Kunitz Dealt with Tangradi for Ryan Whitney - Confirmed

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=268759&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

Wow, I like Whitney but it's Kunie :cry:. Losing Tangradi hurts too.

As per TSN.

Thoughts? I know a lot of you thought highly of Tangradi.

Holy Smokes! We gave up offense to get defense which is what the doctor ordered. Hopefully we can get Whitney into the game tonight against the Bruins.

Terrible....WTF kind of terrible. Whitney has been GOD aweful this season, yes he's been injured but still, we just gave up our best LW and our best offensive/LW prospect....for Whitney...**** **** **** **** **** you Murray.

Sounds like Scottie maybe on the way out... ANA receiving 'protection' from losing Scottie or Pronger.

Terrible....WTF kind of terrible. Whitney has been GOD aweful this season, yes he's been injured but still, we just gave up our best LW and our best offensive/LW prospect....for Whitney...**** **** **** **** **** you Murray.

It's not that bad. Whitney is big (6-4, 220) and really very good offensively. Carlyle can teach him a lot.

You all just got your blue chip stud on the blue line

I think this move is a good indicator that Murray is going to trade Pronger or Niedermayer so let the revolution begin! He is not fine with this team making the playoffs and getting killed in the first round. We need to sell, sell, sell!

As for Kunitz, we are going to miss him but he was getting less minutes on special teams. Tangradi is overated by some of you guys. He is nothing special to cry about.

Thus starts the rebuild...

$4.0 for four more years but I don't know much more about him than that if anyone has a decent summary?

It sucks to lose someone who works as hard as Kunitz though, how do people think our top two lines will look tonight?

Tanger sauce!!!!!!! Hopefully you do well in the land of the Pens.

Murray, I don't know about this one. I like Whitney, but...meh
At least he is doing something.

It's not that bad. Whitney is big (6-4, 220) and really very good offensively. Carlyle can teach him a lot.

Have you seen him play? He's soft as butter, and not cold butter either. Pens fans don't use the phrase, "hit him with your purse!" For nothing.

If Whitney becomes what he was projected to be, this will be a great deal for Anaheim, however if he plays like he has been lately, we got bent over.

However, if Murray now ships out one of Pronger or Niedermayer and gets a significant return, IE a top forward prospect and a top 6 winger, I will be happy.

:cry: and so it starts...bye Kunie

Just wanna see what ducks fans think but does this now mean either Pronger or Scotty are gone?

Terrible....WTF kind of terrible. Whitney has been GOD aweful this season, yes he's been injured but still, we just gave up our best LW and our best offensive/LW prospect....for Whitney...**** **** **** **** **** you Murray.

Whitney is younger and has a better contract (top 4 offensive d-man are hard to find as cheap as Ryan is) . Whitney is capable of putting 40-50 points per season from the back-end and that makes him more valuable than Kunitz.
Win for Anaheim

Interesting deal from both sides. I can see it benefiting both teams, especially because Whitney has a nice contract. Does this work cap-wise or do the Ducks have to move someone?

Have you seen him play? He's soft as butter, and not cold butter either. Pens fans don't use the phrase, "hit him with your purse!" For nothing.
He can put up huge point totals. If CP or SN are dealt (which i think likely) we are sorely needing offense from the backend.

A d-man doesn't put up 60 points by being lucky.

I'm not thrilled about this but it's not terrible by any means. It's buying low.

Brutal, simply brutal.

I can live with Ducks trading Kunitz (let's face it, without Getzlaf/Perry/McDonald/Selanne he's a 40p player at best) but trading our best prospect away is just stupid.

Interesting deal from both sides. I can see it benefiting both teams, especially because Whitney has a nice contract. Does this work cap-wise or do the Ducks have to move someone?

It's fine cap wise as Kunitz had a hit of 3.725 and we have a little wiggle room saved up through the season. It does look to be an indicator that Pronger or Nieds is on the move though

Ouch. Losing both of those guys hurts. Booo. You give to get, I guess. Kunitz will do well in Pittsburgh, though.

As for Whitney, we should probably wait and see. Pittsburgh, along with Philly and Rangers fans are as bad as Canadians in terms of either loving or hating players with nothing in between. I imagine Whitney is replacing Niedermayer, in which case however bad he is defensively, it won't be that much of a downgrade.

I thought you guys might appreciate a Pittsburgh fan's perspective on Whitney.

-- He has an excellent, maybe even elite breakout pass from his own zone. He can really spring a transition game hitting forwards making diagonal runs up ice. Surprisingly, he doesn't *join* the rush much for someone who's known as an "offensive defenseman", and he's not all that great in that role when he does. His offense is more about his vision and passing.

-- I think talk of him helping the power play is a little over-blown. He's a competent component when he works on the point with a genuine PP QB (Gonchar, in our case), but he's never been the straw that stirs the drink. He's not good at carrying the puck in the zone cleanly, or being the guy that the play runs through. He was great at cutting down from the left point, taking cross ice feeds from Crosby, and putting them home, but that's about it. There's still room for development here though.

-- He's a big guy, but not physical at all. He rarely initiates contact and doesn't often take a hit to make a play. This is kind of disappointing, but defensively speaking it would not be a deal-breaker, if not for the fact that . . . .

-- His defensive awareness is pitiful. Embarrassing. Cringe-worthy. He's not a bad skater for a guy his size, but he loses his man in the defensive zone a lot. He's not very good positionally. Maybe you guys have the veteran blue-liners and coaching staff to beat this out of him and really teach him how to play defense (I suppose if anyone can, it's Carlyle), but Pittsburgh never did.

-- Good locker room guy, as far as anyone knows.

Good luck with him. IMO he could still develop into a solid 50-60 point defenseman who gives you adequate positional defense (if someone teaches him how). If so, you guys will have gotten an ok deal I think. But his development, especially on the defensive side, really stagnated badly in Pittsburgh, for whatever reason.

I think we have to wait some more days until one of our two defenders will be traded.Withney is a good offensive defender who will help the powerplay.And he is signed for more years,so he is an important piece for the next years.
Losing Kunitz and Tangradi hurts,but Kunitz was not a 1st-LW,so he can be reülaced.Tangradi was a good prospect,but I think we will get a great prospect by trading Pronger or Niedermayer.

He can put up huge point totals. If CP or SN are dealt (which i think likely) we are sorely needing offense from the backend.

A d-man doesn't put up 60 points by being lucky.

I'm not thrilled about this but it's not terrible by any means. It's buying low.

Yeah, I'm underrating him a little. I mean, it will be nice to have an elite breakout pass hitting Getzlaf/Perry/Ryan for 4 more years, not to mention being the same age and developing with them. We'll see if Whitney can regain his form. I'm just bias because I'm a big fan of both Kunitz and Tangradi.

Can't say i am a fan of this trade. Ryan Whitney is needed for future D but i don't feel the cost was worth it.I felt that Kunitz could be a leader in the future for us and letting go a prospect is to much.

Yeah, I think Carlyle if anyone, can help out with the defense and the physicality. In these kind of situations (Whitney types) I like having Carlyle back there, but after that...

...His defensive awareness is pitiful. Embarrassing. Cringe-worthy...

Trust me, he's much better defensively than all but 2 of our d at this point. He's a much better player than all but 2.


------------------

Overall, I haven't been that happy with Kunitz since his new contract. He seemed to coast last year.

Whitney (apart from his apparent terrible defense {that i haven't noticed}) can shoot when he gets the puck. He won't be a total wussie with it, and he won't miss the net all the time. I can appreciate that.


Ultimately, this trade means that Hedican plays less. Any time that happens the Ducks win the trade.

Pens fan here giving you some insight on Whitney.

I am one of the few that will regret Whitney leaving. Two seasons ago, as a 23 year old, he had 59 points playing out of his natural right side position. He was behind Gonchar here and limited as to what situations he played in. The Pens have screwed up his development, as they tend to do with all their dmen.

He has had a foot deformity for years that limited what he could do, at least skating wise. This was corrected this past off season and was the reason he was out most of this year. He mostly played last season on one foot and still put up 40 points and looking very solid in the playoffs. He also has, if not the best, certainly one of the best breakout passes in the league.

Now for the bad. He is a big bodied dman that has never used his size to his advantage. It may be that his foot problem simply didn't allow this, but it really has never been a big part of his game.

Even if he never develops the physical aspect of his game, he will consistantly put up 50+ points every year. He should be well worth the 4mm cap hit for the next few years, and in a capped league that's really the most important aspect of a player.

Brutal, simply brutal.

I can live with Ducks trading Kunitz (let's face it, without Getzlaf/Perry/McDonald/Selanne he's a 40p player at best) but trading our best prospect away is just stupid.

I feel the same way, I hoped it was any of our prospects other than Tangradi.

You guys are going to HATE Whitney. He can pass the puck up ice as good as anybody in the league, but he is a one trick pony. He is so weak defensively you are going to be sick to your stomachs. He doesn't hit, ever. He is out of position, a lot.

During the Cup run the Pens paired him up with Letang as the bottom pairing and put good checking lines out in front of them. They would not willingly match them up against other teams scoring lines ever. They pretty much hid Whitney's liabilities in the playoffs.

He is a great guy though, I liked his personality and sense of humor. But this city does not like big players who play small, and neither do I.

Murray already said he wanted players around the future core of this team. I am assuming he wants players between the age of 20-26.

Whitney (apart from his apparent terrible defense {that i haven't noticed}) can shoot when he gets the puck. He won't be a total wussie with it, and he won't miss the net all the time. I can appreciate that.


Part of Whits problem is that he doesn't shoot enough. He has a good enough shot, but he just doesn't use it enough. Especially on the PP.

Trust me, he's much better defensively than all but 2 of our d at this point. He's a much better player than all but 2.


------------------

Overall, I haven't been that happy with Kunitz since his new contract. He seemed to coast last year.

Whitney (apart from his apparent terrible defense {that i haven't noticed}) can shoot when he gets the puck. He won't be a total wussie with it, and he won't miss the net all the time. I can appreciate that.


Ultimately, this trade means that Hedican plays less. Any time that happens the Ducks win the trade.

Kunitz isn't worth 3.7, but he is a solid player.

Pens fan here,

I think the change of scenery will do Whitney a lot of good, and with his $4M contract in between Gonchar, the budding Letang, and Gologoski being NHL-ready, he's the odd man out.

That said, he has played LOUSY so far this season. But he's definitely got it in him to be a perennial scoring leader among defensemen.

Can anyone give me a good report on Kunitz? Haven't really watched him since the SCF a few years back.

Man lame, I was really looking forward to Tangradi. Ugh what the ****.

