Montreal fans wouldn't trade Koivu for Lecavalier

A Montreal fan wouln't trade Koivu for Lecavalier, and he's not the only one. I had several discussion about that on Habs board this winter. This poster (rahan) is saying he wouldn't trade Lecavalier for anyone higher than Dackell. For your info; Andreas Dackell is about one of the worse 3rd line checker existing in NHL.

Here's a link to the post: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=1315879

Very surprising. :amazed: :shakehead

Dackell? :)

Some people really hate Vinny and get very hostile about him, I don't know why. :dunno:

The only player that is more valuable then Vincent Lecavalier in the Habs organization is Jose Theodore. Other then him, I don't think Feaster's dumb enough to want Saku Koivu for Vincent Lecavalier.

Id rather have Koivu.

Although with the age difference i can see why some would want Vincent.

Honestly i cant see Lecavalier ever becoming more than a 70 point player (consistantly).

Which is what Koivu is already.

Plus Koivu is a better leader at this point in time.

I think Lecavlaier gets all the press in TBAY, well him and St Louis now. And everyone over looks Brad Richards, who i think is better than Lecavalier.

Honestly i cant see Lecavalier ever becoming more than a 70 point player (consistantly).

Which is what Koivu is already.


Koivu has gone over 60 points ONCE in his career (71 in 02), how does that make him a 70 point consistant player when Vinny has gone over 60 points 3 times. :dunno:

Wake me up when Koivu starts scoring 30 goals a season consistently like Lecavalier is doing right now! We already have enough assistmen and goals are way more valuable even if you are generous enough to say Koivu and Lecavalier will average the same number of points per season (not the case, so far it's a slight edge to Vinny and he has more room to grow). Not to mention the better physical specimen and the insane between the leg deflections that Vinny can pull out of his ass among other absolutely glorious plays. Saku is a great player and I'm a fan of his but cmon, you can't be serious. Montreal would have to offer up even more than Koivu to even stop Feaster from slamming the phone down in laughter.

Brad Richards is quite unheralded. More consistent playmaker than Vinny (as his assist totals will attest) and his goal scoring picked up this season, but there are physical limits to what he can do and I think if a team really focused on shutting him down it'd be a lot easier than Lecavalier. Unfortunately for our opponents they're both on the same team, which produces a major quandary. :)

Koivu has gone over 60 points ONCE in his career (71 in 02), how does that make him a 70 point consistant player when Vinny has gone over 60 points 3 times. :dunno:

I based it on a ppg. 70 pts in 82 games is = 0.85 ppg

Saku:

1996-97 -- 50 games 56 pts = 1.12
1997-98 -- 69 games 57 pts = 0.83
1999-00 -- 24 games 21 pts = 0.88
2000-01 -- 54 games 47 pts = 0.87
2002-03 -- 82 games 71 pts = 0.86
2003-04 -- 68 games 55 pts = 0.81

Wake me up when Koivu starts scoring 30 goals a season consistently like Lecavalier is doing right now! We already have enough assistmen and goals are way more valuable even if you are generous enough to say Koivu and Lecavalier will average the same number of points per season (not the case, so far it's a slight edge to Vinny and he has more room to grow). Not to mention the better physical specimen and the insane between the leg deflections that Vinny can pull out of his ass among other absolutely glorious plays. Saku is a great player and I'm a fan of his but cmon, you can't be serious. Montreal would have to offer up even more than Koivu to even stop Feaster from slamming the phone down in laughter.

Brad Richards is quite unheralded. More consistent playmaker than Vinny (as his assist totals will attest) and his goal scoring picked up this season, but there are physical limits to what he can do and I think if a team really focused on shutting him down it'd be a lot easier than Lecavalier. Unfortunately for our opponents they're both on the same team, which produces a major quandary. :)

Hes scored 30 goals 2 times in his 6 year carrer. And both times it was barely over 30.

Koivu hasn't even sniffed 30 once and has hit the 20 goal mark only twice. Vinny's done the latter 5 seasons in a row now.

Koivu hasn't even sniffed 30 once and has hit the 20 goal mark only twice. Vinny's done the latter 5 seasons in a row now.

Vinny is a goal scorer, Koivu isnt. (by nature)

That is like saying Zednik is better than Richards because Zednik scores and Richards is a playmaker.

