WC Group C: Apr 27 GDT - Sweden vs. Russia (3-2)

Predatore
04-26-2004, 06:45 PM
Official Tournament website: http://www.iihf.com
Follow the games on-line: http://www.iihf.com/hydra/tournaments/output/WS/
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Sweden vs. Russia
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My prediction: 4-2 Sweden

Should be a tight game by all means. I wasn't at all impressed by the Russian team in an exhibition game last week however, but on the other hand Kovalchuk wasn't playing :)

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 05:30 AM
Prediciton: 3-1 for Sweden. Nylander, Kahnberg and Påhlsson.

The lines I want to see tonight:
A Johansson - Jönsson - Alfredsson
Kahnberg - Nylander - Axelsson
Hedström - Påhlsson - Salomonsson
Tjärnqvist - Davidsson - Sjöström
Scratches: Höglund, Andersson

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 06:04 AM
4-1 Russia.
Sorry guys... Sweden should have little chance over a packed team like this russian team.

Packed team? You mean they have a deep roster?

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 06:50 AM
I meant stacked :D stacked with top line talent.

Yepp, you're right, but Sweden is a hard working team and could get the Russian players out of balance. Jonathan Hedström irritated half of the Russian team in a tournament earlier this season, and he can do it again. I belive in Sweden. ;)

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 07:07 AM
This will be tough but I believe we have a good chance. Sweden wins 4-3

Riddarn
04-27-2004, 09:17 AM
Russia wins, 3-0.

Nazgullah
04-27-2004, 09:19 AM
Russia wins 3-2.

Seiza
04-27-2004, 09:36 AM
Prediciton: 3-1 for Sweden. Nylander, Kahnberg and Påhlsson.

The lines I want to see tonight:
A Johansson - Jönsson - Alfredsson
Kahnberg - Nylander - Axelsson
Hedström - Påhlsson - Salomonsson
Tjärnqvist - Davidsson - Sjöström
Scratches: Höglund, Andersson

As far as I know that's exactly how the lines will be. Interesting to see what Kahnberg can do with Nyllet and PJ. My guess for the game tonight is 2-2.

teme
04-27-2004, 09:49 AM
4 - 3 Sweden.

I don't see how Russians would score less than three, but I see them giving up even more.

edit: spelling

rnyquist
04-27-2004, 10:05 AM
4-1 Sweden, Lundqvist will shut the door perusual

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 11:16 AM
As far as I know that's exactly how the lines will be. Interesting to see what Kahnberg can do with Nyllet and PJ. My guess for the game tonight is 2-2.

Yes, it's a very interseting line. It has everything. Axelsson has speed, defensive awarness, checking. Nylander is a excellent playmaker, can hold on to the puck, do the unexpected. Kahnberg is the scorer, can do nice moves. Will be a very intersting line. If they play together that is.

BTW, we can go with five defensemen IMO. Tärnström, Hävelid, Bäckman and Tjärnqvist are used to ice-times around 23-28 minutes. Sundin also playes a lot with Frölunda. Won't be any problems. Besides, we need both of Axelsson and Nylander tonight, and if we wait with one of them, both Sundin and Forsberg can't join the roster later. Although I don't think especially Sundin won't come, due to the injurie he had, it would be stupid not to have two roster spots for Sudden and Foppa IF they both are eliminated and decides to come.

Riddarn
04-27-2004, 11:34 AM
I think Johansson - Jönsson - Alfredsson is a bad line. Too many puck-kåta lirare, if you know what I mean. Johansson is a better center than Davidsson, I don't understand why he's not centering a line of his own. You might recall that Johansson was very good in the comeback against finland in the WC in Gothenburg a few years back. He is a good leader and a good center, we should make use of it.

Slime
04-27-2004, 12:45 PM
3-2 Sweden

Make
04-27-2004, 12:53 PM
Russia wins 5-2

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 01:30 PM
Russia 3 - 2 Sweden

I'm pretty sure this one will be close as everytime those to countries play eachother. Anybody knows a link to a radio or TV in english or Russian to listen the game?

Vagrant
04-27-2004, 01:38 PM
Kahnberg is going to get a chance to play with Nylander, a fantastic playmaker, and Axelsson, a fantastic defensive player. It's going to be great to see him paired with top level NHL talent to see how far away from playing for Carolina he is. I'm predicting he has a big game.

