Bobby Ryan sent to Chops [Archive]

Jerky Leclerc

10-03-2008, 03:50 PM

I think Ryan Carter should get a nod to play with Morrisson and Selanne. Right now, I'm not too broken up because we can recall Bobby Ryan up at any time. IMO, he will be on the playoff roster by year's end. I like Ryan as kinda of the relief pitcher who comes in and play well for us rather than the starter who may or may not be good enough. Let the kid go down to Iowa and lead the team, work on his confidence.

Kunitz Getzlaf Perry
Carter Morrisson Selanne

kenabnrmal

10-03-2008, 04:11 PM

Our second line is laughable at best. :shakehead

The success of the second line isn't based upon Ryan succeeding. It's based upon Selanne maintaining form, and Morrison rediscovering his. Carlyle works with pairs, Selanne and Morrison is the second pair. The other wingers can be cycled through. The second group is no more laughable than it was this morning, I don't think anyways.

SonOfBraincramp

10-03-2008, 04:13 PM

As much as I would like to see Carter on the 2nd line, being a homer for him and just having got my Carter practice jersey signed by him last night :handclap:, I don't think he will play on the 2nd line. He is a Center. His strong point is face-off wins and defense. RC played him on the first line of the PK lately to win the face-offs. He is a PK, 4th line, or subs in for Sammy when he is rested. I more see March heading up to the 2nd line, or maybe even Ebbs to add to the speed. Or Kuni on the 2nd line and Ebbs on the 1st.

I would have said Miller, but he got sent down too...

We will see tonight, I am sure it will be an indicator.

SoB

snarktacular

10-03-2008, 04:15 PM

Meh. Pretty expected from me. I wasn't that impressed when I saw him, but other people were raving based on other days. Telling me that he's been inconsistent. Being scoreless in the last 4 games doesn't help. Time in the A should help out.

OK, time for some quick cap crunching. Pretend that the Fs are
?/Kunitz-Getz-Perry
?/Kunitz-Morrison-Selanne
Moen-Pahlsson-Nieds
May-Marchant-Suts
Parros

Meaning Larsen is sent down, as well as one of Carter or Ebbett (the other will be on line 1/2... Ebbett with twins or Carter with Selanne). That's a 22 man roster.

Well actually, that lineup seems to be cap compliant. Unless QP's salary is actually 1.922, not the 1.7467.

But let's pretend it's 1.922. When can we bring Ryan up? If we use Carter, we can call Ryan up on or after day 13 of the season. If we use Ebbett, it'll be day 11. Assuming my math is right.

Of course if his salary is actually 1.7467 like the Ducks told us, then some other numbers must be wrong because they should be cap compliant. Unless they intend to keep Larsen up and not on LTIR. Or they want to have more wiggle room than it would allow (it would be like 92k extra space or something). Or maybe QP really just didn't make the team.

hockeymistress

10-03-2008, 04:22 PM

According to OCR, he can be called up any time, is still eligible for Calder.

"A rookie winger who produced five goals and 10 points in 23 games with the Ducks last season, Ryan might not be in Iowa for long.

With nearly a week remaining before Thursday night’s regular-season opener against the San Jose Sharks, the Ducks could still fine-tune their roster. Even if Ryan does begin the season with the Chops, the Ducks could recall him at any time. Ryan remains a viable candidate for the Calder Trophy as NHL rookie of the year."

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/03/ducks-ryan-absorbs-painful-kick/

"Without Ryan, the second overall selection in the 2005 entry draft, the Ducks appear to be one forward short as far as a good fit on the top two lines. Veterans Todd Marchant and Brian Sutherby and youngsters Ryan Carter and Andrew Ebbett are among potential candidates."

iHATEbeauch23

10-03-2008, 04:27 PM

back to a one line team. unless Selanne dominates

Mooseduck

10-03-2008, 04:36 PM

What are: Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Teemu Selanne, JS Giguere, Ryan Getzlaf, Cory Perry, Brendan Morrison, Chris Kunitz, Sami Pahlsson, Rob Niedermayer, George Parros and others on our team going to do without Bobby Ryan for 10 or so games??