I based it on a ppg. 70 pts in 82 games is = 0.85 ppg

Saku:

1996-97 -- 50 games 56 pts = 1.12
1997-98 -- 69 games 57 pts = 0.83
1999-00 -- 24 games 21 pts = 0.88
2000-01 -- 54 games 47 pts = 0.87
2002-03 -- 82 games 71 pts = 0.86
2003-04 -- 68 games 55 pts = 0.81

Unfortunately, when you are dealing with established NHLers (not prospects), trades are made with respect to real value, and not pro-rated value.

A player may have good PPG numbers, but what good are they if they can't stay healthy? If Koivu puts together a couple of injury-free seasons back-to-back, then maybe you have something to go on. But right now, I have a strong feeling that every GM in the league, including Bob Gainey, would trade Saku Koivu for Vincent Lecavalier.

I'm a fan of Koivu's and like what he brings to the table. That being said, I just don't think the choice is very hard.

A player may have good PPG numbers, but what good are they if they can't stay healthy?
That's all you need to know right there.

No one's dissing Koivu, but you have to look at all the variables, and health is a VERY important one.

Id rather have Koivu.

Although with the age difference i can see why some would want Vincent.

Honestly i cant see Lecavalier ever becoming more than a 70 point player (consistantly).

Which is what Koivu is already.

Plus Koivu is a better leader at this point in time.

I think Lecavlaier gets all the press in TBAY, well him and St Louis now. And everyone over looks Brad Richards, who i think is better than Lecavalier.


Koivu isn't a good leader.
This is why the team can't make the playoffs 4 years out of 6.
He became the 'shou-shou' of the fans because he battled cancer.
Koivu is a good player, but he is not a CAPTAIN.
Lecavalier is a much better leader, a much more skilled player then Koivu. He's also a more impact type player. Koivu doesn't step up when his team needs him. It was all Kovalev in the 1st round that's why captain Koivu went down on his knees and begged Gainey to keep Kovalev. This is also another sign that the Habs fans just listen to themselfs. They think that Kovalev likes Montreal. This guy didn't like his stay with the Canadiens because he was booed while he was injured and playing on the 4th line during the season and he was critisized after the boubou in Game 4, which wasn't even supposed to go to OT (Theodore).

I wouldn't trade a 30 year old Lecavalier for a 20 year old Koivu.
Montreal is better off with a better captain.
A captain steps up.

Point is. That Koivu is a good player but he's half of the player Lecavalier is and will be.

Good luck to the Bolts.
I was at Game 4 and was chearing for you guys.
Hope you guys make it to the big show.

I based it on a ppg. 70 pts in 82 games is = 0.85 ppg

Saku:

1996-97 -- 50 games 56 pts = 1.12
1997-98 -- 69 games 57 pts = 0.83
1999-00 -- 24 games 21 pts = 0.88
2000-01 -- 54 games 47 pts = 0.87
2002-03 -- 82 games 71 pts = 0.86
2003-04 -- 68 games 55 pts = 0.81

Put the stats of 1996-1997 behind please. Forget it. That was a different Saku Koivu, before his first knee injury that slowed him down. Before his knee injury, Saku was very fast, he was able to pass a D by the board, he was able to fly on a breakaway scoring chance. Now this time is over. Saku is average fast and a bit slow compare to the top notch skaters of the league.

Saku Koivu is half the speedy skater he was. He had 3 major knee surgeries. 2 times one knee, one time the other knee (logical Mr Watson, lol).
Saku is 29, next year in november he will be 30. He will never gain speed, he can only gradually become slower and slower.
Vinny is strong, tall, skilled and very fast, still un-injured. He is 23.

Trying and thinking Koivu is better than Lecavalier is laughable. Sometimes I'm a shame of a lot of Habs fans on this forum. I am a Hab fan but I try to stay realistic.

Vinny is a goal scorer, Koivu isnt. (by nature)

That is like saying Zednik is better than Richards because Zednik scores and Richards is a playmaker.

And I'm telling you we don't need any more playmakers, hence why it's important to note Koivu's lack of goalscoring as to why we'd never make the trade.

A Montreal fan wouln't trade Koivu for Lecavalier, and he's not the only one. I had several discussion about that on Habs board this winter. This poster (rahan) is saying he wouldn't trade Lecavalier for anyone higher than Dackell. For your info; Andreas Dackell is about one of the worse 3rd line checker existing in NHL.

