Rags need Allison

Allison has admitted to feeling better the last month. He has an injury that is discribed as whip lash and not a concusion and is expected to make a full recovery with no after effects. The rumors are he is ready to come back he just refuses to play in L.A because of a rift with management especially coach Andy Murray.

Allison is a rare power center with skill. He stands 6'3 225, and can easily avg a point a game. he is an awesome set up man and can still pot 25 goals a year. I believe he would be the perfect center for Jagr who is an awesome sniper. The two would take up a lot of space and if the Rags reaquire Rucinsky for the defensive element to the line it would be one hell of a line.

There are two negatives to this, one being New York's supposed rebuilding process. Do we actually believe this, I don't, not with Sather at the helm. Although he did a nice job late last year getting picks and prospects.

The second is no one seems to know if the Kings will re qualify Allison a Group 2 free agent or not.

My Thoughts is trade for him right now because:

We can re qualify him at a little over 8 mil. or we can re work the contract which he would probably do as he is out of L.A and rid of Murray and he had to prove he is still worth the money.

What to trade though. I think we would have to give up Toronto's first, a quallity prospect and Umberger? if not more. We should also ask for Belanger a great 3rd line center and face off winner with some skill.

What we get is a great offensive leader and powerhouse that would work well with Jagr.


Allison- Jagr- Rucinsky line = 12-14 million
Holik - Balej- Lundmark line= 10 million
Belanger- Murray-Ortmeyer line = 2.5 million
Betts- rookie- Lacouture line = 2 million

forward contract total = 26 to 29 million

Pock Poti = 4 mil
Ruchunek Kasperitius = 5.5 mil
Tyutin Mironov = 3 mil

defence - 12.5 mil

Goalies

Dunham 3.5 mil
rookie 1. mil

goalies = 4 mil


forward = 26- 29 mil
defence = 12.5 mil
goalies = 4 mil

total 42.5 - 45.5 mil

now get rid of Poti and Dunham, sign a goalie and a defenceman adding 5 mil to each and we are still only sitting at 55 mil. If the Rags sit around there who's gonna complain?

Just my thoughts

I'd rather just not qualify Lindros, offer him a lower contract with incentives and not give up any assets. Both Lindros and Allison are physical risks. But, Lindros, at least, has expressed interest in staying in NY.

Why do we need Rucinsky he couldn't even score with linemates like Naslund and Morrison. It seems like a lot of people are having difficulty comprehending rebuilding with youth.

If Allison hadn't missed a whole season, I would love to get him, but now I am not so sure about his game shape and health.

I'm not too crazy about Allison... just me, maybe, but he seems to have lost it, you know?

I kinda think we should also have more younger guys... minus Lundmark. And maybe it's time for Poti to go... Belanger might be a good idea.

I still think Hlavac should stay. He needs to be put with the right guys in the right situations... giving him 10min a game will stifle his confidence.

Why do we need Rucinsky he couldn't even score with linemates like Naslund and Morrison. It seems like a lot of people are having difficulty comprehending rebuilding with youth.

If Allison hadn't missed a whole season, I would love to get him, but now I am not so sure about his game shape and health.
Rucinsky didn't score much with us but he was one of our better players, his game is not about scoring

but did fine in New York with Kovalev and Holik. The guy is effective on three lines. He's responsible enough defensively to be on a checking line. He can keep up with the big boys on top lines, going into corners and coming out with the puck. Leading the rush up ice, etc. He's quick and an intelligent penalty killer. He was refreshing this year, to me.

Hlavac, I think, is done. He got the minutes with Jagr and still couldn't put it together, except in glimpses. He scored less goals than Toms did and Toms played in less than 40 games and was, except for a handful of games, playing on a fourth line. Hlavac's confidence is lost. Might as well get the same production from another guy; one with size, or some other intangible quality.

Rucinsky didn't score much with us but he was one of our better players, his game is not about scoring

Ok, but what is the point of 33 year old Rucinsky being here and taking away valuable icetime from a promising young player like Immonen or Prucha for example?

but did fine in New York with Kovalev and Holik. The guy is effective on three lines. He's responsible enough defensively to be on a checking line. He can keep up with the big boys on top lines, going into corners and coming out with the puck. Leading the rush up ice, etc. He's quick and an intelligent penalty killer. He was refreshing this year, to me.

Hlavac, I think, is done. He got the minutes with Jagr and still couldn't put it together, except in glimpses. He scored less goals than Toms did and Toms played in less than 40 games and was, except for a handful of games, playing on a fourth line. Hlavac's confidence is lost. Might as well get the same production from another guy; one with size, or some other intangible quality.

Most of his scoring came in a span of 30-40 days, the rest of the season he could barely score, I just don't understand what is the point, why not give a spot to Dominic Moore instead?