OMG, the sky is falling again. LOL
Just another drama queen parade down the Anaheim Ducks forum. :nod:

Lostiburones12

10-03-2008, 04:44 PM

Don't forget us Shark drama queens who picked him on our fantasy team. :(

snarktacular

10-03-2008, 04:44 PM

The success of the second line isn't based upon Ryan succeeding. It's based upon Selanne maintaining form, and Morrison rediscovering his. Carlyle works with pairs, Selanne and Morrison is the second pair. The other wingers can be cycled through. The second group is no more laughable than it was this morning, I don't think anyways.
Quoted to reemphasize. Ryan was never going to be the catalyst for that line. He was never going to be a catalyst anywhere. He was just going to ride shotgun with the twins or on the 2nd line. Marchant-Selanne was what that line was (and still is) gambling on.

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/03/ducks-ryan-absorbs-painful-kick/

"Without Ryan, the second overall selection in the 2005 entry draft, the Ducks appear to be one forward short as far as a good fit on the top two lines. Veterans Todd Marchant and Brian Sutherby and youngsters Ryan Carter and Andrew Ebbett are among potential candidates."
Oh yeah, Suts. He was my pick for the twins' LW last season. I wonder if he can do it this year?

Prospector

10-03-2008, 04:58 PM

damnn!! That ruins my pool!

snarktacular

10-03-2008, 05:14 PM

But let's pretend it's 1.922. When can we bring Ryan up? If we use Carter, we can call Ryan up on or after day 13 of the season. If we use Ebbett, it'll be day 11. Assuming my math is right.

Ack. Just realized that my math was wrong. I'm not going to calculate it again, but Ryan's cap hit doesn't decrease per day as much as I calculated, because only the base salary will decrease (not the bonuses). It'll take more than 2x longer (1.91667/.821667).

heusy_79

10-03-2008, 05:25 PM

Was Lindstrom already sent down or is he a possibility for a top6 spot?

Benny Lava

10-03-2008, 05:25 PM

Randall Graves*

10-03-2008, 06:07 PM

Well let me be the one to try and put a positive spin...

Ryan Carter here's your chance to prove yourself.

hockeymistress

10-03-2008, 06:11 PM

Anyone else think this might piss Bobby off enough to make him leave when his ELC is up? It really depends on how long he's down in Iowa. I happen to believe he won't be there very long, but you never know. This really does put a dent in our offense, though. I'm not sure Ebbett can handle top-6 duties right now, and I actually think Sutherby might be a bit of a hindrance on the top line. That leaves Marchant and Carter. I'd give Marchant the nod, and if he plays well enough, people might not see his contract as such an albatross anymore which could facilitate a trade and free up enough space to bring Bobby back up. That's pretty much a best case scenario, though.

Burke:

“Our goal is to find a way to get him back here on our team, if — and only if, and I stressed this to Bobby — he’s dominating at that (AHL) level. He did that last year in the playoffs. If he does that, we’ll try to find a way to bring him back.”

The second choice, out of respect to Ryan, Burke said, would be “to find him another organization.”

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/03/ducks-burke-weighs-in-on-ryan-decision/

ktulu98

10-03-2008, 06:23 PM

Burke:

“Our goal is to find a way to get him back here on our team, if — and only if, and I stressed this to Bobby — he’s dominating at that (AHL) level. He did that last year in the playoffs. If he does that, we’ll try to find a way to bring him back.”

The second choice, out of respect to Ryan, Burke said, would be “to find him another organization.”

