Bouwmeester Speculation and Talk

I admit that I have called for the Devils to go after Jay-Bo hard in the off season. I also new that he hasn't reached his potential yet. However, I was surprised to learn that he scored his first goal of the season last night and only had 8 helpers.

Is this guy worth say $7 million per for over 5 years? I'm not to sure now and will he ever be that stud defensemen that was predicted? I'm not even sure he can be considered a shut down defensemen. He's big, but not that physical, great skater for a big man, but yet only 9 pts. and will be lucky to hit 35 pts. for the season. I now consider him a big risk financially and not sure he's what we need.

He's lacking motivation.

Then again I doubt that is a trait Lou likes. If you are a good or even great player, you make the best of your situation.

Oduya NJ 21 1 10 11 +8 4
J-Bo FLA 21 1 9 10 -6 24

:sarcasm:

I think he's not worth what we would have to trade to get him.

Oduya NJ 21 1 10 11 +8 4
J-Bo FLA 21 1 9 10 -6 24

:sarcasm:

John Oduya is the posterboy of what is wrong with our defence. ;)

Yes, and no. He's overrated and definitely doesn't deserve the money that he's most likely going to get, but at the same time, he's still a very good player who would certainly improve our lineup.

He's an upgrade to a few of our D-men, and he's got potenial to still get better, but he's a player we would need to trade to get.........once he's a free agent, his name alone will add 2 mil to his contract. And I can think of one team near by that'll give him a PHAT MAX contract...(I know they're maxed out, but they would if they could)

John Oduya is the posterboy of what is wrong with our defence. ;)

Johnny has really brought his game up a notch, ever since that end to end against the Canes last year.....I think he's becoming a household name in this league.
Man imagine if Mottau could follow Johnnys lead, that'd be o-tay !!

For me, he is a bit overated. He has never played in the playoff, so you can't expected anything without experience. And for the salary he's expect to get...But I'll take a chance on him, but if you trade for him, you have to be sure he will sign for the right price. Not at 7 millions per year.

I admit that I have called for the Devils to go after Jay-Bo hard in the off season. I also new that he hasn't reached his potential yet. However, I was surprised to learn that he scored his first goal of the season last night and only had 8 helpers.

Is this guy worth say $7 million per for over 5 years? I'm not to sure now and will he ever be that stud defensemen that was predicted? I'm not even sure he can be considered a shut down defensemen. He's big, but not that physical, great skater for a big man, but yet only 9 pts. and will be lucky to hit 35 pts. for the season. I now consider him a big risk financially and not sure he's what we need.

From what i saw at the IIHF WC in Quebec city, he wasn't all that good and i can honestly say that he was the worst d-men for team Canada. Playing in Florida won't help his cause and his progression but if he get's the chance to have a mentor like Larry Robinson, this kid would have the chance to reach his FULL potential. Is he worth 7M$ over the next 5 years or so... Yes. He's still young, hasn't reached his prime yet and can log huge minutes.

Question, who would you rather have...

The 31 year old Wade Redden at 6M$ over the next 6 years
Vs
The 25 year old Jay Bouwmeester at roughly the same kinda contract


I think the answer is kinda obvious :naughty:

Bouw's not playing all that great so far this year in what's his contract year. Not sure what the problem is, other than he's dying to get out. Hard to tell since he really looks like he's enjoying having some of the guys out there (like Ballard and McCabe), but his production isn't what most expect out of him. He's playing more like a defensive defenseman than the offensive defenseman that the Panthers drafted him to be.

Many of us feel that we need to move him now, not later. He can hopefully bring in a top center that will be able to slide in between Stillman and Frolik.

I think Jay is just bored and its affecting his play. He needs a change in scenery, pronto.

IMO overrated but take him on my team anyday:

PROS
Hes BIG
Hes YOUNG
Hes PLAYED ON REALLY CRAPPY TEAMS
ALL Teams Love Him, But He CAN LEARN IN NO BETTER SYSTEM THEN THE DEVILS
He will DEF THRIVE HERE

CONS
Hes had some deceent parters over the years; Hell Better Tandams Than Ours
Played Behind GREAT GOALIES and theSECOND BEST GOALIE EVER
Starting to show some unachiever qualities
I Don't Think We Have What FLA Wants For Him and Im Keepig The 1st

Anything I missed?

I think Jay is just bored and its affecting his play. He needs a change in scenery, pronto.

good point it happens

I really haven't watched him play too much, but he hasn't really impressed me that much. But he is a Panther, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Even the greatest players need some talented teammates. I say right now he is a good dman but if he were to come to our team or a team that preaches defensive responsibilities he would become an elite player. Its similar with what Stevens was before the Devils and what he became with the Devils. Everyone see's the talent that J-Bouw has he just needs to get with the right fit to take his game to the next level.

Even the greatest players need some talented teammates. I say right now he is a good dman but if he were to come to our team or a team that preaches defensive responsibilities he would become an elite player. Its similar with what Stevens was before the Devils and what he became with the Devils. Everyone see's the talent that J-Bouw has he just needs to get with the right fit to take his game to the next level.

Yeah put him with Martin and put Oduya with Salvador and we got ourselves a legit top 4 there.

I watched him play closely last night against the rangers. he is pretty impressive for the most part when you combine his size and skating ability. he is like a bigger colin white that doesn't have tunnel vision and can actually move the puck up and cross ice. i noticed a few bone head plays he made, i also note he had a couple against the devils.

i think in the devils system where he does not feel the pressure to be the savoir in an organization he could very well thrive, and live up to his #1 round potential in short order. if the devils were to get him in a trade this season and did not have to give any other vital roster member up, they automatically become the favorite in the eastern conference and for that reason i feel giving up a #1 pick a marginal roster player ie: a mike mattua, and a prospect is worth it.

i would also like to point out that the rangers are 6-1 in the shootout and have beaten TAmpa 4 times already. i am starting to see cracks and flaws in the rangers game. they are an extremely well coached team, with great goaltending,great penalty killing, and a great work ethic, but they will struggle with the goal scoring and they also give up lots of chances for a team that revolves around team defense.

