Was it Dudley that traded for...

Khabibulin??? What did he send to Phoenix at the time? Dudley gets fired everywhere he goes.... what's with that? Can any ot you guys answer these questions... thanks in advance.

Dudley traded Mike Johnson, Paul Mara, Ruslan Zainullin (sp) and a 2nd in the 2001 draft to Phoenix for Stan Neckar and Khabibulin.

Why does he get fired? To put it simple he is more of a scout than GM.

Why does he get fired? To put it simple he is more of a scout than GM.


Not a very good scout either. I.E. Trading for Kevin Weekes over Luongo, and his obsession with Matthieu Biron (giving up ADRIAN F***ING AUCOIN).

Not a very good scout either. I.E. Trading for Kevin Weekes over Luongo, and his obsession with Matthieu Biron (giving up ADRIAN F***ING AUCOIN).

This bit about Dudley having a chance to get Luongo is a complete farce. This isnt a defend Dudley bit on my part because I have no allegiance to Dudley.

Luongo was never made available to teams because Bryan Murray and Mike Milbury had been discussing this deal for a couple of months before it happened, and it was made clear that there would be no deal if Milbury went shopping around for better deals.

I know this from Bryan Murray himself and front office people within the Islanders who knew all the facts when this deal was getting discussed.

This belief that dudley passed up Luongo is kinda funny and based on nothing substantial, and is almost as credible as Panther fans who insisted that Bryan Murray called Chris Wells the next Eric Lindros...it is passed on and spread like wildfire and based on false information.

Rip Dudley all you want, but rip him on credible information and trades that did happen, and not on hear-say.

With all due respect, Mark, whatever you've learned from Bryan Murray and these mysterious "front office people within the Islanders" about a deal between Millbury and Dudley is also what I would describe as hearsay. So basically this comes down to one man's hearsay versus another's. Since I happen to personally know two people (equally mysterious, for probably the same reasons as yours) close to Dudley who say this trade proposal did in fact take place, forgive me if I'm inclined to believe them.

Dudley gets fired everywhere he goes.... what's with that?

Because he doesn't know when to leave well-enough alone, and because his track record at the draft doesn't support his so-called strength (the much ballyhooed "eye for talent").

And again Mark Fischel... how do you, 200 miles away in Miami, know more about a trade between TAMPA and NEW YORK than the beat writer in Tampa Bay?

Jones is right, and we have our OWN sources to back that up. It happened. Sorry the Lightning didn't feel fit to clue someone in Miami into their internal affairs, but it did happen.

Rip Dudley all you want, but rip him on credible information and trades that did happen, and not on hear-say.

Its a published newspaper report, not hear-say.

BTW, I saw your petty little hatchet job on Vincent Lecavalier on the Panthers board before either you or Heimy erased it... something to the effect of Dudley would never try to trade Luongo because unlike Lecavalier he isn't a spoiled crybaby in the locker room?

Funny, but last I checked Vincent Lecavalier didn't ask to be paid more than any other player at his position (over $8M) after finishing 8 games under .500. So if disagreeing with the way Torts was using the media against him (and never retaliating through the media until this season showing amazing restraint btw) makes Lecavalier a "spoiled crybaby" then I guess Luongo's ridiculous contract demands make him a "greedy *******".

-Pete Choquette

Dudley gets fired everywhere he goes.... what's with that?

He's a prospect compiler, not a GM. He grabs every high to mid range prospect he can get ahold of and prays that the blind squirrel theorem will hold true and that one or two will pan out. That's why for every Dan Boyle there are three Marek Posmyks or Mathieu Birons.

And that might be OK except for the fact he never stops compiling. He won't stop turning over his roster, constantly turning over what he has in youth for more youth in a downward spiraling pattern of stupidity (see: trying to trade Cory Sarich and Vincent Lecavalier), all the while telling the fans himself and through the PR spin machine that every prospect he gets is the next big thing... except they rarely are. In fact, 66% of the guys he brings in don't even become servicable NHLers... which means the rebuilding process under him goes on in perpetuity, languishing in or near the front row of the draft.

