NHL.com - Parise could be first Devil to score 50

I think that this deserved its own thread.


"Every year, I just want to do better than I did the year before and things just happen to be going really well right now," Parise said. "You don't want to look too far ahead or get too excited about anything, so I just want to keep doing what I've been doing. If it happens that I score 50 goals, it'll be awesome."


"That's what is great about this organization," Parise said. "No one puts any pressure on anybody to go out and score goals. That makes it so easy to play. The scoring is always spread out and, really, that's the secret to winning hockey games. A lot of guys are playing very well and every line is chipping in."



Full Article: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=403743&navid=DL|NHL|home

Devil for life he is.

Devil for life he is.
I think that's a fair assumption.

Anything can happen, but Lou goes out of his way to retain the special ones. Brodeur, Stevens, Parise. I think he would have given each of them anything to stay.

I think that's a fair assumption.

Anything can happen, but Lou goes out of his way to retain the special ones. Brodeur, Stevens, Parise. I think he would have given each of them anything to stay.

yeah I'd say so........plus the way he was grinning ear to ear to get Parise.........I wish I had draft day video of that.

Parise is my boy.
http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/84273584.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19346E4C5E9CA07326151EF06ED15A89D9E 8F198085993A39DE

Player Team Pos GP G A P P/G
1 Evgeni Malkin PIT C 44 17 49 66 1.50
2 Sidney Crosby PIT C 44 17 40 57 5 1.30
3 Alexander Ovechkin WSH L 42 27 27 54 1.29
4 Marc Savard BOS C 43 14 38 52 1.21
5 Zach Parise NJD L 43 25 25 50 1.16
6 Pavel Datsyuk DET C 42 19 31 50 1.19
7 Patrik Elias NJD L 43 19 31 50 1.16

Yeah, Patty's my boy, too.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/83770198.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193003A50471BAAE0D50DBBA7EA55F1D6F8 8F198085993A39DE

I just can´t help it, but all this praise of Parise brings this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NeRoSFZWb) dialog to my mind... It suits Parise as well.

Hockey Commentator: Well, Ron Manager, once again the pace and the tempo of that first period totally dictated by the boy wonder, Zach Parise.

Ron Manager: Cor, Zach Parise, you know? Paris´, isn’t it? Mmm? Zach-Pack? Mmm? Oh! Isn’t it? You know, marvellous.

Tommy: Is he the new Kirk Muller?

Ron Manager: Is Kirk Muller the old Zach Parise? But Zach-Pack. Precocious talent, isn’t he? Mmm? Ooh, got it all, you know? Speed, acceleration, sweet wrist shot, all the tricks - the dummy, the drop of the shoulder, the shimmy, nutmeg, jiggery-pokery, hocus pocus, abracadabra, I wanna reach out and grab ya. Steve Miller Band? Spin Doctors? Ooh, very similar.



Probably brit and maybe Swedes are the ones who knows this, but nevertheless the dialog fits :laugh:

Hmmm, jumpers for goal posts, cor! Hmmm! Isn't it?

Parise is awesome.

He is no Mike York though :sarcasm:

I think that's a fair assumption.

Anything can happen, but Lou goes out of his way to retain the special ones. Brodeur, Stevens, Parise. I think he would have given each of them anything to stay.

I really thought the same thing about Kirk Muller.....:(

Here's hoping for 50 (or shatters it with 55), but I'm going to guess he ties Gionta at 48.

I really thought the same thing about Kirk Muller.....:(
As I say, anything can happen. As I recall, Kirk butted heads with Lou, and so out he went.

As I say, anything can happen. As I recall, Kirk butted heads with Lou, and so out he went.

Or the Wild could come in with a massive offer. God forbid.

Or the Wild could come in with a massive offer. God forbid.
Not something that strikes me as likely. At least not soon.

51...Go Zach Go!!!

Not going to lie Zach strikes me as a guy who wouldn't mind bolting if things turned sour here after Brodeur. Not saying he will or necessarily is that guy. I know he has great leadership qualities but i also think he's a guy that loves to and wants to win and being a in a losing situation that was still looking bleak would make him to want to leave. Flame Shield Go!

Or the Wild could come in with a massive offer. God forbid.

Well, he'll be an RFA at the end of this contract so I say bring it.

Not going to lie Zach strikes me as a guy who wouldn't mind bolting if things turned sour here after Brodeur. Not saying he will or necessarily is that guy. I know he has great leadership qualities but i also think he's a guy that loves to and wants to win and being a in a losing situation that was still looking bleak would make him to want to leave. Flame Shield Go!
I don't think you're wrong, but I also don't think the Devils franchise is about to collapse into obscurity, so I don't think it will be an issue.

I don't think you're wrong, but I also don't think the Devils franchise is about to collapse into obscurity, so I don't think it will be an issue.

I don't think it will either I'm just saying if it does.

N00b 'q.'

