Scouting Reports: (Hawks Fan) John Madden

can anyone give me an unbiased scouting report on what kind of player the hawks are getting in John Madden..

thanks alot

maddens play dropped alot last year. the year before he was great both offensivley and defensivley but last year his offense was non existent but worse his defense wasnt good. he is still very good on the pk though and is still very good defensivley. he played pretty well in the playoffs

Clutch on faceoffs, will win the most important ones 95% of the time. Very fast skater, although he's gotten slower with age. He puts an endless effort every shift. Can shut down opposing teams stars as good as any forward in the NHL. Brings a great amount of leadership on the ice. Will score timely and clutch goals for you, and most importantly, he is a beast in the playoffs. He plays every shift in the post season like it's his last and will do absolutely anything to win. He will become an instant fan fave in Chicago.

You had Sami Pahlsson, yes? Same template.

Tenacious checking forward, good on the draws, hell of a penalty killer, max 20 goal scorer if he turns it up on the SHG side of things. If not, just expect him to cause trouble for Getzlaf, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Richards, Thornton (Big Joe HATES playing Madden), and everyone elses top players. Just don't play him more than Toews and Kane and you should be alright.

Hard worker with decent speed, great hockey sense, not a great shot, average passer below average puck handling skills, still a great PKer who can break up passes with a quick stick. Above all a leader.

hmmmm.

he's in very good shape. still has very good straight line speed but not at the level it was a few years back. he can kill penalties aggressively if allowed to kill penalties aggressively. (Pando, on the other hand, can't)

he's not a stopper any more in the sense that he can chase around top line forwards for all of their shifts. not anything more than an average puck mover. not a scorer, either he presses or makes bad decisions. not a stick-handler, so if he loses speed, he can't compensate by being slippery.

lockeroom, that's debateable, some people like him, some people question him. he's a leader in that he's got experience in big spots and he will play hurt past the normal "hockey player playing hurt stuff". but, he's also a little chirpy and there's that whole shooting the puck at Julien thing, if you believe it. I don't.

he has more upside than Pahlsson, but he also could be going off the cliff. so, I'd say, either you get a slight improvement or he's in the press box in March. it's a one-year deal, so, in the end, who cares, if it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

What you'll like best about Mad Dog is that he's seen it all and he is one of the most trustworthy and reliable players there is when the other team's #1 line is out there and the game is on the line.

What you may not love is that he's still so good at shutting down guys that a coach may be tempted to give him more ice time than a more threatening offensive player.

If you ask around the league "Who are the best PK men in the last decade?", he will come up on every list.

And he has a Selke, too.

He is not young, so you won't be getting the best Madden, but he is so valuable in those key spots in the playoffs even if he has a mediocre season he will almost definitely earn his money in the postseason.

Finally, read this (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/23/sports/hockey-madden-s-tricks-fluster-lemieux.html?sec=&spon=). It's all you really need to know about who John Madden is.

Honestly...he sucks in all aspects of the game now

plays best with Jay Pandolfo. so... if you want to make a trade...

Honestly...he sucks in all aspects of the game nowWow. He might not be as good as he once was, but he can still play.

plays best with Jay Pandolfo. so... if you want to make a trade...I loled :laugh:

He's the man. Trade him back or else!!

If Madden plays like he did last season you will not like him, period. Do not believe some of these guys who claim he wins every big faceoff, that is simply a lie at this stage in his career. Last season Madden won 51% of his faceoffs, not exactly an amazing percentage and certainly not worthy of being labeled a fantastic clutch centerman. Now do not interpret that the wrong way, he is pretty good at faceoffs but far from phenomenal anymore.

As far as Madden being a great playoff performer and timely goal scorer, i disagree again. Sure 4 years ago this described Madden rather well, now, not so much. In Madden's last 23 playoff games he has 3 goals and 3 assists for an apparently clutch 6 points. Over those games he is also a minus 14. Dont get your hopes up from all these fans raving about the Madden of FIVE years ago, some people like to recall the past as if it was yesterday.

