Thoughts at the halfway point?

Just wanted to have a thread to gather everybody's thoughts halfway through the 2008-2009 season. I am pleasantly surprised that we've stayed in it this long after Marty's injury. I was thinking the season would be over and we'd be out of it until we got Marty back and then it would be too late.

It just shows the verteran presence in the locker room, and how great this team can be when fully healthy. When we get Marty back everybody will gain even more confidence and I'd say we have a decent shot at this. Let's Go Devils! :handclap:

What are your thoughts?

Gotta Give Props to the Offense. Give the Goaltending Some Credit for keeping us in the top 8 without Marty. I Say when Marty gets back, the league better watch out.

Ignoring these past two weeks of relatively ****** hockey, I'm ecstatic that we're 24-15-3 without Marty. We'd be closer to 30 wins with him.

Ignoring these past two weeks of relatively ****** hockey, I'm ecstatic that we're 24-15-3 without Marty. We'd be closer to 30 wins with him.
I Say we'd be tops in the Atlantic.

Can't wait till Marty comes back that's my thoughts.

We still need a #1 defenseman

Can't wait till Marty comes back that's my thoughts.


Yeah it was so weird in the beginning seeing Clemmer and Weekes in net, like I was so used to seeing Marty back there.

Now its going to be weird seeing Marty back in net the first couple of games. But I really miss him, can't wait for his return. :yo:

There was supposed to be an interview with marty tonight on jersey sports final, talking about his return, but I missed it and only saw Rolston

I'm happy with the season to date. Some tweaks need to made to the roster but all in all its going good.

Yeah it was so weird in the beginning seeing Clemmer and Weekes in net, like I was so used to seeing Marty back there.

Now its going to be weird seeing Marty back in net the first couple of games. But I really miss him, can't wait for his return. :yo:

It won't be weird for me. It's just tough for me to sit there and look at Clemmer and Weekes, when I see him back there I'll have that sense of calm again.

The emergence of Parise puts a smile on my face.

The reincarnation of Elias puts a smile on my face.

And knowing that all of this was done without Marty and that he will be back soon enough puts a smile on my face.

The offense has certainly been a big help. They now have 5 players with over 30 points.


SKATERS: GP G A +/- Pts
Z. Parise 42 24 25 14 49
P. Elias 42 19 29 12 48
B. Gionta 41 10 26 10 36
T. Zajac 42 11 20 14 31
Langs 41 8 22 11 30

i still hate pando and i still dislike the defense situation. other than that, im happy with the team. sutter has finally implemented the system we were told about and finally the madden/pando suckfest has ended. clemmer has been fantastic for what its worth and along with the obvious awesome play of parise and patty, rupp and zajac are having amazing seasons so far:handclap:.

Can't wait till Marty comes back that's my thoughts.

Marty neeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to go back to his old mask when he comes back.

Marty neeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to go back to his old mask when he comes back.

he should have a pre game helmet burning:nod:
http://artsmeme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/jimi-burning-320.jpg

I think we are all starting to see the emergence of Rolston on the PP. Before he came any shot from the point or even closer without a perfect screen or deflection would be handled easily. But he just blows buy goalies and is smart enough to slow it down when needed like the set up on the clarkson goal today.

I like how our PP is starting to look "consistent" instead of just "hot" or "cold".

With everyone else on Marty.

How awesome would it be if we had two 100 point forwards?! (Parise & Elias) :yo:

Pandolfo and Madden are on the downside of their careers. Wouldn't mind seeing either of them dealt by the deadline...

The stat sheet that Chico brought up from last season tells all the differences you need to know:

1. We're scoring a lot more goals.
2. We're giving up more goals, on average.
3. Our penalty kill is terrible compared to where it's been.

But, the similarities:

1. We're basically in the same place in the standings.
2. We still need that defenseman.

Granted, with Brodeur we'll stop giving up as many goals and our PK should improve some. But I think the similarities are more telling than the differences. We'll see.

http://i44.tinypic.com/f1lcuc.jpg

I think Lou needs to address the defence. It flat out sucks, yes it gives us the chance to win and yes we are up there, or down there as the case may be, in GA but the unit as it is is completely inept offensively. There special teams ability as a group is also turderiffic, PK and PP.

First Sutter has to break up his numb nut pairings. Oduya and Martin just don't have it this season together and were seeing why this pairing was exposed in the first place. Put Salvador back with Martin, you can't expect Sal to play his best when he has the human anchor Mike Mottau chained to his feet. White and Oduya was never a good pairing, Johnny can't play on the right side and Colin can't because he's essentially blind. This is where you bring in a solid and reliable 2-way defenceman for Whitey. Oduya has been solid, can't complain for a guy who is on a 30 point (6 goal) pace without PP time. Genuine top-4 defenceman, sadly I see him as trade bait though.

I would be inclined to call up Matt Corrente for 3rd pairing minutes. There is no way he can be worse than Andy Greene or Mike Mottau in his own end, and he brings that physicality and right hand shot that the team needs from a defenceman with limited minutes. Think Colin White in 99/00. Give the kid a shot, I guarantee he takes it and runs with it.

This is where you get rid of dead weight. Mottau and Greene are the runts of the pack. They are useless, Mottau for all his heart skates like my Grandad and Greener is softer than extra soft Charmin. I like them as dudes, they seem genuine, but they are bad defenceman and are not NHL calibre. I actually think Jay Leach is better than these two and that guy is a stiff. Greene has so called potential, and he started playing like it when he finally got some time earlier in the season, but he has been a limp dog ever since that broken hand. He may not even get over that injury...

So yeah, everything has been better than average. Given the fact that our HHOF goaltender has missed a lot of time and the doubts that they were faced with, I could even go as far as spectacular, but the defence still sucks.