What is the current contract Zach is signed to? How much longer do we have control of him? Will he be a RFA or URFA at the end of his contract?

Well, he'll be an RFA at the end of this contract so I say bring it.

Yeah, it wont be the next contract where you lose him, it would be the one after that. But the RFA thing isnt all roses and kittens either, because there's always the chance some azzhat GM comes in with a $9M offer that Lou wouldnt match. Then you wind up with four 1st-round picks, but none of them likely to score a player of Parise's caliber, and even if you do, it sets you back a minimum of 5 years developmentally to get them to an NHL all-star playing level.

N00b 'q.'

What is the current contract Zach is signed to? How much longer do we have control of him? Will he be a RFA or URFA at the end of his contract?

Bookmark this page :teach2:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=NJD&season=0809

Not something that strikes me as likely. At least not soon.

Yeah, in terms of the "Wild coming in" with a big offer, I'm FAR MORE concerned with Paul Martin, who has always struck me as a homesick young boy. Plus, he's UFA after next season. :cry:

Bookmark this page :teach2:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=NJD&season=0809



Yeah, in terms of the "Wild coming in" with a big offer, I'm FAR MORE concerned with Paul Martin, who has always struck me as a homesick young boy. Plus, he's UFA after next season. :cry:

Great site, thanks. Bookmarked.

Bookmark this page :teach2:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=NJD&season=0809



Yeah, in terms of the "Wild coming in" with a big offer, I'm FAR MORE concerned with Paul Martin, who has always struck me as a homesick young boy. Plus, he's UFA after next season. :cry:

We best not lose Paul. I'll be ver angry. Then again i wouldn't pay him anything more then what he's worth and at this point i'm thinking that would be around $5 million.

Who else do you guys think we have to retain?

I'd imagine bringing Oduya and Gionta back would be ideal but what kind of premium would they demand? Rupp would be nice to have back (physicality) but wouldn't mind if Madden or Holik go elsewhere.

We best not lose Paul. I'll be ver angry. Then again i wouldn't pay him anything more then what he's worth and at this point i'm thinking that would be around $5 million.

I'm going to say someone pays Paul Martin $6M. Puck moving defensemen dont fall from trees, and at 27, his best years are ahead of him.

Look at it this way, if the Rangers took Redden for 5 years at $6.5M, KNOWING it was a risk, dont you think Martin should command $6M on the open market?

Bookmark this page :teach2:

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=NJD&season=0809



Yeah, in terms of the "Wild coming in" with a big offer, I'm FAR MORE concerned with Paul Martin, who has always struck me as a homesick young boy. Plus, he's UFA after next season. :cry:
I would agree, especially since he's UFA after next season.

you cant reference a lot of the moves the rangers make as rational moves, so i dont know if thats a good idea

see: paying a 2nd line center 7+ million dollars per, a mediocre at best DMan 6.5 million dollars per, paying bobby holik 9 million dollars per, etc

Who else do you guys think we have to retain?

I'd imagine bringing Oduya and Gionta back would be ideal but what kind of premium would they demand? Rupp would be nice to have back (physicality) but wouldn't mind if Madden or Holik go elsewhere.

If Gio will come back for the same money he's making now then do it. I wouldn't give him more. The guy is 2 for 2 in contract years so i don't trust his production. Rupp is cheap and effective he'll most likely be retained.

Madden is a wildcard as far as what happens with him. Personally i think he'll be gone but Lou has a habit of keeping players like him.

I think Oduya is also a wildcard as to whether or not Lou will retain him. I think it all depends on how much he's looking for. He is a guy who apparently had contract disputes with Washington which lead to him staying in Europe. I think that was just because he was immature at the time but if he's looking for Martin money then i say see you later I'll make due with someone else.

With the way the cap is going to be next year and most likely the next few years i think we are going to have to turn to more young players. Let's not forget Travis needs a new contract as well. It won't be anything huge since he's a RFA but it will be an increase that will eat up more cap space with an overall number thats going down. I think this offseason could be interesting for the whole league. Players may still be looking for the big money that was throw around last year but teams just don't have the cap space anymore. Although you know there will be a few GMs who foolishly set the market to high again. It will be a slow offseason most likely.

I'm going to say someone pays Paul Martin $6M. Puck moving defensemen dont fall from trees, and at 27, his best years are ahead of him.

Look at it this way, if the Rangers took Redden for 5 years at $6.5M, KNOWING it was a risk, dont you think Martin should command $6M on the open market?

But would you be comfortable giving him 6 million on our roster because i know i wouldn't. It's way to much money for a guy who isn't a cornerstone of the franchise.

you cant reference a lot of the moves the rangers make as rational moves, so i dont know if thats a good idea

see: paying a 2nd line center 7+ million dollars per, a mediocre at best DMan 6.5 million dollars per, paying bobby holik 9 million dollars per, etc

Of course, well.....Jeff Finger got $3.5M!!

