Bring Kariya/Selanne back?

So what do you think? Would you like to see the Duo back in Ducks jersey's? Or just one of them? Or neither of them?

bring Kariya
screw Selanne
but let's see
Kariya-Fedorov-Selanne..
hmmmmm

no.

Kariya if he signs for 2 or 3 million...not going to give him allstar money anymore...
Selanne no thanks...time to finish your career in Finland.

Actually I think Teemu would do fine here, he plays hard everynight and before he went to Colorado he still put up over 60 points.

But With all the other FA's out there there are other things that need to be upgraded but if we were to trade Sykora or something I wouldn't mind.

Did you folks SEE them play this year? Even when healthy, Kariya wasn't very good. And Selanne pretty much stunk the whole year.

For months everyone's crying about the Ducks having to get more intense and play more physical, so the last thing we need is to bring either of these two soft perimeter players with declining skills back into the fold.

Personally I think Selanne will comeback and be a successful goal-scorer again in this league. Kariya will continue to produce at about 60-70 points through the rest of his career.

But, no...I wouldn't want either of them back in Anaheim.

honestly they are done...

The new rule changes may help their game, but in today's NHL they aren't difference makers anymore.

Did you folks SEE them play this year? Even when healthy, Kariya wasn't very good. And Selanne pretty much stunk the whole year.

For months everyone's crying about the Ducks having to get more intense and play more physical, so the last thing we need is to bring either of these two soft perimeter players with declining skills back into the fold.
Yep. Plus bringing back Kariya necessarily means one of Chistov, Leclerc or Prospal goes. None of those are 4th liners. Kariya, assuming he has no renaissance, is another soft second liner. I'd keep Chistov and Leclerc over that. Prospal's another matter, but at 2.5 mil I bet he'd be cheaper than whatever we could sign Kariya for.

Selanne is nothing special anymore, he brings nothing we need.

Why not take a chance on Selanne? Realistically, what's the most he could on the market after this season (what, $1.5 mil?)

If Murray can get Kariya and Selanne for under $5 million combined, I say take the chance. Cement the team with 3 solid lines and make a deep playoff run.

If Kariya and/or Selanne comeback, I'd have to seriously consider season tickets. I didn't leave in So. Cal. full-time before last year, so it'd be a chance for me to watch them in person all season long.

:lol:

**** them! :yo:

Well contrary to what someone said about Kariya not playing well in Colorado when healthy I thought he was rather impressive in the 3 or 4 games shown on TV here, showed more speed than I have seen him possess since 98-99. Passes the puck too much now though just needs to let rip....anyway to answer the question I don't think it would be a good idea to sign either of them, nor do I think Bryan Murray will try too (definitely won't go for Selanne I dont think), nor do I think Kariya and/or Selanne wants to play here anymore anyways.

In the words of the great Strong Bad

"Its Over!"

I would bring Kariya back at 3 mil per...I watched a lot of Avs games this year with the purpose of seeing how Paul adjusted to Colorado and I also thought he looked good for the most part.

How many times can I vote, "Hell no!"?

Kariya played what.. 51 games this year.. and he still totaled about 36 points...
he played waaay better than Selanne..
i watched a bunch of their games nad Kariya did look like he got more speed, plus he was crashing the net more and standing in front of it... something he didn't do with the ducks... i remember posting it, and someone said the reason being is that he knows he will have back-up if there was a fight..
we all know none of our Ducks will stick up for one another besides Vish...

Theres better players available.

Aside from that Rob Niedermayer started to leave his mark on the first line at the wing, I think he will be an 18+ minute player a night and put up about 50 points if he stays healthy.

We do need a LW, I don't trust Leclerc because he's always injured so if theres a LW out there we should sign him.

Kariya played what.. 51 games this year.. and he still totaled about 36 points...
he played waaay better than Selanne..
i watched a bunch of their games nad Kariya did look like he got more speed, plus he was crashing the net more and standing in front of it... something he didn't do with the ducks... i remember posting it, and someone said the reason being is that he knows he will have back-up if there was a fight..
we all know none of our Ducks will stick up for one another besides Vish...
Yeah Garret Burnett and Lance Ward don't stick up for anyone. nobody defended Kariya this year...he was always hurt and the last thing we need is another injury prone player.

for the right price, I'd welcome both of em back. I mean, both of them can still contribute to the team, I think. It's a hockey decision, not a heart decision, Murray would be stupid to say no, if the price was reasonable.

Yeah Garret Burnett and Lance Ward don't stick up for anyone. nobody defended Kariya this year...he was always hurt and the last thing we need is another injury prone player.

i can vouch for that - even worrell didnt do his job on many nights, it was sad to see on many occassions our stars being abused without some decent muscle helping out

I say, why not? Kariya is more than a second liner, and paired with Fedorov would make the fastest combo in the NHL. Kariya would've had a great year, if not for injuries. He's not going to sign for megabucks, and probably around $3 million is what he wants, which is less than what Petey makes.

Selanne didn't have anything close to a good season, but he could come back, and there's no way he'll ask for over $2 million, unless he's dumb.

Both could help out the club, and sometimes you gotta take chances to win a cup.

Kariya-Fedorov-Niedermayer
Prospal-Rucchin-Sykora

*drool*

3 Words: DON'T COME BACK!!

I've always wanted to see Kariya paired on a line with Fedorov. From a plain hockey perspective I would bring Kariya back and not Selanne. From the heart, after last summer I dont think its going to happen. Teemu is done IMO, I've liked the guy for a long time but hes nowhere near the player he once was. Paul was hurt most of the year which brings up his health issues again. Wheres the "maybe" option?

