Lets Chill Out (article)

for all of you guys who arent so happy with Lou sitting idle this offseason and maybe where we are going i suggest u read this article.

http://my.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?user_id=46867&post_id=7951

Pretty much all we have been talking about the last few days. Still a pretty good read though.

yeah no kidding, and it just put it all together so perfectly, convinced me that Lou wasnt going senile and hell by the end of it i had a nice big ole grin on my normally pessimistic face

Matt Corrente: Big solid defenseman with a mean streak.

Though that said steak and burst out laughing.

Who is this guy? Is he a credible sports writer? or is this just some guy with a blog that loves to talk.

I like the article, but I don't like the idea of sitting around as the rest of our division is loading up. That being said...if it means a couple of years of rebuilding and seasoning our prospects...then so be it.

Who is this guy? Is he a credible sports writer? or is this just some guy with a blog that loves to talk.

I like the article, but I don't like the idea of sitting around as the rest of our division is loading up. That being said...if it means a couple of years of rebuilding and seasoning our prospects...then so be it.
No one is suggesting rebuilding. It's a question of making the necessary roster changes.

No one is suggesting rebuilding. It's a question of making the necessary roster changes.

Agreed. This is not rebuilding, this is a roster shake-up to refocus the team and get rid of some of the dead weight. Rebuilding would be accompanied by a fire sale of the team's veterans for picks and prospects. As long as Lou is the GM, that is not happening.

I'm not upset we didn't sign anyone, not really sure anyone is.

I just can't believe we let go the vets we had and have done nothing to replace them...I also can't believe why anyone would have faith in any of our immediate youth.

No one is suggesting rebuilding. It's a question of making the necessary roster changes.

This would be very much a rebuilding phase. This team can't get out of the first round of the playoffs with the players they had. So it seems Lou is relying on the youth on the farm...that is rebuilding. But if infact the cap goes down...ya...the Devils are going to be in pretty good shape.

This would be very much a rebuilding phase. This team can't get out of the first round of the playoffs with the players they had. So it seems Lou is relying on the youth on the farm...that is rebuilding. But if infact the cap goes down...ya...the Devils are going to be in pretty good shape.
1999 was a "rebuilding" year, the same as this year is a "rebuilding" year. How successful the next year is going to be is entirely dependent on the players we need to step up actually stepping up.

1999 was a "rebuilding" year, the same as this year is a "rebuilding" year. How successful the next year is going to be is entirely dependent on the players we need to step up actually stepping up.

1999 You had guys breaking down the AHL Door to be here...

Morrison
1997-98 Albany River Rats AHL 72 35 49 84 44
1997-98 New Jersey Devils NHL 11 5 4 9

He performed his way here!

Madden Kicked the door open as well
1997-98 Albany River Rats AHL 74 20 36 56 40 13 3 13 16 14
1998-99 New Jersey Devils NHL 4 0 1 1 0 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Albany River Rats AHL 75 38 60 98 44 5 2 2 4 6


Honest question -- Who is kicking down the door to be here now???

1999 You had guys breaking down the AHL Door to be here...

Morrison
1997-98 Albany River Rats AHL 72 35 49 84 44
1997-98 New Jersey Devils NHL 11 5 4 9

He performed his way here!

Madden Kicked the door open as well
1997-98 Albany River Rats AHL 74 20 36 56 40 13 3 13 16 14
1998-99 New Jersey Devils NHL 4 0 1 1 0 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Albany River Rats AHL 75 38 60 98 44 5 2 2 4 6


Honest question -- Who is kicking down the door to be here now???

JimEIV, I agree with you to one extent and disagree on another. I do think that Bergfors and Pelley are suitable replacements for Madden and Gionta and the smarter way to go in terms of Cap Space and our future.

I do agree, however, that a Youth Movement might not necessarily be the best option if the team expects fans to show up next season without lower ticket prices lowered as well. And also we do not have enough young prospects to round out the team with a lot of open spots. Look at the roster on the website. There are 9 listed forwards, lol.


Lou is not stupid. He sees the same weaknessed we all do in the hockey club. He is not going to say we lack marquee prospects and young talent with NHL value. If he did he would have no room to negotiate trades. He is going to promote them and praise them to raise their value in the trade market.

I am one that thinks Lou is not done this offseason.

I personally think we will see some roster spots filled with some of our young players like Bergfors, Pelley and Leblond.

But I also think Lou is planning on making a trade (and a relatively big trade and taking on some salary in the process).

They should have a CUP like the Stanley Cup for the team in best shape if the Cap goes down. Then the Devils would be in contention to win this CUP. They could name this CUP the Lou Lamoriello Cup.

They should have a CUP like the Stanley Cup for the team in best shape if the Cap goes down. Then the Devils would be in contention to win this CUP. They could name this CUP the Lou Lamoriello Cup.

i dont think anyone responded to your most recent post because everyone has you blocked.

No one is suggesting rebuilding. It's a question of making the necessary roster changes.

definitely wanted a 2nd line center. no biggie. Definitely excited about next season, always am, hopefully one of our rookies makes an amazing breakthrough.