I agree with you Mr. Conte.....

Nahh, he's a scrub.

Is just me, or does he always score on the Devs?

I watched him play closely last night against the rangers. he is pretty impressive for the most part when you combine his size and skating ability. he is like a bigger colin white that doesn't have tunnel vision and can actually move the puck up and cross ice. i noticed a few bone head plays he made, i also note he had a couple against the devils.

i think in the devils system where he does not feel the pressure to be the savoir in an organization he could very well thrive, and live up to his #1 round potential in short order. if the devils were to get him in a trade this season and did not have to give any other vital roster member up, they automatically become the favorite in the eastern conference and for that reason i feel giving up a #1 pick a marginal roster player ie: a mike mattua, and a prospect is worth it.

i would also like to point out that the rangers are 6-1 in the shootout and have beaten TAmpa 4 times already. i am starting to see cracks and flaws in the rangers game. they are an extremely well coached team, with great goaltending,great penalty killing, and a great work ethic, but they will struggle with the goal scoring and they also give up lots of chances for a team that revolves around team defense.

Unless you're giving up Tedenby as that prospect and somebody better than Mike Mottau (Travis Zajac perhaps), Florida would laugh you out of the room. In fact I'm not even sure Zajac + Tedenby + 1st gets it done for Bouwmeester.

lets wait till free agency, until then uncle lou can do another salvador trade for all i care. maybe pl3 for someone.

Thinking he wouldn't feel pressure to be our savior is an absolute fallacy.

Regardless of where he goes, he's going to need at least a season to fully improve from where he is. He's not a well rounded player right now and it seems evident to me that he hasn't been well-coached at all. He lacks structure in his game, it seems more like he's out there just doing what he wants rather than having been coached to play intelligently which is why he does misplay the man/puck a few times per game at the very least.

I would still love to have him, but there is little doubt he's going to be a project, not just a plug the guy in and watch him go type deal.

Unless you're giving up Tedenby as that prospect and somebody better than Mike Mottau (Travis Zajac perhaps), Florida would laugh you out of the room. In fact I'm not even sure Zajac + Tedenby + 1st gets it done for Bouwmeester.

But waiting till July might ;)

But waiting till July might ;)

I'm not exactly sure why a rebuilding Florida team would let the best player on their team walk. They have to reach a cap floor, so why not do it with one of the best defensemen in hockey?

I say we take our eyes of the most delectable prize. We aren't going to get him.

I'm not exactly sure why a rebuilding Florida team would let the best player on their team walk. They have to reach a cap floor, so why not do it with one of the best defensemen in hockey?

I take it you haven't paid close attention to that situation in Florida. Bouwmeester never wanted to stay to begin with and is basically his last season there no matter what.

Florida can't force his hand in putting the pen to paper when he doesn't even want to be there. So while I'm sure they want to keep him, seems he wants nothing more than to go elsewhere.

But if he becomes a trade deadline deal, does he sign there or still test the FA waters?

But if he becomes a trade deadline deal, does he sign there or still test the FA waters?

Well I don't think his 1 yr deal has a NTC so he could end up anywhere and not necessarily where he wants to be. I'm pretty sure Florida isn't going to give a **** where he goes so long as the return is worth it.

I take it you haven't paid close attention to that situation in Florida. Bouwmeester never wanted to stay to begin with and is basically his last season there no matter what.

Florida can't force his hand in putting the pen to paper when he doesn't even want to be there. So while I'm sure they want to keep him, seems he wants nothing more than to go elsewhere.

That all may be true, but if they throw a ridiculous contract at the kid it may change his opinion. If we've learned one thing about NHL players, it's that they love money. It is entirely possible that they are finished with him and will deal him at the deadline, but like I said earlier, I'm not sure the Devils have a package that gets it done.

If they came to Lou and said Tenedby + Zajac + 1st (09) + 1 (10), do you really want him to make that deal. I would think not.

That all may be true, but if they throw a ridiculous contract at the kid it may change his opinion. If we've learned one thing about NHL players, it's that they love money. It is entirely possible that they are finished with him and will deal him at the deadline, but like I said earlier, I'm not sure the Devils have a package that gets it done.

If they came to Lou and said Tenedby + Zajac + 1st (09) + 1 (10), do you really want him to make that deal. I would think not.

I'm pretty sure they did offer him a ridiculous contract and he rejected it and asked to be traded but Florida refused, went for arbitration and got their 1 year tender.

I refuse to trade for him, it's not worth it when he's gonna be a UFA and the one appeal NJ does have is to defensemen.

Well I don't think his 1 yr deal has a NTC so he could end up anywhere and not necessarily where he wants to be. I'm pretty sure Florida isn't going to give a **** where he goes so long as the return is worth it.

Yeah my point is probably the only way Lou could get him would be via trade, but would he sign here because I'm sure as a FA teams out there would be ready to drop a boat load for him. Or is really, really looking to win and would take a bit less to go to a solid org. Any which way, I just can't see him here, hope I'm wrong though.

Yeah my point is probably the only way Lou could get him would be via trade, but would he sign here because I'm sure as a FA teams out there would be ready to drop a boat load for him. Or is really, really looking to win and would take a bit less to go to a solid org. Any which way, I just can't see him here, hope I'm wrong though.

