Gomez and Rafalski

Looking at our team now, would you have wanted to keep either?

no no no never

certainly not at the price for either of them

keep them.........yess,
pay them as much as those other teams offered/pay them ...NO

I just didnt like letting them walk away, with us getting nothing in return

Rafalski yes, gomez defiantly not.

I'd take Rafalski. We don't need Gomez the way our top two lines are producing.

raffi yea prtobably cause if you look at what defenseman are being paid its not too bad but not gomez

if we had raffi though i doubt we would have rolston and salvador

keep them.........yess,
pay them as much as the teams offered/pay them ...NO

I just didnt like letting them walk away, with us getting nothing in return

+1

Good players that you hate to see leave, but if dopey GMs are going to grossly overpay them, there's not much you can do.

In any event, Gomez's contract is putting a HURT on the Rangers. The only thing the Rangers have a snowball's chance in hell of winning over the next 5 years is the Metro Ice Challenge.

So while I was once pizzed he went there (see: my handle), I'm actually pretty happy about it now. Funny how life turns out sometimes.

+1

Good players that you hate to see leave, but if dopey GMs are going to grossly overpay them, there's not much you can do.

In any event, Gomez's contract is putting a HURT on the Rangers. The only thing the Rangers have a snowball's chance in hell of winning over the next 5 years is the Metro Ice Challenge.

So while I was once pizzed he went there (see: my handle), I'm actually pretty happy about it now. Funny how life turns out sometimes.

Yeah, the day Gomer signed over there, well it really did suk, and last season also suked, it was tough getting through last year.......cause every time we played the Rags, Gomer had to "prove" we made a mistake letting him "go", and every time you turned on MSG...there he was :shakehead
Raffi, well I didnt notice him gone, cause he was far enough away.

I would have liked to have kept Rafalski, but not for that price. And Blowmez can suck it.

Neither, Rafalski sucks in Detroit, **** him.

i wouldnt take either of them at their current price/contract

Neither, Rafalski sucks in Detroit, **** him.

You don't have to but any chance you'd elaborate on that?

You don't have to but any chance you'd elaborate on that?

C'mon slick, your own fans complain about the guy. He's had good games here and there, but I didn't like him when he was here so why would I want him back.

Everytime i whistled in my TV's direction during a Devils game, Rafalski fell over.

Everytime i whistled in my TV's direction during a Devils game, Rafalski fell over.

:laugh::laugh:

C'mon slick, your own fans complain about the guy. He's had good games here and there, but I didn't like him when he was here so why would I want him back.

Fans complain about every player and the Wings don't win the cup without Rafalski so I'd say he has had a few more good games than bad ones. Regardless, I'm not gonna drag this out on your board.

Fans complain about every player and the Wings don't win the cup without Rafalski so I'd say he has had a few more good games than bad ones. Regardless, I'm not gonna drag this out on your board.
Rafalski's the same player for Detroit he was for New Jersey. Borderline #1 defenseman, great offensive skills, great 1v1 skills, average defense otherwise.

Fans complain about every player and the Wings don't win the cup without Rafalski so I'd say he has had a few more good games than bad ones. Regardless, I'm not gonna drag this out on your board.

No say what you have to, lively debate is always welcomed bud. Trust me, I got into it with people here over Rafalski when he played in Jersey. Thought he was small, knocked off the puck way too easily and didn't bring what we needed. And he's that same player, so that's why I don't want him back.

No say what you have to, lively debate is always welcomed bud. Trust me, I got into it with people here over Rafalski when he played in Jersey. Thought he was small, knocked off the puck way too easily and didn't bring what we needed.

In the Wings system the way he moves the puck out of the zone is what really makes him valuable to the team. Believe it or not but he's all but taken over the QB duties from Lidstrom with dictating the play in the situation. Rafalski will obviously not replace Lidstrom as no one can but when Nick does retire the way Rafalski plays the game will make the transition easier. People harp on the fact that he gets burned wide (which seems to only happen early in the season) but in crunch time during the cup run he made big play after big play while having a debilitating hip injury that hampered his skating.

He's not a #1 defensemen but he's proven through 3 cup runs now that he's a important cog in filling that #2 or #3 role and playing against the other teams best. Sure he's paired with Lidstrom or Stevens but the way he complimented them is why he's so good. He doesn't make his partner better but he enhances their abilities.

