Lou's Priority

hargsy
07-02-2009, 07:46 PM
Hey Devil fans, I have been wondering about Lou our GM and his priorities over the last few seasons.
Do you think he has gone from always building a cup contender...to mainly running a profitable organization?
I have to wonder about all the players and coaches that have left (in a hurry) from this team.
Is Lou that hard to work for, is he losing it ??? I know most of you think he's the best in the business, but is he really still the best, and how long will he run this team?

Richer's Ghost
07-02-2009, 07:48 PM
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=658224

åboriginal
07-02-2009, 07:49 PM
http://thewareaglereader.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/matlock_s1_early.jpg

DEVILS ALL THE WAY
07-02-2009, 07:53 PM
He's still one of the best GM's in the league IMO. The only thing is that we (us Devils fans) want a competitive team NOW and keep our stars but Lou is always thinking 2 or 3 years ahead and that's the reason why he's a little more "conservative" then us fans.

Just my opinion ;)

hargsy
07-02-2009, 08:07 PM
He's still one of the best GM's in the league IMO. The only thing is that we (us Devils fans) want a competitive team NOW and keep our stars but Lou is always thinking 2 or 3 years ahead and that's the reason why he's a little more "conservative" then us fans.

Just my opinion ;)

I think alot of these "star" players could be retained at fair value if they never get to July 1st. We've lost MANY of our home grown talent for nothing, not even a draft pick. It doesnt seem to bother the people on this board, but fans out there notice their favorite player(s) leaving to play for other teams, and start losing interest in the Devils.

blink
07-02-2009, 08:22 PM
I think alot of these "star" players could be retained at fair value if they never get to July 1st. We've lost MANY of our home grown talent for nothing, not even a draft pick. It doesnt seem to bother the people on this board, but fans out there notice their favorite player(s) leaving to play for other teams, and start losing interest in the Devils.

Yeah, we've lost alot of guys over the years but Lou has always managed to keep us competitive through and through. He definitely is one of the best in the business.

Not really sure why some people get all disappointed that we didn't sign someone on July 1st. The results speak for themselves....often teams that make huge free agent signings are the ones who get burned. Lou is smart with his money and just because he didn't sign anyone of "star" caliber to an outrageous contract doesn't mean that he's "lost". You do realize that the salary cap will more than likely be going down next year, probably around 8-10 million...

Every year its the same thing...Rangers sign this guy...Rangers sign that guy....yet who always finishes ahead of them in the standings?? Jersey...

Besides, if you're following the Devils because of a certain player, you're following them for the wrong reason. I'll be a Jersey fan through and through...no matter who they have playing for them.

Classic Devil
07-02-2009, 08:23 PM
I think alot of these "star" players could be retained at fair value if they never get to July 1st. We've lost MANY of our home grown talent for nothing, not even a draft pick. It doesnt seem to bother the people on this board, but fans out there notice their favorite player(s) leaving to play for other teams, and start losing interest in the Devils.
As long as we're successful, this is not a concern.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY
07-02-2009, 08:39 PM
I think alot of these "star" players could be retained at fair value if they never get to July 1st. We've lost MANY of our home grown talent for nothing, not even a draft pick. It doesnt seem to bother the people on this board, but fans out there notice their favorite player(s) leaving to play for other teams, and start losing interest in the Devils.

Lou can't sign his UFA's in the middle of the season cause you never know who's available come july 1st. The only guys you try to lock up before the free agency frenzy are you superstars (Elias, Parise, Martin and Brodeur), the rest can all wait.

hargsy
07-02-2009, 08:57 PM
As long as we're successful, this is not a concern.

I dont wanna get into "Lou should do this or that", but do you think Lou is content with just getting to the playoffs every year ???
He is the one who said "Good is not good enough when better is expected"
My main point of this thread was.... is it all about keeping the Devils in the black on the financial balance sheet..........or more about winning the cup????