The market for defensemen is more inflated than the market for forwards.

But would you be comfortable giving him 6 million on our roster because i know i wouldn't. It's way to much money for a guy who isn't a cornerstone of the franchise.

It's a lot. I'm hoping he would take $5M to stay with the Devils, but I dont know that he strikes me as a guy that wants to stay with the Devils. And if not, my point is that if Lou doesnt, I am almost certain someone in the NHL will pay him $6M.

Of course, well.....Jeff Finger got $3.5M!!

The market for defensemen is more inflated than the market for forwards.

It's a lot. I'm hoping he would take $5M to stay with the Devils, but I dont know that he strikes me as a guy that wants to stay with the Devils. And if not, my point is that if Lou doesnt, I am almost certain someone in the NHL will pay him $6M.

I think its going to be very interesting as to how the market shapes out this season.

I know someone will offer Paul that money but I just wouldn't match it. It's too much money for him. The value just wouldn't be there.

If it takes $6M to keep Paul, Lou will do it. This team cannot survive letting both Rafalski and Martin go from the roster in that short of a time frame when your next best D men are Salvador, White, and Oduya. I don't care who you have in Lowell...

And if anybody says the name Scott N. as a solution to bridge the gap I'm gonna vomit.

If it takes $6M to keep Paul, Lou will do it. This team cannot survive letting both Rafalski and Martin go from the roster in that short of a time frame when your next best D men are Salvador, White, and Oduya. I don't care who you have in Lowell...

And if anybody says the name Scott N. as a solution to bridge the gap I'm gonna vomit.

well we could sign Scott niedermayer to bridge the gap.:sarcasm:

6 mil is a ripoff for Martin, no one will give him that. He shouldnt even be making 5. The guy isnt ever going to be a big point scorer or PP QB as much as some of you want him to be. That should keep his price relatively low.

6 mil is a ripoff for Martin, no one will give him that. He shouldnt even be making 5. The guy isnt ever going to be a big point scorer or PP QB as much as some of you want him to be. That should keep his price relatively low.

He'll get big money because he knows how to move a puck and plays extremely good positional hockey. Sure he may never put up huge numbers but he's very effective at creating offense. Losing him would suck the life out of our defense. 5 isn't overpaying for what Paul brings to the table, 6 maybe is. I don't know how comfortable i am with him potentially making that much money. But as RG said we don't have other options.

sooo because he isnt a big point producer or PP qb it means hes not a very good defenseman?

good to know

I think there is a good chance that Lou re-signs Gionta. Gionta just seems like a guy that loves playing for the Devils and has no interest in going anywhere else. He also knows that he really didn't live up to expectations for the contract he signed last time and will probably sign for the same amount or even less than he's making right now.

Holik and Madden will both be gone probably. Zajac has emerged as a terrific defensive player and will be looking for a new deal after this season. We also have young and upcoming forwards down in Lowell who might be ready for NHL duty soon. They're also cheaper than Madden and Holik.

Oduya will have to be re-signed. He's become a tremendeous d-man for the Devils and has provided us with quality play for two years now and making only $600,000 while doing it. He's due for a raise and he deserves it. I think he settles for something around $2 million, probably $2.5 million per year on a new 3-year deal. I'd be very happy with that.

I think there is a good chance that Lou re-signs Gionta. Gionta just seems like a guy that loves playing for the Devils and has no interest in going anywhere else. He also knows that he really didn't live up to expectations for the contract he signed last time and will probably sign for the same amount or even less than he's making right now.

Holik and Madden will both be gone probably. Zajac has emerged as a terrific defensive player and will be looking for a new deal after this season. We also have young and upcoming forwards down in Lowell who might be ready for NHL duty soon. They're also cheaper than Madden and Holik.

Oduya will have to be re-signed. He's become a tremendeous d-man for the Devils and has provided us with quality play for two years now and making only $600,000 while doing it. He's due for a raise and he deserves it. I think he settles for something around $2 million, probably $2.5 million per year on a new 3-year deal. I'd be very happy with that.

Oduya for 2-2.5 is fine by me. As long as he doesn't ask for more. If he's loking for 3.5-4 then i say see you later. And i only want gio for the same price nothing more. And please say goodbye to Madden.

Oduya will have to be re-signed. He's become a tremendeous d-man for the Devils and has provided us with quality play for two years now and making only $600,000 while doing it. He's due for a raise and he deserves it. I think he settles for something around $2 million, probably $2.5 million per year on a new 3-year deal. I'd be very happy with that.

That would take several jugs of Lou-aid and several horse heads in Johnny's bed to get him on that deal. Steal and a half.

I question Johnny's loyalty simply because he is so quiet. Like he's plotting his big money pay day... :sarcasm:

sooo because he isnt a big point producer or PP qb it means hes not a very good defenseman?

good to know

no kidding - if the majority of people on these boards ran the devils our blueline would look like this:

Niedermayer (6.75) - Kaberle (4.25)
Rafalski (6.0) - McCabe (5.75)
Souray (5.4) - Hainsey (4.5)

And Clemmer's GAA would be floating right around 5.50 right now.

