Canada's achilles heel...

Their defence.

I know it was talked about before the tournament, but I think this is one of the poorest group of Canadian defencemen we have seen in awhile. More rovers than dmen.

I am officially very worried about Sweden.

I think that Canada will fare better with Pickard in net.

Their defence.

I know it was talked about before the tournament, but I think this is one of the poorest group of Canadian defencemen we have seen in awhile. More rovers than dmen.

I am officially very worried about Sweden.

It's not their defense, it's their goaltending! Well we don't know about Chet, but "what's his face" sure isn't going to get the job done! Two games in a row where he's fighting the puck and allows back breakers right, left and center! I'm not blaming the kid, it happens, but for christ's sake, don't put him back in there!

Hickey looked indecisive and uncomfortable, Subban was too flashy at the beginning and Teubert didn't play the shutdown role that Quinn wanted him to. Honestly the only defensemen that somewhat impressed me that game was Tyler Myers.

Sweden aslo have there flaws.

It's not their defense, it's their goaltending! Well we don't know about Chet, but "what's his face" sure isn't going to get the job done! Two games in a row where he's fighting the puck and allows back breakers right, left and center! I'm not blaming the kid, it happens, but for christ's sake, don't put him back in there!

Your right, I have no confidence in the goaltending, but the bad decisions by the defence have me scared half the night.

Subban is a highlight reel, for both teams.

i have zero trust in our defense and goaltending...

but 100% trust in our passion.

Sweden aslo have there flaws.

No doubt, but I have spent much more time watching Canada play, havnt seen Sweden yet.

Your right, I have no confidence in the goaltending, but the bad decisions by the defence have me scared half the night.

Subban is a highlight reel, for both teams.

The problem is that the team works its ass off and if they allow a shot, as innocent as it might be, they know that it can go in. They then have to try to do too much in order to avoid shots against!

Why in the blue hell can't Quinn see that, that's beyond me.

I am extremely disappointed in the amount of goals we are giving up. Our defence needs to improve if we want to beat Sweden and I hope we start Pickard. I was too nervous to watch the game but from what I have read Tavares played poorly. We will need him to step up and hopefully our lethal PP returns.

Tokarski has good lateral movement, but he can't seem to stop shots on the rush off the side boards. He's let in 4 of those now in the last two games.

Makes you realize how much we miss defenseman the likes of Schenn, Doughty, Staal, Parent, etc.

Tokarski just lets pucks hit him and has no control over rebounds. He never freezes pucks and lets a harmless rush turn into multiple scoring chances. Our Defensemen are scrambling to chase down his rebounds and not doing a great job of it. If we don't fix it, Sweden will expose it.

Subban is doing what he is supposed to do, but the stay-at-home guys aren't staying at home.

Tokarski just lets pucks go in...

PK Subban is the Dman of the tourny for canada so far.
He is rock solid

Tokarski just lets pucks hit him and has no control over rebounds. He never freezes pucks and lets a harmless rush turn into multiple scoring chances. Our Defensemen are scrambling to chase down his rebounds and not doing a great job of it. If we don't fix it, Sweden will expose it.


We have been spoiled by some great goaltening over the years, this is a down one, I guess we know how other teams feel now.

I know alot of people had the USofA and Sweden rated ahead of Canada as a team, I can see why. I just hope the passion can overcome the weakness.

PK Subban is the Dman of the tourny for canada so far.
He is rock solid


Did you watch tonights game?

Goaltending is not the problem TURNOVERS ARE!!

I counted at least 15 stupid turnovers for Canada.

I think Hickey is playing very well. He's being asked to play a shutdown role against the top line talents from every country and is doing great.

For my money I would say a huge part of the problem is goaltending. Please put in Pickard.

Tyler Meyers (sp?) was absolutely amazing this game. I've been pretty harsh on him in the past, but he has a wicked stick.

i have zero trust in our defense and goaltending...

but 100% trust in our passion.

I second this.

That was easily the worst defensive performance I've ever seen by a Canadian team. I lost count of the soft turnovers in the neutral zone. They have to do much better than that to beat Sweden.

PK Subban is the Dman of the tourny for canada so far.
He is rock solid

Offensively, yes.

But if you replay many of the key goals against Canada in this tournament, you'll see Subban was on at the ice at the time and was doing a lot of standing around.

When Klopov overpowered the Canadians to slip it by Tokarski for the 5th Russian goal, guess who was right there?

I think Hickey is playing very well. He's being asked to play a shutdown role against the top line talents from every country and is doing great.

For my money I would say a huge part of the problem is goaltending. Please put in Pickard.

I don't think Hickey's playing all that well, and especially not up to the level he was at last year.

He's been making a lot of turnovers, particularly in the USA game.

I don't think its so much that the defense is bad, but just playing stupid. Instead of making the smart safe plays they're making stupid risky plays and Canada is getting burnt on too many of them. The defense can be much better if they'd just smarten up.

I honestly think Hickey has been brutal. He does look VERY uncomfortable. I give him an A for effort but gah, he turns it over like crazy and gambles with the puck.

I think the fact that he's supposed to be a "leader" on this team and is the team captain is really weighing on his shoulders.

The defense generally plays well but they make massive mistakes when they make mistakes. If you guys expect Chet Pickard to rob the opposition on all those giveaways, you're likely expecting too much.