We trade off two gritty pieces for a softie ... hate it. The team finally had an identity after 10 years in the wilderness, but it looks like Murray has a different vision.

I don't think this trade is brutal for the Ducks tbh, but I like Tangradi and Kunitz is a very solid, hard working winger. However, I think it's cheaper for the Ducks to have gotten Whitney than it would cost for possibly a Kaberle. I believe the two are somewhat comparable, but Whitney has plenty more upside and a great contract for a 50pt big Dman. I wouldn't be mourning this deal if I was a Ducks fan

We trade off two gritty pieces for a softie ... hate it. The team finally had an identity after 10 years in the wilderness, but it looks like Murray has a different vision.

It doesn't matter. With Anaheim's reputation with the paid officials, Ryan Whitney will be acknowledged as a headhunter playing on a dirty team.

Alright, well who is betting which Big Dman is gone? Nieds or Pronger?

Alright, well who is betting which Big Dman is gone? Nieds or Pronger?

I see both going. I would like to keep Pronger but it isn't look like that is going to happen.

Whitney's defensive softness means he'll always have to be paired with a hard hitting responsible guy like Pronger.

KUNITZ has somehow always reminded me of MIKE KNUBLE. Is that a fair comparison? DO they bring similar things to the tabel (xcluding that KNUBLE is much older and makes about 1 mil/yr less)

I think the main similarity is that KNUBLE is not and has never been the straw that stirs the drink, but he has always been a great complemetary piece to a good line. In Boston he played with Thornton and Glen Murray; now he's with Richards and Gagne.. before he played the wing with Forsberg.

I see KUNITZ the same way.

Whitney's defensive softness means he'll always have to be paired with a hard hitting responsible guy like Pronger.

KUNITZ has somehow always reminded me of MIKE KNUBLE. Is that a fair comparison? DO they bring similar things to the tabel (xcluding that KNUBLE is much older and makes about 1 mil/yr less)

Knuble in his prime was a bit more offensively talented, but Kunitz has better speed. I'll miss him but he wasnt as tenacious this year as he was the past two. He should be very good riding shotgun with a player like Crosby or Malkin.

...Can anyone give me a good report on Kunitz? Haven't really watched him since the SCF a few years back.

He's a fast player who can shoot really well sometimes. He usually likes to hit, and takes hit's to make plays.


But most importantly, Kunitz will stand up for Crosby. That is why you guys made this trade. Someone does something dirty, Kunitz will step right in there. He's a good team guy.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_N3Qv5IXBXI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_N3Qv5IXBXI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This is a good deal IMO. Whitney sure hasn't been very good this season, but that should do with his injury and the Pens poor play. He has shown he can do much better the past few years and he's born 1983.

I'll miss Kunitz though, best of luck to him.

I'm an outsider but I thought this is a good trade for the Ducks. You guys are going to lose Niedermeyer and Pronger over the next 2 seasons regardless if they are traded or not. And it looks like one of them will probably be traded by the deadline I would guess. So you get a young replacement there and you've got a coach who was a defenseman that will probably help him develop into a better player. You give up kunitz who I don't really think was worth the money he gets paid. From the games I've watched this season, he has been pretty invisible. I used to hate him a season or two ago because he seemed to always score agains the Kings and was always right in the middle of everything. I could be wrong but I haven't noticed that as much this season.

I don't know about the prospect you gave up but I guess you have to give to get. Just wait until Pronger or Niedermeyer is traded and you guys are going to have rebuilt almost over night.

Glad to see Kunitz gone though because I can't stand his face!

Yeah, looking at it more objectively Im not as upset. Tangradi may be overrated a little and I think this is a good buy low move by Murray. If Whitney can get back to what he was just a year and change ago we'll have another dangerous dman. That, and anything would have been an upgrade over some of the guys we are sending out right now anyways.

The big question is who takes Kunitz's spot in the top 6? Morrison? Ryan Carter? Minor leaguer? Or possibly another deal that includes a forward?

Tangradi is a little overrated. He's tearing up the OHL as an over-ager and has good size but in training camp he didn't impress me too much. He looked pretty good but nothing to sneeze at. I'd say he was on par with Belesky and I don't see him as having a very high ceiling either. But you have to give up something to get something. Losing Kunitz hurts because he's been one of our most consistent forwards for the last four years. No one skates as hard on each shift as Kunie. He's going to score a ton of goals playing with Crosby, no doubt.

But Whitney is exactly what we need. We still have Niedermayer and Pronger and he'll be paired with one of them so his defensive awareness doesn't bother me too much. I love hearing that he has such a great outlet pass because that is what our breakout lacks so badly. We've needed someone like Whitney since Frankie went down and he came not a moment too soon.

Yeah, looking at it more objectively Im not as upset. Tangradi may be overrated a little and I think this is a good buy low move by Murray. If Whitney can get back to what he was just a year and change ago we'll have another dangerous dman. That, and anything would have been an upgrade over some of the guys we are sending out right now anyways.

The big question is who takes Kunitz's spot in the top 6? Morrison? Ryan Carter? Minor leaguer? Or possibly another deal that includes a forward?

I'm hoping tangradi is overrated but I really liked him... Anyway I'm hoping we make another trade for a top 6 winger... We have no in house options for a top 6 winger so I'm guessing a trade.

If nothing else this trade shows Murray actually has some balls and isnt afraid to do something. I have to say Im relieved to see that.

Hmmm this trade makes me want to reconsider firing Carlyle. I actually think Whitney will do very well here. He's had a rough season coming off of surgery, but he has a ton of potential. Our defense just got younger and more talented.

Giving up Kunitz and Tangradi is rough though. Crosby's line just got a hell of a lot tougher, and Tangradi is a legit power forward prospect. Seriously though, who plays left wing for us now though? Our LW depth sucks.

I'm pretty excited about Whitney though, I think with Carlyle's mentoring, 4yrs 4mil will turn out to be a pretty good deal with this guy and he's still pretty young.

This should be a short rebuilding process IMO... Imagine if we can land some young forwards for Pronger and Niedermayer and sign Bouwmeester and Beauchemin this summer.

Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry
Trade - Ebbett - Selänne

Bouwmeester - Beauchemin
Whitney - Montador

looks like we can be in the playoffs next year already.

Back to Marchant and Morrison for you, Teemu. Unless Murray comes up with a LW replacement.

The big question is who takes Kunitz's spot in the top 6? Morrison? Ryan Carter? Minor leaguer? Or possibly another deal that includes a forward?

I am hoping Ryan Carter. The guy deserves to play.

Whitney strikes me as exactly the sort of guy that would thrive off a change of scenery. Carlyle may be able to provide the sort of structure around him to allow him to play much better defensively than he has. He's extremely talented, and as far as defensemen go, is still a couple of years from entering his prime.

Kunitz I hate to see go, but I had a gut feeling that he was the most expendable forward piece that had some value. Realistically, one-for-one I'd rather have a top-4 d-man like Whitney over a top-six forward like Kunitz. He's going to do very well in Pittsburgh, and I would suspect his point totals are going to take a jump.

Tangradi is tough to lose, I suppose, but I don't think he was a "sure thing" like many thought. We don't have a wealth of forwards in the pipeline, so its a bit of a stinger, but the fact is that we have ZERO legit, proven NHL d-men past Pronger next season, and that's a hole that concerns me more.

Overall, not horrified by the deal. I like Whitney, and I think he'll do well here.

Kings fan here...The Ducks made out in this one...It gives you flexbility and a young D locked up long term....Kunitz was on waivers 4 years ago and Tangradi is just a prospect. You can now move Pronger or wait for Nied's to decide what to do and trade Pronger at the draft if Scott stays.

Whitney was #4 overall. Enough said. He has Stanley Cup experience, is young, and can move the puck and quarter back the power play.

never really thought kunitz was worth what we were paying him. he works hard, but i still notice him less than a lot of players who are under him on the depth chart. carter and ebbett being two.

I love this deal. I wonder what this means for the top line though? Do they move Ryan up with Getz and Perry? I wouldn't mind seeing a Carter - Ebbett - Selanne 2nd line.

Woohoo! I love the deadline.

I think we gave up two good assets, but we really didn't have an offensive defenseman in the pipeline. He's young and on a reasonable contract.

I like the move, but we'll miss Kunitz a lot. He's a jack of all trades.

Whitney is very good at offense and very bad on deffense. Its that simple. Dont expect him to use his 6-4 frame at all and he can't get out of his own zone.

On the other hand he has a very good shot both wrister and slapper. A good passer and a great PP quarterback. As a Pens fan I'm going to miss him thats for sure but the Pens are so weak at wing its sad.

Ryan has good chemistry with Ebbett, but I think he naturally compliments Getzlaf and Perry much more.

Man lame, I was really looking forward to Tangradi. Ugh what the ****.

Yeah, I hate that we couldn't keep him.

I was really excited from the season he was having for Belleville, and what people were saying about his game.

Hopefully everything works out in the end.

Good Luck w/ the Pens, Kunie!

I actually like this trade and the balls it took to make it. Whitney could become a great defender and to get young defenders, you usually have to pay a very high premium.

Don't get me wrong though, at the moment this leaves a big hole in your top 6.

Pens fan here,

I think the change of scenery will do Whitney a lot of good, and with his $4M contract in between Gonchar, the budding Letang, and Gologoski being NHL-ready, he's the odd man out.

That said, he has played LOUSY so far this season. But he's definitely got it in him to be a perennial scoring leader among defensemen.

Can anyone give me a good report on Kunitz? Haven't really watched him since the SCF a few years back.

kunitz has speed and pretty much hits anything that moves.

his downside is that he can't finish anything to save his life

As a Pens fan and not a huge fan of Ryan Whitney, here's my take:

I think how much this deal makes sense for you guys depends on what your GM does next. Ryan Whitney has a LOT of innate hockey talent. He has great vision and passing ability during transition, and he also has a decent shot on the PP. He is not the best at holding the puck in the zone on the PP. For his size and ability there's no cause for this beyond a mental lapse.

He is also prone to giving different levels of effort from night to night. He showed what he can do in certain playoff games last year, which makes it all the more frustrating as a fan when he doesn't play with the same intensity the rest of the year. I don't buy the foot excuse, honestly. He skates the same now as he did when he was a rookie and as he did when his foot was hurting him.

His biggest problem, however, is that he shirks contact at every possible turn, and it causes problems defensively. He is beyond useless around the net, and it's often his own mistakes in coverage up high that allow teams to get down that far in the first place. Despite him being a big, mobile defender, he backs off puck carriers way too often and too far, leaving them room to get the puck in deep or start a give-and-go type situation. He needs to learn when to back off and when to stand guys up at the blue line; someone will have to teach him.