Here's a link to the post: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=1315879

Very surprising. :amazed: :shakehead

Surprising is the wrong word. Stupid is more like it.

Unfortunately, when you are dealing with established NHLers (not prospects), trades are made with respect to real value, and not pro-rated value.

A player may have good PPG numbers, but what good are they if they can't stay healthy? If Koivu puts together a couple of injury-free seasons back-to-back, then maybe you have something to go on. But right now, I have a strong feeling that every GM in the league, including Bob Gainey, would trade Saku Koivu for Vincent Lecavalier.

I'm a fan of Koivu's and like what he brings to the table. That being said, I just don't think the choice is very hard.

Gainey would have to add real value to make a Koivu-Lecavalier deal workable. Given age and injury/illness history it never happens from TB's perspective.

Gainey would have to add real value to make a Koivu-Lecavalier deal workable.

Yup.

Considering Toronto offered Andropov + Kaberle + Hogglund + 1st round pick two and half years ago (under Dudley's regime) for Lecavalier, I'd imagine it would take much, much more than Koivu to get Lecavalier.

Not to mention that Feaster is on record as saying he will not be the GM that goes down in history as the guy who traded Vinny Lecavalier.

Koivu for Lecavalier straight up... one word: goofy.

Koivu isn't a good leader.
This is why the team can't make the playoffs 4 years out of 6.
He became the 'shou-shou' of the fans because he battled cancer.
Koivu is a good player, but he is not a CAPTAIN.
Lecavalier is a much better leader, a much more skilled player then Koivu. He's also a more impact type player. Koivu doesn't step up when his team needs him. It was all Kovalev in the 1st round that's why captain Koivu went down on his knees and begged Gainey to keep Kovalev. This is also another sign that the Habs fans just listen to themselfs. They think that Kovalev likes Montreal. This guy didn't like his stay with the Canadiens because he was booed while he was injured and playing on the 4th line during the season and he was critisized after the boubou in Game 4, which wasn't even supposed to go to OT (Theodore).

I wouldn't trade a 30 year old Lecavalier for a 20 year old Koivu.
Montreal is better off with a better captain.
A captain steps up.

Point is. That Koivu is a good player but he's half of the player Lecavalier is and will be.

Good luck to the Bolts.
I was at Game 4 and was chearing for you guys.
Hope you guys make it to the big show.


Messier IS and WAS the best captain in NHL history yet teh Rags havent sniffed the playoffs.

Koivu is a good leader! Doesnt matter if the rest of Montreal has sucked 4 of 6 years.

Yup.

Considering Toronto offered Andropov + Kaberle + Hogglund + 1st round pick two and half years ago (under Dudley's regime) for Lecavalier, I'd imagine it would take much, much more than Koivu to get Lecavalier.

Not to mention that Feaster is on record as saying he will not be the GM that goes down in history as the guy who traded Vinny Lecavalier.

Koivu for Lecavalier straight up... one word: goofy.

That was when Vinny was Michael Jordan :)

First of all there is no way we trade Vinny- how foolish. Saku is a good player but Vinny is and will continue to be much much better over the long haul.
Yassou Dr. kouklos- welcome aboard and thanks for cheering our boys. If you are ever in Tampa- go to Tarpon Springs and go to Mykonos restaurant for the best calamari around, it's as good as my yiayia's.

Guys, Vinny is a real talent... but he would crumble under the media microscope in Montreal.

Guys, Vinny is a real talent... but he would crumble under the media microscope in Montreal.

So have a lot of people...maybe because your media is littered with morons.

There isn't a single player on the Montreal Canadiens worthy of centerpiecing a deal for Vincent Lecavalier.

-Pete Choquette

There isn't a single player on the Montreal Canadiens worthy of centerpiecing a deal for Vincent Lecavalier.

-Pete Choquette

Totally agree, Vinny's not available at any price to the Habs.

Koivu isn't a good leader.
:lol Rock on dude. Where do you get your glue? Maybe he's not your type of leader, but the players and the coaches (like the scoresheets) disagree with you. Since they are the people that he in fact leads, while you watch, I'm going to side with them.

Yup.