The way I see it is this.......would he rather sign for 6 million a year on some team with the money to spend and no hope at winning, or go to a club that he knows has the best goaltending in the league (next season) and somehow, someway, always has a chance to take a shot at the cup?

If he's more worried about the money than winning, I don't want the dbag anyway. I'll take a guy driven to win over a guy driven to get paid.

The way I see it is this.......would he rather sign for 6 million a year on some team with the money to spend and no hope at winning, or go to a club that he knows has the best goaltending in the league (next season) and somehow, someway, always has a chance to take a shot at the cup?

If he's more worried about the money than winning, I don't want the dbag anyway. I'll take a guy driven to win over a guy driven to get paid.

But there are very few of those these days(I don't count Hossa:shakehead). I think how he's handled this and his dad also shooting his mouth could be enough to keep Lou away or at least very leery about acquiring him in any way.

The way I see it is this.......would he rather sign for 6 million a year on some team with the money to spend and no hope at winning, or go to a club that he knows has the best goaltending in the league (next season) and somehow, someway, always has a chance to take a shot at the cup?

If he's more worried about the money than winning, I don't want the dbag anyway. I'll take a guy driven to win over a guy driven to get paid.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself with the goaltending thing. Marty is going to be a late 30's goaltender coming off a very serious injury, scary. The guy is a legend, but it is going to be some feat for him to come back as strong as ever.

I do agree with you about choosing money over winning, it's a problem. However if I were the Devils and the price came down on him at the deadline, I would have to make that trade even if it was just a rental. Obviously you wouldn't give up your best prospect, a top six forward and two first rounders; but you'd have to consider a first rounder and Zajac.

The way I see it is this.......would he rather sign for 6 million a year on some team with the money to spend and no hope at winning, or go to a club that he knows has the best goaltending in the league (next season) and somehow, someway, always has a chance to take a shot at the cup?

If he's more worried about the money than winning, I don't want the dbag anyway. I'll take a guy driven to win over a guy driven to get paid.

this

But there are very few of those these days(I don't count Hossa:shakehead). I think how he's handled this and his dad also shooting his mouth could be enough to keep Lou away or at least very leery about acquiring him in any way.

Well he's a great d-man but he has some pretty important flaws in his game, so while his upside is much of what we need, his flaws aren't worth overpaying for him if he thinks he's too good to improve on his game as it stands.

So maybe you can't blame Lou for not wanting any part of that. Last thing we need is overpaying someone when we already have with some other guys, particularly Pando and Rolston at this juncture.

Well he's a great d-man but he has some pretty important flaws in his game, so while his upside is much of what we need, his flaws aren't worth overpaying for him if he thinks he's too good to improve on his game as it stands.

So maybe you can't blame Lou for not wanting any part of that. Last thing we need is overpaying someone when we already have with some other guys, particularly Pando and Rolston at this juncture.

Agreed. Would get another solid #2 type without over paying or letting Salmela and Greene, when he returns, grow and see what the other kids have. Money or prospects, over paying for is not the route I would like to see taken. At a decent FA price tag, sure why not.

i could see lou looking elsewhere for defensive help more and more. bouwmeester, while he prolly would be great, doesnt seem likely to happen. i can see lou eyeing someone like brewer. although he is the blues captain and i have no idea what his contract status is. who knows. i cant think about that crap anymore. i realize lou is lou, we dont neccessarily have the assets to get what other teams can and again, lou is lou. rentals are most likely outta the question since we all know lou will likely let gio walk for nothing as per the norm and not trade him. i just dont see lou doing anything. especially something as blockbusterish like getting bouwmeester.

Agreed. Would get another solid #2 type without over paying or letting Salmela and Greene, when he returns, grow and see what the other kids have. Money or prospects, over paying for is not the route I would like to see taken. At a decent FA price tag, sure why not.

Yeah I mean sometimes you have to learn to be patient. Yes we have a need that we'd all like addressed but at what expense is the question. If Lou's apprehension is positive in any way it's that he's typically wary of overpaying for UFA's. I know some argue Zubrus is overpaid, but right now I don't think he is. Last season maybe, but expecting him to come in and change this team alone was a foolish expectation. But this season this guy is one of the best on the ice night in and night out on both ends. Maybe we didn't see that but Lou did.

So when it comes to Bouwmeester I'm going to fully trust Lou's discretion because I think in that area he knows better than we do. Now if only we could get him to loose his sentimental attitude toward some guys. haha.

We also forget the high hopes of Corrente that many in this organization have of him. Maybe he comes in next year and can fill an important role. I know he's been struggling some in the AHL, but that could be because of any number of things.

Yeah I mean sometimes you have to learn to be patient. Yes we have a need that we'd all like addressed but at what expense is the question. If Lou's apprehension is positive in any way it's that he's typically wary of overpaying for UFA's. I know some argue Zubrus is overpaid, but right now I don't think he is. Last season maybe, but expecting him to come in and change this team alone was a foolish expectation. But this season this guy is one of the best on the ice night in and night out on both ends. Maybe we didn't see that but Lou did.

So when it comes to Bouwmeester I'm going to fully trust Lou's discretion because I think in that area he knows better than we do. Now if only we could get him to loose his sentimental attitude toward some guys. haha.

We also forget the high hopes of Corrente that many in this organization have of him. Maybe he comes in next year and can fill an important role. I know he's been struggling some in the AHL, but that could be because of any number of things.

:laugh: Yeah, he is getting a bit grandpa-ish and showing too much heart sometimes. I like Corrente and I know how much you like him, but it's nice to dream about a tall blue liner with good O skills wearing the red and black. Not a big necessity at the moment though, but a nice dream.

