Bolts vs Flyers [Archive]

petec1978*

05-05-2004, 08:42 AM

I think if Esche matches Khabi,

He doesn't on paper... and as far as Philly's alleged edge in offensive weapons goes, the Flyers only had one player over 60 points in scoring (Recchi, 75). The Lightning had four.

The Flyers had no 30 goal scorers. The Lightning had two, and Fredrik Modin with 29.

The Flyers had four 20 goal scorers. The Lightning had six.

The Flyers scored 229 goals during the regular season, the Lightning scored 245.

My point is, the Flyers have the names, but the Lightning actually have the substance.

This series boils down to which team generates forecheck and hems the other into their own zone. Philly's size on paper seems to give them an advantage on the Lightning's smaller d corps, especially with Cullimore out but the Lightning's mobility on the backline helped them during the regular season to move the puck out efficiently before the Flyers big forecheckers got in on them. For the Lightning, they have to beat the Flyers d-men to loose pucks on the forecheck and they have to convert their power play opportunities.

X factor is Khabi. If he stays hot, Philly is toast irregardless of what the rest of the Lightning do.

-Pete Choquette

Dr Love

05-05-2004, 10:38 AM

He doesn't on paper... and as far as Philly's alleged edge in offensive weapons goes, the Flyers only had one player over 60 points in scoring (Recchi, 75). The Lightning had four.

The Flyers had no 30 goal scorers. The Lightning had two, and Fredrik Modin with 29.

The Flyers had four 20 goal scorers. The Lightning had six.

The Flyers scored 229 goals during the regular season, the Lightning scored 245.

My point is, the Flyers have the names, but the Lightning actually have the substance.

Your argument is flawed, it rests on the presumption that the regular season is indictave of the way the players are playing now, and that regular season scoring translates 1:1 into playoff scoring. Neither of which are true.

Alexei Zhamnov has 12 points in 11 games, Jeremy Roenick has 10. Those numbers are not a reflection of their numbers in the regular season. On the flipside, Dave Andreychuk has 0 goals, Mark Recchi has 2. Those numbers aren't a reflection of their regular season either. You're also not taking into account makeup of the teams. The Flyers don't have big gun scorers, where as the Lightning do. But part of that is because the Flyers play a tighter game, the Lightning play a more open game (and to ying that yang, part of the reason that the teams play their styles is because of the players they have, it's a two way street), and the Flyers' top players are generally past their prime while the Lighnting's top players are generally in their prime. The style of play alone are a contrast (well, a contrast in today's NHL, basically every team plays a tight game, it's just a matter of how tight, so it's all relative). You make it sound like the Lightning have all these goal scorers and that the Flyers can't match their output, yet with all these great scorers on Tampa and all these minimal scorers on Philly, the Lightning scored only 16 more goals than the Flyers during the season. Meanwhile the Flyers allowed 6 fewer goals, so we're talking about a net difference of 10 goals, which is basically nothing.

In fact, your argument backfires on you, because you claim the Flyers have the names but not the substance, and the Lightning have the substance but not the names (or at least, that is how it appears). When in fact the reality is the Lightning do have the names--St. Louis, LeCavalier, Richards, Modin; and the Flyers do have the substance. The Lightning ranked 3rd most goals, the Flyers ranked 8th. Tampa had 5 players that scored over 40 points, the Flyers had 7. A margin of two, which is the same margin in the two goal scoring examples you listed above.

Another thing you've overlooked is Zhamnov, who scored 18 points in 20 games for the Flyers, and has, as stated before, 12 points in 11 games in the playoffs. His impact is tremendous, and isn't shown in your evaluation because you limit it to only to juicy stats.

I'm not proclaiming that the Flyers are some grandiose offensive machine, but your argument makes assumptions and overlooks some important stuff.

Cyclops II*

05-05-2004, 10:51 AM

X factor is Khabi. If he stays hot, Philly is toast irregardless of what the rest of the Lightning do.

-Pete Choquette

As long as khabibulin doesn't give up weak goals like he did in the playoffs last year Tampa has a decided advantage in nets. As long as the rest of the team plays as well as they did against Montreal they should win

IceLady80

05-05-2004, 10:53 AM

Several former Springfield Players in this series.

Tampa- Nikoli and Dimitri Afetsengkov(i know spelling is off) tampa probably has a few other former players in the stands. (cibak, willis etc..)

Philly- Robert Eshe, Branko Radovojvic, Sami Kapenon i think there is another but cant think of it.

swflyers8*

05-05-2004, 11:30 AM

My point is, the Flyers have the names, but the Lightning actually have the substance.

They both have names and substance.

X factor is Khabi. If he stays hot, Philly is toast irregardless of what the rest of the Lightning do.

No offense, but he hasn't been tested that much. And that's a compliment to your team that he didn't have much work to do.

The slate is wiped clean in the playoffs. We know it, your players know it as Brad Richards says in the St. Pete Times. Your players know that this team isn't the same one they have beaten in the regular season.

Cuiffitelli

05-05-2004, 12:06 PM

Your argument is flawed, it rests on the presumption that the regular season is indictave of the way the players are playing now, and that regular season scoring translates 1:1 into playoff scoring. Neither of which are true.

Alexei Zhamnov has 12 points in 11 games, Jeremy Roenick has 10. Those numbers are not a reflection of their numbers in the regular season. On the flipside, Dave Andreychuk has 0 goals, Mark Recchi has 2. Those numbers aren't a reflection of their regular season either. You're also not taking into account makeup of the teams. The Flyers don't have big gun scorers, where as the Lightning do. But part of that is because the Flyers play a tighter game, the Lightning play a more open game (and to ying that yang, part of the reason that the teams play their styles is because of the players they have, it's a two way street), and the Flyers' top players are generally past their prime while the Lighnting's top players are generally in their prime. The style of play alone are a contrast (well, a contrast in today's NHL, basically every team plays a tight game, it's just a matter of how tight, so it's all relative). You make it sound like the Lightning have all these goal scorers and that the Flyers can't match their output, yet with all these great scorers on Tampa and all these minimal scorers on Philly, the Lightning scored only 16 more goals than the Flyers during the season. Meanwhile the Flyers allowed 6 fewer goals, so we're talking about a net difference of 10 goals, which is basically nothing.

In fact, your argument backfires on you, because you claim the Flyers have the names but not the substance, and the Lightning have the substance but not the names (or at least, that is how it appears). When in fact the reality is the Lightning do have the names--St. Louis, LeCavalier, Richards, Modin; and the Flyers do have the substance. The Lightning ranked 3rd most goals, the Flyers ranked 8th. Tampa had 5 players that scored over 40 points, the Flyers had 7. A margin of two, which is the same margin in the two goal scoring examples you listed above.

Another thing you've overlooked is Zhamnov, who scored 18 points in 20 games for the Flyers, and has, as stated before, 12 points in 11 games in the playoffs. His impact is tremendous, and isn't shown in your evaluation because you limit it to only to juicy stats.

I'm not proclaiming that the Flyers are some grandiose offensive machine, but your argument makes assumptions and overlooks some important stuff.

Well said

Bulrog

05-05-2004, 03:16 PM

As far as the Bolts are concerned, I think the keys to winning the series are:

1. Speed. The Flyers are probably faster than most people realize, but w/ Col. and Ott. out of the playoffs, there isn't a team left that can skate with the Lightning. It was the Lightning's speed that created turnovers in the previous series, and allowed the Lightning to fly up and down the ice seemingly at will, at times.

2. PowerPlay. The Lightning have plenty of weapons, but the PP has been pretty dismal (although I thought it looked better toward the end of the MTL series). There's no question that Philly will try and play a physical game, and, if the Bolts can refrain from stupid penalties, they should get plenty of PP time. Now would be a good time for Andy to get going.

3. Goaltending (Duh). I thought that the Lightning would need Khabi to steal at least one game per series for the Bolts to advance, although that's probably true of any team. However, I don't think one game will be enough against Philly. I think Khabi will have to steal two.

Hoek

05-05-2004, 03:49 PM

No offense, but he hasn't been tested that much.

Have you seen the highlights? Particularly the Islanders series? We are talking about some absolutely ginormous saves, including one made only by the skate blade (Giguere-esque) against Alexei Yashin, but also several point blank one-timers he had no business stopping. Trust me, he's been tested and we've been outshot in many of our playoff games to this point, believe it or not.

JOHNBOY

05-05-2004, 03:58 PM

We can't match Philly size but they can't match our speed. Im not scared

We might not match your team's speed but remember, we have some real quick Euro D-men that could just about keep up with the majority of your players.

Coburnfan05

05-05-2004, 04:25 PM

Have you seen the highlights? Particularly the Islanders series? We are talking about some absolutely ginormous saves, including one made only by the skate blade (Giguere-esque) against Alexei Yashin, but also several point blank one-timers he had no business stopping. Trust me, he's been tested and we've been outshot in many of our playoff games to this point, believe it or not.

We have been outshot in probably the majority of our games as well...I watched some of the isles series and he was definetly the boulin wall. Sam ewith Esche he has been stellar for us, early in the devils series he was probably the main reason we won and lst night late in the 3rd and in OT he came up with big saves. Funny thing is all 4 teams left have great gaoltending and arguably have all flown under the radar. Habby has the edge over Esche because of the expirience, but then again I said the same thing about Brodeur and Belfour. ;)

The difference is TB played the Isles and habs, neither known for going hard to the net, sso it will be a different type of attack the the lighning face. On the flip side the flyers haven't faced a team with the speed of Tampa. Philly is faster then most people think and we have only allowed 3 odd man rushes against us so far in the playoffs.

I have no doubt that this series will be a long one and I hope to see great injury free games. Game #1 in particular Tampa will be in a wierd position, having 8 days off if they win they are well rested, if they lose they are rusty. I don't think TB will be rusty and Philly will still be riding an emotional high from beating Toronto...I can't wait for game #1.