The Canadian D-Men need to take it to the body of the opposing teams fowards. Forget looking at the puck, take the damn body!!!

Hickey looked even worse than usual today. I also thought Subban had a particularly bad game. He needs to be shot the next time he does a spin-o-rama. How many turnovers did he make off of that move tonight? I have little faith in Tokarski after the last two games and the weak goals he's given up but our defense can definetely play better than they did tonight.

One game knockout is the big thing. Any skilled team can steal one game off of a better club. This isn' football. There is a reason why most sports have a multi game playoff. It's a tournament format, not a true world championship.
If Canada has a weakness it is the D not playing defence. They attack nicely but I am not sure they wouldn't have been better off bringing in one or two guys that were straight shut down types. You play the cards you have though. Still undefeated and considering they didn't play their absolute best the last two games they are maybe due for a standout game against Sweden. They should be able to put their opponent away before the third period.

Agreed with the above posters - way too many stupid, Canadian turnovers. Guys like Moller, MSP, Tedenby, and Backstrom are going to rip them apart if they play like that against the Swedes.

Kind of off-topic, but this has been bugging me for a while - Why wasn't Cowen invited to the selection camp?

I honestly think Hickey has been brutal. He does look VERY uncomfortable. I give him an A for effort but gah, he turns it over like crazy and gambles with the puck.

I think the fact that he's supposed to be a "leader" on this team and is the team captain is really weighing on his shoulders.

This is the unfortunate thing as I do think Hickey has been brutal...miscast as the Captain too, IMO. He's made some real bonehead plays and unlike Subban--who makes some boneheaded moves but then some incredible ones--Hickey just plays a quiet game after making those idiotic mistakes. And he's been handling the puck like a live grenade.

That said, as Teubert is supposed to be the defensive conscience of that pairing, he hasn't been a whole lot better. But Hickey, as the Captain, should be a whole lot better than he has been.

~Canucklehead~

This team has basically done what I expected. I thought this would be a dynamic team. And they have been. I didn't expect 15-0 wins, but even if you subtract the 15 goals against the Kazakhs, they have 33 goals (including the one for the shootout) in five games. We're usually at 20-25 goals for the tournament. Three scoring lines. Four pretty good offensive defencemen. Didn't expect this. But I knew we'd have more offence than in past years.

And I knew we'd need to rely on our offence more than in past years. We gave up five goals tonight. I think our last five goals against game was the 2002 gold medal game against Russia. Five goals? In recent years, that's how many we surrender in the round robin.

We've been spoiled in past years. Look at our goaltending, defence and team defence. We had Pogge, Price and Mason/Bernier the last three years. We were really spoiled last year with Irving as the "other" goalie at camp. If he was an 89, he would be our No. 1 this year. Our shut-down defencemen have included Staal, Parent, Alzner and Doughty. We've been spoiled. Our goaltending and team defence haven't been good this year, but it's really notable when you compare it to past years.

I knew goaltending would be an issue. Our crop of 89 goalies isn't good. And I don't know if the crop of 1990-born goalies are much better.

In terms of defence, I didn't expect to have Doughty back, but I thought we'd have Luke Schenn back. We really miss him. Hickey-Teubert has yet to find the same chemistry as Hickey-Schenn. They have less than 48 hours to find that chemistry. And our team defence took a hit, too, when Sutter, Gillies and Bailey cracked the show. That would have been a lights out checking line. Cormier's line has been good, but they don't have the same presence that those three would have had.

Hard to believe, but I think we miss Sutter, Gillies and Bailey more than Stamkos, Turris and Gagner.

Their defence.

I know it was talked about before the tournament, but I think this is one of the poorest group of Canadian defencemen we have seen in awhile. More rovers than dmen.

I am officially very worried about Sweden.

I think it's goaltending. Tokarski has been average at best in this tournament.

I expected a lot more out of Tokarski. At last years Memorial Cup he was a clutch performer. Here he has let in quite a few goals that he should be expected to stop and is fighting the puck.

Hickey looked even worse than usual today. I also thought Subban had a particularly bad game. He needs to be shot the next time he does a spin-o-rama. How many turnovers did he make off of that move tonight? I have little faith in Tokarski after the last two games and the weak goals he's given up but our defense can definetely play better than they did tonight.2. Overblown...he also got Canada chances near the end of the game.

They are playing in ront of over 20,000 fans and 3 million + more on the couch

No JR team in the history of this tournament has been under MORE pressure.

Canada's Jr team has an achilles heal...its called: Nerves.:amazed:

Offensively, yes.

But if you replay many of the key goals against Canada in this tournament, you'll see Subban was on at the ice at the time and was doing a lot of standing around.

When Klopov overpowered the Canadians to slip it by Tokarski for the 5th Russian goal, guess who was right there?Really? Cause he has been on for only 3 or 4 goals this tournament. Oh and yes..he was on the ice for that guys goal...guess what? So were 3 others...and that should have been stopped anyway.

And if you replay many of Canada's key goals you will realize he's on for almost every single one. Including the one today that tied it. Why? Cause hes a good puckmover...yea he made some mistakes...but he also got the offense moving at the end and it got us the game.

Really? Cause he has been on for only 3 or 4 goals this tournament. Oh and yes..he was on the ice for that guys goal...guess what? So were 3 others...and that should have been stopped anyway.

