Canada v. the World

So a random discussion ended in the debate in Canada v. the World and who would win. For gamesminship (sp?) let's say you get to play video game status in 5 players and a goalie. Who wins and who is your line-up?

Heatley - Crosby - Iginla
Pronger - Phaneuf
Brodeur




Zetterberg - Malkin - Ovechkin
Lidstrom - Chara
Nabokov




Pretty close to me.

It's the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines where the Worlds depth would give them an edge.

Canada is the best hockey nation, but it's NOT that good.

The all-World team would be absolutely LOADED.

Canada is the best hockey nation, but it's NOT that good.

The all-World team would be absolutely LOADED.

Agree. Canada would be beaten.

its impossible to say who is better when you choose 10 best players in the world.

Vinny - Crosby - Iginla
Pronger - Phaneuf
Brodeur


Ovechkin - Malkin - Hossa
Lidstrom - Chara
Nabokov

Canada is worse then Russia, why would it take the world to beat them?

It think this question smacks of arrogance, but ok.....

Canada is worse then Russia, why would it take the world to beat them?
dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?

dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?

We did lose to Russia 2 years ago, and had most of our best...

everyone always seems to forget that it takes time to build chemistry. teams stacked with players who have never played with eachother don't build chemistry in 2 weeks. teams that are about half nhlers and half that have been playing on national teams together for a year+ do.

Canada wins if Brodeur is in net, otherwise no. ;)

Canada wins if Brodeur is in net, otherwise no. ;)

nabokov might have something to say about that ;)

dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?

Like against sweden in the olympics 06?

Like against sweden in the olympics 06?
was it the same coach back then?
cuz i guess it turns out that Canada plays better without all-star players :dunno:

dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?

If I remember correctly, the 'real' Canada was shutout 3 times the last tournament they played in.

There's always one explaining that the 'real' Canada was never there when Canada loses a game...

Please, all the teams have to do with the best available material, it's not that hard to understand.

Russia...evidently.

There's always one explaining that the 'real' Canada was never there when Canada loses a game...

Please, all the teams have to do with the best available material, it's not that hard to understand.

Exactly.. That's why I hate Canada in hockey. Even the Brazilians are not as cocky when it comes to Soccer.

Exactly.. That's why I hate Canada in hockey. Even the Brazilians are not as cocky when it comes to Soccer.
if Brazilians would've also invented soccer, maybe they would've been as cocky! :sarcasm:

if Brazilians would've also invented soccer, maybe they would've been as cocky! :sarcasm:

Canadians invented Basketball, I don't see them being a power in that sport. Point being that just because they invented something (although other forms of the sport were invented in europe), that doesn't necessarily make them the best.

I don't get why everyone goes nuts about 2006 like it's supposed to be the end all argument considering they won in 02. Yes, it was a poor team, but that doesn't diminish Canada's talent in any way. That's like saying the Spanish are a poor soccer nation because they've never won a world cup or a euro.

canad's potential top forwards and defense
lecavallier
crosby
iginla
staal
nash
getzlaf
heatley
morrow
bergeron
gagne
thornton
sakic
st louis
doan
toews


pronger
phaneuf
regier
boyle
campbell
keith/burns/niedermeyer/bouwmeester take your pick

brodeur/luongo/turco

i'd love to see the games whatever the result.
anyone come up with a world roster?

Full roster competition the world has more depth and would take the game.

5 on 5 with goaltenders would be a bit harder, but I still give the edge to world.

if Brazilians would've also invented soccer, maybe they would've been as cocky! :sarcasm:

The Canadians invented hockey? Any more nonsense news today?

dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?

Yeah, like it was the REAL Russia there with half of a team coming from RSL.

I mean, who cares bout missing Malkin and Datsyuk, just 2 top 5 centers in the world and Zubov/Gonchar, just 2 top 5 offensive defenders in the world. How bout Kovalev?

I bet, that a
Datsyuk-Malkin-Kovalev
Zubov-Gonchar
Bryzgalov

starting 6 would be as good as anything in the world.

Ovechkin-Malkin-Lehtinen
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Jagr
Kovalchuk-MKoivu-Hossa
Elias-Drury-Parise

Lidström-Rafalski
Chara-Kaberle
Timonen-Markov

Lundqvist
Kiprusoff
Nabokov

Canadians invented Basketball, I don't see them being a power in that sport. Point being that just because they invented something (although other forms of the sport were invented in europe), that doesn't necessarily make them the best.

I hear "Canadians invented basketball" all the time. Dr. Naismith was a Canadian expatriate living in the US when he invented the game. Not exactly invented by Canadians in the way that phrase implies. Just saying.

I mean, who cares bout missing Malkin and Datsyuk, just 2 top 5 centers in the world and Zubov/Gonchar, just 2 top 5 offensive defenders in the world. How bout Kovalev?

I bet, that a
Datsyuk-Malkin-Kovalev
Zubov-Gonchar
Bryzgalov

starting 6 would be as good as anything in the world.

Are you gonna tell me Russia is missing more all-star players than Canada??? what about Crosby, Thornton, Iginla, Niedermayer, Pronger, Campbell ...
also, Sweden has their best players in Red Wings right now, so I am pretty sure they would be battling Canada instead of Russia..
now, i don't even wanna argue about that...

and Bryz > Nabby? really???

Canada is worse then Russia, why would it take the world to beat them?

Well...Since 2002 we could almost call that a domination
World Championship
2003-Gold
2004-Gold
2005-Silver
2006-4th
2007-Gold
2008-Silver

Olympics
2002-Gold
2006-Lost in quater finals to Russia

World Cup
2004-Gold

World Junior Championship
2002-Silver
2003-Silver
2004-Silver
2005-Gold
2006-Gold
2007-Gold
2008-Gold

Are you gonna tell me Russia is missing more all-star players than Canada??? what about Crosby, Thornton, Iginla, Niedermayer, Pronger, Campbell ...
also, Sweden has their best players in Red Wings right now, so I am pretty sure they would be battling Canada instead of Russia..
now, i don't even wanna argue about that...

and Bryz > Nabby? really???


Like stated many times on this board, Canada had basically all those players in Torino and served up a bowl of spaghetti.

Like stated many times on this board, Canada had basically all those players in Torino and served up a bowl of spaghetti.
i know that.. he was just comparing "real" russia, so i decided to reply

btw, ima ask again - is Canada having the same coach as they did when they had the all-star players roster and lost?

Are you gonna tell me Russia is missing more all-star players than Canada??? what about Crosby, Thornton, Iginla, Niedermayer, Pronger, Campbell ...
also, Sweden has their best players in Red Wings right now, so I am pretty sure they would be battling Canada instead of Russia..
now, i don't even wanna argue about that...

and Bryz > Nabby? really???

I just told you, that Russia is missing players, who can build a starting 6 which could compete with everyone in the world. I show you Malkin (2nd in points this season), Datsyuk(4th in points), Zubov (arguably a top3-defenseman of last 10 years behind Lidstrom and Pronger), Gonchar (2nd in points above defenseman), Kovalev(11th in points), Bryzgalov (10th in the league in Sv%) (lets not forget Volchenkov, 2nd in blocked shots in NHL, Frolov, Zherdev).

And, even better, you make pathetic statements about 2 top players Sweden is missing in Zetterberg and Lidstrom (i mean, Franzen, Holmstrom, Samuelson.. not exactly top tier talent) and set em above Russia.. sorry, its just laughable. This years Canada team played infront of its own crowd and lost to Russia which missed their both 2 by a huge margin top centers , with a half of a team coming out of RSL. Live with it.

Canadian Dream-team managed to lose to Russia 2006, and dont speak bout bad coaching, Russias tradition of bad coaching is simply bizarre.

Kovalev was available to team Russia this year. They didn't want him.

Kovalev was available to team Russia this year. They didn't want him.

Likely he would be on the team if he had been available earlier

Kovalev was available to team Russia this year. They didn't want him.

This is a question of chemistry. Radulov was also scratched most of the games. This is why all the Crosbys, Lecavaliers and Thorntons of the world are no garantie for a world championship.

This years Canada team played infront of its own crowd and lost to Russia which missed their both 2 by a huge margin top centers , with a half of a team coming out of RSL. Live with it.

Canadian Dream-team managed to lose to Russia 2006, and dont speak bout bad coaching, Russias tradition of bad coaching is simply bizarre.

Zubov - Hasn't played with Russia since 1997.

Remind me where Canada's top 3 centers were again? And their top RW and their top 2 goalies?

Lets get into Sweden now - No - Sundin, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Lidstrom, Sedin twins and we could go on.

There's so many things wrong with your post, EVERY team was missing players, you beat Canada and won the gold medal. Be proud of your team and celebrate it.

I like this team Canada way better than the so called "real" Canada in 06 when half the players didnt show up to play. Guys like Bertuzzi, Nash, Thornton, Richards didnt even give a half damned effort. St Louis, Sakic, and Iginla seemed like the only guys skating full on every shift. Then the horrible play of Pronger Regehr and some other guys.

At least this team Canada played a hard game. I'd rather see an inferior talented team Canada play their hearts out and lose in 2010 than take a team thats skilled enough to win but doesnt because they lack effort. I dont know about other people here, but I dont take much pride in the "they were good enough to win if they tried" arguement.

Zubov - Hasn't played with Russia since 1997.

Remind me where Canada's top 3 centers were again? And their top RW and their top 2 goalies?

Lets get into Sweden now - No - Sundin, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Lidstrom, Sedin twins and we could go on.

There's so many things wrong with your post, EVERY team was missing players, you beat Canada and won the gold medal. Be proud of your team and celebrate it.

This is not about the presumption that Russia is the only team missing players, never said that. I just tried to show that Russia is missing players like a lot of teams do, cause its laughable to say Russias team is stacked and Canadas not. Canada may miss their top 3 centers, but there is not a huge skill margin to guys like Spezza or Staal. Russia misses Malkin and Datsyuk, who are both on the level of Crosby/Thornton this season or even above it, and they have nobody even remotely close to their skill level (Fedorov played great but its not his skill or speed anymore, its the leadership).

Speaking bout Zubov - Fedorov hasnt played since 1990! So it doesnt mean anything.

And yes, Sweden does miss more than the Detroit players, i just reacted on the fact that just by adding them they would become better than Russia.

So there is nothing wrong with my list.

But something is wrong with yours - i`m not russian and its not my team. I just dont like the fact that Canada cant just take it like men and not cry around bout players missing while they probably havent even heard the names like Nikulin, Sushinsky, Zaripov from the RSL who all played for team Russia.

Zubov - Hasn't played with Russia since 1997.

He went on record saying that he would like to play for the NT recently, so...


Lets get into Sweden now - No - Sundin, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Lidstrom, Sedin twins and we could go on.


Sundin, well he is old. Could have been here, yes, but likely would have been the last tourney for him.

Sedins are not really the top-notch material. Many ppl on this WCh Swedish team should be taken over them for 2010.

It's reasonable to say that very team missed about 6-8 top players.

Winning these types of tournaments always come down to the same things: timely goaltending, opportunistic scoring, and chemistry. Virtually anyone can beat anyone amongst the top eight or so countries on any given day. Depth-wise, Canada will always be on top, but several squads can come up with "all-star" teams if they want to.

He went on record saying that he would like to play for the NT recently, so...



Sundin, well he is old. Could have been here, yes, but likely would have been the last tourney for him.

Sedins are not really the top-notch material. Many ppl on this WCh Swedish team should be taken over them for 2010.

It's reasonable to say that very team missed about 6-8 top players.

Do you think it is possible that Zubov may be black listed from the team because he refused to play in the past? Not argueing what you said just curious. I know if a Canadian player flat out refused to play they probably will not get a second chance.

Speaking bout Zubov - Fedorov hasnt played since 1990! So it doesnt mean anything.

NHL.com - Sergei Fedorov -

2001-2002 Russia Olympics
2004-2005 Russia W-Cup
So there is nothing wrong with my list.

I didn't say there was besides Zubov.

But something is wrong with yours - i`m not russian and its not my team. I just dont like the fact that Canada cant just take it like men and not cry around bout players missing while they probably havent even heard the names like Nikulin, Sushinsky, Zaripov from the RSL who all played for team Russia.

I assumed. Does it matter? Not really, I'm just pointing out how it doesn't matter who Russia is missing because everyone else is missing talent as well.

Do you think it is possible that Zubov may be black listed from the team because he refused to play in the past? Not argueing what you said just curious. I know if a Canadian player flat out refused to play they probably will not get a second chance.

No, Bykov kept in touch with him and said many times that he could be invited

The world would probably win most of the time (but not every time).

Exactly.. That's why I hate Canada in hockey. Even the Brazilians are not as cocky when it comes to Soccer.

Funny, it seems that for every cocky Canadian fan in this thread there's another pointing out our past failures. There's no need to generalize.

P.S. There's no such place as "Santa Clara" in Canada. The OP isn't in from this country.

But something is wrong with yours - i`m not russian and its not my team. I just dont like the fact that Canada cant just take it like men and not cry around bout players missing while they probably havent even heard the names like Nikulin, Sushinsky, Zaripov from the RSL who all played for team Russia.

Am I missing something? There are plenty of Canadians congratulating Russia on a well earned win in the Gold Medal Post-GDT.

Take off your Canada hate glasses.

The Canadians invented hockey? Any more nonsense news today?

Without European Hurley/Field Hockey/Shinty/Bandy Ice Hockey in it's current form probably wouldn't exist but the game that's played today most definatly does have it's origns in Canada. Native American Lacrosse also influenced the sport that's played today.

Saying Ice Hockey was invented in Europe is like saying Baseball or North American Football was too. Clearly Baseball wouldn't exist without Rounders, stoolball, and or Cricket (or Oina, Lapta) but the sport is uniquely American.

