Gionta v Bergfors

Clearly this needs its own thread since the argument's tentacles have reached into and taken over just about every other one we have.

I, and I think I speak for everyone here, concede the fact that Bergfors isn't going to step right in and be a 60 point guy that's also a solid forechecker and defender while providing locker room leadership. He won't, and the Devils will be the worse for it come September. So, please, pretty please, with sugar on top, don't argue about this.

I thought about writing some long apologia for Bergfors and the way these last 4 years have gone for him, coming over as a 17-year-old Swedish kid and blah blah blah boo hoo hoo, but I don't expect that to resonate with anyone who's not just sad to see Gio go but angered by the fact so many others seem to be happy and have got their way.

The fact of the matter is Gio's been a good and sometimes great player for the Devils, but now the time has come for someone else to do the same. You're entitled to your misgivings about any particular player, but I think those of you simply writing Bergfors off because of his "unimpressive" AHL numbers are too quick to judge and, in all likelihood, hypocritical for using numbers as the basis of an argument.

The only numbers that have any place being in this argument are 5, as in the number of years Gionta just signed for, and 25, as in the number in millions of dollars he'll be paid over those 5 years. A $5M cap hit for the next 5 years. I can unequivocally say the Devils are better off not giving Gionta that deal, and not just in the long run but next year as well when we may need to make a trade. You could have held a gun to his head and poured roofies and LSD down his throat and not gotten Lou to sign that.

Agree with me, don't agree with me. I don't really care. What's done is done and Lou and the Devils are moving forward. So should we.

I'm excited to see Bergfors get a chance. He looked very good when he did play, all 2 games so far. I remember he almost scored in his first game. The kid has obvious skill and it's annoying when I read responses that he will be luck to score 25 points...give me a break.

I think letting Gionta go was a good decision at that price, but not Madden. At his price we could have easily afforded him for at least one more year.

agreed. so far the devils off season has gone exactly how i envisioned it. with all the UFA;s departing and rightfully so. anyone that looked at the numbers should have already known that the signing of oduya was going to be the big deal, and the contract that zajac is going to get.

maybe there is room to bring in one more mid level signing. but as has been mentioned it's time for the devils to let their few young guys get their shot. we have some talent that needs to be given a chance for better or worse.

I think letting Gionta go was a good decision at that price, but not Madden. At his price we could have easily afforded him for at least one more year.

That's what I thought too. Letting Gio go at that price was a good decision, but letting Gio and Madden go was a bad one.

That's what I thought too. Letting Gio go at that price was a good decision, but letting Gio and Madden go was a bad one.

i disagree, i think at almost 3 million per the devils can do better with pelley at 900K instead of madden who will be 36 yrs old.

madden is still a good player but with the future of the cap i say good riddance and lets not forget that parise will command around 6 or 7 million per year soon.

i say this team needs younger legs and i think that is where its headed

We let go a known commodity for an unknown, unproven one.

This decision will adversely affect both our offense and our defense as Gionta was one of our better defensive forwards.

Bergfors hasn’t show anything to indicate he is capable of being here -- Let alone get top 6 minutes -- In the 8 games he got this past season, he often looked lost and over matched. Halischuk made more of an impression in his 1 game.


I also do not believe for 1 minute Gionta would have cost us 5M.

Playing with Patty and Rolsten, Bergfors should have a similar season to Zajac's rookie season.

i disagree, i think at almost 3 million per the devils can do better with pelley at 900K instead of madden who will be 36 yrs old.

madden is still a good player but with the future of the cap i say good riddance and lets not forget that parise will command around 6 or 7 million per year soon.

i say this team needs younger legs and i think that is where its headed

Madden only signed a one year contract which wouldn't have any influence on keeping Martin and Parise. But sometimes it is just better to move on.

It's all about the dollars.

Bergfors is a very talented and creative player. Realistically, I think he should be able to put up around 15 goals and 25 assists playing with Patty and a healthy Rolston.

I'd be more than happy with that result.

I'll say 43 points for Bergy

Add up the goals and asts anyway you want. i'll say 17g 26ast

It's all about the dollars.



I said this in the other thread I say it here....


