Ducks Pick 9th

Sorry.... I made another post... hehe

1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Barker
4. Olesz
5. Schremp
6. Ladd
7. Wolski
8. Alvaro
9. ?????

Chipchura was ranked 1st in the midterms but seems to have fallen... Picard could be availible... Im curious in what Murray is looking at... I wonder if he has email... Is Thelen overrated? Would Oneil be a reach? ... I guess the draft talk will heat up in a month...


Oh ya, thanks for everyone that played in my Fantasy league....

found this:


Steblick's top 60 for 2004 draft

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I don’t post here much, but just so you don’t think I’m just some yahoo copying one of the major scouting services, let me say who I am. I am involved in hockey and travel professionally so I get to see a lot of players and tournaments. I’ve probably seen two-thirds of the top draft picks for 2004 live, about 90% if you include videos. And, yeah, I go to Europe for those purposes. On the other hand, I’ll admit that my weak points are NCAA, USHS, and USHL.
This ranking is not a mock draft but a top 60 based on my own observations, scuttlebutt from scouts and other insiders (always to be taken with a grain of salt), people connected with teams and players, and of course, the major scouting services.
Two factors will affect this ranking. One is the World Under-18 championships, which always produces a few surprises. Second is the status of the opt-in players from the NCAA.
Enjoy.

1. Alex Ovechkin- ‘Nuff said.
2. Evgeny Malkin- Like that late birthdate. Great upside.
3. Rostislav Olesz- Already has a ‘man amongst boys’ aura.
4. A.J. Thelen- Rising with a bullet. Improves hand over fist every week.
5. Cam Barker- Potential home-run hitter on the D.
6. Marek Schwarz- The real thing; can perform magic with regularity.
7. Wojtek Wolski- Silky smooth- might apply himself more
8. Rob Schremp- Can’t ignore all-world skill package.
9. Andrew Ladd- Every scout has seen him now; has passed the tests.
10. Drew Stafford- Another late, fast riser; appears to have no weaknesses.
11. Alex Radulov- The Schremp of Europe?
12. Wes O’Neill- Has been up and down but few will pass on potential stud DF.
13. Laurie Tukonen- Already plays a pro-style game. Just needs finish.
14. Ladislav Smid- Extremely poised for his age. Should dominate world U-18s.
15. Andrej Meszaros- Few talk about him but he’s done everything Smid has.
16. Dave Bolland- Great mix of character, improving skill and desire.
17. Alvaro Montoya- Been up and down but proves himself under pressure.
18. Alex Picard- Sniper from the Q has skill and moxy.

IMO there is a drop around #18-19. Anyway, let’s continue:
19. Mike Green- Dan Hamhuis part two.
20. Kyle Chipchura- Character guy with big upside, pro-style player.
21. Devan Dubnyk- Has been inconsistent but size, raw skill are undeniable.
22. Enver Lisin- Speedster needs finishing skills.
23. Boris Valabik- Nasty, giant Slovak will take time but has big upside.
24. Alexei Yemelin- Best U-18 Russian DF rising with a bullet.
25. Bruce Graham- Eric Daze #2?
26. Lukas Kaspar- Complete player; lacks flash but few weaknesses.
27. Roman Voloshenko- Excellent offensive instincts
28. Corey Schneider- Big mystery could surprise.
29. Paul Stastny- Not just great bloodlines; He has risen steadily all year.
30. Blake Wheeler- Another late riser who has big-time ‘project’ appeal.

