A trade in the works?

This morning, I actually did hear a rumor that the NYR are attempting to package two players and TOR Pick (Or one Player, TOR pick, and some combination of 2nd round picks - depending upon the team in question) to one of the teams in the top 5 for their pick and a 3rd round pick. There are three teams being talked to: PIT, PHX, and CBJ.

I would be VERY surprised if Columbus trades that pick, as I know they highly regard two specific players in this draft. However, I've been told that PIT and PHX have some interest and may bite.

This could be all rumor - but I suspect, based on where I heard it - that there is some validity to it. That said, do not be shocked if NYR end up with 2 of the 1st six picks. Likely - not really. Distinctly possible - INDEED.

That sounds great to me. I would assume at least one of those players would be Lundmark or Poti - my bet is that it's Lundmark and a quality prospect?

If we could do that I would be very happy... I might just start to like Sather... probably not, but ya never know :) I wouldn't be surprised if Pitt was involved because they didn't want to give big money to the 2nd player picked, or Phoenix would be logical. Money would probably be sent as well if it was Pitt...

Thanks for the interesting rumor :banana:

I'm curious, where did you hear that?

That sounds great to me. I would assume at least one of those players would be Lundmark or Poti - my bet is that it's Lundmark and a quality prospect?

If we could do that I would be very happy... I might just start to like Sather... probably not, but ya never know :) I wouldn't be surprised if Pitt was involved because they didn't want to give big money to the 2nd player picked, or Phoenix would be logical. Money would probably be sent as well if it was Pitt...

Thanks for the interesting rumor :banana:

I think Columbus would be interested in Poti. At the deadline they were rumored to be chasing Ron Hainsey. If Pitt moves their pick they are absolutely insane. I would love to grab Malkin.

I just hope they are after Tukonen and Schremp, but I have a bad feeling that they want Olesz and Ladd. If it is the later then I am not sure I want that, rather move up in mid teens and get Chipchura or stay where we are and pick someone like Wheeler or Soderberg. But it is a good thing that they show commitment to youth movement, and I hope Poti is one of the players involved.

I'm curious, where did you hear that?

You may or may not have noticed, but there are a few "insiders" who frequented this board. EDGE, PARK#2 and SOTI are posters who have given us some inside information from time to time. Obviously, they are limited in the scope of how much can be revealed. But, for we the Ranger brood salivating for any morsel of info we can get, they do provide for us. The trade deadline has been a very interesting day of reading over the years.

I just hope they are after Tukonen and Schremp, but I have a bad feeling that they want Olesz and Ladd.
That's a good feeling not a bad feeling. Netting both Olesz and Ladd in the first round (instead of Tukonen & Schremp) would be a great beginning to the draft and a serious step into the right direction as far as a rebuild goes.

This morning, I actually did hear a rumor that the NYR are attempting to package two players and TOR Pick (Or one Player, TOR pick, and some combination of 2nd round picks - depending upon the team in question) to one of the teams in the top 5 for their pick and a 3rd round pick. There are three teams being talked to: PIT, PHX, and CBJ.

I would be VERY surprised if Columbus trades that pick, as I know they highly regard two specific players in this draft. However, I've been told that PIT and PHX have some interest and may bite.

This could be all rumor - but I suspect, based on where I heard it - that there is some validity to it. That said, do not be shocked if NYR end up with 2 of the 1st six picks. Likely - not really. Distinctly possible - INDEED.

TGO has always been very public about his admiration for Lundmark. It would not shock me to see a package of Lundmark, the #26 pick and a 2nd for their pick.

I remember someone (Edge maybe?) mentioning that the Rangers really liked Malkin. If thats true, then maybe Sather is going to try and make the big splash. It wouldn't shock me. For the first time in a long time the Rangers have a number of valuable assets when you consider the picks and prospect depth. I think Sather will make the move if it's there to make - we all know he seems to like making big trades - and of course looking like a genius. One day someone had better rip that fat cigar out of his mouth...

I just hope they are after Tukonen and Schremp, but I have a bad feeling that they want Olesz and Ladd. If it is the later then I am not sure I want that, rather move up in mid teens and get Chipchura or stay where we are and pick someone like Wheeler or Soderberg. But it is a good thing that they show commitment to youth movement, and I hope Poti is one of the players involved.

If they move to 2 its Malkin. If they move to three its either Olesz or Barker. If they take Barker, the 6th pick is definitely a winger. If they take Olesz or Malkin, do they go for Thelen with the 6th or add another top 6 forward?

I just hope they are after Tukonen and Schremp, but I have a bad feeling that they want Olesz and Ladd. If it is the later then I am not sure I want that, rather move up in mid teens and get Chipchura or stay where we are and pick someone like Wheeler or Soderberg. But it is a good thing that they show commitment to youth movement, and I hope Poti is one of the players involved.

If Sather took Tukonen-Schremp over Olesz-Ladd, then he would deserve to get tar and feathered...

That's a good feeling not a bad feeling. Netting both Olesz and Ladd in the first round (instead of Tukonen & Schremp) would be a great beginning to the draft and a serious step into the right direction as far as a rebuild goes.

Yeah, that would really stink if we came away with two frontline players that fit the Rangers needs like Olesz and Ladd. :shakehead

Hopefully something lousy like Poti getting traded for another #1 pick will also happen. :banana:

You may or may not have noticed, but there are a few "insiders" who frequented this board. EDGE, PARK#2 and SOTI are posters who have given us some inside information from time to time. Obviously, they are limited in the scope of how much can be revealed. But, for we the Ranger brood salivating for any morsel of info we can get, they do provide for us. The trade deadline has been a very interesting day of reading over the years.

Oh no... I didn't know that. Thanks.

If Sather took Tukonen-Schremp over Olesz-Ladd, then he would deserve to get tar and feathered...

Why? Because Olesz and Ladd are so overhyped?

That's a good feeling not a bad feeling. Netting both Olesz and Ladd in the first round (instead of Tukonen & Schremp) would be a great beginning to the draft and a serious step into the right direction as far as a rebuild goes.
maybe your new to the way the rangers organization works for the past few months but the rangers have already taken a serious step towards rebuilding and have a system of kids playing in the ahl semi-finals right now. also they traded a ton of veterans at the deadline and added a few nice prospects that have an nhl future ahead of them. maybe you missed it. the rangers system is 25 prospects deep right now.

if you have questions about prospects or the way the team is run just pm me i would be happy to answer your questions :)

That's a good feeling not a bad feeling. Netting both Olesz and Ladd in the first round (instead of Tukonen & Schremp) would be a great beginning to the draft and a serious step into the right direction as far as a rebuild goes.

I prefer Tukonen and Schremp over Olesz and Ladd. Higher ceiling, almost a year younger, plus Tukonen is considered NHL ready.

maybe you missed it. the rangers system is 25 prospects deep right now.

if you have questions about prospects or the way the team is run just pm me i would be happy to answer your questions :)
The Rangers system has an utter lack of front-line prospects and is curretnly ladden w/ future 3rd/4th liners. Until that changes, this teams fortune is not going to change.
And I've recieved enougn PM's from you to want to limit our conversations as much as possible.

I prefer Tukonen and Schremp over Olesz and Ladd. Higher ceiling, almost a year younger, plus Tukonen is considered NHL ready.

You would probably be in the minority of most posters here. Given a preference, I'd take Olesz and Ladd. I would probably take Thelen over both Schremp and Tukonen.

Why? Because Olesz and Ladd are so overhyped?

No - Olesz and Ladd are BETTER.

One step further - I'd take Thelan over Tukonen or Schremp as well...

You would probably be in the minority of most posters here. Given a preference, I'd take Olesz and Ladd. I would probably take Thelen over both Schremp and Tukonen.

Does it matter if I am in minority? I would not take any defenseman in the 1st round, we need skilled forwards. I would grab at least one defenseman in 2nd round, hopefully Schultz.

No - Olesz and Ladd are BETTER.

One step further - I'd take Thelan over Tukonen or Schremp as well...

People you are starting to sound like robots who repeat a scripted responses.
Being ranked higher does not necessarily make them better.

Does it matter if I am in minority? I would not take any defenseman in the 1st round, we need skilled forwards. I would grab at least one defenseman in 2nd round, hopefully Schultz.

Take the BEST PLAYER.

I think we overrate our defensive depth a bit. You would pass up Thelan for a lesser player just because of position?

Does it matter if I am in minority? I would not take any defenseman in the 1st round, we need skilled forwards. I would grab at least one defenseman in 2nd round, hopefully Schultz.

No, it doesn't. But, don't be surprised when people disagree with your opinion. I agree we need skilled forwards. However, the more read about Thelen, I admit, if the likes of Olesz or Ladd are not available, he'd be my choice. I've seen quite a few poeple on these boards, whose opinion I respect, say he may be better than Barker. As much as we need forwards, if a potential #1 d-man falls into our lap, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Take the BEST PLAYER.

I think we overrate our defensive depth a bit. You would pass up Thelan for a lesser player just because of position?


Lesser? it is like comparing apples and oranges. It is always much easier to find great defensemen in later rounds, but the only very skilled forwards you will find outside 1st round are those that lack size or that have some serious issues.

I just hope they are after Tukonen and Schremp, but I have a bad feeling that they want Olesz and Ladd. If it is the later then I am not sure I want that, rather move up in mid teens and get Chipchura or stay where we are and pick someone like Wheeler or Soderberg. But it is a good thing that they show commitment to youth movement, and I hope Poti is one of the players involved.

Robbie Schremp? :help:

His stock is dropping like a stone falling off a cliff

The Rangers can do much better than that guy

No, it doesn't. But, don't be surprised when people disagree with your opinion. I agree we need skilled forwards. However, the more read about Thelen, I admit, if the likes of Olesz or Ladd are not available, he'd be my choice. I've seen quite a few poeple on these boards, whose opinion I respect, say he may be better than Barker. As much as we need forwards, if a potential #1 d-man falls into our lap, I'd take him in a heartbeat.