Do you think it is possible that Zubov may be black listed from the team because he refused to play in the past? Not argueing what you said just curious. I know if a Canadian player flat out refused to play they probably will not get a second chance.

No, dont think so. They let Fedorov play, they wouldve let Zubov play too. Semin has also played after being thrown out of the team last year because of coming 2 hours late to the training camp.

He went on record saying that he would like to play for the NT recently, so...

I would like a quote, because from 1997-2008 is a very long time to not play for a country.


Sundin, well he is old. Could have been here, yes, but likely would have been the last tourney for him.

Sedins are not really the top-notch material. Many ppl on this WCh Swedish team should be taken over them for 2010.

It's reasonable to say that very team missed about 6-8 top players.

Sedin's may not be that great, but they do play fairly well and would be considered and could take a shot at it. They are underrated, they play an awesome cycle system.

And as for Sundin, nobody knows if he had decided to go whether it would have been his last or not, it could have easily gone either way. (Zubov is a year older)

NHL.com - Sergei Fedorov -

2001-2002 Russia Olympics
2004-2005 Russia W-Cup


I didn't say there was besides Zubov.



I assumed. Does it matter? Not really, I'm just pointing out how it doesn't matter who Russia is missing because everyone else is missing talent as well.

Sorry, didnt know Fedorov played in the Olympics in 2002. But please dont try to let it look like i am the one who started the whole "my team is missing top talent"-thing, this was the statement to a canadian fan whining around about missing players, i just wanted to show that Russia missed top talent too. So i dont understand what youre critising about my post?

What people don't understand is that in this tournament you need timely goaltending and chemistry. If you go individually [accomplishments in NHL], there is no doubt Canada is in top.

We were missing a lot players but that's not the reason we lost. Our defense games was just not there; Last year it was even though there weren't big names......

Sorry, didnt know Fedorov played in the Olympics in 2002. But please dont try to let it look like i am the one who started the whole "my team is missing top talent"-thing, this was the statement to a canadian fan whining around about missing players, i just wanted to show that Russia missed top talent too. So i dont understand what youre critising about my post?

I didn't look at what you were quoting, I took the post for what is was worth, I'll go back and read the quote.

Am I missing something? There are plenty of Canadians congratulating Russia on a well earned win in the Gold Medal Post-GDT.

Take off your Canada hate glasses.



Without European Hurley/Field Hockey/Shinty/Bandy Ice Hockey in it's current form probably wouldn't exist but the game that's played today most definatly does have it's origns in Canada. Native American Lacrosse also influenced the sport that's played today.

Saying Ice Hockey was invented in Europe is like saying Baseball or North American Football was too. Clearly Baseball wouldn't exist without Rounders, stoolball, and or Cricket (or Oina, Lapta) but the sport is uniquely American.

I have no hate glasses, i reacted to some users here. I shouldve written "certain canadian fans" instead of "Canada", my bad.

For me Ice Hockey is invented in Europe cause its just an upgraded form of bandy and was played there since centuries. And yes, baseball is just a form of Lapta or Cricket, like Ameirican Football is Rugby with helmets. It all became popular in america in the current form and came back to Europe, but it is still pretty much what it always was... hockey is still not much different from bandy and American Football is not far apart from Rugby.

I would like a quote, because from 1997-2008 is a very long time to not play for a country.


http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?33312

http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?123767

http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?33312

http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?123767

Thanks, I guess I was wrong on Zubov.

Ovechkin> Crosby

Malkin>Vinny

Kovalchuk> Ignila (in 2010)

Top 3 Russians are better then Top 3 Canadians.

Ovechkin> Crosby

Malkin>Vinny

Kovalchuk> Ignila (in 2010)

Top 3 Russians are better then Top 3 Canadians.

You don't know that first of all.

Secondly, who's to say that this will all match up in every tournament. Look at Canada in Torino, they had an all star line up and they put in one of the poorest performances I have ever seen.

It think this question smacks of arrogance, but ok.....
I absolutely agree with that ... very arrogant view.

Canada is worse then Russia, why would it take the world to beat them?
... the quick answer !

dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?
1) Russia had simple and unimportant guys like Datsyuk, Gonchar, Malkin and other "2nd or 3rd" level players missing !

then :
We did lose to Russia 2 years ago, and had most of our best...

+ i remeber Canada loosing to the team of my country, namel Switzerland. I believe that Switzerland was playing with no NHL player (or maybe 1). Only guys from our Swiss national league. Canada was with its "big team" as you name it.

So to answer your question ... maybe a team of Swiss hockey players would be good enough to beat them like they already did 2 years ago ?

Do not take it bad dude, but come back to ground.

in conclusion, in order to win, you need a great "team", not a bunch of high profile names on a paper. Canada's 2006 team was a lot stronger on paper than this year's, but this year's was simply better, even if Chimera was on it.

Lol no the team this year wasn't better, not anywhere near the normal canadian team.

Just the fact that Cam Ward is in the net is enough.

/Thread.

here we go again bashing canada thread.
god i love these.
we are cocky. get over it.

here we go again bashing canada thread.
god i love these.
we are cocky. get over it.


That's why alot of people dislike you. Get over it.

Funny, it seems that for every cocky Canadian fan in this thread there's another pointing out our past failures. There's no need to generalize.Amen, and it always amazes me how some people don't understand this.

As for Canada vs the World: as someone earlier said, the world would have just too much depth in their 3rd and 4th lines.

Canada has nothing to fear, they will continue to produce talent but other countries are catching up on them, so beware! It's good that they're are more competitive teams, its good for hockey.

Btw, Cam Ward is know Roberto Luongo....

Winning these types of tournaments always come down to the same things: timely goaltending, opportunistic scoring, and chemistry. Virtually anyone can beat anyone amongst the top eight or so countries on any given day. Depth-wise, Canada will always be on top, but several squads can come up with "all-star" teams if they want to.

Thank you.

It always annoys me when people cite 1 game elimination tournaments as a basis for anything substantial.

It always annoys me when people cite 1 game elimination tournaments as a basis for anything substantial.

You have a point in there. But with 1 game elimination there is always this extra tension in play which isn't really that big in best of seven series (not including the games where elimination is possible).

"Do or Die" is always fun (or agony) to watch.

That's why alot of people dislike you. Get over it.


exactly. i live in canada now, and all these don cherry clones need a large dose of humble pie. thank you russia, for serving it. i thought they'd learn the lesson in the olympics where quite a few countries played better, but no. cockyness never got anyone anywhere.

Thank you.

It always annoys me when people cite 1 game elimination tournaments as a basis for anything substantial.

Is 7 games enough though? I mean, I've seen allot of 7 games series where it have come down to one team hitting a post while the other team scoring et c. Like series where the "wrong" team have won... Where do you draw the line? President Trophy and SC the same year?

IMO the Russians are good right now. They are 10x as physical as they where like only 5 years ago. You can notice it on all levels. Like in the Euro Hockey Tour when there is only RSL and SEL players Russia at times physically dominates Sweden.

15 years of shame have finally got them to change, basically.

As a Swede I've basically allways felt -- since I started watching hockey -- that Canada was the team to watch out for, while everyone else from Russia to the Czech to Finland was on par with us in Sweden. As a Swede now, I feel that Russia is atleast getting allot closer to Canada and while putting some distance between them and the rest of the countrys in Europe.

Ovechkin> Crosby

Malkin>Vinny

Kovalchuk> Ignila (in 2010)

Top 3 Russians are better then Top 3 Canadians.

kovalchuk is NOT better than iginla.

kovalchuk is NOT better than iginla.

also, Ovechkin is NOT better than Crosby.

I don't know about the result but a team with this lineup is kinda hard to beat..

Heatley-Crosby-Iginla
Gagné-Lecavalier-Nash
St-Louis-Getzlaf-Doan
Morrow-Toews-Perry
(Richards-Spezza)

Pronger-Niedermayer (If he's still playing)
Phaneuf-Bouwmeester
Boyle-Campbell

World vs Canada match would go to world, easily.

Russia and Sweden could build better team even together. And when you put some individuals from Finland, Czehch and Slovakia to spice the soup... It´s no no for Canada.

Saying Ice Hockey was invented in Europe is like saying Baseball or North American Football was too. Clearly Baseball wouldn't exist without Rounders, stoolball, and or Cricket (or Oina, Lapta) but the sport is uniquely American.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/History_of_baseball_in_Canada

First ever documented baseball game took place on June 4, 1838 in Beachville, Ontario. Abner Doubleday is widely believed to have invented the game in 1839 in Coopperstown.

I don't know about the result but a team with this lineup is kinda hard to beat..

Heatley-Crosby-Iginla
Gagné-Lecavalier-Nash
St-Louis-Getzlaf-Doan
Morrow-Toews-Perry
(Richards-Spezza)

Pronger-Niedermayer (If he's still playing)
Phaneuf-Bouwmeester
Boyle-Campbell
Looks awefully similar to Torino 06 team...

also, Ovechkin is NOT better than Crosby.

Overchkin is a much more complete player that Crosby. He is faster, stronger, and a better scorer. The only thing Crosby may be better in is playmaking ability.

Crosby to me is like a poor man's Gretzky (Yes, I know, who wouldn't want one of those!).

I can also see that Crosby will likely run into a lot of injury problems, as he seems somewhat fragile in his frame. Ovechkin on the other hand is like a Bradley fighting vehicle. Sleek, strong, and deadly.

Ovechkin is the best player in the world ATM

Overchkin is a much more complete player that Crosby. He is faster, stronger, and a better scorer. The only thing Crosby may be better in is playmaking ability.

Crosby to me is like a poor man's Gretzky (Yes, I know, who wouldn't want one of those!).

I can also see that Crosby will likely run into a lot of injury problems, as he seems somewhat fragile in his frame. Ovechkin on the other hand is like a Bradley fighting vehicle. Sleek, strong, and deadly.

Crosby is better defensively, better along the boards, better on faceoffs, a much better passer and an all around better leader as we see now.

And no, Ovechkin isn't "faster". Maybe in terms of acceleration, but they're pretty even when it comes to speed.

dude - look at Canada players??? you really think that was the best Canada out there?
for some reason all of the NHL Canadian star players decided to ignore their national team... that's not good, man
thornton, iginla, phaneuf, pronger...... and list goes on and on
you really think the real Canada would've been beaten by anyone?

Yeah! That's why we win gold in the Olympics every time...wait...

Looks awefully similar to Torino 06 team...

It also looks like the 04 WC, and the 02 Oly.

I think Canada has done well since 2000, lots of gold and silvers in many levels of Hockey in both women's and men's in Jr and Sr.

Come 2010 I think we will win due to our program which has seen nothing but improvement (other then 06).

Further if Canada had played all it's best players who were not in the ployoffs, we might have seen a diffrent outcome. Still whats the point of "what if" in a tournement that really means squat to alot of people. Kudos to the Russians they played a good game.

Crosby is better defensively, better along the boards, better on faceoffs, a much better passer and an all around better leader as we see now.

And no, Ovechkin isn't "faster". Maybe in terms of acceleration, but they're pretty even when it comes to speed.

Maybe the word that I should have used is "explosive". Does that help?

BTW, Ovechkin hits a heck of a lot better/harder than Crosby. That comes to play when talking about being better along the boards and defensive play.

Maybe the word that I should have used is "explosive". Does that help?

BTW, Ovechkin hits a heck of a lot better/harder than Crosby. That comes to play when talking about being better along the boards and defensive play.

harder, yes.
better?

Crosby is much better along the boards at creating separation for himself. Just look how many penalties he draws compared to Ovechkin. Ovechkin plays with passion but his game is very predictable. You know what he's going to do before he does it, and as a defenseman I'd rather be assigned to him even if it means taking a few extra hits.

Canada is kind of the new Russia. The world unites to root against them. The attitudes in this thread play a large part in that.

I don't know about the result but a team with this lineup is kinda hard to beat..

Heatley-Crosby-Iginla
Gagné-Lecavalier-Nash
St-Louis-Getzlaf-Doan
Morrow-Toews-Perry
(Richards-Spezza)

Pronger-Niedermayer (If he's still playing)
Phaneuf-Bouwmeester
Boyle-Campbell

boyle? campbell? good and all but i dont see them on the team. and no thornton? hmm.

OK

you can choose from Slovak players (country ranked 8th in world) to world's roster:

Gaborik Demitra Hossa
Chara Visnovsky(I hope he will play better in years to come)

Canada vs. the World does not work. If you look at the top five from just about every country they are almost on par with each other in terms of skill. Slight edge to countries like Canada, Russia and probably Sweden.

Canada's strength is it's depth. The argument can be made that Canada's fourth line would be a second line on most teams. I would say if my fellow Canadians needed an ego booster supplying two teams would be more reasonable than one vs. the world. If you look at their potential rosters they are at the very least competitive for the gold.

CAN Team 1

Heatley-Spezza-Iginla
Gagné-Lecavalier-St.Louis
Morrow-Getzlaf-Doan
Savard-Toews-Perry

Pronger-Niedermayer
Phaneuf-Phillips
Boyle-Campbell

Luongo
Leclaire

CAN Team 2

E.Staal-Crosby-Nash
Ribeiro-Thornton-Cheechoo
Carter-M.Richards-Sharp
Kunitz-B.Richards-Horton

Redden-Bouwmeester
Green-Weber
Regher-Mitchell

Turco
Ward

Briere? Brodeur? Brewer? Roy? MacDonald? Marleau?

Although Team 2 is obviously leaner, they would certainly still be competitive. Most of these guys SHOULD be still playing at a high level by 2010. This list does not take into any consideration the players who still are developing (J.Staal, Lupul, Seabrook, Boyes, Gagner, Cobourn, Price, Turris etc.).

