So...now we need a center?

I was going to post this in the TG thread, but I figured this topic would just run it into the ground.

http://njmg.typepad.com/devilsblog/2009/02/time-to-regroup.html#more

**The Devils have not scored an even-strength goal in their last three games. Twice in those three games (both shutout losses), Brent Sutter shifted Patrik Elias from left wing to center between Brian Rolston and Brian Gionta and dropped Dainius Zubrus off the line.

In Thursday's 3-2 shootout win over Tampa Bay, Sutter used Travis Zajac between Elias and Gionta while Zach Parise was sitting out the second period with the stomach flu and that was the best period we've seen from Elias and Gionta for some time.

It seems that Zubrus' time centering Elias and Gionta might have reached its effective end. It could be that Zubrus never recovered from that wrist injury (or whatever it was) that started bothering him in early January, but, regardless, general manager Lou Lamoriello might need to look for a center before the March 4 trade deadline.

He might want to check with Nashville if Jason Arnott is available.

Have our needs suddenly changed? It's obvious we need an offensive defenseman, but if Zubbie, Patty, and Gio can't get it going by the time the playoffs roll around, we're screwed.

I'd like to think Lou could pull off a trade for a d-man and a center (no, Rob Niedermayer cannot center that line), but it seems highly unlikely. Hell, I'm not even sure he'll be able to fill one of those two needs. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone from Lowell who can step into those roles either.

This is going to be a fun week and a half.

I still think Elias makes a fine center. Another forward would not be a bad thing, but I still think we need that d-man more than anything. A defenseman will make the forwards that much better.

I know it would take a lot, but Arnott and Suter from Nashville would be the absolute ideal.

I know it would take a lot, but Arnott and Suter from Nashville would be the absolute ideal.
1st in 09, Salmela, Tedenby, Bergfors, Eckford? :laugh:

But seriously, I think if Elias got switched to center, I think it could work. We would just have to give it a few games. If Lou really wants to get a good center AND a good defenseman, I don't know if he can do it. I honestly think it is our defense, but I think the problem is that Lou can only get one or the other.

I'd rather give the Elias-Rolston-Gionta line a couple games first before we find out if we need another offensive center. At this point I'm just grateful we have one, compared to last year when we had zero.

Maybe Lou could possibly dangle Rolston if he wants both a Center and a Defenseman...:dunno:

Maybe Lou could possibly dangle Rolston if he wants both a Center and a Defenseman...:dunno:
Rolston ain't going anywhere.

If Elias plays C, we're gonna need another goal scorer, he will not score at the position. If you don't like his dipsy-doodling ******** that he's gotten himself into lately, it'll get 10x's worse at C, where his job is to pretty much, dipsy-doodle. And he won't be playing with Zach, so the stiffs he plays with won't finish.

I think TG is overstating the need a bit. Arnott would be a pretty big leap but he would be fitting what I'm looking for, in another 20 goal forward. I don't trust him physically and I don't know what the relationship with him and Lou is.

The priority is a 1st pairing defenseman. 2nd line C is an issue you solve in the offseason unless something drops in your lap.

Arnott please and a dman. I still think a top 4 guy like Leopold makes more sense then a Kaberle since it will most likely leave us with assets incase we have to make another deal.

Patty needs a big center and right now Zubrus is like a poor mans big center. Also a major problem is that Gionta only has 13 freaking goals. And before I get chastised yes i know he does a lot more so you don't need to remind me I'm jsut saying you have to expect more goal production from him. At least I did/do.

I think all we need to do is maintain some continuity line wise and not change them early in the 2nd if we get down by a goal. Sutter is always mixing the lines that nobody knows whats going on. Let them play through it. Why separate things that have been working extremely well all year?

I think all we need to do is maintain some continuity line wise and not change them early in the 2nd if we get down by a goal. Sutter is always mixing the lines that nobody knows whats going on. Let them play through it. Why separate things that have been working extremely well all year?

he's only done that the last 3 games since we have looked completely lost out on the ice. Other then that we've had the line the same for several months now.