FlyHigh

05-05-2004, 04:42 PM

TB is a fantastic team, but let's not remember that they really haven't had that hard of a road to hoe. The NYI were the doormat of the Eastern playoff seeds and Montreal was the 7 seed (ah the benefits of being No.1). Meanwhile, the Flyers have beaten 2 of the best goalies in the NHL (Belfour >> Theodore IMO).

This being said, I love TB's talent up front and on the backline and the Bulin Wall is really something to be reckoned with. However, unlike the NYI or the Canadiens, the Flyers do have guys that will take abuse and stay in front of the net consistently. That really got Eddie rattled in Round 2. But Khabi is a gamer and I expect him to be rock solid. However, don't underestimate Esche. He has been a rock and that save on Domi with a minute left in Game 6 MIGHT have saved the Flyers season as well as many other great saves in OT. I'll give the edge on goaltending to Khabi, but only by a little bit.

I think the Flyers forwards can have some success down low, but TB's speed will have more success against a Flyers defense that has looked very flatfooted at times and has looked all the willing to give up the blue line. Players like St. Louis and Lecavalier will have a field day if that is allowed to continue. The defenses on both sides are pretty much even.

I do like the Flyers' leadership and heart a bit better and I think they have the edge in veteran leadership, but Tampa looks very hungry and very good. I don't want to make predictions (jinx :eek: ), but this series really could go either way.

petec1978*

05-05-2004, 04:52 PM

Your argument is flawed

Au contraire, for you see the Lightning have 3 players at a point a game in these playoffs or better. Philly only has one. They also have 4 players with 4 or more goals. Philly has only 3... even despite the fact Philly has played two more playoff games than the Lightning.

As far as your assertion that the Lightning somehow have more "big names" than the Flyers, nothing could be more laughable. To say that guys like Amonte, Roenick, Zhamnov, Primeau, Leclair etc etc have LESS name recognition than guys like Brad Richards or Cory Stillman is laughable. I doubt you really believe that... but if you need to know which set of players are considered to have more gravitas league wide one way of judging is by comparing the salaries of both teams. Of course, Philly's payroll dwarfs Tampa's.

Face facts, most NHL fans wouldn't know Brad Richards if he came up and bit them on the rear even though he outscored every single player on your team during the regular season... so I don't back down from the contention the Lightning have more substance for one second.

-Pete Choquette

scoob4093

05-05-2004, 05:56 PM

Vegas makes the Bolts a significant favorite.

Series Price:
Bolts -160
Flyers +140

Explanation. To make $100 on the Bolts you must put up $160. The Flyers are the underdog and as such if you put up $100 you would make $140 if the Flyers prevail.

aapbolt

05-05-2004, 07:31 PM

Very good posts people. I think it will be a very close series but speed kills and that may be the deciding factor. All of our games, between the Flyers and the Bolts, have been physical and the Bolts have not backed down at all, so it will be interesting to see how that plays off. The flyers do have an edge with more veteren leaders but the Bolts make up for that with youthful energy so this may go 7. One factor that appears to be overlooked is that the Bolts are the best road team in the league and actually play better on the road, that may well prove to be a very important factor.

Dropkick Alex

05-05-2004, 08:14 PM

I didn't really read that well but I dont think anyone mentioned that Philly is a more Physcial team, which I think gives them an edge.

Dr Love

05-05-2004, 08:28 PM

Au contraire, for you see the Lightning have 3 players at a point a game in these playoffs or better. Philly only has one. They also have 4 players with 4 or more goals. Philly has only 3... even despite the fact Philly has played two more playoff games than the Lightning.

Another flawed argument. The Flyers scored enough goals to get to the ECF, as did the Lightning. That's what matters.

As far as your assertion that the Lightning somehow have more "big names" than the Flyers, nothing could be more laughable. To say that guys like Amonte, Roenick, Zhamnov, Primeau, Leclair etc etc have LESS name recognition than guys like Brad Richards or Cory Stillman is laughable. I doubt you really believe that... but if you need to know which set of players are considered to have more gravitas league wide one way of judging is by comparing the salaries of both teams. Of course, Philly's payroll dwarfs Tampa's.

I never mentioned LeClair, Primeau, Amonte, or Stillman as names. I would never mention LeClair as a "name," he hasn't done **** since 2000. I said "St. Louis, LeCavalier, Richards, Modin." And I didn't say they have more names, I said they do have names. Your payroll point is just what you said it is--one way of judging, and it's a bad way of judging, the average hockey fan knows that by now after watching Detroit, Dallas, Colorado, St. Louis, and Philly get knocked out of the playoffs by low payroll teams and the Rangers fail to make the playoffs; not to mention the payroll disparity in other sports.

Face facts, most NHL fans wouldn't know Brad Richards if he came up and bit them on the rear even though he outscored every single player on your team during the regular season... so I don't back down from the contention the Lightning have more substance for one second.

Again you are putting words into mouth. I never said that the Flyers have more substance, I simply said that they do have substance, just like I didn't say that the Lightning had more names, just that they had names.

petec1978*

05-05-2004, 08:54 PM

Another flawed argument.

And again, au contraire. The fact all you had to rebut my response with was "Well they scored enough to make it to the EC finals." is proof enough of that.

The question was not whether the Flyers or Lightning had the offensive credentials to make it to the EC Finals... the question was which team had the edge in offensive firepower, and for all the high priced marquee talent the Flyers have the facts bear out time and time again that distinction goes to the Tampa Bay Lightning.

-Pete Choquette

Dr Love

05-05-2004, 09:01 PM

And again, au contraire. The fact all you had to rebut my response with was "Well they scored enough to make it to the EC finals." is proof enough of that.

My reply was objective and accurate. They both scored enough, that is the criteria that must be met.

The question was not whether the Flyers or Lightning had the offensive credentials to make it to the EC Finals... the question was which team had the edge in offensive firepower, and for all the high priced marquee talent the Flyers have the facts bear out time and time again that distinction goes to the Tampa Bay Lightning.

-Pete Choquette

And I am not arguing that the Flyers have more firepower. They don't, but it's not by a wide margin either. What I am arguing is the method by which you arrived to your point, because it is flawed.

petec1978*

05-05-2004, 09:27 PM

My reply was objective and accurate.

Your reply was nothing more than a poor attempt to change the subject because you were losing the argument based on the empirical evidence at hand.

-Pete Choquette

Dr Love

05-05-2004, 09:59 PM

Your reply was nothing more than a poor attempt to change the subject because you were losing the argument based on the empirical evidence at hand.

-Pete Choquette

Uh, excuse me? Change the subject? I said the same thing I've been saying since my first post, that the Flyers have the offense to win this round. You on the other hand have argued points I've never made. And I fail to see how stating a fact--that both teams scored enough to move on to the 3rd round--is somehow losing an argument based on empirical evidence, because I stated empirical evidence. I'm not losing the argument because you have once again failed to respond to what I am arguing, even after I spelled it out for you. If you want to turn this into a pissing match, be my guest, I've got better things to do with my time.

Dropkick Alex

05-06-2004, 06:21 AM

Uh, excuse me? Change the subject? I said the same thing I've been saying since my first post, that the Flyers have the offense to win this round. You on the other hand have argued points I've never made. And I fail to see how stating a fact--that both teams scored enough to move on to the 3rd round--is somehow losing an argument based on empirical evidence, because I stated empirical evidence. I'm not losing the argument because you have once again failed to respond to what I am arguing, even after I spelled it out for you. If you want to turn this into a pissing match, be my guest, I've got better things to do with my time.

I've been on these boards for like 4 months, and I have learned TB think that the Bolts are Gods. They are good but there not amazing. Philly I think is a better team and I see them advancing.

Charlie_Girl

05-06-2004, 06:30 AM

This is going to be a great series! Speed vs Strength.

I just want to see Primeau vs St Louis...... David and Goliath!

Sotnos

05-06-2004, 06:37 AM

I've been on these boards for like 4 months, and I have learned TB think that the Bolts are Gods.
:amazed: Wow, four whole months!!

I don't recall anyone ever saying Tampa's players are "gods" . :shakehead

Flycoon*

05-06-2004, 07:07 AM

I didn't really read that well but I dont think anyone mentioned that Philly is a more Physcial team, which I think gives them an edge.

Kindly give us a few examples of how physical play has disrupted the Lightning. Seeems the Habs and Isles attempted it to no good end. Granted, Philly does it better, but being physical has not been the key for beating the Lightning this season.

Flycoon*

05-06-2004, 07:10 AM

This is going to be a great series! Speed vs Strength.

I just want to see Primeau vs St Louis...... David and Goliath!

Your expectations are in line. David V Goliath. Who won that mythical match up?

Charlie_Girl

05-06-2004, 07:20 AM

Your expectations are in line. David V Goliath. Who won that mythical match up?

Mythical is right.... it never happened!

But I did make a poor choice of analogy - perhaps I should have used the dog/flea comparison? ;)

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-06-2004, 08:18 AM

And again, au contraire. The fact all you had to rebut my response with was "Well they scored enough to make it to the EC finals." is proof enough of that.

The question was not whether the Flyers or Lightning had the offensive credentials to make it to the EC Finals... the question was which team had the edge in offensive firepower, and for all the high priced marquee talent the Flyers have the facts bear out time and time again that distinction goes to the Tampa Bay Lightning.

-Pete Choquette

You've faced the Isles and Habs we've faced the Devs and Leafs....nuff said. Really doesn't matter anyways, Khabbi's been able to see the puck ...up until this point.
You'd better hope that trend continues or your not gonna look very intelligent in a week. I like the Bolts but they fall short of Philly in size,depth and experience...which does matter, no matter what's happened thus far. Your blue line is going to have to contain our forwards crashing the crease...Devs nor Leafs could do it, but I do like your goaltending if we can't. :)

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-06-2004, 08:19 AM

Sotnos

05-06-2004, 08:42 AM

joeminus

05-06-2004, 09:05 AM

:amazed: Wow, four whole months!!