Again though, this list is just for kicks. Putting in two teams or playing one vs. the world defeats the purpose of these tournaments. The defeat by Russia should be humbling and more than anything help to defeat a bit of that superiority complex.

The world unites to root against them. The attitudes in this thread play a large part in that.

Amen.

IMO Canada, Russia and Sweden are 1 tiers (always able to win)

Finland 2 tiers :sarcasm: (always able to finnish second)

Czech, USA, Slovak 3 tiers (will always get beaten in the quarters)

IMO Canada, Russia and Sweden are 1 tiers (always able to win)

Finland 2 tiers :sarcasm: (always able to finnish second)

Czech, USA, Slovak 3 tiers (will always get beaten in the quarters)
I wouldn't say that. I don't know about the next decade, but during the last, Finland, Czech Rep and Slovakia iced some damn good teams...

Canada vs The world.

Pls deal with one country at a time first.
This thread is so arrogant in its nature.
It's not like Brazil vs the world in soccer (not even close)

also, Ovechkin is NOT better than Crosby.


right now? pleeeeease

This thread is so arrogant in its nature.


sure is. we can blame don cherry's influence, or the "it's our game" advertising. some canadians have been fooled by it and now they think:

a) only canadian players have a heart, nobody else has the muscle that pumps blood.

b) canada has the copyright to the game of ice hockey, and nobody has ever won against "real canada". nobody ever will either. there were no olympics in 1998 or 2006.

sure is. we can blame don cherry's influence, or the "it's our game" advertising. some canadians have been fooled by it and now they think:

a) only canadian players have a heart, nobody else has the muscle that pumps blood.

b) canada has the copyright to the game of ice hockey, and nobody has ever won against "real canada". nobody ever will either. there were no olympics in 1998 or 2006.

We represent over half of the players in the NHL, it's not arrogant to discuss whether or not we might be able to ice a team to compete against other professional players. I don't think we'd stack up, but it's worth discussing.

It's a thread, it's not a Canadian spitting in your face.

Please, Canadians understand that other countries have heart and that we won't win every tournament, but feel free to continue to proliferate this stereotype so you can continue your hate-on for our country.

We represent over half of the players in the NHL, it's not arrogant to discuss whether or not we might be able to ice a team to compete against other professional players. I don't think we'd stack up, but it's worth discussing.

It's a thread, it's not a Canadian spitting in your face.

Please, Canadians understand that other countries have heart and that we won't win every tournament, but feel free to continue to proliferate this stereotype so you can continue your hate-on for our country.

You have over half of the players because the league is in north america, and the American's really don't give a damn about hockey in the big picture.

Don't kid yourself.

You have over half of the players because the league is in north america, and the American's really don't give a damn about hockey in the big picture.

Don't kid yourself.

Where do the majority of the best players from Europe play?

Don't kid yourself.

this thread is not arogant.
some canadians just missing facts..

the AHL all star game every year is Canada vs the world, isn't it?

Right. You've got Sens fans who think Alfredsson is the best player in the world, Leaf fans who think Sundin is... Lidstrom is often called the best defenceman in the league.
I for one didn't like seeing Canada lose, but I was happy to see Russia win just because they cared so much. Ovechkin is quickly becoming a lot of people's favourite player, a lot of Canadians prefer Malkin to Crosby etc etc.
I don't see why people get offended, is there really another country out there where hockey is what it is to Canadians? Most countries have soccer/football, other sports dividing their top tier athletes. In Canada, the top athletes are almost all in Hockey.

Wow I never realized Fins had this inferiority complex before.

finns are well known to be modest and humble. not big fans of blowing your own horn. no wonder some like to point out arrogance.

Most canadians enjoy and respect finish hockey.

most finns like canadian hockey. i sure do too, i just don't like the arrogance of some fans. you don't have to love hooligans to respect british soccer. get what i mean?


It's too bad, however, that we can't voice our opinions without being labeled "arrogant" homers. If we didn't enjoy so much success on the international scene I wonder if our arrogance would bother anyone?

if i voice an arrogant opinion and someone calls it arrogant, it's not really that sad...it's more like, correct. no? and yes, it would still bother peple, but at least everyone would think it's just sarcasm if you sucked and still were cocky (why did i start humming "oh say can you see, by the dawns early light..." at this point?).

Canada is kind of the new Russia. The world unites to root against them. The attitudes in this thread play a large part in that.

Yea I agree. Russia still has more mystique than any other team but Canada is definatley the one team that everyone hates right now.

Where do the majority of the best players from Europe play?

Don't kid yourself.

A good portion of enforcers/role players are Canadians though. These guys most definatley do not more talent than the RSL players that play for Russia for example.

A good portion of enforcers/role players are Canadians though. These guys most definatley do not more talent than the RSL players that play for Russia for example.

Here's the thought process:

- This thread is about one Canadian line vs. one World line
- Most of the best players in the world play in the NHL
- Most NHLers are Canadians

Therefore, this thread is valid and not arrogant.

We're not talking about icing five teams (where more marginal Canadian NHLers might rear their ugly heads), we're talking about one.

Note: 50% of the 2007-2008 Top 20 PPG forwards were Canadian

A good portion of enforcers/role players are Canadians though. These guys most definatley do not more talent than the RSL players that play for Russia for example.

Correct, if it weren't for the enforcers and role players Russia would make up the majority of players in the best hockey league in the world.

/sarcasm

Correct, if it weren't for the enforcers and role players Russia would make up the majority of players in the best hockey league in the world.

/sarcasm

Laraque, Brashera, Boogard, etc. aren't in the NHL because of their talent level or hockey sense that's for sure.

Laraque, Brashera, Boogard, etc. aren't in the NHL because of their talent level or hockey sense that's for sure.

Aside from the fact that Brash is American, Laraque and Boogard can still play the game. The day of the pure goon is gone, now you need to be accountable for your play in the ice.

Fact of the matter is, if you're trying to dress 4 lines from one country with NHL players you want to be Canada.

How they would stack up against the world would be interesting, but it would be a competitive game. For fun say each team had time to train and gel, have some exhibition games, etc... While other countries could also ice competitive teams, skill wise its hard to argue the best team wouldn't come from Canada. That isn't homerisim, or arrogance, thats just how it is.

Where it gets real interesting would be how systems and coaching styles affect those teams.

Where do the majority of the best players from Europe play?

Don't kid yourself.

But if the NHL just happend to be in lets say Russia, Do u still think that over 50% would be canadians? :p

I doubt that.
Very much.

But if the NHL just happend to be in lets say Russia, Do u still think that over 50% would be canadians? :p

I doubt that.
Very much.

Well now we have to look into the reasons why the NHL is not in Russia, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, or Norway. We should also look into the reason the RSL, SEL, or Finish leagues aren't the NHL's equal.

The NHL is in North America because it is.

It is made up of over 50% Canadians because it is.

It is the best league in the world because the talent level is higher then any other league in the world.

If it was in Russia it wouldn't be the NHL, and we'd all be on some hockey message board posting about our favorite "North American Hockey League" team.

It isn't just Canadians that make it great however. Not even close. What makes it great is that the best players in the world for the most part all want to play in it.

Aside from the fact that Brash is American, Laraque and Boogard can still play the game. The day of the pure goon is gone, now you need to be accountable for your play in the ice.

Fact of the matter is, if you're trying to dress 4 lines from one country with NHL players you want to be Canada.

How they would stack up against the world would be interesting, but it would be a competitive game. For fun say each team had time to train and gel, have some exhibition games, etc... While other countries could also ice competitive teams, skill wise its hard to argue the best team wouldn't come from Canada. That isn't homerisim, or arrogance, thats just how it is.

Where it gets real interesting would be how systems and coaching styles affect those teams.

The players who just won gold for Russia and play in Russia have more talent in one finger than Brash and Laraque. Brash btw lived most of his life in Canada.

Well now we have to look into the reasons why the NHL is not in Russia, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, or Norway. We should also look into the reason the RSL, SEL, or Finish leagues aren't the NHL's equal.

The NHL is in North America because it is.

It is made up of over 50% Canadians because it is.

It is the best league in the world because the talent level is higher then any other league in the world.

If it was in Russia it wouldn't be the NHL, and we'd all be on some hockey message board posting about our favorite "North American Hockey League" team.

It isn't just Canadians that make it great however. Not even close. What makes it great is that the best players in the world for the most part all want to play in it.

Let me refrase. Just pretend. Skip the fact that the league is actually in North America. Use your god given imagination!

IF NOT "THE BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD" WERE IN NORTH AMERICAN TERRITORY. DO YOU STILL THINK 50% of ALL PLAYERS WOULD BE CANADIANS?

I dont.

Well, let's look at the lineups and I'll tell you. I'm making actual rosters, not just picking all the best players.

Canada-Crosby, Lecavlier, Spezza, Iginla, Thornton, St. Louis, Boyes, Nash, Gagne, Getzlaf, Richards, Staal, Campbell, Phaneuf, Green, Burns, Coburn, Pronger, Bouwmeester, Luongo, Brodeur

World-Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Kopitar, Kovalev, Hossa, Frolov, Semen, Sykora, Lidstrom, Gonchar, Markov, Timonen, Kaberle, Johnson, Chara, Nabokov, Lundqvist.

World rapes completely

Let me refrase. Just pretend. Skip the fact that the league is actually in North America. Use your god given imagination!

IF NOT "THE BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD" WERE IN NORTH AMERICAN TERRITORY. DO YOU STILL THINK 50% of ALL PLAYERS WOULD BE CANADIANS?

I dont.

Are there players outside of the NHL that would crack the top 20 in scoring?

Because 50% of the top 20 scorers in the NHL were Canadian.

Let me refrase. Just pretend. Skip the fact that the league is actually in North America. Use your god given imagination!

IF NOT "THE BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD" WERE IN NORTH AMERICAN TERRITORY. DO YOU STILL THINK 50% of ALL PLAYERS WOULD BE CANADIANS?

I dont.

Hey if we're going to go that far let's use our imagination and imagine if there were no Canada! I bet then there wouldn't be so many in the NHL.

It's a flawed theory. If the NHL were any where else it wouldn't be the highest skilled league in the world. That 50% Canadian contingency must add some skill in order to garner it that title, else we would all be watching teams in the RSL, SEL, or Finish leagues and cheering them on instead.

Again, some of the best players aren't Canadian, it would be foolish to think they were with guys like Lidstrom, Malkin, Ovechkin, etc... (not that they aren't chalked full of elite players in Crosby, Thornton, Luongo, Brodeur, Neidermyer, Pronger, etc etc..) all floating around. However if I am going to make a full roster, Canada is imho the country that can assemble the most skilled full roster from the top guy right down the healthy scratches. Agree or disagree?

Are there players outside of the NHL that would crack the top 20 in scoring?

Because 50% of the top 20 scorers in the NHL were Canadian.


Well, I dont know about that. But then again, 4 of top6 scorers from europe, 6 of top10 from europe. Guess it rounds out to a 50%.

But if you look at the playoffs 4 of top5 from europe.. 10 of top20 from europe and only 7 from Canada.

Are there players outside of the NHL that would crack the top 20 in scoring?


uhhh...ovechkin and malkin just did, before they played in russia. Teemu Selänne joined the winnipeg jets after some seasons in finnish league. i remember this Forsberg kid who played in sweden and then joined NHL.

so the thought is not that far fetched.

Hey if we're going to go that far let's use our imagination and imagine if there were no Canada! I bet then there wouldn't be so many in the NHL.

It's a flawed theory. If the NHL were any where else it wouldn't be the highest skilled league in the world. That 50% Canadian contingency must add some skill in order to garner it that title, else we would all be watching teams in the RSL, SEL, or Finish leagues and cheering them on instead.

Again, some of the best players aren't Canadian, it would be foolish to think they were with guys like Lidstrom, Malkin, Ovechkin, etc... (not that they aren't chalked full of elite players in Crosby, Thornton, Luongo, Brodeur, Neidermyer, Pronger, etc etc..) all floating around. However if I am going to make a full roster, Canada is imho the country that can assemble the most skilled full roster from the top guy right down the healthy scratches. Agree or disagree?

Ah well, im not going anywhere with u I can see that ;p
We could with ease replace AT LEAST 25% of the canadians in the nhl with better players from Europe.

I never said that a topnotch roster with canadians wasnt the best, they might be. However the average canadian nhlplayer could with ease be european IF the league was in Europe.

Ah well, im not going anywhere with u I can see that ;p
We could with ease replace AT LEAST 25% of the canadians in the nhl with better players from Europe.

I never said that a topnotch roster with canadians wasnt the best, they might be. However the average canadian nhlplayer could with ease be european IF the league was in Europe.

That's ridiculous. Canada just has the most hockey players, and depth by far.

Average NHL players like Horcoff, and Morrison, and Mike Knuble who don't have a hope of making the Canadian A-Roster were all top ten in scoring when they went over to play in the Swedish Elite League during the lockout.

Canada's 3rd and 4th tier guys are better then all other countries 2nd tier guys.

The gap between Canada's elite and the other top six's Elite is pretty nonexistant these days. Most of the big hockey countries can ice a great first string team. The gap between Canada's second and third stringers and all other countries's second and third stringers is massive.

Well, let's look at the lineups and I'll tell you. I'm making actual rosters, not just picking all the best players.

Canada-Crosby, Lecavlier, Spezza, Iginla, Thornton, St. Louis, Boyes, Nash, Gagne, Getzlaf, Richards, Staal, Campbell, Phaneuf, Green, Burns, Coburn, Pronger, Bouwmeester, Luongo, Brodeur

World-Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Kopitar, Kovalev, Hossa, Frolov, Semen, Sykora, Lidstrom, Gonchar, Markov, Timonen, Kaberle, Johnson, Chara, Nabokov, Lundqvist.

