Theorizing: Barker for Hiller

Just curious how many of this team are really happy with our D?

Would you be willing to bet the farm on Jiggy, trade Hiller + someoen like Mikkelson/Festerling/Brookbank for Barker and Chicago's backup goalie Niemi.

This would allow Boynton and Sbisa/kid d-man to be a bottom pairing defense with Niedermayer, Barker, Whitney and the Wiz taking the top 4 minutes.

Thoughts?

Our top 3 defensemen are more than sufficient, but our bottom 3 are questionable. I think as long as our D meshes well and players like Boynton don't try and do much, they will be fine. Play with this team til the deadline, then trade for a rental D-man, keep Hiller and Jiggy.

I'd definately do it, I have no doubts that Jiggy will come in next year and win the number 1 role back.

Giguere for Kaberle. Assuming no trade clauses, yadda yadda.

A few reasons I consider making this move is:

1) Hiller may likely be gone after next year anyways. If we don't move Jiggy, how can we possibly keep him?

2) Scotty is likely gone next year. Its a big leap of faith for me to imagine Whitney/Wiz/Sbisa/Mitera/et.al get the job done the following year

Why Chicago does this

1) Chicago is win now. There is a lot of question marks about Huet and Hiller has already proven to be a better option come play off time.

2) They need long term cap space. Hiller being a UFA next year gives them flexibility.

3) Mikkelson/Festerling give them long term cheap options on the blue line.

Hiller could get a much better return than that.

Considering what UFAs goalies are out there, I'd be surprised.

Hiller could get a much better return than that.

Than Barker??? Former top-3 pick, proven top-4 performer, still extremely young. I know there are some on the board that aren't fans, but he's given no reason to suggest that he won't live up to his potential as a top-3 defenseman.

Hiller might, MIGHT be a legit starting goaltender, but I highly doubt his value is higher than Barker's. Potential starters are a dime a dozen it seems...legit top-four d-men with potential for top-pairings are much more rare.

I'm pro-Barker biased,clearly, so I'd strongly consider it.

This team already bet the farm on JSG, that's been a problem for awhile now.

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Jiggy goes before Hiller.. Honestly, I think we have a new Franchise Goalie! If there was a trade for Jiggy. I hope Murray does better then Barker.

First Post!


Welcome.

Definitely an interesting proposal. I always thought Barker would have been an interesting addition a couple of seasons ago when people were starting to call him a bust. Now he's emerged as a top 4 d-man and we could use one. However, looking at our current blueline, IMO the most obvious need is grit. Barker is by no means soft, but we have two left-handed D-men in Nieds and Whitney who fill the same type of role as Barker. We would be better served dealing for a shot-blocking, stay-at-home guy who is suited for a shutdown pairing. If Ottawa hadn't acquired Leclaire at the deadline, a swap involving Hiller and Volchenkov would have been perfect.

Hiller could get a much better return than that.
Goalies just don't seem to have much trade value. Few teams need them when other teams are shopping them, and there's still UFA options out there. Just look at Bryzgalov.


As for Barker, he looks to be better than I expected. But more of an offensive type. I guess we could use some of that after Scotty retires, but we don't really need it now with Whitney and Niedermayer.

But why does Chicago acquire a goalie without getting rid of Huet? And we sure as hell don't want him. Hiller might be a tad too old to fit in timewise with Giguere, but we don't really have much else.


Giguere/Hiller is kind of interesting. I would be confident betting the farm on Jiggy this year. I think he'll come back. But how many more years can we count on him? What do we do afterward?

Giguere/Hiller is kind of interesting. I would be confident betting the farm on Jiggy this year. I think he'll come back. But how many more years can we count on him? What do we do afterward?


I don't see why he doesn't have at least 4-5 good years left, goalies tend to play at a high level until their late 30s and in some cases early 40s.

I don't know why everyone is so keen to hand Hiller the starting role and trade Giguere, other than last season he's been a top 5 goalie in the NHL and while Hiller was solid down the stretch for us there is no guarantee he can put up the same numbers over the course of a full season.

Id be more interested in a physical defensman than a Barker type, like I think Snark alluded to. Also, it still adds salary, something we definitely cant do right now.

Than Barker??? Former top-3 pick, proven top-4 performer, still extremely young. I know there are some on the board that aren't fans, but he's given no reason to suggest that he won't live up to his potential as a top-3 defenseman.

Hiller might, MIGHT be a legit starting goaltender, but I highly doubt his value is higher than Barker's. Potential starters are a dime a dozen it seems...legit top-four d-men with potential for top-pairings are much more rare.

I'm pro-Barker biased,clearly, so I'd strongly consider it.

100% agreed, Ducks would be lucky to get Barker for Hiller.

Its to big of a risk to put the team on JSG's back. Hillers vaule is high right now for a reason. Hes a good goalie and we will regret trading him for years to come if we did make this move.

Giguere for Kaberle. Assuming no trade clauses, yadda yadda.

I'm sure Toronto would do that... :shakehead

Get real.

First Post!

Jiggy goes before Hiller.. Honestly, I think we have a new Franchise Goalie! If there was a trade for Jiggy. I hope Murray does better then Barker.

Jiggy won't net much of a return, but I do agree we have a new franchise goalie.

Id be more interested in a physical defensman than a Barker type, like I think Snark alluded to. Also, it still adds salary, something we definitely cant do right now.

I think Chicago does this because they need to clear cap space after this year and need insurance for Huet.

Huet is in the same boat as Jiggy, no one touches him no matter what.

Jiggy won't net much of a return, but I do agree we have a new franchise goalie.

That's what Philadelphia thought when Boucher took them to the conference finals a few years ago. Look how that turned out.

I'm sure Toronto would do that... :shakehead

Get real.

Burke seems hellbent on dealing him for some reason. They have shored up their defense to the point of it being very scary. A stanley cup winning goaltender that Burke is familiar with and already procured his goaltending consultant would really make them a team that could surprise in the East.

Burke seems hellbent on dealing him for some reason. They have shored up their defense to the point of it being very scary. A stanley cup winning goaltender that Burke is familiar with and already procured his goaltending consultant would really make them a team that could surprise in the East.

I doubt it. When Burke mentioned that he might be interested in Jiggy he said it would be if they didn't sign that goalie from Europe.

I'm on the side of Giggy will have a great rebound this season, so I'd be very open to moving Hiller while his value is high. I like Barker, but also think we'd be better right now with a shutdown Top-4 guy for this season.

What I don't like about getting rid of either one is, we don't have another goalie just waiting to step in.

It's going to be like the Pronger/Niedermayer thing. We dump Pronger and we have Scott for one more year than neither is here.

The most apt comment on this thread is that "goalies don't have a lot of trade value." There's a good reason for that. Most of them are only as good as the team in front of them, and 90% of them fluctuate wildly in performance.

I'm not sold on Hiller as a franchise goalie, because I think a franchise goalie is a rare thing. There are a number of young goaltenders who have had a good season or two before slipping back into mediocrity. Only a handful of goaltenders show the ability to carry a starter's load and play well consistently over a period of years. Fortunate for us that Giguere was one of them. Hiller still has to prove that he is.

I don't see why he doesn't have at least 4-5 good years left, goalies tend to play at a high level until their late 30s and in some cases early 40s.
On one hand, Giguere's technical, meaning slowing of his reflexes probably isn't as big a deal as a more reaction-based goalie.

On the other hand, there was a kind of interesting piece in SI earlier this season about how butterfly goalies seem to wear out faster. Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/david_epstein/03/18/butterfly.hip.injuries/index.html) (interestingly, it's longer than I remembered it). Perhaps the act of dropping down into the stance repeatedly is hell on your hips and back. And Giguere has already been kind of injury prone before.

On one hand, Giguere's technical, meaning slowing of his reflexes probably isn't as big a deal as a more reaction-based goalie.

On the other hand, there was a kind of interesting piece in SI earlier this season about how butterfly goalies seem to wear out faster. Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/david_epstein/03/18/butterfly.hip.injuries/index.html) (interestingly, it's longer than I remembered it). Perhaps the act of dropping down into the stance repeatedly is hell on your hips and back. And Giguere has already been kind of injury prone before.

Yeah because he's injury prone I took a more conservative approach by guessing 4-5 years which would only take him to 36-37. Patrick Roy, whose GP per season and style are remarkably comparable to Giguere played at a high level until the age of 38 before retiring, so I don't see why Giguere can't do the same (although obviously he won't be as good as Roy was).

Yeah because he's injury prone I took a more conservative approach by guessing 4-5 years which would only take him to 36-37. Patrick Roy, whose GP per season and style are remarkably comparable to Giguere played at a high level until the age of 38 before retiring, so I don't see why Giguere can't do the same (although obviously he won't be as good as Roy was).
Conservative to me (with injuries taken into account) would be like 35. Just my guess though.

I guess the question is then is 3 years of Giguere (bounced back, + Hiller trade value) more worth it or is however many years of Hiller more worth it (subtracting risk of bust, likeliness to not improve any further, and likeliness he even stays when his contract is up sans Allaire)?

Conservative to me (with injuries taken into account) would be like 35. Just my guess though.

I guess the question is then is 3 years of Giguere (bounced back, + Hiller trade value) more worth it or is however many years of Hiller more worth it (subtracting risk of bust, likeliness to not improve any further, and likeliness he even stays when his contract is up sans Allaire)?
I don't think we can answer that without seeing more from Hiller. Which we won't, if Giguere bounces back. It's a sucky situation, especially when you combine it with the salary situation in 10-11.

I don't think we can answer that without seeing more from Hiller. Which we won't, if Giguere bounces back. It's a sucky situation, especially when you combine it with the salary situation in 10-11.
We can't answer it. But the GM needs to take a guess soon, possibly by the end of training camp. That's why he gets paid (or fired), to make decisions on incomplete information.

That salary situation and the falling cap is going to make for one crazy offseason though.

My guess is Murray would prefer to deal Giguere and lock up Hiller at a reasonable(ish) price before he has a brilliant season.

His past season was pretty good.. albeit not brilliant but definitely good
As for his postseason, although his stats scream brilliant i think it was not the case.. just beefed up with all the outside shots because of the great d that we had this past playoff run..
I dont think hiller will ever have a "brilliant" season but i think hes capable of contributing quite steadily at this rate. Obviously thats a personal opinion cause i have nothing to back it up with :)