Do you know how much Gionta was offered and how much he was asking??? I don't.

But I bet we will will find out in the up coming days this was a Rafalski situation as far as money goes.

I'll say 43 points for Bergy

Add up the goals and asts anyway you want. i'll say 17g 26ast

I'll say back in Lowell By December and back in Sweden by 2011.

Bergfors will remain in Lowell. Gionta's spot will go to Rolston and Rolston's spot will go to our free agent signing coming sometime today... Rusland Fedatenko. Kill me now.

Bergfors will remain in Lowell. Gionta's spot will go to Rolston and Rolston's spot will go to our free agent signing coming sometime today... Rusland Fedatenko. Kill me now.

If Bergfors doesn't get a shot then alot of this does become a WTF moment. But after lou's comments I think he's c committed to getting our young guys up.

If Bergfors doesn't get a shot then alot of this does become a WTF moment. But after lou's comments I think he's c committed to getting our young guys up.

Lou is committed to winning. Nothing else

Bergfors hasn’t show anything to indicate he is capable of being here -- Let alone get top 6 minutes -- In the 8 games he got this past season, he often looked lost and over matched.

Right on. He looked absolutely scared/cautious out there, chipping the puck and seemingly rushing back to the bench every shift. I'm sure Sutter playing him 5 minutes didn't help his confidence but it's time for Bergfors to actually earn his spot. I don't want to hear anything else about him if he can't do it this year.

We let go a known commodity for an unknown, unproven one.

This decision will adversely affect both our offense and our defense as Gionta was one of our better defensive forwards.

Bergfors hasn’t show anything to indicate he is capable of being here -- Let alone get top 6 minutes -- In the 8 games he got this past season, he often looked lost and over matched. Halischuk made more of an impression in his 1 game.


I also do not believe for 1 minute Gionta would have cost us 5M.

How do you know Halischuk won't take Gionta's spot over Bergfors?

How do you know Halischuk won't take Gionta's spot over Bergfors?

I'm high on Halischuk....But None of our forward prospects are ready to step in and play a significant role...Not one.

These guys are all still in the "Cup of Coffee" mode....They should be expected to get their feet wet and not perform a role.

EDIT: So to me that means you need a stop-gap measure....2.75 for 1 year was too much for Madden? For just one year to transition players in?

Madden and Gionta were simply let go -- That is a problem when you haven't been transitioning rookies in the lineup for the last 2 years. In my mind if your gonna let a veteran walk you should have had a guy playing 20 or 30 games the previous year. We haven't been doing that - and its down right stupid to do it after you let those vets walk because now those young players aren't transitioning, they forced into the mix.

Lou is committed to winning. Nothing else

:laugh:
We haven't been doing that when it counts.

Bergfors will remain in Lowell. Gionta's spot will go to Rolston and Rolston's spot will go to our free agent signing coming sometime today... Rusland Fedatenko. Kill me now.


Bergfors will be on the big team, all year, not in lowell. He'll finally get a good look and play on a decent line instead of on the 4th and playing 5mins per game. Im excited about Bergy getting a shot.

About Ruslan? he's a weenie!

Gionta at $5M is clinically insane. That is all.

EDIT: So to me that means you need a stop-gap measure....2.75 for 1 year was too much for Madden? For just one year to transition players in?

I believe Lou wanted to change the personality of the team. Getting rid of Madden, regardless of the amount we could have signed him for as a stopgap, was a necessary component of that endeavor.

When's the last time a rookie played in the top 6 for the Devils?

I seriously doubt that Bergfors will play top 6 minutes next season.

On top of that, if Lemaire is the coach... I seriously doubt Bergfors makes the big club out of camp.

The top 6 will be:

Parise-Zajac-Langs
Elias-Zubrus-Rolston

I agree that Bergfors won't replace Gionta's offensive production and more importantly his defensive responsibilities but as long as he knows not to shoot at the goalies logo and actually at an open spot, i won't be upset.

I'm excited to see Bergfors get a chance. He looked very good when he did play, all 2 games so far. I remember he almost scored in his first game. The kid has obvious skill and it's annoying when I read responses that he will be luck to score 25 points...give me a break.