:lol

Anyway, I think everyone in Tampa realizes that Philly is going to be a much tougher opponent to dispatch than the Islanders or Canadiens were. And I haven't personally seen any Tampa fan claim otherwise. I think all some people are trying to point out is that Philly shouldn't be considered a lock simply because they're bigger, stronger and more physical. Believe it or not, the Lightning have played hockey against big, strong, physical teams before -- and they handled themselves just fine. Turns out there's a lot more to hockey than checking, hitting, creating screens and sweeping the porch.

That's not to say Philly doesn't present a challenge. Clearly they do. But this ain't no picnic for the Flyers, either. Both teams are facing their biggest test of the season. Should be fun to see how it plays out.

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 09:20 AM

Uh, excuse me? Change the subject?

Yes, change the subject by saying "Well they scored enough goals to make it this far!" because the head to head statistical comparisons weren't bearing out in your favor.

-Pete Choquette

Dr Love

05-06-2004, 09:50 AM

Yes, change the subject by saying "Well they scored enough goals to make it this far!" because the head to head statistical comparisons weren't bearing out in your favor.

-Pete Choquette

Have you even read what I have said? Because I've been saying that since my first post, so once again I fail to see how you think I am changing the subject when it's a subject I've been talking about all along. And you continue to argue points I haven't made or have conceded since square one. I have already acknowledged that player for player the goal scorers on Tampa outweight the Flyers. They were never going to bear out "in my favor" and I didn't try to make them bear out in my favor. But I have also stated--actually you brought it up first--that the Flyers scored only 16 goals less than Tampa, which accounts for the depth on the Flyers. And yet you continue to ignore the points I am arguing and instead argue whatever the hell you feel like arguing. Until you actually address what I've been saying, I'm through with you. I'll spell it out for you one more time just incase you didn't get it the last time: I am not arguing that the Flyers have more firepower or more "goal scorers." I am arguing the points which you made to arrive to your claim, because they are fallacies; and I am arguing that the Flyers percieved lack of fire power is just that--percieved and the gap between the two teams is not as wide as you make it out to be; and I am arguing that your claim of Tampa not having the names and the Flyers not having the substance is erroneous. You haven't addressed any of those points, instead you have put words into my mouth and argued things I never said to suit your desires.

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-06-2004, 09:52 AM

Maybe I should restate...Tampa has great game, but I don't think the difference in speed makes up for the difference in physical play. They've played mistake free, terrific transition hockey and they make you pay dearly if you make a mistake. I didn't think 5 games was indicitive of the series vs NY...I thought Khabbi was incredible though. Anyways, I wouldn't think if Tampa lost , that they'd be folding...I think if we get the best of the 2 teams Philly wins...absolutely no disrespect to the Bolts either...Richards is one of my favorite players. :)

Teezax

05-06-2004, 09:56 AM

Bottom line is this, you guys may have won 4 out of 4 in the regular season, but how many times did Esche play? You drew Hackett twice, Burke, and Little after Esche shut you guys down and eventually got injured.

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-06-2004, 10:00 AM

Anyone else find it funny that we're hearing the same crap now that we've been hearing since the playoffs started?

I don't know why people persist in thinking that the Bolts will fold like a cheap suit if you only hit them. It hasn't been true for two years, what would make it true now? Hearing how "Tampa hasn't been tested" just points out that no one watched their first two series, the Isles were a handful in most of those games and Khabi came up big time and time again. It's not like the Bolts got a free pass to the 3rd round, but some people seem to think they got to be the #1 seed through smoke and mirrors too, so I guess it's to be expected.

Sotnos...this isn't crap. You've faced good teams but not real good physical teams. I know they're terrific players but Lecavalier and St. Louis WILL have something to prove when they face a big team that plays a disciplined 2 way game. That's not to say they won't but as of now the jury is still out on how effective they'll be vs real big bangers. I know the Isles were tough but they can't punish the way a virtually healthy Flyers team can so the question in most peoples minds right now is legitimate. IMO :)

Mediator88

05-06-2004, 10:31 AM

Truth is, Mr. Choquette, that the Flyers have been better against their opponents offensively than the Lightning have against their opponents thus far in the playoffs.

The Flyers have scored 2.81 goals per game in the playoffs. The Lightning have scored 2.89 goals per game in the playoffs.

The Flyers' opponents gave up 368 total goals during the regular season - a combined average of 2.24 goals per game.

The Bolts' opponents gave up 402 total goals during the regular season - a combined average of 2.45 goals per game.

Thus, it would stand to reason that the Lightning should have outscored the Flyers in the playoffs thus far at a 0.21 goals per game pace. Unfortunately, they've only outscored the Flyers by a 0.08 goals per game pace.

So, if you look at it that way, the Flyers have played the tougher defensive teams thus far and have scored nearly as many goals per game as the Lightning have. By that reasoning, the Flyers have actually been BETTER offensively in the playoffs than the Lightning.

Statistics can be interpreted to make a case for either side.

Anyone with half a brain, however, can't look at this series and say that it's going to be easy one way or another. It'll hopefully be exactly what a conference final matchup should be - close, tight, and fantastic hockey.

Brian

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 10:57 AM

Truth is, Mr. Choquette, that the Flyers have been better against their opponents offensively than the Lightning have against their opponents thus far in the playoffs.

See you post this statement, and then you post this one right after it:

The Flyers have scored 2.81 goals per game in the playoffs. The Lightning have scored 2.89 goals per game in the playoffs.

Which clearly shows the Lightning have been better offensively than the Flyers. One would think, putting those stats side by side, you would realize you were making my case for me. Apparently not though.

And yes, I know you were talking about goal differential. Again, that's an irrelevant distraction from the fundamental point of my posts... the Lightning are better offensively. They are. No way around it. They just are. Sorry Flyers fans.

-Pete Choquette

exterminator-x

05-06-2004, 11:14 AM

The goal differential through two rounds in the playoffs is +16 in 9 games.

What is Philly's goal differential in their 11 games?

Beukeboom Fan

05-06-2004, 11:39 AM

And yes, I know you were talking about goal differential. Again, that's an irrelevant distraction from the fundamental point of my posts... the Lightning are better offensively. They are. No way around it. They just are. Sorry Flyers fans.

-Pete Choquette

Are you intentionally trying to be a jerk? Because you seem to go out of your way to come accross like an ass.

Couple of seperate points:
1) Regular season scoring does not equate to play-off performance.
2) The massive 16 goal differentail between the full year scoring doesn't factor into account that the Flyers (or TB) deadline additions, or injuries. I think that it's fair to say that Zhamnov's full year offensive production would be at least 16 goals, and the fact that the Flyers lost scoring line players to injuries during the regular season (Roenick, Primeau mainly) that the Bolts haven't had to contend with.

I'm making those points not to say that the Flyers have an offensive advantage, but rather that pointing to a 16 goal regular season scoring differential and proclaiming it to be a major advantage is just a load of dung.

I think that beyond the play of the goalies, the team that forces their opponent to play their game will win the series. If the games open up - it's definetely an advantage for TB. If it's a lot of cycling in the corners, and PP a major factor, advantage goes to PHI. Just my $.02.

Mediator88

05-06-2004, 11:40 AM

You did not read my statement. What I said was that the Flyers, relative to the defensive capabilities of the teams they played, did a better job than the Lightning did. I'm not talking about goal differential. I'm saying that the Flyers scored 0.57 more goals per game against their opponents than their opponents normally gave up. The Lightning scored 0.44 more goals per game against their opponents than their opponents normally gave up.

By that regard, the Flyers did better offensively against their opponents than the Lightning did against theirs, accounting for defensive skill of the opposing team.

I'll agree with you that the Flyers are not a better offensive team than the Lightning. However, they're not worse, either. They're about even - 0.08 goals per game difference to be exact - which, by the way, won't win anyone anything.

Brian

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 12:01 PM

You did not read my statement.

I did. It's irrelevant. I am not talking about goal differential. I am talking about raw offensive production.

I'll agree with you that the Flyers are not a better offensive team than the Lightning. However, they're not worse, either.

They're not even. One has to be better than the other, and the stats bear out it is Tampa Bay.

I'm making those points not to say that the Flyers have an offensive advantage, but rather that pointing to a 16 goal regular season scoring differential and proclaiming it to be a major advantage is just a load of dung.

And you might have a point were it not for the fact the Lightning hold a statistical advantage in postseason scoring as well.

Are you intentionally trying to be a jerk?

Oh I'm not trying :joker:

-Pete Choquette

Coburnfan05

05-06-2004, 12:14 PM

I've been on these boards for like 4 months, and I have learned TB think that the Bolts are Gods. They are good but there not amazing. Philly I think is a better team and I see them advancing.

To be honest I don't think TB got enough respect from anyone else.

Coburnfan05

05-06-2004, 12:27 PM

Tampa this Philly that it's starting to give me a headache.

Point is neither team has faced each other with both sides being healthy and having the rosters they have know.

TB has been better offensively but playing against a hitchcock system is alot different then playing the habs or lightning. Habby as been awesome so far in these playoffs but it's hard to stop most shots when there is alot of traffic in front, just ask Belfour and Brodeur.

Philly has been solid defensively the whole playoffs. Tampa's speed can definetly cause problems but over a long series I think the physical toll will take a step out of them.

This series will probably go 6 or 7 with tthe flyers coming out on top of course. ;)

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 01:06 PM

I've been on these boards for like 4 months, and I have learned TB think that the Bolts are Gods. They are good but there not amazing. Philly I think is a better team and I see them advancing.

Thank you bitter Panther fan for stopping by.

-Pete Choquette

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 01:10 PM

TB has been better offensively but playing against a hitchcock system is alot different then playing the habs or lightning.

I guess they were playing someone else's system when we swept them 4-0 in the regular season.

It won't be "the system" that the Lightning lose to, it'll be the players.

-Pete Choquette

JOHNBOY

05-06-2004, 01:20 PM

I guess they were playing someone else's system when we swept them 4-0 in the regular season.