So while I don't believe he prospered as much when put into that #1 role on the Devils his abilities as a #2 cannot be denied.

Rafalski's the same player for Detroit he was for New Jersey. Borderline #1 defenseman, great offensive skills, great 1v1 skills, average defense otherwise.

Depends what kind of defense you're talking about. PKing, shotblocking type defense? I agree. But the type of defense that helps clear the zone and standing up people in the neutral zone while pushing players to the outside? I think that's where his defensive skills are apparent.

And before I forget, even though Rafalski isn't on the top PK pairing the statistics show that he's a very efficient PKer.

I'm not trying to tout this guy as a top 10 defensemen and since you guys watched him for years I'm not gonna change your mind but the Detroit fans who overly criticize him are being a little bit shortsighted.

So while I don't believe he prospered as much when put into that #1 role on the Devils his abilities as a #2 cannot be denied.

exactly. we needed to put that money that he has with other needs, especially since he wasnt a true number one.

Depends what kind of defense you're talking about. PKing, shotblocking type defense? I agree. But the type of defense that helps clear the zone and standing up people in the neutral zone while pushing players to the outside? I think that's where his defensive skills are apparent.

And before I forget, even though Rafalski isn't on the top PK pairing the statistics show that he's a very efficient PKer.

I'm not trying to tout this guy as a top 10 defensemen and since you guys watched him for years I'm not gonna change your mind but the Detroit fans who overly criticize him are being a little bit shortsighted.
He's a fantastic transitional defenseman, assuming he has a chance to get a puck away quickly. As a sustained pressure defenseman he's below average, and if the forechecking forwards can get to him while he's got the puck deep in his own end, he's prone to turnovers.

Don't misunderstand me. Rafalski's is one of two jersey's I own, and I've owned it since he was a rookie. He was better than Niedermayer for most of the years both of them were here, in my opinion. But he's got weaknesses in his game that make it difficult to rely on him as the 25 minute guy.

Don't misunderstand me. Rafalski's is one of two jersey's I own, and I've owned it since he was a rookie. He was better than Niedermayer for most of the years both of them were here, in my opinion. But he's got weaknesses in his game that make it difficult to rely on him as the 25 minute guy.

No, I get you. Rafalski plays 25 minutes on Detroit but on the Wings when you have Lidstrom, Stuart and Kronwall eating up the rest of the time it takes a lot of pressure off of him. Which is why I think he's even better in Detroit since the way he plays the game is exactly how Detroit plays.

No, I get you. Rafalski plays 25 minutes on Detroit but on the Wings when you have Lidstrom, Stuart and Kronwall eating up the rest of the time it takes a lot of pressure off of him. Which is why I think he's even better in Detroit since the way he plays the game is exactly how Detroit plays.

i wonder why that is

In the Wings system the way he moves the puck out of the zone is what really makes him valuable to the team. Believe it or not but he's all but taken over the QB duties from Lidstrom with dictating the play in the situation. Rafalski will obviously not replace Lidstrom as no one can but when Nick does retire the way Rafalski plays the game will make the transition easier. People harp on the fact that he gets burned wide (which seems to only happen early in the season) but in crunch time during the cup run he made big play after big play while having a debilitating hip injury that hampered his skating.

He's not a #1 defensemen but he's proven through 3 cup runs now that he's a important cog in filling that #2 or #3 role and playing against the other teams best. Sure he's paired with Lidstrom or Stevens but the way he complimented them is why he's so good. He doesn't make his partner better but he enhances their abilities.

So while I don't believe he prospered as much when put into that #1 role on the Devils his abilities as a #2 cannot be denied.

No and they never have been......I always think he's a GREAT #2 defenseman........but we don't have a Stevens or Lidstrom here so therefore he'll be exposed more and that is why I said what I said.

Actually you said he sucks in Detroit. I was explaining why he doesn't. ;)

Actually you said he sucks in Detroit. I was explaining why he doesn't. ;)

no the **** him part lol

i think raf is a bit over rated, he used to kill me with turnin the puck over 7/10 times he touched it. And his 'deflectable shot' is also 'blockable'!!! which is why he shot it right into Dmen's legs all the time!