Bergie did score, in the first period of his 2nd (officially, 1st really) NHL game, whilst playing with Zubrus.

He had 5 minutes of ice time in that period, he looked shifty, dangerous and confident.

Sutter played him for a grand 3 minutes after that. Sutter is dumb dumb.

EDIT: Watch the video on his NHL page. The kid has skills and can shoot. http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471697&view=stats

Bergie did score, in the first period of his 2nd (officially, 1st really) NHL game, whilst playing with Zubrus.

He had 5 minutes of ice time in that period, he looked shifty, dangerous and confident.

Sutter played him for a grand 3 minutes after that. Sutter is dumb dumb.

EDIT: Watch the video on his NHL page. The kid has skills and can shoot. http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471697&view=stats

He handled himself pretty well against the boards.

He handled himself pretty well against the boards.

People have no idea what the kid can do. They look at his stats in Lowell and think "meh, bust".

I think that Bergfors will replace Gionta in a manner of speaking. The time has come. Bergfors had a break out season in Lowell. I think that he might have figure out what it takes to play in the bigs. In the hockey news future watch Bergfors was number 2 on the prospect list for NJ. Also in the article David Conte stated that Bergfors is clearly a NHL player. Bergfors has skill, speed. I think it was just a matter of time until he put it all together and matured.

People have no idea what the kid can do. They look at his stats in Lowell and think "meh, bust".

Yea, i'm actually happy he's replacing Gionta. Now hopefully someone will actually pass to Elias instead of shoot at the goalies logo.

People have no idea what the kid can do. They look at his stats in Lowell and think "meh, bust".

That's what I've been saying. How do you know he doesn't come in and score 30?? No one knows, but these ridiculous prejudgments are absurd.

That's what I've been saying. How do you know he doesn't come in and score 30?? No one knows, but these ridiculous prejudgments are absurd.

Go back to this time last year, who would of predicted that James Neal (Dallas Star) would have had a 24 goal season?

You never know what you have until you give them a fair shake.

Yea, i'm actually happy he's replacing Gionta. Now hopefully someone will actually pass to Elias instead of shoot at the goalies logo.

We don't know yet if he's replacing Gionta.

He still needs to make the team out of camp.

Go back to this time last year, who would of predicted that James Neal (Dallas Star) would have had a 24 goal season?

You never know what you have until you give them a fair shake.

I'd rather just be irrational and write him off for no reason, regardless of his scouting reports of tremendous offensive potential.

We don't know yet if he's replacing Gionta.

He still needs to make the team out of camp.

Yea, i know. Just judging on which prospects who could best replace him, i'd imagine it would be him. Just an expectation on my part.

When's the last time a rookie played in the top 6 for the Devils?
I seriously doubt that Bergfors will play top 6 minutes next season.

On top of that, if Lemaire is the coach... I seriously doubt Bergfors makes the big club out of camp.

The top 6 will be:

Parise-Zajac-Langs
Elias-Zubrus-Rolston

This again? Parise played on the top line with Gomez and Gionta for the second half of his rookie year.

And Zajac spent most of his rookie year on the 2nd line between Parise and Langenbrunner (when EGG was the top line). Edit: Although I guess with Julien as coach, they were really the 3rd line behind the Madden line, but they were still technically the 2nd scoring line.

People have no idea what the kid can do. They look at his stats in Lowell and think "meh, bust".

I just hope he strength trains this summer. He was a little small / frail. Especially if he hurt his shoulders. He needs to toughen up a lot.

Look at the difference it made in Zajac. I think Bergfors was a bit scared coming up in the NHL last year. Adding strength would add confidence.

Gionta vs. Bergfors??

Gionta takes him in the 3rd round. Berg's guard is weak and the shoulder injuries make his counter punches slow.

I said this in the other thread I say it here....


Do you know how much Gionta was offered and how much he was asking??? I don't.

But I bet we will will find out in the up coming days this was a Rafalski situation as far as money goes.

Despite "mutual interest" between Gio and the Devils, he never received an offer from Lou.

This again? Parise played on the top line with Gomez and Gionta for the second half of his rookie year.