Come on! No more speed, no more skill, let's get size for once, grit, power!

Both could help out the club, and sometimes you gotta take chances to win a cup.

Except neither player has been a major impact player in the playoffs any time in recent memory. If they couldn't help SJ/Col win a Cup, what makes you think they're going to help with what we need in Anaheim?

Are they going to suddenly help cut down on our defensive gaffes? Or magically transform into net-crashing power forwards? Of course not, they're just going to keep doing what they always have done ... play the minimum required amount of defense while waiting for an offensive rush, and float away on the perimeter waiting for a 35+ foot shot on net.

Forget about it, the Kariya/Selanne days are done. Even if they weren't in decline, and were a better fit, they still wouldn't come back. Kariya, let's not forget, is ultimately all about the money. Always has been. Even taking $1.2 mil was about getting UFA status this summer just so he could cash in again.

here we go again mmbt..
Kariya did nothing in the playoffs... he clocked in the most goals and tied in points
Kariya didn't play in Colorado's playoffs except for 1 game.. he got an assist...
Selanne is the one that you really should be bad mouthing and not Kariya..

here we go again mmbt..
Kariya did nothing in the playoffs... he clocked in the most goals and tied in points
Kariya didn't play in Colorado's playoffs except for 1 game.. he got an assist...


We had a bunch of players score about the same number of points in the playoffs, so does that mean they're all stars like Kariya, too?

You can play like crap and do nothing all night, then have one good chance and get a goal ... doesn't mean you had a better game than a guy who was out there playing with energy on every shift, played great defense, won a bunch of pucks on the boards, but who ends up with no points.


Selanne is the one that you really should be bad mouthing and not Kariya..

I thought I did. What's the last really good playoff series Selanne had? Pretty much not since the series against Phoenix in '97. But unfortunately you can say the same for Kariya. Neither has ever shown themselves to be the kind of playoff performer who can take over a series the way other superstars have.

no i agree with you on Selanne.. i meant that the bad mouthing should be done on him instead of Kariya
i think the goal scorers in the playoffs were
Kariya
Rucchin
Sykora
points i believe were
Kariya
Rucchin
Oates

those were the players that helped the team.. do i consider them stars during our run,yes.. they produced the points and plays to make it.
did Kariya have games that he didn't get anything done, sure.. but he still was our best player on the ice..
everyone has those games...

Wrong on both counts. Kariya was second to Rucchin in goals and Oates in points.

Even if he hadn't been and 12 points was enough to lead the team, 12 points in 21 games is a pathetic amount for a supposed gamebreaker. Kariya was only our "best player on the ice" in maybe 4 games. Otherwise that goes to Leclerc, Rucchin, Thomas, or Ozolinsh...etc. Assuming we ignore Giguere. If you mean he was our most talented player, you're right.
But he didn't do a hell of a lot. Game winner in game 1 OT. Tying goal in game 4. Meaningless goal in the game 5 blowout in Dallas. Then nothing until game 3 against the Wild, two goals in a blowout. Then nothing again until game 6 of the finals.

Rucchin played a critical role defending the best skater on every team.
Kariya took a lot of the other skaters when he would skate
that, of course left other players open..
ok so Rucchin had 7 goals, Kariya 6
Points Oates and Sykora 13, Kariya 12
Obviously Kariya had an impact.. and to say he didn't then i'm not even going to bother...

Kariya-Fedorov-Niedermayer
Prospal-Rucchin-Sykora

*drool*

Kariya-Forsberg-Selanne

OR

Kariya-Sakic-Selanne

*drool*...

AND THEN THEY FAILED COMPLETELY!

**** 'EM!

Wrong on both counts. Kariya was second to Rucchin in goals and Oates in points.

Even if he hadn't been and 12 points was enough to lead the team, 12 points in 21 games is a pathetic amount for a supposed gamebreaker. Kariya was only our "best player on the ice" in maybe 4 games. Otherwise that goes to Leclerc, Rucchin, Thomas, or Ozolinsh...etc. Assuming we ignore Giguere. If you mean he was our most talented player, you're right.
But he didn't do a hell of a lot. Game winner in game 1 OT. Tying goal in game 4. Meaningless goal in the game 5 blowout in Dallas. Then nothing until game 3 against the Wild, two goals in a blowout. Then nothing again until game 6 of the finals.
5 big goals to me. The two goals in the blowout helped put the final dagger into the Wild. That's good production to me. Granted not $10 million per year production, but he was a key part of the Finals run.

I hope none of you are getting your hopes up, after we boo'd Kariya he'd probably rather sign with the Kings to spite us.

here we go again mmbt..
Kariya did nothing in the playoffs... he clocked in the most goals and tied in points
Kariya didn't play in Colorado's playoffs except for 1 game.. he got an assist...
Selanne is the one that you really should be bad mouthing and not Kariya..
12 points in 21 games in the 2003 playoffs isn't star caliber production in the playoffs, over the course of a season thats about 45 points. We have bigger needs than acquiring another small,one way, injury prone, unphysical forward.

This team's number 1 target should be a physical top 4 defensemen or a Chris Simon type who will play physical and chip in 15 or so goals.

Kariya-Forsberg-Selanne

OR

Kariya-Sakic-Selanne

*drool*...

AND THEN THEY FAILED COMPLETELY!

**** 'EM!

Exactly. Any money spent on either of them could be better spent elsewhere.

I hope none of you are getting your hopes up, after we boo'd Kariya he'd probably rather sign with the Kings to spite us.
If you're talking to me, I don't want to see him back here.

Obviously Kariya had an impact.. and to say he didn't then i'm not even going to bother...

Good, don't bother.

