Pronger to Flyers [Archive]

go kim johnsson 514

06-26-2009, 07:52 PM

Pronger and Dingle for Lupul, Sbisa, 1st in 09 and 10, and a conditional one.

I'm at least interested what Sbisa can do. I like us getting him.

Sbisa is someone who is going to be very good, but not just yet. The Flyers totally rushed him in my view, and I've been very very critical of the way he was used by the Flyers this season. I could go on all day about it, but if you have the time, just search my posts on the Flyers forum. Holmgren talked out of both sides of his mouth about him all year.

He wasn't big enough to play in the league this season. Usually you like to tell defensemen to make smart, quick decisions with the puck. Sbisa routinely held on to the puck too long and had to backpedal in his own zone. He got knocked down consistently by people not as big as him, if not bounced off them (and I'm not talking about big guys, I'm talking about the Eric Perrin's and Steve Stamkos's of the world, guys who aren't big and are rather smallish). He wore down badly.

And Holmgren thought Sbisa would grow 2 inches during the offseason. I'm not an anatomy major or anything, but that would make it 3 inches after turning 18 years old. Don't know a whole lot of people who did that.

He's going to be in the league and be in the league for a while, and be very good. If I were the Ducks though, I wouldn't put my eggs in his basket for next season. And you guys have quite a few guys who won't force Sbisa's hand and have to throw him in. We did not.

Paul4587

06-26-2009, 07:52 PM

Maybe we'll finally look at 3 scoring lines, although I shudder to think of how bad defensively a line with Lupul and Christensen/Ebbett/whoever else plays on that line is.

jiggsawpuzzle35

06-26-2009, 07:55 PM

I will miss Pronger. Its a shame he had to go instead of Scottie. Here is a guy who wanted to be here and had no question in his mind that he wanted to retire a duck. Here is hoping his wife *****es again and has him re sign here next yr.

ericnut

06-26-2009, 07:56 PM

Any Ducks fan that is mad is a rahtard.

jax00

06-26-2009, 07:58 PM

Beauchemin anyone?

Jimgrayson

06-26-2009, 07:59 PM

Sbisa is someone who is going to be very good, but not just yet. The Flyers totally rushed him in my view, and I've been very very critical of the way he was used by the Flyers this season. I could go on all day about it, but if you have the time, just search my posts on the Flyers forum. Holmgren talked out of both sides of his mouth about him all year.

He wasn't big enough to play in the league this season. Usually you like to tell defensemen to make smart, quick decisions with the puck. Sbisa routinely held on to the puck too long and had to backpedal in his own zone. He got knocked down consistently by people not as big as him, if not bounced off them (and I'm not talking about big guys, I'm talking about the Eric Perrin's and Steve Stamkos's of the world, guys who aren't big and are rather smallish). He wore down badly.

And Holmgren thought Sbisa would grow 2 inches during the offseason. I'm not an anatomy major or anything, but that would make it 3 inches after turning 18 years old. Don't know a whole lot of people who did that.

He's going to be in the league and be in the league for a while, and be very good. If I were the Ducks though, I wouldn't put my eggs in his basket for next season. And you guys have quite a few guys who won't force Sbisa's hand and have to throw him in. We did not.

Ta. I was reading around a couple of Philly players a couple of days ago and I was impressed with some of the things being said about him

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 07:59 PM

Hmm. I'm a little surprised in that Murray was adamant that he didn't want draft picks earlier. He wanted to compete now. On the other hand, Lupul and Sbisa probably both play next year, as does Niedermayer. So maybe that works.

I like Sbisa. Really wanted him (or Carlson even more) in 08 instead of Gardiner. I think he's our new best D prospect.

I dislike Lupul, but perhaps that earned us the 1st in 2010? But Lupulmay be better than Jones or Carle.

Remember how Philly fans were adamant that Pronger was only worth Briere + Lupul + stuff?

Does this mean we go forwards in the draft? Also, will they want to trade 15 + Philly's pick for a higher pick? Or perhaps move Philly's pick down for a 2nd or two?

Finnpin

06-26-2009, 08:01 PM

Any Ducks fan that is mad is a rahtard.Mad first but happy when heard tah real deal. 2 1sts :amazed:

Though Lupul still sucks but he might have good chemistry with Teemu... if he is back?

McDonald19

06-26-2009, 08:05 PM

Welcome back Joffrey.

Pronger was great but he is 35 in October and is a UFA next summer.

Murray seems to know what he is doing. Building a young core around Getzlaf.

Hopefully he can re-sign Beauch.

Scott-Beauch
Whitney-Wiz
Sbisa-Brookbank

McDonald19

06-26-2009, 08:06 PM

Though Lupul still sucks but he might have good chemistry with Teemu... if he is back?

yeah hopefully this gives the ducks a 2nd line.

Lupul-Ebbett-Selanne

Finnpin

06-26-2009, 08:08 PM

TheNextOneX

06-26-2009, 08:12 PM

Aaaaahhhhhh...:):handclap:

Sbisa and Hiller on the same team!!!

First time 2 Swiss players play on the same team...:sarcasm:

This is really good, Sbisa will learn the physical play of the Ducks system which will end up to be a very positive experience for him.;)

Finnpin

06-26-2009, 08:14 PM

Benny Lava

06-26-2009, 08:15 PM

Can he do it? Don´t know nothing about this dude.

If he puts on some weight, yes he can.

mmbt

06-26-2009, 08:18 PM

Can he do it? Don´t know nothing about this dude.

dEeq_blRLqE

I'd say yes.

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 08:19 PM

When he was draft-eligible, Sbisa was supposed to be pretty tough for a European defenseman. Well decently physical as well, not just for a European player.

Finnpin

06-26-2009, 08:23 PM

When he was draft-eligible, Sbisa was supposed to be pretty tough for a European defenseman. Well decently physical as well, not just for a European player.Sounds and looks nice! What about his chances to make the team next year?

Benny Lava

06-26-2009, 08:24 PM

Sbisa was actually the player I wanted with our first last year. So I guess I'm happy.

Jimgrayson

06-26-2009, 08:24 PM

dEeq_blRLqE

I'd say yes.

nice :)

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 08:26 PM

Oh and retrospective question for others: who would you have preferred, Sbisa or JVR?

Elvstrand

06-26-2009, 08:31 PM

Jimgrayson

06-26-2009, 08:32 PM

I'd say JVR, we have nothing like that (a forward I guess) ready to step in and that would have given us 4 great young forwards for years.

I guess I'm saying at his position he's a much larger upgrade over what we have in the ready to step in compared to how much better Sbisa is than Festerling, Mikkelson et al

mmbt

06-26-2009, 08:32 PM

Oh and retrospective question for others: who would you have preferred, Sbisa or JVR?

I'd probably have rather had a deal built around JVR, but we had to get a defenseman in the deal somehow.

McDonald19

06-26-2009, 08:37 PM

dEeq_blRLqE

I'd say yes.

Sweet!!

:yo:

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 08:37 PM

Say whatever you want, but this was a great deal for Anaheim. Many of you may dislike Lupul, but tbh, he has some scoring touch. Sbisa has also nice upside and we get a couple of first rounder and a conditional 3rd... Well done Murray!
But the problem is we traded Pronger away for a lot of futures, and not a lot of now. Kind of like what Edmonton did. If you pick your futures poorly, it could end up a rough trade.

In response to my own question, I'm not sure what to think about JVR. He had a good freshman year, but he kind of stalled stats-wise this past year in college. I haven't seen him so I can't comment on how his game has improved other than stats.

The draft hype around JVR, and the abstract idea of a good forward prospect vs Sbisa would be better for us. I still like Sbisa a bunch though, so I'd lean toward him.

kenabnrmal

06-26-2009, 08:40 PM

I like the return, but I...

a) Really like Sbisa as a prospect,

b) Don't think Lupul sucks near as bad as most here seem to. 25 goals is 25 goals, and I wouldn't be surprised if he uses being involved in ANOTHER trade as a bit of a wakeup call,

c) Would rather have Niedermayer than Pronger. Regardless of how frustrating Niedermayer is, I would bet dollars to donuts that he means much, much more to the room than does Pronger. I hate to see Pronger go, I really do, but Murray made it clear immediately that Nieds was the priority. I'm not in the room, but I've got to believe there's good reason for it,

d) Love seeing the team grabbing another first in this draft, and grabbing even a late on next year. The cubboard is relatively bare with respect to prospects, but this helps tremendously.

Not elated, but I'm alright with it.

Jimgrayson

06-26-2009, 08:41 PM

Per Eric Duhatschek, http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/nhl-draft-day-blog/article1198318/

Holmgren on the trade
Flyers’ GM Paul Holmgren, asked how this deal came about, answered: “It goes back over the last few weeks. I was talking to Bob (Murray, the Ducks’ GM). He asked, if they decided to move Chris, would we have interest? Obviously, I told him we would – and it went from there.”
Holmgren said he couldn’t make the Pronger deal at the NHL trading deadline because of salary-cap reasons, but would have interest in him in the summer, if he were available then.
In Pronger, Holmgren believes he has a player that can help them get over the top.
“First of all, he’s a proven winner. Secondly, he brings the size. HE can pass the puck as well as anybody. HE brings a nice physical presence, both in stature and in the way he plays. I think he’s an ideal fit on our team – and he’s going to make every other defenceman on our team better. He’ll be an excellent role model for all the young players in our organization.”
And the price?
“It’s a lot to give up absolutely. Ask me a year from now, or three years from now, if it was worth it. I mean, Joffrey Lupul is a fine young man and a good player. Luca Sbisa will be a good player – and obviously, the unknowns are the draft picks. We’re trying to win here and we think Chris is a guy that can help us get closer to achieving our goal.”