Thelen is a great defenseman, but we really need top line forwards and I am not convinced that Ladd and Olesz have the offensive ability to be top line player in NHL. You only need 6 defensemen on a team, but you need 12 forwards, I am sure we will be able to get an excellend defenseman with one of our 2nd rounders.

Lesser? it is like comparing apples and oranges. It is always much easier to find great defensemen in later rounds, but the only very skilled forwards you will find outside 1st round are those that lack size or that have some serious issues.

Defense and goaltending wins championships. How is it apples and oranges? You'd pass up a top pairing defenseman for a forward... just because of position? Thats very foolish. I wouldn't take a guy like Tukonen over Thelan just because of position. I take Thelan because he's the better player IMO.

It would be nice if true but I doubt the Rangers could pull it off. That being said, if I had to guess who, maybe Pitt is the other team. I could see the Rangers really liking Malkin (who wouldn't). From what I've heard, it's a two horse race and then the others after them, so why not shoot for one of the top two?! Also, as mentioned, maybe Pitt is worried about the signability of Malkin as well as the other issues such as dealing with Russian players and getting them over here to play. Plus, the Rangers could package Poti or Lundmark, with the rights to Umberger and Toronto's pick to possibly get it done.

Anyway, thanks for the info Park 2. Let's hope this comes true.

if they get barker, they dont get ladd and vice versa.

My guess is that they either get Chicago's pick or Phoenix's pick.

Thelen is a great defenseman, but we really need top line forwards and I am not convinced that Ladd and Olesz have the offensive ability to be top line player in NHL. You only need 6 defensemen on a team, but you need 12 forwards, I am sure we will be able to get an excellend defenseman with one of our 2nd rounders.

But you still take the best player available and deal with the ramifications later. If Thelen is the highest player on the Rangers board, they should take him. If that player is Schremp, take him. If there is neglible difference between a forward or a d-man, then take the player that fits a need. But, the theory should be to get the player with the most ability to fit in with an organization's philosophy of building a team.

Yeah, I also used to like Tukonen a lot... but I've also seen enough of him to know he hads to develop his finishing skills. That's the one thing that makes him less NHL-ready. I don't know, I think Ladd is the most NHL-ready. After that Olesz. Then Tukonen... drop-off... Schremp. Olesz, IMO, has the highest ceiling, followed by Tukonen, Schremp and Ladd.

I really doubt the pens trade away the #2 with malkin on the board. He is the bpa @ #2 at a spot that the pens need in their system(1st line bluechip center).

But you still take the best player available and deal with the ramifications later. If Thelen is the highest player on the Rangers board, they should take him. If that player is Schremp, take him. If there is neglible difference between a forward or a d-man, then take the player that fits a need. But, the theory should be to get the player with the most ability to fit in with an organization's philosophy of building a team.


Yes, but do we know that Rangers have Thelen ahead of Tukonen and Schremp on their list? If somebody actually has any idea what Rangers' list looks like, I would like to hear it. But in my opinion Tukonen and Schremp fit our needs. Tukonen a skilled power forward that can score goals; Schremp all around skilled and excellent playmaker something that we been missing lately especially on the PP.

We should trade up and pick Olesz at #3. I think you guys know that I love him by now, and that I think we should do ANYTHING to get him. But then again, I am a little messed up on top...

I really doubt the pens trade away the #2 with malkin on the board. He is the bpa @ #2 at a spot that the pens need in their system(1st line bluechip center).

Don't be so sure.

Thanks Park#2 for the tidbit. I could see a number of scenarios here:

-Slats is after Malkin and offers up two players, Toronto's #1, and a 2nd in this years, or next years draft. Pittsburgh might be thinking that Malkin may be damaged goods because of his concussion, or they feel the draft is what alot of people are saying - not alot of blue chips, just alot of 'hit & misses'.

-The Ranger's want 2 1st's in the top 6 so they can get Ladd and Thelen. In this scenario we'd most likely be dealing with Chicago, Columbus, or Phoenix. I still can't see either of those teams dealing their picks. Plus would they want Poti & Lundmark? I just hope he doesn't do anything crazy and deal next years #1.

Maybe they like Schremp and are trying to get Robbie & Ladd. But looking at what Sather likes in a prospect, i think he'd go for Ladd & Thelen.

by the way, at Younggunshockey.com they rate Tukonen ahead of Thelen, Ladd, and Olesz; and they rate Schremp ahead of Ladd.

by the way, at Younggunshockey.com they rate Tukonen ahead of Thelen, Ladd, and Olesz; and they rate Schremp ahead of Ladd.

And, the CSB had Ladd the # 1 NA skater overall and Olesz way ahead of Tukonen, along with eight other players. None of that matters. What matters is what the Rangers have on their boards. According to a couple of "in-the-know" posters on this board, the Rangers are impressed with Malikn, Olesz, Ladd and Thelen.

I just hope they are after Tukonen and Schremp, but I have a bad feeling that they want Olesz and Ladd. If it is the later then I am not sure I want that, rather move up in mid teens and get Chipchura or stay where we are and pick someone like Wheeler or Soderberg. But it is a good thing that they show commitment to youth movement, and I hope Poti is one of the players involved.

How is that a bad feeling? They take two VERYYYY high risk forwards in Tukonen and Schremp in exchange for the highly skilled and VERY safe (IMHO) Olesz and a pretty safe Ladd.

How is that bad? If you ask me, Olesz >>>> Tukonen (and I've seen them both play) in EVERY aspect of his game (including potential-wise) and Ladd is much safer to being a 2nd round pick then Schremp is to being a 1st/2nd line center.

The Rangers list always seems drastically different than other teams.....Tytuin ranked top 10 by the Rangers but lasted to the second round .... Jessiman top 4 but lasted until pick #13?

Yes, but do we know that Rangers have Thelen ahead of Tukonen and Schremp on their list? If somebody actually has any idea what Rangers' list looks like, I would like to hear it. But in my opinion Tukonen and Schremp fit our needs. Tukonen a skilled power forward that can score goals; Schremp all around skilled and excellent playmaker something that we been missing lately especially on the PP.

I haven't heard that they like Thelen ahead of Tukonen and Schremp, but I have heard that they don't like Schremp at that spot and think Tukonen might be there in the teens. I have NO idea where they rank Thelen at all. I know that Sather is high on Olesz, but it's hard to hear where he has his prospects ranked. All I know is Sather is high on Ladd, Olesz, Lepisto, Barker, and Radulov. Aside from them, I have no idea who is on his radar and where he intends on trying to pick them.

-Slats is after Malkin and offers up two players, Toronto's #1, and a 2nd in this years, or next years draft. Pittsburgh might be thinking that Malkin may be damaged goods because of his concussion, or they feel the draft is what alot of people are saying - not alot of blue chips, just alot of 'hit & misses'.


I dont know. Everytime you read or hear an interview with Craig Patrick(GM) or Greg Malone(Head Scout), they speak extremely glowing of him. They also had a huge article on the pens website on malkin(it may still be there). Malone's answer to the concussion was just look at what he did at the U-18 tourney prob at about 80%. Not that this trade would not be out of the realm of possibility, i just think its close to 1% chance of happening. From the pens standpoint, they have a quantity of prospects ready to play in the NHL(look at AHL team) but most are not considered 1st liners. Most are 2nd/3rd line type guys. The one thing that may side with the trade is the thought of the transfer price being changed. But any new CBA should be more favorable to the small market teams.

The Rangers list always seems drastically different than other teams.....Tytuin ranked top 10 by the Rangers but lasted to the second round .... Jessiman top 4 but lasted until pick #13?

The lists aren't drasitcally different, since ALL teams lists are different. No one team has the same list and most are very different from eachothers. You have some teams who like the CSS and some teams who pick out of left field who trust their own scouts a billion times over than the CSS. Each GM has a different philosophy entering the draft (for example, Edmonton has taken "safe" players a lot in the first round and has seen that fail a number of times, so expect them to take riskier/flashier players this year).

It's all one big ball game.

Yeah, I also used to like Tukonen a lot... but I've also seen enough of him to know he hads to develop his finishing skills. That's the one thing that makes him less NHL-ready. I don't know, I think Ladd is the most NHL-ready. After that Olesz. Then Tukonen... drop-off... Schremp. Olesz, IMO, has the highest ceiling, followed by Tukonen, Schremp and Ladd.

I think that Olesz, Malkin, Thelen, Radulov, and Schremp have the highest celings in the area we'd be picking. Schremp being the highest potential but also maybe the highest risk in a pick.

And Tukonen does need to develop a lot on his finishing skills. And his playmaking skills. And his hockey sense. And... etc.

How is that a bad feeling? They take two VERYYYY high risk forwards in Tukonen and Schremp in exchange for the highly skilled and VERY safe (IMHO) Olesz and a pretty safe Ladd.

How is that bad? If you ask me, Olesz >>>> Tukonen (and I've seen them both play) in EVERY aspect of his game (including potential-wise) and Ladd is much safer to being a 2nd round pick then Schremp is to being a 1st/2nd line center.

I don't have much problem with Ladd, but I think Olesz is very risky and I would stay away from him.

I don't have much problem with Ladd, but I think Olesz is very risky and I would stay away from him.

I don't see where you get he's risky from. I think he;s one of the safest players in the draft to make the NHL and produce day after day. He, Malkin, AO, and Ladd are the four safest picks I think you can make AND expect to produce around on at least the 2nd line area.

If Olesz is there at #6, I think the rangers would def take him over any other prospect still available. I think they will also heavily look at Tukonen and Radulov, as I think those two will be the more realistic BPA at #6. Olesz most likely goes #3, but i believe the furthest he falls is #4.

Each GM has a different philosophy entering the draft (for example, Edmonton has taken "safe" players a lot in the first round and has seen that fail a number of times, so expect them to take riskier/flashier players this year).

Not sure i agree with ya here.

Edmonton has taken Riesen, Henrich, Rita, Mikhnov, Hemsky, Niinimaki, Pouliot with their last 7 first rounders. With the exception of Pouliot, the others were all riskier/flashier players.