It won't be "the system" that the Lightning lose to, it'll be the players.

-Pete Choquette

I find it funny that Lightning fans keep bringing up the 4 game sweep in the regular season.

That means absolutley nothing.
It is the Playoffs not the regular season.

Teams play different in the playoffs than they do in the regular season.

Beukeboom Fan

05-06-2004, 01:43 PM

And you might have a point were it not for the fact the Lightning hold a statistical advantage in postseason scoring as well.

-Pete Choquette

Can you accept the fact that playing the NYI & MON is different than playing NJ & TOR (who had the most proven goaltending coming into the P/O's)?

I'm not trying to disrespect the Bolts. I just don't see how comparing 2 series of play-off scoring to date has any bearing on how this series will go, especially when the Bolts played the 2 weakest teams in the EC (not taking anything from what they've accomplished, just statement of fact). Same thing with the regular season scoring not having much bearing when there were injuries and mid-season moves that are not reflected in the total stats.

In no particular order:

TB PHI
St. Louis Zhamnov
Lecavalier Roenick
Richards Primeau
Modin Amonte
Stillman Gagne
Andreychuk Handzus
Fedetenko Recchi
Afanasenkov Kapanen
Taylor Brashear

I'm not trying to do a player to player comparison, but I'd call that pretty close to even. TB might have an advantage with St. Louis being better than anybody else, but I think that the Flyers are more likely to get production from their 5-9 guys than the Bolts are.

I'd definetely give the Bolts the edge in goal, which will probably decide the series.

Hockeyfan02

05-06-2004, 02:06 PM

I dont understand why anyone at this point is bringing up regular season stats about who had more 70 point scorers, or who had the better GAA in the regular season. Those stats are as worthless as veterans are to Rick Dudley. It doesnt matter and I'm glad the players on the team are taking it as nothing as well. This is going to be a tough series for BOTH teams.

Philly is going to be a tough opponent because they are physical and are deep. They play a defense first system and if they do sitback it will cost them (see Game 6 against Toronto). The Lightning will have to hold their own physically in this series. I'm sure Primeau and Gagne will be paired up against Vinny and Marty. This is nothing new as they had to play against Peca/Blake in the first round which is as good if not better than the Flyers combo. The Chicago line will probably be going against the Dirt line and they will have to shut that line down, that line is more potent offensively than the others (not saying the others arent dangerous). The Richards line will have to be key in this series, which they have been in every series. I'm looking for Stillman to step up most of all from this line as he hasnt been producing as much in the playoffs. I think the Lightning played against a better defense in the Isles with the top 4 they have compared to the Isles but Philly doesnt overplay their top 4 like the Isles did. The Flyers can also say they've played against better defenses as well, but the Bolts wont have a turnover machine like Bryan Mccabe was either ;). Sarich and Pratt will have to get their noses dirty and clear some guys out of the crease. Bolye and Lukowich could get caught out there against some of the bigger Flyers forwards which could be disasterous. Goalies are the x-factor in this series like always and both are playing awesome. In terms of "names" both have faced better goalies IMO (I think Theodore is a better goalie than Esche, dont know about Dipietro), but none of the "name" goalies were playing as well as these two have. Traffic in front will like always be the key to beat these two. Andy, Modin, and the others will have to be willing to pay the price more in this series than in the others. Hitchcock is the best coach in the playoffs right now based on previous success and will be the most experience the Bolts will play against. Hitchcock knows what to do in order to make his teams win in the playoffs and Torts will have to match him. This series could be a great one and I'm looking forward to it. I'm picking Lightning in 7, I'm not overly confident in the pick but its what my gut is telling me. Go Bolts.

Oceanic39*

05-06-2004, 02:15 PM

woah, woah, woah... in the words of Jim Mora... PLAYOFFS?!?!?!

Is this really the playoffs?

I had no idea. I'd never heard the "regular season doesn't equate to playoffs" arguement... I mean, besides posts 4, 7, 8, 11, 14, 19, 22, 30 and 31 of this thread(note - hyperbole used to make a point, I don't know if post 4 was saying it - but it's been mentioned too much in this thread).

For the non-Tampa fans on here, all we heard about before the Isles series was how they were so glad they got the TB match-up, because they went 3-1 vs. Tampa in the regular season. Isn't it just understood the two aren't the same? I mean, I know TB fans get a bad rap as expansion fans, but we're really not that stupid.

What did the Isles 3-1 record in the RS mean vs. TB in the first round? Before you say, "nothing," think twice. Obviously something the Isles did against the Bolts worked throughout the regular season, and quite honestly, the same thing worked in games 1-3. No one's dumb enough not to know sometimes players are on top of their game, and sometimes they're not.

Montreal fans pointed to their two wins vs. Tampa in the RS as a reason for hope in the playoffs. This, out of one side of their face, then on the other we heard about how TB's regular season point total meant nothing because it was now the playoffs.

All that to say, WE KNOW about the RS vs. PO. We heard about it on the other end in rounds 1 and 2. So stop throwing that out like we've never heard of the concept. However, when looking at a match-up, what's the first thing you look at? How did these teams do against each other in the RS? Could that be why ESPN, minutes after Toronto lost Game 6, had a graphic highlighting the head-to-head match-up in the RS between PHI and TB? Are *they* fools for doing that? (correct answer - they are fools, but not necessarily for doing that).

Now, after all that's said...

I think TB is an underdog in this series because of individual match-ups and style differential... but it's freakin' close.

Should be a great series.

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 02:29 PM

Can you accept the fact that playing the NYI & MON is different than playing NJ & TOR

Can YOU accept that the Lightning and their fans shouldn't have to apologize for finishing 1st in the East and subsequently drawing the Isles and Habs? To the victors go the spoils.

I find it funny that Lightning fans keep bringing up the 4 game sweep in the regular season.

I find it funny that Flyers fans say that the Lightning have NEVER played against Hitchcock's big bad spooky "system" when in reality they faced it 4 times this season and were 4-0. My suggestion: next time don't make false statements like that.

-Pete Choquette

Oceanic39*

05-06-2004, 02:57 PM

I find it funny that Lightning fans keep bringing up the 4 game sweep in the regular season.

How is it funny?

Regular season and Playoff sweeps are so rare, of course they're going to be mentioned.

Are you telling me that if Philly were to have swept TB in the regular season we wouldn't be hearing a peep about that right now?

Is it THAT unheard of, when we're told we're the lesser of two given teams, that we mention we didn't lose to that team in the regular season (again, realizing the whole RS/PO thing).

Are you also telling me that if we were facing Ottawa right now (and we may have had Lalime not fallen asleep in Game 7) that no Sens fans would be mentioning their win-loss dominance over TB in the regular season?

Beukeboom Fan

05-06-2004, 03:20 PM

Sotnos

05-06-2004, 03:20 PM

Those stats are as worthless as veterans are to Rick Dudley.
:lol:
Nice one, and very good analysis '02. As usual, you and O39 said it all and spared me the trouble. :D

More discussion and less pissing contest (over semantics or statistics) out of everyone else on both sides would be nice. :shakehead

Like I said, we've been hearing for three rounds now that now the "real" challenge is finally upon them, and the Bolts won't be up for it. We'll see on Saturday. This series is just WAY too close to call IMO.

petec1978*

05-06-2004, 03:24 PM

No one has asked Tampa fans to apologize for anything

Then why constantly kvetch about the Lightning previous two rounds' opponents? We're supposed to feel SORRY that we finished 1st in the East and thus got to face the 7 and 8 seeds? No, 'fraid not Flyer fan, I won't be apologizing for that one bit.

Because the Lightning were able to score X amount of goals against NY and Montreal doesn't mean they would have had the same level of success against NJ and Toronto.

Conversely there's nothing to say the Lightning wouldn't have scored MORE goals against those teams. The Lightning swept the Devils out convincingly in the regular season 4-0 just like they did the Flyers and the last time the Lightning and Leafs met up the Lightning pinned 7 goals on them in their own barn.

We can only face and throttle who is placed before us.

And my suggestion would be, leave the regular season out of it.

Is Hitchcock's system in any way dramatically different in the playoffs? Yes or no?

No.

Then don't sit here and tell me about how scared we should be of Hitchcock's "system".

-Pete Choquette

Oceanic39*

05-06-2004, 03:40 PM

Certain TB posters seem to think that the Bolts have a major offensive advantage because they scored 16 more goals in the regular season, or have outscored the Flyers in the play-off's.

Just my $.02, but the TB posters don't need to have an inferiority complex about the Bolts. It seems like every time someone says something positive about the Flyers, a TB poster takes that as a personal attack on the Bolts.

Fair enough, but to contest a couple of points...

I don't believe the words "major offensive advantage" has been used or even suggested. It has been correctly pointed out that the notion that Philly has superior offensive skill is false. Without looking back to confirm, I believe that was the first counter-point used by Pete. The +16 isn't an incredibly strong arguement, but it's certainly one that bears mentioning if only by considering the converse: What if TB had squeaked through two series with a goal differential of 5 or less, and/or won only regular season game by an average of 1-2 goals? The point would be made in Philly's favor that TB had a hard time with them and TB's opponents.

We did what we were supposed to do - and then some.

In regard to your 2 cents, it's not an inferiority complex... it's overly-defensive if anything. I've scoured these boards a-plenty and TB fans aren't initiating this "we're better than you" attitude. It's almost always in response to a comment saying TB isn't battle tested, had a weak division, weak PO opponents, aren't playing as well as Team A, and other incorrect assumptions.

I believe it is inaccurate to say that TB fans are taking pro-flyers talk as personal attacks. That's silly to assume that, IMO, as much as it is silly for TB fans to do that. When a Philly fan says they have superiority in category A, B or C... THAT's going to be contested. Outside of playoff experience and size up front, there's not a category that can be voted superior to TB right now.