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/03/ducks-burke-weighs-in-on-ryan-decision/

if I would be Ryan I would be pissed of right now..so only if if if and only if he will dominate AHL - so many if means what? 3p per game or what damn..
and trade him?:amazed: do something with marchant contract...
Im worried Ryan will not be on duck uniform next year - he will not sign a new contract with team and burke will trade him

hamertime*

10-03-2008, 07:11 PM

Free Bobby Ryan!!!!!!

mind_the_gap

10-03-2008, 07:45 PM

back to a one line team. unless Selanne dominates

Which is expected.

kenabnrmal

10-03-2008, 08:14 PM

if I would be Ryan I would be pissed of right now..so only if if if and only if he will dominate AHL - so many if means what? 3p per game or what damn..
and trade him?:amazed: do something with marchant contract...
Im worried Ryan will not be on duck uniform next year - he will not sign a new contract with team and burke will trade him

"Dominates the AHL" means playing to his potential, and not simply biding his time in the minors until he gets his "rightful" spot with the Ducks. Burke and Carlyle simply a) complimented him for doing everything right so far, b) introduced him to the harsh reality of pro-sports, that things don't always fall into place as they should, and c) that if he doesn't continue the sort of work ethic and performance he started displaying in the playoffs last season, he doesn't have a place here.

I like the kid, and I want him with the Ducks. But, he's proven NOTHING other than that he is capable of responding to challenges when he wants to. Well, here's another challenge. Its the same one Getzlaf and Perry faced.

The top line two lines will be fine.

nash6061

10-03-2008, 08:44 PM

They need Bobby Ryan, young god! come on burke!!!

snarktacular

10-03-2008, 09:10 PM

Anyone else think this might piss Bobby off enough to make him leave when his ELC is up? It really depends on how long he's down in Iowa.
If it does piss him off that much, then Burke didn't do a very good job scouting his character back when he said the interview was the best he's ever seen. The kid played well, and probably deserved a spot on the team. But he didn't play well or consistent enough to force a move. Witness the scoreless 4 games.

If he had truly dominated the games, Burke would have made room. Just look at the quotes. He was only "clearly in the hunt," he was "not a lock." Burke said only that "he did everything we asked him to do in the off-season," nothing about exceeding expectations. The worst part is how they talk about how they challenged him to get his fitness level to "where it should be." That means that his fitness level wasn't where it should be, and that he only got to par. It also talked only about the fitness, doesn't mention anything about playing better at the NHL level or anything. And nothing about initiative to improve, they had to poke and prod him. If this was a letter of recommendation, any hiring manager could read through the lines and realize that this isn't an A+ candidate.

Don't get me wrong, he did a good job. Burke is praising him. But it isn't "super-fantastic, must drop everything to work him in" good. Which our team needed if it was going to go through the trouble of clearing 1.8 million for him when we've already cut off as much as they could easily.

Basically Burke is challenging him yet again. Probably because he responded well the past 2 times he was challenged (told to do well in the AHL playoffs, and to work on the fitness in the summer). Burke wants to see him dominate the AHL, and force the Ducks to make room. Getzlaf and Perry did that in 05-06. They were sent down and 1.94 and 1.79 PPG. Ryan needs to do so well that they have to put him in the lineup because it's "best for the organization." Really, as a #2 overall pick, he really should have done this already, even if he was a known project when we took him.

selanneIShockey

10-04-2008, 01:11 AM

Somewhere in Orange County today Todd Marchant is doing the running man in his boxer shorts.

LOL, I pictured this and couldn't help but laugh.

Ryan will be back shortly I'm sure as he was very good (from what I saw) during the preseason. There is no reason to worry. And furthermore, for those saying our second line is crappy again, I wouldn't call a Selann-Morrison-(likely)Kunitz lineup crappy. Ryan was projected to play with Perry & Getzlaf, and from all the games I saw him play there, he did great. Even if Kunitz is now bumped up to the first line and we have Marchant play along with Morrison and Selanne on the second line, that's still a damn good 2nd line. Selanne can shoot like nobody's business (obviously), Morrison has great playmaking skills, and Marchant offers great speed to keep up with the other two. All three will be flying up and down the ice, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Dirk316

10-04-2008, 01:32 AM

:facepalm:
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

NewHabsEra

10-04-2008, 01:51 AM

damnn!! That ruins my pool!

I dont think he will stay in the minors long, so I think we will be ok, ive him in my pool too..

iLau

10-04-2008, 02:28 AM

My God....

Ducks

10-04-2008, 02:28 AM

This sucks. It had better be for less than 20 games because he is going to need time to build chemistry with getz and perry for a strong playoff performance.