I dont know. Everytime you read or hear an interview with Craig Patrick(GM) or Greg Malone(Head Scout), they speak extremely glowing of him. They also had a huge article on the pens website on malkin(it may still be there). Malone's answer to the concussion was just look at what he did at the U-18 tourney prob at about 80%. Not that this trade would not be out of the realm of possibility, i just think its close to 1% chance of happening. From the pens standpoint, they have a quantity of prospects ready to play in the NHL(look at AHL team) but most are not considered 1st liners. Most are 2nd/3rd line type guys. The one thing that may side with the trade is the thought of the transfer price being changed. But any new CBA should be more favorable to the small market teams.

I agree, it's probably not the scenario if the Rangers are talking trade.
It's gotta be one of Columbus, Phoenix, Chicago.

I don't see where you get he's risky from. I think he;s one of the safest players in the draft to make the NHL and produce day after day. He, Malkin, AO, and Ladd are the four safest picks I think you can make AND expect to produce around on at least the 2nd line area.


I call a guy who gets a major concussion and only able to score 1 goal in 35 games very risky. Even Jiri Novotny has outscored Olesz in Czech league and he can barely score 2 goals in AHL.

I call a guy who gets a major concussion and only able to score 1 goal in 35 games very risky. Even Jiri Novotny has outscored Olesz in Czech league and he can barely score 2 goals in AHL.
It's a helluva alot harder to score when your coach wants you to focus on defense, and are the guy that other teams want to shut down. Do a little more research before speaking.

It's a helluva alot harder to score when your coach wants you to focus on defense, and are the guy that other teams want to shut down. Do a little more research before speaking.


Here are Olesz's stats:

Year Team League GP G A PTS +/- PIM
99-00 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 48 23 20 43 +35 56
00-01 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 46 49 29 78 +72 73
00-01 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 3 0 1 1 +1 0
01-02 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 36 21 20 41 +33 81
01-02 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 11 1 2 3 11
01-02 U18 Czech 84 4 4 1 5 4
02-03 8 Nations Czech 85 5 3 1 4 8
02-03 4 Nations Czech 83 3 0 1 1 0
02-03 5 Nations Czech 85 4 1 5 6 10
02-03 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 7 1 1 2 12
02-03 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 40 6 3 9 +3 41
2003 U18 WJC Czech 85 6 2 3 5 -4 4
03-04 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 35 1 11 12 +6 10
03-04 HC Vitkovice Czech E(PO's) 6 2 1 3 +1 4
2004 WJC Czech Extra 6 3 2 5 +4 6

Last year in 7 junior games he only got 2 points, where was his brilliant skill? or was he also supposed to play a defensive role? One thing I could tell right away is that he is extremely inconsistant. He had one amazing season in juniors and that probably got him all the hype, but then his numbers were never even close to that.

by the way, at Younggunshockey.com they rate Tukonen ahead of Thelen, Ladd, and Olesz; and they rate Schremp ahead of Ladd.

That might be... Olesz, Ladd & Thelen are still ahead of Tukonen. Then Radulov.

Lesser? it is like comparing apples and oranges. It is always much easier to find great defensemen in later rounds, but the only very skilled forwards you will find outside 1st round are those that lack size or that have some serious issues.


This actually does make a good deal of sense... I think we should hold off on a DF until the 2nd round. Tesliuk? Lepisto? I like Yemelin A LOT, too.

I disagree on Schremp-Tukonen, however... If we (hyothetically) get Barker at 3 or 4, Olesz is gone, I'd really look hard @ Tukonen & Radulov.

Schremp will fall... no lower than no. 14, IMO. But, he will fall. So, if we can't go higher, maybe try to trade with ATL, LA or MIN to get Schremp... even then, is it worth it?

Someone mentioned Olesz/Thelen... that'd be awesome :banana:

Someone mentioned Olesz/Thelen... that'd be awesome :banana:

That thought could give me a wet dream :p

Yes, but do we know that Rangers have Thelen ahead of Tukonen and Schremp on their list? If somebody actually has any idea what Rangers' list looks like, I would like to hear it. But in my opinion Tukonen and Schremp fit our needs. Tukonen a skilled power forward that can score goals; Schremp all around skilled and excellent playmaker something that we been missing lately especially on the PP.

Schremp is not skilled all-around... as of now he's a one-dimensional, one-trick pony, you know?

wow, you guys really overhype a prospect to death.

Even if I am wrong and Olesz is better than Tukonen it is by a tiny fraction at this point.

If they move to 2 its Malkin. If they move to three its either Olesz or Barker. If they take Barker, the 6th pick is definitely a winger. If they take Olesz or Malkin, do they go for Thelen with the 6th or add another top 6 forward?

thelen would definitely become a possibility at that point, but it really depends on what players are still on the board. there is a chance that 1 of the guys you had ranked in the top 5 will still be there at #6 in which case you gotta grab that guy...

and also there are several forwards with tremendous upsides, but who are considered a bit of a risky pick...if that is your 2nd pick then you can afford to be a bit more gutsy on that 2nd pick and go for the grandslam

thelen would definitely become a possibility at that point, but it really depends on what players are still on the board. there is a chance that 1 of the guys you had ranked in the top 5 will still be there at #6 in which case you gotta grab that guy...

and also there are several forwards with tremendous upsides, but who are considered a bit of a risky pick...if that is your 2nd pick then you can afford to be a bit more gutsy on that 2nd pick and go for the grandslam

exactly, i think that if you can go out and get a guy like Malkin or Olesz with an early pick then you should really look into trying to hit a grandslam. I know everyone would be screaming Thelen, but if you can get a guy like Radulov or Schremp who could be future art ross winners then its definetly something you MUST look into

exactly, i think that if you can go out and get a guy like Malkin or Olesz with an early pick then you should really look into trying to hit a grandslam. I know everyone would be screaming Thelen, but if you can get a guy like Radulov or Schremp who could be future art ross winners then its definetly something you MUST look into

And you have to weigh that with the fact that they could be complete busts and you've just set your rebuilding back.

And you also have to look into the fact that both Radulov and Schremp have some serious character flaws which could be highly magnified in a unique city like NY.

And you have to weigh that with the fact that they could be complete busts and you've just set your rebuilding back.

And you also have to look into the fact that both Radulov and Schremp have some serious character flaws which could be highly magnified in a unique city like NY.

how much that would hurt depends on how much we'd have to give up for that other pick...if that trade ends up being cheaper than expected than it makes it alot easier to take that risk...

Here are Olesz's stats:

Year Team League GP G A PTS +/- PIM
99-00 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 48 23 20 43 +35 56
00-01 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 46 49 29 78 +72 73
00-01 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 3 0 1 1 +1 0
01-02 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 36 21 20 41 +33 81
01-02 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 11 1 2 3 11
01-02 U18 Czech 84 4 4 1 5 4
02-03 8 Nations Czech 85 5 3 1 4 8
02-03 4 Nations Czech 83 3 0 1 1 0
02-03 5 Nations Czech 85 4 1 5 6 10
02-03 HC Vitkovice Czech Jr. 7 1 1 2 12
02-03 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 40 6 3 9 +3 41
2003 U18 WJC Czech 85 6 2 3 5 -4 4
03-04 HC Vitkovice Czech Extra 35 1 11 12 +6 10
03-04 HC Vitkovice Czech E(PO's) 6 2 1 3 +1 4
2004 WJC Czech Extra 6 3 2 5 +4 6

Last year in 7 junior games he only got 2 points, where was his brilliant skill? or was he also supposed to play a defensive role? One thing I could tell right away is that he is extremely inconsistant. He had one amazing season in juniors and that probably got him all the hype, but then his numbers were never even close to that.
What prospect doesn't have consistency problems? And, Olesz is miles ahead of Tukonen. Look at what he did at the World Juniors! Or is that crappy to you?

What prospect doesn't have consistency problems? And, Olesz is miles ahead of Tukonen. Look at what he did at the World Juniors! Or is that crappy to you?

Tukonen had 11 points in 6 games in Wold Juniors so why don't you do some research before you speak?

Tukonen had 11 points in 6 games in Wold Juniors so why don't you do some research before you speak?
Compare the stats during their regular seasons, Olesz, if he got the time Tukonen did, would have averaged a point a game.

Tukonen had 11 points in 6 games in Wold Juniors so why don't you do some research before you speak?


No at the U18 World Juniors Tukonen had 11 points in 6 games. He had 3 points in 7 games at the real World Juniors.

No at the U18 World Juniors Tukonen had 11 points in 6 games. He had 3 points in 7 games at the real World Juniors.
Prucha, do some research before you speak!

People: :shakehead

No at the U18 World Juniors Tukonen had 11 points in 6 games. He had 3 points in 7 games at the real World Juniors.

Olesz had 5 poins big deal, he is a year older, and a year ago at U18 he only managed 5 points.

Olesz had 5 poins big deal, he is a year older, and a year ago at U18 he only managed 5 points.


Well Tukonen didn't even play for the U18 WJ team a year ago.

Well Tukonen didn't even play for the U18 WJ team a year ago.

What is your point? he was 16 a year ago and he wasn't an overhyped prospect that Olesz was, he got better gradually.

Tukonen=BUST!
Olesz=Star
Easy for you to understand Prucha?

Tukonen=BUST!
Olesz=Star
Easy for you to understand Prucha?


Little kid, post something intelligent for a change if you are capable of it.

Little kid, post something intelligent for a change if you are capable of it.
And you have posted something intelligent!?!?!? I haven't seen it, show me where it is!

kid, you are a genius, you are right, Olesz will be a star someday, and Tukonen will suck
Why, thank you!

im all for Olesz, Tukonen reminds me of another Jessiman...BOOM or BUST type (not that its a bad thing i just want to be sure with what were getting this time)...Schremp reminds me too much of Daniel Tkaczuk

im all for Olesz, Tukonen reminds me of another Jessiman...BOOM or BUST type (not that its a bad thing i just want to be sure with what were getting this time)...
You are completely right, we need a sure-fire player, dammit!