And Zajac spent most of his rookie year on the 2nd line between Parise and Langenbrunner (when EGG was the top line). Edit: Although I guess with Julien as coach, they were really the 3rd line behind the Madden line, but they were still technically the 2nd scoring line.

Bergfors will get a shot to impress at camp. I still don't think he'll be penciled into the top 6 winger spot immediately, he has to earn it. He will probably start the preseason on the wing of a third line that has scoring potential, not relegated to the fourth line with scrubs like he has in the past. If he impresses, he can be moved up to the second line. If he sucks, send him back down. But he deserves the shot to have that baptism by fire.

I like this plan because Bergfors won't too have much pressure on him to succeed, because ZZPops and Elias and whoever starts on his line can carry the offence even without Bergfors producing. But he still has the motivation to do well so he will be moved to the second line and have the opportunity to play with more talented players.

I definitely think Bergfors can replace Gionta's 20 goals. He has a terrific shot and uses it quite a bit. He won't get as many assists because he won't create as many turnovers.

I think many of you Bergfors haters will be pleasantly surprised.

This again? Parise played on the top line with Gomez and Gionta for the second half of his rookie year.

And Zajac spent most of his rookie year on the 2nd line between Parise and Langenbrunner (when EGG was the top line). Edit: Although I guess with Julien as coach, they were really the 3rd line behind the Madden line, but they were still technically the 2nd scoring line.

Comparing Bergfors to Gionta is silly enough, don't compare Berfors to Parise, it's not fair.

Even Parise played most of that season as a bottom 6 wing.

Over the time that Lou has been GM, the only rookies I can remember getting consistent top minutes are K.Todd, S.Neidermeyer, P.Sykora, S.Gomez, and thats about it.

On top of all that, if Lemaire really is going to be the coach, what chance does Bergfors have to play in the top 6?

Comparing Bergfors to Gionta is silly enough, don't compare Berfors to Parise, it's not fair.

Even Parise played most of that season as a bottom 6 wing.

Over the time that Lou has been GM, the only rookies I can remember getting consistent top minutes are K.Todd, S.Neidermeyer, P.Sykora, S.Gomez, and thats about it.

On top of all that, if Lemaire really is going to be the coach, what chance does Bergfors have to play in the top 6?

You asked when was the last time a rookie played in the top 6.

He answered Parise.

He's not comparing, he's answering your question.

You asked when was the last time a rookie played in the top 6.

He answered Parise.

He's not comparing, he's asking your question.

So would you say that its common that rookies get top minutes for the Devils?

I definitely think Bergfors can replace Gionta's 20 goals. He has a terrific shot and uses it quite a bit. He won't get as many assists because he won't create as many turnovers.

Bergfors also likely will have a better centre than Zubrus. Right now, barring any signing, it looks like one of Rolston or Elias will be playing there, with the other playing left wing. Elias, Zubrus, and Gionta together had 66 goals last season. Assuming Elias has anywhere close to the season he had last year, and Rolston bounces back, our second line might actually be better this year if Bergfors scores more than 15.

So would you say that its common that rookies get top minutes for the Devils?

No, because the Devils always have good teams. We aren't the Islanders.

But it's ridiculous to say that it hasn't happened and it won't happen next season.

Comparing Bergfors to Gionta is silly enough, don't compare Berfors to Parise, it's not fair.

Even Parise played most of that season as a bottom 6 wing.

Over the time that Lou has been GM, the only rookies I can remember getting consistent top minutes are K.Todd, S.Neidermeyer, P.Sykora, S.Gomez, and thats about it.

On top of all that, if Lemaire really is going to be the coach, what chance does Bergfors have to play in the top 6?
Lemaire isn't going to be coach. Add Shanahan, Zajac, White, Rafalski, Martin.

No, because the Devils always have good teams. We aren't the Islanders.

But it's ridiculous to say that it hasn't happened and it won't happen next season.

Hey, I'd love to see Bergfors get a chance with the top 6, but I just don't see it.

It's just not in the Devils DNA. Lou will find another solution. If Bergfors makes the club, he play on a third or fourth line. Just my opinion.

Hey, I'd love to see Bergfors get a chance with the top 6, but I just don't see it.

