Do you play Pickard or Tokarski vs Sweden?

I'm haven't been too confident in Tokarski the last 2 games..

What would you guys do?

He came up big at the end of both the U.S game and this one. I have my uneasiness about him but there is no way you make a change now.

I don't have full confidence in Tokarski either, but at this point you have to play him. He got the team this far.

I don't see why you'd change goalies at this point.

I don't have full confidence in Tokarski either, but at this point you have to play him. He got the team this far.

still though, I'd go with Pickard.

I might be the only one lol but I'd honestly go with him..

Anyone with any ****ing common sense will say Pickard. Stopping one every 5-6 shots just doesn't cut it! :help:

Tokarski...

Too late to go Pickard... you have to with the experience in this situation.

Anyone with any ****ing common sense will say Pickard. Stopping one every 5-6 shots just doesn't cut it! :help:


Wow... :shakehead

Im glad your not the coach.

It'll be Tokarski. He needs to play a lot better against Sweden or we're done.

Sadly there is no way you can throw Pickard in at this point.

I don't have full confidence in Tokarski either, but at this point you have to play him. He got the team this far.

You mean he almost cost us the last two games, right? :rant:

If they were going to make the change they had to do it for todays game and I was one who was in favor of that. There is no looking back now, sorry.

You mean he almost cost us the last two games, right? :rant:

Are you kidding me?

Yes he had a bad start against the US, but he was dynamite after...

In the Russia game, he wasn't great, and the 5th goal Russia scored was more fluky than anything...

It's too late to go Pickard... you need to ride the horse in Tokarski...

Tokarski hands down .. Pickard hasnt played in days .. and when he did he was rarely tested.

You must go with Tokarski now.

Not confident with Tokarski but I don't want to throw in a cold goalie in Pickard either. These last two games of adversity were nothing Chet Pickard has ever experienced, I think that experience will be key for the gold medal game come Monday.

Anyone with any ****ing common sense will say Pickard. Stopping one every 5-6 shots just doesn't cut it! :help:Canada will go with Tokarski. Our defense was at fault against Russia, not goaltending.

Are you kidding me?

Yes he had a bad start against the US, but he was dynamite after...

In the Russia game, he wasn't great, and the 5th goal Russia scored was more fluky than anything...

It's too late to go Pickard... you need to ride the horse in Tokarski...
Tokarski can't ****ing catch a cold! What do we have to lose really? The team is so nervous in front of him, it's not even funny. I feel terrible for the team and they're playing their hearts off but the goalie couldn't stop a ****ing beach ball in there! Get him out of there in a hurry!

We're pot committed already.

What do we have to lose really?

Umm a gold medel ? :shakehead

Pickard and it's not close. I feel like screaming every time someone shoots against Tokarski. He's brutal with rebounds, and I think one to many "great" shots have beaten him.

Go with Chet.

Tokarski can't ****ing catch a cold! What do we have to lose really? The team is so nervous in front of him, it's not even funny. I feel terrible for the team and they're playing their hearts off but the goalie couldn't stop a ****ing beach ball in there! Get him out of there in a hurry!

Are you kidding me? your blaming the horrible play of the defense on Tokarski?

Your a joke... Tokarski got us this far, and you give it to him... he has the experience in Championship games and has come through...

Did you forget how clutch he was against the US after those first 3 goals against him?.... did you forget the save on Colin Wilson?

Tokarski might have not had his best game against Russia, but he is not the first person to blame... Canada took too many stupid penalties and the defense was horrible.

Yah this thread is pretty ridiculous. You don't change goalies in the gold medal game.

I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE ON HIM!!!! :cry:

I always thought he was overrated and the Spokane team in front of him made him look good. I remember having an argument with a poster on Hfboards, telling him the only reason Spokane won in the memorial cup was because of a) Spokane's defence and b) Unice is more brutal. And he's not exactly a big guy who can cover the net well so he gets beat high a lot.

You mean he almost cost us the last two games, right? :rant:

Look, I agree he has been shaky, but realistically a goalie change will not happen.

We're pot committed already.

About sums it up. We're all in on Tokarski.
He has to play better in the finals or the river card will be the one to beat us.

Honestly, I think Tokarski has been terrible...that said, I think we have to start him in the gold medal game.

Pretty much guranteed that if you take a shot from the top of the faceoff circle on the rush, it's going in(is it 4 goals in the past two games that have beat him like that now?)

~Canucklehead~

As much as Pickard should be in the game, you absolutely cannot change goalies at this point. As many others have pointed out in this thread, it's too late to switch, you have to stick with Tokarski, even if Pickard may be a better choice.

Wow... :shakehead

Im glad your not the coach.

Are you kidding me? your blaming the horrible play of the defense on Tokarski?

Your a joke... Tokarski got us this far, and you give it to him... he has the experience in Championship games and has come through...

Did you forget how clutch he was against the US after those first 3 goals against him?.... did you forget the save on Colin Wilson?

Tokarski might have not had his best game against Russia, but he is not the first person to blame... Canada took too many stupid penalties and the defense was horrible.

You need to calm the heck down. People are entitled to their opinions and you're freaking at him just because his happens to be different than yours.

Tokarski has started off weak two games in a row and hurt us by giving up bad goals. We can't afford to do that against the Swedes. It's not as clear cut as some people think. Yes, Tokarski got us here but what if he starts the final like he did the last two games? Think we're going to come back from down 2-0 or **** our pants like MSP predicted? It's one hell of a tough decision.

Are you kidding me? your blaming the horrible play of the defense on Tokarski?

Your a joke... Tokarski got us this far, and you give it to him... he has the experience in Championship games and has come through...

Did you forget how clutch he was against the US after those first 3 goals against him?.... did you forget the save on Colin Wilson?

Tokarski might have not had his best game against Russia, but he is not the first person to blame... Canada took too many stupid penalties and the defense was horrible.

Tokarski didn't get us anywhere. The team in front of him bailed him. Tokarski has got us in trouble.

That's what you need to look past. He lets in way to many goals, has a couple flashy saves and he is amazing. Yes that was an amazing save, but he failed to make 4 other saves.

He's let in 9 goals in the past two games, 4.5 GAA vs the third and second best teams we will face. Pickard deserves a shot.

Anyways though, I agree a bit. Tokarski has looked pretty bad IMO (What were the final stats? I heard 20 shots when he had 4 goals so like 5 goals on 26 shots? He looked like he was scared of the puck almost) in 2 straight games, but you can't change goalies now.

Should have gone with Pickard from the start IMO (was shaking my head a bit at the decision) but whats done is done. We won't be getting the MVP of the tournament from the goal this year but I think he can get the job done and a change in net could have a very horrible outcome.

Tokarski for 3rd periods and beyond only, please.

The biggest problem for Pickard is that he's been sitting for days now and he played two of the easiest games of the tournament.

It's up to the coaches to get an idea for how the team feels about Tokarski. If they think he deserves to play, they're likely to play harder in front of him. If they have zero confidence in him and if Pickard's been practicing hard, I'd go to him.

The easy decision is to change goalies but it might not be the right one.

this is a tough one because you dont know how pickard will preform against an elite nation like sweden. hes been playing against teams like germany and the kazaks and will be playing such a meaningful one if chosen but tokarski hasnt provided gold medal goaltending so im going to go with pickard but its very close beetween the two

I think we should have gone with Pickard against the USA on the 31st but now that we are this far down the road we can't go switching up goaltenders. For one thing Pickard hasn't played since the Germany game which was what, a week ago now?

Tokarski doesn't instill too much confidence in me after the last couple games but I think it is the best option all things considered. The gold medal game is not the place to be making changes like that and it is not the time to be getting the rust out either.

Who honestly think Tokarski will improve against a way better team? He hasn't been good against two worse teams, and he is on pace to let in 6 goals, probably more against a dominant Swedish team.

Pickard can't be any worse than that, play him.

Tokarski will play and I have no doubt he will allow some more bad goals. They key will be getting a goal against Markstrom early.

That fifth goal the Russians got made me sick. How is he not tight to the post?

Sweden have some fast,highly skilled players and it will be a beauty.