Scott Gomez has been nothing short of a revelation for the Garden Boys of Madison Square. Did anyone see the goal and hand full of assists he has piled up this year. Truly inspiring stuff. It just goes to show you that if you have alot of style to your game, and there is a GM itching to spend money thinking it will rot, you too can become one of the highest paid players in the sport. It makes Al happy.

Trautwig, you never disappoint.

Just glad to be apart of the finest business in professional sports.

Scott Gomez has been nothing short of a revelation for the Garden Boys of Madison Square. Did anyone see the goal and hand full of assists he has piled up this year. Truly inspiring stuff. It just goes to show you that if you have alot of style to your game, and there is a GM itching to spend money thinking it will rot, you too can become one of the highest paid players in the sport. It makes Al happy.

Nice

Nice

jeez even Al taking shots at Sather.

Rafalski's the same player for Detroit he was for New Jersey. Borderline #1 defenseman, great offensive skills, great 1v1 skills, average defense otherwise.

impressive that we found him undrafted.

impressive that we found him undrafted.

Lou Lams = genious

Well i was brushing Ron Duguay's hair earlier today inside the splendiferous Hallowed Madison Square Garden, and we got to talking. I Al Trautwig being a hockey archeologist, listened and brushed. Ronny is the hockey doppelganger of Jon Bon Jovi, so John Giannone sometimes has a hard time containing his girlish glee in his presence, it's quite a scene.

Ken Daneyko once said to me something about the team he was once played for. What he said, dont remember, what team did did he play for? no clue. While we're at it who's Ken Daneyko?

------------------------

On a serious note, NHL Gamecenter online is great!

:biglaugh: best start to a post ever.

"so i was brushing Ron Dugay's hair earlier today..."

i actually see Dugay at work occasionally
his son plays for Don Bosco so he watches the games.
watta tool.

Well i was brushing Ron Duguay's hair earlier today inside the splendiferous Hallowed Madison Square Garden, and we got to talking. I Al Trautwig being a hockey archeologist, listened and brushed. Ronny is the hockey doppelganger of Jon Bon Jovi, so John Giannone sometimes has a hard time containing his girlish glee in his presence, it's quite a scene.

Ken Daneyko once said to me something about the team he was once played for. What he said, dont remember, what team did did he play for? no clue. While we're at it who's Ken Daneyko?


:laugh:

Best one evar!

I would take Rafalski for no more than 4 mill.

Ignoring their contracts...Rafalski yes, Gomez lol no. Without a salary cap I think we would still have Raf. He's not a #1 defenceman, but neither is Martin. The defence is still a giant hole in this team and it will kill us in the playoffs.

He's not a #1 defensemen but he's proven through 3 cup runs now that he's a important cog in filling that #2 or #3 role and playing against the other teams best. Sure he's paired with Lidstrom or Stevens but the way he complimented them is why he's so good. He doesn't make his partner better but he enhances their abilities.

So while I don't believe he prospered as much when put into that #1 role on the Devils his abilities as a #2 cannot be denied.

Exactly. Rafalski is probably the best complimentary dman in the league. He complimented Stevens perfected and seems to be doing the same for Lidstrom. Since the Devils don't have a superstar dman, Rafalski's wouldn't be worth what Detroit is paying him in NJ. It'll be interesting to see what Wings fans think of Rafalski once Lidstrom retires and he has to carry a pairing on his own.

Martin and Rafalski played very well together. Great puck-moving pair. They had weaknesses against a hard forecheck, but if they ever got the puck it was gone and in transition in seconds.

Exactly. Rafalski is probably the best complimentary dman in the league. He complimented Stevens perfected and seems to be doing the same for Lidstrom. Since the Devils don't have a superstar dman, Rafalski's wouldn't be worth what Detroit is paying him in NJ. It'll be interesting to see what Wings fans think of Rafalski once Lidstrom retires and he has to carry a pairing on his own.

That sir is when we will witness the demise of the Red Wings IMO.

If you remember last season when Lidstrom was injured and missing from their lineup for 7/8 games, the Wings lost 6 games and had 2 or 3 ot/so losses.

I'm not saying they'll be terrible, they'll still be competative, but they won't be blowing out teams and running away with the Central division like they have for around 15 years.