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 08:45 PM

go kim johnsson 514

06-26-2009, 08:52 PM

Terrible, just ****ing terrible. ****ing Lupul really? Sbisa is nice and two first round picks is good, but I hate it to be honest. What's ****ing Lupul's contract anyway?

4 years at 4.25 with a limited NTC which kicks in July 1.

caliamad

06-26-2009, 08:55 PM

Lupul = fail.

The rest of the return is fantastic though.

I would have prefered we did got gagne instead of Lupul + 2010 1st.

I wonder why Murray rushed it. Can only theorize he wanted the 09 pick badly.

kenabnrmal

06-26-2009, 08:59 PM

That's a good point. But on the other hand, where does Lupul play? We have 3 right wings better than he is (Teemu, Ryan, Perry).

Does this mean Teemu's retiring? Or does this mean Lupul/Perry will be shipped for a LW/C?

I think Murray wanted Sbisa and the picks, and in order to make it work they had to take a contract like Lupul's in return.

Selanne can't play the left side. Maybe Perry can, and you throw Lupul up there. Maybe Lupul can. Maybe the team's going to three lines that can score. I don't think it means Selanne's retiring, or that it forces the team to make a move. What it does do is provide some sorely needed scoring beyond the first line.

In other words, and far more succinctly...I dunno.

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 09:03 PM

I think Murray wanted Sbisa and the picks, and in order to make it work they had to take a contract like Lupul's in return.

Selanne can't play the left side. Maybe Perry can, and you throw Lupul up there. Maybe Lupul can. Maybe the team's going to three lines that can score. I don't think it means Selanne's retiring, or that it forces the team to make a move. What it does do is provide some sorely needed scoring beyond the first line.

In other words, and far more succinctly...I dunno.
Lupul sucked at LW as a Duck. But he is a few years older. :dunno:

Yeah Lupul was the salary balancer. But then there's other possible ones, such as Jones or Carle. Maybe Murray just thought a forward, any forward, was better than another D.

4 years at 4.25 with a limited NTC which kicks in July 1.
LOL, NTC. Forgot about that. Makes his contract even worse. Although in our case... we could decline to honor his NTC since he got traded before it kicked in.

Vulak

06-26-2009, 09:07 PM

Lupul and his 4 goal single game against colorado in 2006 playoffs is HARD to forget. Sure he was inconsistant, but maybe now thats hes older hes better.

two 1st's and sbiza.. donno about those, ibiza seems fine though.

kenabnrmal

06-26-2009, 09:09 PM

Lupul sucked at LW as a Duck. But he is a few years older. :dunno:

Yeah Lupul was the salary balancer. But then there's other possible ones, such as Jones or Carle. Maybe Murray just thought a forward, any forward, was better than another D.

Well, that's where the 25 goals come in, I would guess. Neither Jones nor Carle do a whole lot for me.

I have a gut feeling that Lupul will win some fans over. I also grilled some burgers earlier, so that might be it.

dredeye

06-26-2009, 09:17 PM

Well you guys had to take salary for this to happen. This is a great great great deal for the Ducks. Move Lupul to his off wing. Who cares. I only hope my leafs can get half of this kind of return for Kaberle. That's a ton of youth for your future or tradeable assets if needed in the future.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

06-26-2009, 09:38 PM

Lupul with Getzlaf could be pretty scary. Lupul has his faults, but the guy's a great finisher and IMO he could put up some big numbers next season. The salary's a bit much, but I think some more time with Carlyle and the rest of the gang and he could definitely live up to his potential. Nice to see him back.

Overall, I really like this trade. Our prospect forward cupboard's still a little bare, even with Holland, but we do have 4 very talented young forwards on this team. And now we also have a young, very talented defenseman in Sbisa and extra first round picks this year and next. And with Scotty coming back we definitely are still a good team(and Pronger could come back, still, too). I guess we'll have to see what happens with this next pick.

Paul4587

06-26-2009, 10:11 PM

This is a good return provided the Ducks don't do something stupid like trade Perry. Lupul sucked at LW last time he was here, does anyone know if Perry can play LW?

ilovetheflyers8

06-26-2009, 10:11 PM

Congrats on getting Sbisa guys I think he will be a pretty good d- man he is already decent now- and if you are plagued with injuries he can even play 4th line forward :) (not joking he did for us). I guess I'll be rooting for you guys in the West now that you have Sbisa and I like Getzlaf a lot.

xxgt465xx

06-26-2009, 10:24 PM

What's the deal with everyone ripping Lupul? His contract may be a little bit much, but he has been doing very well in Philly. And not to mention getting Sbisa and 3 draft picks does not hurt. I think Lupul is going to really excel here in Anaheim this time around.

Benny Lava

06-26-2009, 10:25 PM

What's the deal with everyone ripping Lupul?

He's lazy as ****.

xxgt465xx

06-26-2009, 10:38 PM

He's lazy as ****.

Yea well he scored 25 goals and had 50 points last year. We really needed those goals this year in a bad way! We have a really scary top 6 now! And people need to remember that this is Selanne's last year in all reality so now we have Lupul locked up for 4 years.

Vitto79

06-26-2009, 10:38 PM

from the outside i think its a great deal for the Ducks,2 firsts is great...........Sbisa made the Flyers as a pick last year as much as you bash Lupul the Ducks needed some 2nd line scoring and he gives that

Talentless Practise

06-26-2009, 10:49 PM

Apparently Pronger wanted a minimum of 5 year 30+ million deal. 6M+ until he's 40? That'd be a brutal deal at the end of it.

Benny Lava

06-26-2009, 10:51 PM

Yea well he scored 25 goals and had 50 points last year. We really needed those goals this year in a bad way! We have a really scary top 6 now! And people need to remember that this is Selanne's last year in all reality so now we have Lupul locked up for 4 years.

I'm not saying he's a bad addition. In fact, I was one of the (apparently) few that actually liked Lupul when he was here. But even I can admit he doesn't exactly have the best work ethic.

Go_Krog

06-26-2009, 10:55 PM

kinda funny that its near identical to the trade that we originally got pronger with.

Ducks have 1 left handed shot in the top 6.

Static

06-26-2009, 10:57 PM

That's a good point. But on the other hand, where does Lupul play? We have 3 right wings better than he is (Teemu, Ryan, Perry).

Does this mean Teemu's retiring? Or does this mean Lupul/Perry will be shipped for a LW/C?

Honestly I dont think the whole "only RW" thing is going to be an issue. Ryan and Perry played together for an extended amount of time and they are both listed as "RWs" and lit the league up.

Not only that, but from what I watched this last year Lupul is a lot better defensively. The laziness factor is way overblown, and I think his hesitant play may be a factor of his last concussion. Honestly, Lupul is a much better wing option than anything we had in house.

Bucky Ducky

06-26-2009, 11:01 PM

This sounds good. I´m drunk as hell and maybe I can handle this evening tomorrow better...

That makes two of us lol

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

06-26-2009, 11:09 PM

kinda funny that its near identical to the trade that we originally got pronger with.

Ducks have 1 left handed shot in the top 6.

Very identical, but even comparing it to the time it's clearly better. Lupul then was a bit better than Lupul now(value-wise), but Sbisa has the potential to be a #1, which Smid never was, and #26, #37 and their first next year will probably be better than #30, #60 or whatever and whatever our 2008 first was(#25?). Plus the conditional third.

Oh yeah, we got a cup out of it, too. That always helps.

Fighter

06-26-2009, 11:18 PM

blah

06-26-2009, 11:18 PM

Anybody here ever watch Dingle play? Is he only an AHL pickup, or can he play in the NHL?

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 11:24 PM

Hmm... post-trade, Lupul had a conference call from his Newport Beach summer home. Apparently he kept the cursed house and lives there in the summer.

edit: link to the conference call is in the Ducks blog here http://ducks.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NHLPage&id=12887

What gives with the loud mouse clicking?

Lupes on Sbisa: "He's a talent like I haven't seen in awhile.... Never looked out of place and at some points looked more than in place.... He's very physical, very fast, just natural... If he keeps developing the way he is, a #1 defenseman"
Anybody here ever watch Dingle play? Is he only an AHL pickup, or can he play in the NHL?
I saw Dingle in 1 training camp. I was actually kind of impressed by him. Not impressed impressed, but impressed as in "this kid out of nowhere might actually be good enough to make the NHL and be serviceable."

I was thinking he'd be the Ducks next college UFA to make the team. But he didn't seem to do too well this season in the AHL. He seems pretty skilled, and decently smart.

Jerky Leclerc

06-26-2009, 11:32 PM

We got back the same deal we gave the Oilers. So we keep Pronger for three years, win a Stanley Cup and didn't get short changed on value. As for Lupul, I think Bob Murray is thinking beyond 2010 when Teemu is gone. He is proving to be an astute GM and building this team for the now and future. I like the two picks in the first round too. We needed some depth there after trading away Tangradi. Overall, I will give Bob Murray a B+/A-

zetterberg40

06-26-2009, 11:35 PM

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-26-2009, 11:36 PM

To be clear, I like the idea of the trade. Murray is a rather visionary but somewhat cautious GM. He's like Burke without the overpayments.

I just hate Lupul.

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 11:38 PM

To be clear, I like the idea of the trade. Murray is a rather visionary but somewhat cautious GM. He's like Burke without the overpayments.

I just hate Lupul.
Yeah Murray's a much better trader value-wise than Burke. Burke was good at identifying the guys he wanted (who were often, but not always the right guys), but seemed to overpay.