:laugh: Yeah, he is getting a bit grandpa-ish and showing too much heart sometimes. I like Corrente and I know how much you like him, but it's nice to dream about a tall blue liner with good O skills wearing the red and black. Not a big necessity at the moment though, but a nice dream.

I really think Corrente is going to be a perfect mold of Bieksa.

Which is Bieksallent.

I really think Corrente is going to be a perfect mold of Bieksa.

Which is Bieksallent.

:laugh:

Oh, and I checked out FFB, nice sound.

Corrente has the edge to his game, just like Bieksa does...but he just doesn't have the offensive skills/potential that Bieksa does. Corrente is more of a stay at home d-man while Bieksa is an offensive d-man with a great shot....

I really think Corrente is going to be a perfect mold of Bieksa.

Which is Bieksallent.

He's still got a long way to go before he can be a Bieksa clone. I don't think he's going to be nearly as good offensively as he was in juniors. He'll probably be a top 4 defensive defenseman at best, putting up 10-15 points a season.

He's still got a long way to go before he can be a Bieksa clone. I don't think he's going to be nearly as good offensively as he was in juniors. He'll probably be a top 4 defensive defenseman at best, putting up 10-15 points a season.

If he can instill fear in guys and make them keep their heads up at all times, I think that would serve this team well to begin with.

I, for one, am not expecting offense from Corrente, just tenacity and physical play.

If he can instill fear in guys and make them keep their heads up at all times, I think that would serve this team well to begin with.

I, for one, am not expecting offense from Corrente, just tenacity and physical play.

Thats what i am expecting too. If he can be a top 4 physical defensively crease clearing defenseman, i will be ecstatic. I hope he is maturing down in Lowell and can become a leadership guy. I agree with Das Weeonta about the points. Now that i think of it, i think he can turn into a Brendan Witt rather than a Bieksa.

Thats what i am expecting too. If he can be a top 4 physical defensively crease clearing defenseman, i will be ecstatic. I hope he is maturing down in Lowell and can become a leadership guy. I agree with Das Weeonta about the points. Now that i think of it, i think he can turn into a Brendan Witt rather than a Bieksa.
I think Corrente has Bieksa potential. His offensive production at the AHL level hasn't blown anyone away but he is on pace for 30 points on the season and he's just starting to figure his game out on the pro level right now and I expect his point-per-game ratio to increase, making Corrente's current season comparable to Bieksa's first full AHL season.

I think Corrente has Bieksa potential. His offensive production at the AHL level hasn't blown anyone away but he is on pace for 30 points on the season and he's just starting to figure his game out on the pro level right now and I expect his point-per-game ratio to increase, making Corrente's current season comparable to Bieksa's first full AHL season.

Oh yeah no doubt, i was just saying i would be happy even if he didnt hit the 30 or so point range.

The only untouchables for me are the following:

Halischuk, Parise, Zajac, Elias, Zubrus, Brodeur and Martin and Corrente.


I don't know if the rest of the team is a good fit for the Panthers in terms of trades. however, come July 1 he can be had. However, Zajac and Oduya as well as Madden as well as others need to be signed.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself with the goaltending thing. Marty is going to be a late 30's goaltender coming off a very serious injury, scary. The guy is a legend, but it is going to be some feat for him to come back as strong as ever.

I do agree with you about choosing money over winning, it's a problem. However if I were the Devils and the price came down on him at the deadline, I would have to make that trade even if it was just a rental. Obviously you wouldn't give up your best prospect, a top six forward and two first rounders; but you'd have to consider a first rounder and Zajac.

My bad, I didn't see this post earlier for some reason, I didn't intentionally ignore it.

You're right, bouncing back from the injury will be difficult, but thus far Marty has mostly looked ageless. So I really think that he's still going to be at or near the top in the league.

And honestly, why do we need a rental this year? As far as I can tell that should be the last thing we're concerned with because right now, yes we still are in contention for the playoffs, but really to me there is no point in getting to the big show if you don't plan on winning a cup. Not for nothing but, this isn't a cup champion team right here and if we did even just make it to the SCF this year, it might be the most improbable run to the big series in the modern era of the playoffs.

Renting a guy at that cost with this team is just a ridiculous notion. I'd rather be patient, hope he hits the market and moreover wants to be here at an honest salary and not the bloated **** going around these past two years. Otherwise, I'd still rather look within if we can't land a decent FA. Something that's helped us remain cohesive and strong is the fact we've built many of our key components over the years. Sure I want to win a cup every year but it's an unrealistic desire since you're not going to win one every year and if you ask me, this is not our year.

Honestly, even with their flaws, when I look around the East, I'll sort of be amazed if the Rags don't make it to at least the ECF.

My bad, I didn't see this post earlier for some reason, I didn't intentionally ignore it.

You're right, bouncing back from the injury will be difficult, but thus far Marty has mostly looked ageless. So I really think that he's still going to be at or near the top in the league.

And honestly, why do we need a rental this year? As far as I can tell that should be the last thing we're concerned with because right now, yes we still are in contention for the playoffs, but really to me there is no point in getting to the big show if you don't plan on winning a cup. Not for nothing but, this isn't a cup champion team right here and if we did even just make it to the SCF this year, it might be the most improbable run to the big series in the modern era of the playoffs.

Renting a guy at that cost with this team is just a ridiculous notion. I'd rather be patient, hope he hits the market and moreover wants to be here at an honest salary and not the bloated **** going around these past two years. Otherwise, I'd still rather look within if we can't land a decent FA. Something that's helped us remain cohesive and strong is the fact we've built many of our key components over the years. Sure I want to win a cup every year but it's an unrealistic desire since you're not going to win one every year and if you ask me, this is not our year.

Honestly, even with their flaws, when I look around the East, I'll sort of be amazed if the Rags don't make it to at least the ECF.