And if you replay many of Canada's key goals you will realize he's on for almost every single one. Including the one today that tied it. Why? Cause hes a good puckmover...yea he made some mistakes...but he also got the offense moving at the end and it got us the game.

Hey I'm not harping on Subban's offensive game. He's been tremendous in that regard.

But we shouldn't be painting him up as a two-way beast here.

Really? Cause he has been on for only 3 or 4 goals this tournament. Oh and yes..he was on the ice for that guys goal...guess what? So were 3 others...and that should have been stopped anyway.

And if you replay many of Canada's key goals you will realize he's on for almost every single one. Including the one today that tied it. Why? Cause hes a good puckmover...yea he made some mistakes...but he also got the offense moving at the end and it got us the game.


as I said, he is a highlight reel, on both ends of the ice.

Hey I'm not harping on Subban's offensive game. He's been tremendous in that regard.

But we shouldn't be painting him up as a two-way beast here.I never painted him that way. Ive seen him play for 3 years now and he is far from one. But he also isn't a "brutal player" which is what I was reading in the GDT.

as I said, he is a highlight reel, on both ends of the ice.Ya..right...a couple giveaways? If that makes you a highlight reel for the other team..then so is the other 7 defenseman on Canada.

I never painted him that way. Ive seen him play for 3 years now and he is far from one. But he also isn't a "brutal player" which is what I was reading in the GDT.

Ya..right...a couple giveaways? If that makes you a highlight reel for the other team..then so is the other 7 defenseman on Canada.

Every time he touched the puck I had to sit up, both directions. I think you might just be a tad biased. His defensive game is lacking.

They are playing in ront of over 20,000 fans and 3 million + more on the couch

No JR team in the history of this tournament has been under MORE pressure.

Canada's Jr team has an achilles heal...its called: Nerves.:amazed:

The 2006 team in Vancouver was under the same pressure plus they had to face Malkin in the finals. Marc Staal and Ryan Parent stepped up to shut him down and that team wasn't all that star studded.

They lack a stud defenceman because they're both in the NHL right now.

I never painted him that way. Ive seen him play for 3 years now and he is far from one. But he also isn't a "brutal player" which is what I was reading in the GDT.

Ya..right...a couple giveaways? If that makes you a highlight reel for the other team..then so is the other 7 defenseman on Canada.

Bingo. Which is why many of us in this thread are talking about defense being the achillies' heel for Team Canada.

I never painted him that way. Ive seen him play for 3 years now and he is far from one. But he also isn't a "brutal player" which is what I was reading in the GDT.

Ya..right...a couple giveaways? If that makes you a highlight reel for the other team..then so is the other 7 defenseman on Canada.

I addmit this tournament is the 1st time I have seen him play live, but my 1st impression is he has poor hockey sense, great skills. He will need to clean up alot if he wants to make the NHL as a dman.

Every time he touched the puck I had to sit up, both directions. I think you might just be a tad biased. His defensive game is lacking.Considering he's been arguably Canada's best defenseman (period..) in this tournament..he shouldn't be the guy focused on. That is my point. I never said he was great defensively..again ive seen him play longer than most have. I know he needs work..but seriously..one below-average defensive game and hes being called "brutal" and a "defensively horrible player." Please..overdramatic..

If we really should be talking about a defenseman needing to step up...hmmm how bout Hickey and Teubert? AKA..our supposed to be defensive shutdown pairing.

One game knockout is the big thing. Any skilled team can steal one game off of a better club. This isn' football. There is a reason why most sports have a multi game playoff. It's a tournament format, not a true world championship.
If Canada has a weakness it is the D not playing defence. They attack nicely but I am not sure they wouldn't have been better off bringing in one or two guys that were straight shut down types. You play the cards you have though. Still undefeated and considering they didn't play their absolute best the last two games they are maybe due for a standout game against Sweden. They should be able to put their opponent away before the third period.

Luke Schenn and Drew Doughty, we miss you

Hickey + Tokarski = heart attack.

Considering he's been arguably Canada's best defenseman (period..) in this tournament..he shouldn't be the guy focused on. That is my point. I never said he was great defensively..again ive seen him play longer than most have. I know he needs work..but seriously..one below-average defensive game and hes being called "brutal" and a "defensively horrible player." Please..overdramatic..

If we really should be talking about a defenseman needing to step up...hmmm how bout Hickey and Teubert? AKA..our supposed to be defensive shutdown pairing.

I would give best defenseman to Myers personally, but you can certianly make the case for Subban.

The Canadian defense has been terrible, Hickey and Teubert = ugh.

I would give best defenseman to Myers personally, but you can certianly make the case for Subban.
In the semis, Myers was definitely Canada's best defensemen. He came back from taking that shot to the knee and was very solid in his own end.

Canada actually didn't invite the hottest goalie in the the CHL to camp.

Nicola Riopel of the Moncton Wildcats, QMJHL.

Incredible stats in what essentially an offensive driven league:
2008-09 32(Games) 59(G) 3(SO) 1.82 (GAA) 27(W) 5(L) 0.938(Pct)

The team is ranked 7th in the CHL.

Deserved at least a look.

I honestly think Hickey has been brutal. He does look VERY uncomfortable. I give him an A for effort but gah, he turns it over like crazy and gambles with the puck.