Elias, Parise, Zajac and Clemmensen get a :bow:.

Mottau, Greene, Pandolfo and to a certain extent Madden get a bleep off.

Following my rant up, guys that I still think Lou should go after. Nothing over the top either.

Tomas Kaberle, Marek Zidlicky, Filip Kuba, Jaroslav Spacek.

Following my rant up, guys that I still think Lou should go after. Nothing over the top either.

Tomas Kaberle, Marek Zidlicky, Filip Kuba, Jaroslav Spacek.

I'll add Toni Lydman to that list.

I like the way Greene has been playing, he is showing more and more he can be a guy to get the puck deep in the offensive zone. Yea the defense could use an upgrade and i think this is the year Lou actually does something about it, but what that means is we WILL have to say goodbye one of Gio, Madden, Pando and a good prospect.

As for the OP question. You can't complain where we are without Marty. We hit a stretch there when we were playing lights out hockey but in the recent weeks the effort hasn't been completely there, nor has the urgancey to win in the playoffs. The offense has been playing above there heads and i expect a fall back to earth. I can see us finishing around 15 in goals for in the league which is still pretty good considering where we usually finish.

The D is the project here. I have faith in Salvador to be the main shut down guy but we need points from the back end, we need somebody to be a threat out there during even strength play. Martin is progessing everygame but getting somebody to complement him, that is truly what will make this a scary team.

Given our circumstances, I don't see how anyone can't be happy where we're at

We all know we need the defenseman.. I'm sure Lou knows it too.. We prob just have to wait until the deadline

The Shanny addition might stir up something small a bit early though

This is where you get rid of dead weight. Mottau and Greene are the runts of the pack. They are useless, Mottau for all his heart skates like my Grandad and Greener is softer than extra soft Charmin. I like them as dudes, they seem genuine, but they are bad defenceman and are not NHL calibre. I actually think Jay Leach is better than these two and that guy is a stiff. Greene has so called potential, and he started playing like it when he finally got some time earlier in the season, but he has been a limp dog ever since that broken hand. He may not even get over that injury...


Not sure where you get that, Greene has been laying some good hits lately.

that we're the Devils. Somehow we still manage to always be in the playoff picture. If we're not doing it with offense, we're doing it with defense.

I'm not sure where this Mottau hate is coming from. Is he a great defenseman? Absolutely not.

But doing a little research, Mottau's Goals Against On Ice rating per 60 minutes (the average of time on ice for goals ever 60 minutes of 5 on 5) is 4th best in the NHL at 1.48 GA/60 for defenseman with minimums of 30 games played and 10 5on5 minutes per game. (Paul Martin is 3rd by the way, even with his poor effort last night).

Now does this make him the 4th best defenseman in the league? Of course not. You may even choose to brush a stat like this off because it's predicated on +/-. But it shows you that Mottau has played well on the backend for the team this year - end of story.

ive always hated Mottau but hes played well this year. hes a fine third pairing DMan

Hey Brit...are you trying to use my line about Kaberle on Greene?

Not for nothing, but your Greene scapegoating IS NOT COOL! Greene has been excellent since he came back from his injury. Does he make mistakes, sure, but find me one player that hasn't. Enough with the Greene hate and the Greene trades.

Hey Brit...are you trying to use my line about Kaberle on Greene?

Not for nothing, but your Greene scapegoating IS NOT COOL! Greene has been excellent since he came back from his injury. Does he make mistakes, sure, but find me one player that hasn't. Enough with the Greene hate and the Greene trades.

Yeah Brit gimme a break. If Greene doesn't have to carry his partner all the time he'd be scoring like Kaberle does.

Many times nobody is in front of the net when Greene puts the puck on goal, or if they are, they deflected a puck that would have gone into the net.

Also those shots that Greene seems to miss on the net? Those are intentional. They shoot the puck to the side so it will be picked up, they weren't shooting at the net which would be a dangerous play at those times when most of our guys is behind the net.

I'm not sure where this Mottau hate is coming from. Is he a great defenseman? Absolutely not.

But doing a little research, Mottau's Goals Against On Ice rating per 60 minutes (the average of time on ice for goals ever 60 minutes of 5 on 5) is 4th best in the NHL at 1.48 GA/60 for defenseman with minimums of 30 games played and 10 5on5 minutes per game. (Paul Martin is 3rd by the way, even with his poor effort last night).

Now does this make him the 4th best defenseman in the league? Of course not. You may even choose to brush a stat like this off because it's predicated on +/-. But it shows you that Mottau has played well on the backend for the team this year - end of story.

Because Mike Mottau isn't a big time name and people need someone to ***** about? ;)

I don't recall many times myself saying, "Damnit, Mottau! You are the reason for that ****ing goal!"

I've been happy with him.. I'm not expecting much out of him and he's been serviceable.. We all would like more than that but it's hard in a cap world

i like greene. i like him a lot actually.

but if he can be used in a trade to get a bigtime Dman here than im all for trading him

I'll add Toni Lydman to that list.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!!!! Lydman has got to be one of the most overrated players in the NHL, if only by fans. My wife and a co-worker of mine (huge Sabres fans) are all too familiar with me saying "oh look! Bag-of-pucks Lydman turns it over again!"

OK OK so it's only my opinion. But from what I hear in 'Bres land, Spacek gets no love and Lydman gets a ton... then watching the games it seems like the EXACT opposite on the ice.

Because Mike Mottau isn't a big time name and people need someone to ***** about? ;)

I don't recall many times myself saying, "Damnit, Mottau! You are the reason for that ****ing goal!"