LOL... Lupes on Getzlaf and #15. "We talked about it, but I don't think I'm getting it back. I don't know what I can do. I can't buy it off of him for sure because he has more money."

Oh, and QP already has texted him.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-26-2009, 11:39 PM

Everyone who is syaing Lupul sucks needs to rattle their head a little. His situation in Edmonton wasnt ideal, and the pressure in Philly might have been a little too much on him. The fans their are pretty insane and the fans in Anaheim seem more laid back.

Remember, his seasons were in Anaheim as a youngster. He could very well regain some of that chemistry.
Lupul only found chemistry with inconsistent guys like Prospal and Penner. He is, or was, lazy, ineffective on the forecheck, slow to retreat to his own zone, and will not fight for space in front of the net.

I've always liked his temper and his willingness to stand up for himself; he's not a maxipad. But he's never shown the drive to succeed in the difficult areas, relying more on his shot to keep greater effort at arms length. I hate lazy, and that's what he was.

Go_Krog

06-26-2009, 11:40 PM

did it ever come out if the flyers were tyring to get Pronger at the deadline? this kind of reminds me of cleveland getting shaq, in that they shouldve done it 3 months ago.

the more i think about it though the more i like this deal. we all know Selanne is gone after this season so that leaves a big hole. im in Pittsburgh now and watched Lupul a bit in the first round and was impressed, he was working hard which was nice to see from him. another good thing about it is its a very happy Lupul coming back out here, comin to a much better situation that edmonton was, i think we can ignore that year. if he can keep poppin in around 25 goals, he'll be justifying that salary for sure.

then Sbisa and 2(!!!) firsts, wow.

will definitely miss Pronger though. he never really brought out that gamebreaker ability this year in playoffs, but man what a force he was for the Ducks in 07. best of luck to him in philly. itll be nice being able to watch the pittsburgh side of the rivalry now that Pronger is in it. gotta cheer on the flyers now.

snarktacular

06-26-2009, 11:44 PM

Here's a thought....

Lupul was drafted as a center, and I believe he played C in juniors. Lupul = Selanne's center?

Ducksforcup

06-26-2009, 11:49 PM

Although I am not a fan of Lupes, I can't hate on this deal. I am certain that this was the best meal Murray could have received for him. Really excited to see what Sbisa can do.

Thanks for helping us get a Cup Prongs!

Good deal and good day overall for Murray! :handclap:

Elvstrand

06-26-2009, 11:56 PM

I remember I was kind of sad to see him go as he was one of few young players we had back then. So in a way I'm kinda happy to see him back, I'm being a kind of nostalgic person. Should help our scoring depth too.

Welcome back Lupes:

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Talentless Practise

06-27-2009, 12:01 AM

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2009/06/26/lupul-thrilled-to-rejoin-ducks/15351/

Say what you will about Lupes, you like reading that.

Welcome home, Joffrey!

Chimaera

06-27-2009, 12:05 AM

word from both Caps beat writers (and from McPhee) is the Ducks wanted a goalie (Neuvirth/Varlamov), John Carlson, a lineup player (not sure what that would have been, I would suggest Laich), and "something else".

The Caps balked at that, and the Ducks still made out well.

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 12:08 AM

As I've done before for trades, here's some Flyer's reaction to Sbisa to get a better idea of what we're getting.

Pre-trade
"I will kill someone if Giroux or Sbisa are traded..."
"I sware to god if it's Giroux or Sbisa. Parent, I'll live, but if it's one of those two. I'm confident it's not because Homer wouldn't trade Giroux for Bouwmeester, and the entire organization thinks the world of Sbisa."
"I will be sooooooo sooooo sooooo angry if they trade Giroux or Sbisa SO ANGRY. JVR or Parent I could really care less."
"I wouldn't mind sbisa if the return is good...I'll kill myself if they trade Giroux though...I would also like to keep Parent, more than Sbisa."
"total fail if we traded giroux, jvr, sbisa or parent. Don't really care if we traded the 1st."
"I would rather lose JVR than Sbisa. And I don't want to lose JVR either. Please do not let this be true."

After confirmed:
"If true (TSN reporting it now - the Lupul,Sbisa, 2 picks) ... I'm upset about Sbisa."
"Id rather move Sbisa then Parent though."
"this was a ******, if they extend Pronger right away at a decent rate I'll be a little happier, but I would have much rather traded the redundant and soft Parent than Sbisa"
"Losing Sbisa sucks , but I could give 2 ***** about the other pieces, these 1st rd picks would not even have a sniff at making this team anytime soon."
"If sbisa wasn't involved it would be awesome. However thats not the case and I think we overpaid. Sbisa is going to be a he'll of a player. Get pronger signed to a 3 year deal and it won't be sooo bad"
"I understand what people are saying about others complaining too much about losing Sbisa, but I think a lot of people here just end up liking our own players so much that it is hard to see them go- especially Sbisa who we all knew could actually play since he play 39 games with us- its not like he is some prospect that we don't know that he can handle the NHL- he did decently this year and apparently did really well in Lethbridge when he went back. -- Pronger is cool though- I'm a bit worried about all the PIMs we might rack up with him in a Flyers jersey."
"I dont mind giving up Lupul but I am not too happy giving up Sbisa, I kinda rather have given up JVR to be honest...If Pronger delivers a cup in the next couple years than of course I will say Sbisa who???"

Oh and this one gets quoted with identity. I'm sure those who peruse the trade board will recognize the owner.
Well we had damned well better win the ****ing cup next year because I'm not very ****ing happy right now. In fact I'm pissed as ****ing hell. We should have traded ****ing Carle instead of Sbisa or at least had the 2010 1st been conditional upon us making thefinals or something. That's ****ing more than Pronger got in return either of the other 2 times he was traded in the last 5 years and now he'd what 33 with only 1 yars left on his cntract??? That's just a ****ing retarded amount to give up for him.

Not that much talk about what he does or brings to the team though. Some mention of him being undersized (I think he needs some more physical maturation... he was decent in the NHL because of his mental game above all else).

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 12:16 AM

Chimaera

06-27-2009, 12:21 AM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/mcphee-price-for-pronger-too-h.html?wprss=capitalsinsider

http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/in-the-room/2009/jun/26/more-on-marcus-johansson/

Chimaera

06-27-2009, 12:25 AM

http://capitals.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=809&id=44322

about 3:01 in McPhee says it basically.

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 12:29 AM

Duckstudd269

06-27-2009, 12:30 AM

I'm very happy with this trade.

Pronger had only one more year on his contract and if I had to choose between him or Scotty I'd take the latter, the true leader when it matters.

Sure, I'll miss Pronger's nasty style but we got a lot out of him. Sbisa is gonna be good, two first (Palmieri) will help restocking for the future and Lupul can't be any worse than Christensen or whoever we have on the second line with Selanne.

I say great job by Bob Murray.

The problem is that Lupul makes 4.25, apparently has a NTC, and is signed for 4 more years! That's way to much IMO. Not only do we have to overpay him, but we can kiss Koivu goodbye now...

Maybe it's me but I hate the idea of a Lupul-Ebbett-Selanne line.

Ducksforcup

06-27-2009, 12:34 AM

The Ducks needed to take Lupul in order to make this trade work. Plus, he does fill a need the team has.

I love the direction Murray is taking with this team. He really seems to know what he is doing and we are finally getting value for our unrestricted free agents.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-27-2009, 12:39 AM

The problem is that Lupul makes 4.25, apparently has a NTC, and is signed for 4 more years! That's way to much IMO. Not only do we have to overpay him, but we can kiss Koivu goodbye now...

Maybe it's me but I hate the idea of a Lupul-Ebbett-Selanne line.
It sounded to me like Murray told Lupul that more was coming in terms of scoring help, at least insofar as it effected where he'd play.

Given that Murray also asked Selanne to talk to "free agents" while in Finland, I think there's still a chance that we don't wind up with Ebbett as our #2.

Talentless Practise

06-27-2009, 12:41 AM

Murray was asking for a young goalie from Washington in a package for Pronger which seems to me would indicate he's going to move a goalie. If it is Giggy who gets moved then we have a ton of space to go for UFA's.

Chimaera

06-27-2009, 12:43 AM

Thanks. Some interesting stuff there. Always good to hear other GMs.

To others: McPhee said they only talked briefly. They were just talking as "exploring," Washington wasn't interested in that kind of trade "that direction." So the Carlson, goalie, plus stuff was more of a "starting price" from the Ducks. Shoot high.

Also: he says the draft went pretty much as they had on the board. So that means he thought Schroeder was only about that good?

I really don't think they had a ton of talk with the Ducks. I think your GM probably fielded some calls and the Caps did their courtesy, but since the price is similar to that of what they wanted at the deadline, I don't think it was a long inquiry. I do think when it came down to it, that Varlamov, Carlson, Laich and a 1st might have been too much for the Caps to swallow at this point.

McPhee's always difficult to read. He doesn't really come out and say what he means which can be said for most GMs. Two years ago, he didn't feel they would be active during the deadline (to the press) and they went out and got Fedorov, Huet, and Cooke. He said last year he had little interest in Gustafsson, then he drafted him. "how he felt the board would go" doesn't exactly mean that everyone ended up where they felt they would end up, but more or less that they would have a shot at getting their guy where they wanted him.

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 12:44 AM

Interestingly, in his conference call Murrays says that he made the decision to move Pronger late last night, and that he was going to make this Pronger trade "no matter what Scott was going to do." He was going to start preparing for when neither Pronger or Niedermayer was going to be here.