5 big goals to me. The two goals in the blowout helped put the final dagger into the Wild. That's good production to me. Granted not $10 million per year production, but he was a key part of the Finals run.

Giguere put the dagger into the Wild, just like he did to everyone else we beat. He broke records left and right just so we could win by one goal. Our top offensive players were a miserable failure in the playoffs, and Kariya headlines that list.

I hope none of you are getting your hopes up, after we boo'd Kariya he'd probably rather sign with the Kings to spite us.

Thats ok, we dont want him. You guys can have The Ambiguously Gay Duo, these are a couple of the most overrated, overhyped players in in sports today.

If these guys sign with the same team again this summer they will have passed OJ Simpson and Al Cowlings as the biggest power couple in sports history.

Thats ok, we dont want him. You guys can have The Ambiguously Gay Duo, these are a couple of the most overrated, overhyped players in in sports today.

If these guys sign with the same team again this summer they will have passed OJ Simpson and Al Cowlings as the biggest power couple in sports history.
I dunno David Guest and Liza Minnelli are a tough act to follow.

Giguere put the dagger into the Wild, just like he did to everyone else we beat. He broke records left and right just so we could win by one goal. Our top offensive players were a miserable failure in the playoffs, and Kariya headlines that list.
True Giguere put the final dagger into the Wild. But how can you say our top offensive players were a miserable failure in the playoffs if we made it to game 7 of the Finals?

True Giguere put the final dagger into the Wild. But how can you say our top offensive players were a miserable failure in the playoffs if we made it to game 7 of the Finals?

So if you get to game 7 of the Finals, everyone must have done a great job? That's as ridiculous as saying that when you lose, everyone must have sucked.

Even if I gave credit to Kariya for one big game in a series where the opposition scored a whopping 1 goal in four games, and his lone bright spot in 6 periods in game 1 against Detroit, and his 10 glorious minutes in game 6 against NJ ... that's only 3 games out of 21 where you could honestly say he had much to do with the outcome of the game. That's hardly satisfactory.

I honestly can't recall a single time where the supposed best player on a team that went 4 rounds had only 3 "big" games the whole way (assuming you can even call game 1 against Detroit a bigtime performance). Guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, etc. ... when they won Cups, they sometimes put up 3 big games in each SERIES. Not 3 big games in four series.

This just provees to me what I've always suspected ... Kariya gets a free pass from some Ducks fans no matter what. There's always an excuse. Seriously, I can't imagine why he left such a cushy situation. $10 million bucks, and no expectations to live up to? Sign me up.

It's a pretty dumb statement to say that Kariya isn't that good after watching him this year. He was injured, and even then, he still did better PPG-wise than Vinny Prospal and Petr Sykora. Selanne's likely done, but Kariya still has some jump in him.

If Kariya's gonna come back for less than what Sykora gets paid, it is stupid to let him go sign somewhere else, like a conference rival, just because he wanted a shot at the cup.

It's a pretty dumb statement to say that Kariya isn't that good after watching him this year. He was injured, and even then, he still did better PPG-wise than Vinny Prospal and Petr Sykora. Selanne's likely done, but Kariya still has some jump in him.


He's still a good player, but he's nothing special ... there's a bunch of other perimeter players around the league who can give you close to the same impact and production. 7 years ago I thought he was the best perimeter player in the league by a big margin, and a legit MVP candidate, but he hasn't been anywhere near that level in years. At the level of play he's shown the last couple years, I'd say he's a 2nd line winger on a good team. If he's your best player, you're not winning jack squat.


If Kariya's gonna come back for less than what Sykora gets paid, it is stupid to let him go sign somewhere else, like a conference rival, just because he wanted a shot at the cup.

What good does it do to sign him if he doesn't fill any of our biggest needs, and in fact makes an already too-soft team even softer? Besides, the idea of, "keeping him away," from someone is fine if you're a contender trying to keep him from your closest rival, but when you're the Ducks you should just worry about building a good team yourself. I mean, are we so pathetic that all we have left is to play the role of the spoiler even in the offseason?

I can't believe there's still Ducks fans who would rather see us blow money on yet another perimeter player in lieu of fixing the team's actual deficiencies. It's almost like some of you don't mind losing so long as you have players on the team you like.

Kariya is one of the most skilled players in the NHL. His only problem (unlikSt.Louis for example) is he doesn't play tough, and he lacks confidence. (anymore) He has no excuse. His playing style is not acceptable. I believe he has the ability to do what St.Louis is doing, but just doesn't care enough. That being said, I don't think he really has a place on any team now. I would take him back at a bargain price, but nothing around fair value.

Ok, please don't bash Kariya's defensive game. If I remember correctly, in the 2002-2003 season he was very responsible and was the the player on the line that had to cover the 3rd forward down low. (with Oates and Sykora) That season he rarely turned the puck over (unless changing) and never got beat off the boards in the dzone. I wouldn't expect much change since then.

If the NHL were to call stickwork the way they've been promising to, he'd be a dangerous player. Until then, he will be a second liner.

NOW, if everyone here is going to bash Kariya in any way, I don't want to hear anything good ever about Sykora. I thought that all you guys were actually describing him.

I'm going to say what I've always said and trade Fedorov,Chistov,and Salei, and others for Kovalchuk.

It's a pretty dumb statement to say that Kariya isn't that good after watching him this year. He was injured, and even then, he still did better PPG-wise than Vinny Prospal and Petr Sykora. Selanne's likely done, but Kariya still has some jump in him.

If Kariya's gonna come back for less than what Sykora gets paid, it is stupid to let him go sign somewhere else, like a conference rival, just because he wanted a shot at the cup.
I'd rather have Glenn Murray for the same price.