You don't switch the goalie after he got the win against two of the three toughest opponents in the tournament. If they were going to make a change, the time to do it was after the game against the U.S. And well, after the save he made against Wilson, and the way he settled down after the fourth goal, he earned a shot to play tonight.

I don't think he's played his best game yet. He played really well against the Czechs, and he was fine after the third goal against the U.S.

If you make a change now, you risk losing the locker room.

I don't understand why everyone is saying a change is terrible. It isn't as if Pickard is a run of the mill back up goaltender. This is a player who many slotted into the position above Tokarski coming out of camp. I don't get the reasoning behind saying you "have to go with the guy who got you there." After one shakey performance, sure. But after a second, arguably worse, outing it is possible that something needs to be re-evualated. 9 goals in two games is not excusable, especially when at least half the goals are routine, and another couple aren't spectacular.


Tokarski is hurting the team. I mean, did you watch the game(s)? Three of the goals versus Russia were of the terrible variety, and the first three goals against the United States were of the excusable every now and then persuasion. Canada won both games despite their goaltending, not because of it. Against Russia, you need a big save after you score a goal, the opposite happened. Further, and most importantly, it is obvious the Canadian defense DOES NOT trust Tokarski at this point. Both my girlfriend and roommate made similar comments, and neither of them watch hockey regularly. In fact, at one point, I was explaining what a face-off is.

Who honestly think Tokarski will improve against a way better team?

I think he will honestly. I think he is dealing with some serious jitters but atleast being in the final will get him to relax more, and he will take confidence that he fought through when he wasnt on his game. I think he will surprise alot of people and really come up big in the final. I think Pickard should have played for Canada in the playoff round after the U.S game though, but now we are going to have to go with Tokarski at this point and I have confidence in him stepping up. Remember this guy was a Memorial Cup MVP, he may have been dissapointing here in a way but he is no chump.

Crap, voted Tokarski by accident.

I think he will honestly. I think he is dealing with some serious jitters but atleast being in the final will get him to relax more, and he will take confidence that he fought through when he wasnt on his game. I think he will surprise alot of people and really come up big in the final. I think Pickard should have played for Canada in the playoff round after the U.S game though, but now we are going to have to go with Tokarski at this point and I have confidence in him stepping up. Remember this guy was a Memorial Cup MVP, he may have been dissapointing here in a way but he is no chump.

What?

So, being in a situation where there's more pressure will make him relax more?

You don't switch the goalie after he got the win against two of the three toughest opponents in the tournament.

That's the thing, though. He didn't really win, he just avoided losing.

Tokarski. No choice. If that had been a quarterfinal, maybe there'd be some debate.

That's the thing, though. He didn't really win, he just avoided losing.

So true. Also, I don't understand the logic behind the argument that you can't play Pickard because Tokarski got you there. He didn't get the team there, they got him there.

It's tough. I voted for Pickard because I feel he's the better goalie, but he also hasn't played in a week, so the logical choice is Tokarski.

Tokarski.

Pickard would have been the better choice, but it's too late for a goalie switch at this point. TC has needs to cut their losses, realize that Tokarski is their guy, and not let Sweden get too many opportunities.

So true. Also, I don't understand the logic behind the argument that you can't play Pickard because Tokarski got you there. He didn't get the team there, they got him there.

With all their huge giveaways and poor defensive coverage? They haven't done him any favours and he did make a bunch of good saves in this game and especially late in the USA game.

Pickard hasn't played against tough opposition for a couple weeks now.

As much as I'm not a fan of Tokarski (just because he's been in net DOES NOT mean he himself has gotten the team anywhere), I think you have to play him. Anything else is a huge f***ing slap in the face.

What?

So, being in a situation where there's more pressure will make him relax more?

I think there is less pressure in a way since they are in the final atleast. Also many are now expecting them not to win and he is due for a really good performance.

The USA tried to keep riding a goalie who was clearly not on his game and look where it got them. It's just too big of a risk in my opinion. We know Tokarski is better than this but McCollum was better than he played as well. Fact of the matter is he's not getting the job done now. Do any of you feel confident we could win a 2-1 or 3-2 game against Sweden with Tokarski in nets right now? I'm not sure I do. If you play him and he gives up bad goals early like the last two games then you ****ed up and we probably lose the game. Simple as that. Pickard can be no worse.

Pickard.







:D

Tokarski didn't get us anywhere. The team in front of him bailed him. Tokarski has got us in trouble.

That's what you need to look past. He lets in way to many goals, has a couple flashy saves and he is amazing. Yes that was an amazing save, but he failed to make 4 other saves.

He's let in 9 goals in the past two games, 4.5 GAA vs the third and second best teams we will face. Pickard deserves a shot.

Personally, I'd go with Pickard at this point. Tokarski let in 2 weak goals today. The 3rd was weak, as was the 5th goal. Wasn't particularly strong against the US either. Canada scored 5 goals the last 2 games (2 ENs against the US) to bail out Tokarski.

Can Canada score 5 against Markstrom? Not going to bet on it.

But, this is Pat Quinn we are talking about, and as a Vancouverite, I can tell you that he is a loyal guy and he will ride into the gold medal game with Tokarski. No chance that Pickard will start. The media will ask Quinn about it on Sunday and Monday, but, he'll go with Tokarski.

still though, I'd go with Pickard.

I might be the only one lol but I'd honestly go with him..

This reminds of the year Michaud and LeClaire were in nets. Michaud was supposed to be the backup but was playing better than LeClaire. Pascal got the call in the final and just stunk. Canada would have won easily with Michaud in net but...No gold for Canada that year.

I vote Pickard

Tokarski...

Too late to go Pickard... you have to with the experience in this situation.

Do you realize that Pickard was a goal or 2 from doing what Tokarski did last year. Tri-Cities would have won the mem cup last year. Pickard is a better goalie. The future will mete that out.

You risk over-analyzing this situation. I think you go with Tokarski, you can't change in a goal-medal game. Now if he struggles, you can consider pulling him. But honestly I expect his best game of the tournament monday and don't think he'll be an issue. Well maybe a positive one...

Do you realize that Pickard was a goal or 2 from doing what Tokarski did last year. Tri-Cities would have won the mem cup last year. Pickard is a better goalie. The future will mete that out.

Thats not the point, Tokarski has played in 2 important games... he was great against the Americans and mediocre against the Russians (the 5th goal was fluky)... Pickard has not been put under any pressure... whereas Tokarski has won both games... it would be almost mentally retarded of Quinn to go with Pickard at this stage. And im pretty sure if Quinn wanted Pickard he would have put him in when the Americans scored 3 goals in 12 minutes, or even dressed him against Russia...

Pickard hasn't played a game in over a week... it would be more risky putting him in than Tokarski... im just glad %60+ of the people who voted Pickard are not coaching this team...

Thats not the point, Tokarski has played in 2 important games... he was great against the Americans and mediocre against the Russians (the 5th goal was fluky)... Pickard has not been put under any pressure... whereas Tokarski has won both games... it would be almost mentally retarded of Quinn to go with Pickard at this stage. And im pretty sure if Quinn wanted Pickard he would have put him in when the Americans scored 3 goals in 12 minutes, or even dressed him against Russia...

Pickard hasn't played a game in over a week... it would be more risky putting him in than Tokarski... im just glad %60+ of the people who voted Pickard are not coaching this team...

Thing is, Tokarski played bad in both games. Minus that robbery save against Wilson, he wasn't really tested all that much vs. the Americans after the first period. Tonight he wasn't tested too much either, but let in several goals that he needed to stop.

That being said, it's too late in the tournament to go back to Pickard.

Thing is, Tokarski played bad in both games. Minus that robbery save against Wilson, he wasn't really tested all that much vs. the Americans after the first period. Tonight he wasn't tested too much either, but let in several goals that he needed to stop.

That being said, it's too late in the tournament to go back to Pickard.

First of all...

Tokarski was brilliant against the Americans for the remainder of the game...

Second, I wouldn't put all the blame on Tokarski for the Russians... did you see how brutal Hickey and Tuebert were? Did you see all the dumb penalties and plays made by the defense?... no, because the goalie is the easiest scapegoat.