I think the fact that he's supposed to be a "leader" on this team and is the team captain is really weighing on his shoulders.
Half of me agrees because last year he came in with low expectations and stunned everyone how well he played, but on the other hand he is Captain of his own team and even played in the playoffs seriously hurt. Maybe the "win or don't come home" that most Canadians have has just gotten to him. Still a great defence prospect and hopefully he can turn it around for Sweden.

Canada actually didn't invite the hottest goalie in the the CHL to camp.

Nicola Riopel of the Moncton Wildcats, QMJHL.

Incredible stats in what essentially an offensive driven league:
2008-09 32(Games) 59(G) 3(SO) 1.82 (GAA) 27(W) 5(L) 0.938(Pct)

The team is ranked 7th in the CHL.

Deserved at least a look.Hottest goalie is Murphy actually...he's been this hot for the whole year.

Hottest goalie is Murphy actually...he's been this hot for the whole year.

You cant really quantify who is hotter...nonetheless, neither were given a chance.

Riopel, while not being my favourite goalie, its hard to argue what hes done this year. But hes not NHL drafted, so Hockey Canada ignores him. No shock there.

Well Subban made some bad mistakes tonight, ones he was specifically told not to do. But the bright side is none of them turned into goals. He had the one bad behind the back pass but he caught up to the Russian easily and broke up the play. The 2 goals he was on for were not his fault: Pietrangelo slipped, making it a semi breakaway and the second one Tokarski should have stopped. Still, he needs to keep things simple and keep the fancy play to a minimum in these close games.

I think Hickey was really bad tonight. He really looked lost.

However they both REALLY picked it up in the OT and played extremely well. I think the entire team got a wake up call and a revelation when they were almost kicked out of the gold medal game.

The entire team played pretty bad, terrible responses after scoring goals, they didn't keep momentum.

Offensively, yes.

But if you replay many of the key goals against Canada in this tournament, you'll see Subban was on at the ice at the time and was doing a lot of standing around.

When Klopov overpowered the Canadians to slip it by Tokarski for the 5th Russian goal, guess who was right there?

i dont think he was on the ice for an even strength goal till this game. and neither were his fault tonight.

There doesn't seem to a stabilizing force on the back end that Canada has had in the past like Schenn, Staal, Doughty etc... Hickey has disappointed me, Subban has been great offensively but doesn't do the same thing in his own zone. Teubert has good positioning and is a great hitter but he has very weak puck skills. It seems that there no one who can really step up and dominate in the defensive zone and make consistent smart plays. I thought Myers played really well against Russia, that poke check on Filatov in OT was great.

If Doughty and Schenn had been sent back, Canada takes this tournament in a cakewalk.

I'm really questioning soem people honesty in all this. Then, you'll be able to question mine as well since he's a prospect of you know who.....But while Subban, and I admit, played definately his worst game to date in this tournament, are people actually really believe he's that bad defensively? Are people really blaming him on the Goncharov's goal where it's Pietrangelo who fell and Subban almost caught him while being at the other end of the blue line? Are people really blaming on the 5th goal where it was Goloubef who was closer, definately Goloubef's guy and Subban wasn't really able to do Goloubef's job 'cause he was in the way and all this despite the fact that most of the goals should have been stoppable by Tokarski?

Subban made a stupid play on the PP where his passing spinorama ended up almonst as a breakaway....still he corrected his mistake himself....anybody noticing it? Then a couple of other giveways during the game as well that could have been avoided....But did he lost that many 1 on 1 battles? I don't even remember 1 or 2....was physical, and won most of his battles, had some great first passes and some great rushes as well....

Just to note how people are biased towards him.....I read some comments about how risky he was in the OT when his "stupid" rushes.....does anyone know that there shouldn't be any risks involve since a forward should have recognized the rushes and take his place so there wouldn't be 2 on 1's? Not to mention that he's fast enough to comeback from those rushes, both rushes that ended up as great scoring chances. Is he perfect? No. Far from it. But the good things win over the bad things.....he's kinda leading the +/- category.....I would bet that a d-man that is so terrible, shouldn't lead that category even if you believe or not....

Besides, for whoever misses those great d-men that we had in previous tournaments and I kinda agree a little with that....strange that most MVP's were still the goalies and they had to be each and every one of them pretty sensationnal to see Canada win the gold.....Is that possible that some giveways, some turnovers that were made were saved A LOT by the Pogge's, the Price's and the Mason,s of this world at one point? As terrible this defensive squad is....chances are they could probably win the gold with one of the worst goalie that have worn this uniform in the past years....

All the D have been pretty brutal turning the puck over, but McGuire seems to love to point out Subban when he does. It's because McGuire read it somewhere and needs to point it out to prove that he knows it all. At least Subban is creating offense, and is the most exciting defenseman I have ever seen in the WJC...

Pieterangelo and Hickey have been Horrid.

Our weakness is being too fancy on rushes.
Our defense is suspect, and goaltending inconsistent. But we've come through in tough situations, so.. I hope for the best against our toughest challenge yet.

All the D have been pretty brutal turning the puck over, but McGuire seems to love to point out Subban when he does. It's because McGuire read it somewhere and needs to point it out to prove that he knows it all. At least Subban is creating offense, and is the most exciting defenseman I have ever seen in the WJC...

Pieterangelo and Hickey have been Horrid.