If your coaching staff and one of your veteran D can teach him how to position himself better in his own zone, and can help him to start using his big frame to disrupt the offensive play of the other team earlier, he could certainly be your best D for years to come. However this is something our coaches were simply unable to do at either the AHL or NHL level. I hope you have better luck.

For now I'd say this deal favors Pittsburgh, based on what people are saying about the Eric T. and the fact that Kunitz is a very solid LW, who is likely to excel in the softer EC.

Any word on whether or not Whitney will be in the line up tonight aganst Boston?

Kunitz is almost 30, hasn't scored more than 25 goals and makes 3 million. He was on waivers a few years back.

Whiney is a 4th overral pick, can move the puck, log big minutes and is locked up long term. Ducks get the better end of this deal.

Kunitz is almost 30, hasn't scored more than 25 goals and makes 3 million. He was on waivers a few years back.

Whiney is a 4th overral pick, can move the puck, log big minutes and is locked up long term. Ducks get the better end of this deal.

unless Tangradi keeps up his scoring at the AHL and NHL level, then we got hosed.

Any word on whether or not Whitney will be in the line up tonight aganst Boston?

He went to Boston yesterday (was a healthy scratch for Pitt) so I think its pretty likely he will play.

I actually like this trade and the balls it took to make it. Whitney could become a great defender and to get young defenders, you usually have to pay a very high premium.

Don't get me wrong though, at the moment this leaves a big hole in your top 6.

I agree. The bottom line to me is that we dealt from a relative strength (top six forwards) to relieve a bonifide, undeniable weakness (NHL-quality blueliners signed to reasonable contracts past this season). Add in that I don't think Whitney's come close to his max potential, and that's a bit of icing on the cake. Not to mention, d-men Whitney's caliber even now are a lot tougher to come by, and a lot more expensive to secure than a forward of Kunitz' quality.

I'd probably deal Kunitz for Whitney right now even if he doesn't improve. I don't mind trading potential in Tangradi for the improvement potential in Whitney, too much.

Have you seen him play? He's soft as butter, and not cold butter either. Pens fans don't use the phrase, "hit him with your purse!" For nothing.


Hilarious.

Is this another chapter of Penner? Big size that never hits?

Hilarious.

Is this another chapter of Penner? Big size that never hits?

He makes Dustin Penner look like Ogie Oglethorpe. Seriously. He does not like getting hit or putting hits down on other players. Strange...

...but hopefully he learns a few things from your staff and Pronger / Scotty N. He's got big potential but he's pretty close to that "not going ot change" stage, so they'd better get him in therapy quick! :)

guys, Whitney is a damn good Defenceman... he's been injured up until 1 month ago and is still getting up to game speed. You will be happy with him.

He makes Dustin Penner look like Ogie Oglethorpe. Seriously. He does not like getting hit or putting hits down on other players. Strange...

...but hopefully he learns a few things from your staff and Pronger / Scotty N. He's got big potential but he's pretty close to that "not going ot change" stage, so they'd better get him in therapy quick! :)

Whitney doesnt hit at all. . but his 60 point season a year ago is something. .as a pittsburgh fan, i don't get exposed to the Ducks very much. .what exactly do Kunits and Tangradi bring to the table?:help:

You guys excited about Whitney being a good "defender" are out of your friggin minds.

He will HAVE to be paired up with someone that isn't even sure what goes on outside of his own zone in order for him not be a -121 over the course of an 82 game season.

Also, he is not a PP quarterback, he's the second point guy, but he does have a pretty good talent for shooting the puck.

A guy like Kunitz can be replaced (allbeit probably by someone slower) through other means, and he'll do well with Malkin.

Trade is probably pretty even except that no one knows how Tang's is going to pan out...if he comes out ripping, Ducks got completely hosed, if he doesn't, trade is probably still a toss up.

However, the west is NOT the east, and you better hope Whitney gets a little streak of nasty going. That passive **** isn't gonna play too well in Western Canada.

Kunitz is a 100% intensity player who plays like he is 6 inches taller than he really is. He throws the body, drops the gloves, goes to the net and is fast enough to keep up with Crosby.

He doesn't create a ton of scoring chances, on his own he's a 40pt player, with Crosby centering him I could see him at about 60pt pace, but he does create space and will drop the gloves if someone even looks at Crosby the wrong way.

So the Ducks acquire another defender who doesn't know how to defend? Well, at least he was drafted high, maybe he'll reach his supposed potential one day. Ducks top six looks thin now :help:

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2009/02/26/kunitz-shocked-at-deal-by-ducks/7477/

We got hosed. Tangradi is going to be something special and Kunitz is our hardest working foward and he fits in perfectly with Getzlaf and Perry. Watch Kunitz score 30-40 goals next year on Crosby/Malkins wing.

You guys excited about Whitney being a good "defender" are out of your friggin minds.

He will HAVE to be paired up with someone that isn't even sure what goes on outside of his own zone in order for him not be a -121 over the course of an 82 game season.

Also, he is not a PP quarterback, he's the second point guy, but he does have a pretty good talent for shooting the puck.

A guy like Kunitz can be replaced (allbeit probably by someone slower) through other means, and he'll do well with Malkin.

Trade is probably pretty even except that no one knows how Tang's is going to pan out...if he comes out ripping, Ducks got completely hosed, if he doesn't, trade is probably still a toss up.

However, the west is NOT the east, and you better hope Whitney gets a little streak of nasty going. That passive **** isn't gonna play too well in Western Canada.

The thing about Whitney is where he is being traded to. I'm a pretty big critic of Carlyle, but one thing I'll never criticize is how he turns AHL quality defenders into servicable NHL D-men. As of right now the Ducks have 3 Norris winners, if any team can turn Whitney's defensive game around it's this one.

I always thought Carter could easily replace Kunitz although not as good a player yet he basically does the same things and comes from a similar hockey path. Tangradi looks like he has a future but again its not a guarantee. I like the trade Whitney may be soft so i hope Brookbank keeps playing we need his grit back there and he has looked pretty good. This almost shows the team could even be buyer and not sellers imo. Mikkelson,Festerling or Salcido for a gritty forward now?

The thing about Whitney is where he is being traded to. I'm a pretty big critic of Carlyle, but one thing I'll never criticize is how he turns AHL quality defenders into servicable NHL D-men. As of right now the Ducks have 3 Norris winners, if any team can turn Whitney's defensive game around it's this one.

I don't totally disagree, but that begs some questions;

-Who to date has he turned into anything MORE than a serviceable defenseman? Whitney needs to be MORE than serviceable for this trade to be a success for Anaheim.
-Of those, which couldn't already at least play a little bit tough in their own end?
-Will Carlyle even be in Anaheim after April?

I don't totally disagree, but that begs some questions;

-Who to date has he turned into anything MORE than a serviceable defenseman? Whitney needs to be MORE than serviceable for this trade to be a success for Anaheim.
-Of those, which couldn't already at least play a little bit tough in their own end?
-Will Carlyle even be in Anaheim after April?

A good example is Francois Beauchemin.

I don't totally disagree, but that begs some questions;

-Who to date has he turned into anything MORE than a serviceable defenseman?
Francois Beauchemin comes to mind. Whitney is also easily the most talented young d-man he has had to work with.

Well I know I for one can't wait to see Morrison back up on the 2nd line tonight. The last 22 weeks he's just had to shake some cobwebs out. Time to see our star offseason acquisition shine!

I'd give you Beauchemin, that's for sure.

Ultimately with Whitney though, we're talking about a guy who doesn't want to get physical. I'm not sure that can be coached.

Victory Rose, yes, he's not great in his own end, but that's a ridiculous sentiment about his defense. You act like he's the worst defender in his own end out there. He's not that horrific.

I think Perry and Getzlaf can create with anyone on their wing. Putting Ryan there seems a bit of a waste, especially since the Ryan-Ebbett-Selanne line is a legit 2nd line finally.

Give Carter a shot there, or Marchant, since he's the closest thing to Kunitz we have left on the roster.

Francois Beauchemin comes to mind. Whitney is alse easily the most talented young d-man he has had to work with.

this is true. In terms of raw young talent, Carlyle hasn't been given anyone that approaches Whitney. He's mainly been given bubble players and turned them into legit NHL d-men. Carlyle is BIG on his players being defensively responsible, especially his defensmen. I have a feeling Whitney's defensive game is going to grow by leaps and bounds in Anaheim.

I just noticed Whitney averages about a fighting major a year :laugh:

Ultimately with Whitney though, we're talking about a guy who doesn't want to get physical. I'm not sure that can be coached.
Well, if he can provide offense and improves to adequate defensively, we'll suffer the non-physicality. Not everyone has to bee tough, even on the Ducks :)

This is a scary trade IMO. It could turn out amazing or it could turn out to be god awful, I don't think there's much of an in between, which is what makes it so scary.

Whitney sounds like someone we desperately need right now. However, losing Kunitz is a REALLY bad thing for the Ducks. Yes he's overpaid, but no by much. However, Kunitz brought heart to this team. That's something the Ducks have lacked most of the year as well.

If Whitney is one of Pronger or Niedermayer's replacement next year, I hate it. If he's going to be like the 3rd best defensemen next year then it's awesome. I think it's pretty set in stone that Beauchemin is gone for sure though. This will be interesting though. The Ducks have been missing a top 4 defensemen since Beauchemin went down. Getting one could be huge for the Ducks. A lot of people think this means Pronger or Niedermayer are on their way out, but if the Ducks win tonight, I wouldn't be surprised to see them stay put at the deadline. Scoring goals hasn't been the problem, it's keep them out that has been.

If you guys didn't have on your team that element needed to whip on Wade Redden, you do now.

But seriously, you won't be disappointed with Whitney. Pens fans were disappointed because what he brought wasn't a need, it was already a strength.

Whitney has elite vision and passing ability, with average skating and below average slap shot. He gets visibly shaken by aggressive forecheckers and is incompetent around his own net, but he'll make great plays in the transition game and in the offensive zone. He's very soft for his size, and has yet to make up for that with good decision making while he's being hit. He'll make the occasional offensive-zone gaff, but his offensive talent can't be denied.

Victory Rose, yes, he's not great in his own end, but that's a ridiculous sentiment about his defense. You act like he's the worst defender in his own end out there. He's not that horrific.

Obviously it was hyperbole, but Whitney is terribad defensively.

That's indisputable.

Forgot to mention this earlier:

Unfortunately my fellow ducks fans I think it will be Morrison in the top 6 again, not Carter.