"You kids shouldn't play so rough. Somebody's gonna start cryin'."

I think it needs to be said to some of you newer posters. This board used to be a respectable place open to discussion, not some place for people to tell each other that they have coodies. Just cause the Rangers decided to rebuild with kids, doesn't mean our hockeysfuture board needed to. So play nice kiddies, or go play on the newyorkrangerscafe board.

"You kids shouldn't play so rough. Somebody's gonna start cryin'."

I think it needs to be said to some of you newer posters. This board used to be a respectable place open to discussion, not some place for people to tell each other that they have coodies. Just cause the Rangers decided to rebuild with kids, doesn't mean our hockeysfuture board needed to. So play nice kiddies, or go play on the newyorkrangerscafe board.

:handclap:

"You kids shouldn't play so rough. Somebody's gonna start cryin'."

I think it needs to be said to some of you newer posters. This board used to be a respectable place open to discussion, not some place for people to tell each other that they have coodies. Just cause the Rangers decided to rebuild with kids, doesn't mean our hockeysfuture board needed to. So play nice kiddies, or go play on the newyorkrangerscafe board.

Ya i noticed that, it seems like now if you don't have the same opinion as someone, you MUST be wrong, like c'mon guys. Use intelligence and facts, not insults. If Prucha believes Tukonen is the better prospect, it doesn't make him wrong, just means he sees different things.

Ya i noticed that, it seems like now if you don't have the same opinion as someone, you MUST be wrong, like c'mon guys. Use intelligence and facts, not insults. If Prucha believes Tukonen is the better prospect, it doesn't make him wrong, just means he sees different things.


Thanks, only time will tell who is really a better prospect, lets just hope Sather makes wise decisions. Also I don't think Tukonen is a boom or bust I think he is relatively very safe and can play anywhere from 1st to 4th line, because he checks and plays solid defense--unlike Jessiman who if not 1st liner then he will unlikely stick in NHL.

Thanks, only time will tell who is really a better prospect, lets just hope Sather makes wise decisions. Also I don't think Tukonen is a boom or bust I think he is relatively very safe and can play anywhere from 1st to 4th line, because he checks and plays solid defense--unlike Jessiman who if not 1st liner then he will unlikely stick in NHL.


Ya Tukonen is far from a boom or bust kid. While yes he all prospects are risky, Tukonen is fairly safe due to his ability to be physical, offencive and his immense drive and conditioning. Lets remember while Jessimen is huge, and the talent is there, he's far from refined or NHL ready, Tukonen is. Also Jessimen has poor conditioning and no one is sure if his skills can continue into the NHL.

While I understand the desire for Olesz, believe me I have it too, i would hardly say Tukoen is much of a step down, in fact I'd argue Tukonen is one of the best snipers in the draft, AND he's physical and dominates, if he was a LW he'd be ahead of Ladd on ranger fans wish list

Ya Tukonen is far from a boom or bust kid. While yes he all prospects are risky, Tukonen is fairly safe due to his ability to be physical, offencive and his immense drive and conditioning. Lets remember while Jessimen is huge, and the talent is there, he's far from refined or NHL ready, Tukonen is. Also Jessimen has poor conditioning and no one is sure if his skills can continue into the NHL.

While I understand the desire for Olesz, believe me I have it too, i would hardly say Tukoen is much of a step down, in fact I'd argue Tukonen is one of the best snipers in the draft, AND he's physical and dominates, if he was a LW he'd be ahead of Ladd on ranger fans wish list

Everywhere I look Tukonen is listed either as F or W, does that mean he can play either side or they just don't know his position for sure?

Everywhere I look Tukonen is listed either as F or W, does that mean he can play either side or they just don't know his position for sure?


TUkonen is primarily a RW, the biggest reason he hasn't gotten consideration for the rangers. F W just means he's a forward and a winger.

TUkonen is primarily a RW, the biggest reason he hasn't gotten consideration for the rangers. F W just means he's a forward and a winger.

I know what F and W is :) So can he play LW? he is a right hand shot, so it would give him better shooting angle, but he would have to make more backhanded passes.

I know what F and W is :) So can he play LW? he is a right hand shot, so it would give him better shooting angle, but he would have to make more backhanded passes.

I'm sure he could, but his NATURAL spot is RW, i'd prefer not to mess with it unless the guy has experience at LW and enjoys it like Jessimen.

if they get barker, they dont get ladd and vice versa.

My guess is that they either get Chicago's pick or Phoenix's pick.

I don't see any possible scenario where they get both Ladd and Barker. Columbus will end up with one of those players in my opinion.

I still just have a hunch (no info whatsoever) that the Rangers are going to wind up with Olesz and EITHER Barker/Thelan or Ladd. It just seems to me, that based on the type of players that they seem to be targeted in this rebuilding, that Olesz might be the guy. I also think that there might be something to the Stafford talk - but I still would be weary of taking him with the 6th pick.

I don't see any possible scenario where they get both Ladd and Barker. Columbus will end up with one of those players in my opinion.

I still just have a hunch (no info whatsoever) that the Rangers are going to wind up with Olesz and EITHER Barker/Thelan or Ladd. It just seems to me, that based on the type of players that they seem to be targeted in this rebuilding, that Olesz might be the guy. I also think that there might be something to the Stafford talk - but I still would be weary of taking him with the 6th pick.

Let me ask you a question - what have you heard about the Rangers interest in moving Poti? You may have seen a Spector's rumor quoting the Toronto Star that the Rangers are shopping him. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but, I firmly believe that Poti gets moved on draft day, and my hope is that, similar to the COL-CAR deal for Ozolinsh, Poti and a 2nd round pick gets swapped to a team in the early teens for their #1 and a lesser prospect? Or, do you think they might be looking to just rid themselves of him?

I don't see any possible scenario where they get both Ladd and Barker. Columbus will end up with one of those players in my opinion.

I still just have a hunch (no info whatsoever) that the Rangers are going to wind up with Olesz and EITHER Barker/Thelan or Ladd. It just seems to me, that based on the type of players that they seem to be targeted in this rebuilding, that Olesz might be the guy. I also think that there might be something to the Stafford talk - but I still would be weary of taking him with the 6th pick.


And I have a feeling that Columbus is leaning towards barker {no info} but my guess is that if the Rangers get olesz they're going with a defenseman at number 6 {Thelen}.

Let me ask you a question - what have you heard about the Rangers interest in moving Poti? You may have seen a Spector's rumor quoting the Toronto Star that the Rangers are shopping him. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but, I firmly believe that Poti gets moved on draft day, and my hope is that, similar to the COL-CAR deal for Ozolinsh, Poti and a 2nd round pick gets swapped to a team in the early teens for their #1 and a lesser prospect? Or, do you think they might be looking to just rid themselves of him?

I think its certainly a possibility that Poti is moved on draft day. If they were to trade with CHI or CLB, he would certainly be part of any deal of substance.

Personally, i don't buy the stafford rumours. He's not a top 6 pick, probably not even a top 10 pick, I think it was just someone trying to link and get people talking.

As far as the rangers draft, not one person can really say who the rangers will draft, but rather who they think they will. Aquiring guys like Balej and Kondratiev and Rachunek gave the rangers more speed, and I wouldn't be suprised if they did opt for a guy with speed like Radulov. I know most would like Ladd but no matter who they pic we walk out with a good pick so long as its not a stretch, like taking Stafford at #6

I'm sure he could, but his NATURAL spot is RW, i'd prefer not to mess with it unless the guy has experience at LW and enjoys it like Jessimen.

How do you think Tukonen compares to Tuomo Ruutu?

How do you think Tukonen compares to Tuomo Ruutu?

similarly, few think Tukonen will be much better. Personally I think Tukonen is much more offensive while Ruutu has a better defencive game. Kind of hard to compare, but I'd prefer Tukonen over Ruutu

Personally, i don't buy the stafford rumours. He's not a top 6 pick, probably not even a top 10 pick, I think it was just someone trying to link and get people talking.

As far as the rangers draft, not one person can really say who the rangers will draft, but rather who they think they will. Aquiring guys like Balej and Kondratiev and Rachunek gave the rangers more speed, and I wouldn't be suprised if they did opt for a guy with speed like Radulov. I know most would like Ladd but no matter who they pic we walk out with a good pick so long as its not a stretch, like taking Stafford at #6


Who knows, maybe they will, wasn't Jessiman a big reach and was projected to go somewhere in the 20's?

I think its certainly a possibility that Poti is moved on draft day. If they were to trade with CHI or CLB, he would certainly be part of any deal of substance.

Remember one important thing: It's unlikely that any player with any sort of a salary will be moved strictly for a pick with impending CBA. SO, if the Rangers were to trade a player with a salary of over - say 1.7 million - they would have to take back a junk salary to make the deal work.

Who knows, maybe they will, wasn't Jessiman a big reach and was projected to go somewhere in the 20's?

Not really, Jessimen was a stretch, but not by much, plus his ceiling is so high it was hard to pass over. Stafford's ceiling IMO isn't near Jessimen's and would be a BIG stretch to take him at #6, especially with players like Radulov, Schremp, Tukonen/Ladd/ Thelen available, all who are much much more talented

Personally, i don't buy the stafford rumours. He's not a top 6 pick, probably not even a top 10 pick, I think it was just someone trying to link and get people talking.

As far as the rangers draft, not one person can really say who the rangers will draft, but rather who they think they will. Aquiring guys like Balej and Kondratiev and Rachunek gave the rangers more speed, and I wouldn't be suprised if they did opt for a guy with speed like Radulov. I know most would like Ladd but no matter who they pic we walk out with a good pick so long as its not a stretch, like taking Stafford at #6

I would be pretty suprised if Stafford is available after the first 12. His stock is raising.

The Rangers are aquiring certain types of players. Obviously the skills will differ - but they are changing the focus of the organization. That is pretty obious. If I were the Rangers, I wouldn't touch Radulov AT ALL. I think he might be their worst choice of any of the consensus top 8.