It's a pretty dumb statement to say that Kariya isn't that good after watching him this year. He was injured, and even then, he still did better PPG-wise than Vinny Prospal and Petr Sykora.

I guess it depends on what your definition of that good is. Kariya's time-on-ice was almost identical to Vinny's and Pete's, and his 3 pro-rated extra points attest to the idea that he's about as effective as they are. That's a pretty rough estimate though, since you can bet that in every given shift Kariya was playing with significantly more talent surrounding him than the other two could hope for. We have two players like Kariya already. Do we need one who is less willing to penetrate the slot, less prone to big games, less amenable to suffering through this franchise's struggles?

Why?

If we can trade Prospal or Sykora i'd be fine with it but thats not going to happen.

Aside from that it would just be awkward, would Rucchin have to give the "C" back? How would Fedorov react to the guy returning that he was supposed to replace?How would the fans respond?

Just too many things against it, mark my words he's not coming back.

So if you get to game 7 of the Finals, everyone must have done a great job? That's as ridiculous as saying that when you lose, everyone must have sucked.

Even if I gave credit to Kariya for one big game in a series where the opposition scored a whopping 1 goal in four games, and his lone bright spot in 6 periods in game 1 against Detroit, and his 10 glorious minutes in game 6 against NJ ... that's only 3 games out of 21 where you could honestly say he had much to do with the outcome of the game. That's hardly satisfactory.

I honestly can't recall a single time where the supposed best player on a team that went 4 rounds had only 3 "big" games the whole way (assuming you can even call game 1 against Detroit a bigtime performance). Guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, etc. ... when they won Cups, they sometimes put up 3 big games in each SERIES. Not 3 big games in four series.

This just provees to me what I've always suspected ... Kariya gets a free pass from some Ducks fans no matter what. There's always an excuse. Seriously, I can't imagine why he left such a cushy situation. $10 million bucks, and no expectations to live up to? Sign me up.
I never said he did a great job. A "miserable failure" is hyperbole though. I said that Kariya produced, but was not close to $10 million production.

I never said he did a great job. A "miserable failure" is hyperbole though. I said that Kariya produced, but was not close to $10 million production.

But that's the thing ... he was one of the few players who played below expectations. Everyone else did their job, and in many cases more than their job. He did a lot less, and there's no denying that 3-4 "standout" games (more like 2 if you look more closely) out of 21 did not make him one of our top 5-6 players in the playoffs. To me, that's not acceptable. If he just plays up to his "average" level, we win a Cup.

NOW, if everyone here is going to bash Kariya in any way, I don't want to hear anything good ever about Sykora. I thought that all you guys were actually describing him.

Sykora makes a bearable salary for what he produces, and unlike Kariya he's had some very impressive playoffs in the past. He was the most dangerous offensive player for back-to-back Cup finalists (and a Cup winner). He's proven that if he's healthy (which unfortunately he wasn't for us in the playoffs) that he can produce in big games. In a big game, you'd be crazy to take Kariya over Sykora given their career history.

Sykora looked really awful this year

Sykora looked really awful this year

Outside of 2 or 3 guys, everybody did.

Kariya was the best player ever in a Ducks uniform

If he just plays up to his "average" level, we win a Cup.

Your other points make sense, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this conclusion.

Kariya was the best player ever in a Ducks uniform
So that excuses the fact that he's a liar and a no show for the playoffs?

So that excuses the fact that he's a liar and a no show for the playoffs?
so why blame him and not the rest of the team?

Because

Kariya was the best player ever in a Ducks uniform

Answered your own question.

Because



Answered your own question.
umm no.. if all of you guys are saying he isn't the best player as a Duck, and can constantly complain about him, then why are you not blaming the rest of the team

I don't think it's fair to say Kariya has to carry this team. The guy is one point off the team lead in the playoffs, and he gets reamed for the team having to pick up his production. Sykora had one more freaking point, and all of a sudden he was spectacular in the playoffs, while Kariya sucked major @$$. Just because he's the best player doesn't mean he has to carry the team. Did any of you even look at his regular season stats that year? He had 81 points, 22 more than Petey boy. Sykora had one more playoff point. Sykora is not worth more money than Paul Kariya, and believe that Pete's better all you want, but untill Sykora lights it up while Kariya hits the gutter, Kariya's been far and away the better player, and still is.

Holding a grudge is one of the worst PR moves a GM can make. Maybe BM wouldn't sign him because he's not needed, but on a team that lacks scoring, and the fact that having Kariya on your team tends to lead to scoring, I'd say he'd help this team out more than hurt it.

umm no.. if all of you guys are saying he isn't the best player as a Duck, and can constantly complain about him, then why are you not blaming the rest of the team
We have been. But this thread is about your boy Kariya.

I don't think it's fair to say Kariya has to carry this team.

He didn't have to carry the team. Jiggy did that. He just had to do his job, and he didn't.

The guy is one point off the team lead in the playoffs, and he gets reamed for the team having to pick up his production.

Are you seriously going to say that 12 points was good enough? From our best player? mmbt is right. Kariya's ***** just doesn't stink to some people.

Sykora had one more freaking point, and all of a sudden he was spectacular in the playoffs, while Kariya sucked major @$$.

Sykora sucked too, but he's not the leader or the best player. Sykora's failure was certainly not as glaring as Kariya's. Pretending that you expected equal production from Kariya and Sykora is just manufacturing an excuse in reverse. Your boy tanked, big time. He let us all down on the ice, and then he let us all down off the ice. But for sure, keep polishing his knob. Lord knows you can never have too much of a free pass.