The truth is there've been rumblings that we've been looking for a center all season, we've just dismissed them as irrelevant or inaccurate - and I figured that if Lou was looking to supplant anyone, it was Madden, not Zubrus.

If something happens, it happens. With a defenseman I still think this team is rock-solid.

I still think Elias makes a fine center. Another forward would not be a bad thing, but I still think we need that d-man more than anything. A defenseman will make the forwards that much better.

I know it would take a lot, but Arnott and Suter from Nashville would be the absolute ideal.

I thought about Suter today. He's signed at $3.5M until 2012 and he's exactly what we need. Martin and him looked really good together at the WHC last year and I heard he's good friends with Zach. Even if we have to give up a lot for him, it would be worth it since he's signed long term, and he's young.

im not liking Rolston atm
he doesn't have the drive and hustle that you expect of a top-6 forward

I thought about Suter today. He's signed at $3.5M until 2012 and he's exactly what we need. Martin and him looked really good together at the WHC last year and I heard he's good friends with Zach. Even if we have to give up a lot for him, it would be worth it since he's signed long term, and he's young.

I would give up our first and any of our prospects for him.

elias needs to stay on wing, he has been playing too well not to keep him there

The truth is there've been rumblings that we've been looking for a center all season, we've just dismissed them as irrelevant or inaccurate - and I figured that if Lou was looking to supplant anyone, it was Madden, not Zubrus.

If something happens, it happens. With a defenseman I still think this team is rock-solid.

I agree defense is certainly more important. Also my thought is that Zubs would replace Madden. I think Patty is desperately needing a big dominate centre. Zubrus is good and is getting the job done for the most part but it could still be better. Look at the beginning of the year when Rolston was the centre for Patty, there was the thought that he is the answer for him until we realized he is uber soft. I think we are still searching for the right guy for Patty and we probably always will be, to be honest.

elias needs to stay on wing, he has been playing too well not to keep him there

Yea, but if he stays on the wing he's going to need a center.

I would give up our first and any of our prospects for him.

most definitely. Suter is an amazing Dman. Certainly worth any picks and prospects.

Yea, but if he stays on the wing he's going to need a center.

yea, and i dont think rolston should play center so we might just need a center. arnott would be awesome

I would give up our first and any of our prospects for him.
Absolutely.

Arnott and Niedermayer back to Devils?

I've heard from a well known source within the Devils organization that says Lou will acquire both of these guys before the March 4th deadline.

(E5)

Arnott and Niedermayer back to Devils?

I've heard from a well known source within the Devils organization that says Lou will acquire both of these guys before the March 4th deadline.

(E5)
Would be nice...

Arnott and Niedermayer back to Devils?

I've heard from a well known source within the Devils organization that says Lou will acquire both of these guys before the March 4th deadline.

(E5)

please please please!

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Arnott - Rolston
Zubrus - Madden - Gionta
Shanahan - Holik - Clarkson
Rupp

:)

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Arnott - Rolston
Zubrus - Madden - Gionta
Shanahan - Holik - Clarkson
Rupp

:)
And then:

Martin-Suter
Salvador-Oduya
White-Mottau

Brodeur

:D

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Arnott - Rolston
Zubrus - Madden - Gionta
Shanahan - Holik - Clarkson
Rupp

:)

http://icalmahdi.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/cat-smile.jpg

plus add a dman:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-happy-drunk-orange-cat.jpg

Have Clarktard play center and have him fill in for Zubrus. If he can stand in front of the net and deflect Rolston's slappers then he should be able to do the same for Gio and Patty's shots. The Elias-Zubs-Gio line should be broken up. I think a Elias-Clarkson-Rolston line would be a poor mans ZZ pop's line.

Have Clarktard play center and have him fill in for Zubrus. If he can stand in front of the net and deflect Rolston's slappers then he should be able to do the same for Gio and Patty's shots. The Elias-Zubs-Gio line should be broken up. I think a Elias-Clarkson-Rolston line would be a poor mans ZZ pop's line.

Clarkson at center would be a disaster.

Clarkson would never ever be able to play center.