It's just not in the Devils DNA. Lou will find another solution. If Bergfors makes the club, he play on a third or fourth line. Just my opinion.

He'll probably start on the third line with guys who can score. If he impresses he will get moved up. I don't know where this puts Clarkson though, Lou has said he wants to get more playing time for him, so I would imagine one of them has to play their off wing unless Bergfors starts on the second, because neither of them will be playing on the fourth line.

He'll probably start on the third line with guys who can score. If he impresses he will get moved up. I don't know where this puts Clarkson though, Lou has said he wants to get more playing time for him, so I would imagine one of them has to play their off wing unless Bergfors starts on the second, because neither of them will be playing on the fourth line.
Clarkson second line RW.

Clarkson second line RW.

That will be an interesting group of lines:

ZZ Pops
Elias-Rolston-Clarkson
Shanahan/UFA?-Zubrus-Bergfors
Pandolfo/Leblond-Pelley-Halischuk

Or are you still thinking Lang or Koivu?

ZZ Pops
Elias-Lang/Koivu-Clarkson
Rolston-Zubrus-Bergfors
Pandolfo/Leblond-Pelley-Halischuk/Shanahan?

Either way I'll be really impressed if Clarkson shows he has the scoring talent to justify being on the second line. My feeling is that Bergfors will probably impress enough to be moved up to the second sometime during the season.

I truly do not believe that Bergfors will be a different player if he plays on the 3rd line. The player that some people think here a "Bust".

He needs to play with top line talent if he isnt going to be on the top 2 lines i see kno point in having him on the roster.

If they are looking for a 3rd line RW with scoring touch then Halischuk is ur man not Bergfors.

So...

ZZPop
Rolston Elias Bergfors

If not and its

ZZPop
Elias Zubrus Rolston

Then back to Lowell with young Bergfors

I dont kno about Clarkson at a 2nd line RW i would rather have him on the 3rd or 4th line i think prob the 3rd.

I really think people are underrating bergfors . . If he makes the top 6 on a line with elias and rolston, i could see him going 20-30+ . . maybe even a candidate for ROY

I really think people are underrating bergfors . . If he makes the top 6 on a line with elias and rolston, i could see him going 20-30+ . . maybe even a candidate for ROY

I like Bergfors a lot and I think that he will finally stick in New Jersey this year, but saying he will get consideration for the Calder is a bit much even for me. If he produces 15G 20A 35Pts I'll be happy. Time will tell, and of course I hope you're right.

That's what I've been saying. How do you know he doesn't come in and score 30?? No one knows, but these ridiculous prejudgments are absurd.

You even mentioning Bergfors and 30 goals in the same sentence is also absurd.

I'm disappointed that Vrana left, he could have defiantley got to stay on the lineup for a while.

My preference for roster is:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Rolston <--> Elias - Clarkson
[FA]/Shanahan - Zubrus - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

Oduya - Martin
Salvador - Greene/Corrente
White - Mottau

Brodeur
[FA]

I'm disappointed that Vrana left, he could have defiantley got to stay on the lineup for a while.

He's definitely better than Pelley. Not sure where he would have fit in though, somehow I don't see him being able to hack it as the second line centre. Then again, Elias and Rolston are talented enough wingers that they might be able to make anybody look good.

He's definitely better than Pelley. Not sure where he would have fit in though, somehow I don't see him being able to hack it as the second line centre. Then again, Elias and Rolston are talented enough wingers that they might be able to make anybody look good.
No he's not. Pelley has already got half a season as a 4th line defensive centerman under his belt.

You even mentioning Bergfors and 30 goals in the same sentence is also absurd.

Why? Whose to say he isn't rookie of the year? Again, people need to stop underestimating the kid for no reason. Lou said he needs to play in the top 6...when was the last time he said that about a rookie? Exactly.

No he's not. Pelley has already got half a season as a 4th line defensive centerman under his belt.

I should have clarified. Pelley is the better defensive centre. Vrana undeniably has more talent and scoring/playmaking potential, he might have been an option to centre the second or third line so we could move either Rolston or Zubrus to the wing. It's too bad that when we finally have an opening of sorts for him he's signed in Europe.