Did any of you even look at his regular season stats that year? He had 81 points, 22 more than Petey boy.

And....c'mon, finish the statement. He made 3 times as much money as Sykora at the time. Since when are Kariya and Sykora the same kind of player? Why does Sykora's above-averageness justify Kariya's failure? He did his job in the regular season, though 25 goals from a top line winger is only marginal for the position.

Holding a grudge is one of the worst PR moves a GM can make. Maybe BM wouldn't sign him because he's not needed, but on a team that lacks scoring, and the fact that having Kariya on your team tends to lead to scoring, I'd say he'd help this team out more than hurt it.

We've been one of the lowest-scoring team almost every year of our existence, most of the time while the old Kariya was still around. We don't need another perimeter player, beatified by the ignorant legions or not. We need penetration in the slot combined with soft hands, we need crease-clearers and clear heads on the blue line. We don't need another uneventful 20 goals. That's not any better than anyone we already have could produce in a full season on Fedorov's left. The money's better spent elsewhere. You'll just have to shop for a new #9 jersey.

He didn't have to carry the team. Jiggy did that. He just had to do his job, and he didn't.



Are you seriously going to say that 12 points was good enough? From our best player? mmbt is right. Kariya's ***** just doesn't stink to some people.



Sykora sucked too, but he's not the leader or the best player. Sykora's failure was certainly not as glaring as Kariya's. Pretending that you expected equal production from Kariya and Sykora is just manufacturing an excuse in reverse. Your boy tanked, big time. He let us all down on the ice, and then he let us all down off the ice. But for sure, keep polishing his knob. Lord knows you can never have too much of a free pass.



And....c'mon, finish the statement. He made 3 times as much money as Sykora at the time. Since when are Kariya and Sykora the same kind of player? Why does Sykora's above-averageness justify Kariya's failure? He did his job in the regular season, though 25 goals from a top line winger is only marginal for the position.



We've been one of the lowest-scoring team almost every year of our existence, most of the time while the old Kariya was still around. We don't need another perimeter player, beatified by the ignorant legions or not. We need penetration in the slot combined with soft hands, we need crease-clearers and clear heads on the blue line. We don't need another uneventful 20 goals. That's not any better than anyone we already have could produce in a full season on Fedorov's left. The money's better spent elsewhere. You'll just have to shop for a new #9 jersey.


I'm not saying his playof production was good enough, nor that his play justified his salary, but he is a better player than Sykora, and the point is that if he'll come back for $3 million, or maybe $3.5 million, he'd be a good addition. If he asks for even $5 million, I'm with everyone else that he can go to somewhere else if he wants that type of cash.

Kariya is showing he's more of a playmaker. Pair him with a goal scorer like Lupul or Sykora, and that player scores more goals as a result. Alot more. I think his last season here showed us that he's more valuble passing the puck than shooting.

While we need a gritty player, it's dumb to turn him away so we can sign Chris Simon. Sign a gritty player to play 3rd line, or even 2nd, but not 1st. That's when you sign the superstars who put up points.

And about him carrying the team, I should have worded it different. He was our best player, but from the vibe I got from you, it seems like you wanted him to lead the league in points, instead of his 12 points. No, 12 points isn't good, but compared to our production, it's not pathetic, either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Langenbrunner lead the league with 18 points? That's only 6 less than the league lead, which is by no real means pathetic. But, then again, it's not good either.

I'm not saying his playof production was good enough, nor that his play justified his salary, but he is a better player than Sykora, and the point is that if he'll come back for $3 million, or maybe $3.5 million, he'd be a good addition. If he asks for even $5 million, I'm with everyone else that he can go to somewhere else if he wants that type of cash.

Okay, assume for a second he would play for $3 mil. Is that a bargain for his caliber of player? Absolutely. But it still doesn't address any of our biggest needs. It'd be like blowing a wad of cash on a starting goaltender ... even if you get a "bargain," it'd be a waste.

Of course, it's all moot, because no way Kariya plays for less money. He's ALWAYS been about the money ... even taking $1.2 mil with the Avs was with an eye towards a big free agent score this summer. His entire career has shown him to be a pretty bottom line guy financially speaking.


Kariya is showing he's more of a playmaker. Pair him with a goal scorer like Lupul or Sykora, and that player scores more goals as a result. Alot more. I think his last season here showed us that he's more valuble passing the puck than shooting.

Over the years, he never really made any linemates score more than you would otherwise expect. Yeah, he's a nice passer, but who has he ever turned into a goal scorer? Heck, Rucchin's best goal scoring years came when he played on other lines.


While we need a gritty player, it's dumb to turn him away so we can sign Chris Simon. Sign a gritty player to play 3rd line, or even 2nd, but not 1st. That's when you sign the superstars who put up points.

If all you have is a bunch of superstars who are all perimeter players on your top lines, you won't go far. A somewhat skilled player with grit makes your perimeter players better, gives them more room to operate. If it were Kariya still here and not Fedorov, I'd still be saying we need more grit up front rather than a skilled perimeter player, even at a bargain price .... you see, it's not even about Kariya, it's purely about what the team needs. They don't need a Kariya type player nearly as badly as many other things.

Really, think about it, you bring back Kariya, you got Fedorov, Sykora, Prospal ... that's 2/3 of your top 2 lines that are going to be perimeter guys. Then we all want someone like Chistov to break out, and if he does that would be 5 out of the top 6. Guys that will play a combined 40-45 minutes of the game. In other words, say hello to the softest team in the league. It doesn't matter if you've got grit on lines that play 5-10 minutes a game if the rest of your team consists of guys who would rather shoot from 30+ feet.