Sotnos

05-06-2004, 04:27 PM

FlyHigh

05-06-2004, 05:07 PM

Ok, Flyers fan here and I will try to give some more analysis. First of all. THE BOLTS DO HAVE A BETTER OFFENSE THAN THE FLYERS!!!!! OK!!!!?!?!?!?! I'll try to break down each game a tad bit.

Lightning won first game 5-4, great win for them, the problem is that Philly still had Hackjob in goal which isn't true now. The Flyers also didn't have Zhamnov at the time.

Game 2 was the Lightning's best with a 6-1 win as Esche looked bad, but it's worth noting that Primeau was out for that one.

Lightning won game 3 2-1, but, they did not score until esche left the game with an injury and the flyers had to put in a minor leaguer.

finally, lightning won game 4 5-2, but Burke was starting and the flyers didn't have zhamnov primeau or jr.

i still love the lightning as a team and they have an awfully great chance, but keep these things in mind.

Gags1288

05-06-2004, 06:43 PM

Can YOU accept that the Lightning and their fans shouldn't have to apologize for finishing 1st in the East and subsequently drawing the Isles and Habs? To the victors go the spoils.

I find it funny that Flyers fans say that the Lightning have NEVER played against Hitchcock's big bad spooky "system" when in reality they faced it 4 times this season and were 4-0. My suggestion: next time don't make false statements like that.

-Pete Choquette
There isn't one word in any post that criticizes tampa for finishing first. The fact is that the New Jersey Devils were the best defensive team in the history of the NHL. Yes, the history of the NHL. They gave up the fewest goals of all time, so maybe that is an explanation for why the flyers have scored less goals this postseason. In addition, the flyers added a major offensive weapon at the trading deadline, the Bolts did not. Alex Zhamnov has been a PPG player since he's arrived and that would have added to the offense considerably. In addition, guys like Primeau and Roenick both missed considerable time during the regular season thus making the numbers lower than they would have been with those guys in the lineup. Guys like Lecavalier and St. Louis didn't miss considerable time if any time at all. Now are you really arguing that if you added Keith Primeau, Jeremy Roenick, and Alex Zhamnov to a team for 40 games each, they wouldn't add .08 goals to a teams average? You need to look beyond stats because that's not what it's all about.

In my opinion, the offenses are very similar, the flyers play a considerably better team defense and if Esche can come close to equaling Khabibulin, I like the flyers chances. I think it'll be interesting to see how Lecavalier reacts the first time he takes a huge hit from Keith Primeau or how St. Louis reacts the first time he takes a big hit from Jeremy Roenick. Not to say that they'll act in a negative manor, but it'll be interesting. Anyway, good luck to the bolts (no, i don't mean that) and I hope the series is as good as the last two the flyers have played.

Gags1288

05-06-2004, 06:47 PM

In regard to your 2 cents, it's not an inferiority complex... it's overly-defensive if anything. I've scoured these boards a-plenty and TB fans aren't initiating this "we're better than you" attitude. It's almost always in response to a comment saying TB isn't battle tested, had a weak division, weak PO opponents, aren't playing as well as Team A, and other incorrect assumptions.

Is Tampa Battle tested?No
Did they have a weak division?Yes
Have there playoff opponents been weaker than others?Yes

These things don't mean that Tampa's not good, nor do they mean that they don't deserve to be here. However, these things are all true and maybe you should realize that. They are just question marks at this points that could turn into positives or negatives, we'll just have to wait and see.

Hoek

05-06-2004, 07:19 PM

I think it'll be interesting to see how Lecavalier reacts the first time he takes a huge hit from Keith Primeau or how St. Louis reacts the first time he takes a big hit from Jeremy Roenick.

Umm they'll probably react the same way they reacted after taking a big hit from Michael Peca, Eric Cairns, Andrei Markov, Craig Rivet, etc. By scoring a game winning goal! ;)

If you think our previous opponents were simply *****footing around our star players and not getting in good licks on them you're sorely mistaken. Hits don't win games. Goals do. Prime example was the Flyers' last game in fact. Kapanen gets DESTROYED. Philly wins anyway.

Sotnos

05-06-2004, 07:28 PM

Is Tampa Battle tested?No
Did they have a weak division?Yes
Have there playoff opponents been weaker than others?Yes
I don't quite get the first one. Define "battle tested"

The second one is irrelevant.

The third one is a product of them having the best regular season record in the East, it was EARNED. It's a positive, not a negative.

It's all just said to diminish what Tampa has done this season, no matter how you slice it.

TB_FANATIC

05-06-2004, 07:55 PM

I just did a little research,

Average Lightning height including St.Louis, and Perrin

73.68 inches

Average Philidelphia height

73.59 inches

:dunno:

Haven't done weight yet

Gags1288

05-06-2004, 08:09 PM

I don't quite get the first one. Define "battle tested"

The second one is irrelevant.

The third one is a product of them having the best regular season record in the East, it was EARNED. It's a positive, not a negative.

It's all just said to diminish what Tampa has done this season, no matter how you slice it.
Battle tested falls in line with experience. Have they come out on the winning or losing end of a tough 7 game series against a high quality opponent. The answer to this is no and therefore they'll be in a position where they have never been. The question is, how will they respond.

Yes they did earn their opponents, however, it's quite a step up from the Habs and the Islanders to the Flyers and again, we'll find out how Tampa will deal with that and if they're up for the challenge (and there's on reason to think that they aren't).

IT's not said to diminish what's been done, it's said to question what will happen.

Gags1288

05-06-2004, 08:11 PM

I just did a little research,

Average Lightning height including St.Louis, and Perrin

73.68 inches

Average Philidelphia height

73.59 inches

:dunno:

Haven't done weight yet
This is not relevent. It's funny because Hitchcock actually said that the game plan is not to focus on the physical aspect of the game, but rather to take the action to Tampa instead of countering what Tampa does.

Also, there are outliers who distort the data one way or another. The star players for Tampa are generally small or could be called "soft" save Modin. Richards, St. Louis, and Lecavalier have all been given the soft label at one point in time, and i'm not saying that that label is justified.

Flycoon*

05-06-2004, 08:37 PM

Ummmm...Habs and Isles? Are you ever in for an eye opener :shakehead

Are you saying that NOT ONE TEAM has attempted to play the Lightning physically this year? Fact is, those who have gone that route haven't been very successful. Look at the regular season series between the Flyers and Lightning. I suppose the Flyers played a finesse game then? Naahhh.

Hockeyfan02

05-06-2004, 08:44 PM

Battle tested falls in line with experience. Have they come out on the winning or losing end of a tough 7 game series against a high quality opponent. The answer to this is no and therefore they'll be in a position where they have never been. The question is, how will they respond.

Yes they did earn their opponents, however, it's quite a step up from the Habs and the Islanders to the Flyers and again, we'll find out how Tampa will deal with that and if they're up for the challenge (and there's on reason to think that they aren't).

Not being "battle tested" didnt stop Calgary going on the road and winning game 7 especially after a goal with 5 seconds left to send it to OT would deflate any team who thought it was winning. Vancouver was supposedly "battle tested" after playing in 2 game 7s the previous year and Calgary hadnt been in the playoffs for 7 years. I see what point you are trying to make though and it is a valid one but in cases like the Calgary/Vancouver series it doesnt carry much weight.

In the case of shutdown guys I'd say that guys like Peca, Blake, Scatchard, and the Isles D of Aucoin, Niinimaa, Jonsson, and Hamrlik are as good as Primeau, Roenick, Gagne, and Philly's top 4. I dont think that taking a hit from Primeau or Roenick is THAT much more devastating as taking a hit from a guy like Peca or Scatchard as your making it out to be. The Lightning havent faced anyone as physcial or deep as the Flyers but the Flyers havent faced anyone as fast or aggressive as the Lightning. Like I said earlier though you do make valid arguments and arent being a complete homer like others. Welcome to the board and good luck in the series.

Flycoon*

05-06-2004, 08:50 PM

Richards, St. Louis, and Lecavalier have all been given the soft label at one point in time, and i'm not saying that that label is justified.

Absolute crap-ola. Richards has been accused of being Charmin-y soft on many occasions, me being one of those. He was not this season. Anyone who has ever watched Lecavalier or St Louis who has an inkling of a clue would not call either soft.

Oceanic39*

05-06-2004, 09:09 PM

When has Marty St. Louis ever been labelled soft? I mean, besides by bitter Hab fans who also attached the equally laughable cherry picker label to him.

Richards... Flycoon covered that.

Lecavalier? Gets disinterested at times, but is at his best when bodies begin flying. I hope you hit him... it gets him into the game.

Re: Battle tested...

1) I have to agree with your statement more than disagree, but it's not like TB's been there so many years and always fail to come out on top of a hard series (cough - Ottawa). A severe underdog last year, they played the Devil's tough in a 5 game series. Clearly their inexperience and just happy to be there approach shone through... as did the fact that NJ was a superior team. However, I would have to point to the WSH series as one in which they were "battle-tested." Down 2-0 going into a building in which they hadn't won in yearS and scratching out a Game 3 OT win (insert Caps fan complaint about refs here) and proceeded to win 4 straight was pretty damn gritty. WSH is not a high-quality team, I'm guessing, though, but the feat is one that is rare.

2) Tortorella said in USA Today today that TB is the underdogs because they have not been as "battle tested" as Philly.

Is Philly a tougher team than MTL and NYI? Absolutely, but that's the nature of the playoffs. I'd hardly call MTL and NYI pushovers, though, despite the 8-1 record against them. Can they match the Devil's and Leafs? Probably not, but as we told Hab fans saying "you ain't seen nothin' yet," we're not going to apologize for "having" to play the low seeds.

Sotnos

05-06-2004, 11:07 PM

When has Marty St. Louis ever been labelled soft? I mean, besides by bitter Hab fans who also attached the equally laughable cherry picker label to him.
You forgot "diver" :lol

Saying Lecavalier is "soft" is a common misconception, not sure why it persists.