I've been happy with him.. I'm not expecting much out of him and he's been serviceable.. We all would like more than that but it's hard in a cap world

Exactly. :nod:

He's a good bottom pairing defenseman, and of course a guy like Mottau is not indispensable. But the suggestion of replacing him with Corrente is pretty much laughable. Corrente wouldn't be the 3rd defenseman I'd bring up from Lowell if I was going to call someone up.

We have 2 more points than we did last year at this time - without Marty.

I'm happy.

I didn't realise I would get attacked for voicing an opinion. I guess that's why this place has gone down hill.

I have a different opinion to yours, big deal. Don't try and make me out to be some kind of half hearted kid with misty eyes for Kaberle. If your happy with AHL calibre on talent on the blueline, then thats fine too.

I didn't realise I would get attacked for voicing an opinion. I guess that's why this place has gone down hill.

I have a different opinion to yours, big deal. Don't try and make me out to be some kind of half hearted kid with misty eyes for Kaberle. If your happy with AHL calibre on talent on the blueline, then thats fine too.

I apologize if I came off condescending to you. I was voicing an opinion as well, not trying to put down a poster.

Next time, I'll know who to respond to if we're all going to be so sensitive.

And never once did I say that I was happy with AHL talent on the blueline. See, that's being attacked, too.

I didn't realise I would get attacked for voicing an opinion. I guess that's why this place has gone down hill.

I have a different opinion to yours, big deal. Don't try and make me out to be some kind of half hearted kid with misty eyes for Kaberle. If your happy with AHL calibre on talent on the blueline, then thats fine too.

Who is attacking you? I just simply made fun of you because you used the same line that I did about Kaberle on Greene...AFTER I used it!

If you're gonna get your panties in a bunch, head to the bar, drink a beer and un-bunch them!

If you wanna talk about AHL calibre talent, then wipe out our ENTIRE defense and leave Paul Martin...THAT'S IT!

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11645214/Tropik_Splash_Cranberry_Juice.jpg


whoever gets that rules

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11645214/Tropik_Splash_Cranberry_Juice.jpg


whoever gets that rules

Does he have a UTI?

Well that was quick.

Not for nothing, but your Greene scapegoating IS NOT COOL! Greene has been excellent since he came back from his injury. Does he make mistakes, sure, but find me one player that hasn't. Enough with the Greene hate and the Greene trades.

There seems to be some confusion here:

Excellent - (adjective) very good; of the highest quality. Superior performance.

Adequate - (adjective) reasonably sufficient or suitable, but not excelling

Does he have a UTI?




think: the departed

I'm not sure where this Mottau hate is coming from. Is he a great defenseman? Absolutely not.

But doing a little research, Mottau's Goals Against On Ice rating per 60 minutes (the average of time on ice for goals ever 60 minutes of 5 on 5) is 4th best in the NHL at 1.48 GA/60 for defenseman with minimums of 30 games played and 10 5on5 minutes per game. (Paul Martin is 3rd by the way, even with his poor effort last night).

Now does this make him the 4th best defenseman in the league? Of course not. You may even choose to brush a stat like this off because it's predicated on +/-. But it shows you that Mottau has played well on the backend for the team this year - end of story.

I don't understand all the hate against Mottau, either. Then again, I'm a hockey n00b. I looked up some stats and he's definitely not a scorer (9 pts) but he's +16. That's in the top 20 overall, 8th for defenseman. Is the plus/minus category not statistically relevant?

There seems to be some confusion here:

Excellent - (adjective) very good; of the highest quality. Superior performance.

Adequate - (adjective) reasonably sufficient or suitable, but not excelling

Fine...our an entire defense has been adequate than this season. The only who possibly gets a higher rating than adequate is Paul Martin...

I'll put it this way. I know we're not winning the cup but they're keeping me interested. The forward core is very good for this team but the D still isn't strong enough for me. Get a top D-man and I'll be psyched. And no, getting the best goaltender ever back from injury around deadline time doesn't count.

Wow everyone gets all testy after a loss huh?

we need a ranger game to refocus this bitterness...

Fine...our an entire defense has been adequate than this season. The only who possibly gets a higher rating than adequate is Paul Martin...

So what if you have a chance to upgrade that defence, no matter who you lose, you wouldn't do it?

I'm not just picking on Andy for the fun of it you know, I know he has potential, but look at the age of this team. This looks like it might be the only shot they are going to have a for a while.

Getting a defenceman who can put up points consistantly on the powerplay is something we have missed since Brian Rafalski. Kaberle is alson the second highest scoring defenceman in the league since the lockout. If our "system" and coaching can make farts like Mottau and Leach look serviceable, you better believe Kaberle can play here.

Wow everyone gets all testy after a loss huh?

we need a ranger game to refocus this bitterness...

Yup...I'm tired of seeing the ridiculous thread after thread about this guy and that guy! Who should sit, who should go, what are the lines going to be, etc. It's tiresome...

Yup...I'm tired of seeing the ridiculous thread after thread about this guy and that guy! Who should sit, who should go, what are the lines going to be, etc. It's tiresome...

It's a forum. Don't like critical analysis, don't click on the thread.

It's tiresome...

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9158/dieter30av4jj.jpg

So what if you have a chance to upgrade that defence, no matter who you lose, you wouldn't do it?

I'm not just picking on Andy for the fun of it you know, I know he has potential, but look at the age of this team. This looks like it might be the only shot they are going to have a for a while.

Getting a defenceman who can put up points consistantly on the powerplay is something we have missed since Brian Rafalski. Kaberle is alson the second highest scoring defenceman in the league since the lockout. If our "system" and coaching can make farts like Mottau and Leach, you better believe Kaberle can play here.

So were going to lose the only one who has potential on the team??

Personally I'd like to get rid of our entire defense and start from scratch, however that's not possible.