4-3 Sweden

monster_bertuzzi
04-27-2004, 02:02 PM
Can someone give me Russia's roster? Thanks!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:05 PM
Can someone give me Russia's roster? Thanks!

tip: take a look at the first message in this thread, click the on-line link - click line-ups ;)

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:06 PM
Kahnberg is going to get a chance to play with Nylander, a fantastic playmaker, and Axelsson, a fantastic defensive player. It's going to be great to see him paired with top level NHL talent to see how far away from playing for Carolina he is. I'm predicting he has a big game.

4-3 Sweden

they are playing former IHL star Niklas Andersson with Nylander and "Pebben", so Kahnberg will be on the fourth line with Tjärnqvist and Sjöström.

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 02:19 PM
2-1 Russia

2 goals Kovalchuk

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:22 PM
5 minutes
Sweden has dominated, great intensity so far. PJ Axelsson with an excellent hit on Kovalchuk.

Nazgullah
04-27-2004, 02:24 PM
Indeed a great start by the swedes. :banana:

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 02:26 PM
Indeed a great start by the swedes. :banana:

Russians have a good proverb:

Bad start, great ending! :D

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 02:32 PM
Rossija vpered!!! :yo:

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:32 PM
powerplay Sweden.
Russians have started to play well now also, Yashin and Kovalchuk were dangerous but Lundqvist made two good saves.

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 02:35 PM
Rossija vpered!!! :yo:


Shaibu! Shaibu! Shaibu!



:bow: .... old CCCP guy --->>> :hockey:

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 02:38 PM
PP Russia.

Shajbu, Shajbu :D

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:40 PM
1-0 Dick TÄrnstrÖm!!!

Make
04-27-2004, 02:42 PM
SWE 1 Tärnström (Hävelid)

RUS 0

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 02:43 PM
1-0 Sweeds SJOSTROM, Fredrik :shakehead

Nazgullah
04-27-2004, 02:44 PM
Yeeeees! :D

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:45 PM
End of first period, 1-0 Sweden
Best period I've seen so far in this tournament.
Sweden could have scored 3-4 goals in this period probably, Sokolov has made a couple of fine saves .. as has Henrik Lundqvist.

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 02:48 PM
They say Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and Yashin had a couple of great scoring chances. I hope this turns around in the second period.

Predatore, how does russian defence look?

Sibir; If you are watching the game live, let me know what you think about it.

gkrangers
04-27-2004, 02:50 PM
Lundqvuist is the man!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 02:50 PM
yup, they had one each I believe. Not extremely dangerous but quality scoring chances. Lundqvist could take care of it though.

The Russian defense has had some problems IMO, Swedish forwards are checking very hard and have been skating around the Russian net very easily in the first period, which is the main reason why they have had so many scoring chances.
I'm not sure, but they don't look like the quickest bunch of players the Russian defensemen..

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 02:51 PM
Michael Nylander makes a difference. His ability to hold on to the puck is fantastic, I just love this guy. Niklas Andersson have looked so-and-so by his side, but maybe is a better choice then Kahnberg if you look at experience.

This Ovechkin kid have had some nice moves as well. Respect. :yo:

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 02:53 PM
They say Kovalchuk, Ovechkin and Yashin had a couple of great scoring chances. I hope this turns around in the second period.

Predatore, how does russian defence look?

Sibir; If you are watching the game live, let me know what you think about it.

sorry, in Germany they don't show Russians on TV :banghead:

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 02:54 PM
Thanks Predaotre,

that's what I thought would be our biggest problem in the tournament. Our defense on paper didn't seem very reliable.

Good luck for the rest of the game!

Rossija vpered!!!

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 02:57 PM
Michael Nylander makes a difference. His ability to hold on to the puck is fantastic, I just love this guy. Niklas Andersson have looked so-and-so by his side, but maybe is a better choice then Kahnberg if you look at experience.

This Ovechkin kid have had some nice moves as well. Respect. :yo:

Nylander really was a pain in the @ss for the Habs the whole series against Boston. What a great puckhandler.

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:04 PM
Russia on the PP

Good start by Russia so far.

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:05 PM
1-1
Kovalchuk puts the puck in an open net

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:05 PM
PP for Russia, come on guys, don't spoil that one!

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:06 PM
Yeah Baby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kovy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:08 PM
Christian Bäckman hits the post, I believe
Ooh, what a game! :)

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:13 PM
PP for Russia... :D

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:13 PM
15-8 shots for Russia!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:15 PM
2-1 Russia
Team Russia is playing very well now, while the Swedish D is struggling :)

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:15 PM
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOL KOVALCHUK scond of the game

Panopticon
04-27-2004, 03:15 PM
2-1 Russia

2 goals Kovalchuk

You're doing good so far, but I'm guessing there will be more goals now.

