Time To Move On

I'm sifting through a lot of different threads and reading a lot of different posts and most people seem to be upset with the losses of Madden, Gionta, Rupp and Clemmensen. Mainly Madden and Gionta.

John Madden was our best defensive forward for years and even last year he was regarded as the go-to penalty killer once again with Pando. But as our best defensive forward he finished with a +/- of -7......not good.
EDIT: And Madden added 7 goals on 132 shots (a shooting percentage of .053)

Gio put 20 big goals in the net but with a shooting percentage of .081 (20 goals on 248 shots) he wasn’t worth spending $5 million to keep.

It was great having them on the team for all those years but we have a bright future to look forward to in terms of prospects.

Bergfors, Halischuk, Pelley, Corrente could all be called up next year and used in full-time action. Pelley can easily fill Madden's shoes especially considering the fact that he has played in the NHL already. Bergfors would add finesse and skill to the lineup along with filling the void left by Gio. PL3 is a full-time Mike Rupp and Jeff Frazee's time is now (in my opinion) to get some NHL action.


Open to criticism.

:nod:

Agreed.

Also, Madden is cane-cursed and now that he's gone we will finally beat Carolina.

We lost Rupper? I did no hear about this. I wish luck to all of them.

I'm actually glad Madden is gone because it will force the Devils to stop playing him against other team's top lines all the time, thus reducing the icetime of our best offensive players.

So far I agree with all the posts in the thread. It's nice to see the team move forward, but there's some attachment to those players, particularly Maddog and Gio. I'll miss them in a sentimental way, but probably not a whole lot otherwise.

"Time to move on"

Heard enough of that lately...

:(

The idea of replacing top notch players (Gionta and Madden) by anyones standards with 2nd and 3rd tier prospects....Doesn't make sense to me.

In the past we've been always been able to hide these flaws....In the mid to late 1990's we hide our weak forwards with outstanding defense... Recently we've hide our weak defense with our two-way forwards...Now we are to weak all over to hide some of these glaring holes....God I hope Brodeur is up for this challege.

I don't think it's the end of the world. Madden put up like 16 points last season and his +/- (far what it's worth) was in the negatives. I know he was a shutdown player and that would impact that a lot, but I want to see us move away from having a dedicated checking line/players anyway. We'll be fine without him, but it's sad to see him go.

Lou needs to match offers, even if they are overpayment. We lose all our good players, because Lou doesn't want to overpay for them. In the end we have team of awesome contracts, but average players, because no one wants to sign with us.

I mean look, we lost all our quality FA except of Oduya, all puck moving d-men are more or less signed or traded (Kubina) and we didn't do anything. Something has to change.

I mean look, we lost all our quality FA except of Oduya, all puck moving d-men are more or less signed or traded (Kubina) and we didn't do anything. Something has to change.

To name a few, Beauchemin, Leopold and Bergeron are still out there.

To name a few, Beauchemin, Leopold and Bergeron are still out there.

The only puck mover is Bergeron and he is a #3 or #4 d-man.

Beauchemin would be an improvement, but I doubt we get him. Aside from him, there aren't any d-men left that would help our situation.

The only puck mover is Bergeron and he is a #3 or #4 d-man.

Beauchemin would be an improvement, but I doubt we get him. Aside from him, there aren't any d-men left that would help our situation.

I didn't check on his status, but isn't Derek Morris a UFA right now? He could be a nice addition. There are still a good number of UFAs out there at forward too. Montreal alone cut Tanguay, Kovalev and Koivu loose.
As frustrating as it may be, there is still plenty of time for Lou to do something. He rarely does on the first day anyway.

Lou needs to match offers, even if they are overpayment. We lose all our good players, because Lou doesn't want to overpay for them. In the end we have team of awesome contracts, but average players, because no one wants to sign with us.
I mean look, we lost all our quality FA except of Oduya, all puck moving d-men are more or less signed or traded (Kubina) and we didn't do anything. Something has to change.


Lou knows the cap is going down next year, why risk the lose of Martin who is more valuable then someone like gionta or madden.

Someone like gionta can eventually get replaced with someone like bergfors. But its harder to replace Martin.

Im not going to even get into the Zach's next contract.

You see teams like the Rangers and Hawks give out huge contracts to players while aready near the cap. Then next year when guys like Staal, Kane, Keith, and Toews are all vulnerable to offer sheets

"Time to move on"

Heard enough of that lately...

:(

No ****ing **** eh.

People will be :cry: when some of these players not only do well, but great on their new teams in the same roles they had here with the same level talent or even better...