Thats not the point, Tokarski has played in 2 important games... he was great against the Americans and mediocre against the Russians (the 5th goal was fluky)... Pickard has not been put under any pressure... whereas Tokarski has won both games... it would be almost mentally retarded of Quinn to go with Pickard at this stage. And im pretty sure if Quinn wanted Pickard he would have put him in when the Americans scored 3 goals in 12 minutes, or even dressed him against Russia...

Pickard hasn't played a game in over a week... it would be more risky putting him in than Tokarski... im just glad %60+ of the people who voted Pickard are not coaching this team...

Leaving Tokarski in is the safe call for all of the reasons you mentioned. Even if Tokarski plays poorly, the decision to leave him in is defendable.

Going with Pickard and having him play poorly, the media would eat Quinn up.

Odd that Canada enters a game where they are considered to have the weaker goaltender. It's been a long time since that has occured.

I'm haven't been too confident in Tokarski the last 2 games..

What would you guys do?

Tokarski has not been really that solid. But the d is a bigger concern and it needs to step it up. If the d plays sloppy I am pretty sure Sweden will **** us in the score board. It might be just a little to late to put pickard in net now.

First of all...

Tokarski was brilliant against the Americans for the remainder of the game...

Second, I wouldn't put all the blame on Tokarski for the Russians... did you see how brutal Hickey and Tuebert were? Did you see all the dumb penalties and plays made by the defense?... no, because the goalie is the easiest scapegoat.

I wouldn't call him brilliant vs. the Americans. He made some good saves, and that one great save (in the last 2 periods), but again, I don't think he was really tested all that much.

And regardless of the bad defensive plays, there were several shots he should have saved. That 1st goal was a shot with no screen at all, that 4th goal, and that 5th goal in particular.

You don't put in a cold goaltender in a gold medal game.

You don't put in a cold goaltender in a gold medal game.

Should have gone with Pickard from the get-go. The German game should have been the final tune-up for whoever we were going to go with for the American game and the Semi's and Quinn blundered on that.

Tokarski..

Come on, Pickard hasn't played for days. He needs some practice and Tokarski had played well against both good teams, USA and Russia, and why not let him play in the finals? He deserves it more. The only bold reason I wouldn't put Pickard in because he hasn't practiced or played a game for a long time. Pickard is great but yeah. If Pickard had played tonight then it would of been a different story. But i'm going with Tokarski only because of that reason.

First of all...

Tokarski was brilliant against the Americans for the remainder of the game...

Second, I wouldn't put all the blame on Tokarski for the Russians... did you see how brutal Hickey and Tuebert were? Did you see all the dumb penalties and plays made by the defense?... no, because the goalie is the easiest scapegoat.

It's not about scapegoats, it's about options. What is Canada going to do about their D, sub in Pieterangelo and Ellis into the regular 6 man rotation? That's going to make them better defensively? Nope. I mean, for the 4th overall pick to only get PP time makes me wonder about Pieterangelo's defensive abilities.

You're really hoping for Pickard to come in and not let any soft goals in. Soft goals are deflating.

Canada scored 5 goals (against a goalie) the last 2 games. I'm not sure that they can get 5 against Markstrom and Sweden. So, they can't afford any weak ones against the Swedes.

Defensively, Canada isn't playing very smart. Not making the high percentage plays. Taking a lot of risks and defensive zone coverage has broken down a lot. Coaching staff needs to clean that up.

I wouldn't call him brilliant vs. the Americans. He made some good saves, and that one great save (in the last 2 periods), but again, I don't think he was really tested all that much.

And regardless of the bad defensive plays, there were several shots he should have saved. That 1st goal was a shot with no screen at all, that 4th goal, and that 5th goal in particular.

Look at the replay on the 5th goal especially... and tell me after if you think the Defense is great chasing the puck...

Any coach will tell you in pee wee, to never put your stick directly in front of the net if its a clear shot, and that is what threw Tokarski off the first time... and then the defense chased the puck... rather than got rid of the Russian... once again, its easy to blame the goalie.

It's not about scapegoats, it's about options. What is Canada going to do about their D, sub in Pieterangelo and Ellis into the regular 6 man rotation? That's going to make them better defensively? Nope. I mean, for the 4th overall pick to only get PP time makes me wonder about Pieterangelo's defensive abilities.

You're really hoping for Pickard to come in and not let any soft goals in. Soft goals are deflating.

Canada scored 5 goals (against a goalie) the last 2 games. I'm not sure that they can get 5 against Markstrom and Sweden. So, they can't afford any weak ones against the Swedes.

Defensively, Canada isn't playing very smart. Not making the high percentage plays. Taking a lot of risks and defensive zone coverage has broken down a lot. Coaching staff needs to clean that up.

How do you put Tokarski in though? he hasn't played in any big games yet... and hasn't played in a while... I just don't understand how you could put him in during a game this big...

Look at the replay on the 5th goal especially... and tell me after if you think the Defense is great chasing the puck...

Any coach will tell you in pee wee, to never put your stick directly in front of the net if its a clear shot, and that is what threw Tokarski off the first time... and then the defense chased the puck... rather than got rid of the Russian... once again, its easy to blame the goalie.

The 5th goal being the one that squeaked through? Tokarski should have been stronger on the post. That's basic goaltending.

How do you put Tokarski in though? he hasn't played in any big games yet... and hasn't played in a while... I just don't understand how you could put him in during a game this big...

At this point I think you have to...:naughty:

I think Dustin will have a bigger game against the Swedes

At this point it would just be stupid to put in Pickard

The 5th goal being the one that squeaked through? Tokarski should have been stronger on the post. That's basic goaltending.

Agreed, but look where the shot came from... and also look what the hell the defense is doing... im not saying Tokarski had a great game... but the defense was just as bad as the goaltending...

Pickard.

Tokarski looked weak against the US (except for when the American player shot it into his glove) and in this game where we won the shootout because the first guy hit the post, the second guy shot it right at him.

We seem to be finding a way to win despite Tokarski's weak play.

Agreed, but look where the shot came from... and also look what the hell the defense is doing... im not saying Tokarski had a great game... but the defense was just as bad as the goaltending...

Oh I know the defense was terrible, but I would expect our goaltender to be able to bail them out moreso than Tokarski has. He's made one unbelieveable save, and everything else has been routine. And he has let in several bad goals.

Even though I voted Pickard, I do agree that you have to stick with Tokarski, but not because he's the better goalie.

I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE ON HIM!!!! :cry:

I always thought he was overrated and the Spokane team in front of him made him look good. I remember having an argument with a poster on Hfboards, telling him the only reason Spokane won in the memorial cup was because of a) Spokane's defence and b) Unice is more brutal. And he's not exactly a big guy who can cover the net well so he gets beat high a lot.

Wasn't Tokarski the MVP of that tournament?

It pretty much has to be Tokarski, regardless of what Quinn wishes he could do. Pickard basically hasn't played since the pre-tournament games or the evaluation camp. If I'm remembering right, he has faced less than 30 shots in the entire tournament.

I voted for Tokarski even though I have no confidence in him.... but for the same reasons as the other posters you dont make a change now....

tokarski is very shaky in the start of the game.....giving up weak goals from shots off the point during rushes. it happened in the US game and it happened in the russia game.It will be a risk putting tokarski in.

Pickard.

I've attended nearly every home game Chet has played in the last two years. When he's been out, for whatever reason (injury, away at an invitational camp somewhere, Nashville camp, or just Christmas) he has always come back with a great performance. I'm not worried about his layoff.

I've also watched Tik in a lot of games. His performance in this tourney is WAY below his usual quality. Something's not right with him right now.

Canada will go with Tokarski. Our defense was at fault against Russia, not goaltending.

Are you kidding me? your blaming the horrible play of the defense on Tokarski?

Your a joke... Tokarski got us this far, and you give it to him... he has the experience in Championship games and has come through...

Did you forget how clutch he was against the US after those first 3 goals against him?.... did you forget the save on Colin Wilson?

Tokarski might have not had his best game against Russia, but he is not the first person to blame... Canada took too many stupid penalties and the defense was horrible.