I'm just tired of Andy always getting picked on....ALWAYS! He hasn't really received enough appreciation from anyone on this board since he came back from his injury and he's the only defenseman besides Martin and sometimes Oduya that has been playing decent.

But I guess since we can't give up CRAP in a trade (although other teams seem to do it)....we'll just give up the one plus on our defense.

BTW - Since this is my opinion, feel free to criticize...but be nice about it. Wouldn't want to upset anyone when I comment back! :sarcasm:

It's a forum. Don't like critical analysis, don't click on the thread.

Right back at ya buddy! And there's ZERO sarcasm with that!

So were going to lose the only one who has potential on the team??

Personally I'd like to get rid of our entire defense and start from scratch, however that's not possible.

I'm just tired of Andy always getting picked on....ALWAYS! He hasn't really received enough appreciation from anyone on this board since he came back from his injury and he's the only defenseman besides Martin and sometimes Oduya that has been playing decent.

But I guess since we can't give up CRAP in a trade (although other teams seem to do it)....we'll just give up the one plus on our defense.

Ok, I get your point. But you have to give to get and like you say, upgrading the whole defence isn't possible.

The reason you won't see me ragging on Whitey, Salvador and Oduya is because they cannot be traded. White has a NTC, Salvador has a contract that makes him impossible to trade and Oduya is essentially worthless being a UFA. On top of that Martin is our best defenceman and I see no reason to trade him. We lack that kind of quality depth.

That's not to say I think that I think White, Sal and Oduya have been bad. They are doing exactly what I expected and that is why I consider them all top 4 defenceman.

The whole point is that, in order to upgrade that top 4, a GM will look at our defence and will want someone back with good upside and a cheap contract. Andy Greene, somebody who simply isn't living up to that potential here. He gets sheltered minutes, limited power play time and seems to lack a lot of confidence.

We have players of similar upside on the farm (Eckford, Salmela and Corrente) and we just drafted Burlon who is likely to head down the same path. It's not like we would be giving up a guy from a position of weakness.

I'm done on this subject, the defence as is will not take us far at all.

The final step has yet to occur: Stevens un-retires for the remainder of the season once Marty starts practicing again.

Ok, I get your point. But you have to give to get and like you say, upgrading the whole defence isn't possible.

The reason you won't see me ragging on Whitey, Salvador and Oduya is because they cannot be traded. White has a NTC, Salvador has a contract that makes him impossible to trade and Oduya is essentially worthless being a UFA. On top of that Martin is our best defenceman and I see no reason to trade him. We lack that kind of quality depth.

That's not to say I think that I think White, Sal and Oduya have been bad. They are doing exactly what I expected and that is why I consider them all top 4 defenceman.

The whole point is that, in order to upgrade that top 4, a GM will look at our defence and will want someone back with good upside and a cheap contract. Andy Greene, somebody who simply isn't living up to that potential here. He gets sheltered minutes, limited power play time and seems to lack a lot of confidence.

We have players of similar upside on the farm (Eckford, Salmela and Corrente) and we just drafted Burlon who is likely to head down the same path. It's not like we would be giving up a guy from a position of weakness.

I'm done on this subject, the defence as is will not take us far at all.

I guess we're watching 2 totally different games than.

Whatever, to each his own...moving on because I'll NEVER win this battle on here.

enough of this..this thread needs more Carrie

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/kurtenblog/carrie2.jpg

I don't understand all the hate against Mottau, either. Then again, I'm a hockey n00b. I looked up some stats and he's definitely not a scorer (9 pts) but he's +16. That's in the top 20 overall, 8th for defenseman. Is the plus/minus category not statistically relevant?

Mottau doesnt deserve the "hate" that you speak of. I think a lot of it stems from people's perception of him last year, when he was essentially a NHL rookie at an advanced age...... he still made rookie mistakes. Mottau has really improved impressively over the course of the last year though. In my mind, he went from a guy clinging to a job to a guy who belongs on the last pairing.



I'm just tired of Andy always getting picked on....ALWAYS! He hasn't really received enough appreciation from anyone on this board since he came back from his injury and he's the only defenseman besides Martin and sometimes Oduya that has been playing decent.


Okay, now here's where I have to very strongly disagree with you. WTH is Andy Greene doing that makes you think he's playing well? He has contributed absolutely nothing offensively and he is adequate at best on defense (burned again last night).

Since "he came back from his injury" as you noted, he has played THIRTEEN games, in which he is a -2 with only 1 point (a secondary assist). Keep in mind the Devils have outscored their opponents by a score of 36 - 31 during that stretch. Also keep in mind, despite getting significant powerplay time during that stretch (Over 23 full minutes of ice time) he has recorded exactly zero powerplay points.

At this point, I think it's more appropriate to discuss whether or not he is a lock to stay in the starting lineup, rather than why he isnt receiving praise.

Despite people mocking Brookbank, how much less would he have contributed during the last 13 games had he played?

What about Salmela racking up points impressively in the AHL?

At what point do you make a switch from Greene since he isnt adding much?

I'm tired of hearing this defense being called "AHL-caliber". We're 6th in the league in GA, without our Hall of Fame netminder, so obviously this group isn't hiding behind Marty. And I hate when our own posters call it the "system". The system has changed. Call it "coaching". Our coaches do an excellent job of coaching up defensemen and putting them in positions to succeed.

In any other sport, undrafted free agents, underdogs and career minor leagues would be great stories (Fernando Tatis anybody?). With the Devils fans, they're still pieces of **** and worthless. Go figure.

No **** we need a top pairing defenseman if we hope to go far in the postseason, I said this, along with others, since September. I'd love Kaberle on the Devils. But I also said that this group is adequate enough to help the team contend during the season.