Murray sometimes just rambles on, and pauses awkwardly and sighs for no reason. Oh, and Murray says this offer was well above all the other offers Murray had. "Nothing else was close to it." Paul Holmgren really wanted it.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-27-2009, 12:45 AM

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-27-2009, 12:46 AM

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 12:50 AM

Ringing, articulate endorsement from Murray about Sbisa.

He's really excited about him.

Why, you ask? "He plays... He's not... He can do everything... He's a guy that just shows up, and goes out and plays... which.... I like."

Now I know exactly all about him!

But seriously, Murray is excited about him.
You have a link to that?
2nd link here:
http://ducks.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=431825

Talentless Practise

06-27-2009, 12:55 AM

Assuming he can shed significant salary in moving Giguere.

Ofcourse. Or that after the trade we have no need for a 2nd line center anymore.

Duckstudd269

06-27-2009, 01:02 AM

It sounded to me like Murray told Lupul that more was coming in terms of scoring help, at least insofar as it effected where he'd play.

Given that Murray also asked Selanne to talk to "free agents" while in Finland, I think there's still a chance that we don't wind up with Ebbett as our #2.

With what cap space? Honestly, now I think Murray should have two priorities:

Trade Jiggy. We absolutely have to have that cap space now.
Resign Beauchemin. I love Sbisa, but I don't want to count on him as a top 4 right now.. If we can resign Beauchemin we will still have a good defensive unit:

S.Niedermayer-Beauchemin/Wiz
Whitney-Wiz/Beauchemin
Sbisa-Salcido
Brookbank

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 01:08 AM

It sounded to me like Murray told Lupul that more was coming in terms of scoring help, at least insofar as it effected where he'd play.

Given that Murray also asked Selanne to talk to "free agents" while in Finland, I think there's still a chance that we don't wind up with Ebbett as our #2.
"Other players coming in or not coming in"

Not coming in sounds suspiciously like Selanne, who would play Lupul's preferred RW spot. Maybe that's what he meant instead of "another player may be signed/acquired who could take LW/C so Lupul doesn't have to."

MOENing

06-27-2009, 01:23 AM

I love it. Pronger needed to go. I don't care about the whole niedermayer issue he's still awesome. We will still have a get d if we resign Frankie.

190Octane

06-27-2009, 01:25 AM

If we get a playmaking center Lupul and Selanne might be good for 25 goals each on the 2nd line.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-27-2009, 01:44 AM

"Other players coming in or not coming in"

Not coming in sounds suspiciously like Selanne, who would play Lupul's preferred RW spot. Maybe that's what he meant instead of "another player may be signed/acquired who could take LW/C so Lupul doesn't have to."
I suppose, but I've kind of taken it as a given that Selanne and No News were a package deal.

But for the sake of argument, suppose it is Selanne, then maybe there's still hope for the three offensive line scheme. Carlyle like player pairs rather than line trios, and Marchant and Lupul were good together (with Penner) at the end of 05-06, so maybe we get 3 lines built around Getzlaf/Perry, Ryan/Selanne, and Lupul/Marchant pairs.

chimrichalds18

06-27-2009, 01:49 AM

flyers fan here. haven't read through the entire thread, but i'll put my two cents in. if we can re-sign pronger, i'll be happy. you never like giving up picks, but oh well.

lupul - you guys know what you're getting. i think the reason most of us were fine with him going was because we've got a decent amount of O depth and have people like gagne, giroux, richards, carter carrying our offense. of all the western conference teams - or nhl teams for that matter - the ducks are one of the best fits for lupul. you guys throw your weight around and have those big bruisers. he's at the top of his game when he hits, and he can. at one point in the 2007-2008 season, he was near the top our team in hits. joffrey lupul. who would've thunk? he got hurt and i think last year was the year he got over it. he did really well with richards, so maybe putting him with getzlaf would be a good idea. not exactly the same type of player, but comparable and definitely the center of your team. you guys would know better than i would.

now to sbisa. as you witnessed, we loved him. the kid's got a fantastic attitude, he's in great condition, and he's only gonna get better. he looked out of position and overmatched at times, sure, but the kid's got brains and you just can't teach that. he's got the tools, just give him time. he was one of the safest picks in the draft last year and there's a reason for that.

also to clarify - i believe the deal on lupul's NTC is something like this -- it doesn't kick in until july 2010 and it's limited. like he can submit a list of 6 (i think) teams he doesn't want to go to. the other 23 are fair game. the details may be a little off, but i'm pretty sure it wasn't a full NTC.

best of luck to you guys. i've always liked the ducks, and now there's a couple more reasons.

190Octane

06-27-2009, 01:50 AM

I suppose, but I've kind of taken it as a given that Selanne and No News were a package deal.

But for the sake of argument, suppose it is Selanne, then maybe there's still hope for the three offensive line scheme. Carlyle like player pairs rather than line trios, and Marchant and Lupul were good together (with Penner) at the end of 05-06, so maybe we get 3 lines built around Getzlaf/Perry, Ryan/Selanne, and Lupul/Marchant pairs.

Why split up that first line when we have two goal scorers now on the second? We just need a decent center now and we have one amazing line and one decent one.

caliamad

06-27-2009, 01:55 AM

Everyone who is syaing Lupul sucks needs to rattle their head a little. His situation in Edmonton wasnt ideal, and the pressure in Philly might have been a little too much on him. The fans their are pretty insane and the fans in Anaheim seem more laid back.

Remember, his seasons were in Anaheim as a youngster. He could very well regain some of that chemistry.

Ok thanks buddy. We saw him enough to know what type of player he is. He's a sniper, nothing more. He doesn't have great speed or vision. He's not physical or good defensively.

He's a great guy, he's happy to be in Anaheim, and his teamates love/will love him. But he is what he is.

In the modern NHL, its tough to pay a guy like 4.25 million for 4 years.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-27-2009, 01:56 AM

Why split up that first line when we have two goal scorers now on the second? We just need a decent center now and we have one amazing line and one decent one.
Because Lupul-Ebbett-Selanne in the playoffs is as bad as Christensen-Ebbett-Selanne was. I don't see much effectiveness there.

Getzlaf and Perry are a top line by themselves, and Ryan elevates any line he's on. Given how useless our 3rd line looks the way you have it set up, I'm kind of leaning my way.

caliamad

06-27-2009, 02:00 AM

Why split up that first line when we have two goal scorers now on the second? We just need a decent center now and we have one amazing line and one decent one.

and a respectable 3rd line with Carter/Ebbett/Nokia/Miller.

That 2nd line center is gonna have to be something special though. Lupul / Selanne are gonna need help defensively.

buddhalicious

06-27-2009, 02:07 AM

The problem is that Lupul makes 4.25, apparently has a NTC, and is signed for 4 more years! That's way to much IMO. Not only do we have to overpay him, but we can kiss Koivu goodbye now...

Maybe it's me but I hate the idea of a Lupul-Ebbett-Selanne line.

Lupul, I believe will be used on the first line with Getzlaf and Perry. He is a pure sniper. He, Lupul needs a two-way center to cover his butt.

I think Bob is still in the market for a second line center for Selanne and Ryan. Just like Lupul, Teemu needs a two-way center to feed him the puck and cover his ass when the other team transitions going the other way.

I believe it will come via trade rather than free agency and will include Ebbett with "something else" going the other way.

go kim johnsson 514

06-27-2009, 02:09 AM

Lupul sucked at LW as a Duck. But he is a few years older. :dunno:

Yeah Lupul was the salary balancer. But then there's other possible ones, such as Jones or Carle. Maybe Murray just thought a forward, any forward, was better than another D.

LOL, NTC. Forgot about that. Makes his contract even worse. Although in our case... we could decline to honor his NTC since he got traded before it kicked in.

It was never kicked in because the contract didn't go into effect until July 1, 2009.

That said his NTC only includes 6 teams. A curious number when you think about how many teams currently play in Canada.

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 02:12 AM

It was never kicked in because the contract didn't go into effect until July 1, 2009.

That said his NTC only includes 6 teams. A curious number when you think about how many teams currently play in Canada.
Yeah that's what I meant. For any team other than the Flyers, Lupul doesn't have an NTC (unless for some strange reason they want to honor it).

edit: oh yeah, back to Murray's conference call. He says this on Pronger: the cupboard was empty. Now he's got some bullets, and he can build again to win. It could happen very quickly.... It was going to be very difficult to sign Chris going forward. Then if you lose him for nothing, we couldn't do that. So when an offer like this comes along, you listen.

That probably gets into why he chose Niedermayer over Pronger despite captain indecisivemayer screwing the team so many times. Pronger wouldn't sign for cheap/short enough. He wants Niedermayer for now, and Niedermayer's cap space for later (ie for QP?)

190Octane

06-27-2009, 02:21 AM

Because Lupul-Ebbett-Selanne in the playoffs is as bad as Christensen-Ebbett-Selanne was. I don't see much effectiveness there.

Getzlaf and Perry are a top line by themselves, and Ryan elevates any line he's on. Given how useless our 3rd line looks the way you have it set up, I'm kind of leaning my way.

I agree that Ebbett centering that line would be horrible but Koivu might not be so bad.

Ebbett + Hiller might be able to get us something decent also.

Duckstudd269

06-27-2009, 02:23 AM

I love it. Pronger needed to go. I don't care about the whole niedermayer issue he's still awesome. We will still have a get d if we resign Frankie.

What? If we resign Frankie we are set on defense. If we don't we better get an adequate replacement or we're screwed. If Beauchemin is signed our defense looks good, just not as good as last years, but I'd take it since our offense should be better.