Maybe we could move Madden to center the Elias-Gio line and drop Zubes to the third line.

Maybe we could move Madden to center the Elias-Gio line and drop Zubes to the third line.

Demote Zubrus:sarcasm:

The guy who made that thread would be so happy.

Maybe we could move Madden to center the Elias-Gio line and drop Zubes to the third line.

I certainly wouldnt mind it. Then the third line would be Rolston-Zubrus-Clarkson. I think that can be surprisingly good.

Demote Zubrus:sarcasm:

The guy who made that thread would be so happy.

Hey, Elias/Gio were bumped down to the Madden line on more than one occasion since Sutter got here. Unfortunately, Pandolfo was there to cancel them out. If we bring Madden up to them we might see a different result.

I certainly wouldnt mind it. Then the third line would be Rolston-Zubrus-Clarkson. I think that can be surprisingly good.

I think it would be great I just don't think Madden would work well with Patty. If I recall correctly Madden played with Patty for a few games earlier in the year. In the back to back with Washington I believe.

Hey, Elias/Gio were bumped down to the Madden line on more than one occasion since Sutter got here. Unfortunately, Pandolfo was there to cancel them out. If we bring Madden up to them we might see a different result.

i think elias was dropped because gionta or zurbus were hurt, and he said he was line matching and he wanted to get elias out there more often. i cant remember who we were playing but their best offensive line was also their worst defensive so thats why sutter added elias to the line

Clarkson at center would be a disaster.

Some thing has to be done with him. I'm not impressed with him at all. He is reliability inconsistent. Clarkaround fails and turns the puck over 75% of the time. I beat my head against the wall every game where we are getting physically dominated he is no where to be found.

But i guess this aint the thread for this.

Some thing has to be done with him. I'm not impressed with him at all. He is reliability inconsistent. Clarkaround fails and turns the puck over 75% of the time. I beat my head against the wall every game where we are getting physically dominated he is no where to be found.

But i guess this aint the thread for this.
I don't know what games you've been watching but ive really liked the way Clarkson has played this season.

Some thing has to be done with him. I'm not impressed with him at all. He is reliability inconsistent. Clarkaround fails and turns the puck over 75% of the time. I beat my head against the wall every game where we are getting physically dominated he is no where to be found.

But i guess this aint the thread for this.

And you want to reward him by making him the second line center? I'd hate to think what you'd want to do to the defensemen whose names will not be repeated.

Clarkson at center would be a disaster.

yea he doesnt have teh wheels or head to play center

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Elias - Arnott - Rolston
Zubrus - Madden - Gionta
Shanahan - Holik - Clarkson
Rupp

:)

And then:

Martin-Suter
Salvador-Oduya
White-Mottau

Brodeur

:D

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/a4d5ed9f4988b3692a5ce940b516f57d.jpg

And you want to reward him by making him the second line center? I'd hate to think what you'd want to do to the defensemen whose names will not be repeated.
Ehh you can look at it as a promotion but i don't. I look at it as a possibility for a more productive Elias and Gio.

I think i am in the same boat as everyone else for the D-man.

Suter looks pretty good in a Devils uniform.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y248/O-mizzle/suternj.jpg

Rolston ain't going anywhere.

And that's very unfortunate.

Rolston is to old.

I still think Elias makes a fine center. Another forward would not be a bad thing, but I still think we need that d-man more than anything. A defenseman will make the forwards that much better.

I know it would take a lot, but Arnott and Suter from Nashville would be the absolute ideal.
Arnott and Hamhuis.

Rolston is to old.

what Chelios is to young??

I agree defense is certainly more important. Also my thought is that Zubs would replace Madden. I think Patty is desperately needing a big dominate centre. Zubrus is good and is getting the job done for the most part but it could still be better. Look at the beginning of the year when Rolston was the centre for Patty, there was the thought that he is the answer for him until we realized he is uber soft. I think we are still searching for the right guy for Patty and we probably always will be, to be honest.

Who's soft, Rolston?:shakehead Because his ankle buckled?