I question Johnny's loyalty simply because he is so quiet. Like he's plotting his big money pay day... :sarcasm:
I think dressing up as a pimp for Halloween was a pretty good indication. :sarcasm:

no kidding - if the majority of people on these boards ran the devils our blueline would look like this:

Niedermayer (6.75) - Kaberle (4.25)
Rafalski (6.0) - McCabe (5.75)
Souray (5.4) - Hainsey (4.5)

And Clemmer's GAA would be floating right around 5.50 right now.

And he would still be the best ever.:D

Oduya for 2-2.5 is fine by me. As long as he doesn't ask for more. If he's loking for 3.5-4 then i say see you later.

I cant imagine Lou paying Oduya more than $2M. You've got guys out there like Beauchemin only making $1.6M, WTH should Oduay make more than that? And for a comp on the same team, Salvador only makes $2.9M and is a helluva lot more valuable/experienced (and he may be overpaid too, would have liked him better at $2.5M).

I cant imagine Lou paying Oduya more than $2M. You've got guys out there like Beauchemin only making $1.6M, WTH should Oduay make more than that? And for a comp on the same team, Salvador only makes $2.9M and is a helluva lot more valuable.

Speaking of Beauchemin isn't he a free gent. I wouldn't mind picking him up. Anyway Oduya at 2 million is a fine price. If thats it i'm happy. He's deserving of that.

Speaking of Beauchemin isn't he a free gent. I wouldn't mind picking him up. Anyway Oduya at 2 million is a fine price. If thats it i'm happy. He's deserving of that.

Yeah, he's UFA after this year.....good player.

Yeah, he's UFA after this year.....good player.

Decent offensive game and a good all around defensive game too. I like him. Definitely wouldn't mind adding him. cheap solid player.

Our little goal scorer is all growd up...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/parise-2.jpg

Our little goal scorer is all growd up...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/parise-2.jpg

Looks like Parros' little brother.

Our little goal scorer is all growd up...

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/parise-2.jpg

sweet avatar RG.

Looks like Parros' little brother.

Cup finals...;)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/playoffs-1.jpg

Parise 54 goals, elias 50

For the record, I would throw up if we signed Martin above 4.5 or so. He's a good defenseman and definitely helps our team a lot, but 5-6 million for him would be pretty awful. Then again, we might not be able to avoid that. I'd like to see him stay, but at that price... eh... He'd have a good deal to improve if he's gonna get such a contract.


As for Parise... well, can you say "mancrush"?

sooo because he isnt a big point producer or PP qb it means hes not a very good defenseman?

good to know

Point is, nobody is going to pay the price of a Nick Lidstrom to pick up Paul Martin. Sure the Rangers did it with Redden, but they also paid 7 million for Gomez and they have a track record for overpaying (See the NY Yankees)...

He's a VERY solid defenseman, yes...but value wise he just isn't worth anything more than 4 to me. 5 or 6 million is pushing it for a solid defensive D-man. We could have Bouwmeester for that price...And he brings offense.

I'm very partial to Paul Martin, he's second only to Parise in potential. But if he wants 5-6 million I say let him walk. I'd hate it, but oh well.

the point is that you have to either A) pay martin his 5-6 million if he wants it or B) bring in a viable, similar player as a replacement for around that price because without him we are screwed IMO

back to Parise for a minute...

He also holds the Devils franchise record for the fastest goal in a season-opening game, which he did just 26 seconds into the 2006–07 NHL season opener. The only other Devils player to score in the first minute of the season was Stephane Richer who scored a goal 49 seconds after the start of the game in the 1991–92 NHL season.

, yes...but value wise he just isn't worth anything more than 4 to me. 5 or 6 million is pushing it for a solid defensive D-man. We could have Bouwmeester for that price...And he brings offense.

I'm very partial to Paul Martin, he's second only to Parise in potential. But if he wants 5-6 million I say let him walk. I'd hate it, but oh well.

Well, he's already making a cap hit of 3.83M now with a $4.5M salary. Obviously, he's getting a minimum of $5M, and I'd be surprised if someone doesnt toss him $6M.

back to Parise for a minute...

Nice little stat there. I think he will be a lifetime devil, and he wil definiely be the first to eclipse 50 goals and 100 points. maybe not this year, but i think he will definitely do it in his career for jersey's team.

I think there is a good chance that Lou re-signs Gionta. Gionta just seems like a guy that loves playing for the Devils and has no interest in going anywhere else. He also knows that he really didn't live up to expectations for the contract he signed last time and will probably sign for the same amount or even less than he's making right now.

Holik and Madden will both be gone probably. Zajac has emerged as a terrific defensive player and will be looking for a new deal after this season. We also have young and upcoming forwards down in Lowell who might be ready for NHL duty soon. They're also cheaper than Madden and Holik.