Why do we need another defensemen if Frankie is resigned?

S.Niedermayer-Wiz
Whitney-Beauchemin
Sbisa-Salcido
Brookbank

IMO, our biggest need now is to resign Beauchemin, trade Jiggy, and upgrade the second line center spot. Adding Neil would be nice as well, but we may have to get rid of someone on the roster for that to happen.

Duckstudd269

06-27-2009, 02:28 AM

I agree that Ebbett centering that line would be horrible but Koivu might not be so bad.

Ebbett + Hiller might be able to get us something decent also.

Koivu would be awesome, but it's not even an option unless Jiggy is traded. Resigning Beauchemin is key priority now though. Anyone know if the Pronger trade affects Murray's thought on resigning him? Anybody heard anything?

Paul4587

06-27-2009, 03:05 AM

and a respectable 3rd line with Carter/Ebbett/Nokia/Miller.

That 2nd line center is gonna have to be something special though. Lupul / Selanne are gonna need help defensively.

No offense but that third line is pretty bad. If we can't sign a second line center such as Koivu then I wouldn't be opposed to these lines:

Carter - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan - Ebbett - Selanne
Miller/Christensen - Marchant - Lupul
Brown - Nokelainen - Parros/Bodie.

Duckstudd269

06-27-2009, 03:08 AM

No offense but that third line is pretty bad. If we can't sign a second line center such as Koivu then I wouldn't be opposed to these lines:

Carter - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan - Ebbett - Selanne
Miller/Christensen - Marchant - Lupul
Brown - Nokelainen - Parros/Bodie.

I realize that Carter looks good on the top line on paper, but Carlyle has shown that he will never give Carter a full time role on this team, let alone a top line role.

MOENing

06-27-2009, 03:14 AM

Professor John Frink

06-27-2009, 03:39 AM

What? If we resign Frankie we are set on defense. If we don't we better get an adequate replacement or we're screwed. If Beauchemin is signed our defense looks good, just not as good as last years, but I'd take it since our offense should be better.

Why do we need another defensemen if Frankie is resigned?

S.Niedermayer-Wiz
Whitney-Beauchemin
Sbisa-Salcido
Brookbank

IMO, our biggest need now is to resign Beauchemin, trade Jiggy, and upgrade the second line center spot. Adding Neil would be nice as well, but we may have to get rid of someone on the roster for that to happen.

You guys can take this for what it is worth, but I talked to someone on the Ducks tonight who told me Beauchemin has almost zero interest in coming back to Anaheim. He has a very big desire to play on the East coast close to home.

Again take it for what it is worth, but unless the Ducks offer huge money(which I doubt) Frankie is gone. From what this Ducks player told me.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-27-2009, 03:42 AM

That's not surprising.

CanadianPantherFan

06-27-2009, 03:57 AM

I thought you guys loved Lupul,guess not anymore. I know the CAP hit and all...but we'll take Lupul and Beauch...we'll let you talk to Bou and sign him:D

iLau

06-27-2009, 05:32 AM

I don't mind Lupul, but I remember him sucking at LW. I actually liked him a lot when he was in Anaheim. His work ethic is meh, but hopefully he has matured by now.

Strizzi

06-27-2009, 06:05 AM

We got back the same deal we gave the Oilers. So we keep Pronger for three years, win a Stanley Cup and didn't get short changed on value.
That's extremely good asset management. Kudos to Murray.

ktulu98

06-27-2009, 06:14 AM

we've got good value back, but I would rather have prongs than niedermayer.

niedermayer is absolutly amazing, no doubt about it but every year we will face this again and again. will he play 1 more year or not...

Ducks

06-27-2009, 12:20 PM

I was at disneyland all day yesterday so i didnt get a chance to post about my thoughts on all this.

First off, Murray is turning out to be a trade genius. Was this guy a used car salesman at one point? I wish I could listen in on his sales pitches. It sucks to lose pronger, but getting Lupul, Sbisa, 1st 09, 1st 10 and a conditional third essentially for Pronger (Dingle omgzorz :sarcasm:) is a serious deal.

Also, trading down on that 21st was a smart move. We probably got the guy we wanted at 26 anyway and picking early in the 2nd round is a very nice position. They had all night to think about who they wanted at 38 out of everyone who was left. Early 2nd round picks have a history of being pretty good.

Back on to Lupul...So it's kind of like a Penner situation, though I feel like Lupul has more talent than Penner. But he's young, wants to play here, and will most likely replace Selanne going forward. Those are three things that the Ducks need right now. Sbisa sounds like our #1 prospect now which is awesome, and I seriously doubt Murray is done here.

We still have a Goalie to move, and a ton of prospects on D that can be thrown in to a trade for some more 2nd line offense. Though, isn't Salcido a RFA? we need to hurry and sign him even if it's just to trade him because he has to have value with everything he has done in the AHL.

I'm sure Selanne is coming back this season. Next season not so much.

anyway random thoughts on all of yesterday's happenings.

Pepper

06-27-2009, 12:32 PM

The condition for the 3rd pick is Philly winning the cup, not Pronger's extension.

So you can pretty much count that 3rd as 100% since Flyers won't win the cup with Biron and Emery.

caliamad

06-27-2009, 12:44 PM

heusy_79

06-27-2009, 12:53 PM

But that 3rd pairing will be real ugly. Mitera/Sbisa/Festerling/Mikkelson/Salcido.

Uh why would that be so bad? Mitera and Sbisa are two of our top 3 prospects, and will both eventually be top 4 d-men. They might have their struggles next year but many teams would kill to have two solid young NHL ready prospects on the blueline.

BTW my d pairings would look like this:

Nieds Wiz
Whitney Sbisa
Mitera Brookbank
Festerling

Go_Krog

06-27-2009, 12:59 PM

who knows, maybe theyll see if montador would want to come back. he played much better here than he did with boston. could be a good solution for bottom pairing.

FlyersCup08

06-27-2009, 01:01 PM

I can't believe everyone here not only doesn't LOVE this deal, but actually hates it. Pronger is 35 years old, with a $6.25M cap hit. For Anaheim, you get a 25 year old winger with, albeit a ridiculous contract, but still the ability to put up 50+ points. You also get a 19 year old defenseman who looked like an NHL regular at 18, which is insane for defensemen. Just wait until Sbisa is 21 or 22, and you'll be in love with him. Add on top of that that you got 2 1st rounders, a potential 3rd, and that is just icing on the cake.

Unless you're all really sad about losing Ryan Dingle (which believe me, I can't wait to see this guy, best deal in years getting him!), stop crying and realize that you just robbed the Flyers blind.

jax00

06-27-2009, 01:02 PM

ericnut

06-27-2009, 01:04 PM

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 01:05 PM

The condition for the 3rd pick is Philly winning the cup, not Pronger's extension.

So you can pretty much count that 3rd as 100% since Flyers won't win the cup with Biron and Emery.
So basically it's covering for the drop in the 1st round pick 2010 if Philly wins out. 30th overal + 85thl vs say 25th OA.
I can't believe everyone here not only doesn't LOVE this deal, but actually hates it. Pronger is 35 years old, with a $6.25M cap hit. For Anaheim, you get a 25 year old winger with, albeit a ridiculous contract, but still the ability to put up 50+ points. You also get a 19 year old defenseman who looked like an NHL regular at 18, which is insane for defensemen. Just wait until Sbisa is 21 or 22, and you'll be in love with him. Add on top of that that you got 2 1st rounders, a potential 3rd, and that is just icing on the cake.

Unless you're all really sad about losing Ryan Dingle (which believe me, I can't wait to see this guy, best deal in years getting him!), stop crying and realize that you just robbed the Flyers blind.
Actually I like the value. It's quite good. I love Sbisa. I don't like Lupul in there, but realize we had to get some crap salary. Personally, I think Lupul got us the extra 1st round pick (vs say a 2nd or something). I think most of us are against Lupul, not against the trade as a whole. The other source of anger is in choosing to move Pronger and not Indecisivemayer.

mmbt

06-27-2009, 01:11 PM

While his cap hit is a bit high, I have no problem with Lupul coming back. Say what you want about his defensive game and work ethic, but the bottom line he can score some ****ing goals. We have plenty of workers and grinders, and a scorer was badly needed.

Not to mention, despite his streakiness he's scored some big playoff goals as well. Granted, it's usually after being invisible for a while, but that's okay for a supporting scorer.

He's gotta play with the right guys though.

snarktacular

06-27-2009, 01:12 PM

dEeq_blRLqE

I'd say yes.
Hmm. Come to think of it, he fought with Braydon Schenn. IE the Kings pick this year.

Savynquick

06-27-2009, 01:21 PM

I've not read anything in here, but the Ducks just schooled Phili. This is coming from an unbiased Bruins fan. Absolutely owned them in this deal.

Orange and Black

06-27-2009, 01:33 PM

I've not read anything in here, but the Ducks just schooled Phili. This is coming from an unbiased Bruins fan. Absolutely owned them in this deal.

Yes, in two to three years, this trade will absolutely prove to be lopsided going forward. However, as a Flyers fan, we NEEDed a Pronger-type - not just for his on-ice presence (which is awesome), but also his leadership.

I'm pumped to have my favorite non-Flyer now in orange and black, and we rid ourselves of Lups - its a win-win in my book.

ktulu98

06-27-2009, 02:28 PM

do you think we will see nieds and sbisa together?

sure hell kid can learn from master :)

caliamad

06-27-2009, 02:29 PM

Uh why would that be so bad? Mitera and Sbisa are two of our top 3 prospects, and will both eventually be top 4 d-men. They might have their struggles next year but many teams would kill to have two solid young NHL ready prospects on the blueline.