To name a few, Beauchemin, Leopold and Bergeron are still out there.

stop talking defense, we ain't getting anyone. what about the ******* coach? is the hold up related to this FA in-activity? I have to praise Lou for his ackknowledgement of the cap next year, but no one has even respected the cap limit. They're all filling the cup to the top. So is Lou the only one with a clue? or the only moron? i mean, not even a ******* Center?! WE NEED A CENTRE!

For thoes that are crying, please stop. We couldn't stay the status quo of making the playoffs, getting knocked out in the first or second round and drafting at the bottom.

We had to get younger and we may have to bite the bullet this year by being a bubble playoff team.

The cap is going down after next season and do you really think Gio was worth $5million on 5 years? Madden was a great soldier, but he wasn't the answer either.

So, what did you want Lou to do. Many of problems begin with being a playoff team for the past 14 years. Yes, mistakes were made in free agency and drafting, but there is nothing we can do about that now. So, remain calm and if the Devils aren't a cup contender and are in a mini-rebuild, I say it's about time.

It was time to move on. Two years in a row out in the first round, playoff failures the couple years before that, the makeup and dynamic of this team had to change. Madden has not been effective in the post season for years as a shutdown center and Gionta at 5m to score 23 goals is not worth it in my opinion.

I am fine with struggling a bit and giving these kids a chance. Plus really the replacements for madden and Gionta are already here. Rolston can easily slide into the second line winger on elias line and zubrus (if you can find a second line center) can be the third line checking center. And we have plenty of forwards who are capable on the penalty kill.

It is time to stop clinging to the past and seeing what some of these kids can or can't do. It's a long season and if some of these kids don't prove up to the challenge, we will have cap space to make trades.

hey Brooklyn Devil who are you talking to?? we alll agree madden was done and none of us wanted to pay Gio 5. so who's complaining. The problem is if we fill, ALL of the holes with Lowell, theres a playoff contention issue. We should/should have inserted a center on 2nd line, that may prove to be the biggest and only mistake Lou makes. WHo's left Koivu, Antropov, Morrison....what are the odds we grab one of these guys??? Kiovu was th most likely but he will do a neidermeyer

I'm actually glad Madden is gone because it will force the Devils to stop playing him against other team's top lines all the time, thus reducing the icetime of our best offensive players.

Except now almost useless Pandolfo becomes entirely useless... I would have rather kept Madden and let Pandolfo go. While Madden had a bad season last year, the year before he was coming off his best season ever. I understood that we didn't want to pay him more than 3 mil. But can we honestly say we could get someone as good as Madden for 2.75 mil given Lou's track record with FAs?

It was time to move on. Two years in a row out in the first round, playoff failures the couple years before that, the makeup and dynamic of this team had to change. Madden has not been effective in the post season for years as a shutdown center and Gionta at 5m to score 23 goals is not worth it in my opinion.

I am fine with struggling a bit and giving these kids a chance. Plus really the replacements for madden and Gionta are already here. Rolston can easily slide into the second line winger on elias line and zubrus (if you can find a second line center) can be the third line checking center. And we have plenty of forwards who are capable on the penalty kill.

It is time to stop clinging to the past and seeing what some of these kids can or can't do. It's a long season and if some of these kids don't prove up to the challenge, we will have cap space to make trades.


i was thinking the same thing...but if we need to make a trade, who are we gonna trade? and if the rookies don't hack it...why would anyone want them? I don't see much in trades for this year except maybe on D.(White, MOttau) But certainly not in the offseason here.

It is time to stop clinging to the past and seeing what some of these kids can or can't do. It's a long season and if some of these kids don't prove up to the challenge, we will have cap space to make trades.

But the kids simply aren't good! These aren't blue chip prospects were are talking about here...It is just not there.

Make Trades? With What? The kids that aren't any good?

If we want to move on -- letting go Gionta and Madden (7 Million) and bringing in a #1 Defensemen or a real #1 center... that would make sense. What is happening now makes no sense whatsoever.

This team is going in Limbo next season(As we are right now) and Brodeur is going to be a year old. That is not acceptable.

But the kids simply aren't good! These aren't blue chip prospects were are talking about here...It is just not there.

Make Trades? With What? The kids that aren't any good?

If we want to move on -- letting go Gionta and Madden (7 Million) and bringing in a #1 Defensemen or a real #1 center... that would make sense. What is happening now makes no sense whatsoever.

This team is going in Limbo next season(As we are right now) and Brodeur is going to be a year old. That is not acceptable.

