Best league in Europe?

KHL?
Elitserien?
SM-liiga?
Extraleague?
Swiss league?

Discuss.

In my opinion it's
KHL
Elitserien
SM-liiga
Swissleague/Extraleague

though KHL is more uneven than SEL is, so it depends on how you judge "best league". Their top teams would beat SEL's topteams 7/10 times, I'd think.

I think SEL is the most EVEN league in Europe, just watch now with Skellefteå leading it, and Rögle being way higher than people though and Frölunda being far down etc etc.

I might be wrong about this because I've only watched KHL a few times, but from what i've seen it's not an even league where anyone can come out on top...

though KHL is more uneven than SEL is, so it depends on how you judge "best league". Their top teams would beat SEL's topteams 7/10 times, I'd think.

I think SEL is the most EVEN league in Europe, just watch now with Skellefteе leading it, and Rцgle being way higher than people though and Frцlunda being far down etc etc.



is that a joke? SEL consists of 12 teams while KHL has got 24. If KHL had only 12 best teams, it would be as even as you can only imagine. But if you have 24 teams, you just cant get every team equal.

My rating is:

KHL

SM-Liiga
SEL
Extraliga
DEL
SwissLeague

the last three are pretty equal leagues, I cant really tell which one is better.

is that a joke? SEL consists of 12 teams while KHL has got 24. If KHL had only 12 best teams, it would be as even as you can only imagine. But if you have 24 teams, you just cant get every team equal.

My rating is:

KHL

SM-Liiga
SEL
Extraliga
DEL
SwissLeague

the last three are pretty equal leagues, I cant really tell which one is better.


Just to be honest, how many games of this leagues have you seen?

not so many, I am judjing mostly on european cup games so are many other people. And probably that is the best way to do so.

not so many, I am judjing mostly on european cup games so are many other people. And probably that is the best way to do so.

Not at all. I've seen games from all leagues ex DEL.

My rankings:

KHL/SEL

SM Liiga
NLA
Extraleague


The difference in skill between top and bottom teams in KHL is much bigger than in SEL. The difference in skill between 1st line and 3rd line on average KHL team is usually bigger aswell.

Al IMO of course.

You are just....:facepalm:, I am sorry, but that's true...Sweden teams lose CONSTANTLY in european cups at high level.

they lost almost all games in ECC, so far they have lost 3 of 4 games in CL...THEY CANT BE HIGHER than SM-Liiga or be at the same level with KHL.

Your estatic evaluation of the games counts for nothing. The results say everything.

ECC

HV71 - Dukla Trencin - 4:1
Avangard Omsk - HV71 - 9:0
HC Davos - Frölunda HC - 6:2
Frölunda HC - Kärpät - 0:3
Ak Bars Kazan - Färjestads BK - 6:4
Färjestads BK - HC Lugano - 0:3
Metallurg - MODO - 3:0
MODO - HC Slovan - 1:4

1 win - 7 losses

CL:

HV71 - SC Bern 6-2
Espoo - HV 71 3-2
Slavia - Linköpings HC 4-2
Linköpings HC - Lions 2-7

1 win - 3 losses

if you are not completely dumb, you will understand that SEL is highly overrated among european fans

Not at all. I've seen games from all leagues ex DEL.

My rankings:

KHL/SEL

SM Liiga
NLA
Extraleague


The difference in skill between top and bottom teams in KHL is much bigger than in SEL. The difference in skill between 1st line and 3rd line on average KHL team is usually bigger aswell.

Al IMO of course.

putting KHL and SEL in same position is just no less than a JOKE! SEL teams are failed everywhere during last 5-6 years! :shakehead

putting KHL and SEL in same position is just no less than a JOKE! SEL teams are failed everywhere during last 5-6 years! :shakehead

have KHL even existed for the past 5-6 years? :laugh::sarcasm:

And watch the SEL once or twice. It ain't THAT much of a difference. :p::nod:

I go to the SEL games all the time, and it's good hockey.

But before they straighten out their Euro record, I don't see how they can be a contender for the top spot.

have KHL even existed for the past 5-6 years? :laugh::sarcasm:

And watch the SEL once or twice. It ain't THAT much of a difference. :p::nod:

some posters are incredibly...strange I'd say..

have KHL even existed for the past 5-6 years? :laugh::sarcasm:

And watch the SEL once or twice. It ain't THAT much of a difference. :p::nod:

is it some kind a funfest or something?

