Giguere's Disney Vacation Coming To An End?

While his father's death is a valid excuse for his horrendous play this season, it is hard to ignore that he is on the downside of his career (32 years old), his annual salary ($6 million) handcuffs the organizatin's cap space and since turning in a forgettable '08 playoff performance, he has been thoroughly outplayed by his "apprentice."

What does Giguere's future in Anaheim look like? Does he have one?

What does Giguere's future in Anaheim look like?

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While his father's death is a valid excuse for his horrendous play this season, it is hard to ignore that he is on the downside of his career (32 years old), his annual salary ($6 million) handcuffs the organizatin's cap space and since turning in a forgettable '08 playoff performance, he has been thoroughly outplayed by his "apprentice."

What does Giguere's future in Anaheim look like? Does he have one?

oh snap...another one

his father is death..he needs to get over it and he will...just give him time.
if it means give him time for rest of the season so give him (he deserves it) it's not that easy to get over it. maybe someone can do it in few weeks, someone longer.
and what has his age to do with it?he is still young and can be in net in next 8y

jiggy will bounce back and you will be one of the first telling how good is that we have him

While his father's death is a valid excuse for his horrendous play this season, it is hard to ignore that he is on the downside of his career (32 years old), his annual salary ($6 million) handcuffs the organizatin's cap space and since turning in a forgettable '08 playoff performance, he has been thoroughly outplayed by his "apprentice."

What does Giguere's future in Anaheim look like? Does he have one?

Giguere is only 31, he has at least 6 good years left in front of him. Most goalies play at a high level until their late 30s, so I would hardly call Giguere at 31 on the downside of his career.

I doubt he gets moved, Carlyle seems insistent on starting him most nights which indicates they are willing to play through his struggles and hope he bounces back and turn into the old Jiggy.

he has been thoroughly outplayed by his "apprentice."

Not even close to the truth. Hiller has had plenty of dud games this season, just like Giguere. The last LA game and the Tampa game and so on.

The only difference is when Hiller does it everyone shrugs it off as its expected for a young backup to be up and down. When Giguere does it he's suddenly on the "downside" of his career.

Not even close to the truth. Hiller has had plenty of dud games this season, just like Giguere. The last LA game and the Tampa game and so on.

The only difference is when Hiller does it everyone shrugs it off as its expected for a young backup to be up and down. When Giguere does it he's suddenly on the "downside" of his career.

The pivot point for the attitude towards Giguere going downhill was when he signed his last contract, and it's been gathering momentum ever since.

Jiggy will fix himself. Like mentioned, he's only 31.

As far as options go, he *could* be dealt (waiving his NTC, of course), if the Ducks were rebuilding and they wanted to give Hiller full-time duties.

I really don't care one way or another. Its a big decision for the Ducks, but after looking at both sides, I am excited to see this team rebuild.

However, I think Hiller would benefit from having Jiggy still around for a while, and if we're rebuilding the this/next/and the years after, a goalie like Jiggy that could have a hot playoff run could do wonders for this teams success with a young core in front of him.

I'm happy with 60% Jiggy and 40% Hiller.

Tired of this Giguere crap fest. I don't know how some of you can quickly dismiss the guy who has put his whole career into Anaheim and given us the best goaltending we've ever had. Giggy will turn it around, give the guy a chance.

I have not had the opportunity to see Giggy play this year.

Are his statistical abberations a function of clear bad play? Or is it more of an unlucky funk?

I don't think you can take the death of his father lightly. Goaltending is a mental game, so its totally understandable if his concentration is foggy. Getting rid of Giguere now would be heartless, and heartless treatment of players has huge negative effects (breaking apart the dressing room, alarming potential free agents, etc.)

Giguere is only 31, he has at least 6 good years left in front of him. Most goalies play at a high level until their late 30s, so I would hardly call Giguere at 31 on the downside of his career.

I would say that Giguere's game, which relies more on positioning then athleticism, would, if anything, extend his career. Although his dehydration problems are well documented, he also doesn't play the usual 65-70 game load that most starting goalies in the league do.

I doubt he gets moved, Carlyle seems insistent on starting him most nights which indicates they are willing to play through his struggles and hope he bounces back and turn into the old Jiggy.