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:16 PM
two PP goals in a row ... wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RED MACHINE is back ????

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:17 PM
Red Machine is back, at least for now ;)
PP Russia.. after an absolutely stupid penalty (high-sticking) by Andreas Johansson

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:17 PM
You're doing good so far, but I'm guessing there will be more goals now.


i would say, it is enough ;)

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:17 PM
two PP goals in a row ... wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RED MACHINE is back ????

Finally, last year's PP was a shame... CCCP is back :D

ZBORNAJA
04-27-2004, 03:18 PM
WOW TIHONOV almost make me come :) :innocent: ;) :naughty:

Jacob
04-27-2004, 03:20 PM
That was unnecessary.

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:20 PM
Finally, last year's PP was a shame... CCCP is back :D

last year? i would say last decade!

ZBORNAJA
04-27-2004, 03:22 PM
last year? i would say last decade!

VERY true very true :cry:

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:23 PM
PP Svecia

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:23 PM
Sweeden with a PP, davaj Sokolov! Stop those shots :D

ZBORNAJA
04-27-2004, 03:24 PM
WOW a lot of penalties for SWeden :eek: for those who watch game are they well deserved ?

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:24 PM
Zbornaja,
I'd say so, they have been very obvious.

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:27 PM
Kazakhstan 1-0 Latvia

Go Kazakhstan, Go Russia!

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:28 PM
Kazakhstan 1-0 Latvia

Go Kazakhstan, Go Russia!

Go USTINKA! Go USTINKA!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:30 PM
Sweden playing well again, Russia having some problems
PP Sweden.

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:33 PM
Another PP for the Sweeds. Sokolov, stand up!

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 03:35 PM
Go USTINKA! Go USTINKA!

Ustinka?

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:37 PM
Ustinka?

Ustinka = Ust-Kamenogorsk, 95% of the players are from this city, in north Kazakhstan

Predatore
04-27-2004, 03:39 PM
wow, Michael Nylander totally destroyed the Russian defense, skated circles and circles around them, almost resulted in a Swedish goal.

Well , the second period is over.. another great one. Sweden was clearly the better team in the first period, this second one has been tight.. thanks to a great finish by Sweden.

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:42 PM
Ustinka = Ust-Kamenogorsk, 95% of the players are from this city, in north Kazakhstan

north Kazakhstan or south-eastern Russia ;)

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 03:44 PM
Ustinka = Ust-Kamenogorsk, 95% of the players are from this city, in north Kazakhstan

Stupid me, I remember that now. :banghead:

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 03:44 PM
wow, Michael Nylander totally destroyed the Russian defense, skated circles and circles around them, almost resulted in a Swedish goal.


Nylander turned so many times that Yashin was dizzy and just fell to the ice. Nylander will be even better, remember he hasn't pracitsed once with the team.

The russian power play is really good. They are so skilled with the puck. Sweden however having quite some success in the offensive zone as well. Mathias Tjärnqvist and Fredrik Sjöström are perfect fourth liners, working hard and make the Russian players tired.

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:45 PM
north Kazakhstan or south-eastern Russia ;)

agree ;)

CSKA
04-27-2004, 03:46 PM
Ilya is just :eek: :handclap:

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 03:46 PM
agree ;)

This is starting to be OT. There is another thread about that game. However, Ust-Kamenogorsk isn't close to Vladivostok, is it? :lol:

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:49 PM
This is starting to be OT. There is another thread about that game. However, Ust-Kamenogorsk isn't close to Vladivostok, is it? :lol:

OT ?

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 03:52 PM
OT ?

Off Topic

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 03:53 PM
Off Topic

ok. agree also ;)

but you started the discussion about Ustinka :D

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 03:55 PM
1-1 between Lat and Kaz...

Is the third started yet? I don't trust that IIHF ticker

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:06 PM
Russia under heavy pressure. This game is not slowing down :yo:

CSKA
04-27-2004, 04:06 PM
Great game ! Some skillz out there :handclap:

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 04:13 PM
Hållberg is playing a very good game. Nice to see him IMO.

SIBIR
04-27-2004, 04:14 PM
please tell more!!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:14 PM
what a goal! Michael Nylander 2-2!

Make
04-27-2004, 04:15 PM
SWE 2 Nylander (Alfredsson)

RUS 2

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 04:15 PM
YES!

We deserved this.

Great game...