The KHL, c'mon now. Russian players > Finnish, Swedish players, etc.

You are just...., I am sorry, but that's true...Sweden teams lose CONSTANTLY in european cups at high level.

they lost almost all games in ECC, so far they have lost 3 of 4 games in CL...THEY CANT BE HIGHER than SM-Liiga or be at the same level with KHL.

Your estatic evaluation of the games counts for nothing. The results say everything.

ECC was total crap. Don't even bring it to discussion.

Results in international hockey are sometimes somewhat tricky. CSKA lost to swedish 2nd division team in preseason tournament. That doesn't mean that Allsvenskan is better than KHL right? And ECC was basically like preseason tournament.

if you are not completely dumb, you will understand that SEL is highly overrated among european fans
Don't see it honestly. Many, many people say that SEL is clearly at least #2 in Europe.

As for SEL vs SM Liiga. SM Liiga's talent pool is basically only Finns that did not left for NHL, SEL or KHL.
SEL's talent pool is swedish players who didn't left for NHL or KHL plus some of the best european Finns, Czechs and Slovaks, and some quality NA players.

And don't try to tell me that there is more good players from Finland than from Sweden in Europe.

The KHL, c'mon now. Russian players > Finnish, Swedish players, etc.
It's some kind of Aryan race theory or what?:sarcasm:

KHL #1 without question...i mean they have ray emery

As for SEL vs SM Liiga. SM Liiga's talent pool is basically only Finns that did not left for NHL, SEL or KHL.
SEL's talent pool is swedish players who didn't left for NHL or KHL plus some of the best european Finns, Czechs and Slovaks, and some quality NA players.



Uh oh, you're pretty biased saying that SEL's got "some quality NA players" and Sm-liiga doesn't. Actually I don't even think SEL has better NA players than Sm-liiga.

North Americans in Sm-liiga:

Shawn Bates Hifk
Erik Rasmussen Ässät
Toporowski, Shayne SaiPa
Kariya, Steve HPK
Tenute, Joey Jokerit
Keller, Ryan Blues
Corso, Daniel Kärpät
Damon, Derek Ässät
Saviano, Steve Tappara
Bishai, Mike Jokerit
Eaves, Ben Blues
Clarke, Dale Blues
Milam, Troy Ilves
Forrest, Justin Kärpät
Ardelan, Mark Lukko
Cook, Charlie Tappara
Bellissimo, Vince KalPa
Platt, Geoff Ilves
Jacina, Greg Lukko
Hacker, Dan HIFK
Johnson, Jamie TPS
Collins, Chris Lukko
Hancock, Quinn Jokerit
Klubertanz, Kyle TPS
Brennan, Kip HIFK
Walsh, Tom HIFK
Nickerson, Matt Ilves
Harmer, Duane Tappara

(Bellissimo [31 goals in DEL last season] and Collins [22 goals in AHL the previous season] got boot in the past few days if I remember correctly)

SEL's got some pretty decent guys from NA too, not denying that just fail to see how's let say Dimitrakos, Moran (two of the best in scoring) Benoit trio any better than Bates, Platt and Ardelan?

And yeah you're right SEL has been stealing some pretty good (not the best though as you stated) finnish players from the Sm-liiga past few seasons, but thats actually changing now as we already saw coming to this season; there were more guys coming from SEL to Sm-liiga than going to the opposite direction. I think someone made a post about that in the finnish hockey board Jatkoaika.com. Can't recall the actual numbers but it was something like 20 to 10.

It can be partly explained due to the fact that every Sm-liiga team got the 600k€ extra telly broadcast money. That's a pretty big sum in the European leagues...

Edit. So I did some research (basically manually went through every team on eliteprospects :D) and found out that there were seven (7) finnish guys moving from Sm-liiga to SEL and 16 guys heading the opposite way. Pretty much all of them being that impact EHTourish calibre of player, unincluding few guys like Snelman (Sm-liiga->SEL) Jaakola (Sm-liiga->SEL), and some guys moving to Sm-lliga from SEL (Kauppila, Tarvainen, Vahalahti, Määttä)

Also some decent guys came from Allsvenskan; Lind, Ryhänen, Välivaara, Pettinen, Nieminen, Eloranta. Who'd all be impact players also in the SEL.

ECC was total crap. Don't even bring it to discussion.