Who's soft, Rolston?:shakehead Because his ankle buckled?

seriously he has been playing really soft lately. He won't battle in corners and he avoids any physical contact and its cost us a few goals. I'm not in the camp that says he needs to go just that he isn't the big physical centre that Elias needs. I like Rolston a lot and I like what he does bring to the team but honestly I'm really surprised to see him play like this. I remembered him as something different. I guess I didn't watch enough of him in Minnesota.

i dont think we need a center. i do think that the lines posted above do look very sexy but i think not having martin and the need for a 2nd d-man will changes things. the islanders were very desperate for a win last night and they got it. The devils were very desperate to beat boston and san jose and they did that, they dont seem to be playing with the same desire they had a few weeks ago.

all we can say is hopefully after the 4 day break we will see that same devils team we saw a week ago. every top team went through a few bad games recently they will bounce back i know they will.

Clarkson at center would be the funniest disaster ever. Zubrus has looked pretty bad in this recent stretch. Rolston can't be playing with Madden and Clarkson anymore. It's time to keep him in the top six. Gionta has to move down in lines or be traded.

http://trinitypastor.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/broken_record.jpg

i would arnott back, but hes got a nmc correct? im sure hed be willing to come back to the swampghetto for another go at the cup. but jokinen is another option. hes having an off year by his standards which might lower his value slightly, and the devs might be able to get 2 yotes off that team with lous trickery. i know im a broken record but hes no schlub and is more talented than zubrus, as much as i like zubrus too. i honestly think, even as much as i dislike gio, when the offense wakes up again, theyll be in fine shape. its just the defense that needs a shot in the arm. but since were talking centers in this thread, theres my 2 cents.

Arnott please and a dman. I still think a top 4 guy like Leopold makes more sense then a Kaberle since it will most likely leave us with assets incase we have to make another deal.

Patty needs a big center and right now Zubrus is like a poor mans big center. Also a major problem is that Gionta only has 13 freaking goals. And before I get chastised yes i know he does a lot more so you don't need to remind me I'm jsut saying you have to expect more goal production from him. At least I did/do.

Are you kidding me? Lol i have been saying the exact same thing since the end of December and you ripped into me for it! You told me i dont watch hockey, dont know the game, etc. What a tool you are.

Told you so? :nod:

Are you kidding me? Lol i have been saying the exact same thing since the end of December and you ripped into me for it! You told me i dont watch hockey, dont know the game, etc. What a tool you are.

Told you so? :nod:

Yea, because in December Zubbie was playing great.

That group of forwards is amazing, and you could mix the lines up quite a bit. If we got Arnott I would cream myself, but we really do need a legit defenseman. I don't want to watch another playoffs where our defense gets absolutely crushed.

Mmmm, maybe move Holik to defense? :D

Offensive defenseman is the way to go. We will be fine at center IMO. Zub will snap at of it in time for the PO.

Maybe Lou could possibly dangle Rolston if he wants both a Center and a Defenseman...:dunno:

I've watched Rolston since he left Jersey way back when.........and I said every season "I wish we still had him ".........but you know what, he's not been that great for us, and he has a 5 year deal ???

Is Salmela/Greene , 2nd 09, Bergfors enough to get Sutter? I dont know much about him...Maybe we would need to give Corente but if Suter came in he is already signed through 2012 so the need for COrente wouldn't be as great...maybe a later round pick?

If so then we can do 1st, Zubrus, Tedenby for Horton ?

Horton is essentially the same player Arnot is except he is only 24(?)...


Parise/zajac/langs
Elias/Horton/Gio
Shannan/Madden/Rolston
Rup/Holik/Clarkson

Martin/Suter
Oduya/Salv
White/Mottou

I don't want Horton at all (nevermind at that price) and Florida's not going to trade him on this playoff run.

I've watched Rolston since he left Jersey way back when.........and I said every season "I wish we still had him ".........but you know what, he's not been that great for us, and he has a 5 year deal ???

Maybe it is the "take a year to get used to playing here" curse that seems to lurk with every one of the bigger free agents we sign. At least this is what I hope it is.

Maybe it is the "take a year to get used to playing here" curse that seems to lurk with every one of the bigger free agents we sign. At least this is what I hope it is.