Morrison-Getzlaf-Perry :shakehead:shakehead
Ryan-Ebbett-Selanne
blah
blah

Quick reaction during my lunch break: Ugh. **** no. I don't care about losing Kunitz and Tangradi, even though they hurt. I hate Whitney, have hated him for about 3 years now. If we wanted offense without defense, play Salcido. I just don't like guys with questionable effort, toughness, defense, or hockey sense.

We run around in our own end and in front of the net enough as is. Whitney's going to make it worse.

To me Whitney's contract is about as bad as Penner's.

Whitney wont be playing tonight per the OCR, which means the same crappy dmen will be playing as well as no Kunitz. Hurray.

FOR ****S SAKE MURRAY! Why the hell did you trade our best prospect?? Sheesh!

Brutal, BRUTAL trade for Ducks.

Burke please come back!

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=599019

We warned you Ducks fans!

Hawks fans know how horrible Murray is!

May the hockey gods have mercy on your Ducks, for Bob Murray will not!!!!!!

Whitney wont be playing tonight per the OCR, which means the same crappy dmen will be playing as well as no Kunitz. Hurray.

meh id rather have us start raising our draft position right now anyway. We aren't making it out of the first round this year even if we make it to the playoffs.

You all have it wrong. Murray is clearly cornering the market on players named "Ryan."

Probably gonna pick up Ryan Hollweg and Ryan Parent next.

Hey, Pens fan here in Peace.

Came over our radio that Whitney may be getting surgery after the season on his other foot, the one that left him out for our lineup for the majority of our season.

Other than that, I think you guys have a great chance at winning in this deal. I hope this Tangradi kid turns out the way you believe he will.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=599019

We warned you Ducks fans!

Hawks fans know how horrible Murray is!

May the hockey gods have mercy on your Ducks, for Bob Murray will not!!!!!!

you must really think you're funny if you gotta post that in two threads

make sure you underline and bold it too so nobody misses out on how funny that is! oh, you already did! great job.

this wasn't even a bad trade anyways. it's almost like you're just looking for any excuse to bash bob murray. kunitz isn't even anything special. he's not worth the money for one.

tangradi could be really good, but it's hard to tell how unconventional players transfer from the OHL. poor skating is notoriously easy to get away with in the OHL. i think he'll probably be pretty good, but this hardly looks like a bad trade for the ducks. this could go either way, but i think history and general probability is on the ducks' side for this one.

Terrible....WTF kind of terrible. Whitney has been GOD aweful this season, yes he's been injured but still, we just gave up our best LW and our best offensive/LW prospect....for Whitney...**** **** **** **** **** you Murray.

your an idiot

your an idiot

Every couple of months this happens and I chuckle at the irony every time.

Just a typo, I know, but still...

something just hasn't been clicking well with whitney this year (you could say that for the pens in general for that matter). He has a lot of potential, a bit soft for sure, and needs some work on D. hopefully he can turn his game around for you guys.

What's the deal with Tangradi? I haven't really followed him or know much about him. Are the Pens trying to replace Malone with him? Is that the type of player he is?

What's the deal with Tangradi? I haven't really followed him or know much about him. Are the Pens trying to replace Malone with him? Is that the type of player he is?

Hes a big power forward that is lighting up the OHL with some sweet hands. I personally like the trade. We need help on defense and Kunitz is definatly replaceable.

I'll echo what other Pens fans have said already about Whitney. Good, fluid skater (if his foot is healthy), great passer, average shot, horrible at everything defense. Lots of brain cramps and bad mistakes at the worst possible times. You will also never see a softer player in the NHL. It boggles the mind how someone that big can play so small.

He's not just soft for his size, he seems outright scared of taking a hit let alone dish one out. We have been waiting for him to grow a pair for years but it never happened in Pittsburgh. He's like a softer Bryan Berard right now. I hope he can somehow get going in Anaheim because he seems like a genuinely nice and funny person. For everything bad that's said about him, at least he is supposed to be a good locker room guy. Good luck, Whits!

Brutal, simply brutal.

I can live with Ducks trading Kunitz (let's face it, without Getzlaf/Perry/McDonald/Selanne he's a 40p player at best) but trading our best prospect away is just stupid.


I think some of you guys seriously underrate Whitney's offensive capabilities. He has been hurt this year, but he's only 26 and a number of 50+ point seasons could be in his future. That said, I share Pepper's sentiments about Tangradi. This guy could be a Power Forward stud in the NHL in a couple of years.

Give Whitney a break. He has been known as a great offensive defenseman and as a solid defensive defenseman since the lockout. This year has been an dissapointment. But I'm confident hel'll pick up his defensive game next season if he can avoid an injury in the summer/autumn.

I will miss Kunitz, but a 50+ point producer can be brought here through free agency or with a trade from Pronger/Niedermayer, maybe someone that is younger and cheaper as well. Tangradi I don't expect to be anything more than a second line center.

Hopefully Whitney doesn't take nearly as much stupid stickwork penalties as Kunie did.

My God...

I didn't like Kunitz when he first started and then he kind of grew on me and became a player that I liked. I like that we got Ryan Whitney, but the cost was too much.

Give Whitney a break. He has been known as a great offensive defenseman and as a solid defensive defenseman since the lockout. This year has been an dissapointment. But I'm confident hel'll pick up his defensive game next season if he can avoid an injury in the summer/autumn.


--Penguins fan--

I don't think you'll hear anyone from Pittsburgh say he is a solid defensive defenseman.

I think the physicality part is something that is being blown out of proportion by Penguins fans though. He is a soft big man, but he shows signs of a desire to be more physical. For instance, the past couple games (before he was scratched and traded) he developed a more aggressive edge to his game. He will never be a player that will make a game-changing hit, but he tries to use his body to seperate the player from the puck. Anyways, physical play isn't why your Ducks traded for him.

His offensive play is very, very good. He moves the puck up the ice very well and often makes passes from behind his blue line to spur a player on a breakaway or odd man rush. You will rarely find yourself getting angry at Whitney for a play he makes offensively. On the power play, his best move is to sneak behind the opposition on the weak side and get a cross-ice pass to bury. His ability to find the corner of the nets on wrist shots reminds me of a top, "sniper" forward.

The biggest drawback with Whitney though is his defense and mental decisions that lead to odd man rushes. Often his pinching can lead to turnovers or him getting stuck behind. His skating makes up for it, but more than lately in the last couple games, opposing teams had 2-1's because Whitney either (a) got stuck pinching, or (b) fell down. He also has a problem keeping pucks in at the blue line (either on power plays or extended shifts in the opponents zone). He often waves his stick at the puck instead of putting his body in front to stop it.

Overall, he has unbelievable offensive potential and when healthy will put up 50-60 points a season. Just don't expect him to be anything close to "solid" in the defensive zone.

--Penguins fan--

I don't think you'll hear anyone from Pittsburgh say he is a solid defensive defenseman.

I think the physicality part is something that is being blown out of proportion by Penguins fans though. He is a soft big man, but he shows signs of a desire to be more physical. For instance, the past couple games (before he was scratched and traded) he developed a more aggressive edge to his game. He will never be a player that will make a game-changing hit, but he tries to use his body to seperate the player from the puck. Anyways, physical play isn't why your Ducks traded for him.

His offensive play is very, very good. He moves the puck up the ice very well and often makes passes from behind his blue line to spur a player on a breakaway or odd man rush. You will rarely find yourself getting angry at Whitney for a play he makes offensively. On the power play, his best move is to sneak behind the opposition on the weak side and get a cross-ice pass to bury. His ability to find the corner of the nets on wrist shots reminds me of a top, "sniper" forward.

The biggest drawback with Whitney though is his defense and mental decisions that lead to odd man rushes. Often his pinching can lead to turnovers or him getting stuck behind. His skating makes up for it, but more than lately in the last couple games, opposing teams had 2-1's because Whitney either (a) got stuck pinching, or (b) fell down. He also has a problem keeping pucks in at the blue line (either on power plays or extended shifts in the opponents zone). He often waves his stick at the puck instead of putting his body in front to stop it.

Overall, he has unbelievable offensive potential and when healthy will put up 50-60 points a season. Just don't expect him to be anything close to "solid" in the defensive zone.

Also Pens Fan

that pretty much sums up whitney. there were times when he was a great asset to the pens, those days just haven't been recent. It's a bummer that he's gone because when he plays his game he's great. terrible defensively, hopefully someone in anaheim can fix that. if so you guys will have a top-notch d-man, hands down.

Smart move for Danny to get his Cinci mate on his new team.
Throw in Tangradi and you have made a great deal.

Best of luck to Kunitz, hopefully his name will be back on the cup sometime soon.

Whitney and RC are going to clash. Should be interesting ..

your an idiot

Your - Possesive, You're contraction of you are. Now being that we have already figured out that You're a genius, tell me why you think quite a few others and I are idiots.

Pens' fan here who also thinks that you all will love this trade. Foot surgery traditionally takes some time to come back from. You may not be especially thrilled with what you see the rest of this year but by early on next year you should appreciate the bargain you got by buying when he was at his lowest value and for understandable reasons. I never understood the complaints about defenseman who put up a ton of points but do not have that physical game. You grow some brains and pair them with a defensively responsible guy and enjoy the results on the scoreboard. Gonchar early on in his career with Washington was always paired with a defensively responsible guy and as an added bonus developed a pretty good defensive game as well of late. But he was fair from a liablilty back when he needed that defensive defenseman pairing. Do similar with Whitney and you will be golden and very happy with him.

Does he play tonight?

Your - Possesive, You're contraction of you are. Now being that we have already figured out that You're a genius, tell me why you think quite a few others and I are idiots.

WHY R U CAPITALIZIZING "YOU'RE" IN THE MIDDLE OF A SENTENCE!?

Does he play tonight?
nope

what about Ossi Vaananen from waivers?

another pens fan here...when you see a guy with his size and not play with a mean streak ...it tends to drive a lot of fans nuts.....its just not part of his game....all though in the play-offs he did step it up and was one of our better players....but with most pen fans its not what have you done in the past its what are you doing now.
coming off foot surgery and now a mom in the hospital his head isn't in the game at all...and hes had a brutal year. give him some time and i'm sure you will love the guy....if you can get over his failure to use his size to pound people.

what about Ossi Vaananen from waivers?

Big, cheap, decent, UFA. Do we need him?

Hey guys, Pens fan here.

You will love Whitney's ability to move the puck. He has great vision when leaving his own zone with the puck. He is also skilled at playing the PP.