Okay, assume for a second he would play for $3 mil. Is that a bargain for his caliber of player? Absolutely. But it still doesn't address any of our biggest needs. It'd be like blowing a wad of cash on a starting goaltender ... even if you get a "bargain," it'd be a waste.

Of course, it's all moot, because no way Kariya plays for less money. He's ALWAYS been about the money ... even taking $1.2 mil with the Avs was with an eye towards a big free agent score this summer. His entire career has shown him to be a pretty bottom line guy financially speaking.



Over the years, he never really made any linemates score more than you would otherwise expect. Yeah, he's a nice passer, but who has he ever turned into a goal scorer? Heck, Rucchin's best goal scoring years came when he played on other lines.



If all you have is a bunch of superstars who are all perimeter players on your top lines, you won't go far. A somewhat skilled player with grit makes your perimeter players better, gives them more room to operate. If it were Kariya still here and not Fedorov, I'd still be saying we need more grit up front rather than a skilled perimeter player, even at a bargain price .... you see, it's not even about Kariya, it's purely about what the team needs. They don't need a Kariya type player nearly as badly as many other things.

Really, think about it, you bring back Kariya, you got Fedorov, Sykora, Prospal ... that's 2/3 of your top 2 lines that are going to be perimeter guys. Then we all want someone like Chistov to break out, and if he does that would be 5 out of the top 6. Guys that will play a combined 40-45 minutes of the game. In other words, say hello to the softest team in the league. It doesn't matter if you've got grit on lines that play 5-10 minutes a game if the rest of your team consists of guys who would rather shoot from 30+ feet.

everyone on his side put up better numbers ... he still makes the players around him better! he scored just 25 goals when he was the most defensive forward on the kariya/oates/sykora line. he had to take care of his own end. rucchin had to do this job on the kariya/rucchin/selanne line.

what really makes me lough is the fact that most of you put fedorov so far over kariya becaus he's a better defensive player, better offensivly ....... hell he was -5 this season not much better than kariya. although he scored a few more goals his total point production was far behind kariya's 81 pts. and the best thing he will get more expensive and he is already 34.

good job murray --> i said it before he made the team weaker and the team was weaker this season. get kariya back!!!! if there wasn't the improvement of vish and the promising showing of lupul this season would have been worse than it already was!!!

what if kariya was burnt out a little bit and he needed a change to come back at full strenght??? just and idea for all "i don't want him back posters". i'm a huge fan of the ducks and the only thing i wish for next season is to see kariya in a ducks uniform together with brent, getzlaf and perry. the ducks need that change. just my opinion!!!

everyone on his side put up better numbers ...

No they didn't.

he still makes the players around him better!

Who?

he scored just 25 goals when he was the most defensive forward on the kariya/oates/sykora line.

That's like being the most handsome on a Ricci-Oates-Niedermayer line. I'd also dispute the idea that his lack of production was due to any commitment to defense.

what really makes me lough is the fact that most of you put fedorov so far over kariya becaus he's a better defensive player, better offensivly ....... hell he was -5 this season not much better than kariya.

Have you ever watched them play? I loathe Fedorov, moreso than Kariya, and even I can admit that he's a good defensive player, miles ahead of Kariya. Holy crap, Markus.

although he scored a few more goals his total point production was far behind kariya's 81 pts. and the best thing he will get more expensive and he is already 34.

Actually he gets less expensive after this season. Besides, you're falling into the "other people suck more" defense, which is pretty sad if that's the best defense you can think of for your favorite guy.

good job murray --> i said it before he made the team weaker and the team was weaker this season. get kariya back!!!! if there wasn't the improvement of vish and the promising showing of lupul this season would have been worse than it already was!!!

You're crazy.

Just for the sake of argument people..
what would you rather have.. assuming Kariya/Selanne come to the Ducks for a fee.. let's say 8 mil combined
what would you prefer
Kariya/Fedorov/Selanne
or
our failed top line
???/Fedorov/???
since Babs always mixes it up..

Just for the sake of argument people..
what would you rather have.. assuming Kariya/Selanne come to the Ducks for a fee.. let's say 8 mil combined
what would you prefer
Kariya/Fedorov/Selanne
or
our failed top line
???/Fedorov/???
since Babs always mixes it up..
I can't imagine any scenario where I'd accept Selanne as he is today over anyone we have at right wing.

I can't imagine any scenario where I'd accept Selanne as he is today over anyone we have at right wing.
I agree, i don't want Selanne either, but i'm saying this.. ok let's put it this way
Kariya/Fedorov/Lupul
or
Kariya/Fedorov/Sykora

It's been said over and over. We don't need 20 easy goals. We need goals that will mean something when the other team decides to crack down. Kariya's not the guy to get them.

That line you put together won't score a single ugly goal. All three or four of them disappear under pressure. What the hell kind of first line is that?

so why blame him and not the rest of the team?
Because everyone else performed up too or exceeded expectations unless Patrick Kjellberg is your only other nominee.

It's been said over and over. We don't need 20 easy goals. We need goals that will mean something when the other team decides to crack down. Kariya's not the guy to get them.

That line you put together won't score a single ugly goal. All three or four of them disappear under pressure. What the hell kind of first line is that?
i don't know if you watched any of the AV's games but Kariya would crash the net and park himself by the net a good amount of times..
who on our team does that?

Because everyone else performed up too or exceeded expectations unless Patrick Kjellberg is your only other nominee.
so you expected Kariya to get 100 points??
he hasn't had that many points for a few years..
he played to my expectations.. 81 points is good

Just to bring some prospective to how bad Kariya was in the playoffs.