Tokarski hasn't gotten Canada anywhere. Canada isn't going to need their goaltender to steal the gold medal game. What they're going to require is solid goaltending though. Solid as in no soft goals. Tokarski's let in 4 or 5 blatantly weak goals in his past two games. You can't do that against Sweden because they don't give you much of an opportunity to create offense and score goals in bunches like Canada has been doing. Pickard can be no worse. I'm not asking for lights out goaltending, I'm asking for solid goaltending. Tokarski hasn't given Canada that and he's been bailed out twice by our offense.

The USA tried to keep riding a goalie who was clearly not on his game and look where it got them. It's just too big of a risk in my opinion. We know Tokarski is better than this but McCollum was better than he played as well. Fact of the matter is he's not getting the job done now. Do any of you feel confident we could win a 2-1 or 3-2 game against Sweden with Tokarski in nets right now? I'm not sure I do. If you play him and he gives up bad goals early like the last two games then you ****ed up and we probably lose the game. Simple as that. Pickard can be no worse.

Exactly.

Pickard for sure. Nothing against Tokarski he's won the big thing with a Memorial Cup but he's been too shaky lately. I can forgive him for the USA game since he came back and stole the game back from them but he did nothing in the Russia game to warrant anything sign that gave me confidence. He stopped one shot in the shootout and the other rung off the post and had him beat. Look, Pickard played against two weaks teams but Tokarski let in 4 goals just a minute or two (or seconds) after each of the first 4 Canadian goals. The team wasn't perfect either, but he let in some weak goals. We DODGED a bullet! I'm thankful, but let's face it we dodged a bullet. Try Pickard

I said Pickard before the game today in the previous poll and I say Pickard again. Tokarski has nearly cost us two games. It won't happen though, Canada will stick with Tokarski, which is really frustrating. Hopefully he plays well and proves me wrong but I did not understand why they went with him as the starter in the first place.

But ask yourself... is Pickard even better than Tokarski?

But ask yourself... is Pickard even better than Tokarski?

I think he is. Which is why I voted him. Although the smart hockey decision would be to stick with Tokarski.

Tokarski is a Memorial Cup MVP for a reason.

I think he is. Which is why I voted him. Although the smart hockey decision would be to stick with Tokarski.

Why?

But ask yourself... is Pickard even better than Tokarski?

At this point I can't imagine him being worse. If Pickard is worse then we might have the worst goal tending tandem to ever challenge for a gold. I would hate to get silver because we couldn't make the tough but right decision.

Ask the American fans if they wish they had rolled the dice on their backup goalie.

Why?

Well first off, he was a 1st rounder for a reason. He's also a bigger goalie and seems to have better positioning in net and is more calm. But that's just me.

Wow no love for Tokarski?

How can you not give the guy a chance to win gold

Hes a proven winner
AAA Telus Cup Champion
WHL Champion
Memorial Cup Champion

All this kid does is win. Hes the right choice.

At this point I can't imagine him being worse. If Pickard is worse then we might have the worst goal tending tandem to ever challenge for a gold. I would hate to get silver because we couldn't make the tough but right decision.

Ask the American fans if they wish they had rolled the dice on their backup goalie.

We won a gold with Jeff Glass, lol.

I said Pickard before the game today in the previous poll and I say Pickard again. Tokarski has nearly cost us two games. It won't happen though, Canada will stick with Tokarski, which is really frustrating. Hopefully he plays well and proves me wrong but I did not understand why they went with him as the starter in the first place.

But didn't. So your point?

Well first off, he was a 1st rounder for a reason. He's also a bigger goalie and seems to have better positioning in net and is more calm. But that's just me.

Draft position means nothing... if thats your excuse then... :shakehead

If they were going to go to Pickard, it had to be for the game against the US.

Draft position means nothing... if thats your excuse then... :shakehead

Bernier was a first rounder last year. Mason wasnt.

Mason won.

But didn't. So your point?

Just my opinion (I think that's how these message boards work?) and I guess my point is, I think they made the wrong decision and I hope it doesn't cost us the gold.

Draft position means nothing... if thats your excuse then... :shakehead

I followed it up with more than just that. Albeit not a strong argument as I should. I just think, moreso, at this point Tokarski doesn't have the confidence. He doesn't look right in net, and I think Pickard wouldn't have to overcome those confidence issues as much as Tokarski. Add that with his size advantage and how I feel (at least) he has better positioning in net, I think he gives us the best chance to win.

Just my opinion (I think that's how these message boards work?) and I guess my point is, I think they made the wrong decision and I hope it doesn't cost us the gold.

How have they made the wrong decision?
When has Tokarski lost, did it miss something?

Why?

http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005232
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005233
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005234
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005235
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005236
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005237
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005238

You pick the better goalie. One team was the complete package and one team had a great goalie and not too much else.

How have they made the wrong decision?
When has Tokarski lost, did it miss something?

I guess we'll know Monday won't we? I feel like we have been winning in spite of him and certainly not because of him. Sweden is arguably stronger than Russia, so Tokarski is going to have to really elevate himself from the level he's been playing at the last 2 games.

http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005232
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005233
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005234
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005235
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005236
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005237
http://whl.ca/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1005238

You pick the better goalie. One team was the complete package and one team had a great goalie and not too much else.

First of all, i can tell those stats are from almost a year ago... and i didnt even open one link...:shakehead but if you want to base it off WHL stats... then u need to see Tokarski's stats this year.

Tokarski is a Memorial Cup MVP for a reason.

And Pickard was the CHL goalie of the year for a reason too.

I voted Pickard, but I thought he should have been the number one going into the tournament. However, I do expect Tokarski to start. He's just gotta start playing well.

I guess we'll know Monday won't we? I feel like we have been winning in spite of him and certainly not because of him. Sweden is arguably stronger than Russia, so Tokarski is going to have to really elevate himself from the level he's been playing at the last 2 games.

Fair enough. If you dont think he can heres a short list of his resume the last few years.

AAA Telus Cup Champ (MVP)
WHL Champ (Not sure)
Memorial Cup Champ (MVP)

Looks like he likes big games to me.

Fair enough. If you dont think he can heres a short list of his resume the last few years.

AAA Telus Cup Champ (MVP)
WHL Champ (Not sure)
Memorial Cup Champ (MVP)

Looks like he likes big games to me.

I hope he's the MVP of the WJC Gold Medal game too...for our sake.

I hope he's the MVP of the WJC Gold Medal game too...for our sake.

I think its going to come down to our offense...

thats what its been this whole tournament... if we can be in the Swedish zone for majority of the game, then we dont have to worry about goaltending and defense...

Im really counting on Tavares, Hodgson, and Eberle next game... i know they are not on the same lines except PP, but the pressure is on for them to perform against Sweden.

First of all, i can tell those stats are from almost a year ago... and i didnt even open one link...:shakehead but if you want to base it off WHL stats... then u need to see Tokarski's stats this year.

With 17 returning players I'd expect his stats to be better than last. In his absence, James Reid is putting up the same numbers as Tokarski. How many returning players does Tri-Cities have? 7 rookies in the lineup.

With 17 returning players I'd expect his stats to be better than last. In his absence, James Reid is putting up the same numbers as Tokarski. How many returning players does Tri-Cities have? 7 rookies in the lineup.

Im not going to argue about it anymore... whatever happens, happens... and as long as we win gold, i dont care who is net to be honest... i just think it will be a mistake to go with Pickard at this point.

Fair enough. If you dont think he can heres a short list of his resume the last few years.

AAA Telus Cup Champ (MVP)
WHL Champ (Not sure)
Memorial Cup Champ (MVP)

Looks like he likes big games to me.

You're obviously a huge fan of his which is cool but I don't really care about what he's done in the past. Pickard has a pretty good resume as well (CHL goalie of the year) and I just feel that for whatever reason Tokarski is struggling right now. I watched the Memorial Cup last year and he looks nothing like that goalie in this tournament. At this level the Canada coaches have to remove emotion from the equation and go with who will give them the best chance to win. They may feel that changing goalies at this point would cause too much of a distraction but I think it would be a big wake up call. Team Canada was 5 seconds from going home and the guy that would have had the goat horns on would have most likely been Tokarski.

Like I said, Tokarski will probably start on Monday and I really hope your guy comes through. I don't want to see a thread where we discuss this same question after the gold medal game.