In a cap world, you can't expect a new great defenseman to arrive every year, and you can't expect sexy names all the time. Guys like Mottau are cheap and do nice jobs on the third pairing. What sense does it make to spend more money on another guy when you have cheap, servicable guys here. Yes, the guy may be more well known and do a slightly better job, but it isn't cap sensible. You may say that Mottau wouldn't play on teams with a great defense. Well, he'd play on Detroit. Mottau is much better than a guy like Andreas Lilja who I have never seen play well.

Mottau doesnt deserve the "hate" that you speak of. I think a lot of it stems from people's perception of him last year, when he was essentially a NHL rookie at an advanced age...... he still made rookie mistakes. Mottau has really improved impressively over the course of the last year though. In my mind, he went from a guy clinging to a job to a guy who belongs on the last pairing.




Okay, now here's where I have to verystrongly disagree with you. WTH is Andy Greene doing that makes you think he's playing well? He has contributed absolutely nothing offensively and he is adequate at best on defense (burned again last night).

Since "he came back from his injury" as you noted, he has played THIRTEEN games, in which he is a -2 with only 1 point (a secondary assist). Keep in mind the Devils have outscored their opponents by a score of 36 - 31 during that stretch. Also keep in mind, despite getting significant powerplay time during that stretch (Over 23 full minutes of ice time) he has recorded exactly zero points.

At this point, I think it's more appropriate to discuss whether or not he is a lock to stay in the starting lineup, rather than why he isnt receiving praise.

Despite people's mocking of Brookbank, how much less would he have contributed during the last 13 games had he played?

What about Salmela racking up points impressively in the AHL?

At what point do you make a switch from Greene since he isnt adding much?


You've had a HATRED for Andy Greene for a long time now and I understand that I like him, so maybe somewhere we can find middle ground....however I think your HATRED strongly outweighs everything that I've ever posted FOR Greene.

I'm done with this topic...like I said earlier, I will NEVER win a thread regarding Andy Greene around here....so yup, here's the white towel...I'm throwin' it in! :surrender

oh carrie

In a cap world, you can't expect a new great defenseman to arrive every year, and you can't expect sexy names all the time. Guys like Mottau are cheap and do nice jobs on the third pairing. What sense does it make to spend more money on another guy who may be more well known, when he won't do a much better job than what you have here?

Are you nuts? We aren't talking about Marc Bergeron here... It's a perennial all-star who is one of the best PP QB's in the entire league.

As for the system thing, I mentioned that in jest and suggested it was coaching that is making these guys look serviceable. Mottau has been decent this year sure, I'll give you that. But you need better than decent to contend for a cup. Imagine Kaberle or someone of similar ilk under that kind of coaching.

Our defence has been exposed every year since the lockout, and yes Kaberle isn't going to turn that around instantly. But Lou has put together a nice core of Martin, Oduya, White and Salvador. Adding Kaberle to this team with the offensive depth it has, the experienced veterans it has and the worlds best goaltender, makes me that much more hopeful of our chances.

HF DEVILS BOARD TRYING TO SOLVE ROSTER ISSUES:

SCmF4-PYAHA

(just go to 1:30 if you're a type A person)

Are you nuts? We aren't talking about Marc Bergeron here... It's a perennial all-star who is one of the best PP QB's in the entire league.

As for the system thing, I mentioned that in jest and suggested it was coaching that is making these guys look serviceable. Mottau has been decent this year sure, I'll give you that. But you need better than decent to contend for a cup. Imagine Kaberle or someone of similar ilk under that kind of coaching.

Our defence has been exposed every year since the lockout, and yes Kaberle isn't going to turn that around instantly. But Lou has put together a nice core of Martin, Oduya, White and Salvador. Adding Kaberle to this team with the offensive depth it has, the experienced veterans it has and the worlds best goaltender, makes me that much more hopeful of our chances.

Woah. First off, I'm talking about people being unhappy with Mottau, and just pointing out that if you replace him with another 3rd pairing defenseman who is more expensive (Dmitri Kalinin anybody/), you won't see much of a difference, or you might see a dropoff. I wasn't talking about Kaberle in that part of the post. I was talking about the general feeling on this board that guys like Mottau are scrubs.

You post previously mentioning people jumping down your throat and you're doing the same here. I said that I'd love Kaberle on this team, we need a top pairing defenseman and he fits the bill.

Win one...lose one...win one...lose two...win one...lose one...and so it goes on.

The Devils are not a top team, and right now they're really struggling. They're barely a .500 team.

When Marty went down, most of us would've probably settled for that and taken our current record without even thinking about it. But..considering how this team played and has the ability to play they're underachieving right now, even without Marty in goal.

I would've been happy with this record if someone asked me if I would've taken it at the time when Marty got injured. I'm not very happy about it now though. The last 10+ games have been really bad.

Not for nothing but just say we were to trade Greene as part of a deal for Kaberle. Greene is 26, Kaberle is 30. It's not like we'd be trading some 19 year old dman we just drafted 8th overall for a 36 year old rental. I think Greene is a pretty good dman, and I was someone that had him pegged as the next Rafalski, but can anyone honestly say he'll be where Kaberle is at in the next 4 years? That'd be some development.

On a sidenote I love the chaos that has ensued around here since the Shanahan signing :laugh:

carrie?

well this thread went down hill pretty quickly. i remember when we thought we were in the tavares hunt. now we are complaining about not being a top team without our franchise player. im just happy we are still in the playoff hunt.

You've had a HATRED for Andy Greene for a long time now and I understand that I like him, so maybe somewhere we can find middle ground....however I think your HATRED strongly outweighs everything that I've ever posted FOR Greene.

I'm done with this topic...like I said earlier, I will NEVER win a thread regarding Andy Greene around here....so yup, here's the white towel...I'm throwin' it in! :surrender


My asking you why you think Andy Greene is playing "excellent" (your words) equates to my "HATING" him? I fail to see the logic there.