Unfortunately, you will hate him for being a 6'4'' creampuff. He is soft as a teddy bear and is afraid of taking hits. He makes bone-headed decisions all the time because of this. It's a double-edged sword for this guy - and who knows how he is going to play since his foot surgery?

I hope it works out for you guys.

Kunitz was a player you'd hate to face. He'd hit anybody, anytime, for any reason. (Usually no reason.) :naughty:

Whitney is definitely a finesse guy, in comparison. So you get the feeling that 'Burke-type' guys are starting to make their exit from Anaheim. (For better or for worse.)

The most disturbing part of this trade is that the prospect pool in Anaheim is now paper-thin with scorers. At least there's still Perry and Getzlaf. They're not going anywhere. And rookie-of-the-year candidate Bobby Ryan should get more (deserved) icetime.

It'll be interesting to see what Murray does with Pronger and/or Niedermayer. There's the players and prospects back, if there are more trades.

WHY R U CAPITALIZIZING "YOU'RE" IN THE MIDDLE OF A SENTENCE!?


nope


Why are you using r and u for are and you?

Now that I have had some time to digest this trade, I'm definitely not as against it. I'm still not sold on it, as I'm not a huge Whitney fan, but at least it gives us a solid PP QB and elite breakout pass for the foreseeable future.

Kunitz was a player you'd hate to face. He'd hit anybody, anytime, for any reason. (Usually no reason.) :naughty:

Whitney is definitely a finesse guy, in comparison. So you get the feeling that 'Burke-type' guys are starting to make their exit from Anaheim. (For better or for worse.)

The most disturbing part of this trade is that the prospect pool in Anaheim is now paper-thin with scorers. At least there's still Perry and Getzlaf. They're not going anywhere. And rookie-of-the-year candidate Bobby Ryan should get more (deserved) icetime.

It'll be interesting to see what Murray does with Pronger and/or Niedermayer. There's the players and prospects back, if there are more trades.
Kunitz wasn't taking any of Ryan's ice time.

****. Did we have to give up Tangradi? #2 scorer in the OHL and plays the power forward mold. If Tangradi carries his game over to the NHL and plays close to his potential we got totally fleeced in this trade.

Unlike scoringlegend, I've thought about it and I now hate it more. I just hate Whitney that much. I think he's also an Eastern conference player. I'd have preferred a Kaberle or something, although he'd cost more in a trade. But it looks like I'm in the minority. Oh well.

Now I liked Macenauer and Beleskey, but Tangradi was our only real good shot at a top-6 LWer. But again, it's just a prospect so it's not a dealbreaker.

Although I do like that it looks like we're selling.

edit: here's another thought. Murray just said last game that he made a mistake with trying to change a player by asking Salcido to be more physical. What does this say about Whitney, who Pens fans have targeted as being the softest culprit with their butter-soft D-corps?

****. Did we have to give up Tangradi? #2 scorer in the OHL and plays the power forward mold. If Tangradi carries his game over to the NHL and plays close to his potential we got totally fleeced in this trade.
Yea, but if he turns out to be a third liner, and Whitney ends up out scoring Kunitz, the Pens look like damn fools.

I think Whitney will do very well with Carlyle as well as Prong/Neids if they stick around. This reminds me a lot of the Boyes/Wideman trade assuming Tangradi turns into a 2nd line player.

I just hate paying 3.7 million a year for a 60 pt player.

I just hate paying 3.7 million a year for a 60 pt player.

3.7 million per year is a bargain for a 60 pt player.

The Whitney for Kunitz part of the deal looks very lopsided in favor of Anaheim to me. Tancredi must be something very special. Giving up a top flite offensive D-man like Whitney who is still young, with upside potential, for an average 2nd line forward, seems very one-sided for the Ducks. Granted Whitney is still struggling a bit to recover from offseason surgery, but there is no doubt about this kid's proven ability at a position that is very scarce, especially with the very affordable contract he has. Unless Tancredi becomes a decent top 6 forward, I think the Ducks stole one here.

Pens fan coming in peace. :)

I admittedly don't know much about the Ducks' players or prospects, from all the accounts I've heard/read about this kid Tangradi it seems like he could pan out to be just the player the Pens are lacking. As far as Kunitz, he seems like he may pay an immediate dividend.

As a Penguins fan who has followed Whitney through his time at Boston University, I don't really know what your GM was thinking. He's been making the same mistakes, misreads, and turn overs since college and hasn't done anything to improve his play in the defensive zone. He has a boat-load of offensive upside and potential, but for every tape-to-tape breakout pass he has, there's at least 5 defensive gaffs to more than out weight it. Hopefully he has a chance to better showcase his skills in Pittsburgh (not to say he didn't have his chance, he was a top 4 guy here). Perhaps he just needed someone like Pronger or Nieds to show him the ropes as far as physical play and defensive stick work, respectively.

Best of luck, except against the Pens. :)

Pens fan coming in peace. :)

I admittedly don't know much about the Ducks' players or prospects, from all the accounts I've heard/read about this kid Tangradi it seems like he could pan out to be just the player the Pens are lacking. As far as Kunitz, he seems like he may pay an immediate dividend.

As a Penguins fan who has followed Whitney through his time at Boston University, I don't really know what your GM was thinking. He's been making the same mistakes, misreads, and turn overs since college and hasn't done anything to improve his play in the defensive zone. He has a boat-load of offensive upside and potential, but for every tape-to-tape breakout pass he has, there's at least 5 defensive gaffs to more than out weight it. Hopefully he has a chance to better showcase his skills in Pittsburgh (not to say he didn't have his chance, he was a top 4 guy here). Perhaps he just needed someone like Pronger or Nieds to show him the ropes as far as physical play and defensive stick work, respectively.

Best of luck, except against the Pens. :)

for sure. Gonchar was pretty much the only "mentor" Whitney had with the Pens and Gonch isn't as physical or defensive as pronger / neids

Actually, I think most of us Pens fans were hoping he could be like Gonchar. Gonchar's defensive game is very underrated, his play last year in his own end helped them put together that awesome stretch that ultimately led them to the finals last year. And though he doesn't hit everything in site, he can be physical when he needs to.

As far as mentoring goes, I think Gonchar is a great leader, but as far as mentoring Whitney- well not all that can do can teach.

For the time being he's got 3 Norris winners to mentor him though, so we'll see. Anaheim is probably the best situation Whitney could have.

This is an absolutely horrible move. There's really not much else to say. I would say blow the team up, but I already don't trust Murray to do that. If this is the beginning of a rebuild then why trade away our top prospect especially when we have ZERO quality forward prospects. This move just handicaps us for the next four years. Whitney is just AWFUL. After watching a few more games of him we will all be gauging our eyes out.

So Anaheim just got weaker and softer and gave up youth to do so...a very different direction.

Losing a young prospect like Tangradi hurts but Murray will get prospects back soon with trade(s), then this trade looks better.

Whitney has huge potential and maybe he needed a change of scenery plus the contract ain´t bad.

It´s pretty even trade atm.

From watching Tangradi in training camp, here is my take. Remember when the Ducks traded Ladislav Smid in the Pronger trade. Everyone talked about how much potential he had and how he will make Brian Burke look bad by including him in the Pronger trade. I see many similarities. Smid is now a marginal player with the Oilres who probably won't last in the NHL much longer. Tangradi never impressed me much. He is a big kid and skates decently. Eventually, Tangradi is going to be a NHL player playing on the 3rd/4th lines similar to Travis Moen. If Bob Murray saw the potential in the kid being a top 6 player, he would never had traded him. I know he used Bobby Ryan's name as a comparable but he is out to lunch on that. There are few players with Ryan's hands and offensive skills. I hope Tangradi makes me eat crow one day and be a player in this league. Right now, the potential for Ryan Whitney to be a top 4 defensemen for us learning from RC is better than Tangradi making the NHL as an impact player any time soon. Kunitz OTOH is going to make us cry playing alongside Sid and bringing the grit this team seems to be losing with each transaction.

Some people here and on the MB have mentioned that Murray's getting Whitney on a discount. Just to break the trade down IMO, and trying to ignore the fact that I hate Whitney (almost all the Pens are ridiculously overrated based on "potential" - Staal and Fleury too, possibly the other 2 rookie Dmen) I see it as:

A complementary 2nd pairing defenseman (soft, poor defensively, possibly awesome offensively) on a semi-bad contract but who is signed for 4 years

for

a complementary 1st/2nd line winger (well rounded, great at nothing) who may/may not be slightly overpaid (I don't think so, but I could see how some might feel so)
and an A-/B+ prospect (we don't have any A prospects) who has top-6 potential.

Quite honestly that looks like standard value. Kunitz and Whitney are roughly equivalent overall, with the A-/B+ prospect going for the premium based on offensive skill, contract length, and "potential." I don't really see any discount for Whitney's bad TWO prior seasons.



Here's another thought. Let's go over some of Murray's moves. He originally chose defensive Festerling over Mikkelson/Salcido. He acquired energy-player Brown. He acquired Brookbank, a tough-defensive type. He traded the generalist Kunitz for offensive-specialist Whitney. It kind of seems likes Murray likes 1-way players. Anyone else think this is a trend?

Some people here and on the MB have mentioned that Murray's getting Whitney on a discount. Just to break the trade down IMO, and trying to ignore the fact that I hate Whitney (almost all the Pens are ridiculously overrated based on "potential" - Staal and Fleury too, possibly the other 2 rookie Dmen) I see it as:

A complementary 2nd pairing defenseman (soft, poor defensively, possibly awesome offensively) on a semi-bad contract but who is signed for 4 years

for

a complementary 1st/2nd line winger (well rounded, great at nothing) who may/may not be slightly overpaid (I don't think so, but I could see how some might feel so)
and an A-/B+ prospect (we don't have any A prospects) who has top-6 potential.

Quite honestly that looks like standard value. Kunitz and Whitney are roughly equivalent overall, with the A-/B+ prospect going for the premium based on offensive skill, contract length, and "potential." I don't really see any discount for Whitney's bad TWO prior seasons.



Here's another thought. Let's go over some of Murray's moves. He originally chose defensive Festerling over Mikkelson/Salcido. He acquired energy-player Brown. He acquired Brookbank, a tough-defensive type. He traded the generalist Kunitz for offensive-specialist Whitney. It kind of seems likes Murray likes 1-way players. Anyone else think this is a trend?

It may just be he sees specific holes on the team and is addressing them specifically.

Side note, Murray mentioned on the radio that the presence of guys like Deschamps and Brittain made getting rid of Tangradi a lot easier.

I think you will pay a premium for a young offensive minded defenseman. He is making 4 million, but I can think of a few defenseman with less talent making more.