2nd round:
31. Oscar Hedman- Best Swedish DF prospect in years.
32. David Booth- Looks like a pro; needs first step.
33. Mikhail Yunkov- Typical Russian skilled forward.
34. Kiril Lyamin- Hasn’t been as steady as hoped but oozes potential.
35. Johan Fransson- Right behind Hedman (see above)
36. Adam Pineault- Has he stalled or is he being held back? Big upside!
37. Johannes Salomansson- Without injury 1st round would be likely.
38. Sami Lepisto- Came out of nowhere at WJCs. Is he for real?
39. Jesse Schultz- Great size and sense, skating needs work; worthy project.
40. Carl Soderburg- Some think he is the best of the 2004 Swedes.
41. Jakub Sindel- Great skills but soft; hasn’t delivered on promise so far.
42. Juraj Gracik- Another Slovak forgotten by Joe Draftfan.
43. Ryan Garlock- Steady, complete 3rd liner in the NHL. Safe pick here.
44. David Shantz- For those who need a GK, outside shot at 1st round.
45. Petteri Nokalainen- Hard-nosed character guy. Could surprise.
46. Grant Lewis- VERY high on some lists. Also could surprise.
47. Andy Rogers- Mr. Defence. Good size, skating- due for breakout in 2005.
48. Bryan Bickell- Lost his touch but could refind it.
49. Vaclav Meidl- Similar to Bickell above.
50. Travis Zajac- Going purely on others’ rankings here.
51. Adam Berti- Seems to have overcome big injury. Good toolbox. Tools?
52. Karel Hromas- Shows flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent.
53. Roman Tesliuk- Mature player who rarely flashes but is quietly consistent.
54. Mark Fistric- Big, tough D could have breakout season next year.
55. Justin Peters- Inconistent but has shown enough for 2nd round.
56. Evan McGrath- Has he stalled? Big disappointment but skills are there.
57. Laurie Korpikoski- Must show that recent 5-nations play was no fluke.
58. Sergei Ogorodnikov- Great skill package- must fill out and round off game.
59. Julien Ellis- The best Q goalie this year. ‘Nuff said.
60. Brett Carson- Trio of giant Calgary DF all potential home run picks.

Others who should be close (and could be 2nd round picks given compensatory picks ):
Lukas Vomela- 2 way player has subtle strengths.
John Lammers- Poised for breakout
Boris Alexandrov- Hasn’t developed as expected but still high skill level.
Martin Karsums- Lots of moxy and hockey sense up the wazoo.
Victor Oreskovich- Dark horse with upside. Generating a lot of talk.

And after that, in no particular order:
Aki Seitsonen, Michael Sersen, Casey Borer, Raymond Sawada, Dan Lacosta, Dave Brown, Kyle Wharton, Mitch Maunu, Clayton Barthel, Thomas Greiss, Roman Wick, Peter Guggisberg, Peter Pohl, Alex Plyuschev, Rickard Demen-Willaume, Dmitri Vorobiev, Magnus Akerlund.

I always find it more appealing to consider the teams as well as best available. Of course trades could always occur and while I thought it was a lock for someone to move up for Fleury last year, I think the Caps have to take Ovechkin and won't budge from #1. So...really early but a fun exercise:

1. Washington Capitals - Alexander Ovechkin
2. Pittsburgh Penguins - Evgeny Malkin
3. Chicago Blackhawks - Rostislav Olesz
4. Columbus Blue Jackets - Cam Barker
5. Phoenix Coyotes - Rob Schremp
6. New York Rangers - Andrew Ladd
7. Florida Panthers - Wojtek Wolski
8. Carolina Hurricanes - Marek Schwarz
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks - A.J. Thelen

Im wondering which goalie will be picked up 1st, montoya or Swartz.... I think the ducks should finally draft a goalie in the latter rounds, from 3rd to later. Anyone know of the lower ranked goalies like LaCosta or Schnieder? The ducks seem to do better drafting Euro goalies though...

When does the skill competition start for these prospects. Id like to know of their raw abilities. I think Barker is ranked higher since I think he plays in a higher level league than Thelen. Thelen could be another Jillson if thats good...

Thelen could be a good pick but what I don't like is he needs another year in the NCAA and then one in the minors.

What about Mike Green? Not that big, but he's definitely good.

For the goalies, Dubnyk could still be around in the second.

Im wondering which goalie will be picked up 1st, montoya or Swartz.... I think the ducks should finally draft a goalie in the latter rounds, from 3rd to later. Anyone know of the lower ranked goalies like LaCosta or Schnieder? The ducks seem to do better drafting Euro goalies though...

When does the skill competition start for these prospects. Id like to know of their raw abilities. I think Barker is ranked higher since I think he plays in a higher level league than Thelen. Thelen could be another Jillson if thats good...