I think it's a pretty tall order for anyone that watches Devils games to suggest Greene is a guy who has a safe job in the lineup (my opinion). He hasnt produced, and like any other job on the team if you dont produce they should insert someone who might.

Our young stars have been great so far. Parise and Zajac especially. Even David Clarkson's got 16 points already. Rolston had a slow start, made even slower by the injury, but he's starting to get it going and help out on the powerplay. I thought the season was done after Marty went down, but man, our offense has really stepped it up like we haven't seen theese last coupple last year. If the offense keeps up the pace that it's going, then there's no doubt in my mind we could be Cup contenders.

More than anything I am happy to see the Devils adapting to the new NHL and their strengths - which is our forwards - with a more of a forecheck style of play. And proud of them being where they are in the standings after losing Marty.

As for the Mottau hate - the guy does what is expected as a third pair, can't really complain about him.

Pando is teh sux and Zach is teh coolest.

My asking you why you think Andy Greene is playing "excellent" (your words) equates to my "HATING" him? I fail to see the logic there.

I think it's a pretty tall order for anyone that watches Devils games to suggest Greene is a guy who has a safe job in the lineup (my opinion). He hasnt produced, and like any other job on the team if you dont produce they should insert someone who might.

How can one make such a BOLD statement like that? What has Andy done that has been SO terrible in your opinion? For you to say that if he isn't producing he should be replaced, how do you feel about the other players who aren't producing? Oh let me guess, it's a different story right, because they play different roles, right? Gimme a break!

Andy has ONLY played in 19 games...in those 19 games, he is a +2, has 1 goal, 6 assists, and 10 penalty minutes.

When Andy first came back from the injury he wasn't playing on the PP so saying that his PP time has diminished doesn't mean anything. None of us ever know what the PP lines are going to be, so saying 1 specific person is getting less ice time isn't really saying much at all.

My comment regarding me KNOWING you hate Andy comes from the attacks you have on the guy every time myself or Moondragon post positive things on Andy. Every single freakin' time I know I can count on you for something negative. Thanks for not letting me down.

I will say one thing in defense of Andy Greene. In the minutes he is playing at even strength it seems that 90% of that time he is on the ice with the madden pando line....pretty hard for any D-man to produce offense on the ice with that line. I dont think he is playing bad and wish they would pair him up with Motts or oduya. it seemed that when he was paired with either one the pairing seemed to click better. I have never been a big fan of doing the one defensive guy and one offensive guy in the pairing... I think it hinders the offensive guy more than people realize.
On the PP I wish they would set him on on his one timer side as an alternative shot when the Rolsoton option is taken away.

My thoughts are our first two lines, minus Langenbrunner are fine. I don't really like him Parise and Zajac, I don't think he can keep up with Zajac and Parise. He fits in well with them even though he's slower, so I guess its not really a complaint, just a room for improvement. Our defensemen need to clear the puck better. I've seen far to many tip tries or reverses to an empty corner when they could just lift it up the boards. Clemmer leaves a lot of rebounds in the front, but has gotten better recently at that. I think our team is 95% fine as is. Sure I'd love a top 2 pairing defensemen, but at what cost? I think Shanny will be a great addition to our powerplay that clicks for a week then is off for a game or two. Otherwise, so far so good.

How can one make such a BOLD statement like that? What has Andy done that has been SO terrible in your opinion? For you to say that if he isn't producing he should be replaced, how do you feel about the other players who aren't producing?

To say he hasnt been producing isnt a bold statement, it's simply a factual statement. Other than Greene and Pando, it's my personal opinion that I dont think there are other players that fall into the category of being in danger of being replaced, but I'll let others debate that.



Andy has ONLY played in 19 games...in those 19 games, he is a +2, has 1 goal, 6 assists, and 10 penalty minutes.


Yup, and 5 of those 7 points came in 2 games.

But lets dive in and examine these points. What do we find? A soft goal that Johnson should have easily stopped and 5 of 6 of his assists are secondary assists. I simply dont know what to tell you if you think this guy is playing well.

And I certainly dont "hate" the guy. Everyone should want to like him. He's sortof a Cinderella story as not many guys play for Miami of Ohio and make it into the NHL.
But at the end of the day, you need to produce to keep that NHL spot.

Again, you've got Brookbank collecting dust and he probably deserves a chance to get into a game, you've got Salmela piling up goals and assists at Lowell, and you've got Leach who plays a better defensive game.

Why shouldnt any 1 of these 3 not deserve a hell of a shot at Greene's spot?

-Bummed with Pandolfo, he's better than this. Madden, too.
-Key forwards: ELIAS, Parise, Zubrus, Rupp, Holik.
-Defense: Leach for sticking when we needed him too, Salvador and White for hitting *****es. Oduya is still inconsistent, P-Mart could be a tad better.
-BRENT SUTTER ONLY SMILES WHEN HE WANTS TO.
-Clemmer!
-Unkie Lou gonna make a twadey?

-Bummed with Pandolfo, he's better than this. Madden, too.
-Key forwards: ELIAS, Parise, Zubrus, Rupp, Holik.
-Defense: Leach for sticking when we needed him too, Salvador and White for hitting *****es. Oduya is still inconsistent, P-Mart could be a tad better.
-BRENT SUTTER ONLY SMILES WHEN HE WANTS TO.
-Clemmer!
-Unkie Lou gonna make a twadey?

Did someone actually load the entire devils forum into copernic summarizer and reduce the output to 50 words? I always wondered what would happen with that.