What a player Lidstrom is, superb player.

That sir is when we will witness the demise of the Red Wings IMO.

If you remember last season when Lidstrom was injured and missing from their lineup for 7/8 games, the Wings lost 6 games and had 2 or 3 ot/so losses.

I'm not saying they'll be terrible, they'll still be competative, but they won't be blowing out teams and running away with the Central division like they have for around 15 years.

What a player Lidstrom is, superb player.
Detroit will remain a force for as long as Ken Holland is their GM.

Detroit will remain a force for as long as Ken Holland is their GM.

Yup. They draft and develop prospects to well to fall off. They're just like us. They're like cockroaches.

As much as any devils fan wouldnt admit it, the Devs offense would be ridiculous if Gomez were on this team.

But then again, im pretty druinkk so this might beonglin in the drunk thread, whichever you prefer.

As much as any devils fan wouldnt admit it, the Devs offense would be ridiculous if Gomez were on this team.

But then again, im pretty druinkk so this might beonglin in the drunk thread, whichever you prefer.

Well, the point of this thread, is had we kept Gomez we wouldn't have the same team we have now. You're excused though. :)

Rafalski, yes, Gomez, no. Contracts ignored of course.

We miss the transition game that Raffi brought, his PP skills and his offensive abilities in general. I like to think that if he had stayed, Sutter would of got a hell of a lot out of him. He's just the type of offensive d-man that Sutter would like to have. He has shortfalls, but then what defenceman doesn't?

Gomez is a whole different beast. He's lazy, un-motivated and is very predictable. I think he would of clashed with Sutter and would of probably been shipped out of here for less than his market value. He isn't a #1 centre, he can't score goals consistently and he cannot be relied on for leadership skills. Zubrus and Rolston are far superior 2-way players, classic Devils players.

As much as any devils fan wouldnt admit it, the Devs offense would be ridiculous if Gomez were on this team.

If we had Rafalski last year no way we go down to the Rangers in five games. We might have even beaten them. In fact if he was on this team this year we would be easily the class of the Atlantic and right behind Boston.

Everyone says he needs a stud partner to be good but I thought his best Devils season was his last when I think White was his partner, he had 8 goals and 47 assists and his 55 points is a career high - all done without Stevens and Lidstrom. It's like - and non-hockey related - when everyone said Michael Jordan carried Scottie Pippen and Pippen wasn't that good and then when Jordon retires the first time if it wasn't for a lousy ref call Pippen would have carried the Bulls to the finals and a shot at four in a row. And I always thought that season was his best, his first season without Jordon.

People tend to take the position that only one player can be great and if he is then his sidekick so to speak just reaps the benefits, without giving thought that hey, both players were great, nothing says that can't happen, but one is greater than the other and this tends to overshadow or give the lesser star a bad rap.

Something I keep seeing again and again with Rafalski.

Martin, Oduya and Greene are all headed around 30pts or less this season and if we keep our O-Dmen as is we ain't winning no cup.

But if we still had Rafalski, we might be able to get away with no more changes.

i actually see Dugay at work occasionally
his son plays for Don Bosco so he watches the games.
watta tool.

Bosco?

Is he any good, or is he caught up in his own vanity? :sarcasm:

The day Scott Gomez left the Devils was the best day I remember in recent history as a Devil fan. I just couldn't bear this player anymore, as it was clear to me he was doing more harm than good to the Devils.

Rafalski is another story. If I could lock him to a fair contract, I would do it. He may not be a true first line D, but he'd still a nice addition to our top-four.

Zubrus at $3.4M>>>>>> Gomez at $7.1M

I never wanted Rafalski to go, but he wasn't worth that price.

Gomez is worth half of what he's making.

The thing is that if we had signed Rafalski last year then we wouldn't have had the cap space to have signed Rolston this year.

No say what you have to, lively debate is always welcomed bud. Trust me, I got into it with people here over Rafalski when he played in Jersey. Thought he was small, knocked off the puck way too easily and didn't bring what we needed. And he's that same player, so that's why I don't want him back.


Right, the last thing we needed then or now is a top 2 defensmen who can move the puck and play 24+ mins a night.

Zubrus at $3.4M>>>>>> Gomez at $7.1M

I wonder what Jonathon. thinks of the Zubrus contract now. He seemed to be the biggest critic of it when it was given out.