Swartz will be picked as the first goalie in the draft. As for a goalie for the Ducks to pick, I'd look to see them draft one around round 5 or so.

Thelen could be a good pick but what I don't like is he needs another year in the NCAA and then one in the minors.

What about Mike Green? Not that big, but he's definitely good.

For the goalies, Dubnyk could still be around in the second.

Well no matter what d-man we picked, I wouldn;t want to rush them into the league anyway. The bottom line with any of these guys is they look to be at least 2 or 3 years away. Which means we may have a different makeup of the team by then. Who knows we may have too many good d-men at that point.

As always, the best thing to do is pick who they think is the best available despite our current needs. Because those needs may be totally different in two years.

Thelen seems to have more upside. Size skill, toughness. Mike Green is an offensive force who is a bit on the smaller side. Pick your poison.

I know upside seems to be a bit of a dangerous word but I think we need some blue chip blue line prospects in the system even if they are a few years away. The more I read about Thelen, the more I like him. He seems to have the potential to be the most complete D-man in the draft in terms of the 3 phases...Defense, hitting and offense. He lists Pronger as his favorite player or the player he most closely tries to emulate. Again, I'm not getting carried away, but I still like that reply a heck of a lot more than a reply of say Sergei Gonchar.

You dont hear much about Thelen's skating abilities or defensive positioning. All I hear is that hes overachieving and has good offensive upside like Jillson or Leopold. Hopefully hes alot tougher and physical than Jillson. I think Anahiem has a good shot at getting him or O'neil.

I'd get Green only if he has the potential to be another Barret Jackman. Barret had similar size but he got bigger and plays stronger that his size appears. Plus hes really nasty and is a good 2 way player. If Green is more like Hamuis I'd pass. Sure hes solid but I the ducks need more physical dominance. We need defensemen that are territorial.

I'd get Green only if he has the potential to be another Barret Jackman. Barret had similar size but he got bigger and plays stronger that his size appears. Plus hes really nasty and is a good 2 way player. If Green is more like Hamuis I'd pass. Sure hes solid but I the ducks need more physical dominance. We need defensemen that are territorial.

This appear to be exactly the description of Green. I mean phisycal 2 way d-man.

It's still very early and the stock of various players will rise and fall---perhaps a couple of times---between now and the draft. There may be some trades, as well. Still, if we pick the Best Player Available---which we should do---my guess is that we draft Drew Stafford with the 9th pick.

my guess is that we draft Drew Stafford with the 9th pick.

Stafford is projected to be a really solid 3rd liner and that's not good enough for a 9th overall pick. There will be better players on the board than both he and Green. I like O'Niell, Thelen, Tukonen, etc.

I see us taking a D-Man with this pick!

I just don't see the point of talking about who we're going to draft, when most of us have never seen any of the players play at all.

I just don't see the point of talking about who we're going to draft, when most of us have never seen any of the players play at all.


:rolleyes:

What else are we going to discuss, how ****** this team performed this season? The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter if we have seen them play or not. It still doesn;t make any one of us an expert either way. But speculation and discussion is what these boards are about.

With that said all I care about is getting an asset. I don't care if he is a forward or a d-man. Assets are what make teams the Colorado's and Detroit's of the league. They let you fix holed where needed.

With that said all I care about is getting an asset. I don't care if he is a forward or a d-man. Assets are what make teams the Colorado's and Detroit's of the league. They let you fix holed where needed.

Anyway, do you have a personal favourite this year? A kid you would love to see wearing a Ducks uniform?

Thelen

Stafford is projected to be a really solid 3rd liner and that's not good enough for a 9th overall pick. There will be better players on the board than both he and Green. I like O'Niell, Thelen, Tukonen, etc.

First, please tell me which expert(s) projected Stafford as "a really solid 3rd liner"? Or is that merely your opinion of him.

BTW, I have seen some references to the fact that O'Neill is relatively "soft"---he plays a lot smaller than his size would indicate. Both O'Neill and Stafford are under-18 NCAA players who would have to "opt in".

