Bob McKenzie on Mathieu Schneider...

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=250423

Is this the day the Mathieu Schneider trade goes down?

Good question. The Anaheim Ducks feel as though there have been a few days in the past week where it was about to happen, only for it not to materialize.

There is no question Ducks' GM Brian Burke would like it to happen sooner rather than later - today is a possibility but there is nothing to say it can't drag on into next week - because the Ducks' can't sign Teemu Selanne to his contract until Schneider is dealt and salary cap room is freed up.

Schneider had asked for permission to stay home until the deal is consummated, but since it's dragged on longer than anyone would have liked, he's going to get back on the ice and prepare himself for the NHL season, wherever that may.

When Schneider is dealt, it's possible it could be rolled out to a larger deal. Some teams have inquired about forward Bobby Ryan's availability and the truth is Ryan, the second overall pick in the 04 draft behind Sidney Crosby, may be expendable on this Ducks' roster.

Right now, Ryan is penciled in to skate alongside Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry on the Ducks' No. 1 line with Brendan Morrison between Selanne (when he's signed) and Chris Kunitz on the second unit.

But the absence of the Performance Bonus Cushion this season means that Ryan is counting as a hard $1.9 million against the salary cap this season and he could get caught up in a financial numbers game in Anaheim...

...

I hope that Burke doesn't trade Bobby Ryan. In my opinion, this would be a self-killer.

Like I said in general, I'd be pretty shocked if Ryan gets dealt after the time they have spent with him and the fact that he is groomed to get his full time shot this season. I would 100% think that they would instead deal a 1st round pick before dealing Ryan in any trade.

Ryan is a young, inexpensive blue chip prospect who's already paid his dues in the minors - he has tremendous value. Sort of a ready-made franchise cornerstone.

The return would have to be enormous.

The return would have to be enormous.

So not Luka(s) Krijaicaijcak and Taylor Pyatt?

If he pans out to be as good as every one has hoped, it's worth it to keep him.

I can't see getting rid of a (potential) cornerstone in the franchise just to dump Schneider.

If he doesn't pan out this year then maybe package him up with someone else.

I am not a Ducks fan but I would be shocked if Ryan were moved.

You guys do realize since McKenzie suggested this you are now going to see Ryan in every trade proposal until November

I am not a Ducks fan but I would be shocked if Ryan were moved.

You guys do realize since McKenzie suggested this you are now going to see Ryan in every trade proposal until November

God help them all, seriously nothing sucks more than reading bad proposal after bad proposal.

I am not a Ducks fan but I would be shocked if Ryan were moved.

You guys do realize since McKenzie suggested this you are now going to see Ryan in every trade proposal until November

Maybe, but every other poster on HF says that Ryan sucks and isn't worth squat. Only their players are the best:sarcasm:

The Ducks have invested in Bobby Ryan too much to trade him at this point. Unless the Ducks are getting a star player in return, I don't see this happening.

The Ducks have invested in Bobby Ryan too much to trade him at this point. Unless the Ducks are getting a star player in return, I don't see this happening.

A star player? How much are you expecting your team will pay Selanne?

A star player? How much are you expecting your team will pay Selanne?

Good question. The Ducks would be better off keeping Ryan than trading him for a depth player which they have plenty.

Bobby Ryan and Schneider for

Bryan Little and Ken Klee

Losing Ryan stinks, but Little is darn good...you get rid of Schneider and you still have a conerstone blue-chip NHL-ready prospect in Little.

Moving Ryan could work if indeed Selanne is staying two more years. We don't know how well Ryan would do as LW anyhow.

Trade him and Schneider for a similar quality blue-chip prospect who is further away to a team that would use Ryan this season.

MB related question. How exactly does "Ryan may be packed with Schneider for a bigger package (ie return)" become "Ryan needs to be given away to get other teams to bite on Schneider for nothing?"

Next question. Assuming Anaheim has to pay dearly to move Schneider, why would they move Ryan and not a 1st or two? Especially when they have no other credible offensive prospects, much less ones ready to play on the team in a year or 2 when there will be a bunch of UFAs leaving?

Ryans not getting traded, teams are asking but I think Burke is happy with the progress BR has shown so far in camp. Too much time has been invested in Ryan to make a move unless it's a no brainer.

According to Strickland the Devils are the team from the East that are hot after Schneider.

If that is true then how about this??

To NJ:
Schneider
2009 1st round draft pick from Anaheim

To Anaheim:
Brookbank
2009 2rd round pick from Vancouver

To Vancouver:
Gionta

The Ducks move from a 1st round draft pick (likely to be in the 20's) to the Canucks 2nd round draft pick (likely to be in the 40's) and get rid of Schneider.

The Devils add a puck moving defencemen and a 1st round draft pick

The Canucks add a top 6 forward that can score 25-30 goals for a reasonable price.

Thoughts??

According to Strickland the Devils are the team from the East that are hot after Schneider.

If that is true then how about this??

To NJ:
Schneider
2009 1st round draft pick from Anaheim

To Anaheim:
Brookbank
2009 2rd round pick from Vancouver

To Vancouver:
Gionta

The Ducks move from a 1st round draft pick (likely to be in the 20's) to the Canucks 2nd round draft pick (likely to be in the 40's) and get rid of Schneider.

The Devils add a puck moving defencemen and a 1st round draft pick

The Canucks add a top 6 forward that can score 25-30 goals for a reasonable price.

Thoughts??

I'm for it, but are the Devils really willing to toss Gionta just to pick up Schneider? I don't follow the east much so I don't really know if they'd be up for that.

Ryan is a young, inexpensive blue chip prospect who's already paid his dues in the minors - he has tremendous value. Sort of a ready-made franchise cornerstone.

The return would have to be enormous.

I agree, but even if the return was enormous, it would likely come with an enormous contract also, which would defeat the purpose of dumping Schneider in the first place.

I sincerely hope Ryan isn't traded, otherwise all this time spent getting him ready and waiting for him was for nothing. And I'm still shocked that out of all the teams in the NHL, no one is willing to take Schneider without something to sweeten the deal. The guy isn't chopped liver and though he makes a lot, there are teams that not only can afford him, but need some more salary. What an odd situation...

I hope Burke tells people to "go fly a kite" similar to what he said to Lowe when they wanted Getzlaf in the deal for Pronger. Seriously, if Ryan get's traded because of all of this, I'm going to hate Niedermayer for this mess.

MB related question. How exactly does "Ryan may be packed with Schneider for a bigger package (ie return)" become "Ryan needs to be given away to get other teams to bite on Schneider for nothing?"

Next question. Assuming Anaheim has to pay dearly to move Schneider, why would they move Ryan and not a 1st or two? Especially when they have no other credible offensive prospects, much less ones ready to play on the team in a year or 2 when there will be a bunch of UFAs leaving?

Exactly. It makes no sense to move Ryan when the Ducks have picks to use as trade bait. I think McKenzie, who normally is quite good on trade matters, has this one wrong.

Well it depends on what you (or the GM) thinks of Ryan. I personally am not high on him, and suspect he won't be anything more than a 2nd liner. On the other hand, that's sadly still about as good as the Ducks have in prospects. Also, you have to figure his crazy high potential if he puts it together in his "trade value."

If the Ducks don't have confidence in him, it may be worth moving him if the league has an inflated sense of value. But they do seem to like him so it's highly unlikely he's moved.

Helene Elliot's article is saying the same thing, Ryan's contract could force a trade. There are no quotes from Burke, though - it seems like speculation just as with McKenzie.

But I don't like hearing this from two respected sources.

Hey, suppose we trade him for Radulov...?

Ryan's starting to look like a classic pump and dump...

Burke is in a very weak position. Whatever move he ends up making isn't going to be a good one.

Unless the Blues want Schnieder for nothing.

Unless the Blues want Schnieder for nothing.


I wouldn't count on the Blues for anything. They have lost over $50 million in the last 3 years. They are already above their in house cap at close to 52 million. Adding Schneider just makes their losses bigger this year.

Ryans not getting traded, teams are asking but I think Burke is happy with the progress BR has shown so far in camp. Too much time has been invested in Ryan to make a move unless it's a no brainer.

The amount of time invested really isn't a factor. It's sunk. The only question is what option leaves the Ducks in the best situation moving forward. I can't imagine a situation where dealing Ryan is the best case scenario, but it could be the case.

Helene Elliot's article is saying the same thing, Ryan's contract could force a trade. There are no quotes from Burke, though - it seems like speculation just as with McKenzie.

But I don't like hearing this from two respected sources.
Yeah it seems like pure speculation. There's not even indirect quotes from Burke. It kind of implies that Ryan is worried, but that's not backed up by anything either.

Here's the relevant section for ppl who don't get the Times.
His future with the Ducks may hinge on how they resolve their salary-cap squeeze, which intensifies each day that Burke can't trade Mathieu Schneider's $5.625-million cap hit.

It doesn't help the Ducks that bonuses normally carried over to the subsequent season's cap figure must be included in this season's numbers because there's no guarantee of a 2009-10 season while the NHL Players' Assn. retains an option to reopen the collective bargaining agreement.

Ryan's salary is $821,700 but bonuses make his cap hit $1,746,700. With Ryan on the team the Ducks are $3.05 million above the limit -- but that's without re-signing dynamic right wing Teemu Selanne, who's in camp on a tryout agreement that will expire when the season starts.

Burke likely will have to package Schneider with at least one other player and take a player back to create enough cap space for Selanne. Many teams were willing to take Ryan off his hands at this year's draft and many are interested now but Burke is reluctant to let him go at what could be a career-defining moment.

Burke might not have a choice, and that would be a shame.

"I'm expecting this is going to be his breakout year," Selanne said of Ryan. "You can see from his face that he's ready now. . . . He has unbelievable tools. It will be awesome."

But will he display them as a Duck?

Ryan hopes so. Called up last season after Andy McDonald was traded and again after Corey Perry was injured, he wants to be here on merit, not as an understudy.

"This year after building a relationship with the guys in the room I really feel like I'm part of something special here and it's nice to be thrown into the mix," he said. "And to start in this room, to be around the guys right from the get-go, is an added benefit."

Finishing with them would be even better.
But my thing is, yes the Ducks may have problems fitting Ryan into the big team because of budget reasons. But why trade him? He's on an ELC, and can just be sent down to Iowa.

OT, but what happened to Eric Stephens? I remember he did a NHL.com thing recently, but had assumed that that was just an extra freelance thing. I actually don't really like/respect Elliott that much. But all the recent articles have been by Elliott and some Dan Arritt guy. I had assumed he was just on vacation, but he probably should be back for camp.

This is so annoying. I don't want to see Schneider in camp. Just get rid of him already.

Well it depends on what you (or the GM) thinks of Ryan. I personally am not high on him, and suspect he won't be anything more than a 2nd liner.

I'm curious obobo. Why do you think Ryan will never be more than a 2nd liner? He's shown a lot of potential to be really great and all reports I've heard of him recently are that he's improved drastically. I've always thought that he's destined to be a first liner and a major offensive weapon for the ducks.

This is so annoying. I don't want to see Schneider in camp. Just get rid of him already.

I wish it were that simple. Burke keeps saying that teams want multiple-man deals so I'm sure there's a lot to consider. We'd all like to move Schneider, sign Selanne and be done with it but are you willing to throw away Ryan to move Schneids? I'm not.

The Ducks have 25 million dollars of cap space next year. There is no problems fitting Ryan in and I don't get all this financial problem that Helene Eliot and Bob MacKenzie are talking about. The only concern we have now is staying under the cap and some space for Teemu. If the Ducks want to drop Ryan's 1.9 mil, send him to Iowa until they can clear some space for him on the team.

I'm curious obobo. Why do you think Ryan will never be more than a 2nd liner? He's shown a lot of potential to be really great and all reports I've heard of him recently are that he's improved drastically. I've always thought that he's destined to be a first liner and a major offensive weapon for the ducks.
First I'd like to say that by no means do I say get rid of him. He's still our best prospect, mostly because of his huge potential. And recent signs have been positive.

Second, I'd like to say that I'm probably biased against him. I didn't like picking him in the first place, and wanted either Johnson or Kopitar with that pick.

Those disclaimers aside, I just haven't been impressed with what I've seen and heard. He's got a lot of flaws.

There's the physical, what with him having skating issues, balance issues, strength issues and having hardly improved on any of them until this last burst.

There's the hockey sense issues, where I haven't seen him often in the right spot without the puck (although there's the possibility, and even the suggestion from Carlyle that that's more his lack of speed and stamina to get where he needs to be rather than not knowing where he should be). Even when Getzlaf and Perry were weak and had a lot of holes, they had demonstrated a real knack for knowing where the puck will be and had shifts where they hemmed the team in, much like they do now.

There's the only mild improvement in his performance in juniors, and the underachievement of his junior team his last season. He's underachieved in the playoffs in juniors. Touched on earlier, but despite the initial reports of him having great character and work ethic (why Burke drafted him), he hasn't really shown that until this past summer. Why was his body fat 17% until this past year? Why hasn't his skating improved much until this last burst of workouts?

I really haven't seen many flashes from him that inspire me. He's shown flashes of slick hands, but not effectiveness in game situations.

Now he sure has some potential. His vision is great in terms of knowing who to pass to and seeing lanes. He's got great hands, magic hands like Perry. He's got a big frame (more wide than tall).

I just worry that the flaws (mainly the hockey sense and also the slow improvement) will linger, resulting in one of those 2nd line players that leave you wanting more.

The Ducks have 25 million dollars of cap space next year. There is no problems fitting Ryan in and I don't get all this financial problem that Helene Eliot and Bob MacKenzie are talking about. The only concern we have now is staying under the cap and some space for Teemu. If the Ducks want to drop Ryan's 1.9 mil, send him to Iowa until they can clear some space for him on the team.
Exactly. Also in Iowa, they pay him VERY little. His 2 way contract means it'll be less than 62.5 k. Those bonuses are not paid, neither is the rest of his 850k salary. Which may factor in with our budget. There's just no reason to be trading Ryan for cap reasons. They may trade him for hockey reasons, but as sweetener to take Schneider or for pure cap reasons does not make sense.
http://www.chrisdoelle.com/archives/200px-0330chewbacca.jpg

What's interesting is that today's Times article lists some numbers, and they're quite different from what's on the cap sites. It says his salary is 821.7 (which would be the average if you gave him max signing bonuses and had the bonus not slide). But it also says his total cap hit is only 1,746,700, compared to the other sites saying it's 1,921,667. Who do you trust more?

Buying out Marchant and Schneider would get us under the cap, right?
Wouldn't be enough for Selanne though.

Buying out Marchant and Schneider would get us under the cap, right?
Wouldn't be enough for Selanne though.

Buyout period is over.

The Ducks have 25 million dollars of cap space next year. There is no problems fitting Ryan in and I don't get all this financial problem that Helene Eliot and Bob MacKenzie are talking about. The only concern we have now is staying under the cap and some space for Teemu. If the Ducks want to drop Ryan's 1.9 mil, send him to Iowa until they can clear some space for him on the team.
No, and I don't think we'd have to. I'd give up a 1st round pick though.

First I'd like to say that by no means do I say get rid of him. He's still our best prospect, mostly because of his huge potential. And recent signs have been positive.

Second, I'd like to say that I'm probably biased against him. I didn't like picking him in the first place, and wanted either Johnson or Kopitar with that pick.

Those disclaimers aside, I just haven't been impressed with what I've seen and heard. He's got a lot of flaws.

There's the physical, what with him having skating issues, balance issues, strength issues and having hardly improved on any of them until this last burst.

There's the hockey sense issues, where I haven't seen him often in the right spot without the puck (although there's the possibility, and even the suggestion from Carlyle that that's more his lack of speed and stamina to get where he needs to be rather than not knowing where he should be). Even when Getzlaf and Perry were weak and had a lot of holes, they had demonstrated a real knack for knowing where the puck will be and had shifts where they hemmed the team in, much like they do now.

There's the only mild improvement in his performance in juniors, and the underachievement of his junior team his last season. He's underachieved in the playoffs in juniors. Touched on earlier, but despite the initial reports of him having great character and work ethic (why Burke drafted him), he hasn't really shown that until this past summer. Why was his body fat 17% until this past year? Why hasn't his skating improved much until this last burst of workouts?

I really haven't seen many flashes from him that inspire me. He's shown flashes of slick hands, but not effectiveness in game situations.

Now he sure has some potential. His vision is great in terms of knowing who to pass to and seeing lanes. He's got great hands, magic hands like Perry. He's got a big frame (more wide than tall).

I just worry that the flaws (mainly the hockey sense and also the slow improvement) will linger, resulting in one of those 2nd line players that leave you wanting more.

Fair enough and I see your points on all of those issues. I just always felt like he had great hands too and that seemed good enough to me. Hopefully he continues to improve throughout the next few years and lives up to his "picked behind Crosby" tag.

Obobo is describing kind of a bigger, slower version of Matt Cullen. All hands and no brains.

I dunno. I think we've been spoiled a bit by Getzlaf and Perry. For one thing, they had each other as 1st round buddies, they shared the mental burden, they were brought up and sent down in tandem, that makes it easier no matter what you're doing. For another, they got extra years of development thanks to the lockout, without the pressure of being needed by the big club right away. And they had an incredibly steep learning curve even so. Most kids don't just show up and look like they belong like the Twins did, no matter where they were drafted.

Carlyle's comments about Ryan knowing where to be, anticipating and just belonging are very encouraging to me. I respect your analytical skills obobo, and I haven't seen anything so far this season myself in person, but you're the only one saying anything negative. That includes the hoards of yes-men at All Ducks and also the likes of Carlyle, Selanne and Burke.

Well there have been positive signs. He is a much better skater. He does seem to be trying harder.

He probably was much better in the other days (when all the comments were based), just the day that I saw he was only marginally better in terms of being knocked off the puck/off balance.

Don't get me wrong. He was still slightly better. He at least kept the puck in his area, just not under complete control. He wasn't losing the puck outright nearly as much. And other than the 1 shift where he was terrible, he wasn't really that bad, just sort-of-bad-for-a-true-power-forward-type. I was mostly pointing out that he still needs work. My "2nd liner" statement was based more from what I saw before, with the "parachute effect" preventing me from changing my stance a whole lot because of a few days of camp.

And besides, you should trust real guys like Carlyle, Selanne, and Burke more than me, some schmuck sitting on my ass. And like I said, I'm coming in with a slight bias against him so I probably have a more critical eye to any small things he does wrong.

Do you guys think all these injuries to teams defensmen will help this Schneider scenario? Carle, Johnson, Gonchar? All look like they could be out for a long time.

Do you guys think all these injuries to teams defensmen will help this Schneider scenario? Carle, Johnson, Gonchar? All look like they could be out for a long time.
Doubtful. Carle isn't a big contributor and the Habs don't have cap space after Lang. St. Louis is near their budget, and I don't think they were serious about contending this year anyways. Gonchar is a possibility, but it depends on how long he'll be out. A dislocated shoulder shouldn't be that long though.

Not that I wish injuries on other teams or anything, but what we would need is an injury to a big offensive Dman on a contending team. Preferably Eastern conference. Think Markov on the Habs, Timonen on Phil, Redden in NY, McCabe, Gonchar for longer. Actually, that's pretty much the entire list.

I would rather have Ryan + Schneider than Selanne. Obviously Selanne is probably the better option, but we all want to see Ryan on this team for a long time.

He had a good streak when he got recalled and played with Bert for 7 games or so. Like others have said, he passes well...

Playing and being on the team with Getz and Perry probably has been a positive influence on him.

Bottom line, Ryan could be a really good core part of this team. People can argue either way, but in my opinion, its worth keeping him and giving him that chance.

He's proven he wants to be a big part of the team.

Last year he was on pace for what, like 15-20 goals and 15-20 assists? That's pretty standard for 'first year' prospects, and he only had 23 games to 'prove' himself, after being sent down, up, and down repeatedly.

I'm in the camp that thinks, you throw him with Getz and Perry, and we have a top line for potentially the next 10 years. I want that dream to come true :)

Doubtful. Carle isn't a big contributor and the Habs don't have cap space after Lang. St. Louis is near their budget, and I don't think they were serious about contending this year anyways. Gonchar is a possibility, but it depends on how long he'll be out. A dislocated shoulder shouldn't be that long though.

Not that I wish injuries on other teams or anything, but what we would need is an injury to a big offensive Dman on a contending team. Preferably Eastern conference. Think Markov on the Habs, Timonen on Phil, Redden in NY, McCabe, Gonchar for longer. Actually, that's pretty much the entire list.
Hey, Lidstrom took a puck to the eye :D

So...

I guess Schneider will be in camp tomorrow? That's tooo cool.

So...

I guess Schneider will be in camp tomorrow? That's tooo cool.

Bet he wears a visor ;)

Bet he wears a visor ;)

Or at least something to keep his foot from getting broken.

So...

I guess Schneider will be in camp tomorrow? That's tooo cool.
Today's Reg says still no.
Ducks general manager Brian Burke spoke to Mathieu Schneider by telephone Wednesday, and the two agreed that the veteran defenseman will remain away from camp for at least “a couple of more days,” the club said.

Burke has made no secret of the fact he is trying to trade Schneider – and his $5.625 million salary-cap hit – as a means of getting the Ducks beneath the NHL’s $56.7 million salary ceiling. The team is currently a shade more than $3 million above the limit.

While Burke continues to try to resolve the situation, Schneider’s agent, Pat Morris, had suggested earlier this week that Schneider might come to camp Thursday. Schneider, who last week cleared waivers and received permission from the Ducks not to report to camp, is apparently willing to wait longer for a trade.

Just trade him and get the damn thing over with already.

I would rather have Ryan + Schneider than Selanne. Obviously Selanne is probably the better option, but we all want to see Ryan on this team for a long time.


You do understand that isn't an option anymore, right?

Is it even worth considering the option NOT to bring back Teemu?

Don't get me wrong; I love the guy. But if it means getting rid of a player like Ryan, who has been groomed to join the collection of great young talent on the team, I have to wonder if signing someone who has VERY recently contemplated retirement instead is worth the cost. Teemu could obviously help us this year, but the risk/reward question has to be asked.

This reminds me a bit of the Kotchman/Teixera situation across the street. Do you trade a star-in-the-making for a superstar who may be with you for just one season?

Is it even worth considering the option NOT to bring back Teemu?

Don't get me wrong; I love the guy. But if it means getting rid of a player like Ryan, who has been groomed to join the collection of great young talent on the team, I have to wonder if signing someone who has VERY recently contemplated retirement instead is worth the cost. Teemu could obviously help us this year, but the risk/reward question has to be asked.

This reminds me a bit of the Kotchman/Teixera situation across the street. Do you trade a star-in-the-making for a superstar who may be with you for just one season?

The Ducks are heading into a huge rebuild, if by some miracle not next year, definitely the year after that. They still have a good shot to win this year, but you have to have Selanne in the lineup for that to happen. If not, we're stuck with a single scoring line and a first or second round exit in the playoffs.

Besides which, we're still over the cap without Teemu...

The Ducks are heading into a huge rebuild, if by some miracle not next year, definitely the year after that. They still have a good shot to win this year, but you have to have Selanne in the lineup for that to happen. If not, we're stuck with a single scoring line and a first or second round exit in the playoffs.

Besides which, we're still over the cap without Teemu...

Very well put. I have to agree that Ryan has a great future with us, but our chance at another cup is pretty much now or not-for-a-while. Without Teemu our chances go down significantly for this season. Without Ryan, our chances for the future look slightly less hopeful. Hopefully Burke can work some magic and keep Ryan while signing Teemu.

**** you McKenzie, go suck a fat one you dumbass.

Sry Bob, but Ryan is still a duck. It would be better if you search an other young NHL-Talent for your rumours. Maybe Patrick O'Sullivan or so.

Sry Bob, but Ryan is still a duck. It would be better if you search an other young NHL-Talent for your rumours. Maybe Patrick O'Sullivan or so.

Don't kill the messenger now. McKenzie was only reporting what was being tossed around the circuit.

Sry Bob, but Ryan is still a duck. It would be better if you search an other young NHL-Talent for your rumours. Maybe Patrick O'Sullivan or so.

He said trading Ryan was a possibility, not a given, and from what Burke said it sounded like trading Ryan was very possible.