Considering Toronto offered Andropov + Kaberle + Hogglund + 1st round pick two and half years ago (under Dudley's regime) for Lecavalier, I'd imagine it would take much, much more than Koivu to get Lecavalier.

Not to mention that Feaster is on record as saying he will not be the GM that goes down in history as the guy who traded Vinny Lecavalier.

Koivu for Lecavalier straight up... one word: goofy.
The injuries and age difference mean that this is a retarded deal to consider anyway. Saku is every bit as skilled as Vinny, just older and with a history of injury. Not a wise deal from any GM's POV. That's not the problem with you logic though. I don't think anyone would trade a Koivu for Antropov+Kaberle+Hoglund. Seriously, a franchise player for a third/fourth line center, a third line blueliner, and a guy who was a joke with us in 98-99? It better be a good 1st round pick! I would have laughed Toronto off the phone. A better comparison would be a Sundin for Saku discussion.

So have a lot of people...maybe because your media is littered with morons.Sure there is a ton of morons in the Montreal media, and that's exactly why he couldn't handle it...BTW, they are not my media... and Vinny is the next Michael Jordan... wasn't that your media???

Sure there is a ton of morons in the Montreal media, and that's exactly why he couldn't handle it...BTW, they are not my media... and Vinny is the next Michael Jordan... wasn't that your media???

I dont like Tbay or Montreal so i dont "have" a media lol

And it wasnt the TBAY media who called Lecavalier Michale Jordon, it was the owner.

Montreal media have a bunch of people who like to start drama. Mike Keane was talking about how he liked golf one day in the Montreal dressing room and a guy from some newspaper heard him and the next day there was a story about how Keane has given up on the team and cant wait to hit the golf course.

Its stuff like that, that pisses players off.

Totally agree, Vinny's not available at any price to the Habs.

With the amount of top prospects the Habs have compared to the NONE that the Botls have I'm pretty sure that if the Bolts ever wanted to trade Vincent the Habs could make an offer to get him....bottom line is if the Bolts ever traded Vincent they would be dumber then Glen Healy

Unbiased Canadian

With the amount of top prospects the Habs have compared to the NONE that the Botls have I'm pretty sure that if the Bolts ever wanted to trade Vincent the Habs could make an offer to get him....bottom line is if the Bolts ever traded Vincent they would be dumber then Glen Healy

Unbiased Canadian

Yeah but even if the Bolts were to trade him they'd want roster players, not just Juniors and AHLers.

I know the habs have a lot of nice prospects, but if a player like Lecavalier were to be traded in the next year youd need to give up roster player(s) as well.

....bottom line is if the Bolts ever traded Vincent they would be dumber then Glen Healy
Yep, and that's why it isn't going to happen. :)

I wouldn't trade Lecavalier for Koivu so that makes it even.

Koivu isn't a good leader.
This is why the team can't make the playoffs 4 years out of 6.
He became the 'shou-shou' of the fans because he battled cancer.
Koivu is a good player, but he is not a CAPTAIN.
Lecavalier is a much better leader, a much more skilled player then Koivu. He's also a more impact type player. Koivu doesn't step up when his team needs him. It was all Kovalev in the 1st round that's why captain Koivu went down on his knees and begged Gainey to keep Kovalev. This is also another sign that the Habs fans just listen to themselfs. They think that Kovalev likes Montreal. This guy didn't like his stay with the Canadiens because he was booed while he was injured and playing on the 4th line during the season and he was critisized after the boubou in Game 4, which wasn't even supposed to go to OT (Theodore).

Montreal is better off with a better captain.
A captain steps up.

Point is. That Koivu is a good player but he's half of the player Lecavalier is and will be.

Good luck to the Bolts.
I was at Game 4 and was chearing for you guys.
Hope you guys make it to the big show.

Sorry, missed something here.

1) KOIVU PLAYED WITH INJURED RIBS, Torn Cartiledge and a Bruised lung since game 2 of the Boston Series. Same injury as thorton who belliached.
2) Was Still Mtl's leading scorer 11pts 11 games, 1 more than kovalev who "carried our team." and more playoff points then lecav.
3) Clearly is the captain and inspirational leader of the Canadiens and a fine Captain. Didn't Lecav get stripped of the Captaincy last year??