BTW my d pairings would look like this:

Nieds Wiz
Whitney Sbisa
Mitera Brookbank
Festerling

We really shouldn't rush both Sbisa & Mitera. I can see one of them making the team but not both.

Flyer fans said Sbisa played great well initally called up but then started to fade. It sounds like he could use more time in the AHL.

Plus we really should give one of Salcido/Mikkelson/Festerling an opportunity to play every day. One of them will be counted on for 2010-2011 to play decent minutes (when Scotty/Brookbank are gone).

go kim johnsson 514

06-27-2009, 02:31 PM

Ta. I was reading around a couple of Philly players a couple of days ago and I was impressed with some of the things being said about him

Look at it this way:

September 2008, Paul Holmgren remarks to the media that Luca Sbisa earned a spot on the team, regardless of whether Ryan Parent was injured to start the season.

January 2009, after making some trades, Sbisa is sent back to juniors so that Ryan Parent can fit on the team, and under the cap.

Now if he was the best player, shouldn't he have been around the whole season?

It was a heated debate, basically drawing the line between the Holmgren Apostles and those who know better than to drink the Flyers' kool-aid.

In my view, he was not an NHL defenseman last year, and Holmgren having to send him back to juniors in January was a testament to that.

That's not to say Sbisa won't be a terrific player. I think he still will be and when he was drafted, was my personal BPA at the pick.

The Ducks have the players on defense capable of playing (and whom your GM has faith in, the Flyers did not have such faith in their farm players), that he can go to the AHL if warranted.

Quattro

06-27-2009, 03:24 PM

Fantastic deal for the Ducks. As much as it pains me to say it as a Kings fan, Murray is doing an unbelievable job as your GM. I thought Burke left you guys in a world of hurt but Murray has transformed the team in a few months. If he gets someone to take Jiggy's contract, he is a mortal lock for GM of the year.

Jray42

06-27-2009, 03:40 PM

wow we got owned ( im a flyers fan), sbisa is going to be amazing....

Tommy D

06-27-2009, 04:11 PM

NWO

06-27-2009, 04:24 PM

Talentless Practise

06-27-2009, 04:37 PM

can one of you duck fans tell me 1. where do the ducks stand cap wise? where is their current totla slaary at righ tnow, estimate is fine. 2. how many layers htey have locked up anf how many will need to be signed. Thanks.

These matters are discussed in the offseason-thread at length but i'll humor you.

Ducks are currently spending around 36M for enough forwards, 4 defensemen (Whitney, Sbisa, Brookbank, Mikkelson) and 2 goalies. Scott Niedermayer and James Wisniewski should be signed to round out the defense and Todd Marchant + maybe a 2nd line center added to improve the offense.

cantskate

06-27-2009, 04:40 PM

I'm not a ducks fan, but think this is a great move. This kid Sbisa played well for Philly last year as rookie, and he's going to be very good, sooner rather than later. He may not set the world on fire next season, but I don't think you have long to wait. Getting Lupul will help with the secondary scoring. Just as Pronger is reaching the end of the road, you will be rolling in first round picks.

Chone

06-27-2009, 05:01 PM

I really like Lupul. I guess I'm the only one.

Is the "S" in Sbisa silent?

It's kinda nice, It's like we got to return Pronger for what we gave up, except they were out of Smid, so they gave us a Sbisa instead! Win!

Jray42

06-27-2009, 05:04 PM

no it is not silent (s-be-sa)

Duckstudd269

06-27-2009, 06:33 PM

I don't think we're getting Beach back, that 4 top D forward is gonna be very rough the 1st half of they year until a kid grows into it. Maybe Brookbank gets the nod there...

So we can put Niedermayer and Wiz against other team's top lines.

Then Use Whitney / Brookbank w/ the Getzlaf line.

But that 3rd pairing will be real ugly. Mitera/Sbisa/Festerling/Mikkelson/Salcido.

But thats what we have to go with until we solve the 2nd line center problems. Its easier to fill a bottom 4 D than a top 6 center. Montador may not be a bad option provided he's not too $$$. Sounds like he stock fell a ton after he left anaheim.

I don't see us splliting up the PRG line, even with Lupul. I think Ryan wants to be there and the organization clearly is concerned about making him happy/resigning him.

For our bottom 6 forwards, I think people are underating how valuable a Carter / Ebbett / Christensen line would be. Remember they will be seeing other team's 4th line. We can through Nokia or Parros in there to give them more muscle/defensive responsibility.

I'd like to keep some sort of checking line, so bringing Marchant is a good move in my books. Brown I think can do well there too. Then you can use Nokia or Rob.

I hope we move on past the Miller experiment.

The third pairing will be ugly? I'm fine with the 3rd pairing because they only play 10-12 minutes a game. However, now that Pronger is gone, we do not have someone on each top pairing to baby sit players who aren't ready to handle big minutes. If Brookbank is playing top 4 minutes for us consistenly next year then we will struggle to make the playoffs, let alone be competitive. We have to add another top 4 guy, whether it's Beauchemin or not. I disagree about another top 4 being more important then a 2nd line center. Ebbett is not ideal but i'd much rather see him on the 2nd line then Brookbank as a top 4 defensemen. Maybe Murray can get kaberle from Toronto after all. Jiggy for Kablere and we're set defensively.

S.Niedermayer-Kaberle
Whitney-Wiz
Sbisa-Salcido
Brookbank

Putting Brookbank in the top 4 will kill this team's chances of being competitive.

bumperkisser

06-27-2009, 09:33 PM

If we go giggy for kaberle I will be very pleased UNLESS of course hiller starts sucking ass.. lol
Thats the thing.. its a big risk trading giguere because even though we ened the cap sapce n salary, hiller hasn't proved he can handle a full season

caliamad

06-27-2009, 10:20 PM

wesott11

06-27-2009, 11:51 PM

Burke is terrible but not THAT terrible... If he does make a kaberle for jiggy trade,Toronto fans will riot

Bender66

06-28-2009, 01:44 AM

Sbisa = nice!

Lupul = meh. If he gets put on LW with the twins, maybe his love for shooting the puck from anywhere will make up for Getzlaf's retarded dislike for shooting.

Someone warn the Powerplayers, and fire up the hot tubs ...

Gustafsson

06-28-2009, 11:54 AM

Sbisa could very well end up a Kaberle-Kronwall hybrid within 4 seasons. He is that good.

His composure is fantastic for a kid. He can skate, move the puck and play physical.

He is also a very confident player.

S.S. Giggy

06-28-2009, 01:29 PM

S.Niedermayer-Kaberle
Whitney-Wiz
Sbisa-Salcido
Brookbank

Putting Brookbank in the top 4 will kill this team's chances of being competitive.

Probably not likely to happen. I do think that Murray will go out and get a top 4 veteran stay-at-home that can handle 20-22 minutes per night and pair him up with Whitney so that Wisniewski can play with Scott. Sbisa, if he has a good camp, will slide in every now and then to play with Scott just so he can be mentored by him. Salsa, Mikks, Fest, and Brooks will be fighting for the bottom pairing.

VictoryRose

06-28-2009, 01:32 PM

I like Sbisa, he handled the poor timing of Flyer injuries well last year. By the time he came to Anaheim on the road, he was playing 4th line center minutes, but still playing. You guys got a great return for Chris, much to my chagrin.

Duckstudd269

06-28-2009, 01:39 PM

Probably not likely to happen. I do think that Murray will go out and get a top 4 veteran stay-at-home that can handle 20-22 minutes per night and pair him up with Whitney so that Wisniewski can play with Scott. Sbisa, if he has a good camp, will slide in every now and then to play with Scott just so he can be mentored by him. Salsa, Mikks, Fest, and Brooks will be fighting for the bottom pairing.

Kaberle is wishful thinking I know. I just brought it up because Burke said publicly that he might make an offer for Jiggy later in the season. I wasn't suggesting a deal for Jiggy for Kaberle straight up, but they would be part of the packages. However, now that Murray has gone public and said he probably will not trade Jiggy, I don't think Kaberle is coming this way either. However, I still stand by my statement that in order to be competitive next year, we HAVE to sign another top 4 guy. Depending on Brookbank to play top 4 minutes will kill this teams chances. I agree that Sbisa will probably see some time in the top 4, but to count on him full time at 19 would hurt his development IMO.

Elvstrand

06-28-2009, 02:10 PM

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-28-2009, 02:16 PM

Elvstrand

06-28-2009, 02:27 PM

Heh, he has a good shot though tbh. Seriously though, we now have 5 right handed shooters in our top 6. Hopefully that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

mmbt

06-28-2009, 02:59 PM

I can't remember this... Which is kind of odd, it's not like you see that every day. When was the last time a Duck scored 4 goals in one game? Or was this the last time? Is it even the only time?

It's the only time a player scored 4 goals including an OT winner in the playoffs, and the first time any player has scored all 4 of his team's goals.

He also had that game 7 OT winner for Philly. The guy may do nothing a lot of the time, but he does seem to have a knack for making appearances at important moments. It's just about ideal for a supporting scorer.

Elvstrand

06-28-2009, 03:54 PM

From faceoff.com:

ASSETS: Has a goal-scorer's mentality, creative instincts and solid offensive acumen. Does a decent job in the defensive zone.
FLAWS: Tends to disappear for long stretches, especially from the score sheet. Isn't a great skater, which limits his overall potential.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Top six winger.