I think if this Devils team were to hang around the 5 or 6 spot until about the time Marty is ready to come back they could be a serious contender. That's why I think Lou would have to go ahead and make a move for a guy like Bouwmeester. We all know what the Devils downfall has been these past few years, a worn down Marty. If they had a 90% and well rested Marty they could be a dangerous team in a seven game series, especially if they added a stud defenseman.

As far as the Rangers go, they are a deeply flawed team right now. They can't score in enough quantity to really scare anybody. However if they ever get lines to click, they could be the most dangerous team in hockey. They have the best goaltender in the game right now and a solid defensive core that reminds me of the Devils core from the early 2000's. If Drury, Gomez and Naslund ever start scoring at their potential, this team could be a serious Cup contender. That has to happen before I consider them an ECF team however.

If it was a leg injury I would be concerned, but I dont see any problem concerning a world class goalie coming back from a bicep injury.

I think if this Devils team were to hang around the 5 or 6 spot until about the time Marty is ready to come back they could be a serious contender. That's why I think Lou would have to go ahead and make a move for a guy like Bouwmeester. We all know what the Devils downfall has been these past few years, a worn down Marty. If they had a 90% and well rested Marty they could be a dangerous team in a seven game series, especially if they added a stud defenseman.

As far as the Rangers go, they are a deeply flawed team right now. They can't score in enough quantity to really scare anybody. However if they ever get lines to click, they could be the most dangerous team in hockey. They have the best goaltender in the game right now and a solid defensive core that reminds me of the Devils core from the early 2000's. If Drury, Gomez and Naslund ever start scoring at their potential, this team could be a serious Cup contender. That has to happen before I consider them an ECF team however.

I do agree that we'd be a better playoff team with Marty back (assuming he hits his timetable) and we might not be the worst team coming out of the East. But like you said, our vulnerable defense is something that has been our downfall over the years. However our most valuable assets are exactly what we need to keep to remain in contention, with the only guy (in my opinion) worth moving is Gionta, who likely wouldn't bring the kind of return we need alone. It's not that I'm past trading some guys, but I feel like, at least right now, the guys we can live without are strangely a majority of the ones we signed in the off-season: Holik, Rolston, Pandolfo. Rolston can still prove his worth more, but at the rate he was going before that game, he wasn't going to earn much of his keep around here. Sadly only Holik is honestly movable and really what can you get for a guy like that?

I'm not saying we need to go bomb the season, but I have no problem with conceding the goal of winning a cup and maybe just settling for a playoff birth as attainable and really something to be proud of considering the challenges we faced within the first two months.

In regard to the Rangers, I think Renney needs to give that team more structure. He went from playing a very tight, defensive game, to trying to open the game wide with the skill up front while still trying to play a similar defensive style. Plus Scott Gomez is the most predictable player on the ice by far, carry the puck up, probably stop short about half-way in, or cut across the center of the ice and if he decides to shoot it's probably going to miss the net completely. Sure he opens up the game with his speed and puck carrying skills but at the end of the day it's one-dimensional and is only playing to HIS strengths and not the unit as a whole's.

Those are things you pick up on as time goes on, but I think it's going to take a few losses and some pressure to make him realize it. Thus far (and I watch most games so long as the Devils aren't on) it looks like he's just sticking with what's been working and not worrying about a lot of the realities that lie within this team. They blew that game yesterday with a healthy squad and top goaltender like we did 2 nights before with half a healthy team and arguably a AHLer in net. It's sort of inexcusable. Not to take away from Booth or Florida at all but that game was in hand if they had some more cohesion and weren't just a highly skilled mental mess.

Either way though they have the right components in a weakened Eastern Conference to make the finals. Boston is a nice story right now but I still think NY is better in the long-run. I also think that, despite their consistency, Philly will challenge for the EC title again this year. We'll see, it's early and a lot can happen in an NHL season, us being a prime example right now. haha

BOUWMEESTER!!!

I'd love to see him in NJ, but I don't think Lou will be throwing a max contract at him any time soon...

BOUWMEESTER!!!

I'd love to see him in NJ, but I don't think Lou will be throwing a max contract at him any time soon...

the max i would give to Jbow is 7 million and nothing higher, if he doesnt like it their are other D-men

I think if this Devils team were to hang around the 5 or 6 spot until about the time Marty is ready to come back they could be a serious contender. That's why I think Lou would have to go ahead and make a move for a guy like Bouwmeester. We all know what the Devils downfall has been these past few years, a worn down Marty. If they had a 90% and well rested Marty they could be a dangerous team in a seven game series, especially if they added a stud defenseman.

As far as the Rangers go, they are a deeply flawed team right now. They can't score in enough quantity to really scare anybody. However if they ever get lines to click, they could be the most dangerous team in hockey. They have the best goaltender in the game right now and a solid defensive core that reminds me of the Devils core from the early 2000's. If Drury, Gomez and Naslund ever start scoring at their potential, this team could be a serious Cup contender. That has to happen before I consider them an ECF team however.
As good as the Rangers defense is, the 2000-2003 Devils defense was better than it in every conceivable way.

That all may be true, but if they throw a ridiculous contract at the kid it may change his opinion. If we've learned one thing about NHL players, it's that they love money. It is entirely possible that they are finished with him and will deal him at the deadline, but like I said earlier, I'm not sure the Devils have a package that gets it done.

If they came to Lou and said Tenedby + Zajac + 1st (09) + 1 (10), do you really want him to make that deal. I would think not.

i guess if florida was smart they would wait until deadline, when a team may be willing to over pay for him. but i think this guy is a great fit for nj. i don't see why a #1, a top prospect and a decent roster player can't make the deal. i would not trade zajac as part of that deal if i were lou. bouwmeester is good but to give up the future and a talented young roster player is too much if you ask me, which may be what it takes.