Classic Devil
07-02-2009, 09:01 PM
I dont wanna get into "Lou should do this or that", but do you think Lou is content with just getting to the playoffs every year ???
He is the one who said "Good is not good enough when better is expected"
My main point of this thread was.... is it all about keeping the Devils in the black on the financial balance sheet..........or more about winning the cup????
I think Lou not being content is why we let all these people go. I think he believes that we have a better chance of winning by having some roster turnover, and I agree with him.

hargsy
07-02-2009, 09:01 PM
Yeah, we've lost alot of guys over the years but Lou has always managed to keep us competitive through and through. He definitely is one of the best in the business.

Not really sure why some people get all disappointed that we didn't sign someone on July 1st. The results speak for themselves....often teams that make huge free agent signings are the ones who get burned. Lou is smart with his money and just because he didn't sign anyone of "star" caliber to an outrageous contract doesn't mean that he's "lost". You do realize that the salary cap will more than likely be going down next year, probably around 8-10 million...

Every year its the same thing...Rangers sign this guy...Rangers sign that guy....yet who always finishes ahead of them in the standings?? Jersey...

Besides, if you're following the Devils because of a certain player, you're following them for the wrong reason. I'll be a Jersey fan through and through...no matter who they have playing for them.

I do not want Lou to be like Sather and sign the biggest names out there, I just think he could keep our own guys around .........these are the players we scouted / drafted / developed.

Classic Devil
07-02-2009, 09:03 PM
I do not want Lou to be like Sather and sign the biggest names out there, I just think he could keep our own guys around .........these are the players we scouted / drafted / developed.
And used for a combination of about 18 years. Now it's time to start acting like we did in the 90s and give the promising youth a chance to let the roster turnover.

hargsy
07-02-2009, 09:07 PM
And used for a combination of about 18 years. Now it's time to start acting like we did in the 90s and give the promising youth a chance to let the roster turnover.

I'm worried about our pipeline, we havent had high draft picks in the system, like we did in the 90's.
But like someone else said on the Gionta vs Bergfors thread, we're dumping good proven players for "possible" replacements.

Goose Huckabee
07-02-2009, 09:09 PM
I dont wanna get into "Lou should do this or that", but do you think Lou is content with just getting to the playoffs every year ???
He is the one who said "Good is not good enough when better is expected"
My main point of this thread was.... is it all about keeping the Devils in the black on the financial balance sheet..........or more about winning the cup????

Teams make A LOT of money (millions?) with each home game in the playoffs and the increased exposure of going deep undoubtedly bolsters ticket sales the following year and beyond. Not spending to the cap ceiling is small beans to what you stand to make from a cup run.

Classic Devil
07-02-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm worried about our pipeline, we havent had high draft picks in the system, like we did in the 90's.
But like someone else said on the Gionta vs Bergfors thread, we're dumping good proven players for "possible" replacements.
That's a misnomer.

Madden is instantaneously replaced by Zubrus. Frankly, at this point Zubrus is better. He's a possessor as opposed to a transition forward, that's one point in his favor. He's better offensively than Madden is. He's more physical, and he's about equivalent defensively. Madden = replaced from within, and there's no "possible" about it. Zubrus was our "checking" center for most of last center with Elias and Gionta anyway, now it's official.

As for Gionta, Bergfors isn't even the primary replacement. Gionta's minutes are primarily replaced by an increase in responsibility of Rolston and Clarkson, not Bergfors. Bergfors is, at this point, penciled in on the third line, not the second. Do you really think Rolston is that big of a drop off from Gionta? Or Clarkson even, given the other intangibles he brings? It doesn't make sense to call them "possible" replacements when Bergfors isn't even likely to be the player picking up the majority of the now vacant minutes.

Pelley replaces Holik. He played our 4th line center for half of the 07-08 season, he's definitely capable. Leblond and Pikkarainen fill out the 4th line and half the reserves.