Now that's interesting! Although, these reports sometimes sucks. But it's not like they will just make things up. So while it maybe doesn't mean he's good in the defensive zone, it should mean he isn't terrible defensively.

elicw10

06-28-2009, 06:15 PM

YOu guys made out like bandits, take it and RUUUN!

Elvstrand

06-28-2009, 06:57 PM

Elvstrand

06-28-2009, 07:32 PM

Oh almost forgot... Someone mentiod Lupul has a NTC in his contract, but didn't sound too sure if I remember correctly, anyone know if this is true for certain?

Talentless Practise

06-28-2009, 07:43 PM

Oh almost forgot... Someone mentiod Lupul has a NTC in his contract, but didn't sound too sure if I remember correctly, anyone know if this is true for certain?

He has limited NTC that contains 6 teams. Presumably the 6 canadian teams. The NTC kicks in July 1st.

I was just browsing teh internets and came across this which made me realize just how spoiled we've been the last few years:

http://cdn.nhl.com/ducks/images/upload/2009/05/859907410529.jpg

CP will be sorely missed on our blueline.

snarktacular

06-28-2009, 07:52 PM

Oh almost forgot... Someone mentiod Lupul has a NTC in his contract, but didn't sound too sure if I remember correctly, anyone know if this is true for certain?
He has an NTC, there's no doubt about that. The doubt is whether the Ducks will honor it or not. As a guy traded before his NTC kicks in, the Ducks have the choice to allow the NTC to take effect or not. I wouldn't if I were them.

Punch Imlach

06-28-2009, 07:55 PM

YOu guys made out like bandits, take it and RUUUN!

Came to say the same thing. This trade sets up Anaheim to be contenders for years.

Bobby Ryan Getzlaf

06-28-2009, 09:31 PM

He has limited NTC that contains 6 teams. Presumably the 6 canadian teams. The NTC kicks in July 1st.

I was just browsing teh internets and came across this which made me realize just how spoiled we've been the last few years:

http://cdn.nhl.com/ducks/images/upload/2009/05/859907410529.jpg

CP will be sorely missed on our blueline.

Why would it be the 6 Canadian teams? His year with the hometown Oilers was a miserable one for him and he sounded ridiculously happy to be back here.

Paul4587

06-28-2009, 09:37 PM

Why would it be the 6 Canadian teams? His year with the hometown Oilers was a miserable one for him and he sounded ridiculously happy to be back here.

I was under the impression he would pick 6 teams he doesn't want to go to.

iLau

06-28-2009, 09:50 PM

Lupul might not be the hardest worker but he has a hell of a shot.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-28-2009, 10:02 PM

Lupul might not be the hardest worker but he has a hell of a shot.
By far his best attribute. He's dying for a Sean Skahan offseason.

BraveSirRobin

06-29-2009, 12:31 AM

Going through Lupul's goals on NHL.com I discovered a couple of things:

- His goals with the Flyers were in general better looking than his goals with the Oilers. Most of his goals with Edmonton were garbage goals.

- He looked to be slightly faster with the Flyers than with the Oilers and the Mighty Ducks. So either he has improved his skating a bit, or his work ethic.

After looking at some videos of him this past season, it does seem that he worked a bit harder than his first time here. I'm willing to give Lupul another shot, he seems likable and I'm glad that he wants to be here, its just his tendency to be lazy that rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. Here's hoping he's changed a bit.

BeCar9

06-29-2009, 11:07 AM

As a huge flyers fan who lives in the heart of philly, i came on here to see how ducks fans are reacting to the pronger trade. Personally, i think we both got good deals. Yous hate on lupes but we liked him in philly and hes a solid 25 goal/ 50pt player whos plus/minus has greatly improved since his days in ANA and sbisas gonna turn out to be great, just dont do what the flyers did and rush him into the system. Im just excited to see what pronger can do to crosby when he tries to dance through the blue line... GO BOBBY RYAN!

Snotbubbles

06-29-2009, 11:44 AM

Another Flyer's fan here. Sbisa definitely has the tools to be a top 4 defenseman. He needs to fill out his body a bit more to withstand the rigors of an 82 game NHL season. You could see his play tailing off for the Flyers about 30 games into the season. Then he went to his junior team and was logging 30 minutes a game and it really wore on him. He can skate really good and likes to play physical. He didn't do much offensively, but I think he'll develop that part of his game and be a 40pt player in the NHL. Of all the assets the Flyers gave up, this is the only one that really hurts, because he just looked like he was gonna be something special.

You guys have seen Lupul before. But if he can be motivated, he can be a heck of a player. His first season in Philly, he played with a passion and it showed in the results. Then Hatcher laid him out and when he returned he got a high ankle sprain. If he can get back to the pre-Hatcher Lupul, and he gets the ice time he could be a 65pt player. But he goes in and out of effectiveness.

jumptheshark

06-29-2009, 01:11 PM

from an oiler perspective

Ducks got a cupo for a rentle player

Pepper

06-29-2009, 01:34 PM

from an oiler perspective

Ducks got a cupo for a rentle player

:shakehead

Cupo for a rentle player? What is that, ebonics? Fo' shizzle my nizzle!

If that meant to read a coup for a rental player, well Pronger isn't a rental player as he has a full season left in his contract. It was a good trade for the Ducks (fo' shizzle) but it doesn't have to be a bad one for Pronger. It all depends how they'll do next season and whether they can extend his contract.

Talentless Practise

06-29-2009, 01:50 PM

:shakehead

Cupo for a rentle player? What is that, ebonics? Fo' shizzle my nizzle!

If that meant to read a coup for a rental player, well Pronger isn't a rental player as he has a full season left in his contract. It was a good trade for the Ducks (fo' shizzle) but it doesn't have to be a bad one for Pronger. It all depends how they'll do next season and whether they can extend his contract.

I think he meant that because we essentially got the same package for him we gave the Oilers in the first place, you could say we rented him for a few years without losing any assets and got a cup out of the deal.

mmbt

06-29-2009, 02:37 PM

I think he meant that because we essentially got the same package for him we gave the Oilers in the first place, you could say we rented him for a few years without losing any assets and got a cup out of the deal.

So the tally is:
Lupul
Smid
Riley Nash (traded up to get him)
Allen Rourke + 3rd round pick we got back for the Penner sheet
Jordan Eberle

... as compared to:
Lupul
Sbisa
Palmieri
Matt Clark
'10 1st

'06 Lupul was a nice pickup because of his lower contract, but he's a better player now than he was then. I like Sbisa '09 better than Smid '06. Probably a wash overall for the non-picks.

Rourke got cut in camp and is playing in Europe now. The Penner pick ... LOL. They got squat out of that.

So it probably comes down to Nash+Eberle vs. Palmieri+Clark+'10 1st ... might take a while to see how that plays out.

rountree9

06-29-2009, 03:06 PM

Lupul blows and he has a 4.25m cap hit, Sbisa is decent but those two pics aren't exactly going to be high 1st rounders.

Lupul has a 2.9 m cap hit.

He played his best years in anaheim and he scored 25 goals last year.

Pepper

06-29-2009, 03:24 PM

Lupul has a 2.9 m cap hit.

He played his best years in anaheim and he scored 25 goals last year.

Lupul's cap hit is 4.25M.

mm6492

06-29-2009, 04:15 PM

Lupul has a 2.9 m cap hit.

He played his best years in anaheim and he scored 25 goals last year.

His cap hit is 4.25M

I loved Sbisa while he was here, and he is only 19 (he can not even legally drink for 2 years :) )

I was not a Lupul fan, but I think this was a good trade for both teams. Sbisa is teh key, because I think he can be special

Elvstrand

06-29-2009, 04:56 PM

Lupul has a 2.9 m cap hit.

He played his best years in anaheim and he scored 25 goals last year.

Like pepper said, he has a cap hit of $4,25 m. And neither did he have his best years with the Ducks, he was more sucessfull with the Flyers from what I've heard. So hopefully he can keep up the play he had with them.

Spankatola Jamnuts

06-29-2009, 04:58 PM

Sbisa has a groin injury, just disclosed. (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090629_Trade_from_Flyers_discloses_injury.html)

Luca Sbisa disclosed yesterday that he has a groin injury, but that should not void the blockbuster trade that brought standout defenseman Chris Pronger to the Flyers, general manager Paul Holmgren said yesterday.

"It's nothing serious, so it shouldn't be anything to hold it up," Holmgren said.

Ducks general manager Bob Murray could not be reached for comment.

Elvstrand

06-29-2009, 07:08 PM

a try at the Ducks lineup as Murray has offered Christensen a contract:

Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry
Lupul - Christensen/Carter - Selänne
Carter/Christensen - Ebbett - R. Niedermayer
Miller/Nokelainen - Marchant - Brown

Line 2: Christensen did score 9 points in 17 games for the Ducks, that's actually decent. I'd like to see how he would do with a healed shoulder, maybe he would go into traffic at least a little more. If it doesn't work out, try Carter. The reason for putting Christensen there though is for his face off and passing skills, that might go well along with 2 pure snipers. I don't like this line defensively on paper, but I'd like to see that combination in the preseason as I think it could be sucessfull. Having Ebbett as a 3rd line center suits for possible 3 lines being able to score.

Elvstrand

06-29-2009, 08:41 PM

Duckstudd269

06-29-2009, 09:15 PM

Appearently, Christensen has not been given an offer. Although the Ducks remain interest in re-signing him according to OCregister.

They sure better re-sign him! Giving up O'Dell for nothing is just awful, especieally since Christensen was injured and couldn't give his best!

and put him where? He just doesn't fit with this team IMO. The only way he stays is to be a 4th line/ healthy scratch guy, and I just don't see him accepting that role.