Results in international hockey are sometimes somewhat tricky. CSKA lost to swedish 2nd division team in preseason tournament. That doesn't mean that Allsvenskan is better than KHL right? And ECC was basically like preseason tournament.

ECC = preseason tournament? Oh boy, oh boy...:shakehead but a nice excuse though. And dont post here anymore, you are laughable

KHL > SEL, that being said the KHL's quality of hockey is still poor compared to the NHL. The one thing tat's good about smaller ice surfaces is that the speed of the game is greater.

It isn't a big difference between KHL and SEL. Yes , ECC is a preseason tournament. Remember the most important thing for teams in SEL is winning SM. The teams even don't want to send their best players to play in the NATIONAL TEAM!!!!!!
So no, the results in ECC means NOTHING!

It isn't a big difference between KHL and SEL. Yes , ECC is a preseason tournament. Remember the most important thing for teams in SEL is winning SM. The teams even don't want to send their best players to play in the NATIONAL TEAM!!!!!!
So no, the results in ECC means NOTHING!

I dont give a damn what is the most important for SEL teams, this is just a sick excuse. If you suck in Europe, you suck overall. Period.

I dont give a damn what is the most important for SEL teams, this is just a sick excuse. If you suck in Europe, you suck overall. Period.

It's not. If the Russian teams sends their best players and the swedish don't to that, well it's not a thing to be very proud for. It's only means the Russians take that tournament serious and the Swedes don't. That doesn't prove that KHL is much better than SEL!

It's not. If the Russian teams sends their best players and the swedish don't to that, well it's not a thing to be very proud for. It's only means the Russians take that tournament serious and the Swedes don't. That doesn't prove that KHL is much better than SEL!

How 'bout this years Champions Hockey league? And please don't use the same excuse here. All teams are taking CHL seriously (mainly becose of the huge money involved) and now we finally have a great chance at valuing the leagues. KHL is - surprise surprise - proving it's the best league in Europe, after that it's a close call between SEL and Sm-liiga for the 2 spot, again a close one for 4-5 between the Extraliga (CZ) and NLA (a slight advantage for NLA though) 6 spot for DEL with a pretty wide margin before Slovakian Extraliga which is clearly the weakest league in this years CHL, I think everyone would agree.

How 'bout this years Champions Hockey league? And please don't use the same excuse here. All teams are taking CHL seriously (mainly becose of the huge money involved) and now we finally have a great chance at valuing the leagues. KHL is - surprise surprise - proving it's the best league in Europe, after that it's a close call between SEL and Sm-liiga for the 2 spot, again a close one for 4-5 between the Extraliga (CZ) and NLA (a slight advantage for NLA though) 6 spot for DEL with a pretty wide margin before Slovakian Extraliga which is clearly the weakest league in this years CHL, I think everyone would agree.

No, still the SEL teams prority the SEL nothing else! So no SEL not taking CHL serious! But I agree KHL IS the best leauge but not much better than SEL. It's a close race between KHL and SEL! And don't fool yourself: SEL CLEARLY IS THE SECOND BEST LEAUGE! SM-liiga isn't even't close!:laugh:

It's not. If the Russian teams sends their best players and the swedish don't to that, well it's not a thing to be very proud for. It's only means the Russians take that tournament serious and the Swedes don't. That doesn't prove that KHL is much better than SEL!

Gosh, how many times do I have to tell that it is YOUR problem that you dont play your best guys. While you lose in Europe, you can consider your league strong only in your mind.

No, still the SEL teams prority the SEL nothing else! So no SEL not taking CHL serious! But I agree KHL IS the best leauge but not much better than SEL. It's a close race between KHL and SEL! And don't fool yourself: SEL CLEARLY IS THE SECOND BEST LEAUGE! SM-liiga isn't even't close!:laugh:

Yeah, I think we can end this "discussion" here...I mean I'm not too into debating with an 16 year old whose best arguments are: "Liek no wai! u cant be serius! sm-liiga sux, i havnt seen ani gaems but they dont hav any swedish palyers so they must suk111!!!1"

Take your eyes out of your ass. HV acquired Beech just for the CHL, I think that's saying enough. The swedish teams take this tournament as seriously as they take season in SEL. 100%. And why wouldn't they, the winner gets 1 million doll..! (or was it euros?) well anyway the winner gets alot of money, enough for the KHL teams to take this tournament seriously.