Our team is good, really good, but right now we are way too inconsistent to compete with the top teams in the league (Bruins, Sharks, Wings, etc). Our forward group is the deepest, with regards to talent depth, it's been in a while. We still need another defenseman, I think. Oh, and of course, our franchise player back won't hurt.

I think if we make the playoffs, we have the ability to go far with our roster - and if we add a big name defenseman, we could become a favorite.

Our team is good, really good, but right now we are way too inconsistent to compete with the top teams in the league (Bruins, Sharks, Wings, etc). Our forward group is the deepest, with regards to talent depth, it's been in a while. We still need another defenseman, I think. Oh, and of course, our franchise player back won't hurt.

I think if we make the playoffs, we have the ability to go far with our roster - and if we add a big name defenseman, we could become a favorite.

This is the key. A playoff spot is nowhere secure, especielly when a team is playing so poorly at times like the Devils have been lately. Teams below us are all closing in. Doesn't take a lot to fall out of a playoff position and the Devils have to wake up and realise that.

Of course you can't be on the top of your game for 82 games, but you can't have these prolonged slumps either. Just can't afford it like they once could. Times have changed.

This is the key. A playoff spot is nowhere secure, especielly when a team is playing so poorly at times like the Devils have been lately. Teams below us are all closing in. Doesn't take a lot to fall out of a playoff position and the Devils have to wake up and realise that.

Of course you can't be on the top of your game for 82 games, but you can't have these prolonged slumps either. Just can't afford it like they once could. Times have changed.
Each one of the last few seasons, the Devils have had one of these prolonged slumps. I'm not really worried about making the playoffs.

I am, however, worried that this season is taking essentially the same course as the last few have. There is nothing worse for a franchise than a series of consecutive first round exits.

There is nothing worse for a franchise than a series of consecutive first round exits.

I think the folks in Columbus would celebrate if that happened. :sarcasm:

Its almost absurd that at the halfway point last year we had less points and were 2nd in the Conference.

I think the folks in Columbus would celebrate if that happened. :sarcasm:
The first first-round playoff exit is fine. A succession of them is terrible.

How can one make such a BOLD statement like that? What has Andy done that has been SO terrible in your opinion? For you to say that if he isn't producing he should be replaced, how do you feel about the other players who aren't producing? Oh let me guess, it's a different story right, because they play different roles, right? Gimme a break!

Andy has ONLY played in 19 games...in those 19 games, he is a +2, has 1 goal, 6 assists, and 10 penalty minutes.

When Andy first came back from the injury he wasn't playing on the PP so saying that his PP time has diminished doesn't mean anything. None of us ever know what the PP lines are going to be, so saying 1 specific person is getting less ice time isn't really saying much at all.

My comment regarding me KNOWING you hate Andy comes from the attacks you have on the guy every time myself or Moondragon post positive things on Andy. Every single freakin' time I know I can count on you for something negative. Thanks for not letting me down.
I think because CJ wants to "Go Greene" it clouds her judgement. :sarcasm:
I personally think AG is fine on this team.

I think because CJ wants to "Go Greene" it clouds her judgement. :sarcasm:
I personally think AG is fine on this team.

CJ wears glasses most of the time:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/cjs.jpg

Each one of the last few seasons, the Devils have had one of these prolonged slumps. I'm not really worried about making the playoffs.

I am, however, worried that this season is taking essentially the same course as the last few have. There is nothing worse for a franchise than a series of consecutive first round exits.

Eh.......98, 99 and then we won the cup in 2000.

I think because CJ wants to "Go Greene" it clouds her judgement. :sarcasm:
I personally think AG is fine on this team.

At least I can ADMIT that I like him. If he would just admit that he can't stand the guy I could move on. It's OBVIOUS!

CJ wears glasses most of the time:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/cjs.jpg

Yup and I'll be wearing them on Friday so you better watch out! ;)

Mike Mottau has a plus/minus rating of 15...good enough to be 26th in the league, and tied for 8th among defensemen...He's signed dirt cheap and more than earns his paycheck. His one goal and eight assists put him on pace for about 18 points, making him a key offensive contributor amongst our d-men. He knows his limits, and plays well positionally all the time. He works hard every game, and is always working to improve himself, always has been ever since his AHL days and will continue to get better. Mike Mottau is perhaps an unsung hero of the New Jersey Devils. The guy can just flat out play.

Mike Mottau has a plus/minus rating of 15...good enough to be 26th in the league, and tied for 8th among defensemen...He's signed dirt cheap and more than earns his paycheck. His one goal and eight assists put him on pace for about 18 points, making him a key offensive contributor amongst our d-men. He knows his limits, and plays well positionally all the time. He works hard every game, and is always working to improve himself, always has been ever since his AHL days and will continue to get better. Mike Mottau is perhaps the unsung hero of the New Jersey Devils. The guy can just flat out play.




i dont think id go that far

i dont think id go that far

I was being sarcastic. He's a good player to have though strictly as a bottom pairing/6th dmen

At least I can ADMIT that I like him. If he would just admit that he can't stand the guy I could move on. It's OBVIOUS!

Decaf

http://www.shinyshiny.tv/needz%20decaf.jpg

At least I can ADMIT that I like him. If he would just admit that he can't stand the guy I could move on. It's OBVIOUS!

Try talking about Johnny Oduya with the guy then....:help::shakehead

Try talking about Johnny Oduya with the guy then....:help::shakehead

I was spot on about Oduya. He played like absolute crap for about 8 or 9 games from the end of November through about the midpoint of December. Since then, happily he has been playing much better.

Notice, that I suggested that Greene and Pando are the only 2 Devils IMO that are in current danger of losing their spot in the lineup.

There is a difference between objectively rating a player's on-ice performance and being an outrageously apolegetic fanboy.