As I've been posting:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Rolston <--> Elias - Clarkson
[FA]/Shanahan - Zubrus - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You cannot possibly convince me that this lineup is a dramatic drop-off from the one we had a year ago. It's just not.

Saugus
07-02-2009, 09:14 PM
I do not want Lou to be like Sather and sign the biggest names out there, I just think he could keep our own guys around .........these are the players we scouted / drafted / developed.

For the most part, Lou has kept the big stars that the Devils have produced. Brodeur and Elias are both signed long term, and Lou's lack of moves this offseason guarantees that Martin and Parise will be retained as well. We lost Niedermayer even after we offered him the maximum salary to stay, that isn't Lou's fault. Gomez I think was a) going to leave anyway, and b) clearly wasn't worth the amount it would have taken since the Rangers have been trying to dump his inflated contract ever since they signed it and finally succeeded this year. Rafalski was clearly a mistake, one of the few Lou makes. Gionta and Madden this year are not irreplaceable, and were never stars on the level of others on this list. From all this, I would argue that Lou's record isn't that bad with regards to keeping our homegrown stars through free agency.

hargsy
07-02-2009, 09:14 PM
Teams make A LOT of money (millions?) with each home game in the playoffs and the increased exposure of going deep undoubtedly bolsters ticket sales the following year and beyond. Not spending to the cap ceiling is small beans to what you stand to make from a cup run.

Yeah the Canes actually made a profit this past season going deep.
thats where we shoulda been :nod:

Clarkson Falls Down
07-02-2009, 09:17 PM
That's a misnomer.

Madden is instantaneously replaced by Zubrus. Frankly, at this point Zubrus is better. He's a possessor as opposed to a transition forward, that's one point in his favor. He's better offensively than Madden is. He's more physical, and he's about equivalent defensively. Madden = replaced from within, and there's no "possible" about it. Zubrus was our "checking" center for most of last center with Elias and Gionta anyway, now it's official.

As for Gionta, Bergfors isn't even the primary replacement. Gionta's minutes are primarily replaced by an increase in responsibility of Rolston and Clarkson, not Bergfors. Bergfors is, at this point, penciled in on the third line, not the second. Do you really think Rolston is that big of a drop off from Gionta? Or Clarkson even, given the other intangibles he brings? It doesn't make sense to call them "possible" replacements when Bergfors isn't even likely to be the player picking up the majority of the now vacant minutes.

Pelley replaces Holik. He played our 4th line center for half of the 07-08 season, he's definitely capable. Leblond and Pikkarainen fill out the 4th line and half the reserves.

As I've been posting:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Rolston <--> Elias - Clarkson
[FA]/Shanahan - Zubrus - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You cannot possibly convince me that this lineup is a dramatic drop-off from the one we had a year ago. It's just not.

If the new coach brings a similar style that Sutter did, we will be just as good.

hargsy
07-02-2009, 09:18 PM
That's a misnomer.

Madden is instantaneously replaced by Zubrus. Frankly, at this point Zubrus is better. He's a possessor as opposed to a transition forward, that's one point in his favor. He's better offensively than Madden is. He's more physical, and he's about equivalent defensively. Madden = replaced from within, and there's no "possible" about it. Zubrus was our "checking" center for most of last center with Elias and Gionta anyway, now it's official.

As for Gionta, Bergfors isn't even the primary replacement. Gionta's minutes are primarily replaced by an increase in responsibility of Rolston and Clarkson, not Bergfors. Bergfors is, at this point, penciled in on the third line, not the second. Do you really think Rolston is that big of a drop off from Gionta? Or Clarkson even, given the other intangibles he brings? It doesn't make sense to call them "possible" replacements when Bergfors isn't even likely to be the player picking up the majority of the now vacant minutes.

Pelley replaces Holik. He played our 4th line center for half of the 07-08 season, he's definitely capable. Leblond and Pikkarainen fill out the 4th line and half the reserves.