How do you think Tukonen compares to Tuomo Ruutu?

Tukonen, in my opinion, has the upside of a Handzus type player. Their games are a bit different - but that "level" of player.

I would be pretty suprised if Stafford is available after the first 12. His stock is raising.

The Rangers are aquiring certain types of players. Obviously the skills will differ - but they are changing the focus of the organization. That is pretty obious. If I were the Rangers, I wouldn't touch Radulov AT ALL. I think he might be their worst choice of any of the consensus top 8.

I beg to differ, while yes all the rangers new prospects are hard working, so is Radulov. Yes he is a bit stone headed and hard to get along with, he is also a great guy on any line, he's fast, skilled and makes his linemates better. Not to mention his game focus and intensity for the game during both game days and practices is exceptional. IMO he's the wildcard of the draft, could go #3, could go #15, but he'll be a star, that i have no doubt of

Tukonen, in my opinion, has the upside of a Handzus type player. Their games are a bit different - but that "level" of player.


That sounds great, Handzus is a great 2 way player that can play on any line.

I beg to differ, while yes all the rangers new prospects are hard working, so is Radulov. Yes he is a bit stone headed and hard to get along with, he is also a great guy on any line, he's fast, skilled and makes his linemates better. Not to mention his game focus and intensity for the game during both game days and practices is exceptional. IMO he's the wildcard of the draft, could go #3, could go #15, but he'll be a star, that i have no doubt of

I, along with many scouts, have many doubts about HIM - not about his skill. You're right - he could be an offensive star - he has the skills. He can also be Alexandr Svitov. To be honest, if they are going to draft a guy with questions around him, I'd rather see them draft Schremp - who has better skills and has the ability to make his linemates better then any player I've seen drafted in the last few years.

That sounds great, Handzus is a great 2 way player that can play on any line.

To be honest though, I think Olesz is even more that type of player. I take Olesz over him any day - and don't think twice. I think Tukonen will go between 8-11.
Olesz doesn't make it beyond 5 in my opinion.

I, along with many scouts, have many doubts about HIM - not about his skill. You're right - he could be an offensive star - he has the skills. He can also be Alexandr Svitov. To be honest, if they are going to draft a guy with questions around him, I'd rather see them draft Schremp - who has better skills and has the ability to make his linemates better then any player I've seen drafted in the last few years.

Oh don't get me wrong I love Schremp, he's my #6 and would take him ahead of Thelen, Barker, Ladd, Tukonen among others, with only Ovech, Malkin and Olesz ahead of him IMO. Schremp IMO could be something absolutely fantastic, and I think he's getting a bad rap just as Ladd is being pumped like he's this great pick.

Oh don't get me wrong I love Schremp, he's my #6 and would take him ahead of Thelen, Barker, Ladd, Tukonen among others, with only Ovech, Malkin and Olesz ahead of him IMO. Schremp IMO could be something absolutely fantastic, and I think he's getting a bad rap just as Ladd is being pumped like he's this great pick.

I think his UPSIDE is higher then any player in this draft, including Ovechkin. I'm not saying I'd take him over him by any means - but he has that ability.

Honestly, I don't THINK the Rangers take him. But I would.

I am overwhelmed by all the contradicting reports. One guy that I think is definitely worth taking is Tukonen, he might not turn out the best of the bunch, but he isn't likely to be a big bust, and yet he has both size and skill and good petential. While he also doesn't have any major weaknesses or character/health problems.

I am overwhelmed by all the contradicting reports. One guy that I think is definitely wort taking is Tukonen, he might not turn out the best of the bunch, but he isn't likely to be a big bust, and yet he has both size and skill and good petential. While he also doesn't have any major weaknesses or character/health problems.

I do not think Tukonen will be a bust. He's a safe pick.

Olesz to me is a bit of ann enigma - I want to love him, he's got so much going for him.... And it's odd - the more that I watch him, the more I like him and the more I would fear picking him. Very odd dynamic.

I do not think Tukonen will be a bust. He's a safe pick.

Olesz to me is a bit of ann enigma - I want to love him, he's got so much going for him.... And it's odd - the more that I watch him, the more I like him and the more I would fear picking him. Very odd dynamic.

Interesting, you mean that you are afraid Rangers will ruin him?

I think Columbus would be interested in Poti. At the deadline they were rumored to be chasing Ron Hainsey. If Pitt moves their pick they are absolutely insane. I would love to grab Malkin.
we DONT want poti. give it up. if you arent the same guy, im sorry, but im sick of ranger fans thinking we want poti, especially the ones on our board. why would we trade for poti when we could draft barker. i dont mean to flame, but i just dont want poti

anyby know if Christer Rockstrom is high on Tukonen? Who are the Rangers' scouts? And who covers what league/region?

we DONT want poti. give it up. if you arent the same guy, im sorry, but im sick of ranger fans thinking we want poti, especially the ones on our board. why would we trade for poti when we could draft barker. i dont mean to flame, but i just dont want poti

Maybe because CLB feels pressure to make the playoffs next year with NSH and the Wild both making it now. That teams needs a good center and a good Dman to play with Klesla. Maybe playing Klesla and Poti togeather will help both players. Yeah Barker could be better, but he isn't gonna help next year like Poti could.

i think my biggest fear with olesz is the fact that he does a little bit of everything, which makes it even harder to swallow if he doesn't pan out and even more disappointing that he was so inconsistent this year. Olesz IMO is right up there with Ovechkin and Malkin but he lacked the consistency of those two.

As for the Radulov debates, I'm gonna shy away from those simply because the argument keeps going in circles. It's hard to make an argument when someone hasn't seen him in person and truly understands the dynamics of his personality and his problems. There's only so many times you can say "Yes I know he's skilled but....."

"You kids shouldn't play so rough. Somebody's gonna start cryin'."

I think it needs to be said to some of you newer posters. This board used to be a respectable place open to discussion, not some place for people to tell each other that they have coodies. Just cause the Rangers decided to rebuild with kids, doesn't mean our hockeysfuture board needed to. So play nice kiddies, or go play on the newyorkrangerscafe board.


:D

i think my biggest fear with olesz is the fact that he does a little bit of everything, which makes it even harder to swallow if he doesn't pan out and even more disappointing that he was so inconsistent this year. Olesz IMO is right up there with Ovechkin and Malkin but he lacked the consistency of those two.

As for the Radulov debates, I'm gonna shy away from those simply because the argument keeps going in circles. It's hard to make an argument when someone hasn't seen him in person and truly understands the dynamics of his personality and his problems. There's only so many times you can say "Yes I know he's skilled but....."


Agree about the curcular arguements on Radulov..ANd it also makes it hard when, unlike his stellar play in International tournaments, the exact nature of his "problems" are hard to pin down and often the result of sketchy reports from overseas or elsewhere.. Suffice it to say, that if a team is considering him, which I hope the Rangers are (but doubt they are), they need to do their homework bigtime with interviews, live-action and game tape out the yin yang...

Anyone else feel their hair starting to hurt?

Thanks, only time will tell who is really a better prospect, lets just hope Sather makes wise decisions. Also I don't think Tukonen is a boom or bust I think he is relatively very safe and can play anywhere from 1st to 4th line, because he checks and plays solid defense--unlike Jessiman who if not 1st liner then he will unlikely stick in NHL.
You are the one bashing me, and getting me riled up, not vice versa, now you are trying to come out like a Saint, and make me the Devil. :madfire:

What is your point? he was 16 a year ago and he wasn't an overhyped prospect that Olesz was, he got better gradually.

Actually Tukonen has been hyped since he was a little kid... So...

I do not think Tukonen will be a bust. He's a safe pick.

I respect your opinion, but could you tell me why you think he's a safe pick? I think he's one of the riskiest picks in the entire draft due to his consistency and lack of production with top line minutes. And it's not like he's playing a defensive role, either...

anyby know if Christer Rockstrom is high on Tukonen? Who are the Rangers' scouts? And who covers what league/region?

I couldn't say if Rockström likes Tukonen or not, but I'll say one thing, he doesn't seem to like Finnish players. If you look back on the teams he's been European scout for, the Rangers and the Red Wings, they never draft Finns... (just something i've noticed, i still think he's a decent scout).

I'd love for the Rangers to get Tukonen for sentimental reasons (he's from the same town as one of my best friends, stuff like that), and from all I've read, most people project him as a good, safe all-round pick, with size and skill. Thing is, it strikes me that there are enough players who each simply offer something more than he does in any one area that one of them would be available at number 6. If we were drafting a few picks further down, not even that many, I think most people would be excited to get him.

You are the one bashing me, and getting me riled up, not vice versa, now you are trying to come out like a Saint, and make me the Devil. :madfire:


is this guy insane? What the hell does he want from me?

I respect your opinion, but could you tell me why you think he's a safe pick? I think he's one of the riskiest picks in the entire draft due to his consistency and lack of production with top line minutes. And it's not like he's playing a defensive role, either...

Just curious, where have you seen Tukonen play?

I couldn't say if Rockström likes Tukonen or not, but I'll say one thing, he doesn't seem to like Finnish players. If you look back on the teams he's been European scout for, the Rangers and the Red Wings, they never draft Finns... (just something i've noticed, i still think he's a decent scout).

I'd love for the Rangers to get Tukonen for sentimental reasons (he's from the same town as one of my best friends, stuff like that), and from all I've read, most people project him as a good, safe all-round pick, with size and skill. Thing is, it strikes me that there are enough players who each simply offer something more than he does in any one area that one of them would be available at number 6. If we were drafting a few picks further down, not even that many, I think most people would be excited to get him.