I was spot on about Oduya. He played like absolute crap for about 8 or 9 games from the end of November through about the midpoint of December. Since then, happily he has been playing much better.

Notice, that I suggested that Greene and Pando are the only 2 Devils IMO that are in current danger of losing their spot in the lineup.

There is a difference between objectively rating a player's on-ice performance and being an outrageously apolegetic fanboy.

You're the ONLY person that issues with Greene....so if I'm going one way, you're going in the complete opposite direction!

As far as the needing decaf comment.....take your own advice!

You're the ONLY person that (has) issues with Greene...

How do you know? I havent seen a thread or anything. I'm not saying the guy has been an embarrassment or is awful, but I am saying he hasnt been good and IMO someone else should get a chance to play.

Lets again examine Andy Greene's statistics

LIFETIME 101 Games, 4 Goals, 19 assists, 23 points
2008-2009 19 Games, 1 Goal, 6 assists, 7 points

So even if you double his games played, his offensive statistics this year arent really that different from Colin friggin' White, and Greene is a guy who is supposed to chip in on offense, and he just isnt doing it. Hell, Greene has zero powerplay points, despite logging >23 minutes on the powerplay so far. IMO, he has been bad on the powerplay, takes too long to shoot, and often fires the puck into dmans shinpads.

So again, why do you think Greene should automatically keep his job when you have:

Jay Leach - Much better overall defensive game than Greene, and a guy that gained Sutter's confidence so much defensively that he began to use him in Shorthanded situations, which he does not do with Greene.

Anssi Salmela - 22 games, 6 goals, 9 assists, 15 points, 51 shots. Much better overall offensive game than Greene, and a guy piling up goals and assists in the AHL, who (importantly)routinely gets the puck on net on the powerplay (2.3spg as a Dman).Greene's SPG? 0.53 (only 10 shots in 19 games)

Sheldon Brookbank - Doesnt excel at anything in particular, but has been loyally rotting on the scatch pile all year and at least deserves a chance to play once in a blue moon.


In the event that you should choose to respond, please do not just say, "OMG, you HATE Greene" or something. Nothing could be further from the truth; I hope he has a goal and 2 assists tonight, because it means the Devils will have scored at least 3 goals. I took the time to lay out a very compelling and reasonably argued opinion on why I think someone should be given a chance to take Greene's spot in the lineup, so please tell me IYO why you think I'm wrong (which you clearly do).

Why must you folks torture CJ with your debates... you know she has sentimental attachment to AG and no amount of statistics or logic will sway her from her stance.

The heart wants what the heart wants... just let her be.

This is reminding me of everyone trying to convince Harrison to forget about Kaleigh - and you all see where that ended up.

I've already thrown in the towel along time ago and realized you are EXACTLY LIKE MY FATHER!!!

I will NEVER win anything against you whether I'm right, wrong or indifferent!

So congratulations, you've reached DAD status!

Why must you folks torture CJ with your debates... you know she has sentimental attachment to AG and no amount of statistics or logic will sway her from her stance.

The heart wants what the heart wants... just let her be.

This is reminding me of everyone trying to convince Harrison to forget about Kaleigh - and you all see where that ended up.

Yup and just like HF, I'm not giving up hope! Andy Greene FTW!!

Why must you folks torture CJ with your debates... you know she has sentimental attachment to AG and no amount of statistics or logic will sway her from her stance.

The heart wants what the heart wants... just let her be.

This is reminding me of everyone trying to convince Harrison to forget about Kaleigh - and you all see where that ended up.

Well that's fine then, but I would like to hear other people's opinions on it, because I really think I have a very good point here. Maybe 100% of people will disagree with me entirely, but I think if I were coach I would talk to Andy like a man and tell him he has 4 or 5 more games to step it up or Leach/Salmela/Brookbank is going to have a go at it.



So congratulations, you've reached DAD status!

Doesnt Dad have a Salmela jersey? :sarcasm:

Well that's fine then, but I would like to hear other people's opinions on it, because I really think I have a very good point here. Maybe 100% of people will disagree with me entirely, but I think if I were coach I would talk to Andy like a man and tell him he has 4 or 5 more games to step it up or Leach/Salmela/Brookbank is going to have a go at it.

But people have seen us going back and forth and no one has really commented against Andy.

Doesnt Dad have a Salmela jersey? :sarcasm:

Greene, Martin and Salmela!

But people have seen us going back and forth and no one has really commented against Andy.

That's not scientific proof, they might just fear the cougar :dunno:

http://goatmilk.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/cougar.jpeg

That's not scientific proof, they might just fear the cougar :dunno:

http://goatmilk.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/cougar.jpeg

You're the only one who gives me trouble, so I gotta give you props!

You're the only one who gives me trouble, so I gotta give you props!

Oh I'll give you trouble alright.............lots of trouble.

Oh I'll give you trouble alright.............lots of trouble.

Oh boy.....Chris Hanson is needed immediately!! ;)

Oh boy.....Chris Hanson is needed immediately!! ;)

Trouble in this form

http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/episodeguide/3F09.jpg

Well, it finally seems like that finally fizzled out a bit. Everyone is so edgy recently...

Well, it finally seems like that finally fizzled out a bit. Everyone is so edgy recently...

I'm fighting with you next!;)

I'm fighting with you next!;)

I must be doing something right then...:naughty:

I'm fighting with you next!;)

He's going to like that way too much to be normal.

Did someone actually load the entire devils forum into copernic summarizer and reduce the output to 50 words? I always wondered what would happen with that.

http://ssg.nsw.greens.org.au/modules/PagEd/medipics/Atom_Bomb.jpg

You're the only one who gives me trouble, so I gotta give you props!

Yeah, and I <3 cj really. ;)

Yeah, and I <3 cj really. ;)

I <3 you too brit! :nod: