Tokarski the WJC version of Kerry Collins?

Watching him in goal reminds me of watching Kerry Collins lead the Ravens to their Superbowl XXXV victory. Neither "great" nor "bad" in anyway, makes a couple of mental lapses, but at non-critical junctures and seems to 'elevate his game' (or maybe just his concentration) as the pressure mounts.

I don't really see him being a deciding factor either way in tomorrow night's game.

Wasn't Dilfer Baltimore's QB that year?

being that Kerry Collins was on the losing end of that superbowl matchup as he was playing for the Giants, I guess I can kinda sorta see what you meant by him leading the Ravens to victory.

being that Kerry Collins was on the losing end of that superbowl matchup as he was playing for the Giants, I guess I can kinda sorta see what you meant by him leading the Ravens to victory.

lol, yeah I got my QB's messed up. Dilfer is who I meant. If Canada loses maybe the Collins thing will hold? Let's hope not.

Everything I know tells me that Tokarski being in net tomorrow night is a mistake.

Then again, he's a good goaltender and he's bound to have a good game eventually after two shoddy performances against USA and RUS

More like Red Light Racicot...

Everything I know tells me that Tokarski being in net tomorrow night is a mistake.

Then again, he's a good goaltender and he's bound to have a good game eventually after two shoddy performances against USA and RUS

what makes the backup goalie better?

If the coach switches goalies, it'd hurt Tokarski's confidence in the long run.....and possibly the team in the game. He is the No.1.

No he's not, Collins did it in the Pros.

2006 Telus Cup Champion
2008 Memorial Cup Champion

The amount of ignorance that is on these boards is amazing nowadays. Questioning this kids skill and ability when he has won so much already in his young career makes me wonder if people here know anything about hockey at all. Tokarski is a winner pure and simple. People who think they are going to start Pickard are stupid and Delusional.

Wasn't Dilfer Baltimore's QB that year?

You are right, it was Trent Dilfer not Collins.

2006 Telus Cup Champion
2008 Memorial Cup Champion

The amount of ignorance that is on these boards is amazing nowadays. Questioning this kids skill and ability when he has won so much already in his young career makes me wonder if people here know anything about hockey at all. Tokarski is a winner pure and simple. People who think they are going to start Pickard are stupid and Delusional.

Finally someone with some brains.

2006 Telus Cup Champion
2008 Memorial Cup Champion

The amount of ignorance that is on these boards is amazing nowadays. Questioning this kids skill and ability when he has won so much already in his young career makes me wonder if people here know anything about hockey at all. Tokarski is a winner pure and simple. People who think they are going to start Pickard are stupid and Delusional.

Evidently they dont know much about football either. :laugh:

But ya, the amount of plain stupidity that gets regurgitated on this site is ridiculous. Its like people post topics simply for the sake of posting.

2006 Telus Cup Champion
2008 Memorial Cup Champion

The amount of ignorance that is on these boards is amazing nowadays. Questioning this kids skill and ability when he has won so much already in his young career makes me wonder if people here know anything about hockey at all. Tokarski is a winner pure and simple. People who think they are going to start Pickard are stupid and Delusional.

See this I don't get this line of defence for Tokarski. By this logic, we can't question Jeff Glass' skill and ability, even if he's a borderliner AHL goalie. Maybe Kelly Guard is a winner too? Accomplishments at lower levels do not prove a goalie is capable of succeeding at the next level, particularly winning the Telus Cup. What we do know is that at the WJC Canada is getting its weakest goaltending in recent memory. This is blatantly obvious in watching the games, and the statistics back it up easily. Even Jeff Glass was superior because while he was required to do little because of such a strong defence, he made all the saves he had to and that's something Tokarski hasn't been doing the last couple of games.

Now, do you switch goalies going into the Gold Medal Game? No, because that is a potentially destabilizing change and you have to stick with your guy and hope he plays his best when it counts. But that doesn't mean people are unjustified in criticizing Tokarski's poor play, or wishing we had a better, more talented goalie in net.