You're obviously a huge fan of his which is cool but I don't really care about what he's done in the past. Pickard has a pretty good resume as well (CHL goalie of the year) and I just feel that for whatever reason Tokarski is struggling right now. I watched the Memorial Cup last year and he looks nothing like that goalie in this tournament. At this level the Canada coaches have to remove emotion from the equation and go with who will give them the best chance to win. They may feel that changing goalies at this point would cause too much of a distraction but I think it would be a big wake up call. Team Canada was 5 seconds from going home and the guy that would have had the goat horns on would have most likely been Tokarski.

Like I said, Tokarski will probably start on Monday and I really hope your guy comes through. I don't want to see a thread where we discuss this same question after the gold medal game.

Im actually not even a big fan. I just know he does nothing but win. ;)

Im actually not even a big fan. I just know he does nothing but win. ;)

Well, I'll be rooting for him!

Tokarski. Pickard hasn't played in a while, so he's not ready.

Shoulda been Pickard today, should be Pickard on Monday. Expect Tokarski.

Im surprised Tokarski was so nervous tonight. He wont he Memorial cup, hes been in this situation before, tonight he looked nervous and scared as hell. Gimme Pickard.

Goalies are a fragile bunch... you can have a terrible game one night and be lights out the next... I'm not sure putting in a cold goalie is the answer against a sharpshooting Swedish bunch... I watched Tokarski in the Mem Cup final and he was fantastic, you need to ride him at this point, I dont see the advantage of playing Pickard at this point (even though I have him in my WJHC pool)

in defence of Tokarski, heading into the tournament hes clearly the better goalie. Maybe its because hes on a stronger team, but his save percentage is like 93 percent.

Goalies are a fragile bunch... you can have a terrible game one night and be lights out the next... I'm not sure putting in a cold goalie is the answer against a sharpshooting Swedish bunch

Every hockey player can have a terrible game one night and be lights out the next. The difference is that it is a lot more obvious when it happens to goalies. Maybe I'm saying this just because I'm a goalie, but there is no reason to treat goalies as special fragile creatures who are different than everyone else. If Della Rovere had been more severely injured when he blocked that shot, and he had missed the last two games, would everyone be against him playing in the final because he "wasn't ready" and "hasn't played in a while?" I highly doubt it.

Chet Pickard isn't going to forget all the skills that made him a first round draft pick just because he hasn't played in front of paying customers for one week. He's been practicing against the best junior shooters in the world and will be completely fine if he is called upon, and I think he probably should be.

You have to wonder if the canadian defenders are starting to lose confidence in him and will try to compensate. It will really hurt the team if they are afraid to join the rush or make quick transition plays.

Every hockey player can have a terrible game one night and be lights out the next. The difference is that it is a lot more obvious when it happens to goalies. Maybe I'm saying this just because I'm a goalie, but there is no reason to treat goalies as special fragile creatures who are different than everyone else. If Della Rovere had been more severely injured when he blocked that shot, and he had missed the last two games, would everyone be against him playing in the final because he "wasn't ready" and "hasn't played in a while?" I highly doubt it.

Chet Pickard isn't going to forget all the skills that made him a first round draft pick just because he hasn't played in front of paying customers for one week. He's been practicing against the best junior shooters in the world and will be completely fine if he is called upon, and I think he probably should be.

This is TRUTH. As a goalie I agree with these sentiments. I don't think the people saying "you can't play Pickard now, he hasn't played in a week OMGZ!!!" understand the nature of the position. WHY? Why, can't he play? He has been practicing with the team, he is obviously going to be used to it. Not having played means nothing in this day and age, and I would really like a poster who is making this claim to defend themselves with more than just "he hasn't been tested, he hasn't played, you NEED to go with the one who got you there..."

Tokarski has been tested, and guess what, he failed. He needed to make a big save against the Russians and he couldn't. He needed to make a couple stops early and he didn't. Pickard has played, he has been practicing with the team - he hasn't sat around and done nothing. Tokarski didn't get Canada to the gold medal game, Canada got Tokarski there, now you need to go with someone who hasn't shown they lack the ability to make a routine stop at a key moment.

Pickard is a better goalie than Tokarski, and will likely make it to the NHL. Tokarski will be lucky to stick in the AHL. Pickard is bigger, better positionally, and has much better rebound control. Tokarski goes down early, plays small in the net (obvious from the terrible goals let in from shots coming down the wing), and losses site of the puck regularly.

Even with his shaky play, Tokarski came up big when it really mattered and besides putting in a backup in the finals doesnt bode good..

I wont vote since Im swede but if it was the other way around. Markström playing shaky in the 2 games pre-finals I would still play him in the final instead of Owuya

Tokarski... he must be due for a really big game, right? But anyway, apart from that, just from my limited experience of watching him and Pickard, I think he's a better goalie than Pickard.

Tokarski. Pickard hasn't played in a while, so he's not ready.

Really? He's not ready?

I think there's a long line of lazy positivist heuristics going on in this thread. The idea that you stick with the goalie who got you there until he loses would be okay if this was a best of 7 series, but it's not.

Canada was 5.4 seconds from playing for the bronze tomorrow but pulled it out, no thanks to Tokarski who was lucky enough to have his two shooters hit the post (when even if the puck would have hit him it probably would have been a goal because Tokarski most of his lower body in the net) and the next guy practically passed it to him.

So what if Canada had lost? Then would it be okay to bring Pickard in?

Even with his shaky play, Tokarski came up big when it really mattered and besides putting in a backup in the finals doesnt bode good..

I wont vote since Im swede but if it was the other way around. Markström playing shaky in the 2 games pre-finals I would still play him in the final instead of Owuya

Well I definitely don't consider Tokarski as coming up big in this game against Russia. He was fighting pucks the whole time and even in OT I can only remember one wrist shot from the point making it on net that he blockered into the corner. Against the US, he was solid in the last half, and had a spectacular glovesave (you know, that was pretty much shot into his glove).

I hope I'm wrong about Tokarski (especially if Quinn is planning on playing him) but I'm just not very confident in him.

9 goals against in 2 games (with plenty of them being "iffy") doesn't exactally inspire confidence.

I'd play Pickard, but I bet they'll go back to Tokarski.

http://www.bellevillebulls.com/images/MikeMurphy2_030.jpg

Couldn't resist :laugh:

It's very hard !!

I would not like to be Pat Quinn...

Tokarski was sub-par against both the US and the russians...

BUT

He saves us a GOAL against the US... And he was solid in the shoot out...

I think that he cannot be as bad againt sweden..

If he plays, he will know that he has all the confidence of Pat Quinn...

I think that while Tokarski was very poor the last two games, the Canadians (including him) found a way to win both games..

I expect big things from him in the final..

But, at the same time, I think (I may be wrong) that Pickard is a better goaltender than Tokarski!!!

I going with with Tokaski because i really think that HE COULD HAVE SAVED his BEST game for the final but I would not mind Chet Pickard...

I have read that Pickard is very similar to Price... With is a good sign...

Tokarski... he must be due for a really big game, right?

Exactly!!!!

this is a tough one because you dont know how pickard will preform against an elite nation like sweden. hes been playing against teams like germany and the kazaks and will be playing such a meaningful one if chosen but tokarski hasnt provided gold medal goaltending so im going to go with pickard but its very close beetween the two
What we do know is that Tokarski has not performed well at all against both the US and Russia. I'd take the gamble instead of the almost certainty of yet another bad performance!

Who honestly think Tokarski will improve against a way better team? He hasn't been good against two worse teams, and he is on pace to let in 6 goals, probably more against a dominant Swedish team.

Pickard can't be any worse than that, play him.
This.

As much as I'm not a fan of Tokarski (just because he's been in net DOES NOT mean he himself has gotten the team anywhere), I think you have to play him. Anything else is a huge f***ing slap in the face.
Better a ****ing slap in the face of Tokarski than a slap in the face of the entire nation!

You don't put in a cold goaltender in a gold medal game.
That's right, and that's why you start Chet and don't wait for
Tokarski to fair again and then get pulled!

I said Pickard before the game today in the previous poll and I say Pickard again. Tokarski has nearly cost us two games. It won't happen though, Canada will stick with Tokarski, which is really frustrating. Hopefully he plays well and proves me wrong but I did not understand why they went with him as the starter in the first place.
It's because of decisions like this that Quinn never won anything as a coach!