Yeah, I think we can end this "discussion" here...I mean I'm not too into debating with an 16 year old whose best arguments are: "Liek no wai! u cant be serius! sm-liiga sux, i havnt seen ani gaems but they dont hav any swedish palyers so they must suk111!!!1"

Take your eyes out of your ass. HV acquired Beech just for the CHL, I think that's saying enough. The swedish teams take this tournament as seriously as they take season in SEL. 100%. And why wouldn't they, the winner gets 1 million doll..! (or was it euros?) well anyway the winner gets alot of money, enough for the KHL teams to take this tournament seriously.

a team can earn up to 1.7 mln euros. So, there is a reason to play hard.

Yeah, I think we can end this "discussion" here...I mean I'm not too into debating with an 16 year old whose best arguments are: "Liek no wai! u cant be serius! sm-liiga sux, i havnt seen ani gaems but they dont hav any swedish palyers so they must suk111!!!1"

Take your eyes out of your ass. HV acquired Beech just for the CHL, I think that's saying enough. The swedish teams take this tournament as seriously as they take season in SEL. 100%. And why wouldn't they, the winner gets 1 million doll..! (or was it euros?) well anyway the winner gets alot of money, enough for the KHL teams to take this tournament seriously.

Yes, the discussion stops here. It's not worth to discuss with 5-years old kid who think his leaugue is better than what is it! I see children from both Russia and Finland in here! Grow up! KHL is the best league with SEL close behind.
If this tournament is so big why the media in Sweden doesn't write about it? No it's SEL, SEL and SEEEEEEEEEEL!

Yes, the discussion stops here. It's not worth to discuss with 5-years old kid who think his leaugue is better than what is it! I see children from both Russia and Finland in here! Grow up! KHL is the best league with SEL close behind.
If this tournament is so big why the media in Sweden doesn't write about it? No it's SEL, SEL and SEEEEEEEEEEL!

I was actually going to respond to you again but then I read your other "production" on these boards mainly on the "cold war" thread and...well...do I really need to say more...

All I can say is it would be really cool if there would be a way to have some kinda registration where you would have to identify yourself and that you over 18 years old. That would really raise the level of the conversations...Well maybe some day in the future :innocent:

Yeah, we also need to have some kind of a script that would not allow more than 20 capital letters in a post and also no more than 3 same letters in a row :laugh:

I was actually going to respond to you again but then I read your other "production" on these boards mainly on the "cold war" thread and...well...do I really need to say more...

All I can say is it would be really cool if there would be a way to have some kinda registration where you would have to identify yourself and that you over 18 years old. That would really raise the level of the conversations...Well maybe some day in the future :innocent:


Well, I would love to know if you are 5-years old because that it is what you seems to be! You and the the russians are the ones who make the level in here very low!

Well, I would love to know if you are 5-years old because that it is what you seems to be! You and the the russians are the ones who make the level in here very low!

YOU NEEDS TO LEARN SOME EEEEEEENGLISH BEFOREEEEEEE POSTING HEREEEEE!!!








:sarcasm:

Well, I would love to know if you are 5-years old because that it is what you seems to be! You and the the russians are the ones who make the level in here very low!

Not saying my contributions to these boards are from the highest level especially in this particular thread, but I'm still pretty confident that I've brought more to this conversation than you (which is not alot though :laugh:)

Not saying my contributions to these boards are from the highest level especially in this particular thread, but I'm still pretty confident that I've brought more to this conversation than you (which is not alot though :laugh:)

Are you sure about that? Many people should agree with me about SEL being much better than SM-liiga for example!:laugh:

Is the SEL really as good as some people make it out to be?

The Swedish Elitserien seems to be the consensus number 3 league in the world after the NHL and KHL here on HF boards.

Some facts to consider:

-Rögle BK briefly lead the SEL and are currently sitting third in the standings. Rögle BK made it to the SEL this season and it's roster is full of no-name players with a few promising talents and Kenny Jönsson. Their number 1 goalie is Jere Myllyniemi, probably not even among the 100 best finnish goalies right now.

Now you tell me, if the SEL is such a good league how in the bloody hell can a second tier team step into the SEL and compete with the very best just like that?

-Janne Niskala shattered the all-time points record for defencemen two seasons ago, yet he was unable to break into the NHL on a poor defensive team like Tampa. If you shatter an all-time record, in a league as supposedly good as the SEL, shouldn't you at least make it to the NHL?