See this I don't get this line of defence for Tokarski. By this logic, we can't question Jeff Glass' skill and ability, even if he's a borderliner AHL goalie. Maybe Kelly Guard is a winner too? Accomplishments at lower levels do not prove a goalie is capable of succeeding at the next level, particularly winning the Telus Cup. What we do know is that at the WJC Canada is getting its weakest goaltending in recent memory. This is blatantly obvious in watching the games, and the statistics back it up easily. Even Jeff Glass was superior because while he was required to do little because of such a strong defence, he made all the saves he had to and that's something Tokarski hasn't been doing the last couple of games.

Now, do you switch goalies going into the Gold Medal Game? No, because that is a potentially destabilizing change and you have to stick with your guy and hope he plays his best when it counts. But that doesn't mean people are unjustified in criticizing Tokarski's poor play, or wishing we had a better, more talented goalie in net.

Yet hasnt lost.:shakehead

See this I don't get this line of defence for Tokarski. By this logic, we can't question Jeff Glass' skill and ability, even if he's a borderliner AHL goalie. Maybe Kelly Guard is a winner too? Accomplishments at lower levels do not prove a goalie is capable of succeeding at the next level, particularly winning the Telus Cup. What we do know is that at the WJC Canada is getting its weakest goaltending in recent memory. This is blatantly obvious in watching the games, and the statistics back it up easily. Even Jeff Glass was superior because while he was required to do little because of such a strong defence, he made all the saves he had to and that's something Tokarski hasn't been doing the last couple of games.

Now, do you switch goalies going into the Gold Medal Game? No, because that is a potentially destabilizing change and you have to stick with your guy and hope he plays his best when it counts. But that doesn't mean people are unjustified in criticizing Tokarski's poor play, or wishing we had a better, more talented goalie in net.

Saying someone else is better or more talented when they haven't played in that situation is quite frankly ignorant. Justifying a changed based on ignorance is not a good thing.

Yes it is Ignorant to say there are better and more talented goalies then Tokarski right now

I have to agree with Joe Hallenback.

But speaking of football, here's some inspiration..

WO4tIrjBDkk

Yet hasnt lost.:shakehead

Yup, trying to exercise foresight is definitely a pointless endeavour.

The fact Canada won against Russia had little to do with Tokarski and he wasn't the reason they won. They won in spite of his poor play and soft goals, which is not what you want to say about your goaltender. He looked shaky the entire game and the big plays were not big saves by him but plays by others, particularly Eberle.

I'm not saying I'd go with Pickard, just that it's undeniable that Tokarski has played poorly and that Canada is receiving its weakest goaltending in a long time, which is frustrating when a very good and probably more talented goalie in Pickard was not used. Tokarski doesn't need to lose in order to validate criticism of his poor play, certainly not when he's yet to face the biggest test in Sweden, with a goalie in Markstrom who blows him out of the water, not to mention the netminders from the US and Russia as well.

Saying someone else is better or more talented when they haven't played in that situation is quite frankly ignorant. Justifying a changed based on ignorance is not a good thing.

Yes it is Ignorant to say there are better and more talented goalies then Tokarski right now

Once again, I'm not advocating a change. It's neither practical nor realistic at this point. But answering to justified criticisms of Tokarski's poor play solely by pointing to the Telus Cup and Memorial Cup is logically bankrupt. Has he won at lower levels? Yes. Did Jeff Glass win at the WJC? Yes, in more solid fashion than Tokarski will have if Canada wins tonight. Has Jeff Glass' WHL and WJC success continued at the professional level no? Did Kelly Guard do everything Tokarski did at a previous Memorial Cup? Yes. Did it make him a good professional goalie? Definitely not.