I dont think Madden is an awful player and i do think he will help the Hawks (playing no more than 12 minutes a game), but some of what these guys are telling you is simply exaggerated and/or false.

plays best with Jay Pandolfo. so... if you want to make a trade...

:laugh: that was good. Pando, Salvador, 1st for Sharp and Barker? :D

If you get the Madden of 2-3 years ago, you made out gangbusters and will get your moneys worth. If you got the Madden of LAST year well...at least you've only got him signed for a year.

I love Madden, he's a warrior, and I can't wait to see him get under some of the Wests best, but his shot has gotten really soft and he didn't really bury all those SHG like he used to years ago.

Madden lost his scoring touch but he is solid defensivley...

our heart and soul :(

Opening night is going to be weird without him there. Yecccch.

http://willfulcaboose.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/john-madden1.jpg

Will score timely and clutch goals for you, and most importantly, he is a beast in the playoffs.

Clutch? At one point in his career yeah but more recently I think of this:

2002 - Shanked a breakaway against Weekes in OT in Game 5
2008 - Missed penalty shot against Lundqvist when we were making an insane Game 5 comeback by throwing it into the mattress pads
2009 - Blowing two two-on-ones in Game 7

More or less he's become a one-dimensional player. He's still a good PK'er if you don't use him in that dopey passive box (see the playoffs when we actually did go agressive in that aspect and the PK was great) but you'll go crazy when Quenneville starts line-matching, he really hasn't done great at that in the playoffs post-lockout.

But yeah he's a heart and soul guy, good at faceoffs and probably will be well-liked by some. Just judge by this thread, half the people are mourning him and the other half got tired of him...I'm kind of a little of both.

Opening night is going to be weird without him there. Yecccch.

http://willfulcaboose.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/john-madden1.jpg

dont worry, we still have the other part of sucktron to fill the void

http://devils.nhl.com/photos/mugs/8459454.jpg

there's that whole shooting the puck at Julien thing, if you believe it. I don't.

My $$$ is still on this being done by Gomez. I would lose SO much respect for Madden if it were him, and I just dont think anything in his past says he'd be the guy to do something like that. Frankly, I'm somewhat amazed that the truth on this STILL hasnt come out a few years later, but someday, I'm sure it will. Until then, these are my top-3 guesses (in order).


1) Scott Gomez
2) Cam Jannsen
3) Richard Matvichuk

Game 3 2006 playoffs...

Madden wins the faceoff so strongly that the puck goes all the way into the Devils zone and Brind'Amour scores with 1 minute left...The Devils never won another game in that series and Carolina wins the Stanley Cup.

Honestly...he sucks in all aspects of the game now

you fail

My $$$ is still on this being done by Gomez. I would lose SO much respect for Madden if it were him, and I just dont think anything in his past says he'd be the guy to do something like that. Frankly, I'm somewhat amazed that the truth on this STILL hasnt come out a few years later, but someday, I'm sure it will. Until then, these are my top-3 guesses (in order).


1) Scott Gomez
2) Cam Jannsen
3) Richard Matvichuk

See I never thought it was Gomez because he strikes me as more of the passive-agressive sulk and pout type whereas shooting the puck at a coach is an alpha male intense type of move. Alpha male intense describes Madden a lot more than Gomez.

But yeah it is amazing that all this time and it's still 50-50 or 60-40 as to who did it...and Gomez/Madden have been by far the two players rumored, I don't think anyone else's name has ever come up.

My $$$ is still on this being done by Gomez. I would lose SO much respect for Madden if it were him, and I just dont think anything in his past says he'd be the guy to do something like that. Frankly, I'm somewhat amazed that the truth on this STILL hasnt come out a few years later, but someday, I'm sure it will. Until then, these are my top-3 guesses (in order).


1) Scott Gomez
2) Cam Jannsen
3) Richard Matvichuk

I don't think anyone shot a puck at him. It sure as hell wasn't Gomez, he's a goof and the maddest I've ever seen him was the pursefight vs. Langs in the playoffs. and he was still a goof during that.