Oduya will have to be re-signed. He's become a tremendeous d-man for the Devils and has provided us with quality play for two years now and making only $600,000 while doing it. He's due for a raise and he deserves it. I think he settles for something around $2 million, probably $2.5 million per year on a new 3-year deal. I'd be very happy with that.

I agree with everything you said, i would also like to add that if Madden leaves, ship out Pando to the bruins or waive him or something. i really didnt see his purpose when he was with madden, and if madden leaves, then i think we really dont have any purpose for him.

Cup finals...;)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/playoffs-1.jpg

zajac would be lucky if he could grow that much facial hair :laugh:

sooo because he isnt a big point producer or PP qb it means hes not a very good defenseman?

good to know

No, dont put words into my mouth.

Fact: No sane GM will pay Martin anywhere close to 6 million.

Fact: Martin is overrated by alot of Devils fans. He will never be a good offensive defenseman. He is not the next Niedermayer. He is not a #1 defenseman. He is a solid 2/3 defenseman with above average puck moving skills.

One cent above 5 million is a ripoff.

whens the last time ANYONE said Martin was the next Niedermayer, 2005?

whens the last time ANYONE said Martin was the next Niedermayer, 2005?

Of all the points of my post you choose that to nitpick. I guess you agree with the rest then.

And no, I see it all the time. As recently as last year for sure. Next time he has a rush that leads to a goal Ill probably see it again. Every year seems to be Martins "breakout year" offensively on this board. Face it, its not gonna happen. Still a very good defenseman, not worth any more than 5 mil.

One cent above 5 million is a ripoff.

So if you were the GM, you'd let him walk and get nothing in return if he wanted $5,000,000.01?

You'd make a crappy GM...

no, i dont agree with the rest. i do believe Martin is a #1 and aside from about a 5-8 game stretch has shown that this year. sure hes not going to score a ton of points or be a PP quarterback, but so what? this team relies on its forwards for scoring and uses forwards at the point on the PP so its not as big of a deal

Martin could become a late bloomer just like Nieds. Don't get me wrong, he's never going to have those slick skills, but he is good at everything.

Like really good at everything.

He's great in the corners, very strong at skating the puck up, is very good positionally, has a great breakout pass and has that kind of Lidstrom-esque hockey sense.

If that is overrating him, then so be it. He's a fantastic 2-way defenceman who can control a game. That's all I require from him.

Crosby would be lucky if he could grow that much facial hair :laugh:


Fixed :nod:

I have no doubt Zajac could that much facial hair if he wanted to :sarcasm:

So if you were the GM, you'd let him walk and get nothing in return if he wanted $5,000,000.01?

You'd make a crappy GM...

No obviously the Devils have a unique situation given their pathetic defense. Theyre pretty much forced to sign Martin unless his price reaches a ridiculous 6 million that some of you here believe is possible. Theres no point in speculating now it all depends on where the cap is, who else is on our roster, and who the other free agents that summer are.


NIce try though I love your witty comment its hilarious. Paul would definitely deman that extra cent per year on his contract.

Fixed :nod:

I have no doubt Zajac could that much facial hair if he wanted to :sarcasm:

He's from Winterpeg, they are born with beards up there.

Martin could become a late bloomer just like Nieds. Don't get me wrong, he's never going to have those slick skills, but he is good at everything.

Like really good at everything.

He's great in the corners, very strong at skating the puck up, is very good positionally, has a great breakout pass and has that kind of Lidstrom-esque hockey sense.

If that is overrating him, then so be it. He's a fantastic 2-way defenceman who can control a game. That's all I require from him.

Martin will blow up if he gets a legit top pairing d-man to work with. When he played with Suter in the WHC this summer, he took his game to the next level. Straight baller.

whens the last time ANYONE said Martin was the next Niedermayer, 2005?

Martin could become a late bloomer just like Nieds. Don't get me wrong, he's never going to have those slick skills, but he is good at everything.

Like really good at everything.

He's great in the corners, very strong at skating the puck up, is very good positionally, has a great breakout pass and has that kind of Lidstrom-esque hockey sense.

If that is overrating him, then so be it. He's a fantastic 2-way defenceman who can control a game. That's all I require from him.

See my point about him being overrated now?


Note: Brit, I realize you were not saying Martin will be as good as Niedermayer, but I do believe you are overrating him with those comments.

our "pathetic defense" is like top 5 in goals allowed, without Marty...

Paul would definitely deman that extra cent per year on his contract.

I know I would. What if the value of the dollar just took off in 5 years? Then those measly extra cents that elitist liberal freedom haters such as yourself just shrug off as nothing would be worth a fortune.

See my point about him being overrated now?