Sure there is a ton of morons in the Montreal media, and that's exactly why he couldn't handle it...BTW, they are not my media... and Vinny is the next Michael Jordan... wasn't that your media???

That was YOUR OWNER.

What is the point of this thread? Look how stupid Habs fans are for not wanting to trade Koivu for Lecavalier! Oh but Lecavalier would crack under the Montreal media microscope (never mind the fact that he helped to nail the coffin shut)! Well the Montreal media is stupid! No, the Tampa media is!

Geez Louise. All I know is that if Montreal was stupid enough to trade Koivu and Tampa was stupid enough to trade Lecavalier, I would be stupid enough to wish both of them well in their new homes. But let's all be smart for a second: this trade ain't happening.

Sure there is a ton of morons in the Montreal media, and that's exactly why he couldn't handle it...BTW, they are not my media... and Vinny is the next Michael Jordan... wasn't that your media???

That wasn't the media, that was the owner at the time. Art Williams. Goof ball extraordinaire.

With the amount of top prospects the Habs have compared to the NONE that the Botls have

Key word: prospects. By definition, you're talking about unproven talent at the NHL level.

If the Lightning were ever to trade Lecavalier they'd HAVE to get a return centerpieced by a guy in his mid-20's or younger who already has a proven track record as at least a 25 goal 60 point guy in the NHL... and the Habs don't have him.

Vinny Lecavalier now has 5 straight 20 goal seasons and 2 straight 30 goal seasons, they're not going to trade a proven commodity like that for PROSPECTS... Rick Dudley's no longer GM here in case you haven't heard.

Oh, and just because we don't have high end hyped prospects doesn't mean the Lightning's system is devoid of depth. We have a lot of guys with the potential to have servicable if unspectacular NHL careers.

-Pete Choquette

Surprising is the wrong word. Stupid is more like it.

I try to stay polite and use softer words such as surprising. ;)

Sorry, missed something here.

1) KOIVU PLAYED WITH INJURED RIBS, Torn Cartiledge and a Bruised lung since game 2 of the Boston Series. Same injury as thorton who belliached.
2) Was Still Mtl's leading scorer 11pts 11 games, 1 more than kovalev who "carried our team." and more playoff points then lecav.
3) Clearly is the captain and inspirational leader of the Canadiens and a fine Captain. Didn't Lecav get stripped of the Captaincy last year??

Sorry but you've missed something there yourself.

1) How bad was Koivu's injury? Did you see Saku playing differently than usual in the PO?
The answer is no. While Joe Thornton was obviously not playing like he would when healtly.
2) In second round Saku didn't get much pts. Lecavalier outplayed Saku and was a menace everytime he was in the ice. The Habs D had an hard time on every shifts of Lecavalier while Saku was an easy forward to check for TB's defences. Now Lecavalier is waiting for the next PO round and Saku is playing golf in Finland.
3) So an “inspirational leader of the Canadiens and a fine Captain” that the Habs waited for the third game to start playing hockey. :shakehead
Lecavalier was given the C too soon in his career. Lecavalier came in the league at the age of 18, Koivu at the age of 21. Quite a difference. We're not talking about captaincy abilities but player's values. Captaincy and bla bla bla: another bulls**t argument given by to many Habs fans.

I don't understand the original premise. There is nothing to criticize in either player. Lecavalier looks like he will become what everyone thought he would in the beginning. Personally, seeing him as a rookie, by now I thought he'd be a 80-90 point guy [by today's standards]. I don't see him enough to argue why it's taken a year or two longer. I've seen nothing in his game I don't like. The only knock I hear is consistency, but I'm guessing he's dealing with it. Koivu is the heart and soul of the Habs right now, there isn't much to criticize. He plays with his heart on his sleeve, competes every shift, takes a step back from no one, and is a tremendous playmaker. He is a playmaker first though. He plays bigger than his isze, but has been worn down by injuries though. Still any team would welcome what he brings.

Lecavalier is younger,bigger, and faster. if he isn't on the World Cup team,he'll be knocking pretty hard on the door. His time seems to have arrived. Koivu is a coach's dream but there are some things on the ice that Lecav. can do that Koivu can't. Vinny now has to do them year in and year out though. The whole issue is silly. Why would Mtl. look to move Koivu ? Why would Lecav. be traded at this point,except to fill a glaring need ? There are probably a dozen forwards in the league who are the complete package,size,speed,skill,attitude. These guys are usually drafted in the top 2 or 3. Mtl. has never been willing to step back far enough to get one of these guys.