Maybe you are right, but we did draft I think at least 3 players from Finnish leagues in the last 6 years, but I think only one of them was actually Finnish. And I am guessing Rockstrom also likes Immonen.

is this guy insane? What the hell does he want from me?
I want you to stop trashing my opinions like the bag your lunch came from. I respect that you like Tukonen, but I like Olesz a helluva lot better, nothing to go insane about.

we DONT want poti. give it up. if you arent the same guy, im sorry, but im sick of ranger fans thinking we want poti, especially the ones on our board. why would we trade for poti when we could draft barker. i dont mean to flame, but i just dont want poti

if chicago picks barker @ #3 then the BJs can't exactly draft him at #4 can they?? and that was the scenario used

At the risk of being obvious, I think that any deal that looks like

Rangers get: #2, #3, #4, or #5 pick + Third round pick
Other team gets: #26(25) pick, high 2nd round pick, plus 2 players

It comes downs to which pick it is we get and which two players we give up. I have a feeling that if we're looking at the #2 pick, the two players we're offering are probably Kondratiev and Garth Murray. The two players they want are probably Garth Murray and Fedor Tyutin. If we're looking at the #5 pick, then I'm not sure I'd offer up much of anything in addition to the #26(25) and a high second round pick. I certainly wouldn't offer Poti, who I think is worth more than that. If he isn't, we should keep him. Take the 2nd rounder off the table and I'd do the #26(25) plus Poti for the #5.

Just curious, where have you seen Tukonen play?

I go to Europe once a year, every year. Russia, Czech, and Finland. I wish I could get to Sweden once in a while. It's because my dad goes on an annual European business trip and we like to stop and watch a few games eqach time we go. I've seen Tukonen twice live.

now 2 scouting sites rank Tukonen ahead of Olesz and Ladd

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2004-05-21-woodlief_x.htm

You may or may not have noticed, but there are a few "insiders" who frequented this board. EDGE, PARK#2 and SOTI are posters who have given us some inside information from time to time. Obviously, they are limited in the scope of how much can be revealed. But, for we the Ranger brood salivating for any morsel of info we can get, they do provide for us. The trade deadline has been a very interesting day of reading over the years.

Yes..because most people with lots of inside info like to go to HFBOARDS and give that inside info to little kids on a chat room..
:shakehead

I have to agree with Pittengineer . . . the pick (#2) could be had in theory but there is a huge difference between that pick and numbers 3, 4, 5 (there is not even close to a consensus on number 3, with any of 4, 5 or 6 players capable of going there) . . . Think close to AO type trade as Malkin has been said to be closing that gap, coming on quite a bit this year, so especially with Pittsburgh having a glaring weakness of a lack of a play making center, they would have to be blown away with an offer. The offers that I have seen here do not blow me away personally, and I doubt that they would the Pens.

I have to agree with Pittengineer . . . the pick (#2) could be had in theory but there is a huge difference between that pick and numbers 3, 4, 5 (there is not even close to a consensus on number 3, with any of 4, 5 or 6 players capable of going there) . . . Think close to AO type trade as Malkin has been said to be closing that gap, coming on quite a bit this year, so especially with Pittsburgh having a glaring weakness of a lack of a play making center, they would have to be blown away with an offer. The offers that I have seen here do not blow me away personally, and I doubt that they would the Pens.

So you wouldn't take the # 6 & #7 for #2?

I doubt any trades happen either, but i can see some scenarios that could work for both teams. You just never know.

So you wouldn't take the # 6 & #7 for #2?

I doubt any trades happen either, but i can see some scenarios that could work for both teams. You just never know.


In this draft? . . . no, I personally would not . . . this is one of the weaker drafts in quite a few years (especially after about pick 15, from what I read the picks are the equivilent of mid seconds last year). there is some quality from #3 - 5, then a bit less from 6 - 15, but the consenus drop off is after 5, so 6 & 7 may as well be 14 & 15 to me, and in this year it is not enough to trade a player that has been projected as high as Malkin has of late.

So you wouldn't take the # 6 & #7 for #2?

I doubt any trades happen either, but i can see some scenarios that could work for both teams. You just never know.

If this was last year, I def. would have considered it(even though im glad they traded up for our franchise goalie). This draft is relatively weak(compared to other drafts) after the top 5, some would argue top 2. The thing working against a trade for #2 is that Malkin(considered the def #2 in the draft) is the bluechip center that lacks in the pens system. I think if the situation was a little bit different, the pens would consider to trade down. But I think with Malkin being the BPA, the def #2, and the position the pens system lacks, the pens will stay at #2 unless a stellar deal comes through that includes a bluechip young player coming back.

In this draft? . . . no, I personally would not . . . this is one of the weaker drafts in quite a few years (especially after about pick 15, from what I read the picks are the equivilent of mid seconds last year).

If this was last year, I def. would have considered it(even though im glad they traded up for our franchise goalie). This draft is relatively weak(compared to other drafts) after the top 5, some would argue top 2.

MYTH !

Yeah, it is apparent to alot of people that this draft has only 2 bluechip prospects. Thats it. No more, after that they're all mid seconds like Jaded has pointed us to. You mean like Patrice Bergeron was last year right? Or in 1996 when they said it could be one of the worst drafts ever - well they were right about the first round, but take a look at the 2-9th rounds in that draft.

To people who know the draft it's all about Edge's favorite line - do your homework.
There are some very good players in this draft, some are still boys, not men. The opposite is usually true in drafts considered to have quality depth, like in 1999. Look where alot of those guys are now.

Ok, Pitt won't deal their pick, thats fine with me, just don't believe the hype when it comes to value in this draft. It's ignorant to summize a draft before it even takes place.

MYTH !

Yeah, it is apparent to alot of people that this draft has only 2 bluechip prospects. Thats it. No more, after that they're all mid seconds like Jaded has pointed us to. You mean like Patrice Bergeron was last year right? Or in 1996 when they said it could be one of the worst drafts ever - well they were right about the first round, but take a look at the 2-9th rounds in that draft.

To people who know the draft it's all about Edge's favorite line - do your homework.
There are some very good players in this draft, some are still boys, not men. The opposite is usually true in drafts considered to have quality depth, like in 1999. Look where alot of those guys are now.

Ok, Pitt won't deal their pick, thats fine with me, just don't believe the hype when it comes to value in this draft. It's ignorant to summize a draft before it even takes place.

I dont think we are saying there is not good players still available, just that #1 and #2 are slam dunks. They are gimme picks.

Yes..because most people with lots of inside info like to go to HFBOARDS and give that inside info to little kids on a chat room..
:shakehead

You are doing all three posters - EDGE, PARK#2 and SOTI - a disservice by showing such disrespect. All three people have provided us with information that we would not have gotten anywhere else. Do I have any proof? No, but all three posters have earned the respect of posters here. I never once stated they were people connected to anyone, only that they have access to information most of us are not privy to. As for the "little kids" comment, speak for yourself.

You are doing all three posters - EDGE, PARK#2 and SOTI - a disservice by showing such disrespect. All three people have provided us with information that we would not have gotten anywhere else. Do I have any proof? No, but all three posters have earned the respect of posters here. I never once stated they were people connected to anyone, only that they have access to information most of us are not privy to. As for the "little kids" comment, speak for yourself.
:bow: :bow: :bow: Right on! :bow:

MYTH !

Agreed. What are those people trying to tell us, that there are only 2 or 3 players who are going to play on the top 2 lines in the NHL? That there are only 2 defensemen that will make it? The '03 draft was an exceptionally deep draft, where 1st round talent was still found in the 2nd round. Therefore saying that most of the mid first-rounders from this year would be 2nd rounders from last year, is not saying much at all. For all of the "weak" drafts that have occured, somehow players from those drafts still become top 2 line players and top pairing defensemen.
As our battle cry seems to be, "Just do your homework".

Agreed. What are those people trying to tell us, that there are only 2 or 3 players who are going to play on the top 2 lines in the NHL? That there are only 2 defensemen that will make it? The '03 draft was an exceptionally deep draft, where 1st round talent was still found in the 2nd round. Therefore saying that most of the mid first-rounders from this year would be 2nd rounders from last year, is not saying much at all. For all of the "weak" drafts that have occured, somehow players from those drafts still become top 2 line players and top pairing defensemen.
As our battle cry seems to be, "Just do your homework".
I think that this year's top 30 talents, is just a notch below last years. This year, the draft isn't as deep, but in the top 30, their is so much talent, but the talent hasn't proven itself yet (I.E. Wes O'Neil, Radislav Olesz :dunno: , Lauri Tukonen, ETC.).

I think that this year's top 30 talents, is just a notch below last years. This year, the draft isn't as deep, but in the top 30, their is so much talent, but the talent hasn't proven itself yet (I.E. Wes O'Neil, Radislav Olesz :dunno: , Lauri Tukonen, ETC.).


Plus alot of good talent in Europe is being overlooked as just 2nd rate - Kaspar, Alexandrov, Voloshenko, Fransson, Hedman, Soderberg, Valant, Korpikoski, Nokelainen, Tuomainen, Vomela, Plyuschev, Gracik, ****ikov - all very skilled players.

And North America - Zajac, Wheeler, Chucko, Weller, Sawada, Yandle, RJ Anderson, Klubertanz, Oreskovich....players who have only played against average competition, so they get rated low. But these guys will be attending schools like Minnesota, North Dakota, Clarkson, Cornell, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Notre Dame - major college programs. These are the kind of players Slats and co have picked nicely in the later rounds the last few years.

Plus alot of good talent in Europe is being overlooked as just 2nd rate - Kaspar, Alexandrov, Voloshenko, Fransson, Hedman, Soderberg, Valant, Korpikoski, Nokelainen, Tuomainen, Vomela, Plyuschev, Gracik, ****ikov - all very skilled players.

And North America - Zajac, Wheeler, Chucko, Weller, Sawada, Yandle, RJ Anderson, Klubertanz, Oreskovich....players who have only played against average competition, so they get rated low. But these guys will be attending schools like Minnesota, North Dakota, Clarkson, Cornell, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Notre Dame - major college programs. These are the kind of players Slats and co have picked nicely in the later rounds the last few years.
I couldn't have gone on forever, could I? ;) But you just prove my point more. :bow:

But if that's your argument, that there are somany good players in this draft, would you be willing to have the Rangers trade down out of the top 10 or even the top 20 if another team comes a-knockin' for the #6?