Note: Brit, I realize you were not saying Martin will be as good as Niedermayer, but I do believe you are overrating him with those comments.






youre reallllllly grasping at straws here now...he said a late bloomer LIKE nieds. he didnt say he was going to turn into Nieds or be as good as Nieds or anything like that

Another point, I think Martin is being paid his market value on his current contract. In my opinion, hes pretty much done improving and wont be much better at all when its time for a new contract. Obviously a raise is likely, but I dont think he deserves to be paid much higher.

See my point about him being overrated now?


Note: Brit, I realize you were not saying Martin will be as good as Niedermayer, but I do believe you are overrating him with those comments.

I honestly believe he has that sense for the game like Nik does. If you don't think so that's fine.

Not on the same level, not nearly. But his poise and defensive awareness is very, very good.

I'd like to interrupt this Martin argument that I inadvertantly started to point out that even Scott Niedermayer isnt the fantastic offensive defensemen that is often compared to Scott Niedermayer.

our "pathetic defense" is like top 5 in goals allowed, without Marty...

SO then you think we can let Martin walk without adequately replacing him?


...Me neither

Im done here, all Im trying to say is that Paul Martin is not worth more than 5 million. And he is not a #1 dman unless he is on a team with an incredibly deep defensive corps with several other top 4 defensemen or a HOF goaltender to support him.

our "pathetic defense" is like top 5 in goals allowed, without Marty...

But, but, but, but.

Seriously folks. We're running out of excuses now when it comes to the defense. We're still missing another top pairing defenseman, but we do have a decent group back there. Our forwards' prowess defensively definitely helps them, however..

But you can't just ignore the numbers. 5th in the league in GAA without Brodeur. They're not scrubs back there.

As for Martin, he's a tremendous defender. People like "sexy" players. The guys who can throw a big check, or a guy who has the booming slapper. Or the guy with amazing wheels. Martin really isn't "sexy". You really have to follow Paul night in and night out to have an appreciation for the work that he's does.

He deserves at least 5 million when it's time for him to make bank. That's what you pay for top pairing defensemen.

I'd like to interrupt this Martin argument that I inadvertantly started to point out that even Scott Niedermayer isnt the fantastic offensive defensemen that is often compared to Scott Niedermayer.

:laugh:

Go stroke yourself to Phaneuf highlight reels.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Weeonta has a Phaneuf Fathead with candles strategically placed around it to create an altar-like setting. :sarcasm:

parise m'boi! :handclap:

Remember how pathetic our Martin-less defense looked? yeah. he is worth 5-5.5 mil for me longterm.

Fair enough, no one agrees. Ill take Wideman, Regehr, Souray, Gonchar, Kaberle, Bieksa, Mitchell, Ohlund, etc. for that price or Markov, Refalski, Timonen etc. if you wanna go up to the 6 million price tag.

Notice something: you can get much better Dman for that price than Martin, although some of them are on bargain contracts. If youre going up to the 6 million range, gimme nothing short of an elite defenseman like Markov, Timonen, or Rafalski. Yes, I know what you guys think of Rafalski, but if given the choice 30 outta 30 GMs take Rafalski over Martin at 6 million.

Fair enough, no one agrees. Ill take Wideman, Regehr, Souray, Gonchar, Kaberle, Bieksa, Mitchell, Ohlund, etc. for that price or Markov, Refalski, Timonen etc. if you wanna go up to the 6 million price tag.

Notice something: you can get much better Dman for that price than Martin, although some of them are on bargain contracts. If youre going up to the 6 million range, gimme nothing short of an elite defenseman like Markov, Timonen, or Rafalski. Yes, I know what you guys think of Rafalski, but if given the choice 30 outta 30 GMs take Rafalski over Martin at 6 million.

No, they wouldn't.

Also, I thought the issue to you was whether you'd pay him 5 million? Now we're up to 6 million?

Fair enough, no one agrees. Ill take Wideman, Regehr, Souray, Gonchar, Kaberle, Bieksa, Mitchell, Ohlund, etc. for that price or Markov, Refalski, Timonen etc. if you wanna go up to the 6 million price tag.

Notice something: you can get much better Dman for that price than Martin, although some of them are on bargain contracts. If youre going up to the 6 million range, gimme nothing short of an elite defenseman like Markov, Timonen, or Rafalski. Yes, I know what you guys think of Rafalski, but if given the choice 30 outta 30 GMs take Rafalski over Martin at 6 million.

Of those player i'd take only the bolded over Martin. Maybe Wideman but I've haven't seen enough of him to judge his defensive game.

Of those player i'd take only the bolded over Martin. Maybe Wideman but I've haven't seen enough of him to judge his defensive game.

This is what I mean about our fans overrating martin. Gonchar is far better, hes a top 3 PP QB in the league. Notice how bad Pittsburgh is struggling without him. Bieksa is just a far more talented all around defenseman. Hes at least equal defensively, more physical, and better offensively. Look at Sourays numbers this year, his defensive struggles are very over exaggerated.


On these boards, intangibles, potential, and defensive play >>> offensive numbers

No, they wouldn't.