I'd hardly call MTL and NYI pushovers
Me either, but that seems to be what's being suggested.

we're not going to apologize for "having" to play the low seeds.
Nor should we. That is the whole point of working to get that top seed, it presumably makes the first round (and 2nd round if there's a 1st round upset of another team) "easier". It's still not a cakewalk, and it still counts for something.

Hawkeye

05-07-2004, 12:58 AM

Have they come out on the winning or losing end of a tough 7 game series against a high quality opponent. The answer to this is no and therefore they'll be in a position where they have never been.

They haven't needed/gone to 7 games yet, but they did come back from being down 0-2 last year against the Caps and won 4 straight, with 3 of those wins in Washington. Which they hadn't won there since who knows when.

And they went into both New York (Isles) and took both up there this year and did the same in Montreal. BTW, the Bolts are 4-0 on the road in this year's playoffs. :bow:

Tuggy

05-07-2004, 01:20 AM

I think TB is an underdog in this series because of individual match-ups and style differential... but it's freakin' close.

Tampa fans say that noone gives them any respect and then you go and make a statement like that :dunno: I don't get it, you list off all these things about your great regular season and then you say you are the underdog?

Tampa is not the underdog at all. They have only lost one game in the playoffs so far and were the top team going into the playoffs.

You can't have it both ways.

TB_FANATIC

05-07-2004, 01:27 AM

Tuggy

05-07-2004, 01:31 AM

Tampa Bay still doesn't get any respect. They won't till they play either Calgary or San Jose; who both are as equally a surprise to be where they are at as the Lightning. No one expected Tampa Bay to be where they are at, so the perception is still that Philidelphia is the favorite in spite of seeding or talent. Having to continually kill team myths after each round is getting tiresome. Can't wait for Saterday so the team can do it for me.

I suppose the "general" hockey fans just assume that the Detroit's/New Jersey's will be in the finals. But I mean Tampa and San Jose were 2 of the top teams in the league, is it really that big of a surprise that they are in the conference finals?

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 06:05 AM

:amazed: Wow, four whole months!!

I don't recall anyone ever saying Tampa's players are "gods" . :shakehead

I didnt say you call them that, I said you treat them as "Gods", read. You guys do overate your players.

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 06:07 AM

Kindly give us a few examples of how physical play has disrupted the Lightning. Seeems the Habs and Isles attempted it to no good end. Granted, Philly does it better, but being physical has not been the key for beating the Lightning this season.

Just because I'm a Panthers fan doesnt mean Im going to start a fight lets just get that out of the way, Im here to discuss hockey and thats it, lets get that out there. And to your question, you answered it right in your response. I think Philly is alot better physically then the Habs and Isles, so much better that I think Philly will win the series.

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 06:11 AM

The goal differential through two rounds in the playoffs is +16 in 9 games.

What is Philly's goal differential in their 11 games?

But the thing is Philly has played tougher teams than the Bolts have. I mean defending champs(though not the same as last year), they also had to face a revamped Leafs team. You had to face the Habs and Isles. Wow Not taking anything away from those teams but I mean you have to like Philly's chances.

Sotnos

05-07-2004, 07:07 AM

I didnt say you call them that, I said you treat them as "Gods", read.
Uh that's not what you said. Regardless, don't tell me what to do, my friend.

You guys do overate your players.
Pot...kettle...black :lol

petec1978*

05-07-2004, 07:27 AM

Battle tested falls in line with experience.

And the only "experience" the Flyers have had since their last cup in the mid-70's is perpetually choking when the moment of truth comes.

-Pete Choquette

aapbolt

05-07-2004, 07:33 AM

Ok, Let me make some points here: First though we do not overrate our players as any regular contributor to this board should know, unlike those who think that pokemon is a "god". Ok here we go:
1. The bolts have a better record agains the atlantic division, supposedly a more physical division than they do against the southeast division.
2. The bolts 6-2, 209 pounds, Flyers 6-2, 207 pounds- looks fairly equal to me. however, the Flyers do play more physical and we play more finesse and speed.
3. NYI had the best home record of any team in the playoffs, with a goalie that was on fire at the end of the season, yet we took two from them at home. The bolts have on of the best road records of any team in the playoffs.
4. Flyers annually fold about this time of year- see the last few years and check the historical record.
5. Bolts have one of the youngest teams in the playoffs, Flyers are much older and while Vets are good in a short series- in a 7 game series youth will be served- see the redwings.
6. We played through the pressure of playing in Montreal and against a goalie that was a past MVP and Vezina winner who had helped his team beat the Bruins.
7. The pressure is really on the Flyers because most people think they are better than the Bolts, even though the Bolts are being picked to win in some locations. The Flyers have the experience and the Bolts are not battle tested in a tough physical series- those are the arguments being used to say that the Bolts will lose.
Only time will tell but look for the Bolts to play a great series and, hopefully, win thus getting us some of the respect that is so lacking for our team.
This will be a tough series, but if the Flyers play the same way they did in the two loses to Toronto, where they looked like they were skating through quick sand the Flyers will have a very tough time of hanging with the Bolts. Plus if the flyers get tired in the 3rd period- look out they willnot be able to stay with us. If this is a very physical series then the Flyers will do well, otherwise we have to play through the checks and the traps in order to win.

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 07:40 AM

I didnt say you call them that, I said you treat them as "Gods", read. You guys do overate your players.

Someday, the Lightning will have players the quality of Weiss and Huselius. Then it won't be possible to over rate them, they will, in fact, be hockey gods.

Truthfully, your take is simply retarded.

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 07:44 AM

Just because I'm a Panthers fan doesnt mean Im going to start a fight lets just get that out of the way, Im here to discuss hockey and thats it, lets get that out there. And to your question, you answered it right in your response. I think Philly is alot better physically then the Habs and Isles, so much better that I think Philly will win the series.

You didn't answer the question. Cite examples of games, play off or regular season, where physical play negated what the Lightning do best. Ottawa dominated the Lightning this season so I guess that would be your answer. Right?

Oceanic39*

05-07-2004, 08:15 AM

Tampa fans say that noone gives them any respect and then you go and make a statement like that :dunno: I don't get it, you list off all these things about your great regular season and then you say you are the underdog?

Tampa is not the underdog at all. They have only lost one game in the playoffs so far and were the top team going into the playoffs.

You can't have it both ways.

So.... you can't call a team an underdog and still call them good?

That's where the "dunno" thing comes in.

I think TB is the underdog. How is that disrespectful? Are only favorites worthy of respect? Absolutely not. From what I've seen, as was mentioned here, many are calling TB a good team, but are picking Philly for a variety of reasons, first and foremost being their playoff experience and quite frankly, familiarity. The latter drives the ship for most in picking Philly. Therefore, when someone picks Philly, it's fine. However, when they pick Philly, but then make statements like TB isn't as good as they seem, etc., THAT is the lack of respect that's given. That is what is being argued against.

And as an aside... I'm surprised we're not hearing from more Hab fans in reply to TB not playing anyone of significance.

Re: TB fans overrating their own...

Three ways to look at this:

1) Stay off the JV boards... it's your own fault for going there.
2) Every team's fanbase overrates their own.
3) Back to familiarity. We were accused of overrating Lecavalier and look what he did vs. Montreal and look at the praise he's getting now. We were accused of overrating St. Louis going into last year's playoffs, and look what he's done since. We were accused of overrating Brad Richards, and now TB's best kept secret is out. If I had a dollar for every Havlat vs. Richards thread destroying Richards, I could afford an EC Finals ticket for me and all my Bolt brethren on this board. Same goes for Modin and Kubina. We've known these players were good all along. Most of us saw glimpses of the 2004 Marty St. Louis back before the broken leg in Pittsburgh. When the spotlight suddenly shines on TB, it's like, "hey! they've got some good players down there! I knew they had 6 players with 20 or more goals and 4 with 60+ points, but I didn't know they were THAT good ... and could play both ways." We've known this stuff all along, you just assumed we were overrating them.

It's not like we're saying Weiss is better than Lecavalier.

mcphee

05-07-2004, 08:18 AM

One of the many reasons to discount the season record is that the flyers have turned over their roster so much this year. i don't know that I've ever seen a GM address injuries thru trades as much as Clarke has this year. I think this was mentionned about 80 posts ago, but Markov,Zhamnov,Malakhov,Radio[no idea sp] are quality additions. Clarke rolled the dice this year, probably with next year's situation in mind. IMO, the series will come down to whether the Flyer defense can limit turnovers against a puck pressure team, and whether TB can limit scoring chances and not depend to heavily on their goalie. I can see a long series, I've changed my mind about 6 times as to who has the advantage.

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 09:17 AM

You didn't answer the question. Cite examples of games, play off or regular season, where physical play negated what the Lightning do best. Ottawa dominated the Lightning this season so I guess that would be your answer. Right?

You dont need to be a genuis to know that Philly is a tough team. My answer was that Philly is a really tought team physically. I think there going to stop the run-n-gun style of the Bolts. Defense wins championships and I think that Philly's D can control the Bolts, thus making them advance.

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 09:20 AM

Someday, the Lightning will have players the quality of Weiss and Huselius. Then it won't be possible to over rate them, they will, in fact, be hockey gods.

Truthfully, your take is simply retarded.

Your take here is retarted. Weiss has alot of potential. Huselius is an air head who needs to be traded. I can admit where my teams flaws are, unlike you guys.

AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar

05-07-2004, 10:11 AM

unlike you guys.

Obviously you cant discuss hockey with Tampa Bay Fans without trying to fight. Your comment was perfectly fine until you add that little shot in there that you know will provoke a response from one of them. When your on another teams board you gotta expect they will talk bad about a rival team but your on thier board so just ignore it. They talk crap about the Caps all the time and I never argue with them over it.

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 11:34 AM

You dont need to be a genuis to know that Philly is a tough team. My answer was that Philly is a really tought team physically. I think there going to stop the run-n-gun style of the Bolts. Defense wins championships and I think that Philly's D can control the Bolts, thus making them advance.