-Pete Choquette

Not a very good scout either. I.E. Trading for Kevin Weekes over Luongo, and his obsession with Matthieu Biron (giving up ADRIAN F***ING AUCOIN).


The Aucoin deal was motivated by $. You really can't hold that against Dudley.

The Aucoin deal was motivated by $. You really can't hold that against Dudley.

Yes, actually we can. Dudley was told to cut payroll. He wasn't told how. Instead of using what money he had available to sign an invaluable guy like Aucoin, he instead opted to sign useless stiffs like Brian Holzinger and Matt Barnaby to long-term deals worth millions. You know why? Because Aucoin could fetch a "prize" prospect like Matt Biron as well as a pick, whereas Barnaby and Holzinger would've fetched only the pick alone. The Aucoin deal was an egregious misuse of resources that came to pass only because of Dudley's inability to wisely allocate funds (see ridiculously overinflated scouting budget) and his fetish for prospects.

And again Mark Fischel... how do you, 200 miles away in Miami, know more about a trade between TAMPA and NEW YORK than the beat writer in Tampa Bay?

Jones is right, and we have our OWN sources to back that up. It happened. Sorry the Lightning didn't feel fit to clue someone in Miami into their internal affairs, but it did happen.



Its a published newspaper report, not hear-say.

BTW, I saw your petty little hatchet job on Vincent Lecavalier on the Panthers board before either you or Heimy erased it... something to the effect of Dudley would never try to trade Luongo because unlike Lecavalier he isn't a spoiled crybaby in the locker room?

Funny, but last I checked Vincent Lecavalier didn't ask to be paid more than any other player at his position (over $8M) after finishing 8 games under .500. So if disagreeing with the way Torts was using the media against him (and never retaliating through the media until this season showing amazing restraint btw) makes Lecavalier a "spoiled crybaby" then I guess Luongo's ridiculous contract demands make him a "greedy *******".

-Pete Choquette

Well, lets see. My wife worked in the Panthers front office directly under every GM of the Panthers up to Dudley, and I did some work for the Islanders several years ago and I have discussed the Luongo trade with Murray, Dudley and people in the Islanders as well.

I know the details of the trade to get Luongo and what it took, I have discussed Luongo with Dudley, and I know the details about Luongo getting traded, and never once from three parties did it come up that Luongo was made available to anyone else other than Bryan Murray. I cleaned out Murray's office and sat with the man at his house the week he was fired and discussed his tenure with the Panthers and some of the trades, including the Luongo deal.

I have had many discussions with Dudley about the Panthers roster and about how trades are made and about the business. That included about how the team was built and past deals. The poeple I know at the Islanders also were in complete shock about the deal and confirmed how Luongo was shopped to only the Panthers.

I will take my sources who were the actual poeple involved in this actual trade over a TB beat-writer and some fan-boys who will clamor over any misinformation to make themselves feel better about a rival team. If there is one deal I know about, it is the Luongo deal and I know it from three different parties.

I know Bryan Murrays side, I know Rick Dudleys take on the trade, and I know poeple in the kow at the Islanders. Dont know hwo much more I need.

I don't care if you guys want to get your hate on for Dudley, I can care less about your amusing obsession over the guy. I am not even a Panthers fan anymore in fact, but I will take my knoweldege of his topic and only care to go on record with the details on this trade because I know that Tampa Bay never had a shot at Luongo ever.

As for Vinny, I know the story about the kid and they are hilarious...enjoy your sweet prince.

This bit about Dudley having a chance to get Luongo is a complete farce. This isnt a defend Dudley bit on my part because I have no allegiance to Dudley.

Luongo was never made available to teams because Bryan Murray and Mike Milbury had been discussing this deal for a couple of months before it happened, and it was made clear that there would be no deal if Milbury went shopping around for better deals.