Dirk316

10-04-2008, 02:57 AM

Oh yeah, Suts. He was my pick for the twins' LW last season. I wonder if he can do it this year?

Agreed ive been thinking the same. Has size,cycles well, has talent, tough(twins need protection), goes straight to the net

iLau

10-04-2008, 03:05 AM

On a completely unrelated note, I watched Getzlaf's older brother play his first CFL game today with the Saskatchewan Roughriders against Calgary and he had quite a game.

Elvstrand

10-04-2008, 06:40 AM

Was Lindstrom already sent down or is he a possibility for a top6 spot?

The Blackhawks claimed him as he had to go through waivers on his way down to the minors.

snarktacular

10-04-2008, 09:34 AM

Agreed ive been thinking the same. Has size,cycles well, has talent, tough(twins need protection), goes straight to the net
Suts? I wouldn't say he's tough (well he's game but he always loses fights or ends up falling as he hits) and he doesn't go straight to the net. I agree with the other stuff though. My thinking with Sutherby is that he'd essentially be Fedoruk again.

They tried Moen last night. Moen also makes some sense, he was another of my projected twin-mates last year. He does go to the net, just see his goals this preseason and in the Cup run. We also have plenty of checkers to fill in Moen's role (Marchant, Carter, Sutherby).

Hovercraft

10-04-2008, 10:55 AM

Why cant Burke just waive Marchant?

Pepper

10-04-2008, 11:01 AM

Why cant Burke just waive Marchant?

Sigh. Because waiving Marchant won't Ducks at all. Nobody is going to claim him.

If you meant why don't Ducks send Marchant to minors after waiving him, that's a budget issue.

karacter

10-04-2008, 01:58 PM

Suts? I wouldn't say he's tough (well he's game but he always loses fights or ends up falling as he hits) and he doesn't go straight to the net. I agree with the other stuff though. My thinking with Sutherby is that he'd essentially be Fedoruk again.

They tried Moen last night. Moen also makes some sense, he was another of my projected twin-mates last year. He does go to the net, just see his goals this preseason and in the Cup run. We also have plenty of checkers to fill in Moen's role (Marchant, Carter, Sutherby).

Moen seems like he would work. Also suts and maybe even stone hands might fit on a line with the twins.

Dirk316

10-04-2008, 03:38 PM

Every time May gets inserted with the twins they are at their best for some reason

TheJoeMan

10-04-2008, 03:42 PM

Every time May gets inserted with the twins they are at their best for some reason

I would say every time May is with the Twins HE is at his best. Getz and Perry are pretty damn good without him.

Duckstudd269

10-04-2008, 08:58 PM

Every time May gets inserted with the twins they are at their best for some reason

May is not a long term solution on that line. I don't want to even think about Brad May being on our top line. Maybe a few shifts a game there, but that's it. Personally I think it will either be Kunitz, Moen, or Carter there. Most likely would be Kunitz.
Kunitz-Getzlaf-Perry
Carter-Morrison-Selanne
Moen-Pahlsson-R.Niedermayer
4th line

snarktacular

10-04-2008, 09:31 PM

Every time May gets inserted with the twins they are at their best for some reason
May was put in when Penner was sucking, and they needed a boost in energy. He does great things there in terms of causing havoc and picking up the energy of the line, but they rarely scored with him on the line.

In fact, the 07 SC run. Getzlaf and Perry scored 32 points (17 + 15). May was on the ice for 2 of them (1 goal, but both Perry and Getzlaf pointed on it).

Randall Graves*

10-05-2008, 01:37 AM

I'd really like to see what Getzlaf and Perry could do if they had someone with compareable talent on their line for a change.

Duckstudd269

10-05-2008, 03:31 AM

Burke:

“Our goal is to find a way to get him back here on our team, if — and only if, and I stressed this to Bobby — he’s dominating at that (AHL) level. He did that last year in the playoffs. If he does that, we’ll try to find a way to bring him back.”