As I've been posting:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Rolston <--> Elias - Clarkson
[FA]/Shanahan - Zubrus - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You cannot possibly convince me that this lineup is a dramatic drop-off from the one we had a year ago. It's just not.

Maybe not a dramatic drop off.....but are we a better team next season???

Classic Devil
07-02-2009, 09:19 PM
If the new coach brings a similar style that Sutter did, we will be just as good.
This, I think, is the key. Whether or not this offseason is a success will come down to who Lou ends up hiring to coach.

Classic Devil
07-02-2009, 09:21 PM
Maybe not a dramatic drop off.....but are we a better team next season???
How should I know? We haven't had training camp yet, I have no idea how these guys are going to perform. The fact of the matter is we are certainly not worse than we were, we have the potential to be better AND we're not screwed when it comes time to keep Martin a year from now.

Waffle Board
07-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Maybe not a dramatic drop off.....but are we a better team next season???

I really like Classic Devil's plan, and I feel like what we're going to lose with Gio leaving will be made up from (hopefully) Clarkson improving, getting more ice time, and (as in the plan) getting ice time on an offensively minded line with great offensive players, as well as a third line that isn't made up of Pando and Madden. We should see some tertiary scoring out of them, and probably some significant tertiary scoring, assuming Bergfors does well. It could be an improvement, it might not be. We'll see what happens next season. I think we may be pleasantly surprised even without any FA's

captainscott
07-02-2009, 09:47 PM
Yeah, we've lost alot of guys over the years but Lou has always managed to keep us competitive through and through. He definitely is one of the best in the business.

Not really sure why some people get all disappointed that we didn't sign someone on July 1st. The results speak for themselves....often teams that make huge free agent signings are the ones who get burned. Lou is smart with his money and just because he didn't sign anyone of "star" caliber to an outrageous contract doesn't mean that he's "lost". You do realize that the salary cap will more than likely be going down next year, probably around 8-10 million...

Every year its the same thing...Rangers sign this guy...Rangers sign that guy....yet who always finishes ahead of them in the standings?? Jersey...

Besides, if you're following the Devils because of a certain player, you're following them for the wrong reason. I'll be a Jersey fan through and through...no matter who they have playing for them.


Perfectly stated...............i can't imagine that people really thought keeping gionta adn madden was a good idea at 7 or 8 million cap hit.

oduya was the the most important player to retain and that was accomplished. i think gio and madden were great players for this organization and loyal ones. this organization also afforded them to get signed at higher prices than they are worth. so both sides won.

the devils have come to a point were they need their young players to develop and this is the perfect year to get younger and quicker. they still have a very solid core of experieced vets. I still expect another center to be signed because it is a hole and maybe a right handed defensman unless we think corrente is ready

i am not surprised at all so far in this free agency period; all the correct moves have been made or not made to this point. the devils have 3 or 4 forwads that deserve a chacne to develop

jkrdevil
07-02-2009, 11:14 PM
These threads are further proof that many on here are short-sighted and/or bi-polar.

dali
07-03-2009, 07:55 AM
Better prepare yourself, itīs gonna be long-winded this time...

So has Lou shifted focus from winning hockey games to running a profitable franchise? I donīt think there has been a significant change on that department. Of course Vanderbeek and Gilfillan have their say on the hockey bussiness, but the Devils team is still about winning. Winning today, yes, but also about winning tomorrow. Iīd rather see this team be in the mix every year than dismantling the core and tanking and sucking for years on purpose like the Penguins and Capitals and then "become" succesful. It really sucks that teams that are really succesful are not rewarded, but those who give up get the best picks automatically.

The Devils canīt afford to turn into total rebuild especially now with the new arena. And with the way the NY area sports market is structured, the Devils are, and even more so have been, forced to be at least somewhat competetive every year. It is self-evident that heavy-users of hockey like the majority of the members here would stick with the team no matter how it performed, but when it comes to running a profitable ice hockey franchise, the team needs its superstars and success to lure in the occasional souls needed.

In my eyes Lou is still well above average as a GM (and a legend as a whole), despite the evident mistakes he has made before and after the lockout. His accomplishments are far more numerous than his errors and scramblings. Lou may be stubborn and old-fashioned, but he still has eye for things tha no one else wouldīve thought of.

And while the talk of post-Brodeur era is ongoing, maybe it would be time to start to think what will it be after Lou hands the reigns to his heir. I really do believe that the Lamoriello era will be cherished throughly despite "the thin years" on the latter part of the first decade in the 2000īs.

The beginning of the "new" NHL was really difficult for NJ and the team was pretty much a mess. The way this team survived the departures of certain hall of fame -defencemen and living with a thin farm system and being able to hold on to its core (foremost Brodeur, Elias and Langs) is something that not too many franchises couldīve pulled through. The kudos for performing on the ice is upon the players but I really thank Lou for being able to convince these guys that they are well off staying here.

It is always easy to turn on the hindsight-mode and judge Lou, Conte and the rest of the front office for mistakes they īve made when signing free agents or who they have drafted instead of insert a name here. The people running the franchise donīt have this luxury or the luxury of making the ideal decisions or being able just to insert a player to the roster and if the players fails, just press undo and photoshop his face away from the team picture.

And are the Devils a better team than last year after the latest depatures? In July it is far too early to lay judgment, but I really canīt see too many reasons to think things are too bad. Thereīs still the core of players like Brodeur, Parise, Elias and Martin to provide quality performances and leadership to ease the pressure of young players that hopefully vacate a couple positions. Another positive is that after Giontaīs and Maddenīs departure there are a couple of significant roster spots up for grabs. The training camp and the forthcoming season will be exciting.

Just my long-winded two cents. I donīt know if I made any sense.

The Mad Crapper
07-03-2009, 08:00 AM
These threads are further proof that many one here are short-sighted and/or bi-polar.

Ring the bell JK...ring the bell.

How true a statement.

Blackjack
07-03-2009, 11:57 AM
We had one of the best teams in the league last year. I'm more and more convinced that the playoffs don't really mean anything. Especially after seeing San Jose and Boston, clearly the two best teams in the NHL last year, get bounced in the first and second rounds respectively. Pittsburgh was maybe 7th or 8th best in the league, but had a Cinderella run.

This team will make the playoffs, and once we get there we have the same 1/16 chance that everyone else does.

I have to say that I like Classic Devil's lines. Especially because if Bergfors does exceed expectations, it's very easy to move him right up to the second line.

Classic Devil
07-03-2009, 12:00 PM
We had one of the best teams in the league last year. I'm more and more convinced that the playoffs don't really mean anything. Especially after seeing San Jose and Boston, clearly the two best teams in the NHL last year, get bounced in the first and second rounds respectively. Pittsburgh was maybe 7th or 8th best in the league, but had a Cinderella run.

This team will make the playoffs, and once we get there we have the same 1/16 chance that everyone else does.

I have to say that I like Classic Devil's lines. Especially because if Bergfors does exceed expectations, it's very easy to move him right up to the second line.
I feel like those lines are putting players in a position to succeed. Bergfors might not be able to handle a top-6 role right out of the bat, but put him with talent on an offensive third line and you could see some nice supplementary numbers. On the other hand, Rolston definitely needs more icetime with high-talent (like an Elias) and Clarkson earned every minute we can afford to give him.

With Pandolfo exiled with Pelley on the fourth line, he can't do too much harm to us, and Pikkarainen gets a chance to show what he can do on a semi-regular basis on what could be a semi-decent shutdown line (although the Zajac line is our primary shutdown unit).

Give everyone a chance to succeed.

brule2000
07-03-2009, 05:23 PM
These threads are further proof that many one here are short-sighted and/or bi-polar.