I know this from Bryan Murray himself and front office people within the Islanders who knew all the facts when this deal was getting discussed.

This belief that dudley passed up Luongo is kinda funny and based on nothing substantial, and is almost as credible as Panther fans who insisted that Bryan Murray called Chris Wells the next Eric Lindros...it is passed on and spread like wildfire and based on false information.

Rip Dudley all you want, but rip him on credible information and trades that did happen, and not on hear-say.

:bow:

As for Vinny, I know the story about the kid and they are hilarious...enjoy your sweet prince.

More hearsay? Jeez.

The Aucoin deal was motivated by $. You really can't hold that against Dudley.


Yet Dudley and now Feaster have been working under the SAME ownership. 1 seems to get it done and the other doesnt go figure.

The Aucoin deal was motivated with extreme love of a certain prospect on the Isles team namely Biron. This love is very well documented since we all know about quotes such as

Clearly been the lightnings best defenseman in many game.


And than we know how eager he was to get a hold of him when Feaster exposed him in the waiverdraft that he went out and got another team to claim him for him to get him in a trade etc all that is history. And we said Biron is a marshmallow a la creampuff before he played his 1st game as a panther.

You can and should hold the Aucoin deal against him just as you should hold the Barnaby deal for Ciger against him just as you should hold this and that deal against him. If you want i have all the DETAILS regarding his dealings. and some worked out great. Others worked out like total garbage with Lightning losing value for nothing.

Who in their right minds would discuss a trade for "a couple of months" and throw it off if interfered with..especially with the undervalue Milbury got in return. Secondly..how would anyone other than Dudley and Milbury know about an inquiry that was made at that point in time; to throw off a deal? I know that the Weekes deal was known atleast a day before the Luongo deal was made, so I think its fair to speculate Dudley atleast inquired about Luongo while satisfying his fetish for additional picks and prospects.

..and why does it take "a couple of months" to make a trade anyways? Only four players traded hands..was it really that difficult for mad Mike Milbury to pull the trigger on this one? Since you seem to know everything that there is to be known about the situation, maybe you could explain the dealio?

Ok, deep breath. I will try and say this again diplomatically.

Why, Mark Fischel, are you under the mistaken impression your wife, or anyone in the Panthers organization for that matter, would be privy to trade discussions between the Lightning 200 miles away and the Islanders who are, oh 950 or so miles away I think?

The fact remains Tom Jones was a lot closer to the story than you (or any of your alleged "sources" for that matter, and he is a credentialed reporter (unlike you). And that's not hear say... that's hard real world documentation (which Dudley has never publicly refuted btw).

As for Vinny, I know the story about the kid and they are hilarious...enjoy your sweet prince.

And he's four games away from raising the cup above his head... so he who laughs last laughs best.

BTW, you might want to throw something over that... your jealousy is showing.

Oh and Sotnos, that kind of personal player bashing unsourced inuendo, last I checked, was a big no no on HFBoards.

-Pete Choquette

Oh and Sotnos, that kind of personal player bashing unsourced inuendo, last I checked, was a big no no on HFBoards.
Well, he thankfully didn't share any actual stories with us, so it's OK. I'm sure we've all heard stories on the other end of the spectrum from people who know Vinny, and I know which side I believe.

Let me add: if we're supposedly "obsessed" with having a "hate on" for Dudley, the same can be said about many Panther fans and Lecavalier.

Indeed.

And btw, the point still stands, Luongo is a greedy *******.

:joker:

-Pete Choquette

Indeed.

And btw, the point still stands, Luongo is a greedy *******.

:joker:

-Pete Choquette

Actually its his agent requesting the money.

And who does the agent represent?

I remember Dudley sicking the entire organiztion's PR might on Vinny and his agent just for asking for half what Luongo asked for.

:joker:

-Pete Choquette

And who does the agent represent?