Ok, but what is the point of 33 year old Rucinsky being here and taking away valuable icetime from a promising young player like Immonen or Prucha for example?

Because, as it's been said MANY times, you can't rebuild a team with JUST kids.

I have no real desire to see Rucinsky come back. Same goes for Simon and/or Barnaby, who if you believe some reports, was a part of the chasm in the locker room last year. Time to move on. While I don't expect to go strictly with youth next season, I'm hoping as many young players get the opportunity to shine as possible.

I have no real desire to see Rucinsky come back. Same goes for Simon and/or Barnaby, who if you believe some reports, was a part of the chasm in the locker room last year. Time to move on. While I don't expect to go strictly with youth next season, I'm hoping as many young players get the opportunity to shine as possible.

But you can't do that. You just can't. You need a FEW vets on the team (half the team, at least IMHO) in order to ease the kids in.

But you can't do that. You just can't. You need a FEW vets on the team (half the team, at least IMHO) in order to ease the kids in.

Yeah, okay, we've got Jagr, Holik and Kasparitis. I'd bring back Lindros at a reduced price. And, I'd add a d-man, AFTER trading the purse-boy. You wanna keep Josh Green? Okay. I think players like Balej, Tyutin and Pock, perhaps even a Murray or Ortmeyer are primed for growth spurts. A player like Betts already has made the NHL. Rachunek is already an NHL player.

Yeah, okay, we've got Jagr, Holik and Kasparitis. I'd bring back Lindros at a reduced price. And, I'd add a d-man, AFTER trading the purse-boy. You wanna keep Josh Green? Okay. I think players like Balej, Tyutin and Pock, perhaps even a Murray or Ortmeyer are primed for growth spurts. A player like Betts already has made the NHL. Rachunek is already an NHL player.

i hope to god josh green stays and continues to develop. i loved watching him towards the very end of the season.

Rucinsky I can understand ignoring, though might be the best guy at that cost-level. Barnaby though, I will not compromise. HE MUST RETURN.

Why do people continue to insist on taking the WRONG road and signing free agents. This has not and will not work. Become a Detroit/Dallas fan if you want those big name players. These Rangers had better give these young guys a shot. Forget Allison, I'd rather give Lundmark a shot.

Yeah, okay, we've got Jagr, Holik and Kasparitis. I'd bring back Lindros at a reduced price. And, I'd add a d-man, AFTER trading the purse-boy. You wanna keep Josh Green? Okay. I think players like Balej, Tyutin and Pock, perhaps even a Murray or Ortmeyer are primed for growth spurts. A player like Betts already has made the NHL. Rachunek is already an NHL player.


Yeah, plus many of our other prospects are mature 21-25 year olds, not 18-20 kids.

Prucha-Holik-Jagr
Rucinsky-Lundmark*-Balej
Murray-Lindros-Barnaby
Betts-Moore-Ortmeyer

Kasparaitis-Poti*
Kondratiev-Tyutin
Pock-Rachunek

Dunham*/Valiquette/Labarbera*
*-If not traded

Lundmark's going to develop into nothing centering Ortmeyer and, let's call him, Moore. Balej's not going to do much without a center, unless he's with Holik and then, most likely, this team is flawed again. You don't rebuild by just putting out a bunch of kids. They don't always grow by just playing. It helps to play with vets. It would be great to build like the Isles did, trading for guys in their prime like Peca, Yashin, Scatchard, Hammer and others, but the Rangers aren't at that point. Further, many of its better younger players are either to be drafted, or early in the development stage. The youth needs to be complemented. The youth, too, needs to play an important role, which is where this organization went wrong in the past. a guy like Balej needs to be on the top two lines, getting meaningful minutes, not on a fourth line watching. Getting a left winger like Rucinsky should not impede that, but should complement and enhance that.

And jas...not sure I'd want Murray or Ortmeyer anywhere near the top two lines on the Rangers. They're just not productive enough (not on an NHL level; not on an AHL level). Just because this team is undergoing a youth movement, hopefully, doesn't mean that undue expectations should be placed on these guys. Maybe Ortmeyer lands on Holik's right as a checker, although even in that role, you'd expect a guy to score.

Prucha-Holik-Jagr
Rucinsky-Lundmark*-Balej
Murray-Lindros-Barnaby
Betts-Moore-Ortmeyer

Kasparaitis-Poti*
Kondratiev-Tyutin
Pock-Rachunek

Dunham*/Valiquette/Labarbera*
*-If not traded

Wonderful optomism, but you do realize that roster would be lucky to win 15 games next year, right?

1) Rookies don't play on first lines. Unless they're named Gretzky. Mario was a minus 30 in his rookie year. Rick Nash was a minus 30 in his sophmore year. Ilya Kovalachuk is (3rd year? I don't even remember) but has never been a plus player. Petr Prucha will not be on the first line next year, unless the Rangers are aiming for Sidney Crosby.