Thelen is a bit of a wild card. I didn't see much about him until Kyle Woodlief mentioned him in his most recent Redline Report on the USA Today Hockey site. Thelen could go anywhere from 4th or 5th overall to 16th or so.

Most people have Tukonen gone by the 9th pick. That doesn't mean he won't be there; it just means that, as of now, most people have him pegged in the 5th to 7th overall range.

Tukonen is playing great in the Under-18 tournament. If he keeps up the scoring (had a hattrick and a assist last game) he will go from 5th to 7th as Kick Save mentioned.

If Stafford will be just a third liner (which I don't think) and he's projected to crack the top 10, we better trade our pick for something of more value. Our team is full of third liners thought.

First, please tell me which expert(s) projected Stafford as "a really solid 3rd liner"? Or is that merely your opinion of him.

McKeen's for one. I've never seen any of these kids play.

BTW, I have seen some references to the fact that O'Neill is relatively "soft"---he plays a lot smaller than his size would indicate.

If he's the BPA skill-wise you take him anyway. I'd rather have a "soft" #2 caliber guy than a nasty #5 type (a la Mike Green) from a 9th overall pick. The nasty type should be easier to find in later rounds.

Most people have Tukonen gone by the 9th pick.

And that would push a Ladd or a Schremp, etc down instead. No big deal since we won't know which is the better player for years.

I'd rather have a "soft" #2 caliber guy than a nasty #5 type (a la Mike Green) from a 9th overall pick.

I prefer a motivated Pahlsonn than a non-motivated Fedorov.
What Anaheim absolutely don't need is 6'4" guys who don't want to play the body, Smirnov is enough.
Anyway I agree that Green at this point is a bit too high for him, even if he can be a very good 3#-4# d-man.

Also, Schremp will go before both Tukonen and Ladd.

I prefer a motivated Pahlsonn than a non-motivated Fedorov.


Prefer all you want, but it wouldn't win more games.

Besides I think this is a classic example of scouts needing SOMETHING negative to say about a kid. Just like they said Lupul couldn't skate and Chistov was way too small. Lupul can skate fine and Chistov's size has never been the problem with him.

Also, Schremp will go before both Tukonen and Ladd.

I hope so because I prefer some of the other guys to Schremp, but you can't say that with any certainty. The top 4 I think you can lock down at Ovechkin, Malkin, Barker, and Olesz in some order. After that... very much up in the air.

I don't like Schremp too, but I would love to see Olesz with a Ducks uniform, with a trade or something else BM could move up in the draft.

Anyway, do you have a personal favourite this year? A kid you would love to see wearing a Ducks uniform?

Olesz would be great to have, but no way the kid ends up falling to 9.

I really like what I have heard and the little I have seen from Tukonen.

Thelen from what I have seen seems to be getting better and better. However it is a bit of a risk pick.

Ladd has chemistry with Getzlaf. Might be a solid 1-2 punch down the road.

Olesz would be great to have, but no way the kid ends up falling to 9.

I really like what I have heard and the little I have seen from Tukonen.

Thelen from what I have seen seems to be getting better and better. However it is a bit of a risk pick.

Ladd has chemistry with Getzlaf. Might be a solid 1-2 punch down the road.

Exactly mi thoughts. Olesz could be ours only with a trade, and I don't think that BM would trade someone for him cause we all know he prefer NA guys.

Why do you think Thelen is a risk pick? It seems he is a solid d-man, maybe because he plays in the NCAA and not in the CHL?

Exactly mi thoughts. Olesz could be ours only with a trade, and I don't think that BM would trade someone for him cause we all know he prefer NA guys.

Why do you think Thelen is a risk pick? It seems he is a solid d-man, maybe because he plays in the NCAA and not in the CHL?

He is a risky pick in that he has really come out of nowhere this season to shoot up the rankings. Which should always bring up a bit of a red flag. In that he could just be having a great year at the perfect time. Don't get me wrong I like him alot and wouldn;t be upset at all if we drafted him at 9. I also wouldn;t be surprised if he never reached the potential they hoped for him by drafting him at 9.