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 04:15 PM
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo :cry:

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:15 PM
Zelepukin is down, doesn't look too good.

pld459666
04-27-2004, 04:16 PM
I don't care if I can't understand the announcers I want to hear how good this kid Lundqvist is playing.

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 04:17 PM
I'm scared everytime Kovalchuk has the puck.

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:17 PM
Lundqvist has been good, no question. However it has been pretty much Sweden, Sweden for the last 20 minutes, but once in a while Ovechkin or someone has a good scoring chance but he takes care of it.

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:18 PM
I'm scared everytime Kovalchuk has the puck.
I'm amazed everytime Ovechkin has the puck. :)

Foppa_Rules
04-27-2004, 04:18 PM
Noooooo, it's 2-2!!! Come on Russia!!!

CSKA
04-27-2004, 04:20 PM
I'm amazed everytime Ovechkin has the puck. :)


Ovechkin + 2 years older + hes last scoring chance = 3:1 ? :)

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 04:21 PM
I'm amazed everytime Ovechkin has the puck. :)

Not as impressed when he doesn't have the puck?

TV just showed an example of his defensive play.

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:21 PM
hehe, most likely ;)

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:22 PM
Not as impressed when he doesn't have the puck?

TV just showed an example of his defensive play.

agreed, that was a poor shift by him, however he was out of place almost directly.. and then never "came back". Looked very confused there.

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 04:23 PM
PP for Russia

VPEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:24 PM
actually it is 4 on 4 :)

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 04:25 PM
agreed, that was a poor shift by him, however he was out of place almost directly.. and then never "came back". Looked very confused there.

Pretty normal for younger players though. Russians especially I think

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 04:25 PM
:(

I thought Ilja was going to get his hat trick...

Go Russia Go

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:25 PM
3-2 SWEDEN!!!!!!!!!!!
jörgen jönsson! 18.27

Make
04-27-2004, 04:25 PM
SWE 3 JÖNSSON Jörgen (Axelsson, Tjärnqvist)

RUS 2

Nazgullah
04-27-2004, 04:26 PM
Yeees! That was a nice one! :handclap:

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 04:26 PM
:banana: :jump: :handclap: :lol:

YES!

CSKA
04-27-2004, 04:26 PM
nice goal

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:28 PM
terribly dive by Kovalchuk, no call luckily for the Swedes.. puuuh

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 04:28 PM
:cry: :mad:

ZBORNAJA
04-27-2004, 04:28 PM
:cry:

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:30 PM
Dick Tärnström almost put the puck in the empty Russian net.

33 second to go

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 04:30 PM
Goalie out

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:31 PM
20 seconds to go, Russia pp 6 on 4

Fredrik
04-27-2004, 04:32 PM
Great game by Sweden who deserved to win. This tournament can be fun...

Foppa_Rules
04-27-2004, 04:33 PM
Darn.

Predatore
04-27-2004, 04:33 PM
GAME OVER!

The best hockey game I have seen .. hmm since I don't know when.
Lundqvist made a triple save with only second left. Puuuh.

Russia
Sweden
Finland
USA
Slovakia
Denmark

man.. have we some great games to look forward to in the next round.

Slick Nick
04-27-2004, 04:35 PM
Congrats Sweeds, nice game (I guess) ... Good luck for the rest of the tournament

MrRuin
04-27-2004, 04:36 PM
GAME OVER!

The best hockey game I have seen .. hmm since I don't know when.
Lundqvist made a triple save with only second left. Puuuh.

Russia
Sweden
Finland
USA
Slovakia
Denmark

man.. have we some great games to look forward to in the next round.


This world championship is shaping up to be an awesome tournament

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 04:38 PM
GAME OVER!

The best hockey game I have seen .. hmm since I don't know when.


Maybe since Sweden - Finland last year? ;)

Excellent game. Henrik Lundqvist was very good, but he let a little more rebounds than he use to, but of course, he don't meet these highly skilled players every day. He had a very good game. :handclap:

Make
04-27-2004, 04:40 PM
SWE-RUS 3-2

17.32 1-0 Tärnström (Hävelid)

21.35 1-1 Kovalchuk (Yashin, Zelepukin) pp.

28.08 1-2 Kovalchuk (Morozov)

53.16 2-2 Nylander (Alfredsson)

58.27 3-2 Jönsson (Axelsson, Tjärnqvist)

Henrik Lundqvist SWE 9+8+7=24
Maksim Sokolov RUS 6+9+5=20

gkrangers
04-27-2004, 04:42 PM
I really hope Lundqvist signs with the Rangers after the tournament ends..