Funnily enough, I have been clinically diagnosed as suffering from both of these. Say no to laser surgery and lithium!!!:handclap:

I see this offseason as a managed rebuilding. Since the lockout the gaps have had to be plugged with, possibly inadequate, free agents in an attempt to give a very strong core of veterans, with knowledge of winning, the opportunity to grab an improbable cup in the maelstrom of the playoffs. It just could have happened if everything fell into place. But it increasingly felt like hanging on to a speeding train by your fingernails, knowing that once it started to reach full steam you weren't going to have the tools to hang on and get inside.

Now there are the beginnings to a depth of prospects available to plug in over the next three to five years. The Brodeur window is beginning to close and every effort was made to squeeze a fourth piece of silverware through it before it slammed shut.

With Sutter also leaving his post the accent is being moved onto development and building a younger squad around a new core that has had an opportunity to learn from the knowledgeable old guard and learn harsh lessons, in dissappointment.

Gionta at $5 million, Madden at $2.75 million are too much.....Gionta at $2.75 million maybe.

The team that is coming together looks like a job for Lemaire to me. I've wanted Haviland, Dineen or Nolan. I don't think Nolan was ever a likely choice and less so with this team. Is it asking too much for a rookie coach? I think that depends on expectations. These will have been lowered, but by how much?

vtfannjdevils
07-05-2009, 09:53 PM
These threads are further proof that many on here are short-sighted and/or bi-polar.

My ex-wife is bi-polar.

titans04
07-05-2009, 11:37 PM
That's a misnomer.

Madden is instantaneously replaced by Zubrus. Frankly, at this point Zubrus is better. He's a possessor as opposed to a transition forward, that's one point in his favor. He's better offensively than Madden is. He's more physical, and he's about equivalent defensively. Madden = replaced from within, and there's no "possible" about it. Zubrus was our "checking" center for most of last center with Elias and Gionta anyway, now it's official.

As for Gionta, Bergfors isn't even the primary replacement. Gionta's minutes are primarily replaced by an increase in responsibility of Rolston and Clarkson, not Bergfors. Bergfors is, at this point, penciled in on the third line, not the second. Do you really think Rolston is that big of a drop off from Gionta? Or Clarkson even, given the other intangibles he brings? It doesn't make sense to call them "possible" replacements when Bergfors isn't even likely to be the player picking up the majority of the now vacant minutes.

Pelley replaces Holik. He played our 4th line center for half of the 07-08 season, he's definitely capable. Leblond and Pikkarainen fill out the 4th line and half the reserves.

As I've been posting:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Rolston <--> Elias - Clarkson
[FA]/Shanahan - Zubrus - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You cannot possibly convince me that this lineup is a dramatic drop-off from the one we had a year ago. It's just not.


That lineup ensures we're not a serious cup contender. Glad you can be excited about a lineup that includes forwards named, Rolston (after his play last year), Clarkson on the 2nd line, an over the hill Shannahan for a full season, Zubrus who's an over paid underperformer, Bergfors, Pandolfo who at this point is a candidate to be a healthy scratch on a good team, Pelly and PLL. Oh and some castoff named Pikkarainen. Throw in a couple weak defensemen and we have all the makings of another first round exit.

The game has passed Lou by since the inception of the cap. HOF'er no doubt for what he's done in the distant past.

Classic Devil
07-05-2009, 11:42 PM
That lineup ensures we're not a serious cup contender. Glad you can be excited about a lineup that includes forwards named, Rolston (after his play last year), Clarkson on the 2nd line, an over the hill Shannahan for a full season, Zubrus who's an over paid underperformer, Bergfors, Pandolfo who at this point is a candidate to be a healthy scratch on a good team, Pelly and PLL. Oh and some castoff named Pikkarainen. Throw in a couple weak defensemen and we have all the makings of another first round exit.

The game has passed Lou by since the inception of the cap. HOF'er no doubt for what he's done in the distant past.
Whether or not that lineup is a serious contender depends entirely on the names we have on defense.