1999 You had guys breaking down the AHL Door to be here...

Morrison
1997-98 Albany River Rats AHL 72 35 49 84 44
1997-98 New Jersey Devils NHL 11 5 4 9

He performed his way here!

Madden Kicked the door open as well
1997-98 Albany River Rats AHL 74 20 36 56 40 13 3 13 16 14
1998-99 New Jersey Devils NHL 4 0 1 1 0 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Albany River Rats AHL 75 38 60 98 44 5 2 2 4 6


Honest question -- Who is kicking down the door to be here now???

Even Mike Mottau played his way here

2005-2006 Peoria Rivermen-AHL 76 8 48 56 2
2006-2007 Lowell Devils-AHL 43 1 26 27 -5



Mike Mottau had 56 points in 76 games, and John Madden had 98 in 75 games. Bergfors best season in the AHL was last year and he had 51 points in 66 games, while Pelley put up 38 in 75...There's a 60 point difference between Pelley's best offensive season and Maddens. While I think it's important that Pelley and Bergfors see some time with the big club next year in no way do I expect them to "replace" Madden and Gionta at all. I think Pelley at best next year will be an OK 4th line center, and Bergfors at best next season could hopefully be a 15-15 guy probably playing on the bottom lines. Im not saying Bergfors will never be a top six guy, I just think it'll take him quite some time before he is. Parise's and Gionta's first season in the NHL weren't too great. Im sure Bergfors first season in the NHL won't be too great either, unfortunately.

Even Mike Mottau played his way here

2005-2006 Peoria Rivermen-AHL 76 8 48 56 2
2006-2007 Lowell Devils-AHL 43 1 26 27 -5



Mike Mottau had 56 points in 76 games, and John Madden had 98 in 75 games. Bergfors best season in the AHL was last year and he had 51 points in 66 games, while Pelley put up 38 in 75...There's a 60 point difference between Pelley's best offensive season and Maddens. While I think it's important that Pelley and Bergfors see some time with the big club next year in no way do I expect them to "replace" Madden and Gionta at all. I think Pelley at best next year will be an OK 4th line center, and Bergfors at best next season could hopefully be a 15-15 guy probably playing on the bottom lines. Im not saying Bergfors will never be a top six guy, I just think it'll take him quite some time before he is. Parise's and Gionta's first season in the NHL weren't too great. Im sure Bergfors first season in the NHL won't be too great either, unfortunately.

Are you ready for this.........

Mike Mottau has averaged MORE points per game in the AHL than Bergfors

Mottau Total AHL 463 47 232 279 -1 355 = .60 Points per game

Bergfors Total AHL 257 64 86 150 -27 54 = .58 Points per game

I whole hardly agree with the article. We may or may not make the playoffs in the upcoming season. However, we will be in a better position to get younger and better for the future. Winning divisions and losing in the first round is something I'm prepared to give up this season.

Are you ready for this.........

Mike Mottau has averaged MORE points per game in the AHL than Bergfors

Mottau Total AHL 463 47 232 279 -1 355 = .60 Points per game

Bergfors Total AHL 257 64 86 150 -27 54 = .58 Points per game

See, there's a reason Lowell didn't make the playoffs last year...I think the only one truly earning a roster spot in Newark is Frazee. I think the NHL game may just be too physical for Bergfors to adapt to. As of now he just has bust written all over him.

so am i the only one who has very minimal expectations of bergfors? it'll take him ages to develop if he ever does and i dont see the devils investing too much time in him with the big club.

See, there's a reason Lowell didn't make the playoffs last year...I think the only one truly earning a roster spot in Newark is Frazee. I think the NHL game may just be too physical for Bergfors to adapt to. As of now he just has bust written all over him.

I think Halischuk is going to be the "real" player that will make his way onto this team. I just don't think he is going to be ready for this year. Ideally he'll get some games this season though.

I’m not trying to say the cupboard is bare; I’m trying to say that at this particular point in time I don’t think it is a wise move to go the youth movement route.

Did anyone read the last sentence of the article? I wanted to point that out, and anyone who is upset with the Devils right now will be eating their words in a few years.

IN A FEW YEARS? Martin Brodeur will be gone in a few years and that is when the true rebuilding will begin.

so am i the only one who has very minimal expectations of bergfors? it'll take him ages to develop if he ever does and i dont see the devils investing too much time in him with the big club.

I think Halischuk is going to be the "real" player that will make his way onto this team. I just don't think he is going to be ready for this year. Ideally he'll get some games this season though.

I’m not trying to say the cupboard is bare; I’m trying to say that at this particular point in time I don’t think it is a wise move to go the youth movement route.

Did anyone read the last sentence of the article?

IN A FEW YEARS? Martin Brodeur will be gone in a few years and that is when the true rebuilding will begin.


I also have very minimal expectations of Bergfors...I think at best he could be a Tyler Kennedy type of player and with that I'd be happy, but I'm not sure he's even that good. Halischuk, Joefson, Tedenby all have promising futures in a few years...But Bergfors, Pelley, and Corrente really don't excite me and I have very little expectations from them. If they can't help Lowell even make it to the playoffs, why would you expect them to help Newark make the playoffs?

I also have very minimal expectations of Bergfors...I think at best he could be a Tyler Kennedy type of player and with that I'd be happy, but I'm not sure he's even that good. Halischuk, Joefson, Tedenby all have promising futures in a few years...But Bergfors, Pelley, and Corrente really don't excite me and I have very little expectations from them. If they can't help Lowell even make it to the playoffs, why would you expect them to help Newark make the playoffs?

This.

Outside those players I don't see much. I think he is being way way way to optimistic about the other prospects he listed in the article. There is no evidence that any of those other prospects has what it takes to make it in the NHL. I agree maybe in the long run this would be good, and maybe the if the devils stay the course they would risk being left behind by the other teams making progress. But Marty isn't getting younger. In a couple of years his career will be winding down. To me anyway it made more sense to try to fill the holes this team has through free agency and trades now, while he's still dominant and the team has a window to possibly win it all. Because when Marty is gone so are the Devils.

This team has not started rebuilding, but they have not gotten better. We are in Salary Cap limbo. Forced to let guys go as we couldn't compete with FA market contracts, but without the adequate youngsters and over acheiving contracts to replace them.

The Younger = Better nonsense has to stop too. These "young" teams have had multiple top 5 picks over the past 5 years or so (Chicago, Pitt, Washington) that we do not.

I just have no idea which direction this team is going in, which is the most frustrating part of the past week.

This team has not started rebuilding, but they have not gotten better. We are in Salary Cap limbo. Forced to let guys go as we couldn't compete with FA market contracts, but without the adequate youngsters and over acheiving contracts to replace them.

The Younger = Better nonsense has to stop too. These "young" teams have had multiple top 5 picks over the past 5 years or so (Chicago, Pitt, Washington) that we do not.

I just have no idea which direction this team is going in, which is the most frustrating part of the past week.

Exactly, it's not as though the devils have had high picks and been stockpiling young talent. The prospects they do have aren't even a lock to be able to adequately fill the smaller roles they will be asked to this season. Even if they work out these guys, don't have top end talent.

This team has not started rebuilding, but they have not gotten better. We are in Salary Cap limbo. Forced to let guys go as we couldn't compete with FA market contracts, but without the adequate youngsters and over acheiving contracts to replace them.

The Younger = Better nonsense has to stop too. These "young" teams have had multiple top 5 picks over the past 5 years or so (Chicago, Pitt, Washington) that we do not.

I just have no idea which direction this team is going in, which is the most frustrating part of the past week.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. I was beginning to feel like I was.

Even Mike Mottau played his way here

2005-2006 Peoria Rivermen-AHL 76 8 48 56 2
2006-2007 Lowell Devils-AHL 43 1 26 27 -5



Mike Mottau had 56 points in 76 games, and John Madden had 98 in 75 games. Bergfors best season in the AHL was last year and he had 51 points in 66 games, while Pelley put up 38 in 75...There's a 60 point difference between Pelley's best offensive season and Maddens. While I think it's important that Pelley and Bergfors see some time with the big club next year in no way do I expect them to "replace" Madden and Gionta at all. I think Pelley at best next year will be an OK 4th line center, and Bergfors at best next season could hopefully be a 15-15 guy probably playing on the bottom lines. Im not saying Bergfors will never be a top six guy, I just think it'll take him quite some time before he is. Parise's and Gionta's first season in the NHL weren't too great. Im sure Bergfors first season in the NHL won't be too great either, unfortunately.


first of all the leagues and scoring were different fifteen yrs ago, 30 goal season 15 years ago and you were a middle of the road goal scorer that has changed.

secondlly, if bergfors comes up it will be because he is ready. we are not talking about someone with 40 professional games. he as played the better parts of 3 seasons in the AHL he is either ready to make an immediate impact and score 20-25 goals or he is going to be a bust. he has plenty of skill.

i for one think the team has a glaring hole at center. our best center is a #2 center on most teams (zajac) so there is a hole there and has been for a few seasons. i agree with letting madden and gio go but unless lamarello thinks there is another center from lowell he is ingnoring a gaping hole this team needs to fill which is that of a #1 or #2 center depending on what zajac does this season

I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. I was beginning to feel like I was.

#1. free agency is not over with
#2. the devils have been active in the free agency market recently until this season
#3. we have two home grown stars that need new contracts next season and at considerable raises

i agree the team on PAPER did not improve; but if you consider losing a 36 year old center on the decline and a FORMER 40 goal scorer we would have had to pay 4 mil per a bad move than i have to disagree with you.

I will agree this team could use a center; because after zajac it is scary, god forbid he gets injured. I think there are 4 or 5 forwards from lowell that can play. i think our 3rd and 4th line will be improved this season. PL3 will be an improvement over rupp (i know big deal) Pelley will fill in nicely for madden and brings a more physical style of play. and bergfors is TBD.

#1. free agency is not over with
#2. the devils have been active in the free agency market recently until this season
#3. we have two home grown stars that need new contracts next season and at considerable raises

i agree the team on PAPER did not improve; but if you consider losing a 36 year old center on the decline and a FORMER 40 goal scorer we would have had to pay 4 mil per a bad move than i have to disagree with you.

I will agree this team could use a center; because after zajac it is scary, god forbid he gets injured. I think there are 4 or 5 forwards from lowell that can play. i think our 3rd and 4th line will be improved this season. PL3 will be an improvement over rupp (i know big deal) Pelley will fill in nicely for madden and brings a more physical style of play. and bergfors is TBD.

:facepalm:

Here we go again!

#3. we have two home grown stars that need new contracts next season and at considerable raises


Who are the two you are refering to?

Martin needs a contract. That is all I can think of.


Mike Mottau is also UFA next year.(He isn't home grown and he isn't a star) .

Besides that, the Devils have 3 RFA's next year Pelley, Bergfors and Clarkson.....None of which will cost a lot of money.

:facepalm:

Here we go again!

I'm not gonna say a word...except Gionta was a lot more valuable than anyone seems to want to give him credit for.

I'm not gonna say a word...except Gionta was a lot more valuable than anyone seems to want to give him credit for.

Keyword bolded for your pleasure.

Numerous players outperform or match their AHL statistics in their first NHL season. Take a look at James Neal of Dallas.

I also have very minimal expectations of Bergfors...I think at best he could be a Tyler Kennedy type of player and with that I'd be happy, but I'm not sure he's even that good. Halischuk, Joefson, Tedenby all have promising futures in a few years...But Bergfors, Pelley, and Corrente really don't excite me and I have very little expectations from them. If they can't help Lowell even make it to the playoffs, why would you expect them to help Newark make the playoffs?

Once again, Bergfors is not like Tyler Kennedy. Not sure where you are getting that comparison from.

And what terrible logic about Lowell and the playoffs. AHL team success is dictated by players such as Alexandre Giroux and Keith Aucoin moreso than actual NHL prospects.

It's interesting to me that individuals who don't see Bergfors play and know very little about his game can form such adament opinions about his potential in the NHL.

Numerous players outperform or match their AHL statistics in their first NHL season. Take a look at James Neal of Dallas.

It's interesting to me that individuals who don't see Bergfors play and know very little about his game can form such adament opinions about his potential in the NHL.

That is fair. And the fact of the matter is really none of us know how these guys will end up...But I have an idea.



But let me tell you how I'm thinking about the situation

Bergfors is a scorer/top 6 forward or Nothing. He is not the type of player that you say well, if he doesn't pan out as a top 6 winger he still can have a 10 year Sergie Brylin type of career. He is a scoring winger or Nothing.

James Neal or David Clarkson are a big physical forwards....If they don't score they still can have very successful careers in other roles. Those players showed at the very least they can be physical at an elite level.

When you have a player that is solely a scorer and they can not score at a high level in the AHL....Well that says to me that the one trick pony is probably not a strong enough horse to run the Derby.

It's interesting to me that individuals who don't see Bergfors play and know very little about his game can form such adament opinions about his potential in the NHL.

8 games last year produced 1 good game and little hope of anything outside being the type of player that chips in goals when someone better on his line draws the attention of the defense like a Backstrom when Ovechkin gets the focus.

He just didn't seem to have that quality of fighting through traffic to score, but rather be the benefactor from someone else's efforts or the defense's misfortunes.

8 games certainly isn't enough to say that will never change, but he didn't come out with much of a bang last season. The AHL is far far different than the NHL and just because someone is skilled and succeeds amongst the hopefuls, doesn't translate to being anything beyond mediocre when playing with the big boys. Physicality, speed, and goaltending are all more consistent and ever present up in the NHL, where they are sometimes lacking at the A.

I hope he finds another gear and more confidence because he's gonna need it - especially if he is going to be the replacement for Gionta.

That is fair. And the fact of the matter is really none of us know how these guys will end up...But I have an idea.



But let me tell you how I'm thinking about the situation

Bergfors is a scorer/top 6 forward or Nothing. He is not the type of player that you say well, if he doesn't pan out as a top 6 winger he still can have a 10 year Sergie Brylin type of career. He is a scoring winger or Nothing.

James Neal or David Clarkson are a big physical forwards....If they don't score they still can have very successful careers in other roles. Those players showed at the very least they can be physical at an elite level.

When you have a player that is solely a scorer and they can not score at a high level in the AHL....Well that says to me that the one trick pony is probably not a strong enough horse to run the Derby.

I think that's a decent assessment of the situation. A lot better than the guy who said Bergfors was like Tyler Kennedy. And Lou has pretty much said as much.

But "one trick poney's" are valuable if they can produce offensively. Sykora was a good player for us for a lot of years. I'm a stats nerd, but there are certain times when it's advisable to look at the situation: Bergfors has been on some terrible AHL teams that were bereft of offensive ability. For the most part he has put up points, save for the seasons where he hurt his shoulder. He was very good last season, averaging over three shots per game and putting up 22 goals in 66 games.

I think his offensive game will translate to the NHL level because he has decent hockey sense and a terrific shot that he's willing to use from anywhere. That's more than you could say for someone like Suglobov, who put up comparable offensive numbers but was an idiot without the puck. While the stats might not readily show it, Bergfors has the skillset to produce in the NHL.

Keyword bolded for your pleasure.

Why do you want to upset me?

Why do you want to upset me?

Because it's easy! :sarcasm:

8 games last year produced 1 good game and little hope of anything outside being the type of player that chips in goals when someone better on his line draws the attention of the defense like a Backstrom when Ovechkin gets the focus.

He just didn't seem to have that quality of fighting through traffic to score, but rather be the benefactor from someone else's efforts or the defense's misfortunes.

8 games certainly isn't enough to say that will never change, but he didn't come out with much of a bang last season. The AHL is far far different than the NHL and just because someone is skilled and succeeds amongst the hopefuls, doesn't translate to being anything beyond mediocre when playing with the big boys. Physicality, speed, and goaltending are all more consistent and ever present up in the NHL, where they are sometimes lacking at the A.

I hope he finds another gear and more confidence because he's gonna need it - especially if he is going to be the replacement for Gionta.

Bergfors averaged 6 minutes a game on a line with like Mike Rupp. No young offensive player will flourish in that situation.

Bergfors is no lock to succeed, for sure. But some people on this board are writing him off because he didn't produce immediately in his first call-up or two.

Because it's easy! :sarcasm:

Cut me a break...We just lost two heart and soul guys. I can't believe how everyone is so nonchalant about it.

Cut me a break...We just lost two heart and soul guys. I can't believe how everyone is so nonchalant about it.

I'm not gonna sit and pout about it because there's nothing I can do about it. It happened, I'm sad to see them go, I moved on!

Who's the girl here?

Bergfors averaged 6 minutes a game on a line with like Mike Rupp. No young offensive player will flourish in that situation.

Bergfors is no lock to succeed, for sure. But some people on this board are writing him off because he didn't produce immediately in his first call-up or two.

He also played against the other team's weaker lines... if you can't at least show a flash against the bottom 6 guys facing you - how will 1 better linemate offset the skill you face against the other team's top 6?

We have seen players like Elias, Gionta, Langenbrunner get thrown on the 4th line to double shift when someone is injured or ejected and they seem to manage some offense and creativity despite no "chemistry" or inferior linemates to lean on...

Just sayin' - we've seen call-ups show that spark and flash of brilliance that makes you crave more... I don't crave what he brought last time up and I'll say it again just for the skimmers; that doesn't mean he can't get better but rarely does someone take a huge leap from where he was to anywhere but mediocrity in their first full-time effort up at this level. He certainly will not take a leap and bound akin to Zajac's performance 2 years ago to last season. Expectations on my part are low and will be easy to surpass.

My higher hopes lie with one Rodney Pelley - who is born more from the traditional Devils mold as a lunch-bucket player who will steadily grow stronger and more confident with each game played for the next few years at least.

8 games last year produced 1 good game and little hope of anything outside being the type of player that chips in goals when someone better on his line draws the attention of the defense like a Backstrom when Ovechkin gets the focus.

He just didn't seem to have that quality of fighting through traffic to score, but rather be the benefactor from someone else's efforts or the defense's misfortunes.

8 games certainly isn't enough to say that will never change, but he didn't come out with much of a bang last season. The AHL is far far different than the NHL and just because someone is skilled and succeeds amongst the hopefuls, doesn't translate to being anything beyond mediocre when playing with the big boys. Physicality, speed, and goaltending are all more consistent and ever present up in the NHL, where they are sometimes lacking at the A.

I hope he finds another gear and more confidence because he's gonna need it - especially if he is going to be the replacement for Gionta.

RG, he played 40 minutes last season. I'm not joking, 40 minutes, and he came in contact with nobodies except when Patty got a token double shift to keep Vrana off the ice.

He didn't look out of his element in the game two years ago where he got a fair shake. Of course, then he got hurt. but basically, in those 2 periods of hockey he played, he got a quarter of the ice time that he got in 24 or 27 or however how many periods he played last season.

He also played against the other team's weaker lines... if you can't at least show a flash against the bottom 6 guys facing you - how will 1 better linemate offset the skill you face against the other team's top 6?

We have seen players like Elias, Gionta, Langenbrunner get thrown on the 4th line to double shift when someone is injured or ejected and they seem to manage some offense and creativity despite no "chemistry" or inferior linemates to lean on...

Just sayin' - we've seen call-ups show that spark and flash of brilliance that makes you crave more... I don't crave what he brought last time up and I'll say it again just for the skimmers; that doesn't mean he can't get better but rarely does someone take a huge leap from where he was to anywhere but mediocrity in their first full-time effort up at this level. He certainly will not take a leap and bound akin to Zajac's performance 2 years ago to last season. Expectations on my part are low and will be easy to surpass.

My higher hopes lie with one Rodney Pelley - who is born more from the traditional Devils mold as a lunch-bucket player who will steadily grow stronger and more confident with each game played for the next few years at least.

"Lunch-bucket" players won't win you anything unless you have the requisite offensive players. Pelley at best is a fourth line center in this league. He is good defensively, physical, slow, and a blackhole offensively.

40 minutes of ice time with fourth line players like Mike Rupp is not indicative of anything. Zach Parise looked terrible in his rookie season until he was matched with Gomez and Gionta.

I'm not gonna sit and pout about it because there's nothing I can do about it. It happened, I'm sad to see them go, I moved on!

Who's the girl here?

Apparently it is I?

:handclap: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r166/JimEIV/gio.jpg :handclap:

"Lunch-bucket" players won't win you anything unless you have the requisite offensive players. Pelley at best is a fourth line center in this league. He is good defensively, physical, slow, and a blackhole offensively.

40 minutes of ice time with fourth line players like Mike Rupp is not indicative of anything. Zach Parise looked terrible in his rookie season until he was matched with Gomez and Gionta.

yep, it's like playing 2 games and 2 periods getting a real shift.

if he went 1-0-1 -1 6SOG after 2 periods of his 3rd full game, would people be whining as much? especially if he was playing with whatever we scraped up to be on our fourth line? and one of his linemates was someone Sutter absolutely refused to play?

"Lunch-bucket" players won't win you anything unless you have the requisite offensive players. Pelley at best is a fourth line center in this league. He is good defensively, physical, slow, and a blackhole offensively.

40 minutes of ice time with fourth line players like Mike Rupp is not indicative of anything. Zach Parise looked terrible in his rookie season until he was matched with Gomez and Gionta.

Hey, watch what you say about The Rod, I saw this blackhole get a hat trick in Lowell.

Zach Parise looked terrible in his rookie season until he was matched with Gomez and Gionta.

Parise in his darkest days was still showing flashes and working hard...I think that is the point.

We haven't really seen any indication from Bergfors and we can't even point to the minor leagues, a junior tourney, or anything to say well at least he performed at an elite level at that point.

Cut me a break...We just lost two heart and soul guys. I can't believe how everyone is so nonchalant about it.

Because maybe not everyone felt the same way you do about the two players..

Maybe some of us wanted a different looking team coming into camp than the ones that had us bounced out of the playoffs early year after year

Cut me a break...We just lost two heart and soul guys. I can't believe how everyone is so nonchalant about it.

This team has survived losing Stevens and countless other heart and soul guys. Rupp was also Heart and Soul, should they just keep signing Heart and Soul and screw reality?

Heart and Soul hasn't gone this team very far lately. Maybe they need a little hunger and reality check as well.

How many "heart and soul" guys does this team need? You still have plenty of veterans who are also heart and soul guys. Wasn't the prime excuse to signing Pandolfo? Because he's heart and soul and a great locker room guy?

Even if Lou brought back all of the impending UFAs which would of equaled the cap space available, this team would still last seasons team. Madden and Gionta are exactly like losing Hull and Oates. The impact can be absorbed from within.
The fact that Lou didn't offer them pretty much just established how alot of people knew their time was up. Even Madden said it was time for a change for both parties. Lou has said countless times that Bergfors time will come. I wish Gionta well in Montreal and want to see how him and El Bandito deal with the media up there. I hope he also is taking French lessons and gets use to the media ripping on him.

Maybe some of us wanted a different looking team coming into camp than the ones that had us bounced out of the playoffs early year after year


That is interesting....Because the team that miraculously bounced us out of the first round of the playoffs last made it to the ECF. I felt we were superior in every single aspect to the Canes.... If we made it to the Eastern Conf Finals would things be different?

Is this change simply for the sake of change? Change for the sake of money saving? What is the point?

Cut me a break...We just lost two heart and soul guys. I can't believe how everyone is so nonchalant about it.

Jim, you know why, because we weren't going anywhere with them. Yea, Madden signed for one year, I could have lived with that, but it seems like Lamoriello believes that Pelley can do what Madden did last season for a lot cheaper. And Gio, $5 mil on 5 years would just hamper Lou going forward. For better or worse this is our situation and other than us and Detroit, every team in the league has gone through some rough years. Is it our turn? That's the $60 million dollar question. But even if it is, I don't believe we will turm into the Avs, and will be a short term problem.

As a Flyers fan, I know the Devils too well. Which tells me if the Devils don't perform, Lou will makes trades and make it so.

Relying on youth to step up can payoff, take a look at Richards and Carter.

Bergfors averaged 6 minutes a game on a line with like Mike Rupp. No young offensive player will flourish in that situation.

Bergfors is no lock to succeed, for sure. But some people on this board are writing him off because he didn't produce immediately in his first call-up or two.

exactly and he has never had a chance, maybe less than 10 nhl games if that, in fact he had pretty damn good first game either last season or the year before and he got injured.

The fact is they didn't make it out of 1st. round and haven't made it out of the 2nd. round since the lockout. Status quo wasn't an option, it's not like Lou let Martin and Parise walk or refuses to pay talent. The money saved is cap space.

That is interesting....Because the team that miraculously bounced us out of the first round of the playoffs last made it to the ECF. I felt we were superior in every single aspect to the Canes.... If we made it to the Eastern Conf Finals would things be different?