Why? Whose to say he isn't rookie of the year? Again, people need to stop underestimating the kid for no reason. Lou said he needs to play in the top 6...when was the last time he said that about a rookie? Exactly.

Others need to stop overestimating him so much. I'm not saying it's impossible that he could be rookie of the year, it's just unlikely. I also doubt he will tank as badly as some are predicting. Some of us are really high on Bergfors and others trash him mercilessly, and not a one of us knows jack **** for sure until training camp this year.

I could see a third line of Zubrus-Pelley-Bergfors/Clarkson.

Why? Whose to say he isn't rookie of the year? Again, people need to stop underestimating the kid for no reason. Lou said he needs to play in the top 6...when was the last time he said that about a rookie? Exactly.

I hope he scores 80... but I just think it's wishful thinking.

Bobby Ryan only scored 31 goals last year with Ryan Getzlaf as his center for most of the season.

I've only seen him play about 10 times, but I just don't think Bergfors is Bobby Ryan.

Others need to stop overestimating him so much. I'm not saying it's impossible that he could be rookie of the year, it's just unlikely. I also doubt he will tank as badly as some are predicting. Some of us are really high on Bergfors and others trash him mercilessly, and not a one of us knows jack **** for sure until training camp this year.

That's the thing, not many are overestimating him. It's people underestimating him so drastically that when someone gives a realistic goal and assist total for him, the underestimaters freak out for no reason. The kid made the team 2 years ago and wasn't given a chance last year, why wouldn't he make it this year?

We let go a known commodity for an unknown, unproven one.
This decision will adversely affect both our offense and our defense as Gionta was one of our better defensive forwards.

Bergfors hasn’t show anything to indicate he is capable of being here -- Let alone get top 6 minutes -- In the 8 games he got this past season, he often looked lost and over matched. Halischuk made more of an impression in his 1 game.


I also do not believe for 1 minute Gionta would have cost us 5M.

I agree, and I know everybody wants the young guys to come up...fine, but Lou didnt even offer Gio a contract at all. A team player WHO ACTUALLY WANTED TO REMAIN A DEVIL. I really cant stand July 1st anymore as a Devil fan.:shakehead

That's the thing, not many are overestimating him. It's people underestimating him so drastically that when someone gives a realistic goal and assist total for him, the underestimaters freak out for no reason. The kid made the team 2 years ago and wasn't given a chance last year, why wouldn't he make it this year?

You're preaching to the choir here, I firmly believe that Bergfors's shoulder injuries two years ago are the only reason why he isn't already a regular on the team. But I think I'm being more realistic about his production this season than you are. Even if he plays with Elias and Rolston, he will need some time to adjust to the NHL level. I don't expect him to start the season on a tear, and I hope the new coach will be patient with him until he starts clicking. I really doubt he can match Gionta's goal total, but I'm not worried about that, because Elias is Elias and Rolston should cover the slack by having a bounce back year. I think he'll be able to put up 15-20-35, any more than that and I'll be thrilled.

You're preaching to the choir here, I firmly believe that Bergfors's shoulder injuries two years ago are the only reason why he isn't already a regular on the team. But I think I'm being more realistic about his production this season than you are. Even if he plays with Elias and Rolston, he will need some time to adjust to the NHL level. I don't expect him to start the season on a tear, and I hope the new coach will be patient with him until he starts clicking. I really doubt he can match Gionta's goal total, but I'm not worried about that, because Elias is Elias and Rolston should cover the slack by having a bounce back year. I think he'll be able to put up 15-20-35, any more than that and I'll be thrilled.

I agree, I think he could do that, if he's given the opportunity. i question whether he'll get the opportunity.

Despite "mutual interest" between Gio and the Devils, he never received an offer from Lou.

inside info?

http://static.amctv.com/img/movienights/dvdtv/wall_street/dvdtv_wallstreet_425x245.jpg

My preference for roster is:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Rolston <--> Elias - Clarkson
[FA]/Shanahan - Zubrus - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond


I'd go with this:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Rolston - Bergfors
Shanahan - Zubrus - Clarkson
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You've gotta give Bergfors a legitimate shot to play with NHL talent for once. Plus, he has far more offensive skill than Clarkson. You cant have a guy that randomly falls an average of 1.2 times per shift on a scoring line.