But if that's your argument, that there are somany good players in this draft, would you be willing to have the Rangers trade down out of the top 10 or even the top 20 if another team comes a-knockin' for the #6?
No, because the talent at #6 is higher than at #20. And, we already have more than enough picks for one draft, we don't need a mid-level prospect, or another pick. At #6 we could still get a definite Grade A talent, where a little lower, you may not be ablt to get that. Also, the talent higher up in this draft is more polished, which in turn means they are more of a sure-fire prospect, which we need. We would not be able to get an Olesz, Radulov, Thelen, or any player at that type of level. Point is, we get an even better talent at #6, and we get a more sure-fire prospect their, as well.

But if that's your argument, that there are somany good players in this draft, would you be willing to have the Rangers trade down out of the top 10 or even the top 20 if another team comes a-knockin' for the #6?

I would, if the right deal came along. Let's say that Edmonton offered us their two first rounders, a 3rd rounder, and a 5th rounder for the #6, and Olesz was not available, I would take it. If Olesz is not available, I'd probably still take it.

I know I'm not one of the most frequent posters on here, but just about every post I make contains some variation on the theme of "the purpose of the draft is to maximize your assets. You can do this by either staying where you are, moving up, or moving down. We should be open to doing all three." We should do whatever maximizes the assets. That could, in a draft (mis)perceived as being top-heavy, mean that we should move down and pick up more undervalued picks.

if the rangers could some how walk away from the draft with two top eight picks i don't really care if they give up every second round pick. the top ten of the draft is that good and the drop off is that bad.

I agree.
I think the Rangers will stay at #6 and move up into the teens.

This year's draft is extremely important for Rangers' future, we must pick the right prospects and at the same time stay away from picks that are too risky and picks that are too safe..

I would trade Lundmark for Rita and a 4th round pick

Trade Poti to Carolina for #38 pick

Maybe even trade Rachunek, Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera, or Dunham if anybody is interested and would give fair value in return.

Then use the 2 late 2nd rounders to get another late 1st rounder; and use Toronto's pick and another late 2nd rounder to move up into mid teens.

that would give us 3 1st rounders and 3 early consecutive 2nd rounders.

This year's draft is extremely important for Rangers' future, we must pick the right prospects and at the same time stay away from picks that are too risky and picks that are too safe..

I would trade Lundmark for Rita and a 4th round pick

Trade Poti to Carolina for #38 pick

Maybe even trade Rachunek, Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera, or Dunham if anybody is interested and would give fair value in return.

Then use the 2 late 2nd rounders to get another late 1st rounder; and use Toronto's pick and another late 2nd rounder to move up into mid teens.

that would give us 3 1st rounders and 3 early consecutive 2nd rounders.
I feel like I just did this: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

But, I would like to do that, but Sather is to stupid for logic, everyone knows that.

if the rangers could some how walk away from the draft with two top eight picks i don't really care if they give up every second round pick. the top ten of the draft is that good and the drop off is that bad.

I just don't believe that's true. We've seen other "thin" drafts that turned out to be just as deep as supposedly stronger drafts. I'm convinced that most drafts are pretty much equivalant overall. Maybe there's a few more or a fewer prospects at the very top of the talent curve, but overall it's mostly about the same. There will be NHL players available in the 2nd round. We just have to find them. To sell out everything we have for another shot in the top 10 is, IMO, foolishness. We have a realistic chance at getting 4 or 5 NHL players in this draft. We shouldn't blow it.

I just don't believe that's true. We've seen other "thin" drafts that turned out to be just as deep as supposedly stronger drafts. I'm convinced that most drafts are pretty much equivalant overall. Maybe there's a few more or a fewer prospects at the very top of the talent curve, but overall it's mostly about the same. There will be NHL players available in the 2nd round. We just have to find them. To sell out everything we have for another shot in the top 10 is, IMO, foolishness. We have a realistic chance at getting 4 or 5 NHL players in this draft. We shouldn't blow it.

Most drafts produce the same, some just seem to be shinier at first than others. Having said that, if getting the players you want means trading to move up, than you do it. If you can get him by trading down and getting an extra pick, you do that then. There's no right or wrong answer.

As for a dropoff, the big dropoff is in the polish some of these kids. They are a little harder to judge but I would venture to say that when all is said and done this draft will likely product as much as last years.

7 years ago EVERYONE swore the 97 draft was gonna be huge, many people felt 99 was going to be huge. Everyone swore 2000 was a let down year but look at some kids it produced.

I dont think this is a weak year, just one that requires looking beyond stats, sometimes beyond skills and often between the lines.

Most drafts produce the same, some just seem to be shinier at first than others. Having said that, if getting the players you want means trading to move up, than you do it. If you can get him by trading down and getting an extra pick, you do that then. There's no right or wrong answer.


Oh, I don't deny that you have to find the people you want and target them. But if we go into the draft thinking that Radislav Smid, for example, is the fifth best player in the draft, we would be foolish not to move down, as he will certainly be available in the early teens. It just irks me to see all these people thinking "Top Ten or Bust" and completely disregarding the value of 2nd round picks and the #25 pick except as trade-bait. I think it's the same sort of thinking that got us into signing all those high-priced free agents, just transfered to the draft now. People are getting suckered into the glitz and glamour of higher picks and ignoring the nuts and bolts of a draft.

I feel like I just did this: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

But, I would like to do that, but Sather is to stupid for logic, everyone knows that.
There's a little more to it than just logic and what Sather would or would not do.

"Trade Poti to Carolina for #38 pick"

Where is the logic here? Why on Earth would Carolina make this trade? People have got to stop including Poti in every possible trade. I understand that people want him gone, but wanting and reality are 2 different things. NO team is going to surrender a 1st or 2nd round pick for him. Given his atrocious play and salary, Poti is close to untradeable.

"Maybe even trade Rachunek, Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera, or Dunham if anybody is interested and would give fair value in return."

Sather just traded for Rachunek. Does anyone out there really think that he is going to turn around and ship him right out? Dunham is pretty much untradeable right now. And players like Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera have as much trade value as a waiver pick. What is a fair return for any one of them? A new hockey stick? A puck?

"Then use the 2 late 2nd rounders to get another late 1st rounder;"

With the well-documented drop-off in talent (or polish or whatever you want to call it), why would a team trade away it's first rounder in return for 2 LATE 2nd rounders? Just does not make sense.

"and use Toronto's pick and another late 2nd rounder to move up into mid teens."

Again, the 25th pick and another late 2nd rounder is not going to get you to move up 10 spots (15th is mid-teens).

Not only do these trades have to make sense for the Rangers, they have to make sense for other teams as well.

If Olesz is there at #6, I think the rangers would def take him over any other prospect still available. I think they will also heavily look at Tukonen and Radulov, as I think those two will be the more realistic BPA at #6. Olesz most likely goes #3, but i believe the furthest he falls is #4.

I can almost guarantee that Columbus will not take Olesz. If Chicago passes on him, CBJ will either trade out or pass on Olesz and pick Ladd or Tukonen.
With Malhotra and Svitov in the system, they aren't looking for a 2nd/3rd line two-way guy.

I think the Rangers and CBJ match up extremely well for a potential swap of picks.

But, any trade that involves Columbus flat out giving up the 4th would be a tough one to swallow for me. IF you take the the presumption of the Toronto pick, a second rounder and two players -- one of those two players would have to be Tjutin, in my opinion.

Doug MacLean has repeatedly said that he wants "young, NHL-ready players." Columbus needs young d-men. If CBJ can't address it with Barker, I can only assume they'd want to address it through trade. Tjutin, to me, is the only player that makes sense. Poti doesn't -- too much money and CBJ have almost all puck-moving, offensive types already.
But, I will say that MacLean has talked up the Leetch trade and the two prospects NYR got in that deal before -- maybe it could be one of those guys?

As to Lundmark, MacLean recently said he was looking for a Svitov-like deal. Does this mean he might acquire a recent high pick who hasn't quite lived up to his billing?

Another note: MacLean allegedly was interested in Rachunek at the deadline. There is another name for the rumor mill.

I think the Rangers and CBJ match up extremely well for a potential swap of picks.

But, any trade that involves Columbus flat out giving up the 4th would be a tough one to swallow for me. IF you take the the presumption of the Toronto pick, a second rounder and two players -- one of those two players would have to be Tjutin, in my opinion.

Doug MacLean has repeatedly said that he wants "young, NHL-ready players." Columbus needs young d-men. If CBJ can't address it with Barker, I can only assume they'd want to address it through trade. Tjutin, to me, is the only player that makes sense. Poti doesn't -- too much money and CBJ have almost all puck-moving, offensive types already.
But, I will say that MacLean has talked up the Leetch trade and the two prospects NYR got in that deal before -- maybe it could be one of those guys?

As to Lundmark, MacLean recently said he was looking for a Svitov-like deal. Does this mean he might acquire a recent high pick who hasn't quite lived up to his billing?

Another note: MacLean allegedly was interested in Rachunek at the deadline. There is another name for the rumor mill.

Umberger. If the Rangers sign RJ, they could then package him to Columbus, who are not all too unfamiliar to RJ, he did play for Ohio State.

Umberger. If the Rangers sign RJ, they could then package him to Columbus, who are not all too unfamiliar to RJ, he did play for Ohio State.

I wouldn't rule out CBJ's interest in Umberger. But, I can't see him being signed just to be traded. If CBJ want him, I'd think they'd just roll the dice that the Rangers don't sign him.

I wouldn't rule out CBJ's interest in Umberger. But, I can't see him being signed just to be traded. If CBJ want him, I'd think they'd just roll the dice that the Rangers don't sign him.


Yes and no. If they want him, trade for him and avoid a bidding war.

Yes and no. If they want him, trade for him and avoid a bidding war.

I'd rather risk a biding war than give up an asset to get Umberger, who, at this point I would imagine would want to be in the middle of a bidding war.

Do you really think another team is going to jump in and trade us more then a 2nd for Umberger? The guy didn't impress here, and is starting to really be looked at like a head case. I'm sure he'll be signed by someone (possibly us), but don't expect him to be flipped for something great otherwise Burke would have moved him a lot earlier.