As good as the Rangers defense is, the 2000-2003 Devils defense was better than it in every conceivable way.

agreed

I don't understand all these people thinking the Panthers are going to get a ton for a player everyone knows they have zero chance to re-sign.

I think you have to look at what Hossa fetched at the deadline, and work from there (Down I would think, no offence J-Bo).

I say we take our eyes of the most delectable prize. We aren't going to get him.

I agree entirely. Not much really to discuss as a team much closer to a cup will probably anti up for him near the deadline and be on their way. I know Florida isn't in a good negotiating position purely on their own merits but if a team feels they are close and a J-Bo is the answer they will be given very good compensation I am sure.

As good as the Rangers defense is, the 2000-2003 Devils defense was better than it in every conceivable way.

You certainly won't get an argument from me about that, those Devils defenses rank among the all time greats. There were two sure fire HOF'ers patrolling the blueline on those teams. With that being said, the Rangers have the strongest defense in the EC right now. Marc Staal and Danny Girardi are studs out there and as much as Roszival and Redden have disappointed, they are still top 4 guys right now. Granted, if it weren't for Henrik this entire Ranger team would be nowhere, however they are a solid unit. The problem like I said earlier, offense. They can't string together a week or two of solid offensive play, and that will kill them come postseason.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself with the goaltending thing. Marty is going to be a late 30's goaltender coming off a very serious injury, scary. The guy is a legend, but it is going to be some feat for him to come back as strong as ever.

The tendon he injured was already partially torn. I'm pretty sure he'll be all set once he's back.

You certainly won't get an argument from me about that, those Devils defenses rank among the all time greats. There were two sure fire HOF'ers patrolling the blueline on those teams. With that being said, the Rangers have the strongest defense in the EC right now. Marc Staal and Danny Girardi are studs out there and as much as Roszival and Redden have disappointed, they are still top 4 guys right now. Granted, if it weren't for Henrik this entire Ranger team would be nowhere, however they are a solid unit. The problem like I said earlier, offense. They can't string together a week or two of solid offensive play, and that will kill them come postseason.

I agree, in part. But I don't believe NY is the top defense in the East, alone. I do think much of their success has to do with the relatively exceptional play of Queenie. However when I look at defense and defense alone I have to put Boston as at least an equal to NY. The bottom line being if you (or anyone) doesn't consider Tim Thomas on the same level as Henrik then you have to credit Boston's defense. His numbers right now are mind-boggling good. He's made roughly 130 less saves than Queenie in 7 less games, so he's facing the shots and his S% is through the roof.

Either way, I think you've gotta tip your hat to Boston too. And the emergence of that Hunwick guy on call for the injured Ference....quite the story as well.

If they came to Lou and said Tenedby + Zajac + 1st (09) + 1 (10), do you really want him to make that deal. I would think not.

I don't see how the Panthers would get that kind of package for Jaybo, even value wise I see it total overpayment and unrealistic.

I don't see how the Panthers would get that kind of package for Jaybo, even value wise I see it total overpayment and unrealistic.



If the trading history of the panthers comes through like it always seems to, they would be lucky to get Gionta, Bergfors, and a 3rd from us. People seem to forget the horrid trades the Florida organization has under its belt.....

It's time for Lou to use his hookups and get us J-Bo for nothing.

I don't want J-Bo at the price Florida will be asking for...so no, he's not coming here.

It's time for Lou to use his hookups and get us J-Bo for nothing.

:nod:

Cam trade part II.

Brookbank + Bergfors + 4th rounder.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/funny/Untitled-1-18.jpg

JBouw has not impressed this year at all. Statistically he has slowly been putting up numbers as of late. But watching his play, he's very hot / cold. He'll make a beautiful breakout pass, and then follow it up by shotty positioning.

I do think he would flourish here. We have great coaches in BigBird who can work with him in the off-season. The talent is there. He just needs to fine-tune everything. If we could get him for a low price (relatively speaking)/low terms deal... it could benefit both sides. He gets polished off and then can walk on to better things when its over (that's what she said)

His play sure hasn't impressed me either. I think we have Rookies that play just as well as he does and probably could reach a higher potential.

Do we want to create a further log jam to get this guy who still needs a lot of work to get better or do we just develop one of our Rookies to be THAT guy?

His behavior will hurt his value and what Florida will receive, that's for sure. The guy is dead set on leaving, so whether its now or in the offseason is up to him. If teams start the "bidding" early on, and with Florida's trading record, he could be had for a lot lett than people are suggesting.

In either case, Florida needs to add some veteran forwards to get real leadership and experience on the team.

I don't understand all these people thinking the Panthers are going to get a ton for a player everyone knows they have zero chance to re-sign.

I think you have to look at what Hossa fetched at the deadline, and work from there (Down I would think, no offence J-Bo).

Of the big deadline deals in the new NHL:

Forsberg = Upshall, Parent, 1st and 3rd (in a weak draft year)
Hossa = Armstrong, Christensen, Esposito, 1st (in a deep draft year)
Campbell = Bernier, 1st (in a deep draft year)

The supposed asking price for Bouwmeester right now is a young NHL player, a decent prospect, and a first. Personally seems right in line with the Forsberg/Hossa/Campbell rental deals.

Other teams will probably be much better equipped to make that sort of deal that we currently are. Ottawa can probably offer up Antoine Vermette in a package and Philly can think about dealing Joffrey Lupul (with JVR coming eventually).

I must be the only one who thinks the Dev's need go out and get another Stay-@-Home physical Defensemen.

