be here, and it's ok he's allowed to do what he wants but for a 20 year old kid 500 thousand dollars is alot of money.Apples and oranges my friend. Steve Francis clearly didn't want to play in Canada. He all but said that with his numerous pathetic statements after being drafted in the NBA.

Brent I don't think should be put in the Steve Francis category. I agree he could have just taken the contract and worked his way up, but there are probably many other things we don't even know about. Someone posted a quote where he said he was seeing other players being offered more who he was quite possibly better than. I worked at the same place for three summers, always worked my butt off and everyone liked having me around. Someone else came in, worked hard too and had only been there a month before he was making more money than me for doing basically the same thing (if not less than what I did. I had been there more than a year longer too). I was pretty upset when I found out, so I can understand if Brent is upset if he sees other players who he's better than make more than he does.