I wonder what Jonathon. thinks of the Zubrus contract now. He seemed to be the biggest critic of it when it was given out.

I forgot he even existed. Thanks for that.

I wonder what Jonathon. thinks of the Zubrus contract now. He seemed to be the biggest critic of it when it was given out.

i know most dont think highly of johnathon but unless he goes on a tirade he usually tells it like it is. i remember teh one thing he said about zubrus is that he is never going to live up to his potential from when he first came into the league. maybe that is true, i dont know, but the one thing i remember he said that i (and i think probably all of us would) completely disagree with is that he is soft and takes shifts off. maybe that were true but not with us. he has been an animal. he hits everything that moves (though not lately, he isnt finishing his checks) and is always working hard and backchecking

i know most dont think highly of johnathon but unless he goes on a tirade he usually tells it like it is. i remember teh one thing he said about zubrus is that he is never going to live up to his potential from when he first came into the league. maybe that is true, i dont know, but the one thing i remember he said that i (and i think probably all of us would) completely disagree with is that he is soft and takes shifts off. maybe that were true but not with us. he has been an animal. he hits everything that moves (though not lately, he isnt finishing his checks) and is always working hard and backchecking

Yeah I think Jonathon is a very fair poster and I have nothing against him. Now that I'm looking through old threads about Zubrus, I think I may have mixed up Jonathon with another poster.

$14+ to Drury and Gomez, ROFL!
Zajac has stepped up his game this year, he's playing so well defensively and offensively; I'd go so far as to say he's better than Drury and Gomez. But, if only he could score on a damn breakaway!

As for Rafalski, when he signed for the Wings for that kind of money, I wasn't upset to see him go. We all understood that he'd have to take less to keep playing in NJ. Which shows what kind of team players that Elias and Marty are. Though how Det could fit Raf in their cap I don't really understand.

Rafalski would look very good on this team right now.

Rafalski would look very good on this team right now.

At the same time, that means no Rolston and/or Zubrus.

Rafalski would look very good on this team right now.

Yes he would, but we would have a different looking team if we signed him.

Yes he would, but we would have a different looking team if we signed him.

http://integratedsupplements.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/05/ice_cream_on_black_2.jpg

http://integratedsupplements.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/05/ice_cream_on_black_2.jpg

http://www.americanhockeyfan.com/uploaded_images/1charmin-bear-717426.jpg

We'd be looking at ice cream and toilet paper?? That ice cream and toilet paper would get us further in the playoffs than the current defense. :sarcasm:

If we could have kept Rafalski for what he was currently making or ever slightly less (4 million even), I think we would have done it.

We'd be looking at ice cream and toilet paper?? That ice cream and toilet paper would get us further in the playoffs than the current defense. :sarcasm:

If we could have kept Rafalski for what he was currently making or ever slightly less (4 million even), I think we would have done it.
That's what Lou tried to do. He offered him an extension of the contract he had, but didn't offer him any kind of raise.

That's what Lou tried to do. He offered him an extension of the contract he had, but didn't offer him any kind of raise.

He was getting 4.2 and Lou offered 4.4. I'm just saying I wish he would have accepted it for the good of the team and would have kept us that much more competitive. I'm not saying he did anything wrong, just I wish, as a devils fan, he took a step back and looked at the bigger picture here, to bring the cup back here. But, he won anyway, so good for him.

He was getting 4.2 and Lou offered 4.4. I'm just saying I wish he would have accepted it for the good of the team and would have kept us that much more competitive. I'm not saying he did anything wrong, just I wish, as a devils fan, he took a step back and looked at the bigger picture here, to bring the cup back here. But, he won anyway, so good for him.

well for him, he made a pretty good decision. he got paid alot, gets to play in his home state for his favorite team when he was a kid and he won the cup.

well for him, he made a pretty good decision. he got paid alot, gets to play in his home state for his favorite team when he was a kid and he won the cup.
Can't fault him.

Can't fault him.

If I played for the Red Wings for a bunch of years, and became a free agent, and the Devils offered me a contract + a bunch of money = I'm there...................Raffi did what most of us would've done, thats all

I was stunned when the news came across that Rafalski signed with Detroit. And I would take him back in a heart beat ignoring salaries.