I actually prefer a lot of college players to junior guys. They are more mature IMO and are willing to work harder. They pan out less, but to me they are better team guys.

Bryan Murray's draft record. Lupul and Brent in 2003. Getzlaf and Perry in 2003. Does anyone have the feeling Murray is staying away from the Euros? Size and character seems to be the premium with Murray so I fully expect the same in 2004. I would be very surprise if we drafted a Euro forward at #9.

Bryan Murray's draft record. Lupul and Brent in 2003. Getzlaf and Perry in 2003. Does anyone have the feeling Murray is staying away from the Euros? Size and character seems to be the premium with Murray so I fully expect the same in 2004. I would be very surprise if we drafted a Euro forward at #9.

Agreed, he is looking for size, heart and charachter mostly for the future of this team. However I think in the past two drafts with both our first two picks, the consensus was Lupul and Getzlaf all around the league. This year at number 9 there is not just one guy who can or should go there are a few that could go.

Perry was different in that the scouts obviously really wanted him to trade up to get him.

I still want best available in this spot. No matter who it is

Agreed, he is looking for size, heart and charachter mostly for the future of this team. However I think in the past two drafts with both our first two picks, the consensus was Lupul and Getzlaf all around the league.

Also factor in the weak Euro talent in both of those drafts... there wasn't a single one taken last year from 16 to 32 and only 4 total in the 1st round. It wasn't as lopsided 2 years ago but close.

Bottom line is Murray won't pass up a European if he thinks it is the right pick to make.

Also factor in the weak Euro talent in both of those drafts... there wasn't a single one taken last year from 16 to 32 and only 4 total in the 1st round. It wasn't as lopsided 2 years ago but close.

Bottom line is Murray won't pass up a European if he thinks it is the right pick to make.

Amen! What I think is that, even if it would be wonderful, I don't see Murray trading to move up in the draft to pick a Olesz or a Barker. At this point if Tukonen is available at #9 BM could draft him since he has top 5 talent, but more probably we'll end up picking one between Ladd, Thelen or Stafford.

I'm also curious about what we'll pick with the second rounder. I'm not sold on Schultz, I would rather prefer Meszaros if he's available (difficult).
Or, if he's available, what about drafting Dubnyk? I think we need a goalie once Gerber will go and Bryz will join Anaheim.

I'm also curious about what we'll pick with the second rounder. I'm not sold on Schultz, I would rather prefer Meszaros if he's available (difficult).
Or, if he's available, what about drafting Dubnyk? I think we need a goalie once Gerber will go and Bryz will join Anaheim.

I would go against drafting a goalie in the 2nd round. With the youth of Giguere and Bryzgalov whats the point in wasting such an early pick on a guy who may never honestly get a chance to shine in Anaheim but will be an injury call-up or depth guy mostly. I would look for the Ducks to draft a goalie in round 5 or 6.

I would go against drafting a goalie in the 2nd round. With the youth of Giguere and Bryzgalov whats the point in wasting such an early pick on a guy who may never honestly get a chance to shine in Anaheim but will be an injury call-up or depth guy mostly. I would look for the Ducks to draft a goalie in round 5 or 6.

I respectfully disagree. It usually takes 5 years to develop a goaltender. Well with the new CBA coming out, the age for UFA might be as low as 28 years of age. In 5 years, the Ducks may not have either Giguere or Bryzgalov on the team anymore. It would be wise to develop a top talent who can take over. Anyone remember the old days when our top goaltender prospect was Tom Askey. Well I do and I don't want to relive those days.

Anyone remember the old days when our top goaltender prospect was Tom Askey.

THOSE were days! :lol :joker: :lol:

I would use our second rounder only if Dubnyk is still available, if not I would like to pick a d-man.

I respectfully disagree. It usually takes 5 years to develop a goaltender. Well with the new CBA coming out, the age for UFA might be as low as 28 years of age. In 5 years, the Ducks may not have either Giguere or Bryzgalov on the team anymore. It would be wise to develop a top talent who can take over. Anyone remember the old days when our top goaltender prospect was Tom Askey. Well I do and I don't want to relive those days.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. The league is overwhelmed with goaltending and goaltending prospects. And I won't base my opinion on specualtion that the CBA will drop the UFA age. If we didn't draft a goaltender in any round this draft, we would still be fine without a goaltending prospect. Because a deal can still be made to acquire one down the road.