Game 3 2006 playoffs...

Madden wins the faceoff so strongly that the puck goes all the way into the Devils zone and Brind'Amour scores with 1 minute left...The Devils never won another game in that series and Carolina wins the Stanley Cup.

huh, they won Game 4. and the winning goal in game 3 was scored on a double minor nowhere near the end of the game. it was 3-2. there was no empty netter.

Opening night is going to be weird without him there. Yecccch.

http://willfulcaboose.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/john-madden1.jpg

As much as I hate the Devils that's a sick pic.

As much as I hate the Devils that's a sick pic.

Reminds me of Petey from the little rascals...

http://www.poocini.com/report/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/petey.jpg

My $$$ is still on this being done by Gomez. I would lose SO much respect for Madden if it were him, and I just dont think anything in his past says he'd be the guy to do something like that. Frankly, I'm somewhat amazed that the truth on this STILL hasnt come out a few years later, but someday, I'm sure it will. Until then, these are my top-3 guesses (in order).


1) Scott Gomez
2) Cam Jannsen
3) Richard Matvichuk

i heard rumors that it was Elias. im pretty sure Elias and Julien had a rough spill for a while, i also know Patty was a little hot headed when he first came to the team.

i heard rumors that it was Elias. im pretty sure Elias and Julien had a rough spill for a while, i also know Patty was a little hot headed when he first came to the team.

Stop, No more rumors. I know for a fact that it was John Madden. I'm not even going to go into how I know or who I know, Just trust me, it was Madden who shot the puck at Claude during the breakout drills. Julien did absolutely nothing and really lost the respect of some of the players..There were a few players who confronted Madden on the ice and stood up for Julien. It came very close to getting ugly. John Madden was never the most well liked guy in the locker room.

i heard rumors that it was Elias. im pretty sure Elias and Julien had a rough spill for a while, i also know Patty was a little hot headed when he first came to the team.

Elias? Up until this thread, the rumors were the fatboy (and now North American journeyman) Langenbrunner and Madden.

But now I'm hearing Richard Matvichuk, Cam Janssen and Patrik Elias for the 1st time.

This story keeps evolving.


John Madden was never the most well liked guy in the locker room.

I'm not so sure I can really believe this.

http://www.hittheice.com/pics/8x10s/9454.jpg
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282009/photos/spo0a.jpg

i heard rumors that it was Elias. im pretty sure Elias and Julien had a rough spill for a while, i also know Patty was a little hot headed when he first came to the team.

Stop, No more rumors. I know for a fact that it was John Madden. I'm not even going to go into how I know or who I know, Just trust me, it was Madden who shot the puck at Claude during the breakout drills. Julien did absolutely nothing and really lost the respect of some of the players..There were a few players who confronted Madden on the ice and stood up for Julien. It came very close to getting ugly. John Madden was never the most well liked guy in the locker room.

Where the **** do you people come up with this ****?

When he first came to our team? That was long before Julien and he hardly even played with the guy because he missed most of the season with the ****ing Hep. I think to even speculate it was him is absolutely ridiculous and plain stupid.

Also, I met Patty with Albany circa 1998 when the team stayed at the same hotel as us in Hershey and he was just as humble then as he is now, except his English was still too thick with an accent.

Madden not being the most liked guy in the locker room? That's pretty poorly stated by way of the fact it implies he was DISLIKED. I think that, too, is far from the truth of the matter. He's clearly a grumpy and intense dude, but never, ever, has he displayed the kind of selfishness and arrogance that a guy like Gomez did while he was here.

He's easily known as the crab-ass on the team and everyone has always accepted that and seemingly they've had some fun with it (per the insider-practical jokes, nicknames, etc). If anything, his no-nonsense attitude probably had a positive effect on the locker room as opposed to otherwise. So sure, people weren't smiling when he walked into a room, but that doesn't translate to dislike, as saying it that way implies.

In all likelihood it was Gomez because he's the one childish enough to do something like that, although I could see Madden doing it in a fit of rage if he said something to piss him off. But Elias? What a ****ing joke...