He was 17th in scoring with 12 points playing 21 games, Marty St.Louis had the same amount of points in 11 games. Kariya was tied with Jay Pandolfo. Doug Weight had 13 points in 7 games, Mike Modano had 15 in 12, Zubov had similar.

The 17th best scorer, behind the likes of Wes Walz,Andrew Brunette, and Jeff Friesen. he was absolutely terrible.

so you expected Kariya to get 100 points??
he hasn't had that many points for a few years..
he played to my expectations.. 81 points is good
He had a good regular season, even though he only had 25 goals. He was a perimeter player we all saw it, he always shot from the outside. Kariya used to be a 40 goal/100 point guy, he was paid 10 million to be that player.

He had a good regular season, even though he only had 25 goals. He was a perimeter player we all saw it, he always shot from the outside. Kariya used to be a 40 goal/100 point guy, he was paid 10 million to be that player.
yes, we paid him the big $$
but last time he scored 100 points was in 98
yes i admit thathis goals dropped, but he raised his assists drastically..
plus we know that babcock changed his style as well..
Kariya was an offensive minded player.. shoot first pass later..
but babs changed him to try and be a defensive player and pass more, which lead to him having more assists

i don't know if you watched any of the AV's games but Kariya would crash the net and park himself by the net a good amount of times..

Come on, now you're gonna try and convince us KARIYA of all people can be the power forward we need? Who's gonna buy that? We watched him play on the perimeter for 9 years.

Come on, now you're gonna try and convince us KARIYA of all people can be the power forward we need? Who's gonna buy that? We watched him play on the perimeter for 9 years.
i'm not saying he's a power forward. i simply stated what he did this year.. and do the ducks do it? no

everyone on his side put up better numbers ... he still makes the players around him better! he scored just 25 goals when he was the most defensive forward on the kariya/oates/sykora line. he had to take care of his own end. rucchin had to do this job on the kariya/rucchin/selanne line.

what really makes me lough is the fact that most of you put fedorov so far over kariya becaus he's a better defensive player, better offensivly ....... hell he was -5 this season not much better than kariya. although he scored a few more goals his total point production was far behind kariya's 81 pts. and the best thing he will get more expensive and he is already 34.

good job murray --> i said it before he made the team weaker and the team was weaker this season. get kariya back!!!! if there wasn't the improvement of vish and the promising showing of lupul this season would have been worse than it already was!!!
Wityh Fedorov you know your gonna get the 30-35 goals, we need a finisher with him so his assist total will get up around 40-50. Kariya is not a finisher we need to get bigger and tougher.

Right now our top two lines look like this

Niedermayer/Fedorov/?
Prospal/Rucchin/Sykora?Lupul?Chistov?Leclerc?

I would like a real #1 right wing so we do not have to rely of Joffrey Lupul or an inconsistant Petr Sykora. Chris Simon may not be a first liner but he can do the dirty work on the top line in spurts. Bryan Murray knows talent wise we have a great group of forwards but he is trying to mix in some grit. Now if Kariya comes and says put me with Fedorov, I'll score goals and will play for under 5 mil i'd be fine with it but he's not a goal scorer it seems now.

There are plenty of free agents that fits this teams needs more than the weasal.

Wityh Fedorov you know your gonna get the 30-35 goals, we need a finisher with him so his assist total will get up around 40-50. Kariya is not a finisher we need to get bigger and tougher.

Right now our top two lines look like this

Niedermayer/Fedorov/?
Prospal/Rucchin/Sykora?Lupul?Chistov?Leclerc?

I would like a real #1 right wing so we do not have to rely of Joffrey Lupul or an inconsistant Petr Sykora. Chris Simon may not be a first liner but he can do the dirty work on the top line in spurts. Bryan Murray knows talent wise we have a great group of forwards but he is trying to mix in some grit. Now if Kariya comes and says put me with Fedorov, I'll score goals and will play for under 5 mil i'd be fine with it but he's not a goal scorer it seems now.

There are plenty of free agents that fits this teams needs more than the weasal.

Like I've said before, it's dumb to sign Chris Simon to play first line when there's guys like Kariya available. Hell, we don't even need Kariya, when we have Lupul and Sykora. I wouldn't mind having Lupul on line 1 at all, as it's not relying on him, it's more relying on Fedorov, which isn't bad. Lupul's probably only going to get better, and with his shot, our first line could easily pump in the goals, with him, Fedorov, and Nieds.

i don't know if you watched any of the AV's games but Kariya would crash the net and park himself by the net a good amount of times..
who on our team does that?

Yeah, I did, and no, he didn't. You're making things up. Like:

yes i admit thathis goals dropped, but he raised his assists drastically..

Since...when? 99? In 99 he had 62 assists. Since then he's averaged 37 per season. Sort of the opposite of a drastic raise.

I can't believe you're portraying Kariya as the answer to our problems.

Yeah, I did, and no, he didn't. You're making things up. Like:



Since...when? 99? In 99 he had 62 assists. Since then he's averaged 37 per season. Sort of the opposite of a drastic raise.

I can't believe you're portraying Kariya as the answer to our problems.
you know what booger.. forget it.. you have the the most closed mind out of anyone here that posts..
Kariya did crash the net, Kariya did stay down by the goalie.. i even posted it before on our threads when someone asked about Kariya.. and the reason why he did it, was because he had guys that would back him up if someone wanted to start a fight..
'99 was so long ago.. if you guys are going to talk about goals/points as well.. then why go that far back..
my point is that he brought the most points from any dam player the ducks ever had...

you know what booger.. forget it.. you have the the most closed mind out of anyone here that posts..

:cry:

Kariya did crash the net, Kariya did stay down by the goalie..