You could also make the argument that BM might let one of Giguere or Bryz walk at the new UFA age, but not both. I just don't think it is worth wasting a top pick on at this point. I'd much rather have a d-man in the 2nd round than a goaltender.

I'd much rather have a d-man in the 2nd round than a goaltender.

I agree!!! :banana:

Gerber was drafted in the 8th round in 2001. ::: raising shoulders ::: No real need to draft a netminder in the 2nd round, but it's nice to have scouts who know what they're doing. Great find with Gerber! And hopefully we can say the same with Corey Perry.

The league is overwhelmed with goaltending and goaltending prospects. And I won't base my opinion on specualtion that the CBA will drop the UFA age. If we didn't draft a goaltender in any round this draft, we would still be fine without a goaltending prospect. Because a deal can still be made to acquire one down the road.

1) We don't know the market next year on goaltender, let alone three years from now. There's going to be alot of retirements and changes resulting from the CBA.

2) Even today, who's on the market who the Ducks can develop into a #1? Just because there are alot of journeyman on the market doesn't necessarily mean I want any of them. I would much rather use a top pick and secure the future rather than wait and trade a top young asset on the team to get someone later on. The Ducks were fortunate with Giguere because of the expansion draft. I don't see the same thing happen post-CBA 04.

1) We don't know the market next year on goaltender, let alone three years from now. There's going to be alot of retirements and changes resulting from the CBA.

2) Even today, who's on the market who the Ducks can develop into a #1? Just because there are alot of journeyman on the market doesn't necessarily mean I want any of them. I would much rather use a top pick and secure the future rather than wait and trade a top young asset on the team to get someone later on. The Ducks were fortunate with Giguere because of the expansion draft. I don't see the same thing happen post-CBA 04.

Well we will just again agree to disagree. Drafting a goalie in the 2nd round is not needed at this point. If Bm and crew feels a goalie is the best available then they will draft one, but as far as need I think goaltending is at the bottom of the list for this team as far as need goes.

Well we will just again agree to disagree.

Agreed....but I'm right of course. :)

Save the goalies for the later rounds. Look at Euro goalies drafted late: Nabokov, Checkmanek, Gerber, Nurminen, the list goes on. Add in the fact that WE DON'T NEED A GOALIE, and that's why we don't take Dubnyk.

Save the goalies for the later rounds. Look at Euro goalies drafted late: Nabokov, Checkmanek, Gerber, Nurminen, the list goes on. Add in the fact that WE DON'T NEED A GOALIE, and that's why we don't take Dubnyk.

I agree with your basic point that we don't have to draft a goalie in the early rounds. However, I'm not as sure that "WE DON'T NEED A GOALIE". Gerber is as good as gone. If the reports I've read about Bryzgalov "imploding" in a recent game against Houston are true---supposedly, he stormed out of the net, skated over to the bench and, in essence tried to take himself out of the game after giving up a few "soft" goals---he may not have the mental makeup to cut it in the NHL.

I agree with your basic point that we don't have to draft a goalie in the early rounds. However, I'm not as sure that "WE DON'T NEED A GOALIE". Gerber is as good as gone. If the reports I've read about Bryzgalov "imploding" in a recent game against Houston are true---supposedly, he stormed out of the net, skated over to the bench and, in essence tried to take himself out of the game after giving up a few "soft" goals---he may not have the mental makeup to cut it in the NHL.

One blow-up doesn't make a career. He did awesome against the Yotes this year, and should be a good back-up. The "we don't need a goalie" remark was incorrect, though. I should've said we don't need a franchise goalie, or even a starting goalie at the moment.

And if he does that in a game in the NHL he will lose the team. He has the physical tools but apparantly not the mental ones needed to succeed.

Sounds like Roman Cechmanek does it not?

Yeah. It's identical. Let's dump him right now.