Madden probably spoke his mind, good for him.

Always a Devil in my mind.

Stop, No more rumors. I know for a fact that it was John Madden. I'm not even going to go into how I know or who I know, Just trust me, it was Madden who shot the puck at Claude during the breakout drills. Julien did absolutely nothing and really lost the respect of some of the players..There were a few players who confronted Madden on the ice and stood up for Julien. It came very close to getting ugly. John Madden was never the most well liked guy in the locker room.

You say stop the rumors yet this is exactly the definition of a rumor.

You say stop the rumors yet this is exactly the definition of a rumor.

exactly. The hypocrisy speaks for itself.

Clutch on faceoffs, will win the most important ones 95% of the time.

I hate the notion of clutch. It doesn't exist. Certain players may break down in high pressure situations, but no player exceeds their normal averages by 40% just because they're "clutch". That's just a ridiculous assertion. The reason Madden wins a slight majority of clutch faceoffs is because he's good at faceoffs overall.

I find it weird that anyone would need a scouting report on John Madden right now... I mean, if you don't know who John Madden is and what he brings to the table then you probably don't follow hockey very much.

He's been one of the most heralded two-way/shutdown centers in the game for the last 8 years...a former Selke winner and the runner up from last year...

No disrespect to the OP, but to me it's kinda disrespectful to ask for a scouting report on Madden. It's not like you're getting a guy that has been living in the shadows or just entering the league.

Mad Dog has been a warrior for us, one of my all time favourite players, and I do think it was time for a change, but I still want everyone to respect him to the max.

I hate the notion of clutch. It doesn't exist. Certain players may break down in high pressure situations, but no player exceeds their normal averages by 40% just because they're "clutch". That's just a ridiculous assertion. The reason Madden wins a slight majority of clutch faceoffs is because he's good at faceoffs overall.

Do you not remember Claude Lemieux?

Do you not remember Claude Lemieux?

Yes I do. Correlation is not necessarily causation. Just because Lemieux scored a small sample of goals in "clutch" situations does not mean he's a "clutch" player.

Funny how a 20 game playoff performance makes a player "clutch" for his entire career. Lemieux had just as many bad playoff performances as good ones. Lemieux had a career playoff PPG of .68 and GPG of .34. Not surprisingly, his regular season averages for the same statistics are .65 and .31 (weighed down a bit by his last several professional regular seasons where he clearly wasn't the same player). So Lemieux's playoff averages come right around his regular season averages.

Yes I do. Correlation is not necessarily causation. Just because Lemieux scored a small sample of goals in "clutch" situations does not mean he's a "clutch" player.

Funny how a 20 game playoff performance makes a player "clutch" for his entire career. Lemieux had just as many bad playoff performances as good ones. Lemieux had a career playoff PPG of .68 and GPG of .34. Not surprisingly, his regular season averages for the same statistics are .65 and .31 (weighed down a bit by his last several professional regular seasons where he clearly wasn't the same player). So Lemieux's playoff averages come right around his regular season averages.

You just like to argue and nitpick don't you... Claude's good games = timely goals and game winning goals. His bad games were not the reason for our losses. He had a knack for burying a goal when it was most needed - IN THE PLAYOFFS.

That is clutch regardless of what you or Webster think is the literal definition.

You just like to argue and nitpick don't you... Claude's good games = timely goals and game winning goals. His bad games were not the reason for our losses. He had a knack for burying a goal when it was most needed - IN THE PLAYOFFS.

That is clutch regardless of what you or Webster think is the literal definition.

Yeah I'm just an argumentative ****** I guess. God forbid someone has opinions that aren't HF cannon around here.

Lemieux was not clutch. His playoff numbers are exactly the same as his regular season numbers. He was a very good player, and subsequently performed well in "clutch" situations more often than inferior players because of that. It's as simple of that. And by the way, he averaged 3.8GWG per 82 game season during his career. That's pretty average. He was only clutch in the sense that he didn't let the pressure lessen his game.