-Looking at the top 10 in scoring right now in the SEL you would find two Norwegians, Niko Dimitrakos and Brad Moran. No offence to Norwegians but two of them should not be among the league leaders in the world's third best league.

-The fact that a guy like Pavel Brendl can tear up said league also raises eyebrows.

-The SEL is also the softest of the top-leagues out there.

All in all it's seems to me that those who claim the SEL is clearly better than the AHL, SM-liiga etc., and even on par with the KHL, are still living in the lockout year when the SEL was indeed among the 3 best leagues in the world.

Now don't get me wrong, there is tons of talent in the SEL and the hockey that is played there is really good and organized but is it really the third best league in the world?

I honestly can't say but the facts I brought up earlier makes you wonder.

YOU NEEDS TO LEARN SOME EEEEEEENGLISH BEFOREEEEEEE POSTING HEREEEEE!!!










:sarcasm:


I know I'm bad at english but it isn't my first language. The most important thing for me is that people understand what I'm saying. The most people do that. Maybe you should go and learn some english if you don't understand what I wrote? Or you haven't any better to say about hockey? After all this is a hockey forum, not to talk about my bad english!

ECC = preseason tournament? Oh boy, oh boy...:shakehead but a nice excuse though. And dont post here anymore, you are laughable

You forbid me?:sarcasm:

And who is more laughabale a reasonable guy or a guy that lives in self-made world and makes opinions on his "feelings" knowing nothing about the subject?

Is the SEL really as good as some people make it out to be?

The Swedish Elitserien seems to be the consensus number 3 league in the world after the NHL and KHL here on HF boards.

Some facts to consider:

-Rögle BK briefly lead the SEL and are currently sitting third in the standings. Rögle BK made it to the SEL this season and it's roster is full of no-name players with a few promising talents and Kenny Jönsson. Their number 1 goalie is Jere Myllyniemi, probably not even among the 100 best finnish goalies right now.

Now you tell me, if the SEL is such a good league how in the bloody hell can a second tier team step into the SEL and compete with the very best just like that?

-Janne Niskala shattered the all-time points record for defencemen two seasons ago, yet he was unable to break into the NHL on a poor defensive team like Tampa. If you shatter an all-time record, in a league as supposedly good as the SEL, shouldn't you at least make it to the NHL?

-Looking at the top 10 in scoring right now in the SEL you would find two Norwegians, Niko Dimitrakos and Brad Moran. No offence to Norwegians but two of them should not be among the league leaders in the world's third best league.

-The fact that a guy like Pavel Brendl can tear up said league also raises eyebrows.

-The SEL is also the softest of the top-leagues out there.

All in all it's seems to me that those who claim the SEL is clearly better than the AHL, SM-liiga etc., and even on par with the KHL, are still living in the lockout year when the SEL was indeed among the 3 best leagues in the world.

Now don't get me wrong, there is tons of talent in the SEL and the hockey that is played there is really good and organized but is it really the third best league in the world?

I honestly can't say but the facts I brought up earlier makes you wonder.

1.Rogle as the leader of SEL. First of all, it's just the beginning of the season.
Aside from Kenny they have some decent players like Mathias Tjarnqvist.
Rogle is a surprise of the year so far.
2.Niskala would dominate any league in Europe IMO. He's on the same level as Magnus Johansson. And not all are made for NHL.
3.Moran and Dimitrakos are decent players. As for Norwegians, waht's the problem, amongst NHL best players there are an Austrian and Slovenian so what? Aasen is huge talent, and Skroede has great chemistry with him and Sundstrom.
4.Maybe it will surprise you but Brendl actually has 15 goals in 24 games in KHL right now. On a garbage team.
5.SEL is not the softest. SM Liiga is more physical but NLA or Extraleague or KHL are not more physical than SEL.

And who is more laughabale a reasonable guy or a guy that lives in self-made world and makes opinions on his "feelings" knowing nothing about the subject?

heck, that was an excellent description of Garl!

heck, that was an excellent description of Garl!

Wake up.

And try to watch some action from other leagues, if you want to discuss the subject.

Wake up.

And try to watch some action from other leagues, if you want to discuss the subject.

I've seen how good swedish teams are in european tournaments.

I've seen how good swedish teams are in european tournaments.

OMG are you still talking about these pre-season tournaments???? Pathetic! SEL teams don't care! :shakehead

no reason to leave this thread open. there's no need for flame wars like this. some need to grow up.

and get ligaen is best followed by erste bank liga. everyone knows that.