We are getting more production from our defense than we have in a few years.

We already have 6 goals and 35 asisst from our Defense. Which isn't bad after a only a quarter season - and that is with Martin and Greene missing some time and a Rookie Salmela adjusting to the North American Game.

Martin/Oduya/Greene/Mottau/Salmela is ok for 2-way guys (Really only need 3)

White and Salvador - Niether should be first pairing guys and 2nd pairing is debatable. Niether one should be playing 20+ minutes. If we added another S@H guy that could give an honest 20+ minutes and have Salvador and White on the 2nd and 3rd pairing that would be very good. Or better yet - Together I think they would make a fantastic 3rd pairing.

My bad, I didn't see this post earlier for some reason, I didn't intentionally ignore it.

You're right, bouncing back from the injury will be difficult, but thus far Marty has mostly looked ageless. So I really think that he's still going to be at or near the top in the league.

And honestly, why do we need a rental this year? As far as I can tell that should be the last thing we're concerned with because right now, yes we still are in contention for the playoffs, but really to me there is no point in getting to the big show if you don't plan on winning a cup. Not for nothing but, this isn't a cup champion team right here and if we did even just make it to the SCF this year, it might be the most improbable run to the big series in the modern era of the playoffs.

Renting a guy at that cost with this team is just a ridiculous notion. I'd rather be patient, hope he hits the market and moreover wants to be here at an honest salary and not the bloated **** going around these past two years. Otherwise, I'd still rather look within if we can't land a decent FA. Something that's helped us remain cohesive and strong is the fact we've built many of our key components over the years. Sure I want to win a cup every year but it's an unrealistic desire since you're not going to win one every year and if you ask me, this is not our year.

Honestly, even with their flaws, when I look around the East, I'll sort of be amazed if the Rags don't make it to at least the ECF.

Carolina in '02, Anaheim in '03, Calgary in '04, Edmonton in '06. The only way this team making the Stanley Cup Final would be the most improbable run to the final in the modern era would be if the modern era began in 2007.

I must be the only one who thinks the Dev's need go out and get another Stay-@-Home physical Defensemen.

I think we just need to add one more top 4 defender period. Don't think we can be too choosy since there are only going to be so many guys available. And I don't think we have expendable assets that it would take to get a potential rental like J-Bo.

Just taking a look around the league, you figure the non-playoff teams will be the sellers come deadline time. Obviously plenty of time for the standings to change, but:

Dallas: They got off to a slow start last year IIRC, but it might be a daunting task this year. (A healthy) Sergei Zubov would make our PP a lot better, but the price might be high. Stephane Robidas is eating 24 minutes a game this year and is +7 on a team where every other D is a minus. Both are RH which would be a nice addition. Zubov is UFA after the year, Robidas is signed for 1.5 through next season.

Phoenix: Derek Morris is also UFA after this year. A guy that everybody thought had 25 minute/50 points per year potential. But like Robidas, might not cost an arm and a leg to acquire.

Edmonton: Visnovsky and Souray are all signed long term which we might not be able to fit under the cap.

St. Louis: Jackman, McKee, and Brewer are all intriguing but are pricy against the cap.

Los Angeles: Tom Preissing has been inconsistent but is somewhat affordable against the cap.

Colorado: Jordan Leopold has disappeared due to injuries the past few years. Otherwise, he's supposed to be like Paul Martin. Not sure how much gas is left in Adam Foote's tank. Leopold is UFA after the season, Foote is signed through 2009.

Atlanta: I still think Mathieu Schneider could fit as a consolation prize to Bouwmeester. I like Garnet Exelby, but I think he'd be redundant to Salvador and White.

Toronto: From a talent perspective, Pavel Kubina would be a fit but he has a NTC and his 5 million dollar price tag for 2009 is likely more than we can afford. Don't think we have the assets for Tomas Kaberle, who also has a NTC.

Tampa/NYI: Not really spotting anybody on D.

I must be the only one who thinks the Dev's need go out and get another Stay-@-Home physical Defensemen.


I think with the style that Sutter wants to play (Puck possession), we don't need a stay at home defenseman. We need mobile defensemen who can skate fast to join in the attack or rush back for defense. Some of our stay at home defensemen are too slow for this system and it has led to some goals against us.

I think with the style that Sutter wants to play (Puck possession), we don't need a stay at home defenseman. We need mobile defensemen who can skate fast to join in the attack or rush back for defense. Some of our stay at home defensemen are too slow for this system and it has led to some goals against us.
Agreed. Pure stay-at-home defensemen don't cut it anymore - Salvador is an example of a defenseman who can skate, pass, and still play stay-at-home defense.

The problem I see with puck possession is when you lose possession. I think the only D-men I would really keep on this team for a possession type system would be Salvador, Martin, Greene and Oduya.

I think with the style that Sutter wants to play (Puck possession), we don't need a stay at home defenseman. We need mobile defensemen who can skate fast to join in the attack or rush back for defense. Some of our stay at home defensemen are too slow for this system and it has led to some goals against us.

Weren't you arguing with me when I was trying to make the same point and quoted the Ken Holland Bible?

I think he's not worth what we would have to trade to get him.

yep, it would be very stupid to trade Zajac+ for a guy who may leave in the off season. let's take a run at him in the off season and if he doesnt sign then it just wasn't meant to be. simple as that.

I don't see how the Panthers would get that kind of package for Jaybo, even value wise I see it total overpayment and unrealistic.

Lou would probably rather give up a few fingers before giving up those assets.

Weren't you arguing with me when I was trying to make the same point and quoted the Ken Holland Bible?

No, you were right, I was playing devils advocate :P

Besides, all Mottau needs is a ton of skating lessons.