There's a little more to it than just logic and what Sather would or would not do.

"Trade Poti to Carolina for #38 pick"

Where is the logic here? Why on Earth would Carolina make this trade? People have got to stop including Poti in every possible trade. I understand that people want him gone, but wanting and reality are 2 different things. NO team is going to surrender a 1st or 2nd round pick for him. Given his atrocious play and salary, Poti is close to untradeable.

"Maybe even trade Rachunek, Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera, or Dunham if anybody is interested and would give fair value in return."

Sather just traded for Rachunek. Does anyone out there really think that he is going to turn around and ship him right out? Dunham is pretty much untradeable right now. And players like Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera have as much trade value as a waiver pick. What is a fair return for any one of them? A new hockey stick? A puck?

"Then use the 2 late 2nd rounders to get another late 1st rounder;"

With the well-documented drop-off in talent (or polish or whatever you want to call it), why would a team trade away it's first rounder in return for 2 LATE 2nd rounders? Just does not make sense.

"and use Toronto's pick and another late 2nd rounder to move up into mid teens."

Again, the 25th pick and another late 2nd rounder is not going to get you to move up 10 spots (15th is mid-teens).

Not only do these trades have to make sense for the Rangers, they have to make sense for other teams as well.

I will not go into specifics of every trade, but obviously we would have to include some decent players like Josh Green or Lacouture to move up.

As for Rachunek--maybe Sather like most of us wasn't thrilled with his play in the end of the season.

And as for Poti, 2 teams that badly need a guy like poti are Carolina and Atlanta. They need him for PP, as well as for offense. Carolina is really thin on defense and besides Hill, almost nobody can score. Besides their coaches could even make Poti play physical.

I wouldn't rule out CBJ's interest in Umberger. But, I can't see him being signed just to be traded. If CBJ want him, I'd think they'd just roll the dice that the Rangers don't sign him.


Why would Columbus want Umberger? But if they really do I would trade his rights for their 2nd round pick.

Also I think teams like Columbus, Chicago, Carolina and Buffalo are all going for defensemen.

Why would Columbus want Umberger? But if they really do I would trade his rights for their 2nd round pick.

Also I think teams like Columbus, Chicago, Carolina and Buffalo are all going for defensemen.

Maybe but I don't think Barker and Thelen will go in the top 5... I think Chi could take Barker.. which would probably mean Columbus takes Ladd... we get Olesz or Thelen

Maybe but I don't think Barker and Thelen will go in the top 5... I think Chi could take Barker.. which would probably mean Columbus takes Ladd... we get Olesz or Thelen

I think Ducks might trade up to pick Ladd to reunite him with Getzlaf.

I will not go into specifics of every trade, but obviously we would have to include some decent players like Josh Green or Lacouture to move up.

That's rather the point. If you want to move up, you would have to include someone who is significantly better than Green or Lacouture. No team is trading for players like that, as there are always similar players available on the waiver wire. There is just not much of a market for waiver-wire players.

"As for Rachunek--maybe Sather like most of us wasn't thrilled with his play in the end of the season."

There were quite a few that were perfectly content with him. Sather did not trade for him, just to move him on draft day.

"And as for Poti, 2 teams that badly need a guy like poti are Carolina and Atlanta. They need him for PP, as well as for offense. Carolina is really thin on defense and besides Hill, almost nobody can score. Besides their coaches could even make Poti play physical."

I have no idea where the idea that Atlanta is dying for a Poti. They are not. He is not a Hartley-type player. Kevin Lowe could not get him to play defense. Neither could MacT. Neither could Ron Low. Neither could Trottier. Neither could Sather nor Renney. I doubt that the 'Canes coach could and Hartley would not even give him the time of day. People have to give up the fantasy that Poti is somehow going to be moved for a) a first-rounder or b) a second rounder and subsequently this 2nd rounder would be packaged with either another 2nd rounder or the Toronto pick to move up. Not happening. Poti is not getting moved for a pick. Not given his level of play, not given his salary, and not given the upcoming CBA armageddon.
If Carolina is as thin on defense as you claim they are, why would they even consider Poti?
People have to stop having the fantasy that somehow Poti is going to get moved for a pick. This is reality and not EA sports.

I think Ducks might trade up to pick Ladd to reunite him with Getzlaf.

Possibly... If Chi takes Barker then Columbus takes Ladd, and I doubt the Ducks trade into the top 3 to get ahead of the Jackets. If Ladd drops to 5 then the Ducks could trade up to the Phoenix pick.. that could be an interesting scenario. Purely hypothetical, but interesting.

There's a little more to it than just logic and what Sather would or would not do.

"Trade Poti to Carolina for #38 pick"

Where is the logic here? Why on Earth would Carolina make this trade? People have got to stop including Poti in every possible trade. I understand that people want him gone, but wanting and reality are 2 different things. NO team is going to surrender a 1st or 2nd round pick for him. Given his atrocious play and salary, Poti is close to untradeable.

"Maybe even trade Rachunek, Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera, or Dunham if anybody is interested and would give fair value in return."

Sather just traded for Rachunek. Does anyone out there really think that he is going to turn around and ship him right out? Dunham is pretty much untradeable right now. And players like Josh Green, Lacouture, Purinton, Labarbera have as much trade value as a waiver pick. What is a fair return for any one of them? A new hockey stick? A puck?

"Then use the 2 late 2nd rounders to get another late 1st rounder;"

With the well-documented drop-off in talent (or polish or whatever you want to call it), why would a team trade away it's first rounder in return for 2 LATE 2nd rounders? Just does not make sense.

"and use Toronto's pick and another late 2nd rounder to move up into mid teens."

Again, the 25th pick and another late 2nd rounder is not going to get you to move up 10 spots (15th is mid-teens).

Not only do these trades have to make sense for the Rangers, they have to make sense for other teams as well.
IF a team came up to him and asked if they would make these trades, then it would be logic for someone to say yes, but Sather doesn't use logic when making decisions.

Why would Columbus want Umberger? But if they really do I would trade his rights for their 2nd round pick.

Also I think teams like Columbus, Chicago, Carolina and Buffalo are all going for defensemen.
:banghead: They don't have a second round pick! :banghead:

IF a team came up to him and asked if they would make these trades, then it would be logic for someone to say yes, but Sather doesn't use logic when making decisions.
sather doesn't really get ripped off in trades. sather has drafted very well since he became gm. sather at the deadline got some really good young players. his logic in hiring coaches is pretty bad but..................... the talent that is coming in this year and in the future is pretty exciting.

sather doesn't really get ripped off in trades. sather has drafted very well since he became gm. sather at the deadline got some really good young players. his logic in hiring coaches is pretty bad but..................... the talent that is coming in this year and in the future is pretty exciting.
Not LATELY, but he has got ripped off in trades. You also can't judge his drafting as of late, because none have played in the NHL, or had an impact.

Not LATELY, but he has got ripped off in trades. You also can't judge his drafting as of late, because none have played in the NHL, or had an impact.
I can judge his draft record. So can everyone else. that is why we had that poll of top 20 prospects to judge players. Do u think prospects fall from the sky?

every GM has made bad choices but sather has not been ripped off in a deal yet. his masterful trades at the deadline have accelerated the rebuilding process

Possibly... If Chi takes Barker then Columbus takes Ladd, and I doubt the Ducks trade into the top 3 to get ahead of the Jackets. If Ladd drops to 5 then the Ducks could trade up to the Phoenix pick.. that could be an interesting scenario. Purely hypothetical, but interesting.

I doubt Columbus takes Ladd at #4, they might take Thelen

I doubt Columbus takes Ladd at #4, they might take Thelen

There is a heck of a lot better chance they take Ladd at 4 then Thelan. If they wanted Thelan they could possibly trade down a slot or two. Ladd won't last past 6 if everything went right he could last until 7, but I doubt it.

There is a heck of a lot better chance they take Ladd at 4 then Thelan. If they wanted Thelan they could possibly trade down a slot or two. Ladd won't last past 6 if everything went right he could last until 7, but I doubt it.

I doubt they would take Ladd over Olesz

I doubt they would take Ladd over Olesz
I don't, they are higher on Ladd.

I don't, they are higher on Ladd.
how do you know this?

I doubt they would take Ladd over Olesz

I'm not saying they will, but it definately wouldn't surprise me. Word is Columbus loves Barker and Ladd. If one isn't there, then they'll probably take the other. Thats what I've been hearing the last few weeks anyway. I would be fine with Ladd at 6. Pho apparently really likes Tukonen. I'm not sure if they'd take him over Ladd or Olesz, but that makes draft day fun :D

In a perfect world.. (and assuming no trades)

1. WSH - Ovechkin
2. Pitt - Malkin
3. Chi - Barker
4. CBS - Ladd
5. PHO - Tukonen
6 NYR - OLESZ - YIPPE

Of course Radulov could jump in, a trade could be made - anything could happen. Something like that could happen altho I doubt Olesz lasts even if his stock has dropped a bit.

I don't, they are higher on Ladd.

They are supposedly high on Ladd, but that doesn't necessarily mean they like him more then Olesz.

Maybe they trade down to six with us. We grab Olesz - they grab Ladd at 6. Of course they'd have to be darn sure Pho doesn't want him.

how do you know this?
It's been known for a while, their have been newspaper articles on CBJ draft board, and it's consensus that they are higher on Ladd than Olesz.

I'm not saying they will, but it definately wouldn't surprise me. Word is Columbus loves Barker and Ladd. If one isn't there, then they'll probably take the other. Thats what I've been hearing the last few weeks anyway. I would be fine with Ladd at 6. Pho apparently really likes Tukonen. I'm not sure if they'd take him over Ladd or Olesz, but that makes draft day fun :D

In a perfect world.. (and assuming no trades)

1. WSH - Ovechkin
2. Pitt - Malkin
3. Chi - Barker
4. CBS - Ladd
5. PHO - Tuko