World rapes completely

:biglaugh::biglaugh: Semin?

It's a flawed theory. If the NHL were any where else it wouldn't be the highest skilled league in the world. That 50% Canadian contingency must add some skill in order to garner it that title, else we would all be watching teams in the RSL, SEL, or Finish leagues and cheering them on instead.

What makes you think this?

In fact, if the NHL were in Europe it would be MORE skilled than it is now. Generally speaking, the international game eliminates the need for semi-talented grinders, muckers and role players who are needed for the NHL style of game.

The world's best-of-the best would still be there but the skill depth of the league would be far better.

Full roster competition the world has more depth and would take the game.

5 on 5 with goaltenders would be a bit harder, but I still give the edge to world.

I agree but a slight edge.

Ah well, im not going anywhere with u I can see that ;p
We could with ease replace AT LEAST 25% of the canadians in the nhl with better players from Europe.

I never said that a topnotch roster with canadians wasnt the best, they might be. However the average canadian nhlplayer could with ease be european IF the league was in Europe.

What about examples like:

Daniel Cleary finishing tied for ninth in assists in the SEL in 2005..

Know who finished 1st and 2nd in assists in the Finnish league that year? Steve Kariya and Glen Metropolit...

Or how about Randy Robitaille and Hnat Domenichelli ripping up the Swiss League?

25%...unlikely..

That's ridiculous. Canada just has the most hockey players, and depth by far.

Average NHL players like Horcoff, and Morrison, and Mike Knuble who don't have a hope of making the Canadian A-Roster were all top ten in scoring when they went over to play in the Swedish Elite League during the lockout.

Canada's 3rd and 4th tier guys are better then all other countries 2nd tier guys.

Right....but a lot of Canada's that talent depth coorelates to the N.A. game only. In fact, most of the NHL's 3rd/4th line character/role players are Canadians who would generally have a tough time on the bigger ice surface.

Remember, we're not measuring Canada against any other single country, but to all hockey countries collectively. If the NHL were in Europe Canada would still certainly have the most players, however, that number WOULD BE significantly reduced simply due to the style of play.

Average NHL players like Horcoff, and Morrison, and Mike Knuble who don't have a hope of making the Canadian A-Roster were all top ten in scoring when they went over to play in the Swedish Elite League during the lockout.

Lecavalier was not exactly lighting it up during the lockout in Russia, got 16 points in 30 games. "The stars" generally did not quite perform ...your claim can be just turned upside down.



The gap between Canada's second and third stringers and all other countries's second and third stringers is massive.

You may be right about the 3 string, not the second. Sweden fielded a 2 tier team this WCh which faired admirably against Canadian team which was arguably 1/2 to 2/3 OG roster.

What makes you think this?

In fact, if the NHL were in Europe it would be MORE skilled than it is now. Generally speaking, the international game eliminates the need for semi-talented grinders, muckers and role players who are needed for the NHL style of game.

The world's best-of-the best would still be there but the skill depth of the league would be far better.

What makes me think this? If what you say were true, I would be going out tomorrow to buy my Malmo Redhawks sweater at Cleve's.

Put it this way, you take all the players from the RSL, then you take all the players from the NHL... and do the ol swaparoo so that the RSL is now made up of all the NHL players, and vice versa. Which league is the most skilled?

The RSL would be... and it would also be 50% Canadian. See where we're going here? It isn't the league or the commish that make the NHL the most skilled league in the world, it's the players. Those players happen to be 50% Canadian, so say what you want, dream up any wild scenario you can, it's safe to say that you can take the NHL logo, every franchise and owner, and every referee but if you don't take those players you don't have the most skilled league.

Those role players you easily dismiss... how'd they do in the elite leagues during the lockout? It wouldn't be the role players getting eliminated, hence the reason you see a lot of guys who thrive in those leagues overseas unable to hack it in the NHL. Sre you might have the odd Morozov or Zinojev slotted in here and there... but I doubt you'd see a lot of NHL'ers losing their job to the average RSL player.

Put it this way, you take all the players from the RSL, then you take all the players from the NHL... and do the ol swaparoo so that the RSL is now made up of all the NHL players, and vice versa. Which league is the most skilled?

Didn't he start by saying "if the NHL was in Europe", and not lets compare "Euroleagues and NHL"?


but I doubt you'd see a lot of NHL'ers losing their job to the average RSL player.

Tonns of them. Non-European 3-d and 4-th liners would have no business in the RSL, since they have lesser skill and non big ice passing game experience

I think there no doubt there's enough NAmerican players for one skilled league. The point is that if all Euros are shipped back, and the missing ranks are filled with the local top players - you got yourself a league as good as the NHL.

Canada > The World

Well, let's look at the lineups and I'll tell you. I'm making actual rosters, not just picking all the best players.

Canada-Crosby, Lecavalier, Spezza, Iginla, Thornton, St. Louis, Heatley, Nash, Toews, Getzlaf, Richards, Staal, Campbell, Phaneuf, Green, Burns, Niedmayer , Pronger, Bouwmeester, Luongo, Brodeur, Turco

World-Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Kopitar, Kovalev, Hossa, Frolov, Semin, Sykora, Kane ,Lidstrom, Gonchar, Markov, Timonen, Kaberle, Johnson, Chara, Nabokov, Lundqvist, Kiprusoff

World rapes completely

Are you serious?? I think that's pretty even...

Offense
World > Canada

Defense
Canada > World

Goaltending
Canada > World

Are you serious?? I think that's pretty even...

Offense
World > Canada

Defense
Canada > World

Goaltending
Canada > World
I have to disagree...Because
Lidstrom > Defense

Well, let's look at the lineups and I'll tell you. I'm making actual rosters, not just picking all the best players.

Canada-Crosby, Lecavlier, Spezza, Iginla, Thornton, St. Louis, Boyes, Nash, Gagne, Getzlaf, Richards, Staal, Campbell, Phaneuf, Green, Burns, Coburn, Pronger, Bouwmeester, Luongo, Brodeur

World-Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Kopitar, Kovalev, Hossa, Frolov, Semen, Sykora, Lidstrom, Gonchar, Markov, Timonen, Kaberle, Johnson, Chara, Nabokov, Lundqvist.

World rapes completely

thats awful. you made both comparisons look bad.

Actually i have on question for you Russians, if the RSL is such a better league to play in, how come your best Russian plays come over here to NA to play in the NHL? Does that not prove your theory completely wrong.

Actually i have on question for you Russians, if the RSL is such a better league to play in

Who said that? Better than what?

Who said that? Better than what?

Well, some of you have mentioned in the past that RSL is "art" and requires skill, and the enforcers and what not wouldnt be playing blah blah blah and so on, then how come guys like Ovechkin, Malkin and so on, all LEFT the RSL to come play against the BEST in the world: NHL.

Well, some of you have mentioned in the past that RSL is "art" and requires skill, and the enforcers and what not wouldnt be playing blah blah blah and so on, then how come guys like Ovechkin, Malkin and so on, all LEFT the RSL to come play against the BEST in the world: NHL.

All of this is true, where's "better league" in all of this?

All of this is true, where's "better league" in all of this?

Is the best league not the league with the best players?

All of this is true, where's "better league" in all of this?

Well, when you say it requires "skill" to play in and half the NHL wouldnt be in the RSL, you guys praise it like it its superior to the NHL. But at the end of the day its YOUR best Russians coming to play in the NHL.

Well, when you say it requires "skill" to play in and half the NHL wouldnt be in the RSL, you guys praise it like it its superior to the NHL. But at the end of the day its YOUR best Russians coming to play in the NHL.


I am sorry, that how you read it. Skilfull league, yes, many NHLers would not fit in. Clearly, NHL has better players at top, that why they go, not to mention that the RSL can not shell out a 120 mil contract. You are askiing a question that you can easily answer yourself.

Is the best league not the league with the best players?

Bingo (with a small asterisk)

Bingo (with a small asterisk)

Here's what I know..

The best league in the world is the NHL...

I think 50% of the great players in the NHL are Canadian..

What's the argument again?

2006 Olympics: (let's use the most recent examples)

Canada 0:2 Russia

hockey canada (http://www.hockeycanada.ca/1/9/1/3/1/index1.shtml)

Canada roster:

Goaltenders: Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Marty Turco.

Defensemen: Rob Blake, Adam Foote, Ed Jovanovski, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Wade Redden, Robyn Regehr, .

Forwards: Todd Bertuzzi, Shane Doan, Kris Draper, Simon Gagne, Dany Heatley, Jarome Iginla, Vincent Lecavalier, Rick Nash,Brad Richards, Joe Sakic, Ryan Smyth, Martin St. Louis, Joe Thornton,

:sarcasm:Brodeur >>>> Nabokov:sarcasm:

That's why this thread seems very arrogant to me. Before taking on the world, how about beating an "inferior" Russian defense?

Like I said before only Brazil vs the World in soccer would make sense, or USA vs the World in basketball, that too, without a question.

Here's what I know..

The best league in the world is the NHL...

I think 50% of the great players in the NHL are Canadian..

What's the argument again?

:dunno: Mine? I don't have an argument but a claim. That if you ship all Euros back to Europe and beef it up with top local players you have a league comparable to the NHL.

Like I said before only Brazil vs the World in soccer would make sense.

I disagree

2006 Olympics: (let's use the most recent examples)

Canada 0:2 Russia

hockey canada (http://www.hockeycanada.ca/1/9/1/3/1/index1.shtml)

Canada roster:

Goaltenders: Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Marty Turco.

Defensemen: Rob Blake, Adam Foote, Ed Jovanovski, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Wade Redden, Robyn Regehr, .

Forwards: Todd Bertuzzi, Shane Doan, Kris Draper, Simon Gagne, Dany Heatley, Jarome Iginla, Vincent Lecavalier, Rick Nash,Brad Richards, Joe Sakic, Ryan Smyth, Martin St. Louis, Joe Thornton,

:sarcasm:Brodeur >>>> Nabokov:sarcasm:

That's why this thread seems very arrogant to me. Before taking on the world, how about beating an "inferior" Russian defense?

Like I said before only Brazil vs the World in soccer would make sense, or USA vs the World in basketball, that too, without a question.

How much has changed in 2 years? So much.

Almost half of that team will change if the team were assembled today. There is also no doubt that Canada was completely off of their game in 2006, is it the most recent or the most convenient example?

Also, if you look at the ratios there are unquestionably more Canadian players vs. the world in hockey than there are Brazilians vs the world in soccer.

Put it this way, you take all the players from the RSL, then you take all the players from the NHL... and do the ol swaparoo so that the RSL is now made up of all the NHL players, and vice versa. Which league is the most skilled?

The RSL would be... and it would also be 50% Canadian. See where we're going here? It isn't the league or the commish that make the NHL the most skilled league in the world, it's the players. Those players happen to be 50% Canadian, so say what you want, dream up any wild scenario you can, it's safe to say that you can take the NHL logo, every franchise and owner, and every referee but if you don't take those players you don't have the most skilled league.

Wrong.

May I repeat......a good part of Canada's 50% are 3rd and 4th line character/role players specifically suited for the small ice. They would be replaced by Europeans more skilled and more suited for the open international game.

Wrong.

May I repeat......a good part of Canada's 50% are 3rd and 4th line character/role players specifically suited for the small ice. They would be replaced by Europeans more skilled and more suited for the open international game.

So the point is International players are better on International ice?

That's a completely different point.

That's probably the point. And that's why they are better in their leagues than many Canadians would be

So the point is International players are better on International ice?

By and large, yes.


That's a completely different point.

No it isn't.

The only reason 50% of the NHL is Canadian is because it's played on N.A. ice. If the NHL was in Russia it would be played on the big ice......hence, significantly lowering Canada's 50% as grinders, tought guys, etc. would not be needed to the extent they are in the NHL.

Canadians would still make up the majority of the league; but nowhere near 50%.

Canadians would still make up the majority of the league; but nowhere near 50%.

That would be called plurality :)

That would be called plurality :)

Ha! Ha! What was I thinking? That makes no sense at all.:laugh:

Wow... way to stay on topic everyone. A simple list of 5 players and a goaltender and why either team would win was all that was asked for and this turned into a pissing contest between 2 countries. :handclap:

Wow... way to stay on topic everyone. A simple list of 5 players and a goaltender and why either team would win was all that was asked for and this turned into a pissing contest between 2 countries. :handclap:

Common, look at the title of the thread :nod:

Well, when you say it requires "skill" to play in and half the NHL wouldnt be in the RSL, you guys praise it like it its superior to the NHL. But at the end of the day its YOUR best Russians coming to play in the NHL.

the QMJHL is more skillful than the WHL; does that make it better by a margin?

One thing I've noticed when talking to Russians on here is they use "skill" as a word to describe things such as finesse, puck handling ability, speed, deking and so forth. They do not necessarily mean overall skill in every category of hockey.

they use "skill" as a word to describe things such as finesse, puck handling ability, speed, deking and so forth. They do not necessarily mean overall skill in every category of hockey.

This plus passing, shooting, ice vision. I don't think other things are called "skill". Physical play is not termed "skill" or is it?

I have to disagree...Because
Lidstrom > Defense

my favorite post of the week, i lol'd. :laugh:

Common, look at the title of the thread :nod:

Does that mean people shouldn't read the original post? You know what they say about assumptions...

This plus passing, shooting, ice vision. I don't think other things are called "skill". Physical play is not termed "skill" or is it?
It's a skill to know how to properly use your physical strength while performing what ever you do on the ice.