McGuire knows what a D should look like....that's why he thinks that Alexei Emelin is the best d-man that doesn't play in the NHL......:sarcasm:

And then he goes and say things completely differently.....don't remember during which game this week but both him and Gord were discussing how great he looked during preseason games in Montreal and that he was closer to the NHL than most people think.....but then he's so horrible....

It's McGuire.

The problem is there's no shutdown pairing.

Wondering why Thomas Hickey is struggling so much?

It's pretty obvious. It's called tough minutes against tough opposition. Yes he excelled in the previous two tournaments but that's due in large part to playing against soft opposition. He isn't big or strong enough to deal with power forwards and his hockey sense has taken a gigantic **** lately. The only thing he's shutting down is Canada's drive for 5 chances.

Teubert hasn't been the greatest either and I really anticipated that he'd be more physical and strong in the defensive zone. Myers has probably been Canada's best defensemen to this point and that doesn't say a lot (maybe Subban as well who's been very solid). Don't even get me started on Goloubef and Pietrangelo who are both clearly out of place in this tournament (especially Goloubef).

You cant really quantify who is hotter...nonetheless, neither were given a chance.

Riopel, while not being my favourite goalie, its hard to argue what hes done this year. But hes not NHL drafted, so Hockey Canada ignores him. No shock there.

Huh? They have undrafted guys on the team. Generally they like to try and get an older goaltender who has been in some big games.

Huh? They have undrafted guys on the team. Generally they like to try and get an older goaltender who has been in some big games.

They have undrafted guys who havent been eligible, but none who went undrafted through their draft year.

Hickey looked indecisive and uncomfortable, Subban was too flashy at the beginning and Teubert didn't play the shutdown role that Quinn wanted him to. Honestly the only defensemen that somewhat impressed me that game was Tyler Myers.

agreed....myers and aulie played a far better game than our top pair. hickey was absolutely terrible, but got his act together in the OT......goaltending is our achillis heel

Subban had an excellent round-robinbut he did not have a good game against Russia. None of our defencemen did. Subban has been tremendous on the PP. We owe a lot of that 60 per cent PP clip from the round-robin to Subban. And he has been effective in his own zone. He was not as effective on the point against Russia, and he was burned twice on the spin-o-ramas. It's one thing to try that against the Czechs, Kazakhs or Germans. It's another thing to do that in a tight game in the semi-final.

Pieterangelo's gaffe contributed to the first goal (although it started with a botched two-on-one). Hickey made another bad giveaway on the second goal. Myers made a mistake on the third. The defence was caught standing around on the fifth goal. Subban took a bad penalty to set up the fourth goal.

Hickie's an excellent defenceman who has had a bad tournament. He's one of the best defencemen in the CHL. He hasn't found the same chemistry with Teubert that he had with Schenn. And I don't think he has handled the pressure of being captain for Team Canada in a tournament played in Ottawa. But with seven 89-born players playing in the show this year, and our best junior aged leaders in the NHL (Sutter, Doughty, Schenn), leadership was going to be a question mark. And it showed when two 90-born players were named alternates.

It's also a younger defence. Ellis, Teubert, Myers and Pieterangelo are all eligible to return next year. Pieterangelo might not be back, but I wouldn't be surprised if all four are back. This year's tournament should be a valuable learning experience for them.

Cowen was the most notable omission, IMO, from this year's camp roster, but I don't think he'd change much. He's a 1991-born player. Asking a 17-year-old kid to play a shut down role is asking a lot. He'll be a big part of this team next year.

our defense should go for simple plays rather than pretty and difficult ones

Cowen was the most notable omission, IMO, from this year's camp roster, but I don't think he'd change much. He's a 1991-born player. Asking a 17-year-old kid to play a shut down role is asking a lot. He'll be a big part of this team next year.

I'm also a big Kevin Marshall fan but I didn't see his camp so I can't comment if not being there was deserved. I know now that he would have done much better than most of them...I also like Brendan Smith but it seems that he had a very bad camp...Nobody talks how Cuma is missed though amongst the obvious other d-men...

Hickey has been truly horrible. For a 4th overall pick we certainly expect more. I'm baffled by how this dude with seemingly limited hockey sense and can't cover anyone went ahead of guys like Gagner, Varocek & Alzner. His pal Teubert has been scary to watch as well.

Offensively, yes.

But if you replay many of the key goals against Canada in this tournament, you'll see Subban was on at the ice at the time and was doing a lot of standing around.

When Klopov overpowered the Canadians to slip it by Tokarski for the 5th Russian goal, guess who was right there?

Wrong.
Until tonight Subban was not on the ice for a single even strength goal against.
I'm not saying he's the best defensive defenseman on team Canada this year, but considering his weakness is suppossed to be his play in our zone without the puck, he's definately doing better than some "defensive defenseman".
I found he did a good job of using his strength to take guys off the puck, and always found a way to either control the puck himself or get it to an open man in our zone to calm things down for a clean breakout.

The only problem I had with his game was the risky plays as the last man back. At the same time though, those are the plays that when they work everyone thinks the guys a hero for pulling them off.
All in all I think the only goal he was on for was the 5th goal by the Russians that your talking about. I didn't notice what he was doing on the replay so I can't comment on him, but I can say that it was another weak goal let in by Tokarski.