The point of the comparisons: previous success doesn't guarantee future success in more challenging situations. How well Tokarski did at the Telus Cup doesn't mean Canada's going to win the Gold with Tokarski in goal. Whether or not Tokarski is less talented than Pickard or Glass or Mason or whoever is beside the point. Canada is heading into its toughest challenge yet, against the best team with a goalie far superior to the US or Russia. When Canada's getting its weakest goaltending in recent memory and is heading into a gold medal game where in that traditional strength, they are unquestionably much weaker, it's not ignorant in the least to express concern and ask questions about the situation between the pipes for Canada.

Yes it is Ignorant to say there are better and more talented goalies then Tokarski right now

Markstrom is a better and more talented goalie than Tokarski. If Canada wins tonight, they will win despite having Tokarski in net, not because they have Tokarski in net. The one thing Tokarski has going for him is he makes the big saves when his team needs them (like in OT and the shootout), but he shouldn't be putting his team in that position in the first place.

It is clearly too late to switch horses. But if Canada falls behind against the Swedes, it is going to be very difficult to come back with Markstrom in net for the Swedes. The second guessing will start.

The most baffling question w.r.t. goaltenders is why Mike Murphy was not even invited to camp. I know Pat Quinn like bigger players, and Murphy is somewhat diminutive, but Tokarski is not exactly a monster at 5'11". Murphy has better numbers and is by far the best goalie in the OHL, maybe the CHL right now.

I was thinking Jack Morris.

Chet Pickard will probably be a better goalie in the long run but thus far in their careers, he hasn't proven to be remarkably better.

Canadians have been spoiled by great goaltending prospects for a long time now and guys like Justin Pogge who played the best hockey he'll ever play over the course of a couple games.

If Canada is going to win this time around, they have to turn the game into a track meet and win it 5-4 or 6-5. We're not used to that in Canada but that's the team we have this year.

You are right, it was Trent Dilfer not Collins.

Collins was the Giants' QB and pretty much choked hard and handed the Ravens the Superbowl. That is the reference I believe, or the OP is very confused.

Yet hasnt lost.:shakehead

Well............barely. We can thank the Russian looking for an empty net goal and icing the puck. We can thank Rayn Ellis for his clutch play in keeping the puck in the Russian end by stopping the puck before it went out of the zone with 20 seconds to go in the game. We can thank Tavares for shooting the puck on net after the scramble along the boards. We can thank Eberle. Even in the shootout Tokarski was beat, but the Russian hit the post. He made a nice save at the end, but he has been noticealy shaky to say the least.

The only reason it's a bad idea to put Pickard in would be in any way shape or form if this messes with the team chemistry. But they've had Pickard in there already two games. The goalie switch thing can work when another one struggles. It worked with Pete Peeters in the '84 Canada Cup. It worked in the '72 Series. As for me if I were a betting man I would put Tokarski in there based on his resume and that fact that he's due. But there is absolutely nothing that Pickard has done to make you not trust him. So it goes both ways. Lets just win!

Collins was the Giants' QB and pretty much choked hard and handed the Ravens the Superbowl. That is the reference I believe, or the OP is very confused.

No, that wasn't the reference, as I clarified in my fourth post. I meant to compare him to Dilfer.

My whole point was that he was playing at about a neutral, not overly good, not overly bad, and that Canada's tournament wouldn't likely come down to goaltending (like Baltimore's playoffs didn't come down to Dilfer), it would be about the other matchups, and that Tokarski, like Dilfer, would be expected to basically not make any glaring mistakes, and not really be looked to as a difference maker.

I don't think he has, or will choke. I just think he's not going to be as influential to the outcome as goaltenders usually are. This is not a critique; at the same time I'm saying he won't do anything spectacular I'm also saying he won't melt down.

It is clearly too late to switch horses. But if Canada falls behind against the Swedes, it is going to be very difficult to come back with Markstrom in net for the Swedes. The second guessing will start.

The most baffling question w.r.t. goaltenders is why Mike Murphy was not even invited to camp. I know Pat Quinn like bigger players, and Murphy is somewhat diminutive, but Tokarski is not exactly a monster at 5'11". Murphy has better numbers and is by far the best goalie in the OHL, maybe the CHL right now.

by far better numbers?