Is this change simply for the sake of change? Change for the sake of money saving? What is the point?

its change for the long term effect. Lou signed the only guy worth the money and that was oduya. gionta is just not worth 5 million per sorry. he had his big year with gomez got rewarded for it and has been only a decent player since. i think gionta is a great player but this is also a business not a fantasy team, and you have to look at cost vs. reward and i agree totally with letting both madden and gionta go.
the devils still have a skilled top 6 set of forwards. It's a long season if one or two of our prospects pan out well then a trade can be made etc. Bottom line is the devils will be competitive as always, and it's time to see if there is any young talent in this organization, if there is not, then we begin the rebuilding process. but you have to let these young players have a chance to prove themselves.

Jim, you know why, because we weren't going anywhere with them.

You are probably right. But are we going someplace without them?

It just seems like management said "We need a New Plan"....."We don't exactly know what that entails, but we need it"


I've got to be honest, I really enjoy all the regular season winning....And if I had a choice, I would want to rebuild while winning our division and getting knocked out of the first round.

lol, they made it to the ECF and then were left laying on the side of the road like a used condom.

You are probably right. But are we going someplace without them?

It just seems like management said "We need a New Plan"....."We don't exactly know what that entails, but we need it"


I've got to be honest, I really enjoy all the regular season winning....And if I had a choice, I would want to rebuild while winning our division and getting knocked out of the first round.

Were we going anywhere with them?

Embrace the change Jim...it may be good for your health!

...Is it our turn? That's the 56.8 million dollar question. But even if it is, I don't believe we will turm into the Avs, and will be a short term problem.

fixed :sarcasm:

Jim I'm the first one to sign up if they make a support group for this, it's gonna be tough to see Gio and Madden on opening weekend in different uni's. But CJ (and the quoted post) is right, this can only lead to good things and soon!

"Lunch-bucket" players won't win you anything unless you have the requisite offensive players. Pelley at best is a fourth line center in this league. He is good defensively, physical, slow, and a blackhole offensively.

40 minutes of ice time with fourth line players like Mike Rupp is not indicative of anything. Zach Parise looked terrible in his rookie season until he was matched with Gomez and Gionta.

So the same argument you're using for propping up Bergfors now is being used to cut against Pelley.

Quick reality check: Who saw more ice time of the two and had more duties with the team during their stay? Who contributed more in their "role" overall? I didn't say Pelley was the next Elias - I said his work ethic is the foundation the Devils is built on and if he progresses as I expect will end up contributing more to the future success of the team (i.e., in his role).

http://www.poptower.com/images/db/8066/450/500/im-a-celebrity-get-me-out-of-here.jpg

I'm done here.

Rod Pelley has tremedous work ethic/hunger. The guy comes from a very rich family and is determined to make it to the NHL. He has really learned alot from a full year at Lowell. Let's not forget has was a regular callup prior to this season and is ready to play a role for the Devils.

While nobody is saying he's Madden 2.0, he ready to play and accept his role.

Rod Pelley has tremedous work ethic/hunger. The guy comes from a very rich family and is determined to make it to the NHL. He has really learned alot from a full year at Lowell. Let's not forget has was a regular callup prior to this season and is ready to play a role for the Devils.

While nobody is saying he's Madden 2.0, he ready to play and accept his role.

yeah, I expect him to surprise a bit. going to be a good bang for the buck player.
but, if Bergfors pans out, he'll be a good bang for the puck player too... at least for one year.

So the same argument you're using for propping up Bergfors now is being used to cut against Pelley.

Quick reality check: Who saw more ice time of the two and had more duties with the team during their stay? Who contributed more in their "role" overall? I didn't say Pelley was the next Elias - I said his work ethic is the foundation the Devils is built on and if he progresses as I expect will end up contributing more to the future success of the team (i.e., in his role).

http://www.poptower.com/images/db/8066/450/500/im-a-celebrity-get-me-out-of-here.jpg

I'm done here.

Pelley already had an extended look on the roster and managed two extremely flukey goals in 58 games. He exhibits no offensive skill whatsoever. The only reason his AHL stats look somewhat respectable is because of his age (25) and the Lowell Devils' lack of center depth. The guy is gritty, can hit, and a play a bit of defense but so can a lot of other forwards. Comparing him to Bergfors is apples to oranges.

Pelley is the type of player, like a Rupp or Pandolfo, who would hold back a line with offensive players like Elias and Rolston. As such he deserves to be nowhere near them. Bergfors would not do that since he has the offensive skills to go tit for tat.

Bergfors has a more specialized skill set and I'm willing to bet he has a much more prolific and productive NHL career than Pelley. Average fourth line centers are a dime a dozen.

That is interesting....Because the team that miraculously bounced us out of the first round of the playoffs last made it to the ECF. I felt we were superior in every single aspect to the Canes.... If we made it to the Eastern Conf Finals would things be different?

Is this change simply for the sake of change? Change for the sake of money saving? What is the point?