Rolston is impossible to judge after one season, I don't see what's wrong with Clarkson on the second line so long as the third line is competitive offensively, Zubrus is a premiere defensive forward in the NHL and proved it last season - playing on the second line, not the third, he was clearly better than Madden in the role. And the fourth line only gets marginal minutes, so as long as they're good niche players (remember 2000? 2003? Only in 1995 did we have a truly elite 4th line) who gives a damn?

kyle evs48
07-05-2009, 11:44 PM
I don't think we're serious contenders next year. I think it might end up being a mini-build year for us.

Classic Devil
07-05-2009, 11:51 PM
I don't think we're serious contenders next year. I think it might end up being a mini-build year for us.
What we are right now is totally unpredictable. The potential is there, though, if we find a way to add that missing elite defenseman.

jensi
07-06-2009, 12:18 AM
zubrus was probably signed long-term to have a better "madden" for some years.. when maddens contract expired.

blink
07-06-2009, 05:00 PM
I do not want Lou to be like Sather and sign the biggest names out there, I just think he could keep our own guys around .........these are the players we scouted / drafted / developed.

In the pre-lockout NHL, yes I would have agreed with your statement here.

However, in the salary cap NHL, it is a fact that you cannot simply keep everyone you want to keep. Roster turnover is becoming more and more prevalent and free agency has a much bigger effect on a team's short-term and long-term fortunes than ever before.

How do you solve the potential disasters that bad free agency spending causes? By building through the draft and having a deep farm system. Two years ago, our farm system was very very weak. Now, it's looking alot better and will continue to grow.

The evidence of this is the Gionta/Madden scenario. Two reasons why we let them go. One, we simply could not afford them (something we didnt have to worry about pre-lockout). Two, we do have cheaper replacements available to us. Again, in order to continue to be successful in the post-lockout NHL, you need to have a constant supply of young players who will replace some vets at a much much cheaper price for 2-3 years.

hargsy
07-06-2009, 07:00 PM
In the pre-lockout NHL, yes I would have agreed with your statement here.

However, in the salary cap NHL, it is a fact that you cannot simply keep everyone you want to keep. Roster turnover is becoming more and more prevalent and free agency has a much bigger effect on a team's short-term and long-term fortunes than ever before.

How do you solve the potential disasters that bad free agency spending causes? By building through the draft and having a deep farm system. Two years ago, our farm system was very very weak. Now, it's looking alot better and will continue to grow.

The evidence of this is the Gionta/Madden scenario. Two reasons why we let them go. One, we simply could not afford them (something we didnt have to worry about pre-lockout). Two, we do have cheaper replacements available to us. Again, in order to continue to be successful in the post-lockout NHL, you need to have a constant supply of young players who will replace some vets at a much much cheaper price for 2-3 years.

Our pipeline is improving........
I just thought Lou was so frugal before the cap that now adays he would be by far the best at keeping a team's payroll down and retaining talent compared to other teams, but we seem to be struggling a bit, as some contracts are too big for the performance of the players.
And the main reason I'm concerned is Marty is getting up there in age

njdevilsownnhl
07-07-2009, 01:20 PM
This team will be better through subtraction. Madden is old and not good anymore. Take your homer glasses off. What is so great about Gionta? The fact that he only does well in contract years? Oh, but if we gave him a play making center he would score 40 goals again. No because you can't score 40 goals shooting into the goalies chest every shot.

Richer's Ghost
07-07-2009, 01:54 PM
This team will be better through subtraction. Madden is old and not good anymore. Take your homer glasses off. What is so great about Gionta? The fact that he only does well in contract years? Oh, but if we gave him a play making center he would score 40 goals again. No because you can't score 40 goals shooting into the goalies chest every shot.

Candidate for "I LIKE MY CROW SERVED RARE" award next year. I'm calling it now.

CMac17
07-07-2009, 03:25 PM
Candidate for "I LIKE MY CROW SERVED RARE" award next year. I'm calling it now.