The second choice, out of respect to Ryan, Burke said, would be “to find him another organization.”

http://ducks.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/03/ducks-burke-weighs-in-on-ryan-decision/

this is ********. Honestly it makes me hate the O'Donnell trade even more. What was the point in trading O'Donnell if we're going to send Ryan down anyway. Burke should be trying to find a way to get Ryan up NOW, not later.

Ducks

10-05-2008, 03:43 AM

snarktacular

10-05-2008, 11:14 AM

this is ********. Honestly it makes me hate the O'Donnell trade even more. What was the point in trading O'Donnell if we're going to send Ryan down anyway. Burke should be trying to find a way to get Ryan up NOW, not later.
Because moving OD didn't clear enough space to keep Ryan on. Moving OD cleared enough space to keep Selanne (they were 1.2+ million over the cap). I think it was well worth losing him for nothing (maybe a 3rd, probably nothing) to keep Selanne.

Actually, it might have been possible to keep Ryan on after moving O'Donnell (depending on who's numbers and if they didn't mind sending guys on 1-ways to the minors), but it wouldn't have left hardly any cap space. Like less than a minimum salary's worth. So if someone got hurt, they wouldn't have been able to recall anyone.

snarktacular

10-05-2008, 11:34 AM

I'd really like to see what Getzlaf and Perry could do if they had someone with compareable talent on their line for a change.
That would be nice, but on the other hand, the cap means it's better that they NOT. Just think about it. The reason why we can afford to have both Pronger AND Niedermayer (and Giguere and other expensive vets) (6+ million) is because they can elevate the play of 1 million dollar players (OD and Beauchemin).

If you put a guy of comparable talent on Getzlaf's line (Selanne's the only one we have now, Ryan has the "talent" but is not polished enough to be of comparable effectiveness), then we have no 2nd line.

Here's something for people to ponder. Is there a chance Ryan was sent down mostly because he just wasn't good enough? Maybe they saw Carter/Ebbett/someone as just as good, or at least not much of a downgrade. Maybe they don't actually believe in his future. But they're just saying "it's only the cap" for some reason. Maybe Burke has too much pride to admit his first pick isn't living up to expectations. Maybe they thought it would be better for his psyche to say "he's good enough, but it's just a numbers game." Maybe it's a saving face kind of thing. Or any other reason you can think of. Anyone think this is remotely possible?

Here's another possibility. Maybe they're just sending him down to solicit trade offers for other guys? Sort of like how waiving Schneider expedited some slightly interested teams to negotiate more seriously. Waiving guys like May/Suts/Larsen/etc might not work, as now is mass waiver time and people might pass just because they get lost in the numbers. But by demoting Ryan, Burke is putting a spotlight on us and our financial situation, and our guys might be in the forefront? Or maybe he's even interested in trading Ryan and is flushing out offers for him? This is a little more unlikely though.

Finally, why do you guys bother engaging the more out there posters on the MB? Like a certain few Detroit/Vancouver/Colorado posters, among others. They're obviously set, and not changing their minds. They've obviously got an irrational hatred, to the point that they twist things or operate independent of facts. It's even quite possible they're just trolling to get a rise out of you. Why empower them?

Joe Canada

10-05-2008, 01:39 PM

Why empower them?

Because making them look like idiots in front of fans of the other 29 teams empowers us? :D

Seriously though, I'm pretty much done there. I just feel the facts need to be out there and re-stated on a semi-regular basis. This way they can be retrieved more easily and corroborated as evidence when the cycle inevitably repeats itself. ;)

Randall Graves*

10-05-2008, 03:20 PM

That would be nice, but on the other hand, the cap means it's better that they NOT. Just think about it. The reason why we can afford to have both Pronger AND Niedermayer (and Giguere and other expensive vets) (6+ million) is because they can elevate the play of 1 million dollar players (OD and Beauchemin).

If you put a guy of comparable talent on Getzlaf's line (Selanne's the only one we have now, Ryan has the "talent" but is not polished enough to be of comparable effectiveness), then we have no 2nd line.

Here's something for people to ponder. Is there a chance Ryan was sent down mostly because he just wasn't good enough?

No, him being sent down has nothing to do with his talent, performance or training camp. Zero. Burke told him that too btw.