Are Perry's numbers improved by playing with Getz?

There was a poll on the main board as to who did better in the 2003 draft first round, us or the Flyers. I was bored today so I thought I'd take a look at the entire 2003 draft first round. (I was very bored). The players taken are nearly all NHL regulars now which is pretty damn impressive.

I did some maths and at the end felt compelled to make a nice little graph to compare all of the forwards taken. (A score of 1.00 in a category means that the player has performed exactly at the average level of this group of players. The higher the score, the better a player has performed)

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1032/71245271.png

What is noticeable is that Ryan Getzlaf (#14) stands out in all categories. He ranks first in points per game and power play points per 60 minutes (his numbers on the PP are amazing), and second in even strength points per 60 minutes. I kind of expected this to be the case

What I didn't expect to see was the numbers for Corey Perry (#21). He ranks tied 7th in points per game, 6th in even strength points per 60 minutes and 5th in power play points per 60 minutes

His numbers sit very close to those of Jeff Carter (#7) and Mike Richards (#17), a bit below Eric Staal (#1), an equal distance above Milan Michalek (#5). These players are all (with the probable exception of Michalek) capable of carrying their own lines

I guess what I want to know looking at the finished product is; given the company he's keeping with the other players in this draft, do people think Perry's numbers have been affected by Getz? And if so, which forwards on the lovely graph do you think Perry would be comparable to if he weren't playing with Getz?

Either way, we had an amazing draft, thanks Bryan Murray!

(For reference the forwards in order are, Staal, Horton, Zherdev, Vanek, Michalek, Kostitsyn, Carter, Jessiman, Brown, Nilsson, Bernier, Parise, Fehr, Getzlaf, Pouliout, Kesler, Richards, Stewart, Boyle, Tambellini, Perry, Eaves)

There's no question his numbers are improved by Getzlaf. However, who's numbers wouldn't be improved? Getzlaf is one of the best players in the leauge, so it's a given that anyone who plays with him will have their numbers go up. Perry is still a very good player, but he's no where near the talent Getzlaf is, and the fact that they make identical salaries is laughable. I think if Perry was playing on a different line then Getzlaf during his time with the Ducks, he would have only received around 3-4 million per season.

I'll ruminate on your question later, but the thing that strikes me is that all 3 of Perry's numbers are the same. Meaning he scores at a very consistent rate at both ES and PP (and consequently overall), as compared to the average.

And LOL at Jessiman, and the Kings draft (Brown, Tambellini, and Boyle).

I think it's fair to say Perry's numbers are improved by Getzlaf, but ain't Getzlaf's improved by Perry? Getzlaf is a play maker and Perry is a goal scorer. Drafting two of the best and letting gain chemistry for 4 years is what were seeing now. I think Getzlaf is the better player, but they both help each other.

I think it's fair to say Perry's numbers are improved by Getzlaf, but ain't Getzlaf's improved by Perry? Getzlaf is a play maker and Perry is a goal scorer. Drafting two of the best and letting gain chemistry for 4 years is what were seeing now. I think Getzlaf is the better player, but they both help each other.

I agree that the chemistry helps. However, Getzlaf helps Perry way more then the other way around. I think if the two were split up, Getzlaf's numbers would be near what he had with Perry, maybe a little less, but Perry's would drop significantly.

I think if Perry was playing on a different line then Getzlaf during his time with the Ducks, he would have only received around 3-4 million per season.

I agree. As much as I like Perry, I think he's a tad overpaid.

However, it depends who you compare him with. If you look at Ryan Smyth, Dustin Penner, or Dany Heatley, then you have to be happy with his #.

Really, Getzlaf is just hugely underpaid. Signing him to an extension was quickly after Penner left was the smartest thing Burke could have done.

He should be top 5 in salary in his next contract.

I agree. As much as I like Perry, I think he's a tad overpaid.

However, it depends who you compare him with. If you look at Ryan Smyth, Dustin Penner, or Dany Heatley, then you have to be happy with his #.

Really, Getzlaf is just hugely underpaid. Signing him to an extension was quickly after Penner left was the smartest thing Burke could have done.

He should be top 5 in salary in his next contract.