But ask yourself... is Pickard even better than Tokarski?
CHL goalie of the year, including Tokarski. :help:

Wow no love for Tokarski?

How can you not give the guy a chance to win gold

Hes a proven winner
AAA Telus Cup Champion
WHL Champion
Memorial Cup Champion

All this kid does is win. Hes the right choice.
I can appreciate that he might have been good at some point in his career, but right now, he couldn't catch a ****ing cold if his life depended on it! We need a change. The guys are playing their hearts out but they're so nervous to allow a single shot on goal because they know that the goalie's confidence is shot!

I tell you that we're miles away from Mason and Price, or even Pogge!

Really? He's not ready?

I think there's a long line of lazy positivist heuristics going on in this thread. The idea that you stick with the goalie who got you there until he loses would be okay if this was a best of 7 series, but it's not.

Canada was 5.4 seconds from playing for the bronze tomorrow but pulled it out, no thanks to Tokarski who was lucky enough to have his two shooters hit the post (when even if the puck would have hit him it probably would have been a goal because Tokarski most of his lower body in the net) and the next guy practically passed it to him.

So what if Canada had lost? Then would it be okay to bring Pickard in?



Well I definitely don't consider Tokarski as coming up big in this game against Russia. He was fighting pucks the whole time and even in OT I can only remember one wrist shot from the point making it on net that he blockered into the corner. Against the US, he was solid in the last half, and had a spectacular glovesave (you know, that was pretty much shot into his glove).

I hope I'm wrong about Tokarski (especially if Quinn is planning on playing him) but I'm just not very confident in him.

He did get saves in the shootout.. where it mattered.. ;)

Tokarski named the starter.

Tokarski is the better of the two goalies

Tokarski named the starter.

Mail Sweden the Gold, save the embarrassment! :help:

This reminds me of last year...Mason or Bernier controversy. In the end, it turned out to be good...but Tokarski has played much worse than Mason did.

Quinn seems to buy into the Pickard rust.

The veteran coach announced he would stay with Spokane Chiefs netminder Dustin Tokarski in goal for the final game.

"We're in a spot where we think he's had the harder tests at this point," explained Quinn to the Canadian Press. "[Chet Pickard] probably hasn't been in in a week, so it might be unfair to throw him in."

Tokarski is the better of the two goalies

I wonder why Pickard went in the first round and Tokarski went in the 5th in the '08 draft?

I think they made a mistake from the start by playing Tokarski in the first place. CP was the better choice. Nut now, they cant throw him in cold, and its unfair to put Tokarski on the bench.

should be interesting tomorrow

I can appreciate that he might have been good at some point in his career, but right now, he couldn't catch a ****ing cold if his life depended on it! We need a change. The guys are playing their hearts out but they're so nervous to allow a single shot on goal because they know that the goalie's confidence is shot!

I tell you that we're miles away from Mason and Price, or even Pogge!

We need a change. Really??? He is unbeaten. ;)

Mail Sweden the Gold, save the embarrassment! :help:

Dont watch.

I really wish we would have picked Mike Murphy.

I wonder why Pickard went in the first round and Tokarski went in the 5th in the '08 draft?

Whats that mean??? Mason went in the later rounds last year while Bernier went in the first.
Good reasoning.

Did you know Pickard was beat out of the playoffs with Tokarski in net in the other end. Prob not. Oh then went to win the WHL and Memorial cup while Pickard was golfing. Nice try though.

I expect alot of people to eat some crow tomorrow night.

Quinn seems to buy into the Pickard rust.

I think Quinn is an outstanding coach and commend what he has done with this team. However, he messed up the goaltending situation, big time.

He plays Tokarski in a tough match against the Czechs, then gives the next two, which were near certain to be big wins for Canada, to Pickard. Then his rationale for playing Tokarski against the US is that Pickard had not been tested enough!?! No mention of Tokarski being rusty after not having played in 5 days. Tokarski then shows equally important contrasts in the US game, looking very shaky early on, only to step up in the latter part of the game, of which was won by the players outside of the goal crease although he did play well enough, but he hardly was the cause for the win.

Now, Tokarski shows obvious weakness and all is made up for because he played solidly for the remainder of the game? That does not sit right with me. Then he is less than stellar against the Russians and once again shows several instances of shakiness, and he earns the next game!?! This is really starting to confuse me. Some defend him saying that its the defenses fault, what garbage. The defense may not have the shutdown class of players it is used to but it not as huge of a weakness as these defenders claim. You can forgive a goalies GAA due to weak defense, the SV% not so much and Tokarski's SV% is horrible.

And now they face possibly the best team in the tournament, or at least 2nd only to Canada for the gold and they stick with a goalie who has played sub-par, overall.

Now if Quinn had split the four qualifiers evenly(one easy, one tougher match-up each), Pickard would not be as "rusty" (which I don't believe he is) and their would be two equally viable options to put in net against Sweden. But he didn't use this logic and now is stuck with a different logic having to play Tokarski. Very poor coaching decision imo and one that could be very costly.

Whats that mean??? Mason went in the later rounds last year while Bernier went in the first.
Good reasoning.

Did you know Pickard was beat out of the playoffs with Tokarski in net in the other end. Prob not. Oh then went to win the WHL and Memorial cup while Pickard was golfing. Nice try though.

Tokarski is a great promising goaltender, but Pickard won the CHL Goaltender award for a reason, over Tokarski and despite losing to Tokarski's team in the playoffs. Spokane was simply a better team than Tri-City, both Tokarski and Pickard played exceptionally well in the playoffs, Tokarski and his team simply went further.

Tokarksi is just not a good goalie. I doubt he makes the NHL. He has bad fundamentals and a lot of the shots come off his enormous shoulder pads. And he is small. He has bad rebound control. Markstrom is a beast in net so that already gives him an advantage. He lets is soft goals, as you can see.

People fail to realize that Spokane itself is a very good defensive team, so they clear a lotof rebounds and it makes his job a lot easier. So just because he has good statistics in the WHL, it doesn't translate to the world juniors.

I hope he realizes how BRUTAL he has been. And I'm going to feel very sorry for the Canadian kids (especially the forwards) who are playing their hearts out for him if they fail to win the gold. He made one save in the shoot-out, big deal. The guy was coming in so slow too. And the first one, HE GOT LUCKY because it rang off the post!

HE DOES NOT LOOK COMFORTABLE AT ALL. I think he's trying to be as calm as possible but you can tell he's second-guessing his own abilities. He is not the second coming of Carey Price. I honestly think he's going to cave under even more pressure.

For the sake of Canada, I hope he pulls a miracle and is outstanding in the gold medal game because I can't stand the thought of seeing someone like Eberle, Tavares or Hodgson crying....

I can already predict Markstrom is going to be the tournament MVP.
I haven't really seen a lot of Pickard but there's no way he can be worse.

I doubt the defence has any confidence in him, but they have to pretend like they do when they are asked about him. It's kind of sad really.


Who knows though? Maybe Tavares or one of the forwards will play out their minds and win the game for Canada despite the goalie.

And don't compare the 2005 Jeff Glass thing (Glass is brutal too!) because 2005 defence was MUCH BETTER than this year's.

Tokarksi is just not a good goalie. I doubt he makes the NHL. He has bad fundamentals and a lot of the shots come off his enormous shoulder pads. And he is small. He has bad rebound control. Markstrom is a beast in net so that already gives him an advantage. He lets is soft goals, as you can see.

People fail to realize that Spokane itself is a very good defensive team, so they clear a lotof rebounds and it makes his job a lot easier. So just because he has good statistics in the WHL, it doesn't translate to the world juniors.

I hope he realizes how BRUTAL he has been. And I'm going to feel very sorry for the Canadian kids (especially the forwards) who are playing their hearts out for him if they fail to win the gold. He made one save in the shoot-out, big deal. The guy was coming in so slow too. And the first one, HE GOT LUCKY because it rang off the post!

HE DOES NOT LOOK COMFORTABLE AT ALL. I think he's trying to be as calm as possible but you can tell he's second-guessing his own abilities. He is not the second coming of Carey Price. I honestly think he's going to cave under even more pressure.