2) Lindros, if he resigns, would win the first line center gig standing on one leg wearing a blindfold. Holik would center the second line, and Lundmark would be lucky to retain third line minutes.

3) Dunham would have to be put on anti-depressants to play behind that defense. Three rookies and three sincerely-less-than-stable veterans? Yikes. The Rangers would be lucky not to set a modern record for goals allowed.

My counter-offer:

Rucinsky-Holik-Jagr
J.Green-Rolston(signed as a UFA)-Balej
Barnaby-Lundmark-Ortmeyer
Murray-D.Moore/Betts/M.Green-Rookie

Poti-Kaspar
Tjutin-Mironov
Pock-Rachunek
*Purinton, Nycholat, Kondraitev as reserves

Dunham
McLennan (Labarberra if he can beat the vet, if not, trade Jason)

This roster would suck. But at least it would be vaguely competitive, and not a nightly embarrassment.

***************************************

As for the topic of this thread, I would just ask that people stop living in the past. Three years ago I was interested in Allison. Nowadays his future is just as murky as Lindros, and his upside isn't nearly as high. Trade away valuable young assets to LA for the rights to him? No way. We did that with Lindros, and we can retain him for mere cash if anyone wants to. (or pursue a variety of more reliable and healthy UFA's).

I'd rather just not qualify Lindros, offer him a lower contract with incentives and not give up any assets. Both Lindros and Allison are physical risks. But, Lindros, at least, has expressed interest in staying in NY.

Me too.

I definitely wanted Barnaby back, I was all for Rucinsky coming back, and I'm hoping Lindros signs for less, but then it's going right back to where we were. I think I'd have to go with Lindros out of those three.

One question I have is, why do some people think guys who played on a playoff team in 03/04 would want to sign in NY? Not quite getting that one.

Wonderful optomism, but you do realize that roster would be lucky to win 15 games next year, right?


So whats wrong with Crosby? ;)

a comment: Holik and Jagr need to play on separate lines, for a couple reasons. For players (young players) to grow, they need to play with vets (a vet can be 25 years old, too). The Rangers are somewhat lucky to have a guy like Jagr, who a rookie/yoot can play with and get confidence. On another line, you have Holik. A banger and a skilled guy can play with Holik (checking top lines). Gotta get away from the one-line stuff that does in this team year-after-yera. Gotta spread things out better, and have players in roles that make sense (i.e., Jagr, top line winger; Holik, checking center).

Lundmark's going to develop into nothing centering Ortmeyer and, let's call him, Moore. Balej's not going to do much without a center, unless he's with Holik and then, most likely, this team is flawed again. You don't rebuild by just putting out a bunch of kids. They don't always grow by just playing. It helps to play with vets. It would be great to build like the Isles did, trading for guys in their prime like Peca, Yashin, Scatchard, Hammer and others, but the Rangers aren't at that point. Further, many of its better younger players are either to be drafted, or early in the development stage. The youth needs to be complemented. The youth, too, needs to play an important role, which is where this organization went wrong in the past. a guy like Balej needs to be on the top two lines, getting meaningful minutes, not on a fourth line watching. Getting a left winger like Rucinsky should not impede that, but should complement and enhance that.

And jas...not sure I'd want Murray or Ortmeyer anywhere near the top two lines on the Rangers. They're just not productive enough (not on an NHL level; not on an AHL level). Just because this team is undergoing a youth movement, hopefully, doesn't mean that undue expectations should be placed on these guys. Maybe Ortmeyer lands on Holik's right as a checker, although even in that role, you'd expect a guy to score.

Who said anything about Murray and Ortmeyer on the top two lines? I don't see either player right as a top six forward. (In fact, I don't see Ortmeyer being a top six forward.) OTOH, I could easily see a fourth line made up of Murray/Betts/Ortmeyer.

I'll throw a scenario out.

If Sather is able to secure a Malkin or Olesz in the draft, the likes of a Prucha comes over, Lindros signs at a reduced price, and one UFA forward is signed, I could see a lineup of the following:

Prucha/Olesz or Malkin/Jagr
JGreen/Lindros/Balej
Giroux/Holik/Barnaby or UFA
Murray/Betts/Ortmeyer

Tyutin/Mironov
Kasparitis/Kondratiev
Pock/Rachunek

Dunham/McLennan

Does that wow anyone? Hardly. But, there's veteran leadership in key spots (if someone wants to replace Mironov with someone else, so be it.)
And, it's a lineup geared for the future. Eventually the likes of Jessiman, Baranka, Liffiton, the Blackburn/Lundquist tandem, Taylor or Guenin, perhaps a Jonasen, Dawes, Immonen or Roche (that's for you, Reveille), and whatever key players are taken in the upcoming draft, will be eased into the proper slots. It's a long term approach that will be aided by a work stoppage as the core gets a chance to grow together.

You can get Allison for less than what you think. A player who hasn't played in a year and a half won't merit the kind of money a franchise player he used to be would make.

so nobody else is a josh green fan but me? :blush:

a comment: Holik and Jagr need to play on separate lines, for a couple reasons. For players (young players) to grow, they need to play with vets (a vet can be 25 years old, too). The Rangers are somewhat lucky to have a guy like Jagr, who a rookie/yoot can play with and get confidence. On another line, you have Holik. A banger and a skilled guy can play with Holik (checking top lines). Gotta get away from the one-line stuff that does in this team year-after-yera. Gotta spread things out better, and have players in roles that make sense (i.e., Jagr, top line winger; Holik, checking center).

Eh, all due respect Fletch, but the $9 million man plays where he is of most value to the team, not where he personally would excel the most or prefer to play.

Right now, Holik is far-and-away the best center on the roster for Jagr. He's easily the best defensive force, the best face-off man, and best scorer and playmaker available. Rookies do not play on the first line, no matter what. So nice upside guys like Immonen, Prucha, etc., are all on the back burner for at least a year or two. It's basically, Holik, Lundmark, or a UFA. Since I don't want to see the Rangers spend the 'big bucks' and acquire an appropriate No.1 center when they're paying Holik No.1 money, I'd prefer to see Holik suck-it-up and do what's necesary. Finding a capable 2nd line center for reasonable money (like Rolston, or Conroy if you prefer) is a lot easier than finding a top line center for anything less than top dollar.

Tyutin/Mironov
Kasparitis/Kondratiev
Pock/Rachunek

Now, you did not really think I would allow you to get away w/o the mandatory mention of the fact that the untradeable (IMO, off course :) ) Poti is somehow misplaced.

"but the $9 million man plays where he is of most value to the team, not where he personally would excel the most or prefer to play.

Right now, Holik is far-and-away the best center on the roster for Jagr. He's easily the best defensive force, the best face-off man, and best scorer and playmaker available."

And therein lies the problem with your thinking. As Melrose said a long time ago, just becuase you pay a guy Forsberg money, does not suddenly make Holik Forsberg. The amount of $$$ that he gets paid should not matter. He is NOT a top line center. Playing him and Jagr together on a line is ridiculous. Holik is the best checking, shut-down center in the game. Once you play him as anything but, you reduce him as a player and hurt the team. He should be going agaisnt the other team's top lines every night, every shift. Playing him with Jagr does not allow him to be such a player. Playing him with Jags is one of the many things that illustrate the problems of the Rangers over the last 7 years. Mismanagement of assets.
Play him with an Ortmeyer (though Fletch is right when he says that if Jed wants to be a 3rd line player, his offense has got to pick up just a bit) and say a Barnaby and you have a pretty good checking line. Said line will do the Rangers much more than a line w/ Holik & Jagr on it. Before you can start to worry about your own goals, you have to be able to prevent them.

Holik was not brought over to be a first line center. He's not paid what he is paid to be a first line center nor does the role suit him. He's a third line center there to shut down another team's first line, aggitate the hell out of them and occassionally toss up some points on the board.

Prucha(doubt he will come over this year though)/UFA or Lindros (at a cheaper rate)/Jagr
UFA/Immonen/Balej (if they are trying to get Immonen to come over, its not for Hartford)
Ortmeyer/Holik/Barnaby (perfect checking line to do the job listed above)
Murray/Betts/Giroux

Tyutin/Mironov
Kasparitis/Kondratiev
Pock/Rachunek

Dunham/cheap UFA back up (McLennan is a free agent and I can't see him wanting to return)

TB - You miss my point. I know why Holik was brought in, and I know that his paycheck in no way changes what he can do on the ice.

However, his paycheck does change who the Rangers can reasonably pursue off the ice in a possibly payroll capped league.

My argument is that Holik is the best 1st line center that the Rangers have, and are likely to obtain, without trading away substantial youth assets or further destroying their payroll structure. They do however have money to sign a 'decent' but unspectacular 2nd line center. Someone like Rolston, Conroy, etc. Given the choice of Rolston or Holik for Jagr, I think I'd go with Holik. But I could be pursuaded otherwise.

However, one thing I will absolutely not do is hand the 1st line job to Lundmark, or some other kid who clearly isn't remotely ready to handle it. That's asking for disaster and discontent. You do not put a 50-60 point beast like Holik in a subordinate role to a guy who can't play defense, win a face off, or score 30 points. Jagr won't accept it, Holik won't accept it, and whomever gets stuck at the top is going to feel like Manny Maholtra did a few years ago, like an ant caught between two giants.

No WAY do I want Allison here.

First, I don't even know that Allison has recovered from his concussion problems. Second, he's missed more games than Lindros has for cryin' out loud!