Absolutely. But hey, at least I can (sort of) root for Gomez if they wind up together.

...Punch my ticket for the O-train though - the pipeline is improving because in today's NHL, they FINALLY have to un-clog it!!!

AfroThunder396
07-07-2009, 03:43 PM
People think "rebuilding" means top 5 draft picks, under .500 records, and stockpiling picks and/or prospects. That's simply not true.

The Devils have been rebuilding for the last 4 years now.

We've gotten rid of the slow clunking dinosaurs Like Jeff Friesen, Grant Marshall, Viktor Kozlov, and Richard Matvichuk and replaced them with younger, cheaper, more dynamic younger players like Zach Parise, Travis Zajac, David Clarkson, and Johnny Oduya.

At the same time Lou's learned how and when to cut ties with established players that we know and love while knowing which players SHOULD be resigned and for what price.

Scott Gomez: 64 pts @ $7.357M vs. 60 pts @ $5M
Brian Gionta: $5.0M [60 pts]
Brian Rafalski: 57 pts @ $6.0M vs. 55 pts @ $4.2M
John Madden: $2.75M [23 pts]
Brad Lukowich: 8 pts, +5 @ $1.567M vs. 12 pts, +1 @ $800k
Scott Clemmenson: $1.2M [25 wins 2 shutouts 2.39 GAA .917 SV%]

If we were on the hook for all 6 of those contracts right now, it would have cost the organization an extra $101,400,000.00

Patrik Elias: $6.0M, 202 pts since
Martin Brodeur: $5.2M, 110 wins 16 shutouts 2.21 GAA .920 SV% since
Zach Parise: $3.125M, 159 pts since
Paul Martin: $3.833M, 65 pts, +41 since
Johnny Oduya: $3.0M, [29 pts +21]

The second group of players scored more points for much less money last year than the top group despite having one less player.

Our prospect pool has grown dramatically over the past 4 years after the bare-bones drafting we did between '98-'02. We're stocked a skilled wingers, offensive defenseman, big mobile stay at home defensemen, power forwards, and boom-or-bust prospects. We have skill at all positions and only lack depth at goaltending.

Not to mention three unsigned free agents on the team, two of which were undrafted (the other being Oduya who had been dismissed by his team).

Even his "failure" free agent signings have been anything but. Mogilny and McGillis had absolutely no negative effects on the team at all. Malakhov cost us a first round pick, but given the choice between a first round pick and re-signing all of our valuable free agents, the choice is really quite obvious.

Zubrus, while never being a go to offensive player, has put up a respectable 38 and 40 points a season. He's a massive physical player, a very good checking forward, and can play center or wing. Given the contract inflation around the league his $3.4M a season is actually quite reasonable for the versatility he brings to the table. And Brian Rolston was injured early in the season, lost a top 6 role through no fault of his own, produced secondary scoring on his own and stepped up admirably when the captain was injured. Still has great speed for for a +35 year old player and can also play center or wing.

Two years ago, losing Brodeur for more than 5 games at a time would have caused massive panic and a significant drop in the standings. The fact that were were not only to ice a competent team without him but actually win the division by a fairly large margin is a testament to how well this team has been re-built the last 4 years.

It still baffles me how some people still don't see Lou as a top 3 GM in the league.

Richer's Ghost
07-07-2009, 03:46 PM
Check out the big brain on AfroThunder!

http://www.stippy.com/wp/wp-content/zuploads/2008/06/pulp_fiction_jules_sprite.jpg

:clap:

Well done.

The Jersey Devil
07-07-2009, 04:14 PM
Check out the big brain on AfroThunder!

:clap:

Well done.

AfroThunder and his precious facts are not welcome on this board. Good day sir.

RMBoner Stabone
07-07-2009, 04:14 PM
Lou failed, he didn't sign Hossa for 12 years or go bankrupt and have the opportunity to draft Malkin and Crosby in back to back years or sign Redden.