http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/schneider_on_waivers/

Bryzgalov the sequel?

How could you treat players like this. :shakehead

I'll be the first to admit, I'm shocked he wasn't able to get a draft pick or mid-level prospect for him. What exactly is the scenario now? Do we have to cross our fingers for him to get picked up? Do they have to move even more salary now to fit Teemu?

I'm not looking forward to the lemmings trotting in here with their "lolz, world's best GM!!!!!!! hahahhahahahahah Burke suxors...." posts.

I'll be the first to admit, I'm shocked he wasn't able to get a draft pick or mid-level prospect for him. What exactly is the scenario now? Do we have to cross our fingers for him to get picked up? Do they have to move even more salary now to fit Teemu?

I'm not looking forward to the lemmings trotting in here with their "lolz, world's best GM!!!!!!! hahahhahahahahah Burke suxors...." posts.

Yes. Schneider is over 35 and healthy enough to play so even if he clears waivers and is assigned to the AHL the Ducks still have Schneider on his cap hit.

He will be claimed, this reeks of a Bryzgalov like deal....Burke tells Schneider he doesnt want to put him in an even worse position and waives him instead of waiting for a deal and kind of screwing Schneider and his family over when they are scrambling to get to whatever city he is going to end up in.

how is everyone calling Burke the best GM in the NHL!!!???

I am curious to hear the sound bite from Burke on this one. I would be surprised if LA didn't pick Schneider up considering they desperately need a top defensemen to guide their young D-man.

how is everyone calling Burke the best GM in the NHL!!!???

Numero uno, congrats boss.

I am curious to hear the sound bite from Burke on this one. I would be surprised if LA didn't pick Schneider up considering they desperately need a top defensemen to guide their young D-man.

I could see La taking him. They should be first or second on waiver list. I hope that he slips past them and he falls down to the islanders.

:amazed:what a shocking move

:amazed:what a shocking move

We have known that the Ducks were going to move Schneider since Scotty said he was coming back for the final year. How can it be shocking? Surprising maybe because no one expected Burke to waive him. Obviously, Burke needs to commit to Teemu and pressed for time, this was the best option to move his salary before camp.

Well great. I can't believe there was no interest in Schneider at all this summer. Did Burke hold on to his cards too long? So is it true that now the Ducks get nothing for Schneider, except for paying half of his salary if he gets picked up, and still don't have enough cap space to sign Teemu? He will probably get picked up by the Kings. Or if he passes through waivers, the Ducks are still on the hook for his entire salary? So still no cap relief to sign Teemu? Does that mean another of the Ducks younger players are going to be traded? If all of this happens...Great move Burke. I can't defend him on this.

Burke is very good at targeting players he likes and swinging a deal. He's very good at trading for Dmen. Hes not very good at getting value for players he no longer wants/needs.

I believe other teams were probably still waiting on Sundin and Burke didn't want to wait anymore. He has to sign Teemu before camp.

Well great. I can't believe there was no interest in Schneider. Did Burke hold on to his cards too long? So is it true that now the Ducks get nothing for Schneider, except for paying half of his salary, and still don't have enough cap space to sign Teemu? He will probably get picked up by the Kings. If all of this happens...Great move Burke. I can't defend him on this.

They would only have to pay half his salary if he was claimed on re-entry waivers....if someone claims him now Anaheim wont have to pay him anything.

They would only have to pay half his salary if he was claimed on re-entry waivers....if someone claims him now Anaheim wont have to pay him anything.

Yes, thanks I already corrected my post.

I believe other teams were probably still waiting on Sundin and Burke didn't want to wait anymore. He has to sign Teemu before camp.

He can sign him, but won't the Ducks be over the cap? So are we going to have to go through another McDonald-Weight situation? This sucks and Burke's asset management sucks too.

I believe other teams were probably still waiting on Sundin and Burke didn't want to wait anymore. He has to sign Teemu before camp.

He doesnt have to sign Selanne for another month.

Schneider will be claimed. The other GM's were playing hard ball because they knew it would come to this. If Lombardi doesn't take Schneider is a blithering effing idiot. He needs a verteran d-man of Schneider's caliber bad. This way he doesn't have to give his chief rival any assets.

Burke can't wait any longer and everybody knows it. Everyone knows Teemu is coming back and they all know Burke is over the cap. I mean he can't force teams to make a deal, it's not like he didn't try. But that doesn't really matter. The main thing was to remove Mathieu's contract and I believe he'll succeed in doing so.

He doesnt have to sign Selanne for another month.

We need Teemu for at least most of camp. He can get in shape on his own but he needs to get familiar with his teammates and get his timing back. It's very important to sign him this week.

We need Teemu for at least most of camp. He can get in shape on his own but he needs to get familiar with his teammates and get his timing back. It's very important to sign him this week.

Selanne can get through camp as an invitee can he not? What is the exact deadline he needs to be signed?

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad one?

Schneider will be claimed. The other GM's were playing hard ball because they knew it would come to this. If Lombardi doesn't take Schneider is a blithering effing idiot. He needs a verteran d-man of Schneider's caliber bad. This way he doesn't have to give his chief rival any assets.




True, but the sticking point here would be if any other team puts in a claim along with LA, LA would not be allowed to deal him at the deadline. Which they most cetainly would want to do. They would have to offer him up to those other teams that put in claims (something along those lines).

This would be the only reason LA wouldn't claim him and maybe one of the reasons why Burke waived him.

People should take note that the link also states (that the source states) that he is being waived with the expectation that someone will pick him up.

Probably Lombardi, who I'm sure was using the fact that he's 1st/2nd in waivers to justify not offering anything a la Don Maloney.

Basically when Montreal bowed out by getting Lang, we lost most of our leverage to get anything from the Kings. Other teams might still be waiting on Mats, so also blame him. And Burke for not moving Schneider for something, anything earlier. Dan Woods seemed to indicate that most, but not all teams who were offering only a low-round pick for Schneider were waiting on Sundin, in hindsight (and what I thought at the time), Burke should have just taken a low-round pick and not played chicken.

But you know what? Waiving Bryz and Schneider isn't really that big of a deal in the bigger picture. Sure it would be nice to get something for them. But also consider that we had signed Hiller and Schneider as FAs, so they were essentially free assets anyways.
how is everyone calling Burke the best GM in the NHL!!!???
Wow, that was a totally unexpected response.
Burke is very good at targeting players he likes and swinging a deal. He's very good at trading for Dmen. Hes not very good at getting value for players he no longer wants/needs.
Pretty much my feelings on Burke.

Follow up question: Is Burke averse to low draft picks, or are other teams really that unwilling to give up low draft picks?

I mean I know there's probably only like a 1% chance you succeed wildly, only to get a bottom line/pairing guy, but why were neither Schneider nor Bryzgalov moved for even like a 7th?

Also, you'd think LA would actually PREFER to trade for Schneider, even if it's just for "future considerations" than to pick him up by waivers. That way they can trade him at the deadline.

Toronto, this is a prevue of what you'll be getting next season. Brian Burke, the Asset Management king!
Next year he's gone and the only dman signed is Pronger.

The cupboards are bare!

Toronto, this is a prevue of what you'll be getting next season. Brian Burke, the Asset Management king!
Next year he's gone and the only dman signed is Pronger.

The cupboards are bare!

Dont tap the glass kids, he is startled easily!

Basically, Burke got an asset as a backup plan last season, and now that his stars are returning (Nieds/Teemu), he dropped that backup plan.

Perhaps, he could have got something but we'll probably never know. Did he lose anything? No, he got Schneider for free and now he's gained two superstars for this season.

Toronto, this is a prevue of what you'll be getting next season. Brian Burke, the Asset Management king!
Next year he's gone and the only dman signed is Pronger.

The cupboards are bare!

Bare?

- Franchise goalie (Giguere)
- Great young backup (Hiller)
- Franchise center (Getzlaf)
- First line LW and RW (Kunitz, Perry)
- All-star defender (Pronger)
- Solid prospects (Ryan, Mitera)
- Lots of cap space

Yeah that's a horrible cupboard for any GM to inherit. If Burke truly is gone, his replacement should be overjoyed to enter with that core and cap space to get the players he wants and make the team according to his style.

Also, you'd think LA would actually PREFER to trade for Schneider, even if it's just for "future considerations" than to pick him up by waivers. That way they can trade him at the deadline.

And do you think Burke - as manager of a crosstown rival - would prefer LA can or can't trade him at the deadline for an asset(s)?

IF LA is/was indeed interested, I wouldn't be surprised if Burke turned down a low round pick offer simply so he could ensure LA doesn't wind up with a high pick at the deadline.

I'll break it down for you guys.

Schneider wants to play for LA. He lives in California and his kids go to school there.

Dean Lombardi offered a 4th round pick for Schneider giving Brian Burke two options:

1) Take the offer and allow the Kings to trade Schneider at the deadline.

2) Waive Schneider allowing the Kings to pick him up off waivers but preventing them from trading him at the deadline.

Now lets further analyze these two options...

Option 1: Burke takes the pick and really pisses off Schneider because now he will have to move at the deadline.

Option 2: Keep Schneider happy by preventing the Kings from trading him. Also, the Kings do no gain assets at the deadline.

What does any smart GM do? OPTION 2

I'll break it down for you guys.

Schneider wants to play for LA. He lives in California and his kids go to school there.

Dean Lombardi offered a 4th round pick for Schneider giving Brian Burke two options:

1) Take the offer and allow the Kings to trade Schneider at the deadline.

2) Waive Schneider allowing the Kings to pick him up off waivers but preventing them from trading him at the deadline.

Now lets further analyze these two options...

Option 1: Burke takes the pick and really pisses off Schneider because now he will have to move at the deadline.

Option 2: Keep Schneider happy by preventing the Kings from trading him. Also, the Kings do no gain assets at the deadline.

What does any smart GM do? OPTION 2

This is the most likely scenario although the Kings can possibly trade him.. they just have to offer him to teams that also placed a waiver claim on him first.. so they still might be able to trade him..

How could you treat players like this. :shakehead

He's the best GM in the NHL :sarcasm: Only he waives all his major FA signings, it must be a crazy type of genius.

Or he just can't even turn good players like Bryz and Schneider into a draft pick. :sarcasm:

Who needs asset managment right?

Bare?

- Franchise goalie (Giguere)
- Great young backup (Hiller)
- Franchise center (Getzlaf)
- First line LW and RW (Kunitz, Perry)
- All-star defender (Pronger)
- Solid prospects (Ryan, Mitera)
- Lots of cap space

Yeah that's a horrible cupboard for any GM to inherit. If Burke truly is gone, his replacement should be overjoyed to enter with that core and cap space to get the players he wants and make the team according to his style.

I believe he was refering to the fact that the only good D-man in the Ducks "cupboard" is Mitera. There aren't any other D-men in the Ducks system ready to step into the NHL. Players like Kunitz, Getz and Giggy aren't in the cupboard...

This is the most likely scenario although the Kings can possibly trade him.. they just have to offer him to teams that also placed a waiver claim on him first.. so they still might be able to trade him..

Like I said in the Rumors Section... every GM in the league knows LA will put an offer in for Schneider. Knowing this some teams will put an offer in just in case LA tries to trade him at the deadline. It's simple... Schneider will not be traded.

He's the best GM in the NHL :sarcasm: Only he waives all his major FA signings, it must be a crazy type of genius.

Or he just can't even turn good players like Bryz and Schneider into a draft pick. :sarcasm:

Who needs asset managment right?

What does he lose? Absolutely nothing.

What does he gain? Cap sapce.

Try thinking outside the box... one time! You can't!

Like I said in the Rumors Section... every GM in the league knows LA will put an offer in for Schneider. Knowing this some teams will put an offer in just in case LA tries to trade him at the deadline. It's simple... Schneider will not be traded.



What does he lose? Absolutely nothing.

What does he gain? Cap sapce.

Try thinking outside the box... one time! You can't!

The fact he keeps backing himself into these situations shows something. I have a feeling the same ones defending Burke at all costs will change their tune as soon as he is the gM elsewhere and the koolaide runs dry.

The fact he keeps backing himself into these situations shows something. I have a feeling the same ones defending Burke at all costs will change their tune as soon as he is the gM elsewhere and the koolaide runs dry.

A great GM defends the Stanley Cup. Burke thought Selanne and Niedermayer were retiring so he got replacements. Turns out they didn't retire so now he is letting the replacements go. The only move I disagree 100% with was trading McDonald for Weight. Burke knew Selanne was coming back but he won't admit it. Had the Ducks had McDonald in the playoffs they beat Dallas.

A great GM defends the Stanley Cup. Burke thought Selanne and Niedermayer were retiring so he got replacements. Turns out they didn't retire so now he is letting the replacements go. The only move I disagree 100% with was trading McDonald for Weight. Burke knew Selanne was coming back but he won't admit it. Had the Ducks had McDonald in the playoffs they beat Dallas.

That's BS. If Burkie knew Teemu was coming back he'd have never signed Bertuzzi. Mac would have been let go this year anyway to make room for Getzy, Perry and Kunie's new contracts. But your first statement is good.

A great GM defends the Stanley Cup. Burke thought Selanne and Niedermayer were retiring so he got replacements. Turns out they didn't retire so now he is letting the replacements go. The only move I disagree 100% with was trading McDonald for Weight. Burke knew Selanne was coming back but he won't admit it. Had the Ducks had McDonald in the playoffs they beat Dallas.

I LOL'd


No.

I believe he was refering to the fact that the only good D-man in the Ducks "cupboard" is Mitera. There aren't any other D-men in the Ducks system ready to step into the NHL. Players like Kunitz, Getz and Giggy aren't in the cupboard...

First of all, the Ducks have no need for a dman to step up and play this season, their #5/6 is Huskins/Montador. Salcido was top 3 in the AHL for dmen points i believe, and they say Mikkelson is further along in the development process than Salcido. Meaning, both will challenge for spots this season, and unless a tragedy occurs, both will probably be on the team next year along with Mitera. That is 3 dmen that will be ready next season.

I'll break it down for you guys.

Schneider wants to play for LA. He lives in California and his kids go to school there.

Dean Lombardi offered a 4th round pick for Schneider giving Brian Burke two options:

1) Take the offer and allow the Kings to trade Schneider at the deadline.

2) Waive Schneider allowing the Kings to pick him up off waivers but preventing them from trading him at the deadline.

Now lets further analyze these two options...

Option 1: Burke takes the pick and really pisses off Schneider because now he will have to move at the deadline.

Option 2: Keep Schneider happy by preventing the Kings from trading him. Also, the Kings do no gain assets at the deadline.

What does any smart GM do? OPTION 2

A smart GM doesn't sign a 39 year old in serious decline to a contract that pays almost $6 million dollars a season.

I called this back in June when a thread started on Schneider's trade value. And I was flamed for telling Ducks fans not to expect getting anything for him.

The news isn't all bad for Ducks fans, though, there is a silver lining. You should take heart that this gets a really bad contract off your team's hands. And it gets rid of a possible distraction (Schneider's fate) before training camp starts.

A smart GM doesn't sign a 39 year old in serious decline to a contract that pays almost $6 million dollars a season.

I called this back in June when a thread started on Schneider's trade value. And I was flamed for telling Ducks fans not to expect getting anything for him.

The news isn't all bad for Ducks fans, though, there is a silver lining. You should take heart that this gets a really bad contract off your team's hands. And it gets rid of a possible distraction (Schneider's fate) before training camp starts.

Serious decline? He was our most consistent offensive d-man and was over +20. He's only being moved because we can't fit him in. If Scott Niedermayer retired Schneids would stay put and we'd be happy about it. No a smart GM figures how to get a year our Mat Schneider and still retain Scott Niedermayer.

How is waiving Schneider going to free up enough cap space to sign Selanne?

First of all, the Ducks have no need for a dman to step up and play this season, their #5/6 is Huskins/Montador. Salcido was top 3 in the AHL for dmen points i believe, and they say Mikkelson is further along in the development process than Salcido. Meaning, both will challenge for spots this season, and unless a tragedy occurs, both will probably be on the team next year along with Mitera. That is 3 dmen that will be ready next season.
OT, but it really seems like the Ducks don't like young defensemen (under 25). They've had boatloads of lower caliber guys ready to crack the NHL and have gotten rid of all of them. O'Brien, Kondratiev, Rome, Wilson, Skinner, Smid, Popovic, Foster. They just seem to prefer older Dmen, probably to avoid growing pains while in competitive mode. Although Niskanen shows that it can be done.
How is waiving Schneider going to free up enough cap space to sign Selanne?
If he's claimed, it gives us some 2+ million free. That might not be enough for Selanne. We may have to move Todd as well.

If he's not claimed, we're still above the cap come Day 1 of the season. And we're still screwed.

Serious decline? He was our most consistent offensive d-man and was over +20. He's only being moved because we can't fit him in. If Scott Niedermayer retired Schneids would stay put and we'd be happy about it. No a smart GM figures how to get a year our Mat Schneider and still retain Scott Niedermayer.

The fact that Schneider is on waivers right now is definitive proof that his contract is terrible. If he had any trade value whatsoever then Burke would trade him. It's idiotic to give an asset away for free when you can get a decent return.

And yes, Schneider has been in serious decline for 3 or 4 seasons now. His goal production is falling. His assist totals are falling. He's even becoming increasingly brittle, missing more and more games. He'll probably get claimed by a desperate team with loads of cap space, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he cleared waivers. He has negative value because of his salary.

If Burke were smart, he would have pursued Rafalski as a replacement for Niedermayer. Rafalski is a far better player, several years younger, and provides a lot of what Niedermayer brings. All for roughly the same salary as Schneider. If Burke had signed Rafalski he could easily flip him in trade and get a nice return.

I like Dan Wood's analysis where he compares it to a poker game. If other GMs were truly interested in Schneider, they are going to pick him up. Otherwise, they were just kicking tires to see how desparate Burkie was and whether he was willing to add something to get a trade to happen. By waiving Schneider, Burkie is telling all those other GMs, **** or get off the pot.

The fact that Schneider is on waivers right now is definitive proof that his contract is terrible. If he had any trade value whatsoever then Burke would trade him. It's idiotic to give an asset away for free when you can get a decent return.

And yes, Schneider has been in serious decline for 3 or 4 seasons now. His goal production is falling. His assist totals are falling. He's even becoming increasingly brittle, missing more and more games. He'll probably get claimed by a desperate team with loads of cap space, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he cleared waivers. He has negative value because of his salary.

If Burke were smart, he would have pursued Rafalski as a replacement for Niedermayer. Rafalski is a far better player, several years younger, and provides a lot of what Niedermayer brings. All for roughly the same salary as Schneider. If Burke had signed Rafalski he could easily flip him in trade and get a nice return.
A) Rafalski costs more than Schneider. He's better (probably even better value), but costs more.
B) Burke, rightly or wrongly, doesn't want to sign long term contracts. Rafalski wanted a longer contract, and so he wasn't an option for the Ducks.
C) Rafalski has essentially said Detroit was his only serious option. He wanted to come home. So Burke couldn't get him if he wanted him.


I don't know how so many people have such a bad view of Schneider. He's a market-for-UFA paid (overpaid, but that's UFA) offensive defenseman. A little bit of an offensive specialist, but he gets the points and is a valuable PP contributor. In fact, our PP was statically best in the season when he and Pronger manned the points, with no Niedermayer or Selanne. He's old, but there's only 1 more year of the contract. He actually had a good year minus the injury and considering he got put on the 3rd pairing when Niedermayer returned. Just because Burke screwed up with not moving him earlier doesn't mean Schneider is a bad player.

Or just go on like the loads of people who seem to have problems separating their hate for Burke from the actual moves.


Oh, and Woods now seems to think other teams weren't willing to give no salary back? If that's the case, then waivers truly is the best option. Although I personally would prefer waiving Marchant to get under the cap, then just waiting it out for teams to give up on Sundin to move Schneider.

I don't know how so many people have such a bad view of Schneider.

Because it helps reinforce their wishful thinking...that Burke is a horrible GM.

So in the last 2 seasons Burke let Penner walk (for a contract that is proving to be right) signed big bad Burt and then Bought him out (which still counts against the cap) and now has to get rid of Schnieds. Tell me again which GM is flushing his team down the crapper. In the last 2 seasons Edmonton signed Penner a 25 year old 20-30 goal guy drafted Gagner traded for Cole and Vish, and our team is overloaded with prospects. You better hope Burke goes to T.O. or god help the Ducks

Selanne may have become tired of waiting, and entertained thoughts talking to teams with space for him. Burkie says eff that, and just waives Schneider. A second round pick isn't worth seeing Selanne go elsewhere.

Because it helps reinforce their wishful thinking...that Burke is a horrible GM.

The Red Wings glee club is out in full effect for this one, back after their 6 year absence.

Selanne may have become tired of waiting, and entertained thoughts talking to teams with space for him. Burkie says eff that, and just waives Schneider. A second round pick isn't worth seeing Selanne go elsewhere.

I heard he was talking to Edmonton

So in the last 2 seasons Burke let Penner walk (for a contract that is proving to be right) signed big bad Burt and then Bought him out (which still counts against the cap) and now has to get rid of Schnieds. Tell me again which GM is flushing his team down the crapper. In the last 2 seasons Edmonton signed Penner a 25 year old 20-30 goal guy drafted Gagner traded for Cole and Vish, and our team is overloaded with prospects. You better hope Burke goes to T.O. or god help the Ducks

And as the Ducks are competing for another Stanley Cup, the Oilers will be...

1) talking about rebuilding
2) talking about Chris Pronger
3) talking about Brian Burke

but that is all they will be doing this next season...just talking.

The Red Wings glee club is out in full effect for this one, back after their 6 year absence.

And I see the semi-illiterate Oilers boosters are making their way over as well. Should make for a few entertaining days of HFBoarding. These clowns' nuts must have exploded when they saw Schneider was waived.

And as the Ducks are competing for another Stanley Cup, the Oilers will be...

1) talking about rebuilding
2) talking about Chris Pronger
3) talking about Brian Burke

but that is all they will be doing this next season...just talking.

We beat you guys 3 out of 4 last year and we have improved our team alot this off season, what's Burke done again........... O wait that's right he is buying his way out of his mistakes.

Selanne may have become tired of waiting, and entertained thoughts talking to teams with space for him. Burkie says eff that, and just waives Schneider. A second round pick isn't worth seeing Selanne go elsewhere.

rt, can always rely on you for a decent post.

I suppose it's possible, but I don't see Selanne laying down any ultimatums. I think we must have overestimated the market for Schneider, which still shocks me. I think the Lang deal to Montreal really threw a wrench in it, but that's only a guess.

And as the Ducks are competing for another Stanley Cup, the Oilers will be...

1) talking about rebuilding
2) talking about Chris Pronger
3) talking about Brian Burke

but that is all they will be doing this next season...just talking.

Jerky, you know better bud.

Burke's starting to piss me off.

Kings aren't going to claim him.

The Kings are highly unlikely to claim Mathieu Schneider off waivers. They would likely take a long look at him should be clear waivers tomorrow.


www.insidesocal.com/kings

hey guys just having some fun at Burkes expense, The ducks have a good team Gets and Perry are great young players and Pronger is a top D-man, it should be a good season for both teams, and all we can hope for is a playoff meeting between us this year, that should be good for some more fireworks from Lowe and Burke.

Kings aren't going to claim him.



www.insidesocal.com/kings

I didn't think so. Lombardi is a smart GM and wants to build his team in the same vein as the Hawks.

I don't get how Burke didn't recieve a decent offer for Schneider the whole summer.

Selanne may have become tired of waiting, and entertained thoughts talking to teams with space for him. Burkie says eff that, and just waives Schneider. A second round pick isn't worth seeing Selanne go elsewhere.

This is crap. Sorry. :dunce:

I believe he was refering to the fact that the only good D-man in the Ducks "cupboard" is Mitera. There aren't any other D-men in the Ducks system ready to step into the NHL. Players like Kunitz, Getz and Giggy aren't in the cupboard...

Whatabout Mikkelson and Salcido, I hear they're both on the verge of making the team.

I believe he was refering to the fact that the only good D-man in the Ducks "cupboard" is Mitera. There aren't any other D-men in the Ducks system ready to step into the NHL. Players like Kunitz, Getz and Giggy aren't in the cupboard...

Thankyou for clarifying, that's exactly what I meant.

A question for you Ducks fans: even if Schneider is waived, wouldn't you guys still be over your 50 million internal cap? Also, I think even if you drop all of Schneider's salary, you would still only have about 2 million in cap space. How are you going to get Selanne signed?

how is everyone calling Burke the best GM in the NHL!!!???

No one in their right mind actually thinks he is the best GM in the NHL

So in the last 2 seasons Burke let Penner walk (for a contract that is proving to be right)

How is Penner's contract "proving to be right?" He scored two more points than he did in 2006-07 on a team that he played prime time minutes and scored most of his goals on the PP?

He's not worth $4.26M a year.

A question for you Ducks fans: even if Schneider is waived, wouldn't you guys still be over your 50 million internal cap? Also, I think even if you drop all of Schneider's salary, you would still only have about 2 million in cap space. How are you going to get Selanne signed?

Read the thread troll.

A question for you Ducks fans: even if Schneider is waived, wouldn't you guys still be over your 50 million internal cap? Also, I think even if you drop all of Schneider's salary, you would still only have about 2 million in cap space. How are you going to get Selanne signed?

That's 50 mil of actual dollars spent which can be achieve even if we're near the cap. Plus more players can be moved during the season to get the budget down. The pressing issue for now and until the beginning of the season is moving Schneider and signing Selanne.

Selanne may have become tired of waiting, and entertained thoughts talking to teams with space for him. Burkie says eff that, and just waives Schneider. A second round pick isn't worth seeing Selanne go elsewhere.
It's certainly possible. I kind of wondered if Bryz was waived because Hiller wanted to be in the NHL instead of the AHL. I kind of doubt that Teemu would do that though. I think it has more to do with Burke wanting Teemu in for all of training camp, so he decides he has to move now.
A question for you Ducks fans: even if Schneider is waived, wouldn't you guys still be over your 50 million internal cap? Also, I think even if you drop all of Schneider's salary, you would still only have about 2 million in cap space. How are you going to get Selanne signed?
They would be over the 50 million budget. But not by as much as you might think, as they're paying some 2 million (extremely rough, don't remember the numbers) less than the cap hits because of backloaded contracts and bonuses unlikely to be achieved.

Also, I kind of suspect it's a "50 million not including Teemu" cap. Sort of like how last season we had a "44 million not including Scotty and Teemu" cap.

Read the thread troll.

I had not seen any explanation to my question prior to my post. Maybe you should check what the term troll means before you use it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Unless you think of course ALL Oilers/Red Wings fans are trolls, in which case you would be an idiot.

That's 50 mil of actual dollars spent which can be achieve even if we're near the cap. Plus more players can be moved during the season to get the budget down. The pressing issue for now and until the beginning of the season is moving Schneider and signing Selanne.

I'm guessing you guys would like to waive Todd Marchant as well? I don't think you could get anything from him in a trade. I know a few teams who would be interested in Pahlsson, R. Niedermayer , and Moen although I don't think they are available from your viewpoint.

Kings aren't going to claim him.
They would likely take a long look at him should be clear waivers tomorrow.
www.insidesocal.com/kings
What does that mean? That if he clears they'd be willing to actually pay a low pick to trade for him afterwards? Or do they think they can get Schneider and an extra pick compensation for future considerations? He isn't referring to recall waivers, is he? Because I doubt it gets to that and it's not even possible for a couple weeks.

I don't really see why "they'd take a look" at him after he's waived but not before.

I had not seen any explanation to my question prior to my post. Maybe you should check what the term troll means before you use it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Unless you think of course ALL Oilers/Red Wings fans are trolls, in which case you would be an idiot.

Do you normally frequent the Ducks board? I don't seem to recall. So you Oiler and Wings fans do seem to crawl out of the woodwork like cockroaches at certain predictable times.

Ducks blog (http://ducks.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NHLPage&id=12887) with Brady's speculation on why the Ducks waived Schneider. OT, but he also mentions later that Perry was 1 of half a dozen players motion captured for NHL09.
http://cdn.nhl.com/ducks/images/upload/2008/09/FrozenMoment_091508.jpg
But there is legitimate reasoning behind the move by the Ducks, who were likely dealing with several issues when it came to moving Schneider. One is that any teams interested in the veteran d-man that were either at, near or over the salary cap themselves, were likely offering a player in the $2 million range back to the Ducks to free up room for Schneider. And that's something the Ducks simply are not in a position to do. Meanwhile, any of the teams dealing with Anaheim for Schneider know the Ducks are in a position where they desperately want to move him. And those teams were looking to take advantage and sweeten the deal in their favor. Word is that some teams were looking for Anaheim to throw in a prospect or a draft pick along with Schneider, and the Ducks wouldn't pull the trigger on that.

There is also the other side of the coin to look at, that the Ducks were looking to deal Schneider for another team's prospect or draft pick. But teams with plenty of room under the cap to bring in a salary like Schneider's are probably in rebuilding mode, and the last thing they want to do is trade away part of their future for a 39-year-old veteran.

In addition, there is still the Mats Sundin issue at stake here, as Sundin is still unsure whether he wants to come back and play, and the teams with room to sign him are waiting to hear what his decision might be. With training camp just four days away, Brian Burke simply didn't have the luxury to wait for that to pan out.

Clearly the Ducks would have loved to get something in return for Schneider that wouldn't have put them in only a slightly worse cap situation that they're in now. But so far that hasn't been feasible. While it would have been nice, keep in mind that the ultimate goal here is to get rid of Schneider's salary to free up room to sign Selanne. If that has to be done by getting nothing in return for Schneider -- i.e. some team claiming him off waivers in the next 20 hours -- then so be it. If that happens, the Ducks essentially are trading Mathieu Schneider for Teemu Selanne, and there isn't a Ducks fan in the world who wouldn't approve of that trade. Now, would a trade of Schneider for Selanne and some team's draft pick be ideal? Sure, but probably not likely.

By putting Schneider on waivers, the Ducks are reiterating to the rest of the league that Schneider can be had for nothing in return, and if you want him, you better grab him now because he might be gone. Now the Ducks' hope is that he's claimed by one of the teams in a cap position to bring him in. One of the seemingly likely teams to do that is the Kings, who have plenty of cap room and could use a veteran defenseman. Meanwhile, the Kings are No. 2 on the waiver priority list, which runs in inverse order to last year's standings.

Now the Ducks are in a position where they hope Schneider gets claimed, and speculation around here is that there is a 50/50 chance of that happening. If not, the Ducks have to go to work again to make a deal for him, and possibly be willing to take a hit one way or another to make that happen. One thing to note: the buyout situation that the Ducks faced with Todd Bertuzzi -- where they are paying 2/3 of his salary over the next two years -- won't apply to Schneider. From what I understand, the buyout option period ended July 1.

And yes, all Wings and Oilers fans are trolls. :sarcasm:

There are a few teams with cap space and defensive holes that have expressed interest in MS this summer. I would imagine one of these teams will claim him off waivers to better their team. I think the larger story has become lost in the Kings speculation.

Good move by the Ducks to stir up the pot and know their options early in the season. Either way the sky is not falling. Should be interesting.

Ducks are fine.

Now Ducks fans can start thinking about how to make the playoffs

Do you normally frequent the Ducks board? I don't seem to recall. So you Oiler and Wings fans do seem to crawl out of the woodwork like cockroaches at certain predictable times.

I don't post here a lot but I read threads here quite a bit.

Now Ducks fans can start thinking about how to make the playoffs

Yeah, because Schneider is the difference between 4th in the West and 9th.

how is everyone calling Burke the best GM in the NHL!!!???


cough cough

Detroit red wing fans point to what their GM has done over the past few years and would and could make a case for their gm being the best

This is a fairly predictible result to the Schneider issue. Waiving him basically ensures that he is off the "books" for this season. His salary is not a huge deal to teams that can afford to absorb his expiring salary for this season, the problem is that there are very few teams in that situation. What happens if he is not picked up at all? or if he is picked up by Atlanta but then retires because he doesnt want to play for them? Do the ducks get stuck paying the "oldtimer" cap hit?

Ericnut your thoughts about Burke being nice and considerate of Schneider are a total load of poo. How is allowing him to be claimed by the worst teams in the NHL, and them not being able to trade him to a contender at the deadline doing Schneider any favors? Ensuring that he finishes his career playing in Atlanta or Florida on perenial loser teams is not helping him out.

Burkes hand was forced in that he needs to clear salary to make room for Selanne. The problem is that he is the one who forced it.
The Ducks could be in real depth trouble if they are forced to waive another asset to sign Selanne, as it seems that Selanne will only consider playing for the Ducks.

A person has to wonder how long Burke can ride the Pronger trade and the Cup victory, because his GM and Media performances in the last 14 months leaves a lot to be desired.

This is a fairly predictible result to the Schneider issue. Waiving him basically ensures that he is off the "books" for this season. His salary is not a huge deal to teams that can afford to absorb his expiring salary for this season, the problem is that there are very few teams in that situation. What happens if he is not picked up at all? or if he is picked up by Atlanta but then retires because he doesnt want to play for them? Do the ducks get stuck paying the "oldtimer" cap hit?

Ericnut your thoughts about Burke being nice and considerate of Schneider are a total load of poo. How is allowing him to be claimed by the worst teams in the NHL, and them not being able to trade him to a contender at the deadline doing Schneider any favors? Ensuring that he finishes his career playing in Atlanta or Florida on perenial loser teams is not helping him out.

Burkes hand was forced in that he needs to clear salary to make room for Selanne. The problem is that he is the one who forced it.
The Ducks could be in real depth trouble if they are forced to waive another asset to sign Selanne, as it seems that Selanne will only consider playing for the Ducks.

A person has to wonder how long Burke can ride the Pronger trade and the Cup victory, because his GM and Media performances in the last 14 months leaves a lot to be desired.


this move could blow up in Burke's face. Due to the contract and age---Schneider might not get claimed. And becuase the contract was signd after he turned 35, even if the ducks release him---the full amount counts against the cap

this move could blow up in Burke's face. Due to the contract and age---Schneider might not get claimed. And becuase the contract was signd after he turned 35, even if the ducks release him---the full amount counts against the cap

This will most likely blow up in the rest of the league's face.
The Ducks are fine.

this move could blow up in Burke's face. Due to the contract and age---Schneider might not get claimed. And becuase the contract was signd after he turned 35, even if the ducks release him---the full amount counts against the cap

I dont see the Ducks releasing him as he is still a good PP Dman and has some value. Selanne must really have a huge value to the frachise for Burke to go through all this trouble to bring him back

This will most likely blow up in the rest of the league's face.
The Ducks are fine.

What he said is very true. If Schneider doesnt get claimed Selanne cant be signed, Schneider wont be very happy knowing that he is not wanted in Anaheim, and the Ducks are still over the cap.

How could it blow up in the leagues face?

What he said is very true. If Schneider doesnt get claimed Selanne cant be signed, Schneider wont be very happy knowing that he is not wanted in Anaheim, and the Ducks are still over the cap.

How could it blow up in the leagues face?

The Ducks are better off than the majority of teams regardless.
Quit being such a drama queens, there are hundreds of scenarios that can play out.
The Ducks will be fine.

I'm sure Schneider wasn't worth much with his salary that high...who cares..just get Selanne locked down.

A person has to wonder how long Burke can ride the Pronger trade and the Cup victory, because his GM and Media performances in the last 14 months leaves a lot to be desired.

oh seriously people knock it off. Burke hasn't been as bad as you're all making him out to be. Since he's been GM, the ONLY suspect transaction he's made (in my opinion) was the McDonald/Weight trade. We lost speed and an offensive threat for a washed-up nice guy. It didn't pan out and that sucks. Bertuzzi was a gamble that didn't end up AMAZING, but even Bertuzzi (despite the fact that so many of you hate him) produced decently, and because Burke was trying to find a way to patch up the team in the (possible) absence of Selanne, it really wasn't a bad trade overall. It sucks that we're stuck paying him now, but at the time Burke did what he had to do. Other than that, Burke has built up a damn decent team, and as far as his last 14 months go: in that time frame he has effectively secured the Ducks' competitive future by signing Giguere, Getzlaf and Perry and making sure we have a damn decent backup goalie in Hiller.

The bottom line is that Burke has done a lot of things right for a while now and it shocks me that so many people are willing to crucify him over a few iffy moves.

The Ducks are better off than the majority of teams regardless.
Quit being such a drama queens, there are hundreds of scenarios that can play out.
The Ducks will be fine.

Here here Mooseduck. The Ducks still have a great roster and they're headed to the playoffs again this season (barring any serious issues) for sure. They'll be fine.

How could it blow up in the leagues face?

Because many teams will look like amazing assclowns when they pass up on a great offensive defenseman ESPECIALLY if those teams need Dmen. [I'M LOOKING AT YOU LOS ANGELES!] ;)

I had not seen any explanation to my question prior to my post. Maybe you should check what the term troll means before you use it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Unless you think of course ALL Oilers/Red Wings fans are trolls, in which case you would be an idiot.
Know your ****

http://hfboards.com/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=786
:sarcasm:All in Good Fun

Well this is similar to the Bryzgalov situation. Schneider was really eager for top 4 pairing minutes, and Burke couldn't get him that on the Ducks, so he's allowing another team to take him that has more space for him... :sarcasm:

So in the last 2 seasons Burke let Penner walk (for a contract that is proving to be right) signed big bad Burt and then Bought him out (which still counts against the cap) and now has to get rid of Schnieds. Tell me again which GM is flushing his team down the crapper. In the last 2 seasons Edmonton signed Penner a 25 year old 20-30 goal guy drafted Gagner traded for Cole and Vish, and our team is overloaded with prospects. You better hope Burke goes to T.O. or god help the Ducks

He didn't let Penner walk... I'd take the 3 picks over Penner all over again.

The Ducks are better off than the majority of teams regardless.
Quit being such a drama queens, there are hundreds of scenarios that can play out.
The Ducks will be fine.

No kidding. You'd think the Ducks were in shambles the way most opposing fans seem to think Anaheim fans should be freaking out.
And for those who think Burke should be fired, why would he be? The Ducks have never had a bad or even average season under Burke. They've all been good or great, and that doesn't look like it'll change this season, seeing how the core of the team now is not so different from the one that won the Cup. Results DO matter, and Burke has certainly had excellent ones here so far. Some people need to settle down.

Worst case, if no one claims Schneider, Burke will just have to give in and offer a pick with him for someone to take him. So it's not that bad of a situation as some of you make it out to be. No matter what happens, Selanne will be a Duck and Schneider will be someplace else.

You better hope Burke goes to T.O. or god help the Ducks

Right, cause the Ducks are soo screwed right now? Hello??? We just finished fourth after limping out of the gate and having two stars play less then half the season. Now we have a better team...

screwed right?


Oh and BTW, the 5 picks we got > Penner.

And Schneider was a good replacement for Nieds last year, but we don't need him now. He was great but, "Thanks but no thanks" in the nicest way possible.

Why are we wasting time talking about Dustin "4.25 million for the 3rd line" Penner?
oh seriously people knock it off. Burke hasn't been as bad as you're all making him out to be. Since he's been GM, the ONLY suspect transaction he's made (in my opinion) was the McDonald/Weight trade. We lost speed and an offensive threat for a washed-up nice guy. It didn't pan out and that sucks. Bertuzzi was a gamble that didn't end up AMAZING, but even Bertuzzi (despite the fact that so many of you hate him) produced decently, and because Burke was trying to find a way to patch up the team in the (possible) absence of Selanne, it really wasn't a bad trade overall. It sucks that we're stuck paying him now, but at the time Burke did what he had to do. Other than that, Burke has built up a damn decent team, and as far as his last 14 months go: in that time frame he has effectively secured the Ducks' competitive future by signing Giguere, Getzlaf and Perry and making sure we have a damn decent backup goalie in Hiller.

The bottom line is that Burke has done a lot of things right for a while now and it shocks me that so many people are willing to crucify him over a few iffy moves.
Burke's made a number of bad moves. Signing Bertuzzi is #1 on the list, he was all risk with little upside. Also the McDonald trade, and waiting too long to move both Bryz and Schneider, resulting in getting nothing. And he's poor at asset management. He normally picks the right guy to acquire or jettison, but pays too much/receives too little. For example, Suts is a good pickup, he should take over the 4th line after May and Marchant are gone, but a 2nd?

That said, he's an excellent finisher. He got us the Cup. He gets another year or two from me to finish out this string. I just want him gone come rebuild time.

Why are we wasting time talking about Dustin "4.25 million for the 3rd line" Penner?

Burke's made a number of bad moves. Signing Bertuzzi is #1 on the list, he was all risk with little upside. Also the McDonald trade, and waiting too long to move both Bryz and Schneider, resulting in getting nothing. And he's poor at asset management. He normally picks the right guy to acquire or jettison, but pays too much/receives too little. For example, Suts is a good pickup, he should take over the 4th line after May and Marchant are gone, but a 2nd?

That said, he's an excellent finisher. He got us the Cup. He gets another year or two from me to finish out this string. I just want him gone come rebuild time.

I like both Perry and Penner, and I don't have a problem with either contract. I also
agree that Perry looks like he has more upside. But to see Perry as a franchise
cornerstone and dismiss Penner as an over-paid third-line throw away is not justified by what they have done on the ice.

Penner 183 56 43 99
Perry 208 59 64 123

I'm sure Schneider wasn't worth much with his salary that high...who cares..just get Selanne locked down.

I have the ducks at being about 3mil over the cap. MAtt is at 5.25--that woul free up 2.25 for the ducks to sign Selenne and ifthey need extra money they could waive marchant to free up another 2.5--

I think Marchant will be waived---he has a no trade and not a no movement clause--So I think he is the next to go. With Morrison now on the ducks and Neidermyer still around..Marchant is an expensiv 4th liner

Right, cause the Ducks are soo screwed right now? Hello??? We just finished fourth after limping out of the gate and having two stars play less then half the season. Now we have a better team...

screwed right?



I think most Burke bashers are waiting patiently for next season when he hands an empty cupboard over to Nonis (again). The Ducks have nowhere near the cap space necessary to bring in 6 defencemen and 8 forwards. The entire defence consists of Pronger and ufa's that must be signed. These ufa's are always over priced and the most expensive option.

In the history of the NHL, no team has ever been in this kind of situation. 2 top forwards, 2 decent forwards (assuming ryan matures) and 1 dman, everyone else is ufa.

I think you guys will be cup contenders this year. You are definately not screwed this year.

I think most Burke bashers are waiting patiently for next season when he hands an empty cupboard over to Nonis (again). The Ducks have nowhere near the cap space necessary to bring in 6 defencemen and 8 forwards. The entire defence consists of Pronger and ufa's that must be signed. These ufa's are always over priced and the most expensive option.

In the history of the NHL, no team has ever been in this kind of situation. 2 top forwards, 2 decent forwards (assuming ryan matures) and 1 dman, everyone else is ufa.

I think you guys will be cup contenders this year. You are definately not screwed this year.

Chill it. This season hasn't even started yet. Burke always said he didn't want his mistakes to be taken on by another GM hence why most contracts are running out when his contract is also up. As it is the Bertuzzi buy out will still be on the books but other than that the team is in quite good shape

We have $31.5m in payroll (nhlscap) for 09-10 and have the following under contract

Giguere
Hiller

Pronger

Getzlaf
Perry
Kunitz
Ryan
Carter

Presume Ryan hits half of his $1.1m bonus money then we are at $31m, leaving $19m if we are sticking to a budget of $50m (although this is this years supposed budget plus I don't think we have stuck to one for the last few seasons so it is likely to be higher)

With regards to the D, potentially Mikkleson, Salcido and Mitera could all play in 09-10, with combined salaries (not cap hit due to bonuses etc.) below $3m

With forwards we are probably looking for a first/second line left wing and a second line C, unless Ryan Carter has stepped up by then. Also, we have to hope the God line, or most of it, is resigned, but that shouldn't cost too much (they're currently at $4.3m). The fourth line can be filled with bit - part players costing no more than $2m between them

Take out the $3m for the prospect defensemen and the $2m for the fourth line from the supposed $19m budget and you're left with $14m for three more defencemen, making seven in total, the god line and two top tier forwards. Which is do-able, if you're careful, roughly $2m each - if Carter or another prospect can step up then even better.

2) Waive Schneider allowing the Kings to pick him up off waivers but preventing them from trading him at the deadline.

Waiving him doesn't prevent a team from trading him at the deadline.

Take out the $3m for the prospect defensemen and the $2m for the fourth line from the supposed $19m budget and you're left with $14m for three more defencemen, making seven in total, the god line and two top tier forwards. Which is do-able, if you're careful, roughly $2m each - if Carter or another prospect can step up then even better.

btw, I didn't say you were screwed next year, just that the Ducks are in unprecedented territory. if you allow 14 mill for 3 top 4 dmen, the God line, and 2 top forwards, here is how it breaks down

God Line - 4.3 million, same as this year. Lets assume no raises, no cuts. If Burke can't give them raises, they will probably sign elsewhere so the 14 million become 9.7 million.

Lets assume that 9.7 is spread evenly over the remaining 3 top 4 dmen and 2 top 6 forwards. It allows 1.94 million per player. That number gets you ?? I can't find any decent ufa forwards or dmen who signed for that little.

An ok top 4 dman is 4 mill in ufa, an ok top 6 forward is 4 mill in ufa. We aren't talking superstars, we are talking ok players.

Chill it. This season hasn't even started yet. Burke always said he didn't want his mistakes to be taken on by another GM hence why most contracts are running out when his contract is also up.

I'm going to use that at work.

"Yeah, I didn't bother working on next years product like I was supposed to because I'm going to be with another company and I don't want a new guy to have to come in and fix any mistakes I might make."

On the plus side, Nonis has a sweet thing going, perhaps. He's got all that experience coming in behind Burke. Look for him to be the Toronto GM in 2012 or so...

What does that mean? That if he clears they'd be willing to actually pay a low pick to trade for him afterwards? Or do they think they can get Schneider and an extra pick compensation for future considerations? He isn't referring to recall waivers, is he? Because I doubt it gets to that and it's not even possible for a couple weeks.

I don't really see why "they'd take a look" at him after he's waived but not before.
If the Kings pick Schnieder off waivers, they can not trade him.

For a young team like the Kings, Schnieder would be a good pick up because he could help teach their young D and then at the trading deadline he would be an attractive player to dump to get some assets for him. So it would make more sense for the kings to pick him up for a mid-level prospect or draft pick now then off of waivers and then replenish that (and more) at the trade deadline where, traditionally, other teams will be willing to spend more for a player.

Waiving him doesn't prevent a team from trading him at the deadline.
A team that picks up a player off of waivers can not trade that player that year.

A team that picks up a player off of waivers can not trade that player that year.

They can, but they have to offer that player to each team that also made a claim for him during the waiver period.

A team claiming him can't trade him back to Anaheim for one year.

A team that picks up a player off of waivers can not trade that player that year.

Not true.....they must offer the player to another team that made a claim. If no other team made a claim or they no longer want the player then a trade is available. A couple of years ago the Avalanche claimed George Parros off of waivers and then traded him to Anaheim a month later for a 2nd round pick.

Looks like he cleared waivers.

Looks like he cleared waivers.

God...say it ain't so...

Darren Dreger of TSN confirms, Schneider cleared waivers.

Looks like Burke will have to send a pick or something along with Schneider to dump his contract. There's no chance Burke would place him or re-call waivers is there?

Darren Dreger of TSN confirms, Schneider cleared waivers.

Big Bob from T.S.N. also stated that if he cleared Burke might have to sweeten the pot with a second round pick (that would suck)

A team that picks up a player off of waivers can not trade that player that year.

That is when the player signs an offersheet, then he can't be traded for a year not waivers

That is when the player signs an offersheet, then he can't be traded for a year not waivers

It's true with regards to waivers as well, at least somewhat. If a team claims a player on waivers they can't trade the player that season until they offer him on waivers to any other team that put a claim in for him. So there is a chance that if you claim a player on waivers you can't trade him.

Schneider clearing isn't that bad of news. Burke might choose to put him through recall waivers, but that would require getting rid of more salary (Marchant?) to sign Selanne. More likely is that it will now cost Anaheim a pick as a trade sweetener.

Why are we wasting time talking about Dustin "4.25 million for the 3rd line" Penner?

Burke's made a number of bad moves. Signing Bertuzzi is #1 on the list, he was all risk with little upside. Also the McDonald trade, and waiting too long to move both Bryz and Schneider, resulting in getting nothing. And he's poor at asset management. He normally picks the right guy to acquire or jettison, but pays too much/receives too little. For example, Suts is a good pickup, he should take over the 4th line after May and Marchant are gone, but a 2nd?

That said, he's an excellent finisher. He got us the Cup. He gets another year or two from me to finish out this string. I just want him gone come rebuild time.

Just saying, at the rate Burke is going that might be closer than you think.

It's true with regards to waivers as well, at least somewhat. If a team claims a player on waivers they can't trade the player that season until they offer him on waivers to any other team that put a claim in for him. So there is a chance that if you claim a player on waivers you can't trade him.

This makes no sense, if you picked up a player on waivers you would be the first team to put in a claim as they go from the last place team up, therefore no other team would have put in a claim. IE if L.A. said no they don't want him but Tampa picked him up as the second worst team that means they can't trade him to Edmonton unless he goes though waivers again so L.A. has another chance, I would need to see that rule in the CBA

This makes no sense, if you picked up a player on waivers you would be the first team to put in a claim as they go from the last place team up, therefore no other team would have put in a claim. IE if L.A. said no they don't want him but Tampa picked him up as the second worst team that means they can't trade him to Edmonton unless he goes though waivers again so L.A. has another chance, I would need to see that rule in the CBA
You can have more than one team put in a claim for waivers.

They can, but they have to offer that player to each team that also made a claim for him during the waiver period.

This is true.


A team claiming him can't trade him back to Anaheim for one year.

This isn't. That rule only involved the waiver draft, which no longer exists.

Since Burke needs ALL of Schneider's contract off the books, I think he'd be open for any kind of a trade now. How about this.

Ducks trade Schneider and a '09 2nd rounder

to

LA for a '09 4th rounder

Schneider clearing isn't that bad of news. Burke might choose to put him through recall waivers, but that would require getting rid of more salary (Marchant?) to sign Selanne. More likely is that it will now cost Anaheim a pick as a trade sweetener.



Just saying, at the rate Burke is going that might be closer than you think.

What rate is that? Who has he removed? Mac? He would have been gone this year regardless.

Just saying, at the rate Burke is going that might be closer than you think.

They've got the same core as the team that won the Cup, they've got the key young players locked up for some time (with the exception of Penner, and they got plenty of return on that), and the cap squeeze is over at the end of the season. Certainly the Ducks will need youth to take a step forward next season, but that's inevitable for any veteran-led team.

The anti-Burke squadron can ******* themselves all they want over the Ducks' salary squeeze, but the bottom line is that the team is in good shape for the coming season, and in fine shape moving forward.

This makes no sense, if you picked up a player on waivers you would be the first team to put in a claim as they go from the last place team up, therefore no other team would have put in a claim. IE if L.A. said no they don't want him but Tampa picked him up as the second worst team that means they can't trade him to Edmonton unless he goes though waivers again so L.A. has another chance, I would need to see that rule in the CBA



When a player is put on waivers any team can put in a claim. After the waiver time expires the league reviews the claims and the player would go to the team with the highest selction priority. So theoretically all 29 teams could put in a claim if the felt so inclined as the waiver process does not progress like a draft(1-30).

Since Burke needs ALL of Schneider's contract off the books, I think he'd be open for any kind of a trade now. How about this.

Ducks trade Schneider and a '09 2nd rounder

to

LA for a '09 4th rounder

When the Devils needed to get there Dman's contract gone--they sent a first rounder to san jose

Let's Review Burke's asset mgmt:

Bryz -received nothing for a top flite goaltender
MacDonald - a washed up Weight rental
Bertuzzi - buyout
Schneider -??? probably a distressed sweetener trade

That's a pretty brutal record of late.

Now he's going to have to sweeten the pot in order to get rid of Scheider and there are only a few teams (the Kings) who can take on such a contract. Schneider + 1st for a 2nd and a 4th.

This isn't the end of the world drama queen.
OMG, we might lose a second round pick - oh lord what will we do?
There are hundreds of scenarios yet to play out.

This team will dump enough salary then beat most teams on any given night.
Regardless of the outcome. Duh.

The Ducks are fine.

I come in peace...
Could you explain some of the hundreds of scenario's to yet be played out? Just curious is all, cause it looks like there is only one scenario yet to be played, and that would be giving a pick away with MS.

When the Devils needed to get there Dman's contract gone--they sent a first rounder to san jose

And the player they traded was of the same quality as Schneider? Hmm...no.

How about Schneider + Marchant + 1st + edm 2nd to LA for 2nd and a 4th

And the player they traded was of the same quality as Schneider? Hmm...no.

it is about the money honey

Matt is 39 and is owned 5mil for this season--

it is about clearing the money off the ducksroster

Let's Review Burke's asset mgmt:

Bryz -received nothing for a top flite goaltender
MacDonald - a washed up Weight rental
Bertuzzi - buyout
Schneider -??? probably a distressed sweetener trade

That's a pretty brutal record of late.

Now he's going to have to sweeten the pot in order to get rid of Scheider and there are only a few teams (the Kings) who can take on such a contract. Schneider + 1st for a 2nd and a 4th.

The good news for Duck fans is the Leafs must be having second thoughts about hiring Burke (or is that the bad news?). When you critique other teams signings and moves and then follow that up with the above trasactions, the organization hiring you has to be...well... has to be the Leafs, I guess.

A match made in heaven.

The negative for Duck fans is that the huge FA's going in to next season(ie Beachamin) won't be signed...potential leafs for next season.

Just think of it this way, any trade Burke makes: Schneider +. It's like we're getting Selanne for the +.

So if it is, Schneider and a 2nd, we're getting Selanne for that 2nd.

Just think of it this way, any trade Burke makes: Schneider +. It's like we're getting Selanne for the +.

So if it is, Schneider and a 2nd, we're getting Selanne for that 2nd.

As a Selanne fan, I wish it were so. Unfortunately, Burke I think is also going to have to give up more in order to get Selanne signed. Getting ride of Schneider will only free up about $2.5 mill. I think Selanne is going to want (and deserves) $4 mill.

it is about the money honey

Matt is 39 and is owned 5mil for this season--

it is about clearing the money off the ducksroster

I think acquiring a player that will help a team is actually a lot more attractive than acquiring nothing but dead weight, dont you?

And the player they traded was of the same quality as Schneider? Hmm...no.

the player traded was Malakov who had allready returned to Russia. He was suspended by the Devils but his cap hit still applied. The sharks were far below the cap ceiling so they got a first round pick for their troubles (Perron). They immediately suspended Malakov and never paid him a dime.

In a cap world, the 4 million dollars of cap space was worth a 1st round pick. Schneider's cap space is probably around the same value. I would be surprised if Burke dumped Schneider for anything less than a 1st round pick.

According to the Malakov situation, the league forced NJ and the Sharks to have hockey value going both ways so you will probably see a deal where you guys get a player that can be sent to the minors for Schnieder and a 1st.

I would expect that you could imagine more than one scenario outside of the doom and gloom scenario. Otherwise, you are simply another nuisance to this discussion. Sorry, while you are certainly welcome, perhaps this isn't proper forum for non-Ducks fans. Perhaps, the main board's thread is a better spot to get some perspective.

Still haven't answered the Question, you are the one telling us there are options so what are they. Burkes asset management is going to get better MS and a 1 or 2 round pick for a 5 round pick a thats fantastic. And if you call that an option, well no wonder Burke still got a job. If you think that trade is off, every GM knows Burke is in a bind and will fleece him on this one.

the player traded was Malakov who had allready returned to Russia. He was suspended by the Devils but his cap hit still applied. The sharks were far below the cap ceiling so they got a first round pick for their troubles (Perron). They immediately suspended Malakov and never paid him a dime.

In a cap world, the 4 million dollars of cap space was worth a 1st round pick. Schneider's cap space is probably around the same value. I would be surprised if Burke dumped Schneider for anything less than a 1st round pick.

According to the Malakov situation, the league forced NJ and the Sharks to have hockey value going both ways so you will probably see a deal where you guys get a player that can be sent to the minors for Schnieder and a 1st.

Not in a million years MS just went through waivers teams could of had him for nothing, now he is going to get a first round pick he might have to give a first rounder just to move that contract

Not in a million years MS just went through waivers teams could of had him for nothing, now he is going to get a first round pick he might have to give a first rounder just to move that contract

If you had any knowledge of context you would realize that is exactly what he meant.

the player traded was Malakov who had allready returned to Russia. He was suspended by the Devils but his cap hit still applied. The sharks were far below the cap ceiling so they got a first round pick for their troubles (Perron). They immediately suspended Malakov and never paid him a dime.

In a cap world, the 4 million dollars of cap space was worth a 1st round pick. Schneider's cap space is probably around the same value. I would be surprised if Burke dumped Schneider for anything less than a 1st round pick.

According to the Malakov situation, the league forced NJ and the Sharks to have hockey value going both ways so you will probably see a deal where you guys get a player that can be sent to the minors for Schnieder and a 1st.

Taking a cap hit for a player that will not play is worth that 1st, I dont agree that taking a cap hit for a productive player is the same thing.

If you had any knowledge of context you would realize that is exactly what he meant.

Sorry the second paragraph sounded like he thought Burke could get a first round pick back.

How about Schneider + Marchant + 1st + edm 2nd to LA for 2nd and a 4th

You don't have our 2nd pick.


Not trolling! Just information.

Taking a cap hit for a player that will not play is worth that 1st, I dont agree that taking a cap hit for a productive player is the same thing.

Another difference with Malakhov was that the Sharks didn't actually have to pay him any money. All they took on was the cap hit and got the free 1st rounder. Yes a team who takes on Schneider's cap hit gets a relatively good hockey player, but they are also spending 5.5 million dollars.

Another difference is though that with Malakhov was that the Sharks didn't actually have to pay him any money. All they took on was the cap hit and got the free 1st rounder. Yes a team who takes on Schneider's cap hit gets a relatively good hockey player, but they are also spending 5.5 million dollars.

$5.75 million. Not a huge difference. But when it comes to teams worrying about their actual cash budget it might.

Still haven't answered the Question, you are the one telling us there are options so what are they. Burkes asset management is going to get better MS and a 1 or 2 round pick for a 5 round pick a thats fantastic. And if you call that an option, well no wonder Burke still got a job. If you think that trade is off, every GM knows Burke is in a bind and will fleece him on this one.

In the one scenario that you can imagine, we will never get fleeced because we end up with Teemu Selanne. We are going to beat most teams, which is the overall objective.

So MS + 1st or 2nd = Teemu Selanne? Is getting fleeced. LOL

The Ducks are chasing another Cup before a window closes this season. It's no surprise that there will be a transition next season with expected retirement of certain players. "Asset management" has been throw around by dopes with no clear understanding of the concept. The Ducks have a young, strong core returning next season, about 25m to spend and one or two seasoned General Managers. I am not surprised that the insecurities of outside fans has caused them to act so silly over this simple situtation.

The Ducks will be fine and will likely beat your team this season (and next).
The Ducks have looked strong at Anaheim Ice this week (Penner looks heavy again) and should have a good season. Again, the sky is not falling.

Sorry the second paragraph sounded like he thought Burke could get a first round pick back.

That's the way I read it too... guess we both don't unerstand context...lol :)

It sure will be interesting to see where this all ends up as it unfolds...

In the one scenario that you can imagine, we will never get fleeced because we end up with Teemu Selanne. We are going to beat most teams, which is the overall objective.

So MS + 1st or 2nd = Teemu Selanne? Is getting fleeced. LOL

The Ducks are chasing another Cup before a window closes this season. It's no surprise that there will be a transition next season with expected retirement of certain players. "Asset management" has been throw around by dopes with no clear understanding of the concept. The Ducks have a young, strong core returning next season, about 25m to spend and one or two seasoned General Managers. I am not surprised that the insecurities of outside fans has caused them to act so silly over this simple situtation.

The Ducks will be fine and will likely beat your team this season (and next).
The Ducks have looked strong at Anaheim Ice this week (Penner looks heavy again) and should have a good season. Again, the sky is not falling.

If you dream up any other options to the resolution of the MS situation, I will award you two brownie points for exercising your brains. :)

No offense, but you keep dodging the original question... what are the hundreds of scenario's?

Okay, how is the fact that other GM's don't want Schneider mean Burke is doing something wrong? At the time of the the signing it totally made sense. I was stoked quite frankly. I thought it meant Scotty was gone forever but at least Burkie went out and got a solid replacement. And I was one of the many that thought Scotty was done. Burke could not have foreseen the events that unfolded to proceed as they have. If Scotty said he was going to honor the rest of his contract when he came back last year then Schneider would have been traded rather than McDonald. I don't like to blame Scotty for his indecision but this whole situation was created because of it. Burke did the best he could do to restock his team and it's the rest of the league that making things difficult.

Another difference with Malakhov was that the Sharks didn't actually have to pay him any money. All they took on was the cap hit and got the free 1st rounder. Yes a team who takes on Schneider's cap hit gets a relatively good hockey player, but they are also spending 5.5 million dollars.

The Sharks are paying Rob Blake $5m for a one year deal.

MS is much better - someone should take MS and a pick, if not other deals will be worked out.

No offense, but you keep dodging the original question... what are the hundreds of scenario's?

You're fighting a losing battle man, don't bother. You're not going to get a straight answer from him. No one does.

In the one scenario that you can imagine, we will never get fleeced because we end up with Teemu Selanne. We are going to beat most teams, which is the overall objective.

So MS + 1st or 2nd = Teemu Selanne? Is getting fleeced. LOL

The Ducks are chasing another Cup before a window closes this season. It's no surprise that there will be a transition next season with expected retirement of certain players. "Asset management" has been throw around by dopes with no clear understanding of the concept. The Ducks have a young, strong core returning next season, about 25m to spend and one or two seasoned General Managers. I am not surprised that the insecurities of outside fans has caused them to act so silly over this simple situtation.

The Ducks will be fine and will likely beat your team this season (and next).
The Ducks have looked strong at Anaheim Ice this week (Penner looks heavy again) and should have a good season. Again, the sky is not falling.
It is getting Fleeced because if he had any brains Selanne is a UFA he didn't need to trade anyone for him let alone a first or second round pick in another very deep draft.

No offense, but you keep dodging the original question... what are the hundreds of scenario's?
We don't need to start a bunch of hysterical speculation.
I think we can leave that to the main board posters.

It is getting Fleeced because if he had any brains Selanne is a UFA he didn't need to trade anyone for him let alone a first or second round pick in another very deep draft.

Did we mention Selanne is likely signing at a huge discount (again)?
Nobody else gets that value.

MD as for your team beating mine we will see when the season starts, as for Penner how would you know he looks heavy he is down to 247lbs from 255 last year. oh just got a text alert ........E4 Selanne has signed with the Oilers, it says tired of waiting for Burke to fix his mess wants to report to camp and be ready for the season.

MD as for your team beating mine we will see when the season starts, as for Penner how would you know he looks heavy he is down to 247lbs from 255 last year. oh just got a text alert ........E4 Selanne has signed with the Oilers, it says tired of waiting for Burke to fix his mess wants to report to camp and be ready for the season.

He skates at Anaheim Ice with the Ducks as does Lupul, Kariya, others.
Teemu may sign elsewhere, things can be undone. Not likely.

(LOL, you get text alerts from Eklund. That made my day!)

He skates at Anaheim Ice with the Ducks as does Lupul, Kariya, others.
Teemu may sign elsewhere, things can be undone. Not likely.

(LOL, you get text alerts from Eklund. That made my day!)

Quoting this so Mooseduck can't delete it later. Hilarious.

He skates at Anaheim Ice with the Ducks as does Lupul, Kariya, others.
Teemu may sign elsewhere, things can be undone. Not likely.

(LOL, you get text alerts from Eklund. That made my day!)

It's called humour, read it again. hey man good luck and talk to you after the first game of Oil vs Ducks.

He skates at Anaheim Ice with the Ducks as does Lupul, Kariya, others.
Teemu may sign elsewhere, things can be undone. Not likely.

(LOL, you get text alerts from Eklund. That made my day!)

ROFL! You do know he's joking, right?

;)It's called humour, read it again. hey man good luck and talk to you after the first game of Oil vs Ducks.

Good luck this season.
Psst, you thought of another option on your own. (Selanne to Oilers) ;)

;)

Good luck this season.
Psst, you thought of another option on your own. (Selanne to Oilers) ;)

We do have the cap room, I think Selanne will ONLY play for the ducks as he must have had offers from other teams by now. The 2 playoff series I would like to see would be Oilers VS Ducks of Oilers VS Flames. I think they would be all out balls to the wall, great hockey.

We need teemu more than we need schneider so I don't care what happens so long teemu plays for us.

Burke's made a number of bad moves. Signing Bertuzzi is #1 on the list, he was all risk with little upside.

The Bertuzzi signing wasn't nearly as bad as the Weight signing. Having to buyout Bertuzzi in the end sucks, but Bertuzzi wasn't as bad of a player as everyone seems to suggest. He played 68 games last season and had 40 points and was a +8. That put him 5th on the Ducks' roster in terms of points despite the fact that he missed 14 games. Certainly he wasn't as good as Selanne, but given Burke's time restraints to find a replacement, he did just fine.

If you people don't like Bertuzzi, that's one thing. But saying he was crap last season really isn't true IMO.


Let's Review Burke's asset mgmt:

Bryz -received nothing for a top flite goaltender
MacDonald - a washed up Weight rental
Bertuzzi - buyout
Schneider -??? probably a distressed sweetener trade

That's a pretty brutal record of late.

Now he's going to have to sweeten the pot in order to get rid of Scheider and there are only a few teams (the Kings) who can take on such a contract. Schneider + 1st for a 2nd and a 4th.

As far as this goes, the Bryzgalov trade was more a pat on the shoulder to Bryz than a strategic move. The Ducks knew he should be a #1 somewhere, and they made that happen. If he was looking to do something strategic, he would have done it. So to say we got nothing for a great goaltender is missing the point entirely. That's not why he was moved.

And don't forget, the only reason Burke is taking a hit on this Schneider situation is so HE CAN SIGN SELANNE. No matter what happens with Schneider, I'm just glad we're getting Selanne back. It's not like he's throwing Schneids away just because he feels like it.

You can't just look at the action, you have to factor in the reasons for why the action was taken.

The Bertuzzi signing wasn't nearly as bad as the Weight signing. Having to buyout Bertuzzi in the end sucks, but Bertuzzi wasn't as bad of a player as everyone seems to suggest. He played 68 games last season and had 40 points and was a +8. That put him 5th on the Ducks' roster in terms of points despite the fact that he missed 14 games. Certainly he wasn't as good as Selanne, but given Burke's time restraints to find a replacement, he did just fine.

If you people don't like Bertuzzi, that's one thing. But saying he was crap last season really isn't true IMO.
Bertuzzi sucked, he made the team lazy, and he made Getzlaf a nonshooter. His points were largely a result of getting played with Getzlaf and Perry because he was a black hole on the 2nd line with anyone else. There also have been some rumors (of unknown quality) that he was a bad locker room presence. May or may not be true, but I did notice that when he went to Calgary he complained that the Ducks didn't use him right and that he couldn't produce with only 10-12 minutes of ice time (he got 16:27 per game).

And not only was he a poor player, but the circumstances of his signing made it a disaster. I'm not going to go into it further, but feel free to read my rather lengthy explanations for my Bertuzzi hate in these 2 threads. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=508639 http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=539732

Bertuzzi sucked, he made the team lazy, and he made Getzlaf a nonshooter. His points were largely a result of getting played with Getzlaf and Perry because he was a black hole on the 2nd line with anyone else. There also have been some rumors (of unknown quality) that he was a bad locker room presence. May or may not be true, but I did notice that when he went to Calgary he complained that the Ducks didn't use him right and that he couldn't produce with only 10-12 minutes of ice time (he got 16:27 per game).

And not only was he a poor player, but the circumstances of his signing made it a disaster. I'm not going to go into it further, but feel free to read my rather lengthy explanations for my Bertuzzi hate in these 2 threads. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=508639 http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=539732

I can appreciate your opinion, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy the fact that ONE player made the entire TEAM lazy. That's ********. I don't like the guy that much either, and yeah, he wasn't an amazing presence on the team, but I can count multiple times last season when he made great passes, and great plays. And if you think HE was lazy, that's one thing, but one player on a team doesn't make the rest of the team lazy. And furthermore, if it does, that's a major issue with the rest of the team in the first place. If I'm a good player, then whether a teammate plays lazy, or gives his all, I'm still gonna go out there and give 100%, because anything less is unacceptable on MY part.

I can appreciate your opinion, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy the fact that ONE player made the entire TEAM lazy. That's ********. I don't like the guy that much either, and yeah, he wasn't an amazing presence on the team, but I can count multiple times last season when he made great passes, and great plays. And if you think HE was lazy, that's one thing, but one player on a team doesn't make the rest of the team lazy. And furthermore, if it does, that's a major issue with the rest of the team in the first place. If I'm a good player, then whether a teammate plays lazy, or gives his all, I'm still gonna go out there and give 100%, because anything less is unacceptable on MY part.

Obobo is right for the most part. You can spit out stats all day long to suggest he wasn't THAT bad. This is one situation where stats don't tell the whole story. He was THAT bad...he's a talented player, so sure he made some pretty no-look passes, picked up some points, and started some plays that were reminiscent of his early Van days. However, aside from those very isolated incidents, he was a complete liability. His positioning, effort, and physical play were all lacking.

Honestly, I think it's pretty brutal of him to take the lifeline that Burke sent him, play absolutely terribly with it, and then turn around and suggest that he wasn't given a fair opportunity to produce. **** him.

Now as far as his affect on the rest of the team, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that he made the team lazy, per se. But things were certainly "off". Can you blame one player for that? Probably not. But, one player with a large personality CAN change the overall makeup of a team. The team's play definitely more resembled Bertuzzi than it did the juggernaut that won the Cup the year before.

Personally, I think it had more to with exhaustion, a rocky transition of leadership from Niedermayer-Selanne-Pronger to Pronger-Getzlaf-Perry, and very possibly, the emergence of Bertuzzi as a negative entity. That's just my best guess.

I can appreciate your opinion, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy the fact that ONE player made the entire TEAM lazy. That's ********. I don't like the guy that much either, and yeah, he wasn't an amazing presence on the team, but I can count multiple times last season when he made great passes, and great plays. And if you think HE was lazy, that's one thing, but one player on a team doesn't make the rest of the team lazy. And furthermore, if it does, that's a major issue with the rest of the team in the first place. If I'm a good player, then whether a teammate plays lazy, or gives his all, I'm still gonna go out there and give 100%, because anything less is unacceptable on MY part.
The making the team lazy is a stretch. I'm actually not entirely sure that I believe it, at least in that he's a sole factor of it. It's actually a little bit of a referential joke, referring to the "this team has been Bertuzzied" thread.

I do think Bertuzzi's presence did rub off onto Getzlaf though. The "never shoot even if you have an open net" mentality. Notice that Getzlaf had 185 shots in 08 compared to 203 shots in 07, despite over 4:30 more ice time per game. And I do suspect that Bertuzzi was at least a partial contributing factor to the team's lack of drive and hunger, even if most of it had to do with Cup hangover, media distraction with Selanne and Niedermayer, short offseason + exhaustion, and Pronger as a captain vs Niedermayer.

Did we mention Selanne is likely signing at a huge discount (again)?
Nobody else gets that value.

Any idea as to how much Selenne is expected to sign for??

The way I see it even if you dump Schneider without taking back any salary you'll be left with only 1 million dollars to give to Selenne unless you're able to dump Marchant without taking any salary back as well and that'll leave you with up to 3 million dollars to offer Selenne.

So with that being said how much do you think Selenne will sign for??

Any idea as to how much Selenne is expected to sign for??

The way I see it even if you dump Schneider without taking back any salary you'll be left with only 1 million dollars to give to Selenne unless you're able to dump Marchant without taking any salary back as well and that'll leave you with up to 3 million dollars to offer Selenne.

So with that being said how much do you think Selenne will sign for??

From Helene Elliot's LA Times article today:

"Looking at some of the teams and what they plan to start the season with I'm amazed, astonished, you pick the adjective, bewildered, that he wasn't claimed," Burke said. "But those teams have to deal with those issues, not me."

His own concerns are weighty enough. Burke won't re-sign Selanne while Schneider is on the payroll and the Ducks are $3 million over the salary cap -- even if that means losing the Finnish winger.

"I don't intend to increase the pressure to make a deal by adding to payroll between now and the start of the year," Burke said.

"We'll probably deal with it sequentially. We're aware that other teams have talked to Teemu and if that means that he can't wait for us, then that's what would happen."


*******, Burke is full of himself.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-ducks18-2008sep18,0,2548860.story

So with that being said how much do you think Selenne will sign for??

Money shouldn't be a problem for Selanne. Should the Ducks get under the cap, he'd (I'd recon) sign any contract Burke offered as long as it had an NTC included.

Money shouldn't be a problem for Selanne. Should the Ducks get under the cap, he'd (I'd recon) sign any contract Burke offered as long as it had an NTC included.

So he'd be willing to sign for as little as 1 million dollars??

Uhh, yeah sure why not. Remember that the NTC holds some value as well.

Uhh, yeah sure why not. Remember that the NTC holds some value as well.

1 Million + bonuses, maybe. 1 million total, no freakin' way. 4M total is more like it.

From Helene Elliot's LA Times article today:

"Looking at some of the teams and what they plan to start the season with I'm amazed, astonished, you pick the adjective, bewildered, that he wasn't claimed," Burke said. "But those teams have to deal with those issues, not me."

His own concerns are weighty enough. Burke won't re-sign Selanne while Schneider is on the payroll and the Ducks are $3 million over the salary cap -- even if that means losing the Finnish winger.

"I don't intend to increase the pressure to make a deal by adding to payroll between now and the start of the year," Burke said.

"We'll probably deal with it sequentially. We're aware that other teams have talked to Teemu and if that means that he can't wait for us, then that's what would happen."


*******, Burke is full of himself.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-ducks18-2008sep18,0,2548860.story

Full of himself? The man is being honest and rational in those quotes. Can't sign Teemu until Schneider is gone. I'd he's just doing his job.

1 Million + bonuses, maybe. 1 million total, no freakin' way. 4M total is more like it.
I believe bonuses count towards the cap this year.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16805

Schnieder for Armstrong? I don't see how this will help out our cap situation but I guess its better than having to trade a first rounder.

A cap hit of 1.5 million for Armstrong, saving us about 4.1.

Because we need more 3rd/4th liners?

Although the sad thing is he may see time on our 2nd line depending on Morrison.

Full of himself? The man is being honest and rational in those quotes. Can't sign Teemu until Schneider is gone. I'd he's just doing his job.

Specifically the part about how he thinks other GMs are stupid for not wanting to pick up his trash.

Burke better be walking around with a bottle of Astroglide in his pocket at all times, because when he gets screwed, it's not going to be gentle...

If he deals Schnieder straight up for Armstrong or even adds a 3rd or something with it....I will be pleased this thing is over and we still have a #1 pick and everyone on the roster.

I can appreciate your opinion, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy the fact that ONE player made the entire TEAM lazy. That's ********. I don't like the guy that much either, and yeah, he wasn't an amazing presence on the team, but I can count multiple times last season when he made great passes, and great plays. And if you think HE was lazy, that's one thing, but one player on a team doesn't make the rest of the team lazy. And furthermore, if it does, that's a major issue with the rest of the team in the first place. If I'm a good player, then whether a teammate plays lazy, or gives his all, I'm still gonna go out there and give 100%, because anything less is unacceptable on MY part.

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole on Obobo's part, but it's undeniable that Bertuzzi was a tempo killer. He was a dead-weight anchor on the Getzlaf line - holding the puck too long - passing up easy shots and missing shots he should bury. It was an awful gamble by Burke to sign him, but I give Burke credit for cutting his losses and moving on.

Update : Schneider will NOT be at camp....

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/ducks-season-camp-2162171-players-schneider

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16805

Schnieder for Armstrong? I don't see how this will help out our cap situation but I guess its better than having to trade a first rounder.

I could see Schneider + Marchant + pick for Armstrong. This clears plenty of room to resign Selanne. LA gets a big blue line boost and a speedier 3rd/4th line center. The debate is going to be about the pick.

I could see Schneider + Marchant + pick for Armstrong. This clears plenty of room to resign Selanne. LA gets a big blue line boost and a speedier 3rd/4th line center. The debate is going to be about the pick.

I really doubt Lombardi would take both Schneider and Marchant unless we do end up sending a 1st his way which I also really doubt.

If Anaheim takes Armstrong's salary back then I think Ryan will start out in the minors as has been mentioned.....I simply cant find a reason that anyone would take Marchant's contract unless Burke actually pays a team to take him off his hands.

I wonder if Atlanta might be an option. They're on the low side of the cap, and Marchant's as good an option as any center they currently have to play with Kovalchuk. The possibility of a high(er) scoring year for Todd might also persuade him to waive his NTC in that case, this being a contract year.

edit - hell, forgot about Jason Williams. Why are all Williamses so forgettable?

If Anaheim takes Armstrong's salary back then I think Ryan will start out in the minors as has been mentioned.....I simply cant find a reason that anyone would take Marchant's contract unless Burke actually pays a team to take him off his hands.

The only people to mention that though have been us bloggers. Every quote from someone from the Ducks mentions Bobby as a key cog this year. It's really counter-productive to send him to the minors for cap purposes.

Having said that I don't think Derek Armstrong will be a Duck, at least not for longer than about five minutes. If he's acquired I imagine he'll be moved in a separate trade promptly. That or Marchant will be moved promptly which isn't likely considering his no-trade. The next 48 hours should be interesting.

The only people to mention that though have been us bloggers. Every quote from someone from the Ducks mentions Bobby as a key cog this year. It's really counter-productive to send him to the minors for cap purposes.

Having said that I don't think Derek Armstrong will be a Duck, at least not for longer than about five minutes. If he's acquired I imagine he'll be moved in a separate trade promptly. That or Marchant will be moved promptly which isn't likely considering his no-trade. The next 48 hours should be interesting.

Armstrong would be a lot easier to move considering his salary, but I wonder how willing teams will be to help Burke since that kind of seems like an issue....maybe that is unfounded however. That, and I dont think this is resolved in the next 48 hours as much as I would hope. God damn AEG and their cheapness.

I wonder if Atlanta might be an option. They're on the low side of the cap, and Marchant's as good an option as any center they currently have to play with Kovalchuk. The possibility of a high(er) scoring year for Todd might also persuade him to waive his NTC in that case, this being a contract year.

edit - hell, forgot about Jason Williams. Why are all Williamses so forgettable?

I think they want to give minutes to Brian Little as well...

Armstrong would be a lot easier to move considering his salary, but I wonder how willing teams will be to help Burke since that kind of seems like an issue....maybe that is unfounded however. That, and I dont think this is resolved in the next 48 hours as much as I would hope. God damn AEG and their cheapness.

I do. Any team that truly wants Schneider will want him for the start of camp. We've got two credible reporters saying so as well.

I do. Any team that truly wants Schneider will want him for the start of camp. We've got two credible reporters saying so as well.

I know of the *********** guy, who is the other?

I think they want to give minutes to Brian Little as well...
Doesn't mean they'd keep him there. What sad ass franchise. Poor Ilya.

I know of the *********** guy, who is the other?
Is *********** credible?

Anyways, Dan Wood had this to say.

Veteran defenseman Mathieu Schneider, whom the Ducks are attempting to trade for salary-cap reasons, will not report to training camp Friday morning at Honda Center.

“They have said something may be imminent, so there’s no point in coming,” said Pat Morris, Schneider’s agent. “He’s going to stay home through the weekend. Maybe something will get done.”

At least four teams have expressed interest in Schneider since he cleared waivers Wednesday. In order to move Schneider, the Ducks appear likely to have to either part with an additional asset - in the form of a draft pick, another player or a prospect - or else accept a player under contract in return. Should the Ducks take back a player, it would eat into the $5.625 million salary-cap savings they hope to gain by trading Schneider.

damn AEG and their cheapness.

We Kings fans have been saying this for years.:rant:

Here's something to think about. Anyone wish Burke had traded Schneider away in December, back when we all thought he would? Instead of McDonald?

Pros: We don't have this offseason drama and possible loss of assets to make someone take Schneider (we'd actually be a little under cap, but not enough for Selanne). We still have Andy Mac to play with Teemu. Schneider probably had some trade value back then. It's not like Schneider helped us get further in the playoffs anyways (in fact, he actually looked kind of bad against Dallas). There might have been enough tagging room cleared to sign Perry before the offseason, in which case we may have even been able to sign him for less (I think his contract is a very slight overpay, or at the very least not as much of a discount as Getz). With less salary pressure, they might (but probably not) have been able to trade Bertuzzi instead of buying him out.

Cons: Schneider did help us in the reg season, we may have missed the playoffs altogether. McDonald probably would have continued sucking at least until Teemu returned.

I can't really think of other cons. So I guess I vote yes, I'd prefer having moved Schneider.

Here's something to think about. Anyone wish Burke had traded Schneider away in December, back when we all thought he would? Instead of McDonald?

Pros: We don't have this offseason drama and possible loss of assets to make someone take Schneider (we'd actually be a little under cap, but not enough for Selanne). We still have Andy Mac to play with Teemu. Schneider probably had some trade value back then. It's not like Schneider helped us get further in the playoffs anyways (in fact, he actually looked kind of bad against Dallas). There might have been enough tagging room cleared to sign Perry before the offseason, in which case we may have even been able to sign him for less (I think his contract is a very slight overpay, or at the very least not as much of a discount as Getz). With less salary pressure, they might (but probably not) have been able to trade Bertuzzi instead of buying him out.

Cons: Schneider did help us in the reg season, we may have missed the playoffs altogether. McDonald probably would have continued sucking at least until Teemu returned.

I can't really think of other cons. So I guess I vote yes, I'd prefer having moved Schneider.


That certainly would have been preferrable to the current situation. If you recall at the time, Burke stated that he didn't want to move Schneider because they just signed him and it wouldn't be fair to Schneider and his family. Sometimes I wonder if Burke thinks he's a family planning counseler instead of a Hockey GM.

Having said that I don't think Derek Armstrong will be a Duck, at least not for longer than about five minutes. If he's acquired I imagine he'll be moved in a separate trade promptly.
I don't know alot about Armstrong, but if he's that easily movable (and can net a team a draft pick) - why don't the Kings just trade the player themselves? Doesn't make any sense they'd trade a player with value in a deal to get Schneider.

I don't know alot about Armstrong, but if he's that easily movable (and can net a team a draft pick) - why don't the Kings just trade the player themselves?

If they trade him to Anaheim isn't that essentially what they are doing?

Seriously though....Armstrong is a "decent" third line center. Nothing spectacular....but he does work hard. The reason he might be involved in the trade is because the Kings cannot absorb Schneider's full salary (because the team supposedly has a $40 million cash budget). Schneider will make $5.75 million and Armstrong will make $1.6 million so it would be a net gain of $4.15 million in salary for the Kings. This would put the Kings payroll at $39.2 million.

If they trade him to Anaheim isn't that essentially what they are doing?

Yes but if they traded him to *another* team - they'd likely get a mid-round draft pick for him. Then just swap Schneider + pick for a far lower lower round pick. This way the Kings end up with more than what they'd get from just trading Schneider for Armstrong (I'm assuming that's the trade that's going to happen).

I like Derek Armstrong, and I wouldn't mind him in a Ducks' uni, but I'm not sure how he'd fit. Seems a bit overkill for the fourth line...

I don't know alot about Armstrong, but if he's that easily movable (and can net a team a draft pick) - why don't the Kings just trade the player themselves? Doesn't make any sense they'd trade a player with value in a deal to get Schneider.

The Kings want Schneider but they also want the ability to trade him at the deadline for assets, if the Kings are out of the playoffs. Lombardi, if anything, has shown he is pretty good at asset management.

The Kings want Schneider but they also want the ability to trade him at the deadline for assets, if the Kings are out of the playoffs. Lombardi, if anything, has shown he is pretty good at asset management.

You have a typo there. You wrote "if" when you clearly should have written "when."

That certainly would have been preferrable to the current situation. If you recall at the time, Burke stated that he didn't want to move Schneider because they just signed him and it wouldn't be fair to Schneider and his family. Sometimes I wonder if Burke thinks he's a family planning counseler instead of a Hockey GM.

I am starting to wonder that too. Yeah it kind of sucks to have signed a guy and uproot him from his family but let's all keep in mind that these are guys making over FIVE MILLION DOLLARS a year to PLAY HOCKEY. There isn't a poster on this board that wouldn't take that deal... and if you don't like the business of the game and want to spend more time with your family... you RETIRE. Players don't even work the whole year round. If I was a GM I wouldn't be bending over backwards to make a multimillionaire more comfortable in his home life, unless it was someone who had an attitude like Teemu does... which seems to transcend the business of hockey.

The Kings want Schneider but they also want the ability to trade him at the deadline for assets, if the Kings are out of the playoffs. Lombardi, if anything, has shown he is pretty good at asset management.

What you are saying is true......but what I think he is getting at is why not trade a draft pick for Schneider and then trade Armstrong to another team for a pick....that way Dean would get additional assets. Especially if the Ducks do not intend on keeping Armstrong.

That certainly would have been preferrable to the current situation. If you recall at the time, Burke stated that he didn't want to move Schneider because they just signed him and it wouldn't be fair to Schneider and his family. Sometimes I wonder if Burke thinks he's a family planning counseler instead of a Hockey GM.
Burke did mention not wanting to move Schneider's family and that he was a just-signed FA for not moving him. But the bigger stated reason was that Burke wanted D as the backbone of the team. You forgot to mention the main reason.

What you are saying is true......but what I think he is getting at is why not trade a draft pick for Schneider and then trade Armstrong to another team for a pick....that way Dean would get additional assets. Especially if the Ducks do not intend on keeping Armstrong.

I would think the Ducks would keep Armstrong and then also would have to move Marchant and his salary to make room for Selanne

just a hunch

Or they sign Selanne for cheap for whatever they have left this yr and then give him a 2 yr deal and take the cap hit next

meh

The making the team lazy is a stretch. I'm actually not entirely sure that I believe it, at least in that he's a sole factor of it. It's actually a little bit of a referential joke, referring to the "this team has been Bertuzzied" thread.

I do think Bertuzzi's presence did rub off onto Getzlaf though. The "never shoot even if you have an open net" mentality. Notice that Getzlaf had 185 shots in 08 compared to 203 shots in 07, despite over 4:30 more ice time per game. And I do suspect that Bertuzzi was at least a partial contributing factor to the team's lack of drive and hunger, even if most of it had to do with Cup hangover, media distraction with Selanne and Niedermayer, short offseason + exhaustion, and Pronger as a captain vs Niedermayer.

Fair enough, I can respect what you guys are saying. I agree that things were certainly "off" last year, I just didn't want all of that being put on Bertuzzi. I don't like the guy much either, but for the gamble Burke took on taking him, he could've been much worse is what I was saying.

And as for his comments that he made after signing with Calgary (which are news to me): ******* him. He's whiny cus he was moved off of a great team.

Fair enough, I can respect what you guys are saying. I agree that things were certainly "off" last year, I just didn't want all of that being put on Bertuzzi. I don't like the guy much either, but for the gamble Burke took on taking him, he could've been much worse is what I was saying.

And as for his comments that he made after signing with Calgary (which are news to me): ******* him. He's whiny cus he was moved off of a great team.
I don't think he could have been worse. Although I guess you're kind of right if you're only referring to on the ice impact. But his contract and the fact that he was a gamble that had far too small odds to ever pay out plays at least as large a factor in why I hate the signing.

Yeah those comments were in his arrival press conference, so it's not surprising you missed it. I didn't notice it until Dan Wood's Ducks blog mentioned it. He didn't really complain, but there is a complete lack of accountability.http://flames.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=380843&page=NewsPage&service=page
In Anaheim I thought it was going to be a good opportunity but I just didn't fit into the mode there with ice time - playing 10 to 12 minutes a game, it's kind of hard to perform.

edit: I dug up some more waah comments from a different article. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080707.wsptbert7/BNStory/Sports/columnists/
I thought that coming in there, I thought I was going to get an opportunity of playing with (Ryan) Getzlaf and (Corey) Perry and I only played a handful of games with them," said Bertuzzi. "I think the writing was on the wall in the end.

I don't think he could have been worse. Although I guess you're kind of right if you're only referring to on the ice impact. But his contract and the fact that he was a gamble that had far too small odds to ever pay out plays at least as large a factor in why I hate the signing.

Yeah those comments were in his arrival press conference, so it's not surprising you missed it. I didn't notice it until Dan Wood's Ducks blog mentioned it. He didn't really complain, but there is a complete lack of accountability.http://flames.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=380843&page=NewsPage&service=page


edit: I dug up some more waah comments from a different article. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080707.wsptbert7/BNStory/Sports/columnists/

Bertuzzi got 16:27 per game, 7th among forwards. Only a few seconds less than Chris Kunitz, who I thought managed to be a useful hockey player.

D-bag also had 12:48 in ES TOI, 6th among forwards, slightly more than Kunitz...who again badly outplayed him. And it wasn't like Kunitz had his best season or anything.

Burke did mention not wanting to move Schneider's family and that he was a just-signed FA for not moving him. But the bigger stated reason was that Burke wanted D as the backbone of the team. You forgot to mention the main reason.

Yes, I remember Burke stating that he preferred having a stronger back-end since that was the "blueprint" in their stanley cup run. I didn't percieve that as being the primary reason for not wanting to trade him versus McDonald although he did indeed cite this as being the first reason. My larger point is that Burke seems overly accommodating/magnanimous to individual player issues ("take all the time you need Scotty", the promise to Bryz to get him a starting job, the promise to Hilller to move him up to the NHL, not wanting to uproot Schneider and his family) often to the detriment of the team. While it's certainly nice of Burke to be thoughtful and respectful to his players, his job isn't to be a loveable camp counseler, but a hockey GM -- which requires him to act first and foremost in the best interest of the team versus the individual. Given the Ducks problems scoring goals, it wasn't in the best interest of the team to keep Schneider versus McDonald IMO. Burke obviously has had a change of heart on this as well.

Yes, I remember Burke stating that he preferred having a stronger back-end since that was the "blueprint" in their stanley cup run. I didn't percieve that as being the primary reason for not wanting to trade him versus McDonald although he did indeed cite this as being the first reason. My larger point is that Burke seems overly accommodating/magnanimous to individual player issues ("take all the time you need Scotty", the promise to Bryz to get him a starting job, the promise to Hilller to move him up to the NHL, not wanting to uproot Schneider and his family) often to the detriment of the team. While it's certainly nice of Burke to be thoughtful and respectful to his players, his job isn't to be a loveable camp counseler, but a hockey GM -- which requires him to act first and foremost in the best interest of the team versus the individual. Given the Ducks problems scoring goals, it wasn't in the best interest of the team to keep Schneider versus McDonald IMO. Burke obviously has had a change of heart on this as well.

I agree. I want Andy Mac back. I watched an old game on videoGoogle and he was playing. Sucks that he's gone...

BTW I find it funny that you say that Burke is overly thoughtful and respectful to individual players' needs, often to the detriment of the team (which I agree with), and yet there are so many Burke-bashers on this board lately claiming Burke is an as*h***. I have always thought he was very kind to his players, but I guess that's up for debate.