Last time. Give me an example of a game played during the season or playoffs where physical play by the opponent took the Lightning out of their usual game.

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 11:36 AM

retarted. alot

Case closed.

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-07-2004, 11:38 AM

Are you saying that NOT ONE TEAM has attempted to play the Lightning physically this year? Fact is, those who have gone that route haven't been very successful. Look at the regular season series between the Flyers and Lightning. I suppose the Flyers played a finesse game then? Naahhh.

No...read post. 4 regular season games vs Philly isn't gonna be like the playoffs. You have to face us night after night with our #1 goalie and our top 4 lines clicking. If Tampa fans can't see the differences b/w Toronto, Jersey, Islanders and Habs then maybe they can just put their names on the Cup...I've been watching and playing 24 years now so I'll wait and watch the series. :shakehead Your team has questions to answer folks...whether you like it or not and there's a big difference between facing us 4 times over 82 games and facing us possibly 7 times in 2 weeks. We'll excuse you though, we're not used to being this deep...but you're not used to being here period. Have fun folks, hopefully, it'll be a great series.

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 01:59 PM

No...read post. 4 regular season games vs Philly isn't gonna be like the playoffs. You have to face us night after night with our #1 goalie and our top 4 lines clicking. If Tampa fans can't see the differences b/w Toronto, Jersey, Islanders and Habs then maybe they can just put their names on the Cup...I've been watching and playing 24 years now so I'll wait and watch the series. :shakehead Your team has questions to answer folks...whether you like it or not and there's a big difference between facing us 4 times over 82 games and facing us possibly 7 times in 2 weeks. We'll excuse you though, we're not used to being this deep...but you're not used to being here period. Have fun folks, hopefully, it'll be a great series.

So I guess that you and the Panthers fan agree that a physical game will throw the Lightning off their game. Because no team, through 82 regular season games and 9 playoff games, has attempted to do this.

Ottawa had the recipe for beating the Lightning consistently. Speed and skill.

Hockeyfan02

05-07-2004, 02:14 PM

If Tampa fans can't see the differences b/w Toronto, Jersey, Islanders and Habs then maybe they can just put their names on the Cup...I've been watching and playing 24 years now so I'll wait and watch the series. :shakehead Your team has questions to answer folks...whether you like it or not and there's a big difference between facing us 4 times over 82 games and facing us possibly 7 times in 2 weeks. We'll excuse you though, we're not used to being this deep...but you're not used to being here period. Have fun folks, hopefully, it'll be a great series.

There is a difference between those teams and the teams the Flyers have faced. But like the regular season it really means nothing right now. Lightning dont get anything for winning the regular season and the Flyers dont get anything for playing tougher opponents. They are both useless bits of information which wont mean jack when the puck drops Saturday. Yes we'll wait for this series to start as well. Some Flyer fans on here are so touchy and when someone predicts a Lightning win its like everybody in the world is penciling in a Lightning cup. No one should think this series is going to be a cakewalk for either team. If they do, they are sorely mistaken.

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-07-2004, 03:24 PM

There is a difference between those teams and the teams the Flyers have faced. But like the regular season it really means nothing right now. Lightning dont get anything for winning the regular season and the Flyers dont get anything for playing tougher opponents. They are both useless bits of information which wont mean jack when the puck drops Saturday. Yes we'll wait for this series to start as well. Some Flyer fans on here are so touchy and when someone predicts a Lightning win its like everybody in the world is penciling in a Lightning cup. No one should think this series is going to be a cakewalk for either team. If they do, they are sorely mistaken.

I agree to a point and no one should be touchy about somebody picking the Bolts to win. I was merely trying to give my view of what could happen. Really, you"re right...picking this series is a wash and it really "should" come down to the team that gives the best effort. I only use the size theory because that's what I feel will be the difference. I don't think any team can rival the Flyers down low game. Anyways I hope no one took offense to my posts, my idea wasn't to rile...I think all Flyers fans realise that this series is FAR from a cakewalk but most will remain confident. There definately is no denying the Lightning could go all the way.

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-07-2004, 03:31 PM

So I guess that you and the Panthers fan agree that a physical game will throw the Lightning off their game. Because no team, through 82 regular season games and 9 playoff games, has attempted to do this.

Ottawa had the recipe for beating the Lightning consistently. Speed and skill.

Not for sure...but we really can't go out and try to wheel with Tampa, so we'll have to play the Physical game. I think seeing a team as big as Philly in a best of 7 is far different from the regular season. Unfortunately for Ottawa...Toronto's physical game was the recipe for their skill. Is it not possible the same could hold true for the Flyers/Lightning? :dunno:

TB_FANATIC

05-07-2004, 04:46 PM

Unfortunately for Ottawa...Toronto's physical game was the recipe for their skill.

...you mean to tell me Lalime and all of those softies had nothing to do with it? Maybe your forgetting Khabibulin has god like numbers coming into this series. :dunno:

Bolts have a knack for making the opposition miss on their checks, which will wear the Flyers down. Its like foreplay, woeing the opposition into making turnovers and feinting moves that would make even Ben Steins knees buckle. Its nothing to thumb your nose at, very serious stuff messing with Lightning. Try not to blink

mcphee

05-07-2004, 05:09 PM

Not for sure...but we really can't go out and try to wheel with Tampa, so we'll have to play the Physical game. I think seeing a team as big as Philly in a best of 7 is far different from the regular season. Unfortunately for Ottawa...Toronto's physical game was the recipe for their skill. Is it not possible the same could hold true for the Flyers/Lightning? :dunno: I think Ottawa stood up quite well to Toronto's physical game. That series came down to one goalie being great and the other not. I think Philly's skill level is being underrated in this discussion. The Flyers have a group that have scored a lot of goals in their careers and take a back seat to no one.

petec1978*

05-07-2004, 05:21 PM

It's not like we're saying Weiss is better than Lecavalier.

:joker: :joker: :joker:

I'll take "Asinine statements PantherNation will never live down for $200, Alex."

-Pete Choquette

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 05:58 PM

Not for sure...but we really can't go out and try to wheel with Tampa, so we'll have to play the Physical game. I think seeing a team as big as Philly in a best of 7 is far different from the regular season. Unfortunately for Ottawa...Toronto's physical game was the recipe for their skill. Is it not possible the same could hold true for the Flyers/Lightning? :dunno:

The recipe for Ottawa's demise was facing Ed Belfour at his zenith and having guys in their own net playing on a level that would be unacceptable in the ECHL. Lalime and his back up blew steaming chunks.

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-07-2004, 06:08 PM

The recipe for Ottawa's demise was facing Ed Belfour at his zenith and having guys in their own net playing on a level that would be unacceptable in the ECHL. Lalime and his back up blew steaming chunks.

Every year?? Cmon fellas.....do you honestly think philly's forecheck and big forwards aren't going to pose a problem that you haven't really seen in rounds 1 and 2?

Bob Clarke Fan Club

05-07-2004, 06:15 PM

...you mean to tell me Lalime and all of those softies had nothing to do with it? Maybe your forgetting Khabibulin has god like numbers coming into this series. :dunno:

Bolts have a knack for making the opposition miss on their checks, which will wear the Flyers down. Its like foreplay, woeing the opposition into making turnovers and feinting moves that would make even Ben Steins knees buckle. Its nothing to thumb your nose at, very serious stuff messing with Lightning. Try not to blink

Did you say GODLIKE?? Again...I think Nick is great but I'll hold judgement till I see how he holds the fort with Primeau, Handzus or Roenick skating right up his porch. You're a fast team but you'd think you were a Canadians dynasty the way you describe them.... after beating 2 of the worst playoff teams in the East. Whether you folks like it or not...your team won't be measured on how they dealt with the Isles or Habs...it'll be how you do vs the Flyers...did I mention we're also sick with speed?

Flycoon*

05-07-2004, 07:10 PM

Did you say GODLIKE?? Again...I think Nick is great but I'll hold judgement till I see how he holds the fort with Primeau, Handzus or Roenick skating right up his porch. You're a fast team but you'd think you were a Canadians dynasty the way you describe them.... after beating 2 of the worst playoff teams in the East. Whether you folks like it or not...your team won't be measured on how they dealt with the Isles or Habs...it'll be how you do vs the Flyers...did I mention we're also sick with speed?

This is eerily reminiscent of Eagle fan trolling the Buc ng on usenet.

King Fish

05-07-2004, 07:47 PM

This will be one heck of a series! I think some people believe that Philly is still a big slow team, they are a very good mix of size and speed with a very mobile defense. TB has lots of speed and also will not get pushed around as was evident in the earlier rounds. Philly got some good news in that Kapanen and Malakhov should be ready for tomorrow. Kapanen will go back playing with Primeau and Gagne on there "shut down" line. These teams are both very balanced, no weakness in goal for either team. Get ready for some fun hockey!

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 08:29 PM

Obviously you cant discuss hockey with Tampa Bay Fans without trying to fight. Your comment was perfectly fine until you add that little shot in there that you know will provoke a response from one of them. When your on another teams board you gotta expect they will talk bad about a rival team but your on thier board so just ignore it. They talk crap about the Caps all the time and I never argue with them over it.

I said early that I didnt want to start a fight, when I say you guys I mean TB fans not starting anything. You guys is offensive... :shakehead

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 08:32 PM

Last time. Give me an example of a game played during the season or playoffs where physical play by the opponent took the Lightning out of their usual game.

How many times did you lose this season? Usually loses mean you got out played. Now I know that doesnt mean always that the physical aspect. But the team that beats the other usually exploits the weakness of the other. Am I wrong?

Dropkick Alex

05-07-2004, 08:35 PM

Case closed.

Man that made sense

Patrick

05-07-2004, 08:57 PM

Man that made sense

Its alittle over your head.

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 08:24 AM

Its alittle over your head.

This is even between me and you its between and the other guy stay out.

joeminus

05-08-2004, 08:34 AM

... stay out.

Likewise. Please.