This argument can lead no where. Some posters say that the majority of the canadian lower tier players in the NHL are all grinders that wouldn't fare well on bigger ice surface, but I think I would like to add a nuance to this statement.

In Canada, virtually between a third and the half of the male population plays or has played hockey at some point of their lives. Canada isn't a big country population wise, but when it comes to Hockey, the player man power is absolutely bigger than in any other country. There are more rinks per capita than in any other country of the world.

So if you have unparallelled quantity of players coming out (even if most of them are irrelevant since they will never play at a high level), and propre player developement since the start of the player's "career", well the quality of the talent pool is bound to be filled with quality, and lots of it. But this mass of Canadian hockey players all grow up watching the NHL. A league that plays on smaller ice surface, a league where you have to fight for every inch of the ice, yet a league that sees some exceptional talent fare and blow us all out of our socks.

Bring all your skilled second tier europeans play a seven game series against a team full of "limited skills" grinders on small ice surface, well then I would choose the later team.

But then again, switch the ice surface and the results would probably different.

It all comes down to the fact that Hockey has been present in Canada for a long time. In Europe, I think you guys played bandy at the start of the twentieth century. So the NHL is just so stable, and yeah, rich and it has such a rich history, it just motivated canadians to play hockey more than in any other country in the world.

So I guess that why it's the NHL that sets the standards of talent for the North Americans, and international play for the europeans.

I hope that makes sens!!

Any team full of great players could win any game. Could Canadian All-Stars beat World All-Stars? Absolutely. Could they lose? Absolutely.

However, I'm not sure how much pride there'd be behind being on a "World" team. Playing for your country inspires people. Playing for "not Canada" wouldn't.

Canada
Crosby - Lecavalier - Iginla
Pronger - Niedermayer
Luongo

The World(AKA Mostly Russina or USSR I should say)
Ovechkin - Malkin - Kovalchuk
Lidstrom - Chara
Nabokov

Lecavalier was not exactly lighting it up during the lockout in Russia, got 16 points in 30 games. "The stars" generally did not quite perform ...your claim can be just turned upside down.
Lecavalier didn't even have his big breakout season until 06-07. Until then he was seen as something of an enigma.


You may be right about the 3 string, not the second. Sweden fielded a 2 tier team this WCh which faired admirably against Canadian team which was arguably 1/2 to 2/3 OG roster.

Team Canada was missing their 3 best defencemen in Niedermayer, Pronger, and Phaneuf. Their four best forwards in Crosby, Iginla, Lecavalier, and Thornton, and their four best goalies. Brodeur, Luongo, Giguere, and Turco.

They could have easily put together another 2-3 teams that would have been just as good as the team they sent, with guys that stayed home.


Tonns of them. Non-European 3-d and 4-th liners would have no business in the RSL, since they have lesser skill and non big ice passing game experience

I guess there'd be room for all the much more "skilled" Canadians that couldn't cut it in North America and are playing in places like Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, and Germany.

Canada has over 500,000 registered hockey players while no European country has over 100,000. While the European countries are able to put together teams of their elite that match up well against the Canadians, their depth is not even close to comparable.

Any team full of great players could win any game. Could Canadian All-Stars beat World All-Stars? Absolutely. Could they lose? Absolutely.

However, I'm not sure how much pride there'd be behind being on a "World" team. Playing for your country inspires people. Playing for "not Canada" wouldn't.

Thats true, but surely could a russian team beat an canadian team, a swedish team could beat a canadian team. :nod:

This plus passing, shooting, ice vision. I don't think other things are called "skill". Physical play is not termed "skill" or is it?

So is shot blocking not a skill? How about delivering a clean check? Defense.... no?

If your talking about skill as finesse, then yes, other countries may be able to better match up skill wise to the Canadians... of course so would the ice capades. Until the ban checking, and the physical aspect of hockey it will always be a major part of the game, and a part that can directly influence how well your team does in a game.

As for the point about the NHL being 50% Canadian if it were elsewhere. Simple fact, the NHL is the most skilled league in the world. More then half of it is made up of Canadians. Add Americans into the mix and nearly 75% is made up of North Americans. If Europe could produce a more skilled league, the RSL, SEL, or Finish elite leagues would be top of the food chain.

Therefore, if you moved the NHL overseas, it would no longer be the most skilled league in the world, it would be the RSL part2, or SEL part2... unless you brought all the players with it (in which case it would be (or at least close to) 50% Canadian). This is nothing against those leagues, as they are capable of producing some of the best individual hockey players in the world. On average however, Canada produces a higher number, and more skilled hockey players then anywhere else in the world. It is what it is.

And as much as people want to dismiss the Draper, Maltby, McCarty, Ott, Winchester, Holmstrom, Axelsson, Lapierre's and Roy's of the league, those are the guys that often make the difference in hockey games. What they do is a skill (the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well), as much as Kovalchuks ability to score a goal is a skill. If not, every Tom Dick and Harry from every country would be an NHL player making decent money. The days of the enforcer who couldn't perform any other function are gone, even Laraque/Brash can skate and are reliable defensively.

Canada might not have the best team right now ( I still think they does)

But Canada is the only counrty that you can divide byt 3-4 regions and still have 4 teams that could competes for medals...

The depth is so much superior than any other country.

What most of the posters don't seem to understand is that there are players in Europe that are muckers and grinders. Their issue is that predominantly, the NHL only wants the highly skilled finesse players to come over. There are very few Varada's that make the jump unless they've played some time in the CHL. In Varada's case while he was the prototypical V2 Bomber that everyone hated playing against, he was a very skilled player at both the Junior and AHL levels before bulking up (scored 50 with with Kelowna and 30 with Rochester). The players in Europe that would fill those roles make very good money and play at the highest levels there without having to worry about coming across the pond and doing yeoman's work in the minors before getting a call up.

Lecavalier was not exactly lighting it up during the lockout in Russia, got 16 points in 30 games. "The stars" generally did not quite perform ...your claim can be just turned upside down.




You may be right about the 3 string, not the second. Sweden fielded a 2 tier team this WCh which faired admirably against Canadian team which was arguably 1/2 to 2/3 OG roster.

And they also took russia to OT

Canada > The World

Which is why they have so may Olympic gold medals in the last 50 years?

Keep kidding yourself

thats awful. you made both comparisons look bad.

Actually i have on question for you Russians, if the RSL is such a better league to play in, how come your best Russian plays come over here to NA to play in the NHL? Does that not prove your theory completely wrong.

More money and bigger crowds.

2006 Olympics: (let's use the most recent examples)

Canada 0:2 Russia

hockey canada (http://www.hockeycanada.ca/1/9/1/3/1/index1.shtml)

Canada roster:

Goaltenders: Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Marty Turco.

Defensemen: Rob Blake, Adam Foote, Ed Jovanovski, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Wade Redden, Robyn Regehr, .

Forwards: Todd Bertuzzi, Shane Doan, Kris Draper, Simon Gagne, Dany Heatley, Jarome Iginla, Vincent Lecavalier, Rick Nash,Brad Richards, Joe Sakic, Ryan Smyth, Martin St. Louis, Joe Thornton,

:sarcasm:Brodeur >>>> Nabokov:sarcasm:

That's why this thread seems very arrogant to me. Before taking on the world, how about beating an "inferior" Russian defense?

Like I said before only Brazil vs the World in soccer would make sense, or USA vs the World in basketball, that too, without a question.

Brazil's depth is insane but they would get manhandled by a world team, brazil doesn't even have the most tlaneted team at the moment nor do they play the most attractive soccer anymore.

That's the thing, the players are so good that Russia, Sweden, Finland, the Czechs... they could all beat Canada on any given night. I would bet on Canada every time in a best of 7 or in some kind of national league play. I also believe there could be 3 or 4 Team Canadas that could all compete for gold medals. I'm not sure any team but Russia could come close to that. In that way I rank hockey nations in terms of their depth of talent Canada first, Russia second and Sweden third.

Canada would win because we are better at hockey than everyone else and we play the game the way it was meant to be played. Here's a list of candidates for 2010 of the top of my head
Lecalvier
Stall
Crosby
Iginla
St. Louis
Sakic
Morrow
Thornton
Getzlaf
Nash
Statsny
Heatley
Toews
Perry
Smyth
Gange
Ganger
Spezza
Ribeiro
Doan
Roy
Pomninville
Briere
Richards
Carter
Cambell
Burns
Green
Pronger
Neidemeyer
Mitchell
Seabrooke
Jovanoski
Phaneuf
Redden
Bouwmeester
Kieth
Brodeur
Luongo
Turco
Price

and I'm sure that I've missed some. But in a world all-stars vs. Team Canada series Canada would win, mabey not in a one game situation but in a series for sure.

and I'm sure that I've missed some. But in a world all-stars vs. Team Canada series Canada would win, mabey not in a one game situation but in a series for sure.


Don't be absurd.

In addition to winning only 1 medal, Team Canada only has a .500 record vs the other top 7 countries at the last 3 olympics (best-v-best).
If Canada doesn't even have a winning record vs other individual countries, how the heck are they gonna beat a world all-star team?:help:

ANY national team would LOSE against a world all-star team.

Well, I dont know about that. But then again,4 of top6 scorers from europe, 6 of top10 from europe. Guess it rounds out to a 50%.

But if you look at the playoffs 4 of top5 from europe.. 10 of top20 from europe and only 7 from Canada.
That means nothing, in 2006-2007:
5 of top5 scorers were from Canada, 8 of top10 from Canada..

At the playoffs: 3 of top5 from Canada.. 10 of top20 from Canada and only 8 from Europe.

PS don't forget: Crosby healthy= 1st scorer in the NHL ;)

Wow, I honestly had no idea that the rest of the world hated us so much for being passionate about the game we love. I couldn't even quote everybody I wanted to address.

European players would dominate IF the league was in Europe. Then why isn't it? If the rest of the world has equal passion and skill for this game, why did the the best hockey league in the world develop in North America? Why do European players want to come to the NHL when if they chose to stay at home they could create their own best league in Europe?

Yes European players are more highly skilled on a larger ice surface and the game is different. Do people honestly think that if Canada adopted a larger ice surface our young hockey players would not grow up to be just as talented on it?

I don't understand what the issue is. Yes, we love this game. Yes, we are very good at it. All the ifs in the world don't change the facts. If it came down to Canada vs. The World in one game or even a 7 game series, the fact remains that we would have a shot. It would be difficult and they would have to play well but can anybody really deny we would have a chance to win?

And for the record there are a lot of Canadians who think the Russian win was good for the game. I know that Don Cherry is considered a hockey icon, but for the most part we watch him out of tradition not because we believe everything he has to say. On some issues he is right but like anybody he's wrong a lot too.

I don't think anyone is arguing about Canadian talent. Sure, they have the talent to win a game against the "rest of the world," if they played well. As someone said above, the word if does not change facts. Yes, Canada dominates in junior hockey. Yes, they are always the favorites to win in international play. But the FACT is that Canada has one Olympic Gold Medal in the last half-century. As great an accomplishment as cleaning up at the WJC and WHC (in past years) is, nothing compares to the biggest stage, the Winter Olympics, and Canada has done nothing in the past half-century outside winning gold in 2002 to justify all this bravado.

Sure, since NHL players were allowed to play in the Olympics, Canada has a gold medal. So basically, on even footing, one gold medal in three chances, which is respectable...for most countries.

For the amount of **** talked by some Canadians on this site, you would think they have cleaned up when it matters most. They failed in 1998 with talent-wise, maybe the finest group of players ever assembled. In 2006, they failed miserably.

Why all the arrogance? I know some idiot will come in and tell me the USA sucks, but I'll agree with him. We do suck, and our country is not expected to win Gold in every major professional tournament. Canada is, and they've failed too many times to warrant all this arrogance.

Still, I expect them to win Gold in 2010, though Russia will give them more than a run for their money.

Canada would win because we are better at hockey than everyone else and we play the game the way it was meant to be played. Here's a list of candidates for 2010 of the top of my head
Lecalvier
Stall
Crosby
Iginla
St. Louis
Sakic
Morrow
Thornton
Getzlaf
Nash
Statsny
Heatley
Toews
Perry
Smyth
Gange
Ganger
Spezza
Ribeiro
Doan
Roy
Pomninville
Briere
Richards
Carter
Cambell
Burns
Green
Pronger
Neidemeyer
Mitchell
Seabrooke
Jovanoski
Phaneuf
Redden
Bouwmeester
Kieth
Brodeur
Luongo
Turco
Price

and I'm sure that I've missed some. But in a world all-stars vs. Team Canada series Canada would win, mabey not in a one game situation but in a series for sure.

dream on :shakehead

That means nothing, in 2006-2007:
5 of top5 scorers were from Canada, 8 of top10 from Canada..

At the playoffs: 3 of top5 from Canada.. 10 of top20 from Canada and only 8 from Europe.

PS don't forget: Crosby healthy= 1st scorer in the NHL ;)

no he is on 2 place right after you:sarcasm:

Wow, I honestly had no idea that the rest of the world hated us so much for being passionate about the game we love. I couldn't even quote everybody I wanted to address.

European players would dominate IF the league was in Europe. Then why isn't it? If the rest of the world has equal passion and skill for this game, why did the the best hockey league in the world develop in North America? Why do European players want to come to the NHL when if they chose to stay at home they could create their own best league in Europe?

Yes European players are more highly skilled on a larger ice surface and the game is different. Do people honestly think that if Canada adopted a larger ice surface our young hockey players would not grow up to be just as talented on it?

I don't understand what the issue is. Yes, we love this game. Yes, we are very good at it. All the ifs in the world don't change the facts. If it came down to Canada vs. The World in one game or even a 7 game series, the fact remains that we would have a shot. It would be difficult and they would have to play well but can anybody really deny we would have a chance to win?