I think the jury is out on Tangardi, but keep in mind Kunitz is 3 years older than Whitney and forwards are a lot easier to find than Defenseman.

My concern is that we really need to focus on a shutdown defenseman because we are really lacking that more than anything. I hope if we make a trade with Washington we get someone like Alzner.

Mitera has always been touted for his sublime defensive play so if we'd get Alzner we'd be set for the future as defensive d-men go.

You think Murray coud pry Fleischmann along with Alzner?

This team has so many holes that trading Pronger and/or Nieds may be the only thing that can right the ship in a timely manner becauseI am concerned about free agency next year....I think we are going to have to massively lower the budget because of the economy and most of the holes we have now will exist next year. If thats the case then spreading out both dmen's salaries to better cover those holes is probably the best thing to do.

BTW, anyone interested in the Kessel for Pronger rumors? I think Kessel would be great, his speed a welcome addition, but I also think we need a defensman back in any deal. I dont know if I can take watching these borderline NHLers in the top 4 night in and night out anymore.

3.7 million per year is a bargain for a 60 pt player.

we wish he was a 60 point player

we wish he was a 60 point player

well he WAS a 60pt player.

He probably will be again with Crosby.

Whitney reminds me slightly of Sandis Ozolinsh in a way. Offensively minded defenseman, could put up 60 points, also not so great in his own end. I'm not as bothered by this trade as I was yesterday, even though losing Kunitz still stings a bit. With the right coaching, Whitney could become a decent 2nd pairing d-man (provided he's paired with a defensive minded partner) and really useful on the PP. This is provided he responds to Randy. Hopefully he's just a case of a player that really needs a change of scenery.

I'm not too thrilled with trading Tangradi, but then again, maybe he was a bit overrated here? I would hope that Murray has another trade (or two) up his sleeve, I would think he would.

I like this trade at least Whitney for Kunnie.

I have not been happy with Chris for the last two seasons. Altough I love his attitude and how hard he plays, the finish just wasn't there since he got his contract.

As for Whitney, I hear a lot of 'he sucks defensively' and how he makes bonehead plays. But has anyone looked at his stats last year? Well I did. Checking the 3 most important defensive stats. +/-, PIM and points.

If you look at last year, Whitney was -2, 45 minutes, and 40 points.
Pronger -1, 128 minutes and 43 points
Scotty -2, 16 minutes and 25 points (played 40% less games).

So the same numbers, less penalty minutes than pronger and millions less.

Sure this year he looks off, but that could be the injury.

Also you call him soft, well then Scotty is soft, and oh yeah, he never turned out to be any good.;)

Give him this year to work out the rust, then next year we can decide.

SoB

Why are you using r and u for are and you?
because i'm retarded! duh!!!

We still got Ryan to be the first line. I know Kune is good but Ryan is just really good. He can get about 35-50 goals.

I love this trade for several reasons.

1. Whitney is 26 entering his prime and is signed for several years.

2. We won't see what he can really bring us until next year when he's had a training camp to get healthy.

3. We are now protected should a team wow us with an offer for Pronger, or Niedermayer retires.

4. Even if we keep both we now have that important number 3 d that we've lacked.

5. The fact that Whitney is a really good PP QB tells me that we are looking to move Pronger.

6. Kunitz has given us alot but the value of this trade is too good to pass up, now instead of needing a couple D in the off-season we may only need one and a forward

7. We maintain our cap flexibility for this summer by trading almost equal contracts but filling our biggest need.

8. Losing Tangradi does hurt but what we get for Pronger will help ease the blow.

5 Stars for Murrays first big move

and to add Whitney was excellent in the playoffs last year, he had that ankle injury so I again say let's wait and see what he gives us next year he won't win any Norris trophies like some Pens fans said he would a few years ago but he still has the ability to be a no.1 or no.2 d

and to add Whitney was excellent in the playoffs last year, he had that ankle injury so I again say let's wait and see what he gives us next year he won't win any Norris trophies like some Pens fans said he would a few years ago but he still has the ability to be a no.1 or no.2 d

I have a feeling he'll be a big part of our core in the future, and yes he's struggling right now but I feel confident Carlyle is going to put him back on track.

Ryan, Getzlaf, Perry, Whitney...If we sell big in the next few days and at the draft we could have a very awesome group of young players to rebuild on. I'm excited.

I apologize if this has already been quoted:

Murray called Kunitz "a true warrior" and said he tried to avoid trading Tangradi but had to give up quality players to fill what he saw as a greater need.

"I don't know if you guys can understand how tough it is to find a puck-moving defenseman," he said. "I guarantee you it's harder to get a top-four defenseman than a top-six forward."

Kunitz with an assist on his second shift :yo:.

edit: and a GOAL!

Kunitz has a goal and an assist so far in the first period.

I apologize if this has already been quoted:

Murray called Kunitz "a true warrior" and said he tried to avoid trading Tangradi but had to give up quality players to fill what he saw as a greater need.

"I don't know if you guys can understand how tough it is to find a puck-moving defenseman," he said. "I guarantee you it's harder to get a top-four defenseman than a top-six forward."
Look at it financially...in free agency puck moving defensemen tend to get the most money these days, it'll be easier to sign a forward

I love this trade for several reasons.

1. Whitney is 26 entering his prime and is signed for several years.

2. We won't see what he can really bring us until next year when he's had a training camp to get healthy.

3. We are now protected should a team wow us with an offer for Pronger, or Niedermayer retires.

4. Even if we keep both we now have that important number 3 d that we've lacked.

5. The fact that Whitney is a really good PP QB tells me that we are looking to move Pronger.

6. Kunitz has given us alot but the value of this trade is too good to pass up, now instead of needing a couple D in the off-season we may only need one and a forward

7. We maintain our cap flexibility for this summer by trading almost equal contracts but filling our biggest need.

8. Losing Tangradi does hurt but what we get for Pronger will help ease the blow.

5 Stars for Murrays first big move

Pens fan's take:

1. Yep.

2. Very possible.

3. From an offensive perspective, sure. But you'll be sorely disappointed if you expect him to ever approach either of them in his own end. Carlyle may eventually mold Whits into a competent defensive player (which he's only been for one short stretch in his career - last year's playoffs, where he was largely protected from the top lines), but to expect anything that could approach compensating Nieds or Pronger, even in a down year, is overly optimistic.

4. Sure, he could fill that role if paired with a good defensive d-man.

5. He isn't a really good PP quarterback though. You'd think he would be with all his points, but they're largely a product of his good transition passing. He always worked the weak side point with Gonchar, and when he had an opportunity to take the reins, he floundered. Goligoski was much better in that role as a rookie.

6. It does seem to address your most glaring weakness pretty well.

7. Mm-hmm.

8. With the Pens being in a similar position as far as good forward prospects go, I'm pretty excited about Tangradi.

We still got Ryan to be the first line. I know Kune is good but Ryan is just really good. He can get about 35-50 goals.

We'll also have the worst 2nd line in the league unless Murray fills the void in the top 6 he just created.

In my mind Murray now has no other option but to trade Niedermayer, Pronger or both.

Kunitz is fitting in well with the Penguins already. He seems to be winning the fans over which is good. I hope it ends the "Kunitz was a throw in for the Tangradi trade" crap.

Look at it financially...in free agency puck moving defensemen tend to get the most money these days, it'll be easier to sign a forward

I think that's a myth. I certainly want a complete refund on the last two forwards the Ducks signed: Bertuzzi and Morrison. Thinking about it have the Ducks EVER signed a free agent forward that fit the bill as a top 6 forward other than Selanne?

EDIT: I suppose Fedorov, but that was a retarded contract.

I think that's a myth. I certainly want a complete refund on the last two forwards the Ducks signed: Bertuzzi and Morrison. Thinking about it have the Ducks EVER signed a free agent forward that fit the bill as a top 6 forward other than Selanne?

EDIT: I suppose Fedorov, but that was a retarded contract.
as opposed to defensemen who are getting all the long term deals?

Thinking about it have the Ducks EVER signed a free agent forward that fit the bill as a top 6 forward other than Selanne?



Oates, Prospal maybe? Other than that not really. The UFA foward signings off the top of my head weren't very good; Titov was terrible, Bertuzzi and Morrison both sucked, those are about the only ones I remember being signed to fill in a top 6 role.

I think that's a myth. I certainly want a complete refund on the last two forwards the Ducks signed: Bertuzzi and Morrison. Thinking about it have the Ducks EVER signed a free agent forward that fit the bill as a top 6 forward other than Selanne?

EDIT: I suppose Fedorov, but that was a retarded contract.
I'm not sure it's a myth. You bring up some good names, but they were because of Burke's nepotism (Bertucrappi) and because we were bargain-basement shopping due to cap/budget contraints (Morrison and all the crap we've ever signed in our history like Titov).

Also, this upcoming FA class looks to have many more serviceable forwards compared to defensemen.

Oates, Prospal maybe? Other than that not really. The UFA foward signings off the top of my head weren't very good; Titov was terrible, Bertuzzi and Morrison both sucked, those are about the only ones I remember being signed to fill in a top 6 role.

Sykora

I'm not sure it's a myth. You bring up some good names, but they were because of Burke's nepotism (Bertucrappi) and because we were bargain-basement shopping due to cap/budget contraints (Morrison and all the crap we've ever signed in our history like Titov).

We'll be under the exact same budget constraints next season.

Also, this upcoming FA class looks to have many more serviceable forwards compared to defensemen.

I'm not trying to imply that finding a defenseman is easy. It's not. But neither is finding a legit 60 point top 6 forward.... something I consider to be a cut above just "serviceable".

Sykora

Was acquired in a trade.

as opposed to defensemen who are getting all the long term deals?

The real point of what I'm saying is this trade is at best a step sideways. Murray filled a hole by creating a hole. You want to think having the forward hole is some how better, but I don't.

Was acquired in a trade.

Opps, that's right. Does Jari Kurri count?

Opps, that's right. Does Jari Kurri count?

35 points in 82 games... exactly what I'm talking about :)

35 points in 82 games... exactly what I'm talking about :)

D-men are more difficult to aquire in this league. Much less 1st rounders capable of scoring 60+ points.
I'll gladly take our chances on finding another forward. Murray's working on it. I'm certainly not worried about it given our cap limitations. We should be average for awhile, what else is new?

We'll be under the exact same budget constraints next season.



I'm not trying to imply that finding a defenseman is easy. It's not. But neither is finding a legit 60 point top 6 forward.... something I consider to be a cut above just "serviceable".
Yes we will be under budget constraints, but my point is that it seems like there's more bargain forwards available than defensemen. So in that sense I think it would be easier to theoretically fill a forward hole than a defenseman hole.

Although if you ask me, the Whitney trade creates 2 holes (forward AND defense as Whitney's a hole in of himself) out of 1 (defense).

Why is this a GREAT trade for the Ducks?
Because it wasn't a Brian Burke trade
:)

I think that's a myth. I certainly want a complete refund on the last two forwards the Ducks signed: Bertuzzi and Morrison. Thinking about it have the Ducks EVER signed a free agent forward that fit the bill as a top 6 forward other than Selanne?

EDIT: I suppose Fedorov, but that was a retarded contract.

Hmmm let me think,
oh yes thats right the very man you are *****ing about trading was signed as a FREE AGENT! Yes chris Kunitz was a free agent!
Along with Dustin Penner, Andy Mcdonald, Sergei Fedorov, Vinnie Prospal, Teemu Selanne, Adam Oates, Todd Bertuzzi,Ryan Carter, Ryan Shannon, Jason Krog, Andrew Ebbett, Brendan Morrison.
to name a few....

Hmmm let me think,
oh yes thats right the very man you are *****ing about trading was signed as a FREE AGENT! Yes chris Kunitz was a free agent!
Along with Dustin Penner, Andy Mcdonald, Sergei Fedorov, Vinnie Prospal, Teemu Selanne, Adam Oates, Todd Bertuzzi,Ryan Carter, Ryan Shannon, Jason Krog, Andrew Ebbett, Brendan Morrison.
to name a few....

technically we waiver claimed him the last time we got him :P

Hmmm let me think,
oh yes thats right the very man you are *****ing about trading was signed as a FREE AGENT! Yes chris Kunitz was a free agent!
Along with Dustin Penner, Andy Mcdonald, Sergei Fedorov, Vinnie Prospal, Teemu Selanne, Adam Oates, Todd Bertuzzi,Ryan Carter, Ryan Shannon, Jason Krog, Andrew Ebbett, Brendan Morrison.
to name a few....

I think he was referring to unrestricted free agents as opposed to free agents signed out of college, and other than Oates and Selanne no one who was signed to fill in a top 6 role has ever lead Anaheim anywhere. Fedorov and Prospal produced somewhat but nowhere near their capabilites and the Ducks missed the playoffs that year when they were expected to make it.

Kunitz is fitting in well with the Penguins already. He seems to be winning the fans over which is good. I hope it ends the "Kunitz was a throw in for the Tangradi trade" crap.

He definitely won some fans over with his play last night. Pens lost Malone who was the only player on the team who wasn't against standing in the slot and getting those dirty goals. Kunitz did that quite a few times last night, had a goal and an assist, and muffed what should have been his 2nd goal.

Like I said before, the winner of this trade cannot possibly be deemed now. When Tangradi finally gets to the pro ranks, then we can probably conclude who won or lost.

Whitney was hurt for a majority of the slide the Pens have been on, him coming back and not playing well didn't help his cause. I was one of Whitney's hardest lobbyists this season and I can tell you the following...

The guy has ridiculous offensive potential. He has one of the best breakout passes in the NHL, and pretty much any skill you look for in an offensive defenseman...he has it. He scored 59 points as a 23 year old, and it is a shame that this foot injury really set him back when he was gaining some momentum.

He played very well in our run to the Cup last year. Most of us thought he was finally turning the corner with his defensive play, to no avail. He is soft and you won't see him hit often, if ever. If paired with a Pronger type is where you will get the most from Whitney.

I am still in the camp where I don't think he is fully 100% healthy. He had a misaligned foot, and that is not a simple procedure to fix. I would give him until next season to really start to pass judgement on him. He supposedly had this abnormality for a while, and played though an immense amount of pain to finish the season last year, so though he isn't physical, his toughness isn't questionable.

If you talk to most Pens fans, they will rip him to shreds because in this city, regardless of how much of a skill you are, if you aren't tough you are useless. That is the trap Whitney fell into. A scapegoat needed to be lashed for the slide we have been going through, and Whitney with his subpar play was a prime target.

I just hope the Ducks find Whitney a better foot doctor than Forsberg had.

Hmmm let me think,
oh yes thats right the very man you are *****ing about trading was signed as a FREE AGENT! Yes chris Kunitz was a free agent!
Along with Dustin Penner, Andy Mcdonald, Sergei Fedorov, Vinnie Prospal, Teemu Selanne, Adam Oates, Todd Bertuzzi,Ryan Carter, Ryan Shannon, Jason Krog, Andrew Ebbett, Brendan Morrison.
to name a few....

You want to sign a hobey baker winner as a free agent and then wait 3 seasons for him to develop. Awesome plan. Along the way we can get a couple of top 10 draft picks.

Yes we will be under budget constraints, but my point is that it seems like there's more bargain forwards available than defensemen. So in that sense I think it would be easier to theoretically fill a forward hole than a defenseman hole.

Let's hope so. I'm waiting to see what comes back from Pronger, etc before I really worry about it.

I was just catching up on this thread. Having watched Whitney play many games over the past 4 seasons, here's my take:

The guy has Norris potential, as we saw glimpses of two seasons ago, but he has regressed over the past two seasons in Pittsburgh. Is this due to his ankle, coaching, mentoring, confidence, usage? Who knows. It could be a number of these things.

Anaheim is probably the best place for Whitney right now. He just needs to regain confidence and get his act together, and playing with Pronger, Neids for Carlyle on a team that is rebuilding and not entering their prime cup years as the Pens are is a huge advantage to a guy in his situation.

The Penguins can't bet on him anymore. They need proven performers, which this trade got them in Kunitz. The Ducks on the otherhand, acquired a long term Defenseman who has top notch potential and may be able to turn his game around with such a simple thing as a change of scenery.

I know the Boston game was a blowout, but Whitney appeared more comfortable in that game than any Penguin game this season. Perhaps this is due to significantly less pressure on him.

Whitney has looked very solid in the last two games (I know, middle of the 2nd game). His puck moving skills as advertised are great.

Whitney has looked very solid in the last two games (I know, middle of the 2nd game). His puck moving skills as advertised are great.

yep I agree, but I think we might really regret giving up Tangradi when its all said and done.

He may top out to a Surtherby, but from all accounts, he sounds like he's a top notch prospect (as we'll see next time prospects are evaluated).

If anyone else (other than Gardiner) it would have been fantastic.

yep I agree, but I think we might really regret giving up Tangradi when its all said and done.

He may top out to a Surtherby, but from all accounts, he sounds like he's a top notch prospect (as we'll see next time prospects are evaluated).

If anyone else (other than Gardiner) it would have been fantastic.
Prospects tend to get a big bump in percieved potential when they're traded out of here, remember. Don't buy into it until you see it.

With Chris Kunitz now playing for the Penguins, Drew Miller will get an audition on the Ducks top line alongside Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry Tuesday against the Blackhawks

Oh dear...the trade has its bad effects...

With Chris Kunitz now playing for the Penguins, Drew Miller will get an audition on the Ducks top line alongside Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry Tuesday against the Blackhawks
Oh dear...the trade has its bad effects...
:banghead:

I can't think of a poorer possible fit. Miller's smart, and he knows where to be. That's great. But with the twins' style (playing along the boards) and Miller's utter inability to win a board battle even against the mites that play between periods...

edit: and it's not like he has a shot so he could be a "floaty sniper" on the line.

:banghead:

I can't think of a poorer possible fit.

There are zero better candidates for that spot. But we have an awesome D now. :shakehead

:banghead:

I can't think of a poorer possible fit. Miller's smart, and he knows where to be. That's great. But with the twins' style (playing along the boards) and Miller's utter inability to win a board battle even against the mites that play between periods...

edit: and it's not like he has a shot so he could be a "floaty sniper" on the line.

I thought he played well the other day against Dallas. He is still weak along the boards but his speed is welcome, and he provides at least some defensive ability on that line.

The guy just needs time to get comfortable. Its not like we werent saying the same things about Ebbett that we are saying about Miller. If he has a regular role I think he can at least be serviceable.

getting a legit #3 dman is far more important for the Ducks than their top LW.

if they hadnt made this trade you guys would be whining about not having a 3rd capable 20+ minute dman.

if they hadnt made this trade you guys would be whining about not having a 3rd capable 20+ minute dman.

Schnieder for picks. Havelid for a Festerling type. Those are the deals teams looking at "now" are making.

Whitney for Kunitz is a long term trade that does nothing to address the now. So which way does Murray go? I'm happy to the go the long term retool route but everything else Murray is saying contradicts that. Trade Pronger or Niedermayer already!

Oh dear...the trade has its bad effects...

Dear God... please no...

I would rather Carter, or even R.Niedermayer on Getzlaf and Perrys line than Drew Miller.

I would rather Carter, or even R.Niedermayer on Getzlaf and Perrys line than Drew Miller.

Carter would be my choice but he hasn't really earned it IMO. He'd be my choice just because he seems like the best temporary fit. Brown would be my second choice.

Carter would be my choice but he hasn't really earned it IMO. He'd be my choice just because he seems like the best temporary fit. Brown would be my second choice.

1. Carter (No brainer)
2. Miller (He looked decent last game)
3. R. Niedermayer
4. Moen
5. Brown

what about Miro Satan?

WTF???

I really don't care about Kunitz, but Tangradi is tearing the OHL and we deal him away???

Terrible deal Murray :shakehead

WTF???

I really don't care about Kunitz, but Tangradi is tearing the OHL and we deal him away???

Terrible deal Murray :shakehead

lol a little late to the party man =).

There are zero better candidates for that spot. But we have an awesome D now. :shakehead
Well I'd prefer Niedermayer, Carter, or even Moen there. Even Brown if they're really desperate. I'm not against playing Miller offensively (on the 2nd line or something), he just seems the absolute opposite of what I'd want playing with the twins.
I thought he played well the other day against Dallas. He is still weak along the boards but his speed is welcome, and he provides at least some defensive ability on that line.

The guy just needs time to get comfortable. Its not like we werent saying the same things about Ebbett that we are saying about Miller. If he has a regular role I think he can at least be serviceable.
As an aside, I don't believe I've said anything negative about Ebbett other than complaining about this defense. But that's not the point. Yeah he needs some slack to work his way into the NHL.

I don't mind giving Miller time, I just think he should be on a different style line. If they expect offense out of him (and he has shown offense in the AHL, so it's not that much of a stretch), why not put him with Ebbett and Selanne, two other faster, more perimeter type guys? Although maybe Carlyle's trying to balance the lines a little more stylistically.

NHL.com front page has a large picture of Kunitz scoring a goal. Yay.