Marty's going to be a baby, we got plenty of time! just kidding. I agree I want to go for it while Marty is still here and I felt like they tried last year and failed. And I agree we need a center for the second line but you are way to easily dismissing these kids without giving them a chance. Madden and Gio were not blue chip prospects either, Madden was undrafted and Gio was "too small". Yeah can't just keep closing the doors on these kids because they are not top tier and quite honestly, while great heart and soul guys, Madden and Gio are not top tier players looking to be replaced, they are second and third line players. And we don't know how much heart and soul some of these kids have until they try. I personally thought Pelley played well in a checking center role when he filled in for Madden a few seasons ago. Let's see what he can do for real.

And in all honesty, even if GIo and Madden stayed , neither solve our second line center and top d man problems. But by letting them go we maybe have the cap room to get someone. I think everyone is way over reacting in thinking Lou is not going to do anything else. It is day 1, some teams are in tight or over the cap with some of the guys they have signed, there are trades to be made.

But the kids simply aren't good! These aren't blue chip prospects were are talking about here...It is just not there.

Make Trades? With What? The kids that aren't any good?

If we want to move on -- letting go Gionta and Madden (7 Million) and bringing in a #1 Defensemen or a real #1 center... that would make sense. What is happening now makes no sense whatsoever.

This team is going in Limbo next season(As we are right now) and Brodeur is going to be a year old. That is not acceptable.

Can we at least wait until they play a decent amount of games before we make a judgement ?

Can we at least wait until they play a decent amount of games before we make a judgement ?

My threshhold for judging a prospect is 200 games played -- I think after 150-200 games you know what kinda player you have.....But in this case we will be asking these players to jump right into the fire.

Bergfors is no Parise or Getzlaf. He is not capable of stepping right in. I don't see how anyone could even begin to debate that?

My threshhold for judging a prospect is 200 games played -- I think after 150-200 games you know what kinda player you have.....But in this case we will be asking these players to jump right into the fire.

Bergfors is no Parise or Getzlaf. He is not capable of stepping right in. I don't see how anyone could even begin to debate that?

This was why I was asking if there was a super prospect coming up in 2010 Lou is shooting for, cause it could be possible for us to end up in Last place LOL.

hey Brooklyn Devil who are you talking to?? we alll agree madden was done and none of us wanted to pay Gio 5. so who's complaining. The problem is if we fill, ALL of the holes with Lowell, theres a playoff contention issue. We should/should have inserted a center on 2nd line, that may prove to be the biggest and only mistake Lou makes. WHo's left Koivu, Antropov, Morrison....what are the odds we grab one of these guys??? Kiovu was th most likely but he will do a neidermeyer

Not anyone in particular, only those like Everson, who say's that Lou failed yesterday because he didn't sign someone for the sake of signing someone. And for those who don't really understand the Devils current situation, it's time for a reality check.

Bergfors is no Parise or Getzlaf. He is not capable of stepping right in. I don't see how anyone could even begin to debate that?

He is capable of stepping right in. Have some faith, man . Damn...

Not all prospects are superstars you know, but you still need them.

This was why I was asking if there was a super prospect coming up in 2010 Lou is shooting for, cause it could be possible for us to end up in Last place LOL.


Well, if we get the first pick in the 2010 draft, we'll be getting Taylor Hall, who in my opinion is a dynamic player and may be better than Stamkos and Tavares.

My threshhold for judging a prospect is 200 games played -- I think after 150-200 games you know what kinda player you have.....But in this case we will be asking these players to jump right into the fire.

Bergfors is no Parise or Getzlaf. He is not capable of stepping right in. I don't see how anyone could even begin to debate that?

Nobody thought Zajac was going to step right in either. And really I don't know if we need him too, Rolston can step on to the second line, Bergfors is not needed to pick up Gionta's slack, Rolston needs to step his game up next year. Bergfors need to pick up Rolston's production on the 3rd or 4th line and maybe on the second power play. Plus who knows what our two young russian wingers show in training camp. Maybe one of them can surprise us and steal a job.

We need the center more than we needed Gio. If we didn't have Rolston, I think Gio has to stay but it's time for Rolston to earn his contract and be a top 6 player for us.

My threshhold for judging a prospect is 200 games played I think after 150-200 games you know what kinda player you have.....But in this case we will be asking these players to jump right into the fire.

Bergfors is no Parise or Getzlaf. He is not capable of stepping right in. I don't see how anyone could even begin to debate that?
You don't have to be an elite player to step right in and contribute. Look at the way a young team like Buffalo develops their prospects. Roy, Pominville, Stafford, MacArthur, Paille, Sekera, M. Weber. All of them are in their low 20's and made an easy transition to the NHL level. None are +100 point players, but all are given a lot of responsibility and ice time because the coaching staff trusts them.

A lot of people forget that Bergfors had 4 years of Pro experience by the time he was 21 years old. He had a taste last year, so we know he's hungry. And we know he has skill. Put him on the Elias line and let Patty be his mentor, give him some time on the second PP unit, and I don't think 15-30-45 would be out of the question.