TheJoeMan

06-29-2009, 09:17 PM

Appearently, Christensen has not been given an offer. Although the Ducks remain interest in re-signing him according to OCregister.

They sure better re-sign him! Giving up O'Dell for nothing is just awful, especieally since Christensen was injured and couldn't give his best!

Christensen will be hard pressed finding another team who wants him coming off of shoulder surgery and a sub-par season. Murray more than likely wants him to take a pay cut but can't do that if he qualifies him because that brings an automatic 10% raise. I figure a one-year, 700Kish contract is in his near future.

snarktacular

06-29-2009, 11:13 PM

Sbisa has a groin injury, just disclosed. (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090629_Trade_from_Flyers_discloses_injury.html)
I'm sure it will be fine, but what happens hypothetically if Sbisa's injury was major and it caused the trade to break down?

Normally they'd just send all the players back. But we've already used the first pick. Would there be some sort of mediation? Could we ask for someone like JVR/Giroux instead?

snarktacular

06-29-2009, 11:25 PM

Oh, and Woods put up a nice piece on Pronger, his personality, and his perception.

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2009/06/29/ducks-wont-be-the-only-ones-missing-pronger/15505/

Sounds like he's going to miss the big oaf.

decadentia

06-30-2009, 02:00 PM

I'm glad to read Anaheim fans believe Pronger is still a surefire rock. I've always thought so and was quite glad he came to my Flyers. Though I feel we paid out the nose...

All the comments about Sbisa are true. He was somewhat mishandled by the Flyers during this season, but to me I literally expect him to be a #2 type defenseman, worst case #3. I think you guys will really like watching him play, he has a ridiculous confidence for a kid his age. Though sometimes it can get him into trouble, he's going to work that out.

Cheers

Ducks

06-30-2009, 02:37 PM

Elvstrand

06-30-2009, 03:00 PM

Christensen will be hard pressed finding another team who wants him coming off of shoulder surgery and a sub-par season. Murray more than likely wants him to take a pay cut but can't do that if he qualifies him because that brings an automatic 10% raise. I figure a one-year, 700Kish contract is in his near future.

$0,7mil would be fair I guess with a guy with some offensive upside. IMO, Christensen is nowhere as bad as some people make him out to be. 9 points in 17 regular season is decent, and yeah he might not be the hardest worker, but I think most people dislikes him because he couldn't score some empty net goals. IMO, he was often very unlucky, if he had put all those pucks in, some would have loved him.

I can agree with people saying he doesn't fit with the Ducks style of play, but that doesn't mean he sucks. He's good at what he's good at, and that's passing, stick handling, face offs and shootouts. And who knows what the Ducks style of play is going to be next? appearently we are getting ourselves a new identidy.

I guess some teams would have interest in him because of his age, decent offensive upside, and the fact that he would come cheap. Although, I don't think any team would offer him more than $0,850,000. So I guess the chances that he will stay in Anaheim are pretty good as it isn't impossilbe he'd take a $150k paycut rather than having to move again.

Professor John Frink

06-30-2009, 03:26 PM

If there is anything Randy Carlyle truly excels at as a coach, it's developing young defensemen. Under Carlyle, I'm sure that Sbisa will have the best shot at reaching his full potential.

I know I've been pretty openly critical of Carlyle about certain things, but developing Dmen is not one of them, I think he's probably the best in the league.

I for one am a fan of Carlyle. But what has he done with defenseman that prove he has a solid history of developing them?

To me it is the main thing this franchise has lacked always. We have never developed a defenseman in our system. I hope you are correct in your assessment eventually. I just don't see anything to back up the development of defenseman.

Ducks

06-30-2009, 03:30 PM

I for one am a fan of Carlyle. But what has he done with defenseman that prove he has a solid history of developing them?

To me it is the main thing this franchise has lacked always. We have never developed a defenseman in our system. I hope you are correct in your assessment eventually. I just don't see anything to back up the development of defenseman.

I'm not talking about prospects specifically just young defensemen.

All you need to look at since Carlyle has come is how the games of the young defensemen that have been brought in have improved. Beauchemin, Huskins, even Whitney in the short time he's been here, not to mention others whose play has improved since joining the blueline in Anaheim.

There has been a trend the last few years that the younger defensemen we bring in end up playing better in Anaheim then they did for their previous team. I believe Carlyle's experience as a premier defensemen and his coaching style play a large role in that.

Elvstrand

06-30-2009, 07:07 PM

how many points will Lupul put up next season? less than 30, 30-39, 40-49, 50-59, 60-70 or more than 70? (It's in Swedish) Vote here > link (http://www.svenskafans.com/nhl/anaheim/default.asp)

ru4reals

07-07-2009, 04:02 AM

I'm a huge Pronger fan and I'm still very confused to why you guys traded him. Was it his salary, the cap, him wanting to leave? I thought he liked being in Anaheim. It just came up all of a sudden and I just didn't understand. Just curious.

Paul4587

07-07-2009, 05:07 AM

ru4reals

07-07-2009, 05:11 AM

Murray couldn't afford to keep both Pronger and Niedermayer for the upcoming season.

Thanks for the explanation. Couldn't something be done to keep them both?

Spankatola Jamnuts

07-07-2009, 05:17 AM

Trading Pronger also solved depth issues in terms of prospects, long-term assets on the blue line, and scoring.

Elvstrand

07-07-2009, 06:07 AM

Thanks for the explanation. Couldn't something be done to keep them both?

Something could have been done. But it would either kill the youth or the depth of the team. Giguere would have been the only other choice to trade, but he is on a no trade clause.

bleuer

07-07-2009, 04:01 PM

Pronger just signed a 7 year contract, 35M...

Go_Krog

07-07-2009, 04:02 PM

wish he wouldve signed that with Anaheim :(

caliamad

07-07-2009, 04:09 PM

its a 7 year deal, which sounds long considering he'll be 42 at the end, but if he retires early/front loaded deal, its seems pretty freaking nice.

Finnpin

07-07-2009, 04:11 PM

its a 7 year deal, which sounds long considering he'll be 42 at the end, but if he retires early/front loaded deal, its seems pretty freaking nice.Not nice if the cap hit follows Flyers to the end of the contract after Pronger retires.

Talentless Practise

07-07-2009, 04:12 PM

its a 7 year deal, which sounds long considering he'll be 42 at the end, but if he retires early/front loaded deal, its seems pretty freaking nice.

Considering the cap hit stays no matter what, it might end up a bit less than freaking nice.. like atrocious.

Go_Krog

07-07-2009, 04:12 PM

pfft Pronger could easily play into his 40s.

Finnpin

07-07-2009, 04:15 PM

pfft Pronger could easily play into his 40s.Yep but in what level...

jax00

07-07-2009, 04:28 PM

That deal will either be genius or awful.

nilssont

07-07-2009, 04:34 PM

Wow...7 yrs of Chris Pronger, i would so not mind that here :(

Sojourn

07-07-2009, 05:05 PM

pfft Pronger could easily play into his 40s.

Of course he could, but at a high level? That's another matter.

Pronger's game has continued to degrade, and I really wouldn't want to see his level at 40 years old, let alone 42.

Dirk316

07-07-2009, 05:09 PM

Pronger at his wsorst in his 40's will still be a solid #3 its a nice deal for Philly

Twindad

07-07-2009, 05:43 PM

TheJoeMan

07-07-2009, 05:45 PM

So if a player is under contract when he retires, the organization still has to pay him?

That doesn't seem right, so basically if I'm Hossa and just signed a 12 year contract and just said, "I'm going to retire" the club still has to pay him?

Only if he signed the contract being 35 or older. Pronger could retire next season and the Flyers wouldn't have to pay him anything. Whereas if Teemu retired this season we'd have his cap hit no matter what.

Twindad

07-07-2009, 05:50 PM

Only if he signed the contract being 35 or older. Pronger could retire next season and the Flyers wouldn't have to pay him anything. Whereas if Teemu retired this season we'd have his cap hit no matter what.

OK, I see but it still seems kind of wrong.

Anyway, thanks TheJoeman, should change your name to TheAnswerman;)

Talentless Practise

07-07-2009, 05:51 PM

Only if he signed the contract being 35 or older. Pronger could retire next season and the Flyers wouldn't have to pay him anything. Whereas if Teemu retired this season we'd have his cap hit no matter what.
I believe you are mistaken. One needs to be under 35 on June 30 of the year the contract kicks in. On June 30 2010, Pronger will be 35 thus putting the Flyers on the hook for the entire length of the contract..

MEEPSTER4

07-07-2009, 06:08 PM

Wow, Paul Holmgren is even more insane than I thought. 7 years is way too long at his age. I would say a 3-4 year deal would be more appropriate.

Jimgrayson

07-07-2009, 06:23 PM

So if a player is under contract when he retires, the organization still has to pay him?

That doesn't seem right, so basically if I'm Hossa and just signed a 12 year contract and just said, "I'm going to retire" the club still has to pay him?

Hossa is different as he was the over 35 rule doesn't apply. As Talentless said;

One needs to be under 35 on June 30 of the year the contract kicks in. On June 30 2010, Pronger will be 35 thus putting the Flyers on the hook for the entire length of the contract..

If he retired 5 years into the contract, Philly would be on the hook for his cap hit for two years, but wouldn't pay his salary

They could always get a hint he was going to retire, trade him to a team that wants a low wage bill (ie Phoenix). If Pronger was to then retire then Phoenix would have a $5m cap hit with no salary to pay out. Win-win for both teams involved (and Pronger as I assume his contract is front loaded)