Oduya - Martin
Salvador - Greene/Corrente
White - Mottau

Brodeur
[FA]

Corrente - Martin
Oduya - Salvador
White - Mottau

Greene extra

I'd start like this in preseason. Lets see what Corrent has and if he's ready, and protect him a bit with Martin. Plus, I always thought it was Stupid with a capital 's' for Sutter to play Oduya with Martin. The 2 Dmen capable of offense and he puts them on the same pairing? Far better to split them up. White and Mottau do well together, leave them alone.

I'd go with this:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Rolston - Bergfors
Shanahan - Zubrus - Clarkson
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You've gotta give Bergfors a legitimate shot to play with NHL talent for once. Plus, he has far more offensive skill than Clarkson. You cant have a guy that randomly falls an average of 1.2 times per shift on a scoring line.




Corrente - Martin
Oduya - Salvador
White - Mottau

Greene extra

I'd start like this in preseason. Lets see what Corrent has and if he's ready, and protect him a bit with Martin. Plus, I always thought it was Stupid with a capital 's' for Sutter to play Oduya with Martin. The 2 Dmen capable of offense and he puts them on the same pairing? Far better to split them up. White and Mottau do well together, leave them alone.
The reasoning behind Bergfors on the third line is it takes a lot of pressure off of him. Zubrus provides big body protection, if we can get another depth forward to rotate with Shanahan on the third line and add some offense that'd be awesome. The Elias/Rolston/Clarkson unit is definitely our "second" line, but it's assembled because I think it's the best mix of skillsets to be productive. Clarkson, however he does it, finds a way to produce, Rolston helps him do it with speed and a slapper, and Elias is really the only viable option we have to play with them and would elevate both of their games. I really think that unit could work.

Plus, I think Bergfors and Zubrus could have some nice third line chemistry. It's a matter of putting players in a position to succeed instead of a position to fail.

As for the defense, I mostly agree with you, although my real preference is to deal Salvador for cap space and acquire a real puck-moving defenseman, probably to play with Martin, and see if Oduya can help Corrente along. I still have concerns regarding Oduya without Martin, though.

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Rolston - Bergfors
Shanahan - Zubrus - Clarkson
Pandolfo - Pelley - Pikkarainen/Leblond

You've gotta give Bergfors a legitimate shot to play with NHL talent for once. Plus, he has far more offensive skill than Clarkson. You cant have a guy that randomly falls an average of 1.2 times per shift on a scoring line.

Clarkson has more offensive skill than people give him credit for. Despite the fact that his only "finesse" move is the telegraphed wraparound, he is doing something right to score 15 goals from the third line. Lou has recognised this, and that's why he has said that Clarkson will be given more playing time. On the other hand, Bergfors probably does have more offensive talent than Clarkson, but as of right now he is still an unproven prospect. Let them compete for the second line spot in camp, I don't really think we can go wrong with that. I like those lines otherwise, though I'd like to see Halischuk get a chance to push Pandolfo off the roster.

Lets see what Corrent has and if he's ready, and protect him a bit with Martin. Plus, I always thought it was Stupid with a capital 's' for Sutter to play Oduya with Martin. The 2 Dmen capable of offense and he puts them on the same pairing? Far better to split them up. White and Mottau do well together, leave them alone.

Martin is without a doubt our #1 defenceman. Putting Corrente with Martin on the top pairing is not protecting him, because then he is expected to play a lot of minutes also, against some of the best opposing forwards. If we want to protect him, we should put him with Salvador. Salvador is a responsible veteran defenceman who can mentor Corrente, and Corrente is not expected to face such stiff opposition so quickly. Martin and Oduya play best with each other, as do White and Mottau. I don't know how much effectiveness our defence would lose if we split up those established pairings.

The reasoning behind Bergfors on the third line is it takes a lot of pressure off of him. Zubrus provides big body protection, if we can get another depth forward to rotate with Shanahan on the third line and add some offense that'd be awesome. The Elias/Rolston/Clarkson unit is definitely our "second" line, but it's assembled because I think it's the best mix of skillsets to be productive. Clarkson, however he does it, finds a way to produce, Rolston helps him do it with speed and a slapper, and Elias is really the only viable option we have to play with them and would elevate both of their games. I really think that unit could work.