Also, I thought the issue to you was whether you'd pay him 5 million? Now we're up to 6 million?

Yes, they would. Rafalski outproduced Niedermayer in almost every year they were both in NJ together. He is a top PP QB in the league. And he can hold his own defensively. He is widely regarded as a top 10-20 defenseman in the league, whereas Martin would be lucky to crack the top 30. Again, how does Martins slight edge in defensive play, the only thing he has on Rafalski, balance out the extra 25 points a year that Rafalski is going ot score?

And I never said Id pay Martin 6 million, obviously. I basically proved you all wrong who said Martin is worth 6 million by showing that all defensemen at that price are elite, such as Rafalski, Markov and Timonen. If YOU say that YOUD give Martin 6 million, IM saying that ID rather sign an elite defenseman for a similar amount or trade for one of the above mentioned.

ken klee

This is what I mean about our fans overrating martin. Gonchar is far better, hes a top 3 PP QB in the league. Notice how bad Pittsburgh is struggling without him. Bieksa is just a far more talented all around defenseman. Hes at least equal defensively, more physical, and better offensively. Look at Sourays numbers this year, his defensive struggles are very over exaggerated.


On these boards, intangibles, potential, and defensive play >>> offensive numbers

His defense still sucks and last time i checked defensive ability is the first responsibility of a defenseman. I missed Gonchar's name on there that is the only reason i didn't bold him. As far as Bieska, he's not better then Martin. Martin can do much more then bieska. I don't know how you say he's better all around then martin. Martin can move the pucks much better then him and is 10x better defensively.

And I never said Id pay Martin 6 million, obviously. I basically proved you all wrong who said Martin is worth 6 million by showing that all defensemen at that price are elite, such as Rafalski, Markov and Timonen. If YOU say that YOUD give Martin 6 million, IM saying that ID rather sign an elite defenseman for a similar amount or trade for one of the above mentioned.

Read the posts no wants to give him 6 million but a GM will offer him 6 million. GMs have scouts who actually watch hockey games and therefore see the value that Martin brings to a team.

Gonchar is far better, hes a top 3 PP QB in the league. Notice how bad Pittsburgh is struggling without him. Gonchar is far older too. He's 34. I'd rather sign a 27 year old Martin about to have his most productive statistical years ahead of him



Bieksa is just a far more talented all around defenseman. Hes at least equal defensively, more physical, and better offensively.

Not buying this one. Plus, Bieksa has only played in 190 NHL games to Martin's 350, and they're the same age. Martin just has much more experience. And Bieksa is locked up at $3.8M, which is the exact same $$$$ Martin is currently signed at.

Gonchar is far older too. He's 34. I'd rather sign a 27 year old Martin about to have his most productive statistical years ahead of him



Not buying this one. Plus, Bieksa has only played in 190 NHL games to Martin's 350, and they're the same age. Martin just has much more experience. And Bieksa is locked up at $3.8M, which is the exact same $$$$ Martin is currently signed at.

GOnchar didnt sign his contract when he was 34. Im pointing out better defensemen for the kind of cash you guys think Martin can get.

Bieksa is far better. I dont know what else to say. He was a late bloomer. To devilzrule, you claim Martin is 10x better defensively. How often have you seen Bieksa play? Put a poll up on the main board. It wont even be close, even if you tell VAN and NJ fans not to vote.

Yes, they would. Rafalski outproduced Niedermayer in almost every year they were both in NJ together. He is a top PP QB in the league. And he can hold his own defensively. He is widely regarded as a top 10-20 defenseman in the league, whereas Martin would be lucky to crack the top 30. Again, how does Martins slight edge in defensive play, the only thing he has on Rafalski, balance out the extra 25 points a year that Rafalski is going ot score?

And I never said Id pay Martin 6 million, obviously. I basically proved you all wrong who said Martin is worth 6 million by showing that all defensemen at that price are elite, such as Rafalski, Markov and Timonen. If YOU say that YOUD give Martin 6 million, IM saying that ID rather sign an elite defenseman for a similar amount or trade for one of the above mentioned.

Your argument is based on statistics. Great, Rafalski outperformed Niedermayer offensively when both were in NJ. But that was before the lockout. The game has changed. Rafalski is not the same defenseman he was several years ago. Ask a Detroit fan about that contract right about now.

Lou wouldn't come close to giving Brian 6 million. Surely, he'd give Martin 6 million before Rafalski - hence why he let him walk.

So no, 30 out of 30 GM's wouldn't take Rafalski over Martin.

Your argument is based on statistics. Great, Rafalski outperformed Niedermayer offensively when both were in NJ. But that was before the lockout. The game has changed. Rafalski is not the same defenseman he was several years ago. Ask a Detroit fan about that contract right about now.

Lou wouldn't come close to giving Brian 6 million. Surely, he'd give Martin 6 million before Rafalski - hence why he let him walk.