WTF???

I really don't care about Kunitz, but Tangradi is tearing the OHL and we deal him away???

Terrible deal Murray :shakehead

That doesn't mean he's going to tear up the NHL. Corey Locke was a stud in the OHL a few seasons ago, as an over-ager, and where's he? Tangradi has a good shot at being a pretty good NHL player but there's no guarantee. He wasn't even among the best US forwards and the World Junior team and he didn't look very spectacular in training camp. No better than Logan MacMillan whom everyone assumes is terrible because his stats.

Bottom line is we needed someone like Whitney much more than we needed Tangradi. Plus we have a number of guys who may end up being as good or better in the system already (MacMillan, Deschamps, O'Dell, Brittain) and Murray may still acquire a stud prospect tomorrow. We acquired a top-4 d-man for a kid who won't be in the NHL for at least a year.

I don't mind giving Miller time, I just think he should be on a different style line. If they expect offense out of him (and he has shown offense in the AHL, so it's not that much of a stretch), why not put him with Ebbett and Selanne, two other faster, more perimeter type guys? Although maybe Carlyle's trying to balance the lines a little more stylistically.

Miller looked pretty good today with Perry. Unfortunately, he has limited offensive skills and Getzlaf just dogged it. Ebbett and Selanne are complementary players and Ryan is so strong along the board that the line completely dominated today. I don't think RC should be playing around so much with the lines with 17 games left in the season.

Schnieder for picks. Havelid for a Festerling type. Those are the deals teams looking at "now" are making.

Whitney for Kunitz is a long term trade that does nothing to address the now. So which way does Murray go? I'm happy to the go the long term retool route but everything else Murray is saying contradicts that. Trade Pronger or Niedermayer already!
Havelid and Schneider are not players that we would build around long term, big difference

Havelid and Schneider are not players that we would build around long term, big difference

That was my point, thanks for catching that.

That was my point, thanks for catching that.
The trade still addresses now because 3rd D has been a big problem all year

That doesn't mean he's going to tear up the NHL. Corey Locke was a stud in the OHL a few seasons ago, as an over-ager, and where's he? Tangradi has a good shot at being a pretty good NHL player but there's no guarantee. He wasn't even among the best US forwards and the World Junior team and he didn't look very spectacular in training camp. No better than Logan MacMillan whom everyone assumes is terrible because his stats.

Bottom line is we needed someone like Whitney much more than we needed Tangradi. Plus we have a number of guys who may end up being as good or better in the system already (MacMillan, Deschamps, O'Dell, Brittain) and Murray may still acquire a stud prospect tomorrow. We acquired a top-4 d-man for a kid who won't be in the NHL for at least a year.

Umm, and for your top line LW, who has 11 points in nine games. As a Pens fan (and I wasnt one of the Whitney bashers either) I LOVE this trade. Of course Kunitz wont keep up that torrid scoring pace, but what he has brought to the Penguins is someone who actually CAN not only play with Sid, but thrive with Sid.
How is Whit doin? I wish him the best!

Umm, and for your top line LW, who has 11 points in nine games. As a Pens fan (and I wasnt one of the Whitney bashers either) I LOVE this trade. Of course Kunitz wont keep up that torrid scoring pace, but what he has brought to the Penguins is someone who actually CAN not only play with Sid, but thrive with Sid.
How is Whit doin? I wish him the best!

He's our 4th best winger...the only negative was that he was a LW, and now we need someone to fill that hole.

I'm not surprised he is thriving in Pitt. He plays on a line that plays a similar style to The A-mac-Selanne line where Kunitz put up his best seasons.

Kunitz is an amazing role player. He's a great forechecker, physical, and has somewhat of a scoring touch. I'm not suprised he's doing well at all.

Having said that, I think the Ducks are happy with how well Whitney has fit in (so far). He really addressed a weakness we had in our lineup.

Yeah the Pens fans completely exaggerated any of the flaws Whitney has

Yeah the Pens fans completely exaggerated any of the flaws Whitney has

They did exaggerate, but I think that Whitney just needed a change of scenery. Lets face it; the man was not playing well in Pittsburgh.

He has played very well here so far.

The Ducks have played much better defense with Whitney and Wiesniewski. The sad experiment of letting two unproven rookies (Festerling and Mikkelsson) play in our top 4 was a complete bust and large reason why we struggled this year. Bob Murray should deserve credit for bringing in two able bodies to help rebuild this defense for the future.

The Ducks have played much better defense with Whitney and Wiesniewski. The sad experiment of letting two unproven rookies (Festerling and Mikkelsson) play in our top 4 was a complete bust and large reason why we struggled this year. Bob Murray should deserve credit for bringing in two able bodies to help rebuild this defense for the future.

I'd still really like to see Salcido get a good look though.

I'd still really like to see Salcido get a good look though.

Nice avatar.

Yeah I think Salcido should get a look if we don't make up some ground in the playoff race.

In fact, I'd prefer that they tank the rest of the games in an effort to get a top 5 pick if they don't win their next 2 games.

Yeah the Pens fans completely exaggerated any of the flaws Whitney has
They weren't exaggerating that much. He was terrible. Maybe it's just the change of scenery, or maybe it's playing in a team with an actual defensive structure.

In fact, I'd prefer that they tank the rest of the games in an effort to get a top 5 pick if they don't win their next 2 games.
It's exceedingly unlikely they can get a top 5 pick. Right now top 5 (tied) has 6 fewer points than us, and both of those teams have played 2 more games.

It's exceedingly unlikely they can get a top 5 pick. Right now top 5 (tied) has 6 fewer points than us, and both of those teams have played 2 more games.

Yer, 5th last in points % is Phoenix and they are on pace for 75, we'd have to go 2-11-0 to 'better' that

So what's the highest we can pick? Theoretically?

If every team stays on current pace we could drop to 6th last (Ottawa/LA are there now and currently on pace for 81 points) by going 5-8-0. Winning the lottery would then take us up to #2 but that's very unlikely (6.2% from 6th last)

So what's the highest we can pick? Theoretically?

At 70 points the Ducks would pick 8th right now. There are two teams at 68 points and then three teams at 64 points. Any where from the 6th pick to the 9th pick is most likely, with an outside shot at 5th and 10th.

The 5th pick would take one of those 64 point teams making up the 6 point gap to pass them. I just don't see that happening.

Winning the lottery would then take us up to #2I'd be down for some Tavares/Hedman :)

At 70 points the Ducks would pick 8th right now. There are two teams at 68 points and then three teams at 64 points. Any where from the 6th pick to the 9th pick is most likely, with an outside shot at 5th and 10th.

The 5th pick would take one of those 64 point teams making up the 6 point gap to pass them. I just don't see that happening.

Thanks Hank, I guess we should hope they lose the rest?

I'm torn, I want them in the playoff's but I think we'll get beat up, but I also want a good pick.

I think we would do better with the pick.
:help:

Thanks Hank, I guess we should hope they lose the rest?

I'm torn, I want them in the playoff's but I think we'll get beat up, but I also want a good pick.

I think we would do better with the pick.
:help:

I want to make the playoffs so people show up next year.

I want to make the playoffs so people show up next year.

I know what you're saying but the playoff's don't guarantee butts in the seats the next year.

I'm torn, I want them in the playoff's but I think we'll get beat up, but I also want a good pick.

Hope for the better pick and root for Pahlsson/Chicago in the playoffs... that is my plan. :)

I would rather lose in the playoffs than not make it at all but at this point we're not going to make it so I wouldn't mind seeing a higher draft position. Knowing Anaheim they'll win enough to give everyone a glimmer of hope and end up missing the playoffs and not getting a top ten pick.

At 70 points the Ducks would pick 8th right now. There are two teams at 68 points and then three teams at 64 points. Any where from the 6th pick to the 9th pick is most likely, with an outside shot at 5th and 10th.

The 5th pick would take one of those 64 point teams making up the 6 point gap to pass them. I just don't see that happening.

With three head-to-head matchups against Phoenix (two on the road) it is certainly possible that we could "pass" them in the standings and move to 5th overall.

They weren't exaggerating that much. He was terrible. Maybe it's just the change of scenery, or maybe it's playing in a team with an actual defensive structure.


It's exceedingly unlikely they can get a top 5 pick. Right now top 5 (tied) has 6 fewer points than us, and both of those teams have played 2 more games.
Perhaps, I just think Whitney has been fantastic so far, maybe our best dman right now...we just can't score goals

Umm, and for your top line LW, who has 11 points in nine games. As a Pens fan (and I wasnt one of the Whitney bashers either) I LOVE this trade. Of course Kunitz wont keep up that torrid scoring pace, but what he has brought to the Penguins is someone who actually CAN not only play with Sid, but thrive with Sid.
How is Whit doin? I wish him the best!

I was referring to Tangradi. I'm a huge Kunitz fan and this trade stung at first but I'm happy that Kunie is tearing it up.

I'm very pleased with Whitney so far. Our transition game is almost night and day since he's been here and I'm loving it. He hasn't put up many points but that's not for a lack of trying. He's been in on the rush and taking a lot of shots. I got to meet him recently at a charity event and he's a real nice guy too. This has been as fair a trade we've had in some time.

Hey, Pens fan here. So it looks like both sides have been happy with their returns? Kunitz so far has been the perfect addition to our lineup, showing good chemistry with Sid (and earlier with Staal as well). It will be great to have the same guy on Crosby's wing for a couple of years instead of the revolving door we had until now.

Btw, does anyone here know the exact numbers of Tangradi's entry-level deal? What's his cap hit going to be?

Perhaps, I just think Whitney has been fantastic so far, maybe our best dman right now...we just can't score goals

Give the Pens fans, whom you accuse of exxageration, a little bit of credit. They watched him game in and out for several seasons, thus they have some wiggle room.
I am certain there is some hating going on as I have always been a fan of Whitney, but I wasnt blind either. He simply isnt the same player he once was. Perhaps a change of scenery will do him some good, but watch him for an entire season and you will see the cracks and lapses they speak of.

Whitney has played well for Anaheim but I am sure that has more to do with Chris Pronger than anything else.

I was referring to Tangradi. I'm a huge Kunitz fan and this trade stung at first but I'm happy that Kunie is tearing it up.

I'm very pleased with Whitney so far. Our transition game is almost night and day since he's been here and I'm loving it. He hasn't put up many points but that's not for a lack of trying. He's been in on the rush and taking a lot of shots. I got to meet him recently at a charity event and he's a real nice guy too. This has been as fair a trade we've had in some time.

One of those RARE deals that seems a perfect fit for both sides where both fan bases are happy...excellent!