Statistically, January has always been Giguere's worst month, with his play picking up dramatically after the All-Star break and into the stretch run. He's always been a second-half goaltender and as he's gone, so has the Ducks. Yahoo Stats Link (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/1514/splits;_ylt=AnS3QTjpeAGdSSPGTUdGJBTCfgM6?year=care er)
Keep in mind, we had this same discussion when Gerber was playing well and again when Bryzgalov was playing well. I, personally, don't view this situation as any different.
If anything, I'd be more concerned about the effect of the All-Star game (versus his usual break) will have on his game. But perhaps playing in front of his family in his hometown will help energize him.


Getting rid of Giguere now would be heartless, and heartless treatment of players has huge negative effects (breaking apart the dressing room, alarming potential free agents, etc.)

With Giguere being widely acknowledged as a leader for the Ducks, the effects of this move on the dressing room is something that no one is really taking into account.

Giguere isn't the type of player who is just going to suddenly start sucking and never recover. He's in a slump but he'll come out of it eventually, there is no need to trade him, and he has a NTC anyway. You can plan on Giguere being here at least until Hiller is ready to be a real #1, at which point we'll either have a two goalie system or we will trade Hiller.

I have not had the opportunity to see Giggy play this year.

Are his statistical abberations a function of clear bad play? Or is it more of an unlucky funk?

I don't think you can take the death of his father lightly. Goaltending is a mental game, so its totally understandable if his concentration is foggy. Getting rid of Giguere now would be heartless, and heartless treatment of players has huge negative effects (breaking apart the dressing room, alarming potential free agents, etc.)
The defense has been bad

Giguere has let in alot of very uncharacteristic goals this year.

It's either something mental or he's playing hurt.

Giguere's obviously been having a hard time getting back to starter-type form. Hiller should have the starter spot for a little while, until Giguere starts to string together some consistently good performances. Just because he's struggling is no reason to want to get rid of him now.

Not even close to the truth. Hiller has had plenty of dud games this season, just like Giguere. The last LA game and the Tampa game and so on.

The only difference is when Hiller does it everyone shrugs it off as its expected for a young backup to be up and down. When Giguere does it he's suddenly on the "downside" of his career.
Yup. Hiller's also had some duds. Although dud GAMES have been significantly fewer than Giguere. It's just that he often gives up dud goals.


But Giguere has been letting in some bad goals. I'm not too worried. He's proved himself in the past, I expect him to get through it again.

Downside of his career is ridiculous though. Goalies play much longer than normal skaters. Just look at guys like Hasek, Belfour, etc. They also typically take longer to get into the league. A big part of it is how goaltending is so mental, compared to physical. So it takes more experience to become a good goalie, and then the aging and deterioration of physical skills affects goalies less.

Giguere is also not overpaid. Comparable goalies all make around the same amount or more (Miller, Kiprusoff, Khabibulin, Turco, Vokoun, Lundqvist... only Brodeur and Nabokov are aberrations). Although I could see how you could see the salary as "handcuffing." But I'd think that having 2 6+ million dollar defensemen would be seen as more handcuffing.

With Giguere being widely acknowledged as a leader for the Ducks, the effects of this move on the dressing room is something that no one is really taking into account.

It's not something that comes into play in NHL09. Maybe EA should look into that.

With Giguere being widely acknowledged as a leader for the Ducks, the effects of this move on the dressing room is something that no one is really taking into account.

It's not something that comes into play in NHL09. Maybe EA should look into that.
If the front office decides that the team is fine personnel wise and wants to make a trade to shake things up, it's possible that Giguere's influence could make the shakeup even more effective.

Not that I want them to trade Jiggy. Just saying.

If the front office decides that the team is fine personnel wise and wants to make a trade to shake things up, it's possible that Giguere's influence could make the shakeup even more effective.

Not that I want them to trade Jiggy. Just saying.

It's possible. Anything is possible. But, it's not a move management is remotely likely to make unless they get incredibly desperate, and I don't think they'll reach that level of desperation this season. Either that, or I have a highly incorrect view of the organization's relationship with him, which is possible as well.

I get your point, its a good devil's advocate position, and you're right. I still think it's an idea that has far more merit in NHL09 than in real life, where players and management are human and relationships do come into play.

While his father's death is a valid excuse for his horrendous play this season, it is hard to ignore that he is on the downside of his career (32 years old), his annual salary ($6 million) handcuffs the organizatin's cap space and since turning in a forgettable '08 playoff performance, he has been thoroughly outplayed by his "apprentice."