Hickey has been truly horrible. For a 4th overall pick we certainly expect more. I'm baffled by how this dude with seemingly limited hockey sense and can't cover anyone went ahead of guys like Gagner, Varocek & Alzner. His pal Teubert has been scary to watch as well.
As I said before, Hickey's played well in the Dub this year. He's a candidate for the top defenceman award. His offence hasn't come around like I thought it would, but He has not played well this year, due to a variety of factors (the captain's C, expectations of being the No. 1 D), but don't write him off just yet. He'll be a strong top-pairing calibre defenceman for years to come, and in a weak draft, that's a pretty good selection.

I'm also a big Kevin Marshall fan but I didn't see his camp so I can't comment if not being there was deserved. I know now that he would have done much better than most of them...I also like Brendan Smith but it seems that he had a very bad camp...Nobody talks how Cuma is missed though amongst the obvious other d-men...

If Cuma was playing with Subban Canada would have a very different look IMO. When the top pairing of Hickey and Teubert struggle, Quinn wouldn't hesitate to limit their minutes and play Cuma/Subban instead. Now he's in a tough spot because he's giving Subban more minutes and relying on him in key situations, but he does not want to rely on Goloubef who isn't that great, and he really does not want Pietrangelo or Ellis out there too much either. If Cuma were in then it would solve some problems out there.

This Canadian team certainly shows a lot more cracks then any Canadian Jr. team since 2003.
#1 problem- we are not getting our normal level of goaltending, the last three years the goaltenders were all spectacular (Mason, Price, Pogge) , tokarski has to step it up against Sweden, his pedigree certainly shows he can, and we need him to be big or we will be in trouble.

#2 Our defense is inconsistent, and prone to bad turnovers, Myers being a prime example, made some great plays, and yet coughed up one that directly caused a goal. Hickey was pretty bad for a good proportion of todays game, including making two mistakes on the 2nd goal of the game, turning it over and then failing to pick up the man on the rebound. Love Subban offensively but has to pick his spots for teh spin a little better (not to mention gord miller jinxed him, by saying he handnt been on for an even strength goal, 2 minutes later he gets scorced on)

#3 Our Forwards are truely pretty soft. They turn it over a lot. Eberle came up clutch today, but 5 on 5 he is incredible soft, I find it amazing pierre thinks he could actually play in the nhl next year, he gets pushed around majorly in jr hockey. Dido does a good job drawing penalties, and i can see flashes of brillance, but it seems he cant string anythign together, but then again that was the case with a lot of forwards today

basically we turn it over too much and to easily, and we are inconsistent as a team. Our pp hopefully can return to pre russia game stage. I'm just concerned Sweden will eat us alive if we play like we did tonight in the final, luckily fortune seems to be on our side at this time

I love how I just watched Jake Allen make a 38 saves shutout yesterday against one of the top 10 team in the whole CHL that includes the top 2 scorers in the QMJHL, while Allen's team were missing 5 of their regular forwards.

I seriously doubt he would have been worst than Tokarski in this tournament, but of course they had to take the older guy that won the Memorial Cup... I don't think that means he's the better goalie, probably just means he had a great team in front of him. There's a reason Allen was picked wayyy before Tokarski in the draft.

But hey the cards have been dealt and it is Tokarski's turn to shine. Hopefully the kid can bounce back and show us what he's made of. Don't want to say the obvious, but I get nervous breakdowns everytime a puck is shot towards him. Kinda like the feeling I get when Halak is in goal for the Habs recently. Terrible. :facepalm:

It's times like these that I really wish Doughty and Schenn were still with the team... Imagine how dominating those two would be this year

Hickey has been truly horrible. For a 4th overall pick we certainly expect more. I'm baffled by how this dude with seemingly limited hockey sense and can't cover anyone went ahead of guys like Gagner, Varocek & Alzner. His pal Teubert has been scary to watch as well.

If you didnt see the draft that year, LA was trying to trade down because they felt that that Hickey was a good fit for their team, but they couldn't find the right deal at the time, so they took the player that they wanted, it just so happened to be at the #4 slot, where he should have been picked somewhere in the 12-17 spot.

That being said he hasn't looked very good this tournament, I expected more out of him and teubert as the shutdown pairing. But all the defencemen in the last two games have not been that great, would have to say the best overal 5 on 5 would be Myers and Aulie, they have been very steady back there.

The two main problems with this team are nerves and shaky goaltending. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on these young kids, this is a young team that has shown its age in the last two games at times. Also being on home ice just adds to the pressure put on these kids, playing infront of 20000 people for the first time will make most 18 year olds cry and these guys are playin their hearts out but it is quite evident that they aren't used to the big crowds yet. Secondly with the goaltending has been average at best. Tokarski has been pretty bad IMO at best. He lets out big rebounds, is fighting the puck bigtime, and is letting in very weak goals at bad times, i.e. right after a Canada goal which happened twice today. The coaching staff will have a tough decsion to make before Monday on who will start. Tokarski hasn't looked very good and Pickard wasn't really tested in the games that he did play. The downside of putting Pickard in is that he hasn't played in a game like scenerio since Monday which would be a full week between starts. If I were in Quinn's position I think I would go with Chet Pickard, the team just seemed to have lost confidence in Tokarski and I think that it would be worth a shot to throw in Pickard for the game on Monday, I mean he can't do much worse that Tokarski has been, can he?