As for Gomez no way. He is IMO, a selfish hockey player. Not selfish in the puckhog type way (we all know he can't score in a whorehouse), but selfish in that he doesn't strike me as a team first type guy. I look at the current roster and I can't find a player on it who isn't a team first guy. I think taking one of those guys out (presumably Zubrus) and replacing him with Gomez would mess with Chemistry and the team wouldn't be as good.

Can't fault him.

nope, and i never did. i understand and appreciate his motives. unlike gomez who completely betrayed the orginazation

nope, and i never did. i understand and appreciate his motives. unlike gomez who completely betrayed the orginazation

This is why I don't understand all the hatred towards Niedermayer. Scott didn't betray us either. I know people are gonna say he waited too long to make a decision, but obviously it was a really tough choice for him. It means he was really mulling it over, and ultimately he wanted to go win a cup with his brother, and he did. Good for him. I have no problem with Nieds, same for Raffy.

Good players that you hate to see leave, but if dopey GMs are going to grossly overpay them, there's not much you can do.I have no argument that Glenn Sather is a dopey GM, but Ken Holland is the GM that signed Brian Rafalski. I must point out that Rafalski helped the Detroit Red Wings win the Stanley Cup. I affix great value to doing such a thing.

Rafalski is also currently 2nd among NHL defensemen in scoring with 51 PTS (8 G, 43 A.)



certainly not at the price for either of themRafalski may have taken less money to stay in New Jersey than he got in Detroit.

This is why I don't understand all the hatred towards Niedermayer. Scott didn't betray us either. I know people are gonna say he waited too long to make a decision, but obviously it was a really tough choice for him. It means he was really mulling it over, and ultimately he wanted to go win a cup with his brother, and he did. Good for him. I have no problem with Nieds, same for Raffy.

Dude, it's not like he became a UFA all of a sudden and had to make a decision. He had a whole lockout year to decide what he was gonna do, and all of June to make up his decision wether he was gonna play with his brother or not.

I'm sure it was a tough choice for him, but it's not like he didn't have time to think it through.

He made up his mind on July 2:nd, and by then we were doomed. That's all his fault. He totally forgot about the organization that brought him up and made him the player he is. That's why I'm pissed at him and why he can go **** himself!

I don´t know, DS. Yes, you do have a valid point in saying he could have made up his mind, whether he wanted to continue or not in the off-season. But there are so many considerations that have to be taken into account. There, obviously, was his family. Money was not an issue, since we appeared to have offered him the maximum. He did not leave on bad terms, and if some people think he screwed Lou over for whatever transpired a few years ago, ok, that is their opinion. I, for my part, do not buy into that.

He just took his time, weighed the options, talked it over with his family and decided to leave. Yes, after his decision to leave, we were pretty much screwed because there were not many options available. But, Lou deserves as much blame, if not more so, than Scott Niedermayer.

Lou got us into that mess, by severely overpaying washed-up Ds. He got us out of the mess at one point, but it did cost us something, maybe even a cup.


As for Rafs and Gomez...I believe Rafalski would be dynamite right now especially for the PP with Rolston, but hey, we would not have had enough moeny for him anyway. He is overpaid, that will be felt in the last 2 3 years of his contract, but since he helped them win a cup, the move already paid off.

Gomez...to hell with him

Gomez was my least favorite Devil when he was making 2.2 per year (or somewhere around there) so no further explaination needed there.

As for Rafalski, I think he is a very good player but it became painfully obvious after the 2007 playoffs (actually 2004 and 2006 as well) that the Devils needed to get a lot bigger, especially on the back end. By letting Raffi and Gomez walk, Lou cleared up the cap space he needed to do a quick 1 year re-tooling of the roster. Thanks to Brodeur, most didn't even realize it was a re-tooling year until after we we're eliminated in the 1st round.

i would keep rafalski if he were getting 4 mill a season. no more. gomez def not. parise is ten times the player gomez is. / Gomez only showed hunger his first two years

I remember langenbrunner making a comment saying that out of respect to lou and the devils organization, he would never sign with the rangers. That is why jamie is a true devil IMO and currently the captain. It felt like gomez was just here to play and collect a paycheck while the guys on the team now are hungry for the cup.