Plus, I think Bergfors and Zubrus could have some nice third line chemistry. It's a matter of putting players in a position to succeed instead of a position to fail.

As for the defense, I mostly agree with you, although my real preference is to deal Salvador for cap space and acquire a real puck-moving defenseman, probably to play with Martin, and see if Oduya can help Corrente along. I still have concerns regarding Oduya without Martin, though.

If dont allow bergfors to play with Elias and u put Clarkson on his line i think u will see a decline is his numbers. Bergfors is fast (not as fast as gio i dont think) and with Rolston and Elias skating down the ice if Clarkson is on that line he will trip over the red line and get up in time to see them lose the puck in the zone. Lou has said that bergfors will get his shot and it will be with top 6 talent. I love Clarkson as much as the next guy but he is best on the 3rd line with some PP time in front of the net.

I Love Corrente i want him to make this team badly i am really pulling for him. I agree with having him play with Martin in the Pre-season but he canr be expected to come in and play during the season with Martin shutting down top lines. I think we have 8 Dman and if any get booted it will be Corrente just because he can go to Lowell.

I think the Writing is on the wall with the lines unless the new coach whoever he is just changes everything up to try and make a mark on the team with the Big Fin getting signed he rounds out the lines.

Parise Zajac Langs (C)
Rolston Elias(A) Bergfors
Pando Zubrus Clarkson
P3L Pelley Big Fin
Halischuk/one of the Russians for Offense if needed

Martin(A) Sal
Oduya Corrente/Greene
White Mottau
Greene/Corrente/Leach

Decided to list the Capt and Asst. I think Parise should get one but not sure i think someone on D should have one also could be White maybe to.

I like those lines otherwise, though I'd like to see Halischuk get a chance to push Pandolfo off the roster. I'd like to see Halis given a chance to make the big team too, and I think he will.



Martin is without a doubt our #1 defenceman. Putting Corrente with Martin on the top pairing is not protecting him, because then he is expected to play a lot of minutes also, against some of the best opposing forwards. If we want to protect him, we should put him with Salvador. Salvador is a responsible veteran defenceman who can mentor Corrente, and Corrente is not expected to face such stiff opposition so quickly. Martin and Oduya play best with each other, as do White and Mottau. I don't know how much effectiveness our defence would lose if we split up those established pairings.


Put Corrente with Sal if he makes the team, but for preseason dont you WANT to see whether he gets embarrassed by Malkin and Ovie? I hope all the youngsters play a ton of minutes in the preseason so they can be evaluated well.

Put Corrente with Sal if he makes the team, but for preseason dont you WANT to see whether he gets embarrassed by Malkin and Ovie? I hope all the youngsters play a ton of minutes in the preseason so they can be evaluated well.

I missed where you said this was for the preseason. By all means, Corrente should be vetted in the preseason games to see what he has got. I thought you wanted to start the regular season with Martin-Corrente as the top pair. This, of course, is utter madness, even if Corrente does make the team.

I missed where you said this was for the preseason. By all means, Corrente should be vetted in the preseason games to see what he has got. I thought you wanted to start the regular season with Martin-Corrente as the top pair. This, of course, is utter madness, even if Corrente does make the team.

Seriously, Martin would weigh him down real bad.:sarcasm:

I would like a real second line center, but I have a feeling we will see Elias there again, and Clarkson and Bergfors on the right.

Seriously, Martin would weigh him down real bad.:sarcasm:

I would like a real second line center, but I have a feeling we will see Elias there again, and Clarkson and Bergfors on the right.

I really hope we don't see Elias at centre. Did you see it when someone posted the faceoff % of all our forwards who took faceoffs? Elias's is somewhere around 30%. Rolston, please.

And to steal a (slightly modified) joke from the great Down Goes Brown (http://www.downgoesbrown.com/): I'd like to see Martin paired with Corrente. Just think of the mentorship opportunities. Paul could learn so much from him.