David Ortiz is a good analogy. Every ill-informed baseball fan claims he raises his game in clutch situations. This isn't true though. His statistics in clutch situations fall exactly in line with his averages.

Yeah I'm just an argumentative ****** I guess. God forbid someone has opinions that aren't HF cannon around here.

Lemieux was not clutch. His playoff numbers are exactly the same as his regular season numbers. He was a very good player, and subsequently performed well in "clutch" situations more often than inferior players because of that. It's as simple of that. And by the way, he averaged 3.8GWG per 82 game season during his career. That's pretty average. He was only clutch in the sense that he didn't let the pressure lessen his game.

David Ortiz is a good analogy. Every ill-informed baseball fan claims he raises his game in clutch situations. This isn't true though. His statistics in clutch situations fall exactly in line with his averages.

Listen you cant always go by numbers.. Sometimes you know you have to actually watch the games..

So by your statements Reggie Jackson and Derek Jeter are not clutch and should not be called Mr.October and Mr. November.. As much as you will argue numbers they will not tell you the whole story... The situation WILL



Edit: Nevermind dont respond to this.. Reading your post history you look like the type to not realize when hes wrong and aruge to the death with retarted numbers blah blah.. So Sorry I responded..

Listen you cant always go by numbers.. Sometimes you know you have to actually watch the games..

So by your statements Reggie Jackson and Derek Jeter are not clutch and should not be called Mr.October and Mr. November.. As much as you will argue numbers they will not tell you the whole story... The situation WILL

Wow you sound like Harold Reynolds. Ugh.

Stats, over a full career, paint a very accurate picture of a player. Subjective judgments do not. Reputation has a way of spinning out of control in both positive and negative directions. Qualitative assessment is also clouded by bias. Stats are not.

And sorry Jeter is not clutch. He is a career 309/377/469 hitter in the playoffs. In the regular season he his 316/386/458. Wow, what a surprise, the numbers match up. Hmmm, could it be that good players play well in clutch situations simply because, well, they're good players?

I will believe in the notion of clutch when someone finds me a player who was below average in regular situations and played amazingly well in clutch situations. Problem is that they, with a big enough sample size, never exist.

Listen you cant always go by numbers.. Sometimes you know you have to actually watch the games..

So by your statements Reggie Jackson and Derek Jeter are not clutch and should not be called Mr.October and Mr. November.. As much as you will argue numbers they will not tell you the whole story... The situation WILL



Edit: Nevermind dont respond to this.. Reading your post history you look like the type to not realize when hes wrong and aruge to the death with retarted numbers blah blah.. So Sorry I responded..

The only reason you think the numbers are "retarded" is because they contradict your opinion. Maybe you should take the time to understand them.

Sorry but I never will string together long arguments with unsubstantiated opinion because there's absolutely no point to it. I will always support my argument with relevant facts, something very few people here like to do. No, stats are not perfect, however they actually present a quantifiable way of measuring a player. There is no bias involved.

Wow you sound like Harold Reynolds. Ugh.

Stats, over a full career, paint a very accurate picture of a player. Subjective judgments do not. Reputation has a way of spinning out of control in both positive and negative directions. Qualitative assessment is also clouded by bias. Stats are not.

And sorry Jeter is not clutch. He is a career 309/377/469 hitter in the playoffs. In the regular season he his 316/386/458. Wow, what a surprise, the numbers match up. Hmmm, could it be that good players play well in clutch situations simply because, well, they're good players?

I will believe in the notion of clutch when someone finds me a player who was below average in regular situations and played amazingly well in clutch situations. Problem is that they, with a big enough sample size, never exist.

The only reason you think the numbers are "retarded" is because they contradict your opinion. Maybe you should take the time to understand them.

Sorry but I never will string together long arguments with unsubstantiated opinion because there's absolutely no point to it. I will always support my argument with relevant facts, something very few people here like to do. No, stats are not perfect, however they actually present a quantifiable way of measuring a player. There is no bias involved.

Wow you just proved my point perfectly... :laugh: Im done

Wow you just proved my point perfectly... :laugh: Im done

Quality response. Initially denigrate me as a poster but completely do not respond to my point about Jeter's regular season v. playoff splits.