Gags1288

05-08-2004, 11:27 AM

...you mean to tell me Lalime and all of those softies had nothing to do with it? Maybe your forgetting Khabibulin has god like numbers coming into this series. :dunno:

Bolts have a knack for making the opposition miss on their checks, which will wear the Flyers down. Its like foreplay, woeing the opposition into making turnovers and feinting moves that would make even Ben Steins knees buckle. Its nothing to thumb your nose at, very serious stuff messing with Lightning. Try not to blink
Maybe you should have watched the series before blaming lalime. Lalime was very very good for Ottawa except for game 7. He's the only reason they were in a game 7 with his unbelievable save at the end of regulation in game 6. His played for the regular season did not translate to the post-season in any way, shape, or form. He played one bad game and has taken most of the blame, but he actually played a very good series. Anyway, that series and this series have nothing to do with eachother, so i'm not sure why it came up.

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 12:58 PM

Likewise. Please.

Im here to discuss hockey so Im not leaving.

Sotnos

05-08-2004, 02:27 PM

If you're here to talk hockey, then do so. If you're here to insult me and my posters, keep it to yourself.

Final warning

Edit: Just so it makes sense, I'm referring to some posts I deleted, not the stuff that's still here.

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 03:19 PM

petec1978*

05-08-2004, 04:13 PM

Now that the myth of Philly's big bad physical dominance has been put to rest... we can get on with the rest of the series.

Philly fans, you ran into the fundamental dilemma that the Lightning pose any opponent: if you put your shutdown line on Lecavalier and St. Louis, Richards and Modin will kill you and vice versa.

And Hitchcock's "system" won't change that.

-Pete Choquette

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 04:36 PM

joeminus

05-08-2004, 05:04 PM

Who did I insult? Final Warnnig?

Nice hockey content.

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 05:11 PM

Nice hockey content.

He was talking to me not you and it was a direct comment to me anyway...Nice smarts

Gee Wally

05-08-2004, 05:31 PM

stick to hockey...if anybody has a question for Sotnos , use the PM feature.

petec1978*

05-08-2004, 06:01 PM

A series is won in one game?

No, but one game CAN be very illustrative of how the two teams truly match up.

After almost a week of Flyers fan pounding their chest, the following myths were dispelled:

1.) The Flyers size advantage would mean they would push the Lightning around.
-Actually, the Lightning are the exavt same average size as the Flyers... and when they choose to apply themselves physically they can nullify the Flyers physical advantage relatively well. They did so today.

2.) Hitchcock's "system" would confuse and confound the Lightning.
-I thought Coach Tortorella really outcoached Hitch in this game shuffling St. Louis, Lecavalier, and even Modin through the lines to create favorable matchups. Hitch couldn't cope, nor could he find anything remotely resembling sustained offensive pressure for the last 2 periods no matter what he tried.

3.) The Flyers have more offensive weapons as the Lightning.
-As I said, the Lightning force you to choose your poison. Hitch was trying to get Primeau on Lecavalier and St. Louis' line most of the game. That left Freddy Modin to get 2A, Cory Stillman to get 2A, and Brad Richards to get the GWG, albeit some of that came on Andreychuk's power play.

4.) The Flyers would jam the front of the net on Khabibulin and knock him off his game.
-Other than Keith Primeau's nose dive into the Lightning crease on his breakaway attemot in the first and a couple of other small incidents, the Lightning really formed a wall of black jerseys around Khabi all day long.

5.) The Flyers are far better defensively.
-The Lightning only allowed 20 SOG. And no, that's not an anomaly. They've held teams to 20 shots or fewer numerous times this season. Their d corps is solid albeit unheralded.

We're good, and we just put Philadelphioa and the rest of the nation on notice.

P.S. I thought Bill Clement, who wears Flyers underoos, was going to cry after the game. Poor Bill, its too bad they don't award points for biased announcing, or the Flyers would've won going away in this game.

-Pete Choquette

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 06:05 PM

petec1978*

05-08-2004, 06:23 PM

Philly owned TB in the 1st and then went down hill.

Golly Panther Fan, you don't suppose not playing a game in 9 days might've been the reason the Lightning had a slow 1st period, do you? It had nothing to do with Philly "going down hill" it had EVERYTHING to do with the Lightning ramping up their play to normal levels.

Once the Lightning got their legs under them, they dictated the terms of the game.

It's really going to be a blow to PantherNation if the Lightning kick the crutch of the Panthers' one finals appearance close to a decade ago where they got swept out like garbage behind their clutching/grabbing/cheating team and their racist goalie with the illegal pads, isn't it?

Poor thing.

-Pete Choquette

Swedish Bolt Fan

05-08-2004, 06:27 PM

Philly owned TB in the 1st and then went down hill. So your idea of the 20 shots on goal cant be to strong even if they play average hockey your looking at 25+ shots if they didnt go down hill and possibly 1 or 2 more goals. :teach:

Owned i wouldnt say that if you OWN someone and you only get 9 shoots in a period it is not that impressive.

Flyers came out trying to play Flyers hockey and all the created with it was basically NOTHING and i would actually go so far to say that the Flyers game they played early on tired the old men in the Orange a lot more than it did Tampa that looked like they had much fresher legs once they got the extreme long break rust polished away.

And it was almost comical to see Clement almost starting to cry when he thought Flyers where so great when they where held to something like 6 shoots in a 30min+ time span.

Good start. This was a pivotal game that the Flyers needed to win and Hitchcook found out how the medicine taste of trying to shut down 1 line.

Look forward to a much better played game of the Lightning on Monday MUCH better and a very likely 2-0 lead going to Philadelphia and so far we NOT lost a single road game this year in playoff not one, not a single one so FEAR that.

Sotnos

05-08-2004, 06:48 PM

Who did I insult? Final Warnnig?
Like it said in the post, I was referring to some stuff I had to delete, therefore, it was obviously not directed at you.

One last time, stick to hockey, and if you have a question about something use a PM.

Dropkick Alex

05-08-2004, 06:58 PM

TB was outshot 9 to 3 or 5 I believe they simply outplayed them in that period.

Leafer4Life

05-08-2004, 08:50 PM

Hey congrats guys on winning the first game! Keep it up! Strike the orange and black dead! :yo:

Hockeyfan02

05-08-2004, 10:37 PM

joeminus

05-08-2004, 10:41 PM

I think Marty reacted pretty nicely.

Goliath, meet David.

TB_FANATIC

05-08-2004, 11:40 PM

Hahahaha

robtootell

05-09-2004, 05:42 AM

A lot of reference was made to Philly being battle hardened after two tough series. I know its easy to say after the event, but after the Lightning got their skating feet back, could it be argued that Philly looked more battle weary against our speed.

The Philly guys are only human. Two tough series against a team fresh from 2 quick wins. I know who I'd rather be playing for (but then again I am 37!)

Go Bolts.

aapbolt

05-09-2004, 08:43 AM

i thought the game was very indicative of how this series will go, hopefully. The Flyers came out flying and trying to put the hit on the Bolts and the speed and endurance of the Bolts won the game. Primeau deserved to be penalized for his dive into Khabbi, what a cheap shot- he actually called it incidental contact in the papers today- dang he even gave Khabbi a shot as he was getting up after he held him down. I always thought the Flyers were a classy team but pitkanens cheap shot on Richards after his gwg was just stupid and classeless, as was the mugging at the flyers end by -i think by handzus. Gee the flyers even got a freebie at the end of the game and could not score. i fully expect the Flyers to come out even more physical and get more frustrated in game 2. This will be very interesting to see how Hitch tries to move his lines around to defense both our top 2 lines. It was really nice to see the clutch and punch line score that 3rd goal.

FlyHigh

05-09-2004, 11:06 AM

Hey Bolt Fans, congrats on the nice win, but for the love of god, please settle down a bit and look at this objectively.

1. The whole Primeau thing was not a goal so I agree with you there.
2. The First goal for the Lightning did bounce off that ref and gave the Lighting a 2-on-none down low. Ref needs to get himself out of the way and I doubt that happens again.
3. On the 2nd goal (Richards I believe), Timander fanned twice and Handzus fanned once on clearing attempts. Good effort by Richards and a bit of a cheap shot, but don't expect it to happen again.
4. Last goal was pathetic coverage by the Flyers and a great play by the Lightning 4th line, but more pathetic coverage and perhaps a bad decision by Esche, i didn't see the game cause I was away, had to look at fuzz replays.

wrap-up: good job by the Lightning in Game 1, but the Flyers are a veteran team and you can't expect to get goals like those first two again. Game 2 will be extremely interesting. Kudos to the Wall and the Lightning D for shutting down the Flyers, it looks like this series will hinge on the Flyers ability/inability to get pucks in the net.

Hoek

05-09-2004, 11:38 AM

Good effort by Richards and a bit of a cheap shot, but don't expect it to happen again.

Speaking of cheap shots, how about the crosscheck he took in the back after scoring? :shakehead

wrap-up: good job by the Lightning in Game 1, but the Flyers are a veteran team and you can't expect to get goals like those first two again.

You're right, we will probably be scoring on DIFFERENT mistakes the Flyers will make next game.. :D

Sotnos

05-09-2004, 11:59 AM

Hey Bolt Fans, congrats on the nice win, but for the love of god, please settle down a bit and look at this objectively.
says the Flyers fan. ;) Both sides have their biases, not sure if "objective" is the right term here. (Just teasing you a little!)

4. Last goal was pathetic coverage by the Flyers and a great play by the Lightning 4th line, but more pathetic coverage and perhaps a bad decision by Esche, i didn't see the game cause I was away, had to look at fuzz replays.
Esche was caught WAY out of position after the first shot, and no one had Dingman covered. Granted, this is understandable, this is Chris Dingman we're talking about, and we've seen him miss wide, gaping nets like that before. :lol

You're right, we will probably be scoring on DIFFERENT mistakes the Flyers will make next game.. :D
Yup. They've been extremely opportunistic all playoffs, don't expect that to change.