And for the record there are a lot of Canadians who think the Russian win was good for the game. I know that Don Cherry is considered a hockey icon, but for the most part we watch him out of tradition not because we believe everything he has to say. On some issues he is right but like anybody he's wrong a lot too.

there is 6 teams who probably have a SHOT at that series:sarcasm:

European players would dominate IF the league was in Europe. Then why isn't it? If the rest of the world has equal passion and skill for this game, why did the the best hockey league in the world develop in North America? Why do European players want to come to the NHL when if they chose to stay at home they could create their own best league in Europe?

The NHL is the best league in the world because of its wealth; not because of an overriding passion or skill for the game in North America. Simply stated, talent will generally follow where the money is.

The RSL (KHL), SEL, SM Liiga, etc. can't compete with the NHL because no other hockey country can match the combination of USA's economy and population.
In an unregulated 'free market' system, even most hockey crazed Canadian franchises would not be able to compete with the American teams even though the popularity of the sport in America is on par with the likes of dog shows and hot dog eating contests.

The NHL is the best league in the world because of its wealth; not because of an overriding passion or skill for the game in North America. Simply stated, talent will generally follow where the money is.

The RSL (KHL), SEL, SM Liiga, etc. can't compete with the NHL because no other hockey country can match the combination of USA's economy and population.
In an unregulated 'free market' system, even most hockey crazed Canadian franchises would not be able to compete with the American teams even though the popularity of the sport in America is on par with the likes of dog shows and hot dog eating contests.

:D nice one

The NHL is the best league in the world because of its wealth; not because of an overriding passion or skill for the game in North America. Simply stated, talent will generally follow where the money is.

The RSL (KHL), SEL, SM Liiga, etc. can't compete with the NHL because no other hockey country can match the combination of USA's economy and population.
In an unregulated 'free market' system, even most hockey crazed Canadian franchises would not be able to compete with the American teams even though the popularity of the sport in America is on par with the likes of dog shows and hot dog eating contests.

Huh?

Have you seen the Canadian dollar lately? It's almost on par with the American dollar...

What are you basing this on? Ownership?

Toronto is easily the wealthiest franchise...Montreal is in the top five...and according to the last Forbes evaluation none of the six Canadian teams were in the bottom third of the league..

Eugene Melnyk was quoted last year, saying that forty percent of the league's revenue comes from Canadian teams.. ( http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071109.TRUTH09/TPStory/TPSports/Television/ )

Off the top of my head, here's are a couple of potential lineups in a World vs Canada series. Four games on Canadian Ice and Four games on Euro ice:

Iginla Crosby Heatley
St.Louis Lecavalier Nash
B.Richards Thornton Gagne
Doan M.Richards Morrow

Pronger Nieds
Phaneuf Bouwmeester
Campbell Burns

Brodeur
Luongo


World
Alfredsson Malkin Ovechkin
Hossa Datsyk Zetterberg
Kovalev Kopitar Kovalchuk
Gaborik Drury Letinen

Lidstrom Chara
Zubov Timonen
Markov Gonchar

Nabokov
Lundqvist

Team World would have more firepower, especially on the wings, but Canada would be more defensively sound up front and better down the middle. Team World also has overall, better talent on the blueline, but I give Canada the edge in goal.

Prediction: 5-3 World

Off the top of my head, here's are a couple of potential lineups in a World vs Canada series. Four games on Canadian Ice and Four games on Euro ice:

Iginla Crosby Heatley
St.Louis Lecavalier Nash
B.Richards Thornton Gagne
Doan M.Richards Morrow

Pronger Nieds
Phaneuf Bouwmeester
Campbell Burns

Brodeur
Luongo


World
Alfredsson Malkin Ovechkin
Hossa Datsyk Zetterberg
Kovalev Kopitar Kovalchuk
Gaborik Drury Letinen

Lidstrom Chara
Zubov Timonen
Markov Gonchar

Nabokov
Lundqvist

Team World would have more firepower, especially on the wings, but Canada would be more defensively sound up front and better down the middle. Team World also has overall, better talent on the blueline, but I give Canada the edge in goal.

Prediction: 5-3 World


You may be correct in your skill/strenghts assessment but I don't think the 'world' team would be motivated in this game. For them it'd probably feel like an all-star game (i.e. theatrical performance for fairweather fans and kids). Whereas for the Canadian team it'd be a matter of national honour which would likely translate into burning motivation on the ice. I think the team Canada would win quite easily because of the disparity on motivation.

It should be interesting to see how well Simon does in the RSL this year (but they have no need for the NHL's grinders/miscreants, cause there's so much skill).

The NHL is the best league in the world because of its wealth; not because of an overriding passion or skill for the game in North America. Simply stated, talent will generally follow where the money is.

The RSL (KHL), SEL, SM Liiga, etc. can't compete with the NHL because no other hockey country can match the combination of USA's economy and population.
In an unregulated 'free market' system, even most hockey crazed Canadian franchises would not be able to compete with the American teams even though the popularity of the sport in America is on par with the likes of dog shows and hot dog eating contests.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that the NHL started out "weathly"? You should look into the history of the league, wealth had nothing to do with how this league started. Yes, the NHL is wealthy now but it didn't start that way. You were missing the biggest point of my post. WHY DID THE NHL START IN NORTH AMERICA AND NOT OVERSEAS?

If you're honestly interested about the NHL's history and it's struggles in the beginning there are few sights that are really easy to find just by googling NHL. There's also a really good book that CBC put out called "hockey a people's history", it's an excellent read if you love hockey.

HECK, Canada`s second and third teams would take the silver and bronze if we were allowed to enter three teams....;):sarcasm:

It should be interesting to see how well Simon does in the RSL this year (but they have no need for the NHL's grinders/miscreants, cause there's so much skill).

Same way as Verot did on the same team: 42 games, 2 G, 1 A, -3, 508 PM, and a focal focus of media and fan ourage.

And I hope that someone will finally fire Zhamnov for bringing players like that.

You were missing the biggest point of my post. WHY DID THE NHL START IN NORTH AMERICA AND NOT OVERSEAS?

May be because that's the only place here hockey was played at that time :sarcasm:

Team Canada was missing their 3 best defencemen in Niedermayer, Pronger, and Phaneuf. Their four best forwards in Crosby, Iginla, Lecavalier, and Thornton, and their four best goalies. Brodeur, Luongo, Giguere, and Turco.


Well, you are supporting my point of this being 1/2 to 2/3 OG team by proposing 7 skaters and 3 goalies :).


They could have easily put together another 2-3 teams that would have been just as good as the team they sent, with guys that stayed home.

No, if you mean, a completely different team, certainly not.

their depth is not even close to comparable.

I am not argueing that. I am arguing the claim that Canadian 3-4 stringers are better than European 2-nd stringers.

And they also took russia to OT

It's natural that the 1/2 to 2/3 Canadian OG team took the Russian 1/2 to 2/3 OG team to OT, I would think...

HECK, Canada`s second and third teams would take the silver and bronze if we were allowed to enter three teams....;):sarcasm:

Yea, three Canadian teams = three medals. Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Rep. etc, don't stand a chance to even medal let alone win. History totally backs this up as well.

Yea, three Canadian teams = three medals. Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Rep. etc, don't stand a chance to even medal let alone win. History totally backs this up as well.

Notice his sarcasm Icon, sheesh.

If countries were allowed to bring 3 teams it would be dumb seeing Canada 1 play Canada 2 for the Gold, or Russia 1 play Russia 2 for the bronze.:sarcasm: ;)

Notice his sarcasm Icon, sheesh.

If countries were allowed to bring 3 teams it would be dumb seeing Canada 1 play Canada 2 for the Gold, or Russia 1 play Russia 2 for the bronze.:sarcasm: ;)

I'm just imagining Team Canada 2... while not the most talented offensively, I can imagine they'd be a mean bunch of SOB's to play against.....

I'm just imagining Team Canada 2... while not the most talented offensively, I can imagine they'd be a mean bunch of SOB's to play against.....

I dunno about that, there would be a bunch of 30-40 goal scores on that team.

I'm just imagining Team Canada 2... while not the most talented offensively, I can imagine they'd be a mean bunch of SOB's to play against.....

Oh they could be talented.

Take your centers for instance, assuming Crosby, Thornton, Lecalvier and Getzlaf are on Team1. You would still have Spezza, Bergeron, Richards, Staal(s), Toews, Savard etc down the middle.

Hell may as well just do some rosters:

Team 1:
Nash - Crosby - Iginla
Heatley -Thornton - St Louis
Gagne - Lecalvier - B.Richards
Morrow - Getzlaf - Doan

Pronger - Nieds
Phaneuf - Bouwmeester
Campbell - Burns

Brodeur
Luongo


Team 2:
R. Smyth - Briere - E. Staal
Spezza - Savard - Perry
Bergeron - Toews - Gagner
Lucic - M. Richards - Horton

Mike Greene - Boyle
Souray - Weber
Hannan - Staois

Giguere
Ward

This still leaves forwards like J Carter, Lupul, J. Staal, Cogliano, Jason Williams, Sharp, Cammeleri, Fisher, and Arnott out.

Defense like Cam Barker, Seabrook, Morrisson, Ranger, D Keith, M Staal also are still available.

Goalies like Mason, Ellis, Leclaire are also on the outside looking in.

I could make a competitive 3rd team out of those guys.

Anyone thinking Canada couldn't ice 2 competitive teams in the worlds needs to think again. Name Russia, Swedens, or Finlands second team.

Notice his sarcasm Icon, sheesh.

If countries were allowed to bring 3 teams it would be dumb seeing Canada 1 play Canada 2 for the Gold, or Russia 1 play Russia 2 for the bronze.:sarcasm: ;)

Actually, in a single-game elimination tourney, all top 7 countries would be able to field 3 teams that could cause damage. Well, maybe everybody but Slovakia.

If Switzerland can beat Canada and the Czech’s best…there’s no reason anybody’s 3 team couldn’t either on occasion.

Switzerland/Germany << "top 6" C teams

PS don't forget: Crosby healthy= 1st scorer in the NHL ;)

there is no evidence to support this. The truth is, Ovechkin still finished with a higher ppg, and if you want to play the if he was healthy card, Forsberg would have finished ahead of both.

I dunno about that, there would be a bunch of 30-40 goal scores on that team.

They would mostly be wingers who rely on their centers though.

Which is why they have so may Olympic gold medals in the last 50 years?

Keep kidding yourself

duh!

it's like saying montreal's team is better than the best of the rest of the nhl teams

double duh!

Don't be absurd.

In addition to winning only 1 medal, Team Canada only has a .500 record vs the other top 7 countries at the last 3 olympics (best-v-best).
If Canada doesn't even have a winning record vs other individual countries, how the heck are they gonna beat a world all-star team?:help:

ANY national team would LOSE against a world all-star team.

in addition to that .500 record Canada also lost to the Swiss.

in addition to that .500 record Canada also lost to the Swiss.

Ya thanks did not know that. :shakehead

I am tired of people brining up 06 Turin like it is some sort of greater truth about Canadian hockey. We played poorly, very poorly, and is Canada capable of better? You know it. I would like to point out that we won in 2002, 04 World cup and a few WC, and have a good chance to win again in 2010 along with the Russians who will have a great team as well.

Ya thanks did not know that. :shakehead

I am tired of people brining up 06 Turin like it is some sort of greater truth about Canadian hockey. We played poorly, very poorly, and is Canada capable of better? You know it. I would like to point out that we won in 2002, 04 World cup and a few WC, and have a good chance to win again in 2010 along with the Russians who will have a great team as well.

Plus look at the team they brought to Turin. Hell didn't they forego guys like Crosby, Phaneuf for a lot of the old guard? Neids (akin to missing a guy like Lidstrom) nor Jovonoski played. Blake Foote and Redden all looked like ass. Gretzky assembled a crap team.

Hardly the best Canada had to offer.

Ya thanks did not know that. :shakehead

I am tired of people brining up 06 Turin like it is some sort of greater truth about Canadian hockey. We played poorly, very poorly, and is Canada capable of better? You know it. I would like to point out that we won in 2002, 04 World cup and a few WC, and have a good chance to win again in 2010 along with the Russians who will have a great team as well.

People bring results port-Nagano to show that Canada can't claim that they could always win the best on the best matches. Because their results in the last three Olympics are far from being perfect.

Although many Canadians often claim that they are by far the best in hockey, international competitions (be it best on best OG; or second best WCh) do not support this view.

Plus look at the team they brought to Turin. Hell didn't they forego guys like Crosby, Phaneuf for a lot of the old guard? Neids (akin to missing a guy like Lidstrom) nor Jovonoski played. Blake Foote and Redden all looked like ass. Gretzky assembled a crap team.

Hardly the best Canada had to offer.

I thought Canada could assemble three teams that would take gold, silver, and bronze every single time? :sarcasm: Yet, I always hear the excuses of non-ideal team rosters.

Plus look at the team they brought to Turin. Hell didn't they forego guys like Crosby, Phaneuf for a lot of the old guard? Neids (akin to missing a guy like Lidstrom) nor Jovonoski played. Blake Foote and Redden all looked like ass. Gretzky assembled a crap team.

Hardly the best Canada had to offer.

Strange team that Canada. For some reason they never field their A team. :amazed:

Oh they could be talented.

Take your centers for instance, assuming Crosby, Thornton, Lecalvier and Getzlaf are on Team1. You would still have Spezza, Bergeron, Richards, Staal(s), Toews, Savard etc down the middle.