I love how I just watched Jake Allen make a 38 saves shutout yesterday against one of the top 10 team in the whole CHL that includes the top 2 scorers in the QMJHL, while Allen's team were missing 5 of their regular forwards.

I seriously doubt he would have been worst than Tokarski in this tournament, but of course they had to take the older guy that won the Memorial Cup... I don't think that means he's the better goalie, probably just means he had a great team in front of him. There's a reason Allen was picked wayyy before Tokarski in the draft.

But hey the cards have been dealt and it is Tokarski's turn to shine. Hopefully the kid can bounce back and show us what he's made of. Don't want to say the obvious, but I get nervous breakdowns everytime a puck is shot towards him. Kinda like the feeling I get when Halak is in goal for the Habs recently. Terrible. :facepalm:

I'm a BIG Allen, I mean really big, just think he'll have the same impact in the NHL than I thought Mason would when he was drafted......but he didn't help himself during the camp.

Offensively, yes.

But if you replay many of the key goals against Canada in this tournament, you'll see Subban was on at the ice at the time and was doing a lot of standing around.

When Klopov overpowered the Canadians to slip it by Tokarski for the 5th Russian goal, guess who was right there?

Well, until the Russia game, Subban hadn't been on the ice for a 5 on 5 goal. The 5th Russian goal was a bad play, but if blame has to fall on Canada players, it falls on Goloubef and maybe Tokarski. If anything, Subban should've been further from that battle to cover the slot in case the puck squirted out. He was also on the ice for another Russia goal, but he had nothing to do with the play. IIRC, it was a stick side long shot that Tokarski should have had.

Anyway, it's not to say Subban has been perfect. Far from it. As he showed in the first period against Russia, he can be a turnover machine if he's not focused. But overall, Subban has been Canada's best, as in most effective net result, defenceman this tournament.

I'm really questioning soem people honesty in all this. Then, you'll be able to question mine as well since he's a prospect of you know who.....But while Subban, and I admit, played definately his worst game to date in this tournament, are people actually really believe he's that bad defensively? Are people really blaming him on the Goncharov's goal where it's Pietrangelo who fell and Subban almost caught him while being at the other end of the blue line? Are people really blaming on the 5th goal where it was Goloubef who was closer, definately Goloubef's guy and Subban wasn't really able to do Goloubef's job 'cause he was in the way and all this despite the fact that most of the goals should have been stoppable by Tokarski?

Subban made a stupid play on the PP where his passing spinorama ended up almonst as a breakaway....still he corrected his mistake himself....anybody noticing it? Then a couple of other giveways during the game as well that could have been avoided....But did he lost that many 1 on 1 battles? I don't even remember 1 or 2....was physical, and won most of his battles, had some great first passes and some great rushes as well....

Just to note how people are biased towards him.....I read some comments about how risky he was in the OT when his "stupid" rushes.....does anyone know that there shouldn't be any risks involve since a forward should have recognized the rushes and take his place so there wouldn't be 2 on 1's? Not to mention that he's fast enough to comeback from those rushes, both rushes that ended up as great scoring chances. Is he perfect? No. Far from it. But the good things win over the bad things.....he's kinda leading the +/- category.....I would bet that a d-man that is so terrible, shouldn't lead that category even if you believe or not....

Besides, for whoever misses those great d-men that we had in previous tournaments and I kinda agree a little with that....strange that most MVP's were still the goalies and they had to be each and every one of them pretty sensationnal to see Canada win the gold.....Is that possible that some giveways, some turnovers that were made were saved A LOT by the Pogge's, the Price's and the Mason,s of this world at one point? As terrible this defensive squad is....chances are they could probably win the gold with one of the worst goalie that have worn this uniform in the past years....

I agree. Subban has been getting kind of a raw deal on these boards. I think he's being unfairly labeled as an "offensive defenceman who is horrible in his own zone". Hickey has been way worse defensively, and Teubert has shown weak puck moving skills throughout the tournament. IMO, Canada's top four defensemen have been Subban, Goulebef, Myers and Aulie.

agreed....myers and aulie played a far better game than our top pair. hickey was absolutely terrible, but got his act together in the OT......goaltending is our achillis heel

He DID play his best shifts of the game in OT. That says a lot about not only his charachter but the charachter of the coaches who REFUSED to sell-out Hickey (or any other player not having his best game).

The big name players have supplied MOST of the 'plus-side drama' and guys like Hickey, Delle Rovere, Teubert et al have had their share of mistakes...but if you take a FAIR and OBJECTIVE look at the OTHER teams in THIS tournanment as opposed to bringing up PAST Canadian players/performances...you will see that, CLEARLY, the energy level of this tournament is at an unprecedented new high and its effecting ALL the players and making for extremely unpredictable outcomes/moments every step along the way.

Great excitement and great efforts all around...but I'm well beyond blaming these kids for the mitsakes they make.

Its NERVES...through and through. If there were physical and/or clea athletic shortcomings or disadvantadges...I could get with saying 'our D is our weakness'.

But very easy to see were defiantley not carrying any VISIBLE disadvantadges back there on 'D'.

Any issues we encounter are the issues between our ears and I put that on the fact they are under the watchful eye of 'Father Canada' (20,000 nuts0o fans in the building and 3 M + at the couches).

If you want cool, calm and collected...you put them on a plane and play the tournament in Australia.