What does Giguere's future in Anaheim look like? Does he have one?

Not even close to the truth. Hiller has had plenty of dud games this season, just like Giguere. The last LA game and the Tampa game and so on.

The only difference is when Hiller does it everyone shrugs it off as its expected for a young backup to be up and down. When Giguere does it he's suddenly on the "downside" of his career.

I do not agree with you.

We should not burn Guigere for a bad period. On that i fully agree, yet you got to give Cesar what belongs to Cesar and to God what belongs to God.

Hiller played very well. Not all games but most of them (specially lately). And he played better than Guigere. No doubt. figures may exagerate the magnitude of the difference between both, however there was a difference.

As said, Guigere is going through a bad period. And Hiller is doing pretty well. Hiller is not the apprentice but a very decent backup (if not the best of NHL presently). Both still deserve the respect due to a good player and one is hot while the other one is cold.
Then their salary is fixed ... Hiller for 1 year and Guigere for a couple of years ... with different levels implying different responsibilities. That is fixed.

The only conflict is ... which one to play ... with as final objective to get the cup. Which one will best serve this purpose ...

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The same what I think. All people who bash Giguere are unobjective.

There is only one goalie I'd want in a big game...if he wins the Cup again, his HOF resume would suddenly start looking awfully damn good

Think about it...how many goalies have been to multiple cups since Barasso (in 90-91 and 91-92)...I can think of Roy, Osgood, and Hasek (as backup last year)...Roy and Hasek are guaranteed HOF and Osgood could make it on his incredible success (though his stats aren't really good)

And the kicker is...how many Conn Smythe winning goalies aren't in?

Think about it...how many goalies have been to multiple cups since Barasso (in 90-91 and 91-92)...I can think of Roy, Osgood, and Hasek (as backup last year)...Roy and Hasek are guaranteed HOF and Osgood could make it on his incredible success (though his stats aren't really good)



Brodeur?

it is hard to ignore that he is on the downside of his career (32 years old)
Just to get back to this point, I figured I'd do a little number crunching.

So I looked at the 1980-1983 drafts for Fs and Ds, and the 1980-1987 for Gs (I needed some more for sample size). For skaters, I looked at all guys who played over 600 games. For goalies I looked at all guys who played over 400 games. That's 21 goalies, 39 D, and 79 Fs.

I then noted how old they were at the start of their last NHL seasons. It's an approximation of when a player no longer has any game.

So there could be all sorts of errors (biasing by taking guys over ___ games, sample size, just going by how old they were and not looking at how they performed relative to peers or their previous stats), but this is just a rough approximation.

The numbers come out that forwards retire at 32.9, Dmen and 34.6, and goalies at 36. So Giguere should (statistically) have roughly 5 more years in the NHL (the last 1 or 2 might be as a backup).

Doesn't seem like age should be much of a concern.

There is only one goalie I'd want in a big game...if he wins the Cup again, his HOF resume would suddenly start looking awfully damn good

Think about it...how many goalies have been to multiple cups since Barasso (in 90-91 and 91-92)...I can think of Roy, Osgood, and Hasek (as backup last year)...Roy and Hasek are guaranteed HOF and Osgood could make it on his incredible success (though his stats aren't really good)

And the kicker is...how many Conn Smythe winning goalies aren't in?

That's your kicker? Ron Hextall, Bill Ranford, and Mike Vernon say hi. And does Cam Ward really strike you as a HOFer at this point in his career?

Vernon is particularly striking in the case for (or should I say against) Giguere. 385 career wins, 2 cups, 1 Conn Smythe, 1 Jennings, and no HOF. Giguere sits at just over half as many wins and one ring. He'll have to have a second-half of his career that is as good or better than the first to get in IMO. You can argue based on career sv pct or whatever metric you like that Giguere is a better goalie, but he still has a long way to go to get to what is accepted to be HOF-worthy numbers.

On-topic, Hiller seems to be more of a real threat to Giguere's job than Gerber or Bryzgalov ever were, though that's more a function of Giguere's play this season than Hiller's. Hiller at this point looks like he may be capable eventually of doing the job, but he'd definitely benefit from at least another season of job-sharing.

Not even close to the truth. Hiller has had plenty of dud games this season, just like Giguere. The last LA game and the Tampa game and so on.

The only difference is when Hiller does it everyone shrugs it off as its expected for a young backup to be up and down. When Giguere does it he's suddenly on the "downside" of his career.

uhh giguere with a 5.82 GAA and a .800 for that game, 2 goals in 21 minutes....hiller with 2 in 38....

and your most recent game, giguere had a 8.23 GAA and a .714.....they both faced 7 shots, with one difference, hiller stoped all his, 2 goals on 7 shots is embarrassing, hiller should be your starter.....

uhh giguere with a 5.82 GAA and a .800 for that game, 2 goals in 21 minutes....hiller with 2 in 38....

and your most recent game, giguere had a 8.23 GAA and a .714.....they both faced 7 shots, with one difference, hiller stoped all his, 2 goals on 7 shots is embarrassing, hiller should be your starter.....

Giguere: 12-12-4
Hiller: 11-9-1

Tell me exactly how HIller has "thoroughly outplayed" Giguere? You can't argue that Giguere is playing poorly for the last month, but lets not ignore that he was pretty damn good for stretches too.

Giguere: 12-12-4
Hiller: 11-9-1

Tell me exactly how HIller has "thoroughly outplayed" Giguere? You can't argue that Giguere is playing poorly for the last month, but lets not ignore that he was pretty damn good for stretches too.

You realize that general goalie stats would also include GAA and save % right, not just records.

You realize that general goalie stats would also include GAA and save % right, not just records.

win is win...I think we would all agree that if we have goalie with 82w and GAA 5 and 75% we would be happy :)

win is win...I think we would all agree that if we have goalie with 82w and GAA 5 and 75% we would be happy :)

Ok then lets follow your logic. If a win is a win, then a loss is a loss, and a OT loss is an OT loss. So by that standard Giguere has one more win and a lot more of the other two.

Giguere: 12-12-4
Hiller: 11-9-1

Tell me exactly how HIller has "thoroughly outplayed" Giguere? You can't argue that Giguere is playing poorly for the last month, but lets not ignore that he was pretty damn good for stretches too.

Maybe you should post all of the stats that matter when it comes to goalies...

GOALIES: W L OT Sv% GAA
J. Hiller 11 9 1 .930 2.06
J. Giguere 12 12 4 .904 3.08

That sums it up pretty well right there. Yeah wins are all that matters, but Hiller has definitely "thoroughly outplayed" Giguere so far. Now I'm not really all for trading Jiggy right now. However, if he continues to struggle I wouldn't be opposed to doing it at the deadline. Personally I'd rather trade Giguere then Pronger. However, my point was that Nikko is right. You can't say that the goalies have played similar because of their records. Hopefully Jiggy steps it up, because when he's on, he's definitely one of the best in the league.

Honestly though, I think people are really worrying to much. We've played 48 games... That's only 6 games past half way, and yet our season is over? Give me a break. Honestly I'm tired of the "trade Pronger and S.Niedermayer" ********. When Selanne comes back we should have two excellent lines to score, a checking line, and a fourth line. As long as Carlyle doesn't **** up again and put Ryan on the 4th line. However, this team HAS to have another defensemen to even think about making a run in the playoffs (if we make it). Cut Huskins or Hedican, and bring in a top 4 defensemen. Personally if we keep losing like this 10 or 12 more games, I'm all for firing Carlyle. Call me stupid if you want, but he deserves it at this point. Ryan has dominated since being called up, and Morrison has sucked the majority of the year, and yet Ryan's ice time is lower then Morrison's. I'm all for bringing in another GM too, if Murray doesn't do something. It's pretty sickening how he can watch this team plummet the way it has.

Here's a Giguere/All Star related musing.

Now depending on how Giguere deals with grief, playing him more as a Duck might help him get better. But if he plays and he sucks, that could make it even worse.

But now he's going to the ASG, a game notorious for having no defense. If he gets completely lit up, likely in front of large amounts of family and friends no less (Montreal), could that screw him up? Like Tommy Salo screwed up?

Hiller has been better so far, there is no question, everyone feels bad for Giguere and we know what he's capable of...

BUT

We can't keep giving away points due to mediocre goaltending, if JS doesn't get it going within the first couple games of the break you have to consider a switch for the remainder of the season

Even if you're one of the haters, I can't imagine anyone hearing the crowd roar for Giguere and seeing the smile on his face and not at least feeling good for him.

He got scored on by Ovechkin however, clearly back to his first half ways.

I want to see some angry Giggy slashing shins though, love that emotion. He needs to take out some western dmen in front of his crease to make this weekend complete.

remember what happened to nashville

mason outplayed vokoun so they let vokoun walk, kept mason who didnt play as well the following year

giguere is still better than hiller and under contract to boot. itd be better to keep him around and let hiller walk if he asks for too much this summer

remember what happened to nashville

mason outplayed vokoun so they let vokoun walk, kept mason who didnt play as well the following year

giguere is still better than hiller and under contract to boot. itd be better to keep him around and let hiller walk if he asks for too much this summer

Hiller is signed through next season.

remember what happened to nashville

mason outplayed vokoun so they let vokoun walk, kept mason who didnt play as well the following year

giguere is still better than hiller and under contract to boot. itd be better to keep him around and let hiller walk if he asks for too much this summer

Firesale

Firesale

Exactly, there were other circumstances at foot, not just Mason playing better than Vokoun.
The questions that later rose about Nashville's ownership led to the team saying goodbye to Vokoun, Kariya, Timonen and Hartnell.

Considering he took less than he could have gotten elsewhere, mostly for the sake of his son's medical needs, it'd be pretty damn awful to trade him somewhere else just because he's having a rough year (coinciding with a great personal loss) after 7-8 really excellent ones. It would be the most low-class move this organization has ever made.

This is why I'm very cynical about fans who talk about how such-and-such former player was disloyal. Because fans on the whole have ZERO loyalty to anything but the jersey. They don't really give a rat's ass about the guys wearing them.

Considering he took less than he could have gotten elsewhere, mostly for the sake of his son's medical needs, it'd be pretty damn awful to trade him somewhere else just because he's having a rough year (coinciding with a great personal loss) after 7-8 really excellent ones. It would be the most low-class move this organization has ever made.

This is why I'm very cynical about fans who talk about how such-and-such former player was disloyal. Because fans on the whole have ZERO loyalty to anything but the jersey. They don't really give a rat's ass about the guys wearing them.

I would hardly say Giguere took considerably less to stay in Anaheim. He's like the fourth highest paid Goaltender in the NHL right now. Plus he has a "No Trade" clause so I think it will be hard to get rid of him. The bottom line is the guy is paid a premium and better start playing like it or the Duck is out of the playoffs. We are stuck with him regardless of performance until 2011 as a backup or started unless he gets waived ala Gerber.

I would hardly say Giguere took considerably less to stay in Anaheim. He's like the fourth highest paid Goaltender in the NHL right now.

A player of his playoff pedigree and consistent performance in the regular season, coming off a Cup win, should have been able to net a fairly significant sum of money above what he got. He certainly could have landed a Khabibulin-like offer, adjusted for inflation.

For chrissakes, the guy was just about the lone bright spot for the team for those dark years, and now after a poor half-season, when he's dealing with great personal loss, people are ready to kick him to the curb?

It's starting to make me wonder if I've actually been too hard on Kariya for always looking out for #1 ... as in, go ahead and be as mercenary you want, because the fans will turn on you in a heartbeat anyway. Damn you all for making me hate Kariya less!

It's starting to make me wonder if I've actually been too hard on Kariya for always looking out for #1 ... as in, go ahead and be as mercenary you want, because the fans will turn on you in a heartbeat anyway. Damn you all for making me hate Kariya less!


Take it back right now!

A player of his playoff pedigree and consistent performance in the regular season, coming off a Cup win, should have been able to net a fairly significant sum of money above what he got. He certainly could have landed a Khabibulin-like offer, adjusted for inflation.

For chrissakes, the guy was just about the lone bright spot for the team for those dark years, and now after a poor half-season, when he's dealing with great personal loss, people are ready to kick him to the curb?


agree with you...Im trying to tell this for a looong time

I said it then and I'll say it now...we should have moved Giggy and kept Bryz.

It's starting to make me wonder if I've actually been too hard on Kariya for always looking out for #1 ... as in, go ahead and be as mercenary you want, because the fans will turn on you in a heartbeat anyway. Damn you all for making me hate Kariya less!

Looks like someone has been hitting the bottle earlier than normal. The game starts at 7 pm.

I said it then and I'll say it now...we should have moved Giggy and kept Bryz.

Right. And the Ducks probably wouldn't have won the Stanley Cup.

I said it then and I'll say it now...we should have moved Giggy and kept Bryz.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh::laugh:

mabe now ??

it's good to have 2 good goalies !