:nod:
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s93/vagel117/funny/Untitled-1-18.jpg

Hahahahhahaha.

It's probably a pipe dream, but assuming we're still competitive and Dallas remains in neutral:

NJ: D Sergei Zubov
DAL: D Tom Preissing, 2010 1st rounder (New Jersey)
LA: 2009 3rd rounder (New Jersey)

Zubov was still putting up 25 minutes a game last year, playing in all situations. At least statistically, his playoff production (.7222 PPG) has mirrored his regular season production (.7219). Dallas has been a good team in recent years at killing penalties (2nd in the NHL last year), so Zubov could conceivably help us there as well. And naturally he'd be a superb upgrade--provided he's healthy--as our PP QB. That and Lou seems to like anybody who was on the 2000 Dallas Stars.

As for the Stars, I'm not sure what kind of direction they're going to take. They could use a warm body like Preissing if they're dealing Zubov. The Kings are probably content enough to dump Preissing's remaining 2+ years now that they have Doughty and Quincey doing well and Hickey/Teubert potentially coming next year. We have an extra 3rd rounder from Minnesota as well.

[/pipe dream du jour]

It's probably a pipe dream, but assuming we're still competitive and Dallas remains in neutral:

NJ: D Sergei Zubov
DAL: D Tom Preissing, 2010 1st rounder (New Jersey)
LA: 2009 3rd rounder (New Jersey)

Zubov was still putting up 25 minutes a game last year, playing in all situations. At least statistically, his playoff production (.7222 PPG) has mirrored his regular season production (.7219). Dallas has been a good team in recent years at killing penalties (2nd in the NHL last year), so Zubov could conceivably help us there as well. And naturally he'd be a superb upgrade--provided he's healthy--as our PP QB. That and Lou seems to like anybody who was on the 2000 Dallas Stars.

As for the Stars, I'm not sure what kind of direction they're going to take. They could use a warm body like Preissing if they're dealing Zubov. The Kings are probably content enough to dump Preissing's remaining 2+ years now that they have Doughty and Quincey doing well and Hickey/Teubert potentially coming next year. We have an extra 3rd rounder from Minnesota as well.

[/pipe dream du jour]

As much as i'd like to see Zubov at the point with Rolston on our 1st PP unit, giving up a 1st round pick for a rental just doesn't seem like a Lou kinda move.

As much as i'd like to see Zubov at the point with Rolston on our 1st PP unit, giving up a 1st round pick for a rental just doesn't seem like a Lou kinda move.

And a 3rd. Doesn't seem all that much off base, but I just can't see Uncle Lou doing it.

As much as i'd like to see Zubov at the point with Rolston on our 1st PP unit, giving up a 1st round pick for a rental just doesn't seem like a Lou kinda move.

Yeah, it's certainly not ideal but Lou has paid decent prices for rentals in the past. Souray for Malakhov, technically Rolston for Lemieux was a rental, Willie Mitchell for Sean O'Donnell. Obviously hindsight is easy, but would you have rather given Souray or our 2000 first round pick. And would you have rather given up Mitchell or our 2001 first round pick?

When people say first round pick, we always remember Parise/Brodeur/Gomez but block out the memories of Damphousse/Hale/Foster etc. And if you believe Everson, Lou had an offer of Hale/Ahonen/1st (back when they were still valuable) for a likely rental in Rob Blake.

And my pipe dream involved a 2010 first as opposed to a 2009 pick, as this upcoming draft is supposedly above average. Seems like a decent risk if we want to put together a stacked team this year.

And a 3rd. Doesn't seem all that much off base, but I just can't see Uncle Lou doing it.

The 3rd rounder was a bit of a throwin to get Preissing. We got an extra 3rd rounder this year from Minnesota by simply sliding down one spot in the first round. We'd still have a third rounder, and if we really wanted another one we probably could slide down again.

On the flipside, it is nice to have as many picks as possible in case the chance to move up (a la Parise) presents itself.

your nuts who ever started this thread. he would be the best defensive D man on the devils. He plays like 28 mins a game. he is not happy in florida, u need to watch more than two games he plays in before making a claim like that

Any huge trade for JayBo, needs to have a contract extension. THere's no way around it. We don't have the assets to trade away and get nothing concerte in return. If it were to happen, who knows, the Devils D would be set for a number of years. They have to be careful if they sign him, to know what they are going to do with Zach Parise's and other's contract.

Yeah, it's certainly not ideal but Lou has paid decent prices for rentals in the past. Souray for Malakhov, technically Rolston for Lemieux was a rental, Willie Mitchell for Sean O'Donnell. Obviously hindsight is easy, but would you have rather given Souray or our 2000 first round pick. And would you have rather given up Mitchell or our 2001 first round pick?

When people say first round pick, we always remember Parise/Brodeur/Gomez but block out the memories of Damphousse/Hale/Foster etc. And if you believe Everson, Lou had an offer of Hale/Ahonen/1st (back when they were still valuable) for a likely rental in Rob Blake.

And my pipe dream involved a 2010 first as opposed to a 2009 pick, as this upcoming draft is supposedly above average. Seems like a decent risk if we want to put together a stacked team this year.



The 3rd rounder was a bit of a throwin to get Preissing. We got an extra 3rd rounder this year from Minnesota by simply sliding down one spot in the first round. We'd still have a third rounder, and if we really wanted another one we probably could slide down again.

On the flipside, it is nice to have as many picks as possible in case the chance to move up (a la Parise) presents itself.

I see what your saying, but the team is not getting any younger. I believe at the time Elias was in his early 20s, as well as Sykora, Niedermayer and Brodeur were still relatively young. With the team in its current state, I don't think they can afford to give up high picks for a while. Especially with Gionta leaving.