Luongo but that has no importance. The poster above said it was Luongo asking for money, when it was his agent. :teach: :shakehead

Ok, deep breath. I will try and say this again diplomatically.

Why, Mark Fischel, are you under the mistaken impression your wife, or anyone in the Panthers organization for that matter, would be privy to trade discussions between the Lightning 200 miles away and the Islanders who are, oh 950 or so miles away I think?

The fact remains Tom Jones was a lot closer to the story than you (or any of your alleged "sources" for that matter, and he is a credentialed reporter (unlike you). And that's not hear say... that's hard real world documentation (which Dudley has never publicly refuted btw).

-Pete Choquette

Deep breath, and I will try not to make it to hard.

First off, I was a credentialed writer with NHL access and credentials. I covered several drafts and I have been published in CNNSI.com and FoxSports.com, as well as providing material for the Florida Panthers and New York Islanders. The same credentials that beat writers recieve, I recieved as well.

As for your argument about me being 200 miles away and 950 miles away. What does that matter? Phones and connections work the same for national and local writers, including myself. Personal relationshipswork the same way. Does this mean that national writers journalistic works are meaningless because they dont live int he city where things happen? Wow, all those articles are meaningless because PC declares them to be...

Again, I know people at the Islanders and my assertion that Dudley never had a chance to realistically ever grab Luongo is correct and confirmed. regardless of miles (which is the weakest argument I have yet to hear from you)

Pete, I enjoy you questioning my credentials without having a clue how the media business seems to work, despite your occasional contribution to Hf and your stellar work on a message board.

Enjoy the Finals and the chance that the Lightning have to grab the Cup.

I don't need to explain my credentials and experiene anymore to a fanboy like yourself, and I am quite confident that my sources from THREE different parties, all of whom were directly involved in this trade that never happened that you are grasping at to keep your incoherent hate-on for Dudley even stronger.

And don't try to play this off as me defending Dudley, because I dont care about the man or the Panthers.

First off, I was a credentialed writer with NHL access and credentials.

Were you in Tampa? Were you in New York?

Look, it basically comes down to your word against Tom Jones of the St Pete Times. Tom Jones was the beat writer for the Lightning working for one of the 10 best independent papers in the country working IN TAMPA. You, on the other hand, worked on the internet (a decidedly less prestigious post) 200 miles away in Miami.

Who is to be believed?

Conjecture and inuendo aside (because I can play the inside source game too) whose word carries more weight?

I think anybody who reads this thread will know by your attempted hatchet job on Lecavalier alone that you clearly have an axe to grind here. Tom Jones doesn't... as evidenced by his ongoing friendship with Dudley and by the fact the story dropped not in some "anti-Dudley, anti-Panther" diatribe but rather in a rather harmless game recap.

So who is to be believed?

I don't need to explain my credentials

Because you don't have any anymore.

I am quite confident that my sources from THREE different parties

Uh huh. First it was two, now its THREE! When I get back here tomorrow, will it be five Mark?

-Pete Choquette

Uh huh. First it was two, now its THREE! When I get back here tomorrow, will it be five Mark?

-Pete Choquette

You really might be daft. Dudley, Murray, and the Islander source.

Go back to your little obsession Pete and the constant straw-mah arguments, really the only thing that suits a person like you.

I think anybody who reads this thread will know by your attempted hatchet job on Lecavalier alone that you clearly have an axe to grind here. Tom Jones doesn't... as evidenced by his ongoing friendship with Dudley and by the fact the story dropped not in some "anti-Dudley, anti-Panther" diatribe but rather in a rather harmless game recap.

So who is to be believed?


I like your constant bringing up of a post that was up for less than one minute and I deleted it because it was off-topic and didnt bring anything to the point I was making.

But if you want to use something like that, please go ahead because it makes you seem more desperate to discredit me, go ahead fanboy.

I think you two can take it to PMs now.