The original premise was to demonstrate the blind attitude of many Habs fans. I guess every team have biaised blind fans on some players they usually overate.

I am agree with all your post. Great analyse. :handclap:

I would never trade Saku Koivu for Vincent Lecavalier. Why? Koivu is the heart and soul of the team, may sound cliched, but its true. Looking around the league, there are precious few players who mean that much not only to the team, but also to the fans. Yzerman and Stevens come to mind right away.

Not only is he the team's best player, but a fan favorite and most importantly, a great captain. Talent-wise Lecavalier is more valuable, but when you got a guy who's garnered a 7-minute standing ovation from his home fans (that was only cut short because the PA announcer wanted to get the national anthems underway), you keep him when you get him.

I won't argue with a Dylan fan. GM's that trade guys like Lecavalier don't last long, though. They couldn't be traded because for each other because it makes no sense. Koivu is more valuable to the Habs than he would be to anyone else and Vinnie is a young player getting better on a team getting better. If TB lose in 4 in the next round, what would be the reaction if some poster suggested a St.Louis for Ovechkin deal. [and I don't know how good Ovechkin is,just an example] Well St.Louis is what 28 or 29 ? How do you resist a big franchise forward. tB would hate to make that choice. Teams don't have to make that choice because it doesn't work like that.

I won't argue with a Dylan fan.

OT response regarding Dylan. I never was much of a fan, but I always had the utmost respect for him. No more. The day I saw him on the Victoria's Secret commercial ended any respect I had for the man. Sickening.

OT response regarding Dylan. I never was much of a fan, but I always had the utmost respect for him. No more. The day I saw him on the Victoria's Secret commercial ended any respect I had for the man. Sickening.

The the Victoria's Secret gig is peanuts compared to the *outrage* that happened when he walked onto stage the first time with an electric guitar.

And what about those years in which his concerts were filled with his testimony about his relationship with Jesus Christ?

Part of the mystique of Dylan is that he refuses to be boxed and labelled. He does what he wants to. He pushes the envelope, and with it, the buttons of critics and fans and *spectators* alike.

I think he will to the day he dies.

...

Man, you talk exactly like somebody that always listens to 110%..or rds, whatever.

Shall we make ribs captain, lol.

Koivu stepped up, played a hell of a series..hurt might I add. He is the soul of the team.



Koivu isn't a good leader.
This is why the team can't make the playoffs 4 years out of 6.
He became the 'shou-shou' of the fans because he battled cancer.
Koivu is a good player, but he is not a CAPTAIN.
Lecavalier is a much better leader, a much more skilled player then Koivu. He's also a more impact type player. Koivu doesn't step up when his team needs him. It was all Kovalev in the 1st round that's why captain Koivu went down on his knees and begged Gainey to keep Kovalev. This is also another sign that the Habs fans just listen to themselfs. They think that Kovalev likes Montreal. This guy didn't like his stay with the Canadiens because he was booed while he was injured and playing on the 4th line during the season and he was critisized after the boubou in Game 4, which wasn't even supposed to go to OT (Theodore).

I wouldn't trade a 30 year old Lecavalier for a 20 year old Koivu.
Montreal is better off with a better captain.
A captain steps up.

Point is. That Koivu is a good player but he's half of the player Lecavalier is and will be.

Good luck to the Bolts.
I was at Game 4 and was chearing for you guys.
Hope you guys make it to the big show.

Lecavalier is a much better leader, a much more skilled player then Koivu.

Vinny isn't a good leader, yet. Maybe one day, but not yet. That's why Torts took the captaincy away from him 2.5 years ago. He hadn't earned it yet.

With Andreychuk, Vinny (and the other young Bolts) have seen what a good NHL captain looks like, behaves, brings to the team on and off the ice. Invaluable.

Many of us believe that St. Louis should be the heir to the Bolt captaincy if/when the Old Skool Assassin retires.

Not Lecavalier. Not yet.

The the Victoria's Secret gig is peanuts compared to the *outrage* that happened when he walked onto stage the first time with an electric guitar.