Hell may as well just do some rosters:

Team 1:
Nash - Crosby - Iginla
Heatley -Thornton - St Louis
Gagne - Lecalvier - B.Richards
Morrow - Getzlaf - Doan

Pronger - Nieds
Phaneuf - Bouwmeester
Campbell - Burns

Brodeur
Luongo


Team 2:
R. Smyth - Briere - E. Staal
Spezza - Savard - Perry
Bergeron - Toews - Gagner
Lucic - M. Richards - Horton

Mike Greene - Boyle
Souray - Weber
Hannan - Staois

Giguere
Ward

This still leaves forwards like J Carter, Lupul, J. Staal, Cogliano, Jason Williams, Sharp, Cammeleri, Fisher, and Arnott out.

Defense like Cam Barker, Seabrook, Morrisson, Ranger, D Keith, M Staal also are still available.

Goalies like Mason, Ellis, Leclaire are also on the outside looking in.

I could make a competitive 3rd team out of those guys.

Anyone thinking Canada couldn't ice 2 competitive teams in the worlds needs to think again. Name Russia, Swedens, or Finlands second team.

Are you serious? That second team would get destroyed by any of the top 7 teams. I mean having Souray on defense is bad enough, but when your top center is Brière...Good luck.

This plus passing, shooting, ice vision. I don't think other things are called "skill". Physical play is not termed "skill" or is it?

I would definitely call physical play skill. Not everyone can do it so it is a skill if you can be helpful to your team.

Also, I don't get why all the other fans [Outside of Canadian fans, I mean] keep rubbing it on this board that we lost in '06. People have short memories. We had just won the Olympics before that. Now, you want to win every Olympics but they act like we can't do anything and if someone says we could beat that country and they remind us of that team in '06.

EDIT- I forgot ablout World Cup '04.

A lot of players will be added to this team like Crosby, Phaneuf, Green, Burns, Getzlaf, M. Richards etc..... [They're one of the best players on their respective teams]

And we cannot forget that this tournament needs quick chemistry and hot goaltending for certain number of games.....[For Ex: Nittymaki]

Are you serious? That second team would get destroyed by any of the top 7 teams. I mean having Souray on defense is bad enough, but when your top center is Brière...Good luck.

Briere is supported by E. Staal, Spezza and Savard.

Are you serious? That second team would get destroyed by any of the top 7 teams. I mean having Souray on defense is bad enough, but when your top center is Brière...Good luck.

Yeah, but the 4th centre is Mike Richards..

That's the point, Canada has crazy depth..

I thought Canada could assemble three teams that would take gold, silver, and bronze every single time? :sarcasm: Yet, I always hear the excuses of non-ideal team rosters.

Way to generalize, just because we don't dominate every major competition doesn't mean we aren't the best in terms of depth.

Are you serious? That second team would get destroyed by any of the top 7 teams. I mean having Souray on defense is bad enough, but when your top center is Brière...Good luck.

Who's kidding who. Briere is a PPG 30+ goal scorer in the regular season, and again a PPG player in the playoffs. Then as other s have said, look at the players behind him at center including the ones listed below that weren't included. You don't like Briere there, slot in Savard, E Staal, M Richards, P Bergeron, Spezza. Hell, Briere could easily slot in on the 3rd line... (who's Russia's 3rd line center in a best case scenario for fun).

That second team would easily compete with any team in the WHC's, including Canada's first team. Those guys that are listed on the second team, or left out are some of the top players in the NHL...

As for Souray, the guy is a PP specialist, and a decent one at that. Deffinitely a guy I'd put in my bottom pairings, especially if I could pair him with Weber. But hey, you don't like him.... we still have Cam Barker, Seabrook, Morrisson, Ranger, D Keith, M Staal looking to be added to the roster for team 2.

I'm yet to see someone put up rosters for 2 teams from any other country. You should give it a shot for ***** and giggles.

Who's kidding who. Briere is a PPG 30+ goal scorer in the regular season, and again a PPG player in the playoffs. Then as other s have said, look at the players behind him at center including the ones listed below that weren't included. You don't like Briere there, slot in Savard, E Staal, M Richards, P Bergeron, Spezza. Hell, Briere could easily slot in on the 3rd line... (who's Russia's 3rd line center in a best case scenario for fun).

That second team would easily compete with any team in the WHC's, including Canada's first team. Those guys that are listed on the second team, or left out are some of the top players in the NHL...

As for Souray, the guy is a PP specialist, and a decent one at that. Deffinitely a guy I'd put in my bottom pairings, especially if I could pair him with Weber. But hey, you don't like him.... we still have Cam Barker, Seabrook, Morrisson, Ranger, D Keith, M Staal looking to be added to the roster for team 2.

I'm yet to see someone put up rosters for 2 teams from any other country. You should give it a shot for ***** and giggles.

Well Russia just won the WC's with over half the roster being from the RSL. Doesn't that mena anything?

A Russia team with only RSL players would contend for a medal imo, definatley.

Well Russia just won the WC's with over half the roster being from the RSL. Doesn't that mena anything?

It sure does. They played very well, but it wasn't the RSL players that got them past Canada. My question is, in a 5 or 7 game series who would win out? Yes Russia came back in dramatic fashion, but could they beat Canada consistently? I don't want to take anything away from Russia in that game, they won it no ifs ands or buts about it, but that doesn't mean I think they were the better of the two teams.

Russia was missing a couple of very good players, Canada was missing some of their best players.

The point that was being made is that Canada could easily dress 2 competitive teams. Your saying a Russian team strictly from the RSL would be competitive, let me ask you this... how well do you think Russia would have done without guys like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, Markov? Would they even medal?

It sure does. They played very well, but it wasn't the RSL players that got them past Canada. My question is, in a 5 or 7 game series who would win out? Yes Russia came back in dramatic fashion, but could they beat Canada consistently? I don't want to take anything away from Russia in that game, they won it no ifs ands or buts about it, but that doesn't mean I think they were the better of the two teams.

Russia was missing a couple of very good players, Canada was missing some of their best players.

The point that was being made is that Canada could easily dress 2 competitive teams. Your saying a Russian team strictly from the RSL would be competitive, let me ask you this... how well do you think Russia would have done without guys like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, Markov? Would they even medal?

No one really doubts that Canada has a good depth considering how big hockey is in that country and how many people play it. But international competitions only allow one team from each country. And I am confident that Russian best can compete with Canadian best. This year's Russian team was also lacking a lot of great players, such as our two best centres...

But even beyond that, there will be some good players who play in RSL and simply aren't that well known anywhere else.

SilverLine - Way to generalize, just because we don't dominate every major competition doesn't mean we aren't the best in terms of depth.

As I said above, everyone accepts that you have a lot of good players. But at the same time, Canadian supporters tend to justify their losses at international competition by stating that players X and Y were not there. Which kind of make me want to question whether the quality of the depth is that amazing. If the players beyond the first 22 are that great, why introducing a couple of them into a team must have such severe repecussions?

Even for this WCh some say that it would be different because Crosby was not there. But Russia also didn't have there best two centres and was full of RSL players. So either the quality of Canada's depth is overrated or the quality of Russian depth is underrated..

Team World:
Ovechkin-Malkin-Alfredson
Kovalchuk-Zetterberg-Datsyuk
Kovalev-Sundin-Gaborik
Stastny-M.Koivu-Lehtinen

Lidström-Chara
Gonchar-Kaberle
Markov-Timonen

Kipper/Lundqvist/Nabokov

Bring it on Canada!

Team World:
Ovechkin-Malkin-Alfredson
Kovalchuk-Zetterberg-Datsyuk
Kovalev-Sundin-Gaborik
Stastny-M.Koivu-Lehtinen

Lidström-Chara
Gonchar-Kaberle
Markov-Timonen

Kipper/Lundqvist/Nabokov

Bring it on Canada!

remove Stastny and Lehtinen! they are not good enouf to be on that team;) add Frolov and Radulov:)

The point that was being made is that Canada could easily dress 2 competitive teams. Your saying a Russian team strictly from the RSL would be competitive, let me ask you this... how well do you think Russia would have done without guys like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, Markov? Would they even medal?

In 2002 Russia sent a team made up almost exclusively from RSLers (everyone but Afinogenov, Kalinin, and Lyashenko).
It's the only time Russia has done this in recent years and guess what? That's right, they won Silver.....finishing 4 spots higher than the NHL laden Canadian team.

Just two years ago, Sweden won gold with a roster full of 20 SELers defeating Crosby and co. along the way.:teach:

In 2002 Russia sent a team made up almost exclusively from RSLers (everyone but Afinogenov, Kalinin, and Lyashenko).
It's the only time Russia has done this in recent years and guess what? That's right, they won Silver.....finishing 4 spots higher than the NHL laden Canadian team.

Just two years ago, Sweden won gold with a roster full of 20 SELers defeating Crosby and co. along the way.:teach:

main job at 2006 WC for sweden was made by Zetterberg,Samuellson,Nylander ,Frantzen and Kronwall! they all represent NHL.

Team World:
Ovechkin-Malkin-Alfredson
Kovalchuk-Zetterberg-Datsyuk
Kovalev-Sundin-Gaborik
Stastny-M.Koivu-Lehtinen

Lidström-Chara
Gonchar-Kaberle
Markov-Timonen

Kipper/Lundqvist/Nabokov

Bring it on Canada!

What about Hossa? : >

main job at 2006 WC for sweden was made by Zetterberg,Samuellson,Nylander ,Frantzen and Kronwall! they all represent NHL.

Did u even see the WC that year ? ;P Just cause they are the most famous name doesnt mean they did the best work. If i remember correct it was only Kronwall and Samuelsson of those players who actually stepped up their game in the playoffs. Think it was Jörgen Jönsson and Mika Hannula who was swedens best players in the playoffs.

What about Hossa? : >

Kovalev could be replaced by Hossa and Sundin by Jokinen/Drury... I gave the spot to Kovalev thanks to his superb regular season...

I
Russia was missing a couple of very good players, Canada was missing some of their best players.


OK, "a couple of very good players" then... :laugh:

OK, "a couple of very good players" then... :laugh:

Do you really want to compare?

Crosby
Thornton
Iginla
Lecalvier
Morrow
Gagne
B. Richards
M. Richards
Horton

Pronger
Neidermyer
Phaneuf
Smith

Turco
Brodeur
Luongo

Let's see the list from Russia. (Seriously, I'd love to see it, aside from Malkin, Gonchar and Zubov I'm not sure who they really missed).

This isn't an excuse, Russia won fairly, played well and I'm not at all ashamed to say the team Canada iced lost to them and rightly so. This is only to show that Canada in no way iced the best team possible. To criticize those saying Canada really didn't ice anywhere close to their best roster is to ignore the list of players who didn't play.

That's easily missing their top two lines, I'd say even 3, plus their top goaltenders and their three best defensemen.

When it comes to the elite countries I think its clear by now that anyone can beat anyone in a one games series. But when it comes to depth and throwing out 2nd and 3rd teams its Canada by a longshot.

Yeah, like it was the REAL Russia there with half of a team coming from RSL.

I mean, who cares bout missing Malkin and Datsyuk, just 2 top 5 centers in the world and Zubov/Gonchar, just 2 top 5 offensive defenders in the world. How bout Kovalev?

I bet, that a
Datsyuk-Malkin-Kovalev
Zubov-Gonchar
Bryzgalov

starting 6 would be as good as anything in the world.

Who else were they missing? And how is Bryzgalov relevant when Nabokov is the best option by far?

Canada was missing Lecavalier, Thornton, Iginla, Crosby, Phaneuf, Pronger, Niedermayer, Brad Richards, Mike Richards, as well as our best goalies in Brodeur, Luongo, Turco. Not even the same.

Are you serious? That second team would get destroyed by any of the top 7 teams. I mean having Souray on defense is bad enough, but when your top center is Brière...Good luck.

I think the teams he made are not what most people would have as their rosters.

If we're going 2010 which isn't that far off here are my top two teams

TEAM 1
Nash Crosby Iginla
Staal Lecavalier Heatley
Morrow M Richards Toews
Gagne Thornton Getzlaf

Pronger Bouwmeester
Phaneuf Regher
Green Weber

Luongo
Turco

TEAM 2
St. Louis Spezza Doan
Cammaleri Briere B. Richards
Smyth Bergeron Horton
Dumont Savard Arnott

Campbell Coburn
Jovanovski Burns
Boyle Hamhuis

Brodeur
Fleury

two awesome teams that could compete/beat anyone

Hell lets toss a third team together to see what we get:
TEAM 3
J. Carter Marleau Sharp
Tanguay Horcoff Roy
Chimera McClement Mayers (gold world championship shutdown line 2007)
Perry Ribeiro Brind' Amour


Smith McCabe
Staois W. Mitchell
Seabrook Allen

Ward
Leclaire


I could go on and on

these teams are all solid discuss

Yeah, like it was the REAL Russia there with half of a team coming from RSL.

I mean, who cares bout missing Malkin and Datsyuk, just 2 top 5 centers in the world and Zubov/Gonchar, just 2 top 5 offensive defenders in the world. How bout Kovalev?

I bet, that a
Datsyuk-Malkin-Kovalev
Zubov-Gonchar
Bryzgalov

starting 6 would be as good as anything in the world.

I had thought Russia didn't want Kovalev? And as stated above, Bryz isn't better then what they had.

I could go on and on

these teams are all solid discuss

Many nations could fields three competitive teams, Sweden basically played with what could be described as our C team.

Canada is the best hockey nation, but it's NOT that good.

The all-World team would be absolutely LOADED.

yeah, for sure. I can't see Canada winning this, but it would be one hell of a show.

Many nations could fields three competitive teams, Sweden basically played with what could be described as our C team.

Likely B, no?

This is still going on? I missed out on alot of fun.
Let me sum it up.
Canada could send in 2-3 teams and still be competive, can any other country in the world do that? No.
A Canada vs. World Series would be the stupidest idea/comparison ever. You're comparing a small fraction of hockey players to the rest of the world? With that being said let's SAY 8 game series, 4 in Canada, 4 in Europe/USA. Well I would bet that Canada would probably win atleast 3 or 4 of those games. If players aren't enough what about Coaching? Ya know, it's not always the best team that wins, coaches play a huge factor. Run and gun style or Positional shut down trap.
I mean, if we're even discussing this it clearly means Canada would be #1 country.
What about a Sweden vs. World? or RUSSIA vs. World? and so on. There would be hardly any discussion about those.

Whether or not Canada can field multiple teams is irrelevant. Everyone had people missing, and we did too. The difference between the players we had, and who we could have isn't that dramatic, we can still only play 23 players.

We just have to lick our wounds, suck it up, and kick some ass at the 2010 Olympics :yo:

It sure does. They played very well, but it wasn't the RSL players that got them past Canada. My question is, in a 5 or 7 game series who would win out? Yes Russia came back in dramatic fashion, but could they beat Canada consistently? I don't want to take anything away from Russia in that game, they won it no ifs ands or buts about it, but that doesn't mean I think they were the better of the two teams.


Oh C'mon.:shakehead
It was obvious for anybody who saw that game that Russia was the better team and would have won a 7 game series.

Canada just couldn't keep up with Russia's speed and puck possession as the game progressed; in addition, Canada was unable to intimidate them physically.
Plus, Russia was able to successfully neutralize the Heatley/Getzlaf/Nash line.....especially along the boards. Russia started taking control of the game even before Canada started 'sitting back' in the 3rd.

Regardless, with those 2 teams in front of them, there's no way Ward/LeClair out plays Nabokov in a 7 game series.

IMO, the big advantage Canada has in these types of "exercises" is goaltending, where only the Finns can realistically compete at this point. Other than that, there are several countries that could ice two competitive groups of forwards and d-men.

IMO, the big advantage Canada has in these types of "exercises" is goaltending, where only the Finns can realistically compete at this point. Other than that, there are several countries that could ice two competitive groups of forwards and d-men.

The problem with Canada's current depth is not enough elite level natural wingers, not enough elite level d-men and too many elite goalies and centers. If you end up wanting to ice your most talented lineup, you end up having too many centers playing the wings and it kills potential chemistry.

The problem with Canada's current depth is not enough elite level natural wingers, not enough elite level d-men and too many elite goalies and centers. If you end up wanting to ice your most talented lineup, you end up having too many centers playing the wings and it kills potential chemistry.

Iginla, St Louis, Nash, Heater, Doan, Smyth all beg to differ.

Pronger, Neidermyer, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Cambell and Weber on the backend laugh at your "not enough elite level dmen comment" as well.

For once I wish someone making these outlandish comments would do a side-by-side comparison to show how their country of choice stacks up.

We are yet to see a 2 team roster for any other country other then Canada. We are yet to see the comparison of players missing from the last WC's (for all of those that say Russia, Sweden, and Finland were impacted just as much as Canada on missing players).

Likely B, no?

I would say in between B and C.

Oh C'mon.:shakehead
It was obvious for anybody who saw that game that Russia was the better team and would have won a 7 game series.

Canada just couldn't keep up with Russia's speed and puck possession as the game progressed; in addition, Canada was unable to intimidate them physically.
Plus, Russia was able to successfully neutralize the Heatley/Getzlaf/Nash line.....especially along the boards. Russia started taking control of the game even before Canada started 'sitting back' in the 3rd.

Regardless, with those 2 teams in front of them, there's no way Ward/LeClair out plays Nabokov in a 7 game series.

Not at all Canada was clearly in control through 2 periods, yes the russians fought back but at that point it was our game to lose.
In 7 game series I think we would have taken it. 3-2

Not at all Canada was clearly in control through 2 periods, yes the russians fought back but at that point it was our game to lose.
In 7 game series I think we would have taken it. 3-2
:shakehead
That would be a 5 game series. In 7 game series the winner wins 4 games

Iginla, St Louis, Nash, Heater, Doan, Smyth all beg to differ.

Now do a list of Canada's best centers, and then see if you still beg to differ. Outside of Iginla, St Louis and Heatley, none of those guys is a top 13 forward for Canada. You need 8 wingers and just 4 centers on a team. The problem is, most of Canada's best forwards are centers. Thornton, Lecavalier, Crosby, Sakic, Spezza, Staal, B.Richards, M.Richards, Briere, and Savard are all better players than Nash, Doan and Smyth. The biggest problem with Canada is that it's best talent is too contentrated in one position. You end up either having to use less talented players on the wings, or player the more talented players out of position, which given the short prep time, hurts potential chemistry.

Yes Canada has the best talent up front, but it's not distributed in the best manner.

Pronger, Neidermyer, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Cambell and Weber on the backend laugh at your "not enough elite level dmen comment" as well.

Only 3 Norris trophies amongst that group, and only 3 have ever been nominated for the thing.

Not at all Canada was clearly in control through 2 periods, yes the russians fought back but at that point it was our game to lose.
In 7 game series I think we would have taken it. 3-2

Canada was ahead after 2, but Russia took control early in the second including outshooting Canada that period despite not having 1 single PP. It was basically only a matter of time.

Again, with those 2 teams in front of them, there's no way Ward/LeClair out plays Nabokov in a 7 game series.

4-2 Russia

Now do a list of Canada's best centers, and then see if you still beg to differ. Outside of Iginla, St Louis and Heatley, none of those guys is a top 13 forward for Canada. You need 8 wingers and just 4 centers on a team. The problem is, most of Canada's best forwards are centers. Thornton, Lecavalier, Crosby, Sakic, Spezza, Staal, B.Richards, M.Richards, Briere, and Savard are all better players than Nash, Doan and Smyth. The biggest problem with Canada is that it's best talent is too contentrated in one position. You end up either having to use less talented players on the wings, or player the more talented players out of position, which given the short prep time, hurts potential chemistry.

Yes Canada has the best talent up front, but it's not distributed in the best manner.

Canada does have far more depth at center then any other position... but as many people say it's easier to move centers to the Wings then it is to move Wings to Center.

And you don't consider Nash an elite player? You should take some time and watch some hockey some day. The guys 23, has 3 thirty goal seasons already and has a Norris to his name.

Again, I'd love to see 2 rosters for Russia... still.... no.... didn't think so. How about matching up the players that were left off both rosters for this last WC? Guess not.

Only 3 Norris trophies amongst that group, and only 3 have ever been nominated for the thing.

:shakehead

I'm going to assume your joking. Yes three Norris trophies in that group... of course since Campbell, Weber, Bouwmeester and Phaneuf entered the league only two people have ever won the Norris (Lidstrom and Neids).

Basically, what does how many Norris trophies in a group of defensemen have to do with being elite? If you are saying you need to win a Norris to be elite, then Russia doesn't have an elite defenseman, nor have they ever had one. This would also mean there are only three elite defensemen active in the world (the other being Rob Blake).

Canada was ahead after 2, but Russia took control early in the second including outshooting Canada that period despite not having 1 single PP. It was basically only a matter of time.

Again, with those 2 teams in front of them, there's no way Ward/LeClair out plays Nabokov in a 7 game series.

4-2 Russia

Agree to disagree, I have seen Nabokov in a 7 game series and Ward as well. Credit to both as they are great goalies.

Here's my top two U.S. squads:

Team (A):

Goaltenders:

DiPietro
Miller
Thomas

Defense:

Rafalski/Komisarek
Martin/Leopold
Suter/Schneider
Ballard

Forwards:

Parise-Gomez-Stastny
Pominville-Kane-Brown
Rolston-Mueller-Drury
Higgins-Legwand-Cole
Kessel

Team (B):

Goaltenders:

Esche
Boucher
Anderson

Defensemen:

Whitney/Orpik
Gleason/Liles
E. Johnson/Gilbert
J. Johnson

Forwards:

Gionta-Connolly-O'Sullivan
Pavelski-Umberger-Knuble
Malone-Cullen-Langenbrunner
Stafford-Halpern-Booth
Dustin Byfuglien

I think both could compete. Not necessarily for a medal (at least Team "B"), but there would be enough talent to put up a good fight.

The game went to overtime fella's, anyone arguing a 7-game series wouldn't be close for either team is simply falling prey to bias.

Personally, I think a 7-game series Canada would win 4-3, but I'm a homer :razz:

Here's my top two U.S. squads:

Team (A):

Goaltenders:

DiPietro
Miller
Thomas

Defense:

Rafalski/Komisarek
Martin/Leopold
Suter/Schneider
Ballard

Forwards:

Parise-Gomez-Stastny
Pominville-Kane-Brown
Rolston-Mueller-Drury
Higgins-Legwand-Cole
Kessel

Team (B):

Goaltenders:

Esche
Boucher
Anderson

Defensemen:

Whitney/Orpik
Gleason/Liles
E. Johnson/Gilbert
J. Johnson

Forwards:

Gionta-Connolly-O'Sullivan
Pavelski-Umberger-Knuble
Malone-Cullen-Langenbrunner
Stafford-Halpern-Booth
Dustin Byfuglien

I think both could compete. Not necessarily for a medal (at least Team "B"), but there would be enough talent to put up a good fight.

I would imagine if the US was making a B team they would make Miller the starter on said B team rather than a backup on said A team.

I had thought Russia didn't want Kovalev? And as stated above, Bryz isn't better then what they had.

I doubt it, Kovalev is usually the captain of team Russia.

I doubt it, Kovalev is usually the captain of team Russia.

Kovalev said Team Russia didn't want him because he was "too slow"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/hockey/nhl/wires/05/05/2040.ap.hkn.canadiens.wrapup.0834/

Notes: Canadiens D Andrei Markov has decided to join the Russian team at the world championships being held in Halifax and Quebec City. Kovalev said he was not invited and that he had received text messages indicating that he was too slow for the national team. "If you don't want to use players, I mean, don't say those kind of things, like I'm not fast enough or whatever,'' Kovalev said. "I'm not saying it's insulting but it's kind of crazy hearing that from your own country.''

Kovalev said Team Russia didn't want him because he was "too slow"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/hockey/nhl/wires/05/05/2040.ap.hkn.canadiens.wrapup.0834/

That was false information spread by RDS and everybody went along with it.....not suprising given they were also responsible for 'Kovalev-gate' last year.
Kovalev says so himself.
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/290658

Russia simply did not have any more roster spots available at forward. Kovalev was actually in Quebec and congradulated the team after the victory.

I would imagine if the US was making a B team they would make Miller the starter on said B team rather than a backup on said A team.

I think the premise is all your best players go on team 1, else Canada should have Luongo starting on one team and Brodeur or Turco starting on the other. If this wasn't the premise I call a redo on my Team 1 and 2 lines.

If we spread out the talent and just create the most competitive teams, Canada could easily make 3 that would be as good or better then what they iced this WC.

That was false information spread by RDS and everybody went along with it.....not suprising given they were also responsible for 'Kovalev-gate' last year.
Kovalev says so himself.
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/290658

Russia simply did not have any more roster spots available at forward. Kovalev was actually in Quebec and congradulated the team after the victory.

It was an actual Kovalev quote, I saw the interview with my own eyes.

It was an actual Kovalev quote, I saw the interview with my own eyes.

Right, but that was before all the mis-communication was cleared up....and, not suprisingly, the media blew it out of proportion without ever bothering to follow up on it. No text message was ever sent from Russian officials.

Again, as Bykov repetedly stated, Kovalev was never invited because there was simply no more room at forward; not because of some ridiculous notion that he was 'too slow'.

I would say in between B and C.

How can it be a C team if it had over 1/2 of the A team? In my understanding

A Team=one set of names
B Team=a totally different set of names
C Team=another totally different set of names

IMHO, there is a three-four way tie at the top level right now, meaning that three-four national teams can beat each other in a 7-game series, so the name of the thread is rather pointless.

Did u even see the WC that year ? ;P Just cause they are the most famous name doesnt mean they did the best work. If i remember correct it was only Kronwall and Samuelsson of those players who actually stepped up their game in the playoffs. Think it was Jörgen Jönsson and Mika Hannula who was swedens best players in the playoffs.

Kronwall at 4 place with 10 points. Samuelsson at 8 place with 9 points and Nylander at 13 with 9 points as well. no hannula no Jonsson among the best 25 by stats. wasnt that good work by NHL players?:sarcasm:

Do you really want to compare?

Crosby
Thornton
Iginla
Lecalvier
Morrow
Gagne
B. Richards
M. Richards
Horton

Pronger
Neidermyer
Phaneuf
Smith

Turco
Brodeur
Luongo

Let's see the list from Russia. (Seriously, I'd love to see it, aside from Malkin, Gonchar and Zubov I'm not sure who they really missed).

This isn't an excuse, Russia won fairly, played well and I'm not at all ashamed to say the team Canada iced lost to them and rightly so. This is only to show that Canada in no way iced the best team possible. To criticize those saying Canada really didn't ice anywhere close to their best roster is to ignore the list of players who didn't play.

That's easily missing their top two lines, I'd say even 3, plus their top goaltenders and their three best defensemen.

Malkin,Datsyuk,Gontsar,Zubov,Habibullin,Brysgalov, Zherdev,Frolov,Voltsenkov isnt that enouf!?:shakehead

I had thought Russia didn't want Kovalev? And as stated above, Bryz isn't better then what they had.

are you sure that canada manager realy need all those players what did you mention before in canadian team ?:sarcasm:

Many nations could fields three competitive teams, Sweden basically played with what could be described as our C team.

with 7-8 players who belongs to team A on board you call that team C :sarcasm: