Who Plays with Maddog & Pando?

Our first and second lines look set, so minus Gio and Langenbrunner from the equation. And if Zub is playing with Holik and Clarkson who's left?

I don't picture Rupp on the third line and I have a feeling Fedor doesn't make the team, so that leaves Vrana, Bergfors or Pelley.

Clarkson?

I'm afraid the "750 Line" is just as concrete as the 1st line. Ooofff.

i was just thinking about this. if i had to guess there will be a small group of players that are shuffled between lines, with this being the spot with the most shuffling occurs.

it seems that unless things change, it will be clarkson there while rupp skates with holik and zubrus. i can see sutter's thinking there, because it gives clarkson a chance to be a pest to the opposition's top line. however, at the same time, it means clarkson will probably be asked to play more minutes than a player of his skill level would on any other team, which i don't really like.

then again, taking zubrus off the holik line to skate with pando and maddog, while making the line more physical and offensively potent, really hinders the holik line, taking it from what i think will be the most feared 4th line in the league to just an average one, much to the detriment of the team.

fedorov and his negligible defensive abilities (to put it lightly) stand zero shot of playing on that line, and, if today's game was any indication, very little chance of making the team at all.

rupp, if he has any business being an NHLer, has that business being an enforcer on the 4th line, not a defensive forward that's gonna skate 15+ minutes a night.

if the sarge comparisons for vrana prove true, then he'd probably be a wise choice to skate there, so long as he's comfortable on the right side, but putting him there means one of clarkson or rupp doesn't dress, which means taking one potential fighter out of the lineup, something we're lacking to begin with.

i'm personally very high on bergfors, and think he would prove very successful on a line with elias. if he were to make the team, that would mean when he dresses that one of the top-6 forwards is displaced, with the obvious choice being langs being moved to skate with pando and madden, which i think would be the best incantation of that line, but only worth putting together if bergfors can hack it on one of the team's top scoring lines.

those are the only forwards worth mentioning at the beginning of the year, but depending on how things go guys like pelley and maybe even halischuk could be brought into the discussion. halischuk actually seems like a very complimentary fit for pando and madden, but the likelihood of him pushing someone else out of the lineup this year seem very slim.

Our first and second lines look set, so minus Gio and Langenbrunner from the equation. And if Zub is playing with Holik and Clarkson who's left?

I don't picture Rupp on the third line and I have a feeling Fedor doesn't make the team, so that leaves Vrana, Bergfors or Pelley.

why are you assuming that clarkson is on a like with holik and zubrus, i was udner the impression sutter wanted clarkson with madden and pando

I think Halischuk would be the best fit, but he isnt ready yet, so either Clarkson or Vrana.

I think this could've gone under the Line predictions thread, but I think it'll be like this:

Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Rupp-Holik-Zubrus

it looks like itll be clarkson. i just dont know how i feel about Clarkson going out against the opposing team's top line night in and night out

I think this could've gone under the Line predictions thread, but I think it'll be like this:

Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Rupp-Holik-Zubrus


I agree. By the end of the season, it could be Matt Halischuk with Zubrus moving to the left side of Holik and Clarkson.

Also, if Clarkson does not match up well with the left wing he is supposed to check, Sutter will move Zubrus onto the line with Pando and Mad Dog.

I'm not high on Clarkson playing on the Madden line.
He loses his balance too often.

why are you assuming that clarkson is on a like with holik and zubrus, i was udner the impression sutter wanted clarkson with madden and pando

As posted by Goose, he doesn't have the talent level for that line, especially his defense. He suited for the 4th in my opinion.

As posted by Goose, he doesn't have the talent level for that line, especially his defense. He suited for the 4th in my opinion.

i gotta echo this too. i mean i like clarkson for what its worth, but hes not irreplaceable by current roster players. id like to see him get time over pelley tho. on the 4th line that is.

As posted by Goose, he doesn't have the talent level for that line, especially his defense. He suited for the 4th in my opinion.

i agree but i thoiught sutter said thats the way it was going to be. maybe he is trying to motivate zubrus to play on that line

i agree but i thoiught sutter said thats the way it was going to be. maybe he is trying to motivate zubrus to play on that line

chico mentioned that zubrus wasnt too thrilled with the idea of being on the 4th line, but honestly....it could be the best thing for him on this team. hes learning about faceoffs, will prolly learn to play with a meaner streak and generally play with a chip on his shoulder like hes got something to prove. i really think that those 2(him and holik i mean) along with whoever else slots in will be a great 4th line with great versatility. i miss seeing 4 lines rolled to perfection. zubie may complain, but when the machine is working, and hes still getting some decent time....hell fall into place.

BTW, I know most people are focusing on our prospects when they watch, but Clarkson has sucked in the preseason so far. He hasn't done a damn thing right.

he seems to mainly be just sorta buzzing around looking for something to hit. heck even rupper has been seemingly trying to be creative AND start ****.

I would love to try Vrana on there.

You know what would be interesting, is if Bergfors played on the third line. He was, imo, the best defensively on his line with Vrana and Fedfed, and i think we could maybe even put him up to the 2nd line mid season, and put langenbrunner back down with madden. I for one would do it, but idk if Sutter, or anyone for that matter see Bergfors as a defensive threat. What do you guys think?

Clarkson played with Madden and Pandolfo last year for a good portion of the season. I remember him not playing too bad either. He seems to play well with Maddog.

And folks, lets face it: this will probably be a moot point 5 games into the season when Sutter shuffles the deck.

Clarkson played with Madden and Pandolfo last year for a good portion of the season. I remember him not playing too bad either. He seems to play well with Maddog.

And folks, lets face it: this will probably be a moot point 5 games into the season when Sutter shuffles the deck.





5 minutes*

Our first and second lines look set, so minus Gio and Langenbrunner from the equation. And if Zub is playing with Holik and Clarkson who's left?

I don't picture Rupp on the third line and I have a feeling Fedor doesn't make the team, so that leaves Vrana, Bergfors or Pelley.

I am so sick and tired of the infatuation with David Clarkson on this board. He is maybe the most overatted guy by fans i have ever seen. he still falls down every shift he has one offensive move that may not work once this season. at the very very best, he is a fourth line player......in fact i would like the devils to give leblond (sp) a harder look. the only reason clarkson is still around is because he has some grit, but i think he is awful.

9 goals and 22 points is not too shabby for a 4th liner that only played 12 minutes a game

I am so sick and tired of the infatuation with David Clarkson on this board. He is maybe the most overatted guy by fans i have ever seen. he still falls down every shift he has one offensive move that may not work once this season. at the very very best, he is a fourth line player......in fact i would like the devils to give leblond (sp) a harder look. the only reason clarkson is still around is because he has some grit, but i think he is awful.

What board have you been reading? Since the All-Star Break he's taken alot of flak from the members on here.

He was complimented in the first half last year - as he should've been. He played very well.

it looks like itll be clarkson. i just dont know how i feel about Clarkson going out against the opposing team's top line night in and night out

you should feel awful about it, i don't even think he should make this years team.

i hate to keep picking on the guy but he is on his ass several times per shift which means he is ineffective, i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt last season to improve his balance just as parise did after the first half of his rookie year, but from what i have seen so far is that he still has not learned how to keep his balance along the boards and for a grinder corner guy that is a huge negative to his game, i will go out on a limb and say he starts the seaosn in lowell.

9 goals and 22 points is not too shabby for a 4th liner that only played 12 minutes a game

he got some third line time as well. yes 9 goals is not too bad in today's game; i just don't see it with his game

to be fair, Pando is on his ass several times a shift and hes still effective haha

you should feel awful about it, i don't even think he should make this years team.

i hate to keep picking on the guy but he is on his ass several times per shift which means he is ineffective, i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt last season to improve his balance just as parise did after the first half of his rookie year, but from what i have seen so far is that he still has not learned how to keep his balance along the boards and for a grinder corner guy that is a huge negative to his game, i will go out on a limb and say he starts the seaosn in lowell.

Thats a large limb your out on and your alone. There is no way Clarkson starts in Lowell NONE!..... I am not a huge fan of the guy but his job is not to score but to get under people skin and that does not show up on a score sheet. Clarkson was part of the reason i was happy we brought in Holik i really think Holik can teach Clarkson to be a great pest. I think Holik can also teach Zajac to be a great Pwr Center and win faceoffs like he was. And Holik can also get Elias on track because thats what he used to do. But enough about Holik.

Clarkson is going to be on this team. He played all last year and did his job and drove teams insane. He was talking trash to the players on and off the ice hell even some coachs. His job is to bother people not score goals. Rupp isnt going to do that and Holik will but is getting old and its his turn to teach and for clarkson to learn by example!

Two things:

1) Clarkson has *two* moves.
2) Leblond has as much chance as making the team as I do, if you're trying to build a four line team, the best way to go about it is avoid using players who can only do one thing: punch.

Clarkson has to improve or he will play himself off the team, but he will not do that immediately and not until there is someone NHL-ready to replace him.

BTW, I know most people are focusing on our prospects when they watch, but Clarkson has sucked in the preseason so far. He hasn't done a damn thing right.
I don't know if I'd say he's been quite that awful, but he certainly hasn't impressed (though I did enjoy seeing him jawing with Renney). He needed to work on his skating/balance/staying on his skates over the summer and it doesn't look like he did that.

I would love to try Vrana on there.

You know what would be interesting, is if Bergfors played on the third line. He was, imo, the best defensively on his line with Vrana and Fedfed, and i think we could maybe even put him up to the 2nd line mid season, and put langenbrunner back down with madden. I for one would do it, but idk if Sutter, or anyone for that matter see Bergfors as a defensive threat. What do you guys think?
I wouldn't mind seeing either of them tried there. Gionta got his start playing wing with those two. I'd like to see Sutter try it out - even if it doesn't work out, it might motivate Clarkson.

Clarkson is going to be on this team. He played all last year and did his job and drove teams insane. He was talking trash to the players on and off the ice hell even some coachs. His job is to bother people not score goals. Rupp isnt going to do that and Holik will but is getting old and its his turn to teach and for clarkson to learn by example!

I agree, Clarkson starts with the team, but I still think he's better suited for the 4th line and Zub on the third. But how about giving Vrana a shot with Pando and Madden. He does play sound defense and can skate.

sure Zubrus should probably be playing say on a line with madden and pando, but like someone said i dont think that is best suited to his game. madden and pando are more finesse players i would say, whereas i believe zubrus plays the best when he has other bangers and puck control guys around him

again, just because its the 4th line on the depth chart doesnt mean theyll only play like 8 minutes a game necessarily

After watching all the young guys play I think Vrana fits Madden's line the best. He is defensive minded yet has good offensive instincts. He's not flashy but he knows how to defender.

1) Clarkson has *two* moves.That's better than most of the Devils forwards who have *no* moves.

Mike Modano.

Mike Modano.

In dynasty mode i have them playing with Mark Recchi. I think that would be a good fit :laugh:

In dynasty mode i have them playing with Mark Recchi. I think that would be a good fit :laugh:

haha nice. I only said Modano because for some reason when I read the thread title quickly I thought it said Jay Modano. :laugh:

sure Zubrus should probably be playing say on a line with madden and pando, but like someone said i dont think that is best suited to his game. madden and pando are more finesse players i would say, whereas i believe zubrus plays the best when he has other bangers and puck control guys around him

again, just because its the 4th line on the depth chart doesnt mean theyll only play like 8 minutes a game necessarily
No way. Pando is great in the corners, and Madden is relentless as a checker. That being said, I'd love to have somebody on this line who has speed and defensive abilities to go along with good passing skills. Langenbrunner would be perfect for these two and has played there in the past, but that opens up another spot on the second line. Too bad Bergfors hasn't lived up to the hype.

No way. Pando is great in the corners, and Madden is relentless as a checker. That being said, I'd love to have somebody on this line who has speed and defensive abilities to go along with good passing skills. Langenbrunner would be perfect for these two and has played there in the past, but that opens up another spot on the second line. Too bad Bergfors hasn't lived up to the hype.

Langer doesn't really have speed though. I think Madden is way faster than he is.

Langer doesn't really have speed though. I think Madden is way faster than he is.
He's as fast as Pando if not more. Whoever is going to be on this line needs to play gritty and contribute offensively since this line seems to get the bulk of playing time. Langs would be great in this capacity, but again, who then takes the 2nd-line RW position?

I think Zubes can be a great fit on the Mandolfo line too, but some have suggested he doens't fit in well with his two linemates.

Langer doesn't really have speed though. I think Madden is way faster than he is.

That's why I think Vrana should get a opportunity to play on the third line and let Clarkson and Rupp fight it out for the last spot on the fourth line.

I said this before. i think it got skipped over, i just wanted to know what everyone thought...

You know what would be interesting, is if Bergfors played on the third line. He was, imo, the best defensively on his line with Vrana and Fedfed, and i think we could maybe even put him up to the 2nd line mid season, and put langenbrunner back down with madden. I for one would do it, but idk if Sutter, or anyone for that matter see Bergfors as a defensive threat. What do you guys think?

I said this before. i think it got skipped over, i just wanted to know what everyone thought...
I'd be all for it IF he stepped up and lived up to his potential. If he isn't good enough to make the team though, and it doesn't look like he is (again), then I certainly wouldn't put him on our most important line.

I said this before. i think it got skipped over, i just wanted to know what everyone thought...

I'm not sure about that. You make a good point in saying that he was the most defensively responsible of the three, which he was, but I think that says less for FedFed and (more importantly) Vrana than it does more for Bergfors.

I still think Bergfors should be playing in the top six, and the way that group has been playing thus far, I don't think there's a spot for him. Sad face.

Clarkson, and you will all be loving it by the third game in.

Is there a choice? It has to be Clarkson!

The heart of the 3rd line is Pando-Madden. If I had a choice as a fan on who I would like to see on that line, I would choose either gionta (believe it or not) or Zubrus. This would add scoring to the line. Clarkson seems to be a lot of peoples shoe in, but his game is more suited for the 4th line RW in my opinion.

having Gionta play on that line would just be wasting his abilities

having Gionta play on that line would just be wasting his abilities

Now that he has found a home with Elias and Rolston i would be utterly shocked if he lined up next to Maddog and Pando.

having Gionta play on that line would just be wasting his abilities

Yeah, it was downright frustrating watching him on that line last year.

So looks like Bergfors might make the roster? What would you guys say his ceiling is?

So looks like Bergfors might make the roster? What would you guys say his ceiling is?

i wouldnt say he would make the team but i would say its between him vrana and rupp.

right now, i think bergfors potential is 70 pts. but consistent 50 pt player

So looks like Bergfors might make the roster? What would you guys say his ceiling is?

He really needs to impress over the remaining games. He needs to play himself into the lineup.

It would be nice if Bergfors did play himself into the lineup, so that we might be able to put Langenbrunner with Madden and Pandolfo.

It would be nice if Bergfors did play himself into the lineup, so that we might be able to put Langenbrunner with Madden and Pandolfo.

I think we are a deeper team with him in the lineup.

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Bergfors
Pandolfo-Madden-Langenbrunner
Zubrus-Holik-Clarkson

sounds better than...

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Rupp-Holik-Zubrus

...in my opinion.

I probably should wait until after tomorrow's game so I have more evidence to go on, but I really think it would be foolish of the team to stick Nicklas in Lowell and leave him there until someone in the top 6 gets injured. There are so many reasons to give him a shot there and play Jamie with Pando and Maddog and yet only one reason why not (experience). Certainly, he brings more speed and offensive upside than Langs, while moving Jamie down just strengthens the bottom 6 forwards. Additionally, it gives the Devils a chance to play their 1st round picks from three consecutive years on the same line and see if they can mesh. If they do, that is HUGE for the team moving forward. It's not often that three guys with 1st round skill that are within 3 years of each other in age get to play together all at their natural positions (I know Zach came in as a center, but he's clearly better suited on the left side now).

My main argument against the whole Bergfors isn't ready opinion that seems so commonly held is that the playoffs don't start tomorrow. If they did, then I wouldn't play him either, but they don't. We have a whole 6 or so months to determine who's going to play in the post-season, and how is Bergfors possibly going to convince anyone he's ready to play at that level if he's playing in Lowell? All that's missing from his individual game is confidence, and what better way to give him that confidence than to show the team's confidence in him by giving him a chance to play?

I probably should wait until after tomorrow's game so I have more evidence to go on, but I really think it would be foolish of the team to stick Nicklas in Lowell and leave him there until someone in the top 6 gets injured. There are so many reasons to give him a shot there and play Jamie with Pando and Maddog and yet only one reason why not (experience). Certainly, he brings more speed and offensive upside than Langs, while moving Jamie down just strengthens the bottom 6 forwards. Additionally, it gives the Devils a chance to play their 1st round picks from three consecutive years on the same line and see if they can mesh. If they do, that is HUGE for the team moving forward. It's not often that three guys with 1st round skill that are within 3 years of each other in age get to play together all at their natural positions (I know Zach came in as a center, but he's clearly better suited on the left side now).

My main argument against the whole Bergfors isn't ready opinion that seems so commonly held is that the playoffs don't start tomorrow. If they did, then I wouldn't play him either, but they don't. We have a whole 6 or so months to determine who's going to play in the post-season, and how is Bergfors possibly going to convince anyone he's ready to play at that level if he's playing in Lowell? All that's missing from his individual game is confidence, and what better way to give him that confidence than to show the team's confidence in him by giving him a chance to play?

I agree. The addition of Bergfors, in my opinion, will do nothing but strengthen this team.

I agree. The addition of Bergfors, in my opinion, will do nothing to strengthen this team.

:nod:

:nod:

Agreed. I'm unimpressed by him this offseason.

I probably should wait until after tomorrow's game so I have more evidence to go on, but I really think it would be foolish of the team to stick Nicklas in Lowell and leave him there until someone in the top 6 gets injured. There are so many reasons to give him a shot there and play Jamie with Pando and Maddog and yet only one reason why not (experience). Certainly, he brings more speed and offensive upside than Langs, while moving Jamie down just strengthens the bottom 6 forwards. Additionally, it gives the Devils a chance to play their 1st round picks from three consecutive years on the same line and see if they can mesh. If they do, that is HUGE for the team moving forward. It's not often that three guys with 1st round skill that are within 3 years of each other in age get to play together all at their natural positions (I know Zach came in as a center, but he's clearly better suited on the left side now).

My main argument against the whole Bergfors isn't ready opinion that seems so commonly held is that the playoffs don't start tomorrow. If they did, then I wouldn't play him either, but they don't. We have a whole 6 or so months to determine who's going to play in the post-season, and how is Bergfors possibly going to convince anyone he's ready to play at that level if he's playing in Lowell? All that's missing from his individual game is confidence, and what better way to give him that confidence than to show the team's confidence in him by giving him a chance to play?

agree, i mean barry ****ing tallackson got numerous chances...why not their allegedly most talented rookie.

I agree. The addition of Bergfors, in my opinion, will do nothing but strengthen this team.

agreed. if he impresses with his chance, he stays up and improves his game giving sutter more good options. if he starts to struggle, then hell go back down for a handful to keep playing until his next callup instead of watching from the stands. his impact isnt gonna be massive, but id like to see what he ads.

:nod:

I think we (including myself) had too high of expectations for him. That said, I think he's had some productive parts to his game this preseason and could be effective with the right NHL players.

Oh well, who knows what's gonna happen? I can't wait for the opening night roster to be set.

I think we are a deeper team with him in the lineup.

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Bergfors
Pandolfo-Madden-Langenbrunner
Zubrus-Holik-Clarkson

sounds better than...

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Rupp-Holik-Zubrus

...in my opinion.

Seem pretty obvious to me a line-up minus Mike Rupp, and plus a skills player, is a better choice in terms of offense. And allows the fourth line to roll with the other three lines at close to equal minutes (without the Rupper gasping for air mid-way through every shift... Eventually two or three strides behind the play...)

The above line-up makes us softer, however, as it lumps all our bangers on one line, and Bergfors isn't nearly as feisty or physical as Langs, so that line quite possibly becomes a punching bag. (Something he proved he couldn't handle the last time we tried him in the top 6 in real game action... lasting only a few shifts before being pummeled back into the AHL.)

But we need goal scoring in the worst way, as we simply cannot have another season of putting up goose eggs in front of Marty, and Bergfors on a line with Parise is a good enough place to start looking.

On another thread, prior to the creation of this one, I suggested Vrana be made to move to Maddog's off wing, so his development doesn't stall as Bergfors has to date. I think Vrana has had a better camp than Bergfors, and shows a lot more poise and polish to his game, and generally seems better suited for the rigors of the NHL (both physically and mentally...) And is coming off of a momentum building season, versus one of great disappointment, so they seem to be trending in opposite directions, career-wise.

Since sparkling as an 18 year old in his first camp for the Devils (where he had some genuinely jaw dropping moments), I think Bergfors has regressed as a player, as his confidence seems easily shaken at this point, his psyche fragile. I also think a variety of injuries, especially his shoulder from game one of last season, leave me with the impression that the high flying kid we saw at the outset has been replaced with someone who thinks too much, and with a body that hasn't nearly filled out enough to handle corner work in the NHL (making him fragile in that regard, as well.)

Maybe Bergfors could survive in a pure fire-wagon system, but those are few and far between these days, and my gut keeps telling me that he may be well on his way to being a total bust-o-la. (And hope to be proven wrong.)

Whereas, Vrana seems to have the signature Devils two-way mindset, and the skills to back it up, and may be a younger Sarge in the making. Which is convenient, as literally that exact spot has been made vacant in the roster.

And unlike Bergfors, this may be the only season we have left to find out what Vrana can do at the NHL level. And unlike Bergfors, who could really use a monster statistical season in the AHL, Vrana has a whole lot less to prove at that level.

So, to answer the question of the thread, and finish this point... My suggested lines would be:

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Vrana
Zubrus-Holik-Clarkson

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Vrana
Zubrus-Holik-Clarkson

You make some good points, and I like that lineup. Vrana likes to chirp at opponents, has enough offensive skill, and doesn't seem to be fragile. I think he'd be a nice complement to the Madden-Pandolfo combo in part because he is quick, can play defense well enough to suit with those two, and can add some flare. Plus, he can agitate the opponent's top players if he does like to talk; obviously not as much as Clarkson, but where he last in physical play he can make up for in finesse, I'm sure.

It's just a Pando - Madden - Young Brylin line though, and damn, I hated that line when it was together.

Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson. Not only was this our best line to start last season (Pando scoring 9 goals), but evidence has shown that the Mad Dog and Pando play a lot more offensively when they have a physical presence on their line.

It's just a Pando - Madden - Young Brylin line though, and damn, I hated that line when it was together.

Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson. Not only was this our best line to start last season (Pando scoring 9 goals), but evidence has shown that the Mad Dog and Pando play a lot more offensively when they have a physical presence on their line.

Your points are totally valid.

And there is some wishful thinking on my own part, as well, as I think Vrana was our best player in Lowell last season, and has had the best camp of all the "bubble" players this year and, with that logic, deserves a spot on our roster, having essentially won it with the quality and consistency of his play.

But with Rolston, Elias, Zajac, Madden, Holik, Fedorov, Zubrus, Rupp, Pelley AND Vrana all potential centers -- there aren't enough lines in New Jersey AND Lowell put together for all these guys to play center. Elias and Zubrus returning to wing is no big deal. And who cares about Rupp. Pelley is a two-way contract bound for Lowell anyway.

But we are still all full up at the center position. And at least the first three LW's are spoken for, as well. Leaving Vrana the choice of 3rd line RW or perhaps one of the winger spots on the 4th line or 13th forward (which I think has Mike Rupp written all over it, but who knows...)

So, since I think Vrana plays rings around Clarkson as a hockey player, he should take the spot. But that ignores some of the intangibles of which you speak.

And there is something to be said about Clarkie getting to annoy the hell out of top line players and cause his special brand of chaos, or Zubrus laying a pounding in the corners and crashing the net hard, if either get to round out the 3rd line with Maddog and Pando.

If that really can up the offensive numbers for Jay & the Dog, hopefully Sutter will make it so.

Early indication is that it is Clarkson's job to lose, anyway. But I have officially drunk the Vrana Kool Aid, and am contorting my consciousness to fit him into my imaginary roster, one way or another.

Here is another line-up with Vrana as a starter:

Elias-Rolston-Gionta
Parise-Zajac-Langenbrunner
Pandolfo-Madden-Clarkson
Vrana-Holik-Zubrus
(Rupp, FedFed)

Martin-Salvador
White-Mottau
Oduya-Salmela
(Greene)

It's just a Pando - Madden - Young Brylin line though, and damn, I hated that line when it was together.

Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson. Not only was this our best line to start last season (Pando scoring 9 goals), but evidence has shown that the Mad Dog and Pando play a lot more offensively when they have a physical presence on their line.

I have Vrana with Pando and Maddog, but have no problem switching him and Clarkson to start of the season and see how it works out. Actually, with two big bodies like Zub and Holik, Vrana might be better off.

While I agree that Vrana has proven more at the AHL level to earn a spot on the team, he hasn't been there any longer than Bergfors has, and I think there's something to be said for an 18-year-old European kid that jumped the pond and skipped juniors to play in a league where everyone had at least 2 years on him. You may think that his accomplishments as an 18-year-old have since been eroded by injuries and lackluster play, and to an extent maybe they have, but his potential and competitive spirit haven't changed, and I don't think it would be impossible for him to repeat his freshman year successes from the AHL again as a freshman in the NHL.

That said, I personally thought Bergfors showed more than Vrana in last Wednesday's game against the Rangers, but I know that opinion doesn't have its detractors. We'll see them both skating together again tonight (by the way, will that by streaming?).

I will say this, with regards to putting Vrana with Pando and Madden as opposed to Bergfors with Parise and Zajac, though it's somewhat undermined by my previous point about it only being the start of the season: whoever plays with Pando and Madden will be playing against the opposing team's best offensive line, and since the Elias-Rolston-Gionta line is most likely considered our most dangerous offensive line, the Parise-Zajac line will for the most part be up against players from the bottom half of the other team. While Vrana's style of play seems to fit nicely with those of Madden and Pandolfo, he would nevertheless be playing out of his natural position, which means he'd have to learn and acclimate to a new set of defensive zone responsibilities on the fly against the Crosbys and Ovechkins and Kovalchuks and Heatleys of the league. By slotting Bergfors to Zajac's right the Devils encumber none of those issues.

The problem with Vrana is that spot is the most logical place for him to play this season. I don't see him likewise shifting to wing to play with Holik and Zubrus or Clarkson, where his style of play will seem very out of place, and unless he's much better than I think he is I don't see him forcing the Devils to make room for him in the top-6 by trading Zajac. If I had to predict, at this juncture, that if there was one forward used as a piece of a trade to upgrade our defense it would probably be Vrana.

While I agree that Vrana has proven more at the AHL level to earn a spot on the team, he hasn't been there any longer than Bergfors has, and I think there's something to be said for an 18-year-old European kid that jumped the pond and skipped juniors to play in a league where everyone had at least 2 years on him. You may think that his accomplishments as an 18-year-old have since been eroded by injuries and lackluster play, and to an extent maybe they have, but his potential and competitive spirit haven't changed, and I don't think it would be impossible for him to repeat his freshman year successes from the AHL again as a freshman in the NHL.

That said, I personally thought Bergfors showed more than Vrana in last Wednesday's game against the Rangers, but I know that opinion doesn't have its detractors. We'll see them both skating together again tonight (by the way, will that by streaming?).

I will say this, with regards to putting Vrana with Pando and Madden as opposed to Bergfors with Parise and Zajac, though it's somewhat undermined by my previous point about it only being the start of the season: whoever plays with Pando and Madden will be playing against the opposing team's best offensive line, and since the Elias-Rolston-Gionta line is most likely considered our most dangerous offensive line, the Parise-Zajac line will for the most part be up against players from the bottom half of the other team. While Vrana's style of play seems to fit nicely with those of Madden and Pandolfo, he would nevertheless be playing out of his natural position, which means he'd have to learn and acclimate to a new set of defensive zone responsibilities on the fly against the Crosbys and Ovechkins and Kovalchuks and Heatleys of the league. By slotting Bergfors to Zajac's right the Devils encumber none of those issues.

The problem with Vrana is that spot is the most logical place for him to play this season. I don't see him likewise shifting to wing to play with Holik and Zubrus or Clarkson, where his style of play will seem very out of place, and unless he's much better than I think he is I don't see him forcing the Devils to make room for him in the top-6 by trading Zajac. If I had to predict, at this juncture, that if there was one forward used as a piece of a trade to upgrade our defense it would probably be Vrana.

Very deep thoughts there Goose. While I agree with you that Vrana would be playing out of his natural position, it wouldn't be the first time a Center played wing.

One thing Clarkson does do better is to irritate other team's players. That works out great when they are playing against opposing top lines as we take a skilled player out of the lineup in the penalty.

Clarkson's drawback is that he gives the puck away too much. Vrana can hold it better, especially with that experience at being a center.

Both of them have their strong points. I wouldn't mind seeing Federov in that spot also, as he is a talented player that can stick handle past top lines. The problem with Federov is that he sometimes hussles, and sometimes don't. His defensive play isn't as good as Vrana's.

In my opinion we're probably gonna see Clarkson in that spot and Vrana either being the 2nd reserve forward or not making the team. Pelley will probably be the first reserve forward.

Very deep thoughts there Goose. While I agree with you that Vrana would be playing out of his natural position, it wouldn't be the first time a Center played wing.

One thing Clarkson does do better is to irritate other team's players. That works out great when they are playing against opposing top lines as we take a skilled player out of the lineup in the penalty.

Clarkson's drawback is that he gives the puck away too much. Vrana can hold it better, especially with that experience at being a center.

Both of them have their strong points. I wouldn't mind seeing Federov in that spot also, as he is a talented player that can stick handle past top lines. The problem with Federov is that he sometimes hussles, and sometimes don't. His defensive play isn't as good as Vrana's.

In my opinion we're probably gonna see Clarkson in that spot and Vrana either being the 2nd reserve forward or not making the team. Pelley will probably be the first reserve forward.

Lou making the first year of Pelley's new contract a two-way is writing on the wall that he isn't going to make the opening day roster this season.

I'd see us carrying 8 defensemen before Pelley making the big squad.

But we shall see soon enough.