Anyway, John Madden. Good checker, still decent speed. I bet he can muster 40 points if he has good linemates in Chicago.

Yes I do. Correlation is not necessarily causation. Just because Lemieux scored a small sample of goals in "clutch" situations does not mean he's a "clutch" player.

Funny how a 20 game playoff performance makes a player "clutch" for his entire career. Lemieux had just as many bad playoff performances as good ones. Lemieux had a career playoff PPG of .68 and GPG of .34. Not surprisingly, his regular season averages for the same statistics are .65 and .31 (weighed down a bit by his last several professional regular seasons where he clearly wasn't the same player). So Lemieux's playoff averages come right around his regular season averages.

Roman Cechmanek > Martin Brodeur.

Better career save percentage.

Roman Cechmanek > Martin Brodeur.

Better career save percentage.

Well ignoring the fact that save percentage is not nearly as definitive a stat as goals and assists are, I'd like to add that Cechmanek played a little over 200 NHL games and didn't play in more than 59 games in a single season. Martin Brodeur has played 1000 games and routinely averages 75+ games a year. Very seldom does Brodeur have the best GAA or Save Percentage in a single season, however his consistent level of top play is absolutely unmatched.

Goalies are kind of random and subject to vast fluctuations in statistics from year to year. That's what makes Brodeur so impressive.

I find it weird that anyone would need a scouting report on John Madden right now... I mean, if you don't know who John Madden is and what he brings to the table then you probably don't follow hockey very much

Except that Madden's not quite the same player he was in 2000, or 2003.

Well ignoring the fact that save percentage is not nearly as definitive a stat as goals and assists are, I'd like to add that Cechmanek played a little over 200 NHL games and didn't play in more than 59 games in a single season. Martin Brodeur has played 1000 games and routinely averages 75+ games a year. Very seldom does Brodeur have the best GAA or Save Percentage in a single season, however his consistent level of top play is absolutely unmatched.

Goalies are kind of random and subject to vast fluctuations in statistics from year to year. That's what makes Brodeur so impressive.

Remind me why Cechmanek only lasted 200 games in the NHL?

Here are some more stats for you:

Joe Thornton
Regular Season: 842 points in 835 games. Playoffs: 53 points in 76 games.

76 games isn't enough of a sample?

Remind me why Cechmanek only lasted 200 games in the NHL?

Here are some more stats for you:

Joe Thornton
Regular Season: 842 points in 835 games. Playoffs: 53 points in 76 games.

76 games isn't enough of a sample?

Because he wasn't a great goalie. And his performance on a weaker LA team proved that. Once again, I am not arguing that statistics are the end all (especially save percentage and goals against average which are very team-oriented), just that CERTAIN STATS are better in evaluating players OVER THE LONG-TERM than reputation and subjective judgment.

And I admitted that a player can be less effective in pressure situations. The one thing I refuse to admit is that players raise their game in those situations. For instance, a third line grinder won't become a legit top six player just because the situation is high pressure. Similarly, a .250 hitter in baseball won't morph into a .300 hitter just because of the situation.

Where the **** do you people come up with this ****?

When he first came to our team? That was long before Julien and he hardly even played with the guy because he missed most of the season with the ****ing Hep. I think to even speculate it was him is absolutely ridiculous and plain stupid.

Also, I met Patty with Albany circa 1998 when the team stayed at the same hotel as us in Hershey and he was just as humble then as he is now, except his English was still too thick with an accent.

Madden not being the most liked guy in the locker room? That's pretty poorly stated by way of the fact it implies he was DISLIKED. I think that, too, is far from the truth of the matter. He's clearly a grumpy and intense dude, but never, ever, has he displayed the kind of selfishness and arrogance that a guy like Gomez did while he was here.

He's easily known as the crab-ass on the team and everyone has always accepted that and seemingly they've had some fun with it (per the insider-practical jokes, nicknames, etc). If anything, his no-nonsense attitude probably had a positive effect on the locker room as opposed to otherwise. So sure, people weren't smiling when he walked into a room, but that doesn't translate to dislike, as saying it that way implies.