I hope so...........but I hoped Zubes would pick it up after his fisrt season with us...but he really stayed about the same:dunno:

I hope so...........but I hoped Zubes would pick it up after his fisrt season with us...but he really stayed about the same:dunno:

Zubrus has been very good in the first 3/4 of the season, its just he is going on a bit of a lousy streak here. He was never a big point producer so I say he was doing his job quite well and is playing like he has played on other teams his whole career. If Rolston plays like he has played his whole career next year then he will be fine. But no one will know if that is going to happen or not.

I doubt that Rolston being put with Elias and Gionta does any better for that line right now. Fact is, Rolston is a sub par even strength player. Rolston lacks the willingness to go into tough spots to battle for pucks and doesn't score in the dirty areas. He also lacks the ability to control the puck without it being taken away.

The past three years Rolston's ES point totals have been: 11, 30, and 28. Zubrus's? 22, 30, 37.

I'm not sure that Rolston makes that line better.

I said a few weeks ago when entertaining the sacrilegious notion that Gionta could still be traded this year that his line hadn't done much of anything since mid-December, and that the team had been living and dying at even strength by the PZL line, which up until Martin's disappearance proved to be just fine.

Nonetheless, I don't think a trade for a forward is in this team's future. It wasn't so long ago where everyone was gushing about how we have the best forward depth in the league, and just because we laid a few stinkjobs against some lesser teams doesn't really change that.

TG pointed out that this team has only won 3 games with PM out of the lineup, those being the bizarre Sharks win where we gave up 5, and 2 shootout wins against a dreadful Tampa. They are absolutely lost without him. As impressive as Parise has been this year, Martin is the more indispensable player to this team as it stands now. That fact unto itself tells you that if a trade is coming it's for a puck-moving defenseman. These past few games we couldn't break out of our own zone, and we constantly turned the puck over in the neutral zone. It's because the d-men have all been moved up one spot in the depth chart. You add someone who becomes the new 2 behind Martin and everyone moves down and then you'll have the opposite effect.

As for the forward situation, the only shakeup that might happen will be in the trade for said D. Zubrus is going nowhere, Rolston is going nowhere. Clarkson, Gionta, and Pandolfo seem to be the likely candidates, depending on who the trade partner(s) might be.

In the meanwhile, my suggestion is to put that guy we signed with the 650 career goals on Patty's line in place of Gio because he kind of has a penchant for finishing. Take him off the penalty kill to keep his legs fresher. Let Gionta and all his forechecking and defensive intangibles that make him so indispensable and untradeable play on Madden's wing.

And Rolston? Yes he's been a disappointment even strength this year, but he hasn't really been put in the role he should be. The problem is he's not a finesse player and doesn't really gel with Patty's style of play so he's been relegated to more of a checking role. The ideal spot for him is occupied by Langs and unless the unforeseeable happens we won't see him there. The positive with him is he's been the only guy to generate any kind of scoring on the 2nd PP unit. Again, something that will greatly benefit with the addition of an offensive d-man.

And the final part of my rant: Brodeur is coming back! Clemmensen, while admirably handling the pressure of keeping the team afloat as the everyday starter, perhaps better than Weekes would, is still crap as a goalie and has been given way too much credit for our success this year. His reaction time is awful and he gives up way too many rebounds. If Weekes loses a job when Brodeur comes back I'll be pretty ******* miffed. Much rather have the guy with a cup win under his belt than the guy who's surrendered 13 in his last 3 games on the bench when we're in the playoffs. It's a lot easier to score goals when you're not playing from behind.

Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Elias-Zubrus-Shanahan
Rolston-Madden-Gionta/Clarkson
Rupp/Pandolfo-Holik-Clarkson/Rupp

+

Martin-Kaberle/Niedermayer/?
Salvador-Oduya
White-Mottau

+

Brodeur
Weekes

=

Stanley Cup

just a thought.......miller is out indefinately w a high ankle sprain so the sabres may be looking for a goalie. and i know the sabres dont make major deals so how bout this:

To NJ: Tim Connolly
To BUF: Scott Clemmensen

Sabres are looking to deal connolly i hear b/c he is an impending ufa and they want to deal him. also clemmer could possibly give them a guy to ride (along with lalime) til the he returns. connolly could then go between patty and gio maybe?

just a thought.......miller is out indefinately w a high ankle sprain so the sabres may be looking for a goalie. and i know the sabres dont make major deals so how bout this:

To NJ: Tim Connolly
To BUF: Scott Clemmensen

Sabres are looking to deal connolly i hear b/c he is an impending ufa and they want to deal him. also clemmer could possibly give them a guy to ride (along with lalime) til the he returns. connolly could then go between patty and gio maybe?
The only issue is Connolly's health. Dude gets injured every time he sneezes. He's a tremendous player and has been clutch in the playoffs for the Sabres, particularly in that series against the Sens.

I still think if we're going to acquire a forward, we have to lose a forward. Sure, we could scratch Rupp, but I think it's good to have a guy like him in the lineup because he has some hockey skill, and he's our only "heavyweight". We need someone to look after Zachy-poo and others.

You don't trade a goalie to a team in the conference, that you might end up playing in the first round. Nope.

As had been said, Rolston has been getting half of his points on the PP the last few years, so playing on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit hes obviously going to suffer. Fact is, Zubrus and Rolston have each averaged around 30 ES points the last few years. Since neither Elias or Rolston are good at playing center, it makes no sense to take Zubrus off of that line. Zubrus is by far the best at playing center out of those 3. Why force Elias into a position hes not comfortable in when hes having such a great year?

As had been said, Rolston has been getting half of his points on the PP the last few years, so playing on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit hes obviously going to suffer. Fact is, Zubrus and Rolston have each averaged around 30 ES points the last few years. Since neither Elias or Rolston are good at playing center, it makes no sense to take Zubrus off of that line. Zubrus is by far the best at playing center out of those 3. Why force Elias into a position hes not comfortable in when hes having such a great year?

Yea, I agree. He is a left wing, not center. You can't say "look at last year, he moved to center and was about a ppg player." No, that's crap. He is notorious for having an excellent second half and it wasn't because he was moved to center, rather, because he was playing with Parise where there is obvious chemistry. It's clear that he and Rolston cannot play together where Rolston is at center.

You don't trade a goalie to a team in the conference, that you might end up playing in the first round. Nope.

miller would prolly be back by then anyways wouldnt he?

miller would prolly be back by then anyways wouldnt he?

if he has a high ankle sprain? Who knows. 8 weeks from now the 1st round would be almost over. I don't understand why we'd want to potentially bail them out and then have to face the goalie we traded.

edit: and don't forget that Miller is borderline anorexic. if it's bad, I don't know that he could stay up on skates for 60+ minutes.

miller would prolly be back by then anyways wouldnt he?

probably right...............plus, we have too many goalies.......if we can trade one to help our team...we should do it

Not that I necessarily agree yet that we should give up on zubrus

but what about with the leafs (ok I know leafs fans seem to think nothing is ever good enough for any of their players but I think this is realistic)

To NJ
Nik Antropov

To Leafs
Bergfors and 3rd
Or

To NJ
Antropov and Kubina

To Leafs
Pandolfo, Greene, Bergfors and 2nd and 3rd?

Maybe we could rob John Davidson for Tkachuk like we did for Salvador last year. ;)

I definitely think a puck moving D-man is priority #1 though.

I don't think it would happen but I could see a deal similar to the deal that brought jamie and joe here in 01. Centered around Zubrus ( I LIKE ZUBS)

I don't think it would happen but I could see a deal similar to the deal that brought jamie and joe here in 01. Centered around Zubrus ( I LIKE ZUBS)

No pun intended?

Also the Sabres are in no position to be trading away Centers when most of the trade proposals Sabres fans put up are so they can get centers. I dont think they would do Connolly for Clemmensen. Not good trading partners IMO.

Maybe Lou could possibly dangle Rolston if he wants both a Center and a Defenseman...:dunno:

your out of your damn mind