If you want the RAW emotion and the incredible high of adrenalin taking them (and ud) on a relentless roller-coaster of chaos and ultimatley VICTORY...you put in right in the middle of the NATION and you tell them to go do their best and thats what they are GIVING.

Stop the nit-picking and put your seat belt back on!!

Complacency , we underrated the Russians and it about bit us on the butts .If we come in and stick once again to Canadian hockey we will be fine .While we are not as big as past Canadian teams we still hit like bull .Anyone not yell when Myers skated through that Russian kid in OT ..we cheered louder for that than the shoot out goals .I felt really good about the way Canada elevated their play in the OT , they cleary dominated play .IF we show up with that level ..its 5 in a row !!!

Drew Doughty - Luke Schenn

Canada would be SO MUCH BETTER than they are right now. These guys are shutting down Ovechkin, Crosby etc.....

Hickey is absolutely brutal. There's a reason PKs on the ice for important moments, and not Pietrangelo or Hickey, because they're not playing up to expectations. I think there's alot of hate without valid reason, he's one of the main reasons we score so often. His spin-o-rama should be put away for now, but he has the speed to get back and make up for it. I think he's one of our best defensemen.

Hickey is absolutely brutal. There's a reason PKs on the ice for important moments, and not Pietrangelo or Hickey, because they're not playing up to expectations. I think there's alot of hate without valid reason, he's one of the main reasons we score so often. His spin-o-rama should be put away for now, but he has the speed to get back and make up for it. I think he's one of our best defensemen.

Check out the OT from the semi finals. Hickey is not only out there...he makes some strong rushes.

It was his first burst into the offensive zone that got momentum going our way and linked up to TC carrying the play for most of the OT.

If Doughty and Schenn had been sent back, Canada takes this tournament in a cakewalk.

They'd still need a goalie who can stop pucks... or a coach not afraid to pull the goalie when he's not playing well.

Hickey is absolutely brutal. There's a reason PKs on the ice for important moments, and not Pietrangelo or Hickey, because they're not playing up to expectations. I think there's alot of hate without valid reason, he's one of the main reasons we score so often. His spin-o-rama should be put away for now, but he has the speed to get back and make up for it. I think he's one of our best defensemen.

I agree PK is Canada's best defensmen. He had a sub par game on Saturday night but overall he's been the most defensively sound defensmen. I understand why people are so quick to critique his game. Pierre never has anything good to say about him so he must suck right?:sarcasm: On one of PK's goals Pierre was just screaming his head off about how big of a monster Ryan Ellis was for a routine play were he keeped a puck alive on the powerplay. You wouldn't have even known who scored the goal he wouldn't stop.

Pietrangelo is brutal defensively and has no intensity. After they won, that's the first time I actually saw some emotion out of him. A lot of games, he looked like he was just going through the motions. He needs a coach to challenge him defensively OR they should use him as a forward since he has a big body or put him on one of the lines to help Ennis and the small guys get the puck along the boards since he is physically strong.

Canada has the smallest forwards up-front. It's just too bad someone like Colton Gillies wasn't on the team, strength along the boards is a big thing.

This is also why our firepower can look invisible 5 on 5 because they are too small+soft and lack physical strength.

the only good solid defenceman ive seen are subban and ellis but even them at times havent been very good pietrangelo has been a disapointment maybe tyler cuma would have faired better them him

Tyler Cuma was injured. Otherwise for sure he would have made the team. Quinn loves him.

I beleive Canada really missed a player like Dana Tyrell yesterday. He is intense, good defensivly and a real momentum guy. He was slated to play with Tavares.

The really sad part is he blew out his knee in a tournament exhibition game and is gone for the year.

Offensively, yes.

But if you replay many of the key goals against Canada in this tournament, you'll see Subban was on at the ice at the time and was doing a lot of standing around.

When Klopov overpowered the Canadians to slip it by Tokarski for the 5th Russian goal, guess who was right there?

http://stats.iihf.com/Hydra/172/IHM172Z11_85G_1_0.pdf

According to this, Subban has been on the ice for 2 even strength goals against. Both coming in that Russia game. He's not a key PK guy, pun not intended, so he's not on the ice for most PK situations. Saying he was on for 'many' anything against is simply not true.


Tokarski is our weakness. Every time an opposing player has the puck at the right wing side, my heart skips a beat cause a shot from there seems more than likely to go in.

I'm slightly biased but I think the myers-aulie pairing has played the best. Subban is probably our best individual defender when he doesn't have a brain cramp...Hickey and Teubert are not playing up to what we need/expected of them. Pietrangelo has been our worst d-man and that surprises me. Ellis is solid on the PP but you can see he's not strong enough for 5 on 5 yet. Goloubef has been useless out there which makes it harder on Subban...
Who would think that bringing 8 d-men and we're still lacking :shakehead
also goaltending needs to be improved but I think they'll play well enough not to lose Canada the game.

That "Shut-down" pair hasn't been doing it's job quite well.

They'd still need a goalie who can stop pucks... or a coach not afraid to pull the goalie when he's not playing well.

The thing is though, Luke Schenn would play goalie, and coach the team.. that's something you've overlooked :sarcasm:

I thought the defence played a much better game, they kept it simple, no big moves, good dump ins, looks like Quinn got his message across.

It would appear they dont have one .