In all likelihood it was Gomez because he's the one childish enough to do something like that, although I could see Madden doing it in a fit of rage if he said something to piss him off. But Elias? What a ****ing joke...

There were players that didn't like Madden, but it's a lockeroom, what do you expect?
It definately was not Patty. Patty was one of the guys arguing for him not to get fired. I think those were two players that definately did not get along, but they're both professionals and you don't see it bleed out.

That *was* likely a huge mess, but since it happened for the Devils, no one will ever know.

I still don't believe the puck shoot incident.

Wow you just proved my point perfectly... :laugh: Im done

yep.

Oh btw - I won't even look up the stats because what I know from my years of watching hockey doesn't need the self-patting on the back to do so, but I bet you Claude's stats for the years with the Devils at least a 20% better playoff PPG average than his regular season... not his entire career which is not how we remember him - we only count his time here as what creates our perception.

I bet someone else looks it up though - and if I'm wrong by even 4% or more, it gets posted. If not - no response.

yep.

Oh btw - I won't even look up the stats because what I know from my years of watching hockey doesn't need the self-patting on the back to do so, but I bet you Claude's stats for the years with the Devils at least a 20% better playoff PPG average than his regular season... not his entire career which is not how we remember him - we only count his time here as what creates our perception.

I bet someone else looks it up though - and if I'm wrong by even 4% or more, it gets posted. If not - no response.

let's see.

seasons ending in

1991: 30 in 78 - 0.38 4 in 7 - 0.57
1992: 41 in 74 - 0.55 4 in 7 - 0.57
1993: 30 in 77 - 0.39 2 in 5 - 0.40
1994: 18 in 79 - 0.23 7 in 20 - 0.35
1995: 6 in 45 - 0.13 13 in 20 - 0.65

total: 125 in 353 - 0.35 30 in 59 - 0.51

you're wrong by a little less than 4% :laugh:

but definately, those last two years, especially 95, there's a significant difference.

yep.

Oh btw - I won't even look up the stats because what I know from my years of watching hockey doesn't need the self-patting on the back to do so, but I bet you Claude's stats for the years with the Devils at least a 20% better playoff PPG average than his regular season... not his entire career which is not how we remember him - we only count his time here as what creates our perception.

I bet someone else looks it up though - and if I'm wrong by even 4% or more, it gets posted. If not - no response.

Some people are just obcessed with numbers and refuse to state a opinion based on what they see and the situation in which it happens... Instead they wait to see the numbers and crunch them in a way to get there point across.. Well to each there own..

let's see.

seasons ending in

1991: 30 in 78 - 0.38 4 in 7 - 0.57
1992: 41 in 74 - 0.55 4 in 7 - 0.57
1993: 30 in 77 - 0.39 2 in 5 - 0.40
1994: 18 in 79 - 0.23 7 in 20 - 0.35
1995: 6 in 45 - 0.13 13 in 20 - 0.65

total: 125 in 353 - 0.35 30 in 59 - 0.51

you're wrong by a little less than 4% :laugh:

but definately, those last two years, especially 95, there's a significant difference.

And if you look at goals, rather than just points, I'd assume it would be an even greater difference.

Edit: And what amateur stats freaks sometimes forget is that the playoffs have always been lower scoring than the regular season, partly because the game tightens up, and partly because all the crappy defenses/goalies didn't make it. So being able to even maintain one's scoring pace in the playoffs is pretty clutch, let alone increase it.

And if you look at goals, rather than just points, I'd assume it would be an even greater difference.

Edit: And what amateur stats freaks sometimes forget is that the playoffs have always been lower scoring than the regular season, partly because the game tightens up, and partly because all the crappy defenses/goalies didn't make it. So being able to even maintain one's scoring pace in the playoffs is pretty clutch, let alone increase it.

:laugh: that was goals per game. I totally misread RG's post. I was out in the sun all day.