No, he didn't. He did his Kariya thing where he zips around and eventually gets himself open for a quick shot in the high slot, which is usually blocked.

i even posted it before on our threads when someone asked about Kariya.. and the reason why he did it, was because he had guys that would back him up if someone wanted to start a fight..

Well then it MUST be true, if you said it more than once. That's the rule.

'99 was so long ago.. if you guys are going to talk about goals/points as well.. then why go that far back..

You're the one who talked about 98 and how Kariya's assists had risen drastically. Don't blame me because you didn't do your research.

if you read other posts, you would see that someone else posted that he got 100 points and is what they expected, so i told them that it was done a long time ago... so go back and read some old posts.. i know it must be hard for you

SSC: Why in the world would you want Kariya back? This team came within two periods of winning the Stanley Cup in 2003. Rather than take a pay cut (to a salary that was still probably more than he deserved)----which would have enabled the Ducks to resign Kariya AND bring in his buddy, Teemu----Kariya jumped ship, ostensibly because he thought his chances of winning the Cup were better on a talented team with an inexperienced goalie. That was a terrific slap in the face to the Ducks organization and Ducks fans.

This was the guy who always said that he wanted to win a Cup in Anaheim. He is a gifted, but one-dimensional, player. He can't hold a candle to Fedorov as an overall talent. If the Ducks can pick up a Power Forward (who doesn't cost them an arm and a leg) via Free Agency or trade, by all means, do it.

Let's go forward. Kariya and Selanne are a part of our history, but have no place in our future.

SSC: Why in the world would you want Kariya back? This team came within two periods of winning the Stanley Cup in 2003. Rather than take a pay cut (to a salary that was still probably more than he deserved)----which would have enabled the Ducks to resign Kariya AND bring in his buddy, Teemu----Kariya jumped ship, ostensibly because he thought his chances of winning the Cup were better on a talented team with an inexperienced goalie. That was a terrific slap in the face to the Ducks organization and Ducks fans.

This was the guy who always said that he wanted to win a Cup in Anaheim. He is a gifted, but one-dimensional, player. He can't hold a candle to Fedorov as an overall talent. If the Ducks can pick up a Power Forward (who doesn't cost them an arm and a leg) via Free Agency or trade, by all means, do it.

Let's go forward. Kariya and Selanne are a part of our history, but have no place in our future.
Kick-
here are my reasons
1)Kariya has been with the organization his whole career, and played well for the Ducks
2)He holds all the records possible for a player
3)He is the best Ducks player
Now for him leaving, these are speculations now
1)Him and Babs or was it BM didn't get along
2)He didn't like Babs defensive style of play
3)BM didn't want Selanne back

I agree that Fedorov is a better player than Kariya, but like i said, can you see a line of Fedorov and Kariya???
i knew Prospal wold be a flop.
let me give you this scenario
put yourself in Kariya's shoes...
you guys are 1 win away from the Cup, the team had chemistry
now the season is over
you loose Oates and Thomas
what faith do you have in the team now?
Look at the Marlins when they first won their World Series, after the season was done, the owner let everyone go... what happened next? the marlins were s-h-i-t-t-y

1.Kariya ditched the organization at it's highest peak...nice way to try and build something paul.
2.It's not hard to hold record for an 11 year old franchise.
3.He has been,but he's not anymore and likely won't be again.

1.Kariya praised Babcock publicly about his coaching, also praised BM for being able to upgrade all the things Gauthier neglected such as weight rooms,video etc
2.Even if he didn't like it he had his highest point total in years, he wasn't relied upon to play great defense. Just enough on the outside to keep defensemen from making cross ice passes.
3.BM said the reason for Pauls paycut was to bring in Selanne.

Did prospal flop?if you expected a PPG, he got to 55 points, I would hardly call that a flop for what we're going to be paying him.

RE:Oates/Thomas, Oates wouldn't take a paycut and Steve didn't want to return is that Bryan Murrays fault?

Kick-
here are my reasons
1)Kariya has been with the organization his whole career, and played well for the Ducks
2)He holds all the records possible for a player
3)He is the best Ducks player

He's not any of those things anymore.

Now for him leaving, these are speculations now
1)Him and Babs or was it BM didn't get along
2)He didn't like Babs defensive style of play
3)BM didn't want Selanne back

All of those "problems" remain. You want him back in that situation?

I agree that Fedorov is a better player than Kariya, but like i said, can you see a line of Fedorov and Kariya???

I can see a line of Fedorov and Kariya taking us the same place a line of Selanne and Kariya took us...nowhere.

i knew Prospal wold be a flop.

Prospal was a flop?

let me give you this scenario
put yourself in Kariya's shoes...
you guys are 1 win away from the Cup, the team had chemistry
now the season is over
you loose Oates and Thomas
what faith do you have in the team now?


We hadn't lost anybody when Kariya jumped ship. He signed with Colorado on 3 July, 2 days into his free agency. BM was still looking at Oates and Stumpy at the time. All of a sudden he had to deal with a major hole in the offense, etc. etc. Sorry, soya. He's not a victim. He's on record with Selanne talking about how they had Colorado in mind the instant free agency loomed, before July 1 when BM told him he wouldn't be qualified. He said "no problem" and then schemed to get the hell out of town.

Did prospal flop?if you expected a PPG, he got to 55 points, I would hardly call that a flop for what we're going to be paying him.

RE:Oates/Thomas, Oates wouldn't take a paycut and Steve didn't want to return is that Bryan Murrays fault?

Prospal was a huge upgrade on Oates with the way Adam played for Edmonton. I'd even say Prospal this year was better than Oates last year.

OT: Man, I hate the off-season.

C'mon, just 5 more months till opening night.