As do I.. You don't have to convince me about last years team.. I have no idea if things would be different.. It would probably all depend on how they performed in the playoffs and how well we did in the ECF.. I don't want to play the "if game"

You know we'll be competitive this season.. I don't think re-build is in Lou's vocabulary

We don't know who our coach is or what our roster will look like come the start of the season..

I think the change is both for the sake of change and saving money.. Whether you like it or not it's still a business, and we need to look at the salary cap.. The point is to give this team a different feel..Give our vets more defined roles and insert some youth.. Money saving is directly linked to the cap and locking up our truly more important players, rather than throwing $4 mill at a guy who people will be all over here complaing about 12 games into the season

No matter what Lou did, you'd have people complaining.. Just let the season play out and see what comes of it.. None of us are fortune tellers

Pelley already had an extended look on the roster and managed two extremely flukey goals in 58 games. He exhibits no offensive skill whatsoever. The only reason his AHL stats look somewhat respectable is because of his age (25) and the Lowell Devils' lack of center depth. The guy is gritty, can hit, and a play a bit of defense but so can a lot of other forwards. Comparing him to Bergfors is apples to oranges.

Pelley is the type of player, like a Rupp or Pandolfo, who would hold back a line with offensive players like Elias and Rolston. As such he deserves to be nowhere near them. Bergfors would not do that since he has the offensive skills to go tit for tat.

Bergfors has a more specialized skill set and I'm willing to bet he has a much more prolific and productive NHL career than Pelley.

For you to throw out 2 goals as a detractor from Pelley's value - what exactly do you expect from a 4th line rookie playing with Rupp and Vrana? The same damn argument you're using to belittle him is the same defense you're using to justify why Bergfors didn't produce in his chance. You are the one sir comparing apples and oranges - not me.

Let me put this as simply as I possibly can so you will understand what I'm saying, not what you apparently WANT me to be saying.

What I AM SAYING:


Pelley will succeed at his role better than Bergfors will succeed at his.


Pelley already has shown success in his limited time with the team - Bergfors has not.



Pelley's role on this team is not just a 4th line center looking down the road in 2-3 years if he continues to build on what he has done to date.



Bergfors has a very small window of opportunity remaining to demonstrate he belongs on the Devils.


What I AM NOT Saying:


Pelley is better than Bergfors at scoring.



Bergfors will never be better than Pelley.



Pelley will be a top 6 player for the Devils.



Pelley will carry us to a Cup.



Bergfors can take his sweet ass time developing because we all know Europeans take longer to adjust to the NHL.


I truly hope nobody can twist that up. There's a slot open where the Rochester Rocket used to be and if Bergfors can't step into those shoes this season and provide at least some promise of filling them - then it may be the last time we see ol' Nicklas get a shot with this team.

There's a slot open where the Rochester Rocket used to be and if Bergfors can't step into those shoes this season and provide at least some promise of filling them - then it may be the last time we see ol' Nicklas get a shot with this team.

I agree. For all Bergfors's potential, he is dangerously close to being a bust if he can't get it together and show that he belongs on a scoring line in the NHL this season. One of his problems is that he is basically a one-dimensional player; as a sniper, he doesn't have much else he does well besides scoring. So if he is brought up and given a chance on a scoring line with skill players, and still can't get it done, there will be no hope he can stay with the team in another role as a defensive forward, and he will wash out.

The other thing is I really don't think Lou is done at all constructing this year's team. We know there are in the Koivu talks, have to think we have stop and made him think a little if he hasn't signed to play with his bro yet. Plus there are teams in cap trouble who we could try and get a second line center from. I think a couple of moves are still coming.

I truly hope nobody can twist that up. There's a slot open where the Rochester Rocket used to be and if Bergfors can't step into those shoes this season and provide at least some promise of filling them - then it may be the last time we see ol' Nicklas get a shot with this team.

I still think you might not see Bergfors jump into that role this year. If Rolston can step up to that line or maybe even Clarkson, Bergfors might get to have a 3rd line/2nd power play 10 to 15 goal season, which for his first year at 22 I would be fine with. I just want him to stick with the big club in any capacity and get some NHL ice time and see what he can do.

Koivu and Kotalik are the two names on offense that I'm suprised to see out there. Sundin, Shanahan and other older vets have a tough choice to make.

its like ive said and many have said, what good is it re-signing players(gio and madden) for more money if when we didnt get anywhere with them?? it really does not make any sense, wed be just spinning our wheels

This isn't rebuilding.

I didn't hear "rebuilding" being thrown around when Gomez and Rafalski left and those two were in their primes.

We let two aging players go because it would have been extremely detrimental to pay them. The only difference here is that we aren't signing plugs like Zubrus.

We let two aging players go because it would have been extremely detrimental to pay them. The only difference here is that we aren't signing plugs like Zubrus.

Yet. Free agency isn't over, we may see a plug signing yet. :shakehead

But I agree with you, this is more of a roster shake-up than rebuilding. We aren't holding a fire sale, and we're not tanking to get the #1 pick. We're letting some of the older guys drop out and filling those holes with youthful talents who are eager to prove themselves. I think our roster as it is currently should still make the playoffs.