And what about those years in which his concerts were filled with his testimony about his relationship with Jesus Christ?

Part of the mystique of Dylan is that he refuses to be boxed and labelled. He does what he wants to. He pushes the envelope, and with it, the buttons of critics and fans and *spectators* alike.

I think he will to the day he dies. I think Bob would be amused to think he sickened someone. The last 5-6 years he's been doing a few things simply because they seem like they'd be fun. He laughs at the idea that he should remain a symbol of something other than a singer/poet/guitar player. The man's turning 62 and was asked to be around Victoria secret models, ooh tough decision.Probably made him a hero with his grandchildren.

Good point on Andreychuk, I can't think of a player who has grown into the veteran presence role on a team better than he has. He is so technically sound on positional and set plays, that I have to believe that he's had a great influence on some of his younger talented teammates. That was a huge difference in the Mtl. series, the ability to execute, set plays.

OT response regarding Dylan. I never was much of a fan, but I always had the utmost respect for him. No more. The day I saw him on the Victoria's Secret commercial ended any respect I had for the man. Sickening.

Bob Dylan in a Victoria's Secret commercial? :eek: I'm sure if I dug deep enough I'd find some relation there to mcphee and his fishnet stockings. :dunno:

Bob Dylan in a Victoria's Secret commercial? :eek: I'm sure if I dug deep enough I'd find some relation there to mcphee and his fishnet stockings. :dunno:

Look, I needed them as a disguise, it's not like I wear them around the house or grocery shopping. OK, I'll give you the grocery shopping.

Has this HABitude guy jumped on the Lightning bandwagon or something?

I'd rather have Koivu. I know Vinny will be the more dominant player for many years, but I just wouldn't want him on my team even if it did mean success. Richards and St. Louis I like, Lecavalier just rubs me the wrong way.

Has this HABitude guy jumped on the Lightning bandwagon or something?

I'd rather have Koivu. I know Vinny will be the more dominant player for many years, but I just wouldn't want him on my team even if it did mean success. Richards and St. Louis I like, Lecavalier just rubs me the wrong way.

There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, you're a fan, not a GM. I'm still pissed that the Expos dumped Bill Lee.

Has this HABitude guy jumped on the Lightning bandwagon or something?

I'd rather have Koivu. I know Vinny will be the more dominant player for many years, but I just wouldn't want him on my team even if it did mean success. Richards and St. Louis I like, Lecavalier just rubs me the wrong way.

Never have seen ANYTHING negative about Vinny in the local press, not even on a bulletin board. Same for St Louis. Both are extremely well thought of in the area.

Lecavalier always rubs those with a sour grapes mentality the wrong way. It just doesn't seem fair that he (seemingly) has had everything handed to him on a silver platter. Ham 'n eggers are always choosing the guy who is a bit short on talent but makes up for it with heart and hard work.

Well nothing negative at least since that spat two seasons ago. I guess that's where some haters still get their ammo from. He wasn't being a spoiled brat. That was played up. It's just that nobody likes to hear they need to improve certain things and Torts approach definitely seemed unfair in a couple specific instances. Also Torts aired his dirty laundry with Vinny to the media way too often back then, making things worse and blown up out of proportion. Both sides have learned since then and the team is much better off for it. Needless to say there are no major character issues with Vinny now.

I'd rather have Koivu!!

I'd rather have Koivu!!

Good for you. Habs have him and they will keep him if they want Vinny for him. Vinny isnt going anywhere. It isnt going to happen period not with a real GM in place in Tampa, Dudley might have tried it you never know

Now, here's the *real* question:

When the new CBA is hammered out and the UFA age drops to 27 or 28, will Lecavalier bolt to Montreal where he obviously loves playing making all trade talk completely moot?

And forget the answer to that one, nobody can look into his head and formulate an answer, the real key to the question posed is this:

UFA at 27 or 28? Whatever was left of loyalty in sports will certainly be long gone. The Steve Yzerman's of the past who remained with the same team for their entire career will be gone, gone, gone. There should be something worked into the CBA that recognizes and rewards loyalty, thus giving fans the ability to enjoy their team's without having to get a completely new players list for each season.

Dark days ahead.

ACF

Not to mention the Rangers' strategy of signing every FA in sight might actually.. ahem.. work! Since they will no longer will be old and past their prime..