For the sake of Canada, I hope he pulls a miracle and is outstanding in the gold medal game because I can't stand the thought of seeing someone like Eberle, Tavares or Hodgson crying....

I can already predict Markstrom is going to be the tournament MVP.
I haven't really seen a lot of Pickard but there's no way he can be worse.

I doubt the defence has any confidence in him, but they have to pretend like they do when they are asked about him. It's kind of sad really.


Who knows though? Maybe Tavares or one of the forwards will play out their minds and win the game for Canada despite the goalie.

And don't compare the 2005 Jeff Glass thing (Glass is brutal too!) because 2005 defence was MUCH BETTER than this year's.

I am going to put down a couple hundred on Sweden.

I am going to put down a couple hundred on Sweden.

So how much do you win if Sweden wins then. :laugh:

Whats that mean??? Mason went in the later rounds last year while Bernier went in the first.
Good reasoning.

Did you know Pickard was beat out of the playoffs with Tokarski in net in the other end. Prob not. Oh then went to win the WHL and Memorial cup while Pickard was golfing. Nice try though.

LOL wtf is your problem?
Is was only a question..

So how much do you win if Sweden wins then. :laugh:

Around 500 hunney. Canada is favoured to win..

HOWEVER, if you go with tie (after regulation) it is like 9-2 odds..

I say Pickard but I'm really not sure about it

It'll be Tokarski. He needs to play a lot better against Sweden or we're done.

Sadly there is no way you can throw Pickard in at this point.

I dont agree with this at all. Tokarski is not having a good go right now. Remember back to the memorial cup, he never played this poorly. Really Picard is the "second" best goalie in Canada. I highly doubt Tokarski is head and shoulders above. I know these arent pros yet, but say Brodeur is playing like garbage at the Olympics. Would you be afrard to start Luongo???




I say throw Picard in.

He's definitely been shaky throughout the tournament but he's also come up with some huge saves. At this point I don't think you can change it up though. If it were up to me Tokarski gets the start.

Tokarski is the better of the two goalies

he is better of the 2 goalies, but last nights performance, I cant see how Pickard can play worst then that.

I wonder why Pickard went in the first round and Tokarski went in the 5th in the '08 draft?

Yes because a draft tells the whole story right?


No point in discussing this, Quinn is obviously smart enough to know not to let a goalie sit for a week then throw him in net and expect a gold medal come on. Tokarski hasn't played phenomenal we all know that but it's too late to go back.

he is better of the 2 goalies, but last nights performance, I cant see how Pickard can play worst then that.

How about the only oppostion you've faced in 2 weeks has been 3rd rate push overs and now your going into the biggest game of your life against the best opposition youve ever seen, with out any momentum or recent GP's?

A recipe for disaster for sure IMO.

Tokarski is NOT going to be perfect tommorow and neither will the team in front of him. Sweden will make their own mistakes too though. Its all going to come down to the least few minutes of the game...maybe OT or the S/O again? Tokarski has been through that drama 3 times here now.

Its an easy call IMO.

How about the only oppostion you've faced in 2 weeks has been 3rd rate push overs and now your going into the biggest game of your life against the best opposition youve ever seen, with out any momentum or recent GP's?

A recipe for disaster for sure IMO.

Tokarski is NOT going to be perfect tommorow and neither will the team in front of him. Sweden will make their own mistakes too though. Its all going to come down to the least few minutes of the game...maybe OT or the S/O again? Tokarski has been through that drama 3 times here now.

Its an easy call IMO.
No one is asking or expecting perfection, but the last two games, we got mediocrity and that doesn't cut it. I'd rather take a chance with a rusty goalie than going with one with his confidence shattered!

No one is asking or expecting perfection, but the last two games, we got mediocrity and that doesn't cut it. I'd rather take a chance with a rusty goalie than going with one with his confidence shattered!

This is what I think many of the posts in the thread seem to believe.

But I am a glass half full guy and I gotta' believe Tokarski is too!

He's just been handed the oppurtunity of a life time. The chances are pretty good that he (and many others) will NEVER play a bigger game than the game they play tommorow night.

As a TC goaltender...Tokarski knows all too well the scores of talented 'keepers that COULD have been named to this team ahead of him.

A long, tedious and sometimes heated selection process performed by the best hockey minds our country has...picked Tokarski as our #1 ranked available goalie.

His performace in the 2008 MC had a LOT do with it and I can't say I would be able to overlook it if I were impacting the actual decision making process in any way.

What I WOULD be able to overlook is...a few good shots from the wing that went by him in a couple of games.

BUT: The ONE GUY who actually HAS to overlook those GA's is...guess who? Dustin Tokarski.

He CLEARLY was NOT 'rattled' 'shaken' and a far, far cry from 'shattered' last night.

On the contrary he carried himself with a sweetly calm and cool body language and STUFFED the Russians in the show-down.

If you need to further investigate the temperature of the entire TEAM...playing in front of Tokarski...they continued to jump up and go to the attack through-out the OT and there was an impressive bravado and flair happening for TC late in that game.

No doubt, that had a LOT to do with allowing our goalie a chance to set his feet and dig in for the shoout-out.

We need to be better defensively...everyone keeps saying that and of course I HOPE we are better tommorow.

But if you swap a goalie out right now...your selling out a winner IMO.

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Both, especially Tokarski, have been very ineffective in this tournament and were the wrong choices outright for this team. If it weren't for the outstanding offense, Canada could very well have been in the relegation round with Finland with these two between the pipes.

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Both, especially Tokarski, have been very ineffective in this tournament and were the wrong choices outright for this team. If it weren't for the outstanding offense, Canada could very well have been in the relegation round with Finland with these two between the pipes.

Who did you want to see make the team? (I gotta ask)

Your son?

LOL>

Who did you want to see make the team? (I gotta ask)

Your son?

LOL>

Carrozzi, although he faltered in the Canada/Russia series,so I can understand why they passed him by, but he would have been better than these two.

Carrozzi, although he faltered in the Canada/Russia series,so I can understand why they passed him by, but he would have been better than these two.

Its been a high scoring tournament all round. I know we've almost always got a few gus who can thrown into the fray on this kind of debate...

But...its been a high scoring tournament all round ( said that already...but nobody seems to notice these things except for me:amazed:)

You stick with Tokarski.

I am worried, but you went with him, you let him be your #1, now it's time for him to step it up and play good, have some faith Canada.

Pickard

Tokarski is god awful and can't handle this level of pressure AT ALL

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Both, especially Tokarski, have been very ineffective in this tournament and were the wrong choices outright for this team. If it weren't for the outstanding offense, Canada could very well have been in the relegation round with Finland with these two between the pipes.

I think its a WHL bias for those running the team. Mike Murphy in the OHL is awesome, yet he didn't even make the camp - wtf?

Hockey Canada is a boys club, I guess the other good goalies in the CHL didn't have the agents or connections Tokarski had

Its been a high scoring tournament all round. I know we've almost always got a few gus who can thrown into the fray on this kind of debate...

But...its been a high scoring tournament all round ( said that already...but nobody seems to notice these things except for me:amazed:)

Yeah, but most of the high scoring games have been games with an extremely high number of shots. With Canada's games that's not the case, they've simply had bad goal tending.

Sexsmith.

Yeah, but most of the high scoring games have been games with an extremely high number of shots. With Canada's games that's not the case, they've simply had bad goal tending.

McCollum wasn't peppered. Neither was Markstrom versus Slovakia andhe was beaten from long range a couple times.

There has been an element of 'plucky-ness' from the shooters in this tourney, v man.

Chet is our only bet.

Chet is our only bet.

But Dustin wont let the rust in.:naughty:

I think its a WHL bias for those running the team. Mike Murphy in the OHL is awesome, yet he didn't even make the camp - wtf?

Hockey Canada is a boys club, I guess the other good goalies in the CHL didn't have the agents or connections Tokarski had

What connections? are you high?
I guess those connections got Tokarski drafted in the WHL right?

What connections? are you high?
I guess those connections got Tokarski drafted in the WHL right?

Tokarski plays in the WHL because he's a westerner. Had he been born/living in Markham, Ontario (example) he'd be playing in the OHL.

Pickard

Tokarski is god awful and can't handle this level of pressure AT ALL

:laugh:

If you have watched him at all rather than the World Juniors the kid handles pressure switches pretty well. He's won a Memorial Cup (MVP), and a National Midget champion. And if you haven't noticed he comes up big late in games. I guess he's handling it pretty well... :dunno:

Tokarski plays in the WHL because he's a westerner. Had he been born/living in Markham, Ontario (example) he'd be playing in the OHL.

What does that have ANYTHING to do with what I said. You do realize he wasn't drafted into the WHL right? He was only listed to the chiefs in December 2005.

And you're point, isn't always true. Hint: Chris DiDomenico

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Both, especially Tokarski, have been very ineffective in this tournament and were the wrong choices outright for this team.

How the heck has Pickard been ineffective in this tournament? He never was tested in any of his games. Or does allowing one power play goal in two games just scream ineffectiveness?

The weird thing with Tokarski in my opinion, is in ever game he's played in this tournament (the Czech game included) he has given up weak goals. He would have had a shutout in the Czech game had he not had a brain fart and mishandled the puck.

However, after hearing Quinn's remarks, Tokarski is basically getting the start because he doesn't want to put Pickard in this tough position, when I believe starting Tokarski doesn't really change anything. We have no idea what type of goaltending we are going to get with Tokarski. Thus, it's why I'd take the chance and play Pickard.

THE GOALIE RUST ARGUMENT IS A COP OUT FROM POSTERS ON THIS BOARD AND THE QUIN HIMSELF.

People who have actually played the position (some of us at a level near to what these kids play...) have stated that it would be a non-factor. Posters are just regurgitating what they have heard from the media, and the media is just trying to get a story/answers. If you asked Chet if he would be willing to play, what do you think the answer would be? Seriously....

The rust is a non-factor. Pickard has been practicing against the best offensive player in the tournament on a regular basis. Look at goalies at every level who have come in and played lights out. look at backup goalies in the NHL who have stolen the starting position and goaltenders who have came in for an injured goaltender. To say Pickard shouldn't play because of rust is an excuse used by Quin, regurgitated by the media, and robotically reported by posters on this board.

Pat Quinn has used the argument for Tokarski because it provides a better excuse if he loses. Simply put, if he plays the 'cold' goalie and loses, it is a questionable decesion. If he plays 'the one who got him there (wtf is this **** anyways - Tokarski DID NOT get Canada anywhere) and loses, he looks like someone who went with the safe bet and was hung out to dry. Which position reflects better on his job perspectives in the future? It will be harder for him to get back into the NHL if he doesn't win the tournament and will need a justifiable reason.

If a poster wants to provide a better logic for Tokarski to start, I would love to hear it. Hell, I have made the argument that Pickard is a better goaltender based on his positional play, his size, and his lateral movement. Tokarski is flashier, but one amazing save DOES NOT remove three terrible goals (as some poster's here seem to believe).

Tokarski will be the whipping boy if Canada loses by 1 goal. I think Pikard should have gotten the nod to start. Regardless, GO CANADA GO!!!!

Tokarski might be the worst starting goalie for Team Canada in years. Canada usually has one of the 2 best goalies in this tournament. This year is a big exception.

Pickard might be cold, but plain and simple, Tokarski has not played well. A GAA of 3.16 is very mediocre.

Pickard, Tokarski has been nothing short of pathetic, he was just awful in the game against the Russians.

I don't know what's up with him the way he shut down the high scoring Kitchener Rangers was amazing.

Quinn has confirmed that Tokarsky is getting the start in the final.

Absolute fail.

Tokarski is just not playing well... however I respect the fact that it's too late to change. I have little confidence in him right now, though.

This reminds me of last year.. while few would probably admit it now, most people thought Mason was the wrong choice and would cost us the gold medal game. I hope when I look back I'll be able to say I was wrong about Tokarski...

Tokarski is just not playing well... however I respect the fact that it's too late to change. I have little confidence in him right now, though.

This reminds me of last year.. while few would probably admit it now, most people thought Mason was the wrong choice and would cost us the gold medal game. I hope when I look back I'll be able to say I was wrong about Tokarski...

I was one of those people, but even Mason wasn't playing this poorly.

Unfortunately you have to go with Tokarski at this point. It's too late to flip back to Pickard who hasn't played a meaningful game in god knows how long.

I really have no idea why Tokarski was basically handed the starting job at the outset and Pickard was never even given the chance to win it for himself.

I think its a WHL bias for those running the team. Mike Murphy in the OHL is awesome, yet he didn't even make the camp - wtf?

Hockey Canada is a boys club, I guess the other good goalies in the CHL didn't have the agents or connections Tokarski had

Uh, Tokarski won the Memorial Cup, and Pickard won the CHL goalie of the year award and was the first goalie selected in the NHL entry draft last year.

The only bias is in your head.

its never too late to make a goaltending change, so stop saying its "too late"

:laugh:

If you have watched him at all rather than the World Juniors the kid handles pressure switches pretty well. He's won a Memorial Cup (MVP), and a National Midget champion. And if you haven't noticed he comes up big late in games. I guess he's handling it pretty well... :dunno:
But this IS the WJC!!! :sarcasm:

Quinn has confirmed that Tokarsky is getting the start in the final.

Absolute fail.
And it's because of decisions like this that Quinn has never won anything as a coach in the NHL.

But this IS the WJC!!! :sarcasm:


And it's because of decisions like this that Quinn has never won anything as a coach in the NHL.

I meant "other than the WJ's".

Yes, but look what Quinn has done in international hockey. Even the haters have to admit he's done a great job with these kids, and why would you go back to Pickard who hasn't played in a week? That'd be just stupid IMO.

Tokarski is a great promising goaltender, but Pickard won the CHL Goaltender award for a reason, over Tokarski and despite losing to Tokarski's team in the playoffs. Spokane was simply a better team than Tri-City, both Tokarski and Pickard played exceptionally well in the playoffs, Tokarski and his team simply went further.

So I guess you could agree that Tokarski wins big games and Pickard doesnt.:nod:

Unfortunately you have to go with Tokarski at this point. It's too late to flip back to Pickard who hasn't played a meaningful game in god knows how long.

I really have no idea why Tokarski was basically handed the starting job at the outset and Pickard was never even given the chance to win it for himself.

Umm you ever think that Tokarski beat out Pickard at camp. Followed it up by not losing a game so far.

Heres Bobs take on it.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=261997

Another amazing thread by the armchair GMs of HFboards

Tokarski is a winner. Telus Cup Champion. Memorial Cup Champion. He has yet to lose a game in these World Juniors. He has played the last 2 important games for Canada.

Yet somehow people here have voted for going with the guy who hasn't played in almost week in the biggest game of the year?

Win or Lose Tokarski is the right choice for goal. He is the guy right now for that team and they all know it. Do you know how much confidence they would have in Pickard right now? ZERO. How much confidence would the players have in Quinn for second guessing himself if he suddenly made the switch?

You don't do stupid crap like this on the eve of the biggest game of their young lives.

Definitely Tokarski. People all think he sucks now because of one bad game (USA) and then a poor defensive game team wise (Russia). OMGZ he sucks!!!! I hope Tokarski shuts those fans right the **** up tonight.

Im glad 64% of you aren't Pat Quinn...

Great game by Tokarski... Player of the game...

See why I chose Tokarski?

Im glad 64% of you aren't Pat Quinn...

Great game by Tokarski... Player of the game...

Seriously. Most of these posts are hilarious.

Come on people, Pat made the right decision to go with Tokarski for tonight.

Lots of crow being served as we speak. Too bad many arent man enough to say they were wrong.

Whats next for the kid??

Telus Cup Champ
WHL Champ
Memorial Cup Champ
Canada WJC Gold

Cmon folks, the polls still open - still time to get those Tokarski votes in :sarcasm:

I votes Toks last night and was surprised by the results

I voted for Pickard but I'm thrilled Tokarski came through. Easily his best game of the tournament.

Yah this thread is pretty ridiculous. You don't change goalies in the gold medal game.

bump :handclap:

We did it woooooo gold medal