Overpaid? 72 points in 80 games--32 being goals. During the playoffs, 14 points in 13 games--8 being goals. Perry agitates the other team, goes hard to the net, and is not afraid to make a big hit or drop the gloves.

Conclusion: Far from overpaid.

Perry creates a lot of his own chances, and buries probably 25% of his golden opportunities. Hell, Getzlaf could probably have a 110+ pt season if Perry capitalized on even half of his scoring chances.

As for the question, they both create a lot of chances, Perry does by working hard and going to the net. Getzlaf on the other hand uses his slick hands, size and incredible vision. Obviously Getzlaf is better, but Perry creates a lot on his own too. They both benefit from eachother, but it isn't like a Thorton/Cheechoo relationship.

Perry creates a lot of his own chances, and buries probably 25% of his golden opportunities. Hell, Getzlaf could probably have a 110+ pt season if Perry capitalized on even half of his scoring chances.

Getzy could also have 110+ points if he actually shot on his own scoring chances.

As for the question at hand, ofcourse Perry benefits from playing with Getzy but he also makes Getzlafs play better with his boardwork. He is also the only player in the team who consistently goes to the net and screens the goalie.

Getzy could also have 110+ points if he actually shot on his own scoring chances.

As for the question at hand, ofcourse Perry benefits from playing with Getzy but he also makes Getzlafs play better with his boardwork. He is also the only player in the team who consistently goes to the net and screens the goalie.

Whoa, you don't like his 1 on 1 move of turning back and waiting for the late man!

I wish Getzlaf used his shot more often. He is a great passer, but there have been chances where he hesitates to shoot. I'd love to see him take more chances and just blast that puck.

I wish Getzlaf used his shot more often. He is a great passer, but there have been chances where he hesitates to shoot. I'd love to see him take more chances and just blast that puck.

Getzlaf looks to pass when he's on a clear break away. :laugh:

Coaching staff agrees with you lol
They've told him to shoot more as well

Remember the playoffs two years ago when the Ducks were without Perry for a extended period of time and were lacking scoring... then Perry up and comes BAM! Scores. It's mutual in their work. Getz grinds and passes... Perry grinds and snipes. But they both know their own tendencies.

DUH... but Getzlaf is underpaid and Perry is right where be should be at. Perry is a top 3 player on every team.

I'll ruminate on your question later, but the thing that strikes me is that all 3 of Perry's numbers are the same. Meaning he scores at a very consistent rate at both ES and PP (and consequently overall), as compared to the average.

And LOL at Jessiman, and the Kings draft (Brown, Tambellini, and Boyle).

You're right, and he's the only player that shows a tight grouping of the three numbers

Average PPG = 0.62
Perry PPG = 0.68
Ratio = 1.09

Average EVP/60 = 1.97
Perry EVP/60 = 2.14
Ratio = 1.09

Average PPP/60 = 4.30
Perry PPP/60 = 4.78
Ratio = 1.11

Dustin Brown seems like a solid enough pick but the other two are pretty horrible. For example, Tambellini has spent over 90 minutes on the power play (90:34) and Boyle has spent over 29 minutes on the power play (29:31). Neither of them have a power play point to their name. They're small sample sizes but I'd have expected sheer luck to dictate they pick up at least one point

Perry's numbers are improved by Getzlaf, but not inflated. Perry scores most of his goals around the crease. All Perry needs to score is someone who can get the puck near the net and he supplies the dirty work. I think it's a misconception that Perry wouldn't be effective without Getzlaf, Perry's goals come from hard work and as long as he works hard, even on a line with someone else, he'll still score points.

Remember the playoffs two years ago when the Ducks were without Perry for a extended period of time and were lacking scoring... then Perry up and comes BAM! Scores. It's mutual in their work. Getz grinds and passes... Perry grinds and snipes. But they both know their own tendencies.

mutual as in even? No way. It's not a Thornton, cheecho thing, but it's not close. Do you remember what happened when the two were split up last season? Perry does a lot on his own, but he benefits way more from Getzlaf then vice versa. Getzlaf attracts defenders off of him, great passes, and bumps and grinds as much as Perry. IMO Perry can not carry his own line like Getzlaf does. He's a great player, but he's overrated a little bit IMO. Getzlaf's underpayment makes Perry look like he's vastly overpaid, but he's not extremely overpaid or anything.

Man....Shea Weber at #49...the Preds could have had such a sick draft...Phaneuf and Weber? Carter and Weber? etc.

For where he was taken, Weber may be the best pick of the draft so to speak.

Perry has been developing a nice snap shot recently and is becoming a pretty good puck deflector. It's nice seeing him evolve and show that he can score outside the crease.

Perry is a very good player by himself. I think he's quite underrated by most non-Ducks fans because they hate his guts so much. He's a good forechecker, and he has good offensive anticipation. He just knows where the puck is going to be, and as long as it isn't too far away from him (or he doesn't trip over himself) he'll be there to fight for it.

He has a knack for the net, and a good shot. Well sort of. He gets in glorious scoring position, and he can shoot the puck really well (one of 2 or 3 guys on the team who can beat a goalie straight up). But he does flub it a lot. But think about his career in London, where he was the big cog on an offensive machine, without Getz.


I think Getzlaf does improve his point totals because a) Getzlaf plays a similar style, making that line mesh real well and have those dominating offensive forechecking shifts and b) when Perry gets into the dirty zone in the crease and in goalscoring position, Getzlaf gets him the puck. But I think Perry could play with a number of gifted playmakers and still do quite well.

The converse is that Getzlaf's point totals are also boosted by Perry. Again with the long offensive shifts, but also because Getzlaf needs somebody to shoot the puck since he sure as hell won't.

And I just love how he'll do anything to piss off the goalies. Flop on them, whack them, or insult their mamas.

And then just straight up lie about it in the paper the next day. Perry's 19 kinds of awesome.

It's Ducks fans as well who under appreciate him too in their ever growing love of Ryan Getzlaf. Even as everybody has been well aware Perry plays a very important role in our offense, I think he's been written off a bit for playing with Getzlaf. He falls over, he complains to the ref, he takes a stupid penalty and all of the sudden people will start looking for an excuse to give even more credit to Getzlaf.

I agree that the chemistry helps. However, Getzlaf helps Perry way more then the other way around. I think if the two were split up, Getzlaf's numbers would be near what he had with Perry, maybe a little less, but Perry's would drop significantly.

Basically this attitude towards Perry.

I think you can plug Perry into most top lines around the NHL and he would give you similar numbers. Getzlaf and Perry have basically been a two-man wrecking crew at times. They basically have been operating without a good third compliment since the last two weeks of the season when Bobby Ryan was placed on the top line. Put Perry on a well balanced top line of most any other NHL team and I doubt he has a significant drop off. Watch Perry play a season with both Bobby and Getzlaf and then there is probably a bigger drop off if you take him off.

Didn't anybody ever notice how much more involved Perry was on offense than let's say Kunitz. Perry does so many little things right, he is so good on the boards and is a key to our top line's ability to produce those long cycles with his passing ability and anticipation.

I looked up who was assisting Perry on his goals last year on hockey-reference and Getzlaf was the primary assist on only 7 of Perry's 32 goals. Now that's not to say Getzlaf only has an impact when he has a primary assist or even a secondary assist, but I think that statistic still says something. On the flip side Perry had the primary assist on 10 of Getzlaf's 25 goals.

Perry has put up huge numbers and won a championship without Getzlaf. The reverse isn't true.

No doubt Perry is helped by having a dominant presence at center, but no more than anyone would be. Perry makes his own contribution to that line, which he could make anywhere, under any circumstances. He is big (though not graceful or well balanced, he is powerful) and fearless, and his stickhandling skills in close combined with his vision and shot could carry an offensive line.

We're fortunate to have 2 players (and probably 3) like that on our team. Some don't even have one.

Perry is a very good player by himself. I think he's quite underrated by most non-Ducks fans because they hate his guts so much. He's a good forechecker, and he has good offensive anticipation. He just knows where the puck is going to be, and as long as it isn't too far away from him (or he doesn't trip over himself) he'll be there to fight for it.

He has a knack for the net, and a good shot. Well sort of. He gets in glorious scoring position, and he can shoot the puck really well (one of 2 or 3 guys on the team who can beat a goalie straight up). But he does flub it a lot. But think about his career in London, where he was the big cog on an offensive machine, without Getz.


I think Getzlaf does improve his point totals because a) Getzlaf plays a similar style, making that line mesh real well and have those dominating offensive forechecking shifts and b) when Perry gets into the dirty zone in the crease and in goalscoring position, Getzlaf gets him the puck. But I think Perry could play with a number of gifted playmakers and still do quite well.

The converse is that Getzlaf's point totals are also boosted by Perry. Again with the long offensive shifts, but also because Getzlaf needs somebody to shoot the puck since he sure as hell won't.

And I just love how he'll do anything to piss off the goalies. Flop on them, whack them, or insult their mamas.

Yea, or tell the forwards there "gonna get it" and then plow the goalie. That has to be one of the best things ever caught on players wearing mics in their equipment.

yeah probably, but it still doesn't beat this though:
-Ns14hRqwY8

I looked up who was assisting Perry on his goals last year on hockey-reference and Getzlaf was the primary assist on only 7 of Perry's 32 goals. Now that's not to say Getzlaf only has an impact when he has a primary assist or even a secondary assist, but I think that statistic still says something. On the flip side Perry had the primary assist on 10 of Getzlaf's 25 goals.
Something that might be interesting to look at is how many of those Getzlaf secondary assists (and I think there's quite a few of them) result from a "semi-primary" assist. You'd need to watch all the goals, but how many were where Getzlaf fed ____ for a high-quality shot, and this shot (because of its quality) resulted in a rebound that Perry scored on (perhaps excluding rebounds judged to be from poor quality scoring shots/scoring chances). But I'm too lazy to do it, so we might never know.

The low Getzlaf primary assist total is kind of surprising. I feel like in years past it's been a higher proportion. But thinking back, maybe it's not. While Perry can score on snipes from Getzlaf feeds, this gets into his terrible puck luck this season. But he also scores a lot with rebound/crease scrum goals.

But that brings up another good point for "Perry could score a lot without Getzlaf." Those rebound and scrum goals could probably be scored at a similar rate with any competent offensive line, and not necessarily needing a Getzlaf.

I think there were 10 or 13 secondary if I remember correctly. With Perry I think at 7. I know Getzlaf overall had a few more total assists for Perry than vice versa, but I don't think it's as much of a blow out as people think. Getzlaf is the better player for sure, but a big reason is how good he is on the PP. He's always way up near the top of the league in PP assists. Centers always seem to get a few more points just by the virtue of playing that position, nothing crazy, but I just think Perry at least deserves a little more credit.

Something that might be interesting to look at is how many of those Getzlaf secondary assists (and I think there's quite a few of them) result from a "semi-primary" assist. You'd need to watch all the goals, but how many were where Getzlaf fed ____ for a high-quality shot, and this shot (because of its quality) resulted in a rebound that Perry scored on (perhaps excluding rebounds judged to be from poor quality scoring shots/scoring chances). But I'm too lazy to do it, so we might never know.

Perry goals with Getz second assists:

4/5/09 - Getzlaf takes a quick pass in the d zone from Pronger and moves up the right side. He drives to the middle of the ice once he reaches center and leaves the puck behind, allowing a streaking Selanne to grab it and move past the defenders. Selanne makes his way from the right towards the slot and loses the puck on a poke check but accidentally kicks it towards the middle. Perry collects the puck and fires in one motion past a motionless Boucher.

4/2/09 - Getzlaf grabs a loose puck on the left side boards in the nucks zone and drives to the front of the net, shooting and leaving a rebound. Brown takes a shot at the loose puck which deflects to Perry, who lifts it over Luongo.

2/21/09 - Getzlaf passes the puck back to S Nieds in the neutral zone who misses it. Nieds skates back almost to the Ducks goal line, turns and fires the puck up to Perry at the far blue line, who skates in and beats Mason with a wrist shot between the legs.

2/5/09 - Perry wins a board battle on the right side in the defensive zone, tipping the puck to Getzlaf. Getz quickly makes a short pass to Kunitz who has speed leaving the zone. Kunitz fumbles the puck at center ice and the Preds defense closes on him. Perry steals the puck from Kunitz, skates wide right around 3 flatfooted Preds defenders, and dekes Rinne to put the puck in under his pads.

1/2/09 - Getz wins a faceoff on the right side circle in the flyers zone. Perry grabs the puck and circles behind the net where he loses the puck on a check from Vaananen. Kunitz picks up the loose puck and skates to the left side below the goal line, drawing defenders before making a no-look drop pass to Perry who is at the left side of the net. Perry does weird, complicated double spin and puts the puck past Biron on the far side from about 3 inches out.

12/19/08 - Awesome goal on the power play. Getz fires a slap pass in the high left slot to Ryan, who immediately spins to his left and feeds Perry for a tap-in redirection past Roloson.

11/22/08 - Getzlaf carries the puck into the zone from center and dishes on the right side to Perry, who circles behind the net and finds Selanne on the left circle. Selanne backs up and stickhandles while Perry continues around the net to the bottom of the left circle. Selanne's pass beats a defender and creates a very low 2-on-1 with Perry and Getzlaf. Perry uses Getz as a decoy and beats Turco with a wrist shot.

11/16/08 - Perry, Ryan, and Getz are left-center-right crossing the offensive blueline simultaneously, Getz with the puck. Ryan drives to the net pulling a defender with him while Huskins remains high, creating a 3-on-1. Getz passes to Perry who makes a touch pass to Huskins. Huskins' one-timer is saved by Ersberg but Perry flips the rebound over his pad for a power play goal.

11/5/08 - Kunitz wanders up and down the left side of the offensive zone looking for a passing option. He exchanges with Getz behind the net who immediately charges out front and starts jamming. Perry is there too, and is credited with the goal. Hard to see what happened without a replay.

That's it, just 9 of them. Of those, I'd say thee can be called "semi-primary" as you described. The rest are just what you'd expect from a top line center - winning faceoffs and keying the neutral zone transition. Perry did most of this himself.

That puts it at exactly half of Perry's goals were assisted by Getzlaf, far less than I would have thought.

yeah probably, but it still doesn't beat this though:
-Ns14hRqwY8


There was an intermission special on Prime Ticket once, and they were talking about Goal tenders masks. Bryz ended up showing his and pretty much said he was hero, that was a funny one too.

Yeah, he wanted to be a rich duck like Scrooge McDuck I think is what he said.

yeah probably, but it still doesn't beat this though:
-Ns14hRqwY8

God I miss his interviews. I hope our new Russian goalie is as unintentionally funny if he ever gets here. I miss the early Bryz interviews where he would understand about as much as I would if I had been interviewed in Japanese and he would just smile and laugh and shake his head which as we all know is the appropriate response if you don't understand something.

I use this method constantly when my wife asks me for something.

You purchased your wife from Japan?

Getz and Pers are the toughest Topline players in the West as far as I see it. I dont think they really care who Scores as long as it goes in.

Perry goals with Getz second assists:

4/5/09 - Getzlaf takes a quick pass in the d zone from Pronger and moves up the right side. He drives to the middle of the ice once he reaches center and leaves the puck behind, allowing a streaking Selanne to grab it and move past the defenders. Selanne makes his way from the right towards the slot and loses the puck on a poke check but accidentally kicks it towards the middle. Perry collects the puck and fires in one motion past a motionless Boucher.

4/2/09 - Getzlaf grabs a loose puck on the left side boards in the nucks zone and drives to the front of the net, shooting and leaving a rebound. Brown takes a shot at the loose puck which deflects to Perry, who lifts it over Luongo.

2/21/09 - Getzlaf passes the puck back to S Nieds in the neutral zone who misses it. Nieds skates back almost to the Ducks goal line, turns and fires the puck up to Perry at the far blue line, who skates in and beats Mason with a wrist shot between the legs.

2/5/09 - Perry wins a board battle on the right side in the defensive zone, tipping the puck to Getzlaf. Getz quickly makes a short pass to Kunitz who has speed leaving the zone. Kunitz fumbles the puck at center ice and the Preds defense closes on him. Perry steals the puck from Kunitz, skates wide right around 3 flatfooted Preds defenders, and dekes Rinne to put the puck in under his pads.

1/2/09 - Getz wins a faceoff on the right side circle in the flyers zone. Perry grabs the puck and circles behind the net where he loses the puck on a check from Vaananen. Kunitz picks up the loose puck and skates to the left side below the goal line, drawing defenders before making a no-look drop pass to Perry who is at the left side of the net. Perry does weird, complicated double spin and puts the puck past Biron on the far side from about 3 inches out.

12/19/08 - Awesome goal on the power play. Getz fires a slap pass in the high left slot to Ryan, who immediately spins to his left and feeds Perry for a tap-in redirection past Roloson.

11/22/08 - Getzlaf carries the puck into the zone from center and dishes on the right side to Perry, who circles behind the net and finds Selanne on the left circle. Selanne backs up and stickhandles while Perry continues around the net to the bottom of the left circle. Selanne's pass beats a defender and creates a very low 2-on-1 with Perry and Getzlaf. Perry uses Getz as a decoy and beats Turco with a wrist shot.

11/16/08 - Perry, Ryan, and Getz are left-center-right crossing the offensive blueline simultaneously, Getz with the puck. Ryan drives to the net pulling a defender with him while Huskins remains high, creating a 3-on-1. Getz passes to Perry who makes a touch pass to Huskins. Huskins' one-timer is saved by Ersberg but Perry flips the rebound over his pad for a power play goal.

11/5/08 - Kunitz wanders up and down the left side of the offensive zone looking for a passing option. He exchanges with Getz behind the net who immediately charges out front and starts jamming. Perry is there too, and is credited with the goal. Hard to see what happened without a replay.

That's it, just 9 of them. Of those, I'd say thee can be called "semi-primary" as you described. The rest are just what you'd expect from a top line center - winning faceoffs and keying the neutral zone transition. Perry did most of this himself.

That puts it at exactly half of Perry's goals were assisted by Getzlaf, far less than I would have thought.
Wow I didn't think anybody would take the time to actually do that. Strong work.

But those recaps really drive the point at how much Perry is contributing and not just leeching. In quite a few of those goals it's actually Perry doing the heavy lifting.

Wow I didn't think anybody would take the time to actually do that. Strong work.

But those recaps really drive the point at how much Perry is contributing and not just leeching. In quite a few of those goals it's actually Perry doing the heavy lifting.

Perry was born with a disregard for his own safety, which has become his greatest asset. Every line needs a player with an attribute similar to this. In 07 it was Perry, Kunitz, and to different extent Moen and Pahlsson, and this year players like Mike Brown and Bobby Ryan have the potential to become the current versions of those type of players.

You purchased your wife from Japan?

Yes she came with my dvd copy of Castle of Cagliostro.

Perry was born with a disregard for his own safety, which has become his greatest asset. Every line needs a player with an attribute similar to this. In 07 it was Perry, Kunitz, and to different extent Moen and Pahlsson, and this year players like Mike Brown and Bobby Ryan have the potential to become the current versions of those type of players.
That's certainly an admirable trait of Perry's. It does worry me a bit sometimes though. Especially with how he got lit up almost every shift the first year or two. But he's improved that a bit, as well as gotten bigger. So maybe it's fine now.

Yes she came with my dvd copy of Castle of Cagliostro.

There's a japanese couple a few doors down from me that has sex on their balcony. She makes the "ow-ow" jap porn noises, but she's always yelling instructions or laughing, which would kind of ruin it I think.

I think Perry would score around the same, as long as he had ice time.

Of course Getzlaf boosts his results, he's the 3rd best center in the game.

Perry has an incredible hockey mind. The little tricks he pulls around the net are brilliant. If he ever did beef up (i don't really see that happening) there would be no limit to the 'pain in the @ss' rating he would get.

I think Perry would score around the same, as long as he had ice time.

Of course Getzlaf boosts his results, he's the 3rd best center in the game.

Perry has an incredible hockey mind. The little tricks he pulls around the net are brilliant. If he ever did beef up (i don't really see that happening) there would be no limit to the 'pain in the @ss' rating he would get.

Ha, if he could back up his mouth he would get a better rating. Too bad he wasn't the size of Getzlaf, then he would be really scary.

There's a japanese couple a few doors down from me that has sex on their balcony. She makes the "ow-ow" jap porn noises, but she's always yelling instructions or laughing, which would kind of ruin it I think.

"makes sex"

in their culture it's called making sex or failing that "making sexy".

UCLA Yankee Cola.