So no, 30 out of 30 GM's wouldn't take Rafalski over Martin.

You know that Lou would give Martin 6 million? Quick, what are the lotto numbers next week?

Rafalski is better. Period. 30 outta 30 was hyperbole. Im sorry. Not point in arguing with my fellow Devils fans anymore. Martin is a great defenseman. Im glad we have him. Not sure about the fans who would take him over Bieksa and Wideman though.

EDIT: To sum up my main point, though, if some GM is gonna over Martin 6 million, and it seems like you guys think Lou should match if thats the case, why not go for an elite defenseman on the market (granted that there is one) such as Timonen for 6.33 million? My point is no GM will offer Martin 6 million, if they do, let his ass walk out the door and sign someone better for an extra .5 mill.

go ask Wings fans how Rafalski has played this year...hes having a BAD season

Rafalski is better offensively, no doubt. but Martin is much better defensively so i dont see how you can say Rafaski is unquestionably better all around

You know that Lou would give Martin 6 million? Quick, what are the lotto numbers next week?

Rafalski is better. Period. 30 outta 30 was hyperbole. Im sorry. Not point in arguing with my fellow Devils fans anymore. Martin is a great defenseman. Im glad we have him. Not sure about the fans who would take him over Bieksa and Wideman though.

EDIT: To sum up my main point, though, if some GM is gonna over Martin 6 million, and it seems like you guys think Lou should match if thats the case, why not go for an elite defenseman on the market (granted that there is one) such as Timonen for 6.33 million? My point is no GM will offer Martin 6 million, if they do, let his ass walk out the door and sign someone better for an extra .5 mill.

:facepalm:

:facepalm:

What? I know you said you havent seen enough of Wideman, but you also made a ridiculous claim that Martin is 10x better defensively than Bieksa. The fact is both of those defensman are comparable defensively and better offensively. I dont know what hard to accept about that.

GP G A P +/-
Wideman:

42 8 21 29 25

Bieksa:

36 5 17 22 -4

Martin:

38 3 9 12 8

What? I know you said you havent seen enough of Wideman, but you also made a ridiculous claim that Martin is 10x better defensively than Bieksa. The fact is both of those defensman are comparable defensively and better offensively. I dont know what hard to accept about that.

GP G A P +/-
Wideman:

42 8 21 29 25

Bieksa:

36 5 17 22 -4

Martin:

38 3 9 12 8

And Goals, Assists, and Points relate to defensive play, how?

And Goals, Assists, and Points relate to defensive play, how?

Im sorry, but like I said BY OBSERVING THEIR PLAY theyre all AT LEAST comparable defensively. Plus they put up a lot more points. If you want to believe Paul Martins defensive play is vastly superior to that of Wideman and Bieksa, so much so that it makes up for the large discrepency in points and then some, then feel free

Im sorry, but like I said BY OBSERVING THEIR PLAY theyre all AT LEAST comparable defensively. Plus they put up a lot more points. If you want to believe Paul Martins defensive play is vastly superior to that of Wideman and Bieksa, so much so that it makes up for the large discrepency in points and then some, then feel free

You need to OBSERVE more then

Im sorry, but like I said BY OBSERVING THEIR PLAY theyre all AT LEAST comparable defensively. Plus they put up a lot more points. If you want to believe Paul Martins defensive play is vastly superior to that of Wideman and Bieksa, so much so that it makes up for the large discrepency in points and then some, then feel free

I didn't see "observing their play" in the post I quoted.

And if you did in another post, well, I don't feel like reading through the jibber jabber.

EDIT: If you want stats I'll give you stats. And ones that can help evaluate defensive play.

Paul Martin 1.74
Dennis Wideman 2.00
Kevin Bieksa 2.43

What's those numbers you ask? Those numbers are the average GA that each player would be out for every 60 minutes of 5 on 5 play (GAON/60). Those numbers help me determine defensive play. And while those numbers are not the sole determinant of how good a defenseman is defensively - it does a darn good job of encompassing the big picture of how a defenseman is playing in his own end.

Martin's ranking is 16th in the league among defenseman with a minimum of 20 games played. Out of those 16 D-men, only Martin and Lubomir Visnovsky play on the top pairing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/lysistratarei/zajacandparise.jpg

So he can, in fact, grow facial hair.

Why are you arguing about Martin in what should be a thread full of haiku about Parise and admissions of mancrushes as a result of his irresistible manliness? (and possibly being the first Devil to score 50 goals) :shakehead

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/lysistratarei/zajacandparise.jpg

look at those LB's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/lysistratarei/zajacandparise.jpg



their faces reminded me of this. and i lold because im simple. and i like kitties.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/its-beautiful.jpg

Parise's going for 50, Elias is going for 40, Mottau is a +15, its a good time in the NHL.

their faces reminded me of this. and i lold because im simple. and i like kitties.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/its-beautiful.jpg

:laugh: kitties are funny