Nobody thought Zajac was going to step right in either. And really I don't know if we need him too, Rolston can step on to the second line, Bergfors is not needed to pick up Gionta's slack, Rolston needs to step his game up next year. Bergfors need to pick up Rolston's production on the 3rd or 4th line and maybe on the second power play. Plus who knows what our two young russian wingers show in training camp. Maybe one of them can surprise us and steal a job.

We need the center more than we needed Gio. If we didn't have Rolston, I think Gio has to stay but it's time for Rolston to earn his contract and be a top 6 player for us.

Not unreasonable....

But we are going to need someone to step in. You can't lose a Madden and Gionta and expect there to be no gap.

Rolston is a Left Winger more than anything else. Our top 2 RW's are Langenbrunner and Clarkson right now....Sure you can use a make-shift RWer, but it would be just that make-shift....We've created a gap at RW, we've created a gap with a defensive center, we already had a gap with our 2nd line center and we have a weak defense. I'm not seeing how any of our prospect fixes any of these problems.

You don't have to be an elite player to step right in and contribute.

Of course you don't....But what are the expectations? Do you expect Bergfors to understand the game defensively as well as Gionta ? That won't happen for years-If ever. Do you expect him to seemlessly play on the 2nd line? Its not going to happen.

That is not how rookies should be brought up and this year that is how they will HAVE TO be brought up.

Letting Gionta walk and not massively overpaying him was eventually the right choice. Letting Madden go was stupid. We had a hole at center and now we lost another one and one of our best PKers.

But letting both of them walk and not signing someone to replace them will bite us. I thought we let Madden and Gio walk and therefore we sign a #1 or #2 offensive d-man and a second line center. Now we lost both of them and didn't do anything to adress our needs.

Letting Gionta walk and not massively overpaying him was eventually the right choice.

Do you know what he was being offered and what he was asking?


My feeling is: We will find out in the up coming days this was a Rafalski situation as far as money goes.

Lou needs to match offers, even if they are overpayment. We lose all our good players, because Lou doesn't want to overpay for them. In the end we have team of awesome contracts, but average players, because no one wants to sign with us.

To which Lou would reply, "The Devils always challenge for the division and have won three Stanley Cups and been in four finals using this strategy."

Unlike the other major sports, hockey is and always will be the ultimate team sport - where the whole will always exceed the sum of its parts. For all the talk about Crosby, Malkin and Fleury, the Penguins won the Stanley Cup thanks to the efforts of guys like Orpik, Scuderi, and a lot of their other "no name" players.

When guys like Guerin, Rolston, Arnott, Niedermayer, Rafalski and others have left for greener pastures, the Devils have managed to remain one of the more competitive teams in the league. In that same time, the Flyers have signed how many $$$ defensemen, forwards like Roenick, Lindros, Briere and others, and won how many Stanley Cups?

Would like to see adequate NHL calibre defensemen, and a few veteran character forwards added to the mix, but the Devils don't really need the big ticket guys.

Do you know what he was being offered and what he was asking?


My feeling is: We will find out in the up coming days this was a Rafalski situation as far as money goes.

That would be interesting. If he had signed for 3-4 millions with us, I would have done it in a heartbeat.

Except now almost useless Pandolfo becomes entirely useless... I would have rather kept Madden and let Pandolfo go. While Madden had a bad season last year, the year before he was coming off his best season ever. I understood that we didn't want to pay him more than 3 mil. But can we honestly say we could get someone as good as Madden for 2.75 mil given Lou's track record with FAs?


Rather than dispute your "almost useless" comment - which borders on the absurd - I'd imagine that Madden has more value on the open market and thus would be tougher for Lou to have re-signed. I can't help but think that Pandolfo's value to the club goes well beyond his on-ice contributions as well.

And with many younger players potentially in the Devils lineup, it would do well for them to retain at least one of the veteran forwards - who has seen first-hand the success that the Devils culture creates.

And like several others have also said on here, it's amazing the gnashing of teeth after ONE DAY of free agent signings. Does anyone seriously think Pikkarainen is the only free agent that the Devils will sign? And after spending some time in the Devils organization, isn't it possible that the younger players like Bergfors and possibly one or two of the younger defensemen have improved quite a bit and have learned the way the Devils expect them to play the game?

I want to be the first to say it.

I bet John Madden will be an NHL coach within 10 years. Most likely on the Devils.

He's butted heads with our coaches because he thinks he knows what the deal is. He likes talking to younger players and helping develop them, and is a good leader.

I'm not really mad that we lost Gio and Madden because I expected it but I am kind of pissed that Montreal basically has our former first line.