He'll come over and play a season in Hartford. Or atleast a month or two...then jump to New York if he can handle it.

Panopticon
04-27-2004, 04:46 PM
*******... I was so hoping for a draw...

Panopticon
04-27-2004, 04:51 PM
Maybe since Sweden - Finland last year? ;):


What you say? That never happened.

Robertsson 4-ever
04-27-2004, 04:53 PM
What you say? That never happened.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen a better game. Since our Olympic games vs Finland (1998) and Belarus (2002) it's nice to have the feeling of winning an important game. It must have been a nightmare in Finland, with the Championships in Helsinki, and maybe your best team ever in WC.

Riddarn
04-27-2004, 04:54 PM
Great game. Good hockey and in the same time very entertaining. And the right team won! :toothless

Panopticon
04-27-2004, 05:05 PM
It must have been a nightmare in Finland, with the Championships in Helsinki, and maybe your best team ever in WC.


Actually, to me and my friends it was mostly a joke. We're starting to get used to our team always screwing things up. Still hurts me more when I think about that one time when we lost to the Czechs in the final when they scored in the OT.

SChan*
04-27-2004, 05:41 PM
awesome game by the swedes.

prärievarg
04-27-2004, 05:57 PM
How did Sjostrom look?

Predatore
04-27-2004, 05:59 PM
He looked good. He had one bad shift, where he lost the puck two times, but overall he probably played his best game in the tournament. (Mostly) Strong on the puck, and great along the boards.

teme
04-28-2004, 02:05 AM
I found myself rooting for the Swedes and that's a first. I really like their style, the way they utilize their dmen in offence is great. It lead to the second Russian goal, but also to the game winning goal. Tre Kronor is really playing good hard, offencive hockey. Unlike in previous games, powerplay is not a strength, way too predictable and at times pathetic.

Russians busted their ass off too, I think I saw them block more shots than in all previous tournaments put together. Still, they have no forecheck to speak off and you can't win if you turn the game over to the opponent like that no matter how skilled you are. What kept Russians in the game wastheir powerplay, very very scary. Sokolov didn't impress me, and contrary to other posters neither did Ovechkin. OK, he is still a kid, but his decision making with the puck was way too slow.

These games are looking very good so far, looking forward to Finland - Sweden.

md17
04-28-2004, 03:10 AM
These games are looking very good so far, looking forward to Finland - Sweden.

I'm not. After seeing this game I'm simply afraid of both of these teams. I just don't have the faith.

Nylander seems to get better with age. Amazing skills, although sometimes a bit too 'artistic' maybe. Great to watch nonetheless.

Ovechkin didn't have his best game, but the talent this guy has is just ridiculously obvious. Could have scored a goal or two with better luck.

Raimo Sillanpää
04-28-2004, 03:52 AM
Russia at times looked very scary. The way they created panic in the Swedish defence at times reminded one of the Soviet Union.

the powerplays were also impressive.. but why did Tkhonov try to defend with such an offensively loaded team? In the final period it seemed that the defensive line was on the ice constantly.. he should have given Kovaltchuk and the likes free reign to kill Sweden off imho..

And what was with the referee? Giving a Swede a penalty in the Swedish zone, but then moving the faceoff to the neutral zone??

Seiza
04-28-2004, 05:45 AM
And what was with the referee? Giving a Swede a penalty in the Swedish zone, but then moving the faceoff to the neutral zone??

Agree, the ref made some very hesitant decisions. Missed a lot of penaltys on both teams. And as you say, what's with the faceoff in the neutral zone...

SChan*
04-28-2004, 06:33 AM
the last penalty call was very questionalble though.

Robertsson 4-ever
04-28-2004, 07:21 AM
the last penalty call was very questionalble though.

Agreed.

Samuel Påhlsson was i giant IMO. He was everywhere, strong along the boards, hard to knock off the puck. He seems to have the same problem to get to goal opportunites as he have in the NHL though, can't remember many chances he have had. But he is superb at PK, and open up ice for teammates. Very underrated center. Could very well turn out to be an option for the upcoming World Cup as fourth center, as Hardy Nilsson doesn't seem to like the Sedin twins.

mikkoz
04-28-2004, 10:22 AM
This was the best game in the tournament by far, what a speed and intensity, and Nylander has never been this good. Lundqvist was good. Russians weren´t that bad either, they have a good team, they need more scorers than just Kovalchuk in these thight games.

